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18 poison stacks engi?

Zinzon.4081Zinzon.4081 Member ✭✭

Lately i'm getting hit by sudden 18 stacks of poison by engi... I mean the usal 9 is already too much for 1 skill but now with 18 in one skill it's getting ridiculous. At this point I cannot dodge every grenade they throw...

Comments

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2020

    Thief Profession and Ranger Profession are the only Professions designed to access high output of Poison conditions. How does any other Profession have access to put output high poison condition damage?

    -18 stack is indeed excessive and out of place -

    'Situations that are present are there because you allow and tolerate them to continue'

  • @Burnfall.9573 said:
    Thief Profession and Ranger Profession are the only Professions designed to access high output of Poison conditions. How does any other Profession have access to put output high poison condition damage?

    -18 stack is indeed excessive and out of place -

    It's with only the poison grenade throw too. It's definitely out of place and a design concern... And last long enough to be concerned. It's 18 stack 1 sec. It's 18 stack for like 5 sec it's just soooo oppresive! With all other nade performing similarly its just skilless and too effective to spam nades.

  • @Kuma.1503 said:
    For all tests, highest number of poison stacks is recorded even if it only appears for a split second.

    Poison Grenade (No doom sigil) - 9 stacks

    All tests below done with Scavenging Rune and Venom + Doom sigils. Also running thermal vision for +60 expertise

    Poison Grenade (Doom sigil) - 10 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Opponent standing on Poison Gas Shell = 14 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Opponent Standing on Poison Gas Shell and Chemical Field = 18 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley = 15 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley + Fumigate = 20 stacks


    And just for fun

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley + Fumigate + Opponent standing on 2 poison fields = 27 stacks of poison


    Verdict: Maybe do not afk in the green circles if you do not want 18 stacks of poison on you.

    Verdict: 9 poison 1 skill throw + field ticking maybe overtune...

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2020

    @Zinzon.4081 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    For all tests, highest number of poison stacks is recorded even if it only appears for a split second.

    Poison Grenade (No doom sigil) - 9 stacks

    All tests below done with Scavenging Rune and Venom + Doom sigils. Also running thermal vision for +60 expertise

    Poison Grenade (Doom sigil) - 10 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Opponent standing on Poison Gas Shell = 14 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Opponent Standing on Poison Gas Shell and Chemical Field = 18 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley = 15 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley + Fumigate = 20 stacks


    And just for fun

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley + Fumigate + Opponent standing on 2 poison fields = 27 stacks of poison


    Verdict: Maybe do not afk in the green circles if you do not want 18 stacks of poison on you.

    Verdict: 9 poison 1 skill throw + field ticking maybe overtune...

    You stated 18 stacks not 9

    Even then, It's 18 stacks of poison that takes roughly ~5 seconds to kill with no cleanse, and that's on a condi build designed to gain maximum value out of poison. All of this assuming the victim of the poison bomb goes afk in 2 AoEs and gets hit by every grenade.

    Simply utilizing WASD keys should be sufficient to prevent death from happening. Worst case scenario, mistakes are made. 5 seconds is plenty of time to react and cleanse the condi burst.

    In this hypothetical scenario, the player misplayed in 3 different ways and died to an off meta build. Seems like a reasonable outcome.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    For all tests, highest number of poison stacks is recorded even if it only appears for a split second.

    Poison Grenade (No doom sigil) - 9 stacks

    All tests below done with Scavenging Rune and Venom + Doom sigils. Also running thermal vision for +60 expertise

    Poison Grenade (Doom sigil) - 10 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Opponent standing on Poison Gas Shell = 14 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Opponent Standing on Poison Gas Shell and Chemical Field = 18 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley = 15 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley + Fumigate = 20 stacks


    And just for fun

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley + Fumigate + Opponent standing on 2 poison fields = 27 stacks of poison


    Verdict: Maybe do not afk in the green circles if you do not want 18 stacks of poison on you.

    Also projectiles through poison fields.

    The poison stack output could be very high here actually.

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  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 20, 2020

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    For all tests, highest number of poison stacks is recorded even if it only appears for a split second.

    Poison Grenade (No doom sigil) - 9 stacks

    All tests below done with Scavenging Rune and Venom + Doom sigils. Also running thermal vision for +60 expertise

    Poison Grenade (Doom sigil) - 10 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Opponent standing on Poison Gas Shell = 14 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Opponent Standing on Poison Gas Shell and Chemical Field = 18 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley = 15 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley + Fumigate = 20 stacks


    And just for fun

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley + Fumigate + Opponent standing on 2 poison fields = 27 stacks of poison


    Verdict: Maybe do not afk in the green circles if you do not want 18 stacks of poison on you.

    Also projectiles through poison fields.

    The poison stack output could be very high here actually.

    I thought so too. I was trying to figure out how grenades managed to deal an extra 9 poison stacks and I thought "Maybe if the grenades are projectile finishers and the engi is running doom sigil"? Only to realize that grenades don't have finishers attatched.

    It could happen with poison dart volley. It's only a 20% chance, but if fortune strikes plus the mortar, that's an extra 4-5 poison stacks.

    Poison Dart Volley doesn't even have a finisher attatched. Odd.

    Come to mention it, if Anet were to buff mainhand pistol for engi, giving Poison dart Volley a finisher would be a nice buff. I wouldn't mind seeing more field play encouraged on Engi.

  • @Kuma.1503 said:

    @Zinzon.4081 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    For all tests, highest number of poison stacks is recorded even if it only appears for a split second.

    Poison Grenade (No doom sigil) - 9 stacks

    All tests below done with Scavenging Rune and Venom + Doom sigils. Also running thermal vision for +60 expertise

    Poison Grenade (Doom sigil) - 10 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Opponent standing on Poison Gas Shell = 14 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Opponent Standing on Poison Gas Shell and Chemical Field = 18 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley = 15 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley + Fumigate = 20 stacks


    And just for fun

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley + Fumigate + Opponent standing on 2 poison fields = 27 stacks of poison


    Verdict: Maybe do not afk in the green circles if you do not want 18 stacks of poison on you.

    Verdict: 9 poison 1 skill throw + field ticking maybe overtune...

    You stated 18 stacks not 9

    Even then, It's 18 stacks of poison that takes roughly ~5 seconds to kill with no cleanse, and that's on a condi build designed to gain maximum value out of poison. All of this assuming the victim of the poison bomb goes afk in 2 AoEs and gets hit by every grenade.

    Simply utilizing WASD keys should be sufficient to prevent death from happening. Worst case scenario, mistakes are made. 5 seconds is plenty of time to react and cleanse the condi burst.

    In this hypothetical scenario, the player misplayed in 3 different ways and died to an off meta build. Seems like a reasonable outcome.

    18 from 1 skill only btw 9 stacks from 1 attack. Not balanced at all. The only thing that can stack up to that level (9 stacks) is like snake trap if you stand in it. And grenade toss at your feet is instant you cannot avoid 9 immediate stacks.

    Btw plz stop defending this design you look so biased... Like it was healthy for a game to have this much reward this low skills.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zinzon.4081 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @Zinzon.4081 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    For all tests, highest number of poison stacks is recorded even if it only appears for a split second.

    Poison Grenade (No doom sigil) - 9 stacks

    All tests below done with Scavenging Rune and Venom + Doom sigils. Also running thermal vision for +60 expertise

    Poison Grenade (Doom sigil) - 10 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Opponent standing on Poison Gas Shell = 14 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Opponent Standing on Poison Gas Shell and Chemical Field = 18 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley = 15 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley + Fumigate = 20 stacks


    And just for fun

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley + Fumigate + Opponent standing on 2 poison fields = 27 stacks of poison


    Verdict: Maybe do not afk in the green circles if you do not want 18 stacks of poison on you.

    Verdict: 9 poison 1 skill throw + field ticking maybe overtune...

    You stated 18 stacks not 9

    Even then, It's 18 stacks of poison that takes roughly ~5 seconds to kill with no cleanse, and that's on a condi build designed to gain maximum value out of poison. All of this assuming the victim of the poison bomb goes afk in 2 AoEs and gets hit by every grenade.

    Simply utilizing WASD keys should be sufficient to prevent death from happening. Worst case scenario, mistakes are made. 5 seconds is plenty of time to react and cleanse the condi burst.

    In this hypothetical scenario, the player misplayed in 3 different ways and died to an off meta build. Seems like a reasonable outcome.

    18 from 1 skill only btw 9 stacks from 1 attack. Not balanced at all. The only thing that can stack up to that level (9 stacks) is like snake trap if you stand in it. And grenade toss at your feet is instant you cannot avoid 9 immediate stacks.

    Btw plz stop defending this design you look so biased... Like it was healthy for a game to have this much reward this low skills.

    Let me try to understand you better.

    You're saying "18 stacks from 1 skill" Are you implying that the engi hit you with 2 poison nades? (9 x 2 = 18). If so the scenario you laid out is impossible. 10.25 seconds of poison with 34% poison duration on a 25 second cooldown.

    I made my post in attempt to figure out what the engineer did to you to get 18 stacks of poison on you. Asuming he didn't have help from another player, He would have either had to land several skills on you (one of which involves running an underperforming weapon in the mainhand) or you stood in 2 poison fields and ate the poison nade.

    Lets start there. What exactly did the engineer do to you that resulted in 18 poison stacks?

  • @Kuma.1503 said:
    For all tests, highest number of poison stacks is recorded even if it only appears for a split second.

    Poison Grenade (No doom sigil) - 9 stacks

    All tests below done with Scavenging Rune and Venom + Doom sigils. Also running thermal vision for +60 expertise

    Poison Grenade (Doom sigil) - 10 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Opponent standing on Poison Gas Shell = 14 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Opponent Standing on Poison Gas Shell and Chemical Field = 18 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley = 15 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley + Fumigate = 20 stacks


    And just for fun

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley + Fumigate + Opponent standing on 2 poison fields = 27 stacks of poison


    Verdict: Maybe do not afk in the green circles if you do not want 18 stacks of poison on you.

    verdict : delete condition meta. Game supposed to be skill based, not trash condi based like 50k burning in 5 sec and others

  • @Kuma.1503 said:

    @Zinzon.4081 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @Zinzon.4081 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    For all tests, highest number of poison stacks is recorded even if it only appears for a split second.

    Poison Grenade (No doom sigil) - 9 stacks

    All tests below done with Scavenging Rune and Venom + Doom sigils. Also running thermal vision for +60 expertise

    Poison Grenade (Doom sigil) - 10 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Opponent standing on Poison Gas Shell = 14 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Opponent Standing on Poison Gas Shell and Chemical Field = 18 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley = 15 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley + Fumigate = 20 stacks


    And just for fun

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley + Fumigate + Opponent standing on 2 poison fields = 27 stacks of poison


    Verdict: Maybe do not afk in the green circles if you do not want 18 stacks of poison on you.

    Verdict: 9 poison 1 skill throw + field ticking maybe overtune...

    You stated 18 stacks not 9

    Even then, It's 18 stacks of poison that takes roughly ~5 seconds to kill with no cleanse, and that's on a condi build designed to gain maximum value out of poison. All of this assuming the victim of the poison bomb goes afk in 2 AoEs and gets hit by every grenade.

    Simply utilizing WASD keys should be sufficient to prevent death from happening. Worst case scenario, mistakes are made. 5 seconds is plenty of time to react and cleanse the condi burst.

    In this hypothetical scenario, the player misplayed in 3 different ways and died to an off meta build. Seems like a reasonable outcome.

    18 from 1 skill only btw 9 stacks from 1 attack. Not balanced at all. The only thing that can stack up to that level (9 stacks) is like snake trap if you stand in it. And grenade toss at your feet is instant you cannot avoid 9 immediate stacks.

    Btw plz stop defending this design you look so biased... Like it was healthy for a game to have this much reward this low skills.

    Let me try to understand you better.

    You're saying "18 stacks from 1 skill" Are you implying that the engi hit you with 2 poison nades? (9 x 2 = 18). If so the scenario you laid out is impossible. 10.25 seconds of poison with 34% poison duration on a 25 second cooldown.

    I made my post in attempt to figure out what the engineer did to you to get 18 stacks of poison on you. Asuming he didn't have help from another player, He would have either had to land several skills on you (one of which involves running an underperforming weapon in the mainhand) or you stood in 2 poison fields and ate the poison nade.

    Lets start there. What exactly did the engineer do to you that resulted in 18 poison stacks?

    Thats the beauty if it! I don't know! I got hit by poison grenade point blank and might stayed 1sec max in it! He was not using pistol main hand too!

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zinzon.4081 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @Zinzon.4081 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    @Zinzon.4081 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:
    For all tests, highest number of poison stacks is recorded even if it only appears for a split second.

    Poison Grenade (No doom sigil) - 9 stacks

    All tests below done with Scavenging Rune and Venom + Doom sigils. Also running thermal vision for +60 expertise

    Poison Grenade (Doom sigil) - 10 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Opponent standing on Poison Gas Shell = 14 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Opponent Standing on Poison Gas Shell and Chemical Field = 18 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley = 15 stacks

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley + Fumigate = 20 stacks


    And just for fun

    Poison Grenade + Poison Dart Volley + Fumigate + Opponent standing on 2 poison fields = 27 stacks of poison


    Verdict: Maybe do not afk in the green circles if you do not want 18 stacks of poison on you.

    Verdict: 9 poison 1 skill throw + field ticking maybe overtune...

    You stated 18 stacks not 9

    Even then, It's 18 stacks of poison that takes roughly ~5 seconds to kill with no cleanse, and that's on a condi build designed to gain maximum value out of poison. All of this assuming the victim of the poison bomb goes afk in 2 AoEs and gets hit by every grenade.

    Simply utilizing WASD keys should be sufficient to prevent death from happening. Worst case scenario, mistakes are made. 5 seconds is plenty of time to react and cleanse the condi burst.

    In this hypothetical scenario, the player misplayed in 3 different ways and died to an off meta build. Seems like a reasonable outcome.

    18 from 1 skill only btw 9 stacks from 1 attack. Not balanced at all. The only thing that can stack up to that level (9 stacks) is like snake trap if you stand in it. And grenade toss at your feet is instant you cannot avoid 9 immediate stacks.

    Btw plz stop defending this design you look so biased... Like it was healthy for a game to have this much reward this low skills.

    Let me try to understand you better.

    You're saying "18 stacks from 1 skill" Are you implying that the engi hit you with 2 poison nades? (9 x 2 = 18). If so the scenario you laid out is impossible. 10.25 seconds of poison with 34% poison duration on a 25 second cooldown.

    I made my post in attempt to figure out what the engineer did to you to get 18 stacks of poison on you. Asuming he didn't have help from another player, He would have either had to land several skills on you (one of which involves running an underperforming weapon in the mainhand) or you stood in 2 poison fields and ate the poison nade.

    Lets start there. What exactly did the engineer do to you that resulted in 18 poison stacks?

    Thats the beauty if it! I don't know! I got hit by poison grenade point blank and might stayed 1sec max in it! He was not using pistol main hand too!

    Was this in a 1v1 or in a teamfight?

    Asuming it was a 1v1, poison nade on its own can only do as much as 10 stacks if running doom sigil. Asuming you were sitting on a mortar shell, that would only go as high as 14. A mortar shell and a chemical field would reach 18 stacks easily... but unless they're playing condi scrapper (not a build you see often if at all) the damage taken will be negligable. I'd argue the scrapper is misplaying by unloading all of their poison at once instead of spreading it out in order to limit incoming healing.

    Mortar Kit varients of Holo sometimes run Elixir gun, so it could've been poison gas shell, fumigate, and poison grenade that did it, but then you would've noticed the green spray. Fumigate isn't exactly an easy animation to miss...

    Unless I'm missing something obvious here, I can only conclude either you're remembering the situation incorrectly or the engineer had help.

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You know, you can always add that cleanse skill on your skill bar. Just saying.

  • @ollbirtan.2915 said:
    You know, you can always add that cleanse skill on your skill bar. Just saying.

    Thats cleanse cripple or vuln? Yeah thanks for the suggestion! You bring alot to the conversation! Smh

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You know, you could also time your cleanses, yeah? If you take 1 on your skill bar, you can take another 1 or 2 on your weapons, and that's a whopping THREE cleanses! You look at what condis you have, and cleanse accordingly. ----> Profit.
    P.S. No need to thank me. Enjoy.

  • The Fear.3865The Fear.3865 Member ✭✭
    edited November 22, 2020

    Fun fact, the engi probably runnin zerk build