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[POSSIBLE SPOILERS] My Thoughts On The Direction Of The Gw2 Story

Stephen.6312Stephen.6312 Member ✭✭✭
edited November 21, 2020 in Lore

Hi everyone,
I've been thinking about the direction in which the GW2 story is heading and I wanted to share my thoughts with readers, for better or for worse.

As you may know, I've long theorized that the event referred to by Northern Tryian human historians as "the Exodus" was a spell, cast by Lyssa. In my opinion, given the events of Chaos Theory, the spell displaced those whom it affected, from the region of the Crystal Desert, north-west, forming the region that the Apostate's map calls "Thyria". I think that this region is that to which the Guild Wars Prophecies Manuscripts refer, geographically defined as "[t]he Tarnished Coast in the west to the Bay of Sirens (now called the Sea of Sorrows) in the south....the far eastern reaches of the Crystal Desert to the Giants’ Basin on the northern coast of Kryta".

It is my belief that the Elder Dragons are attempting to counter Lyssa's spell. In my opinion, Lyssa is a spirit of time, dwelling within the the sphere of influence over which Kralkatorrik held sway (time). Although I can't yet construct robust reasoning for my conviction, I nonetheless feel that Glint's legacy, which affects time, has a pivotal part to play in this process.

Now onto the wild speculation. I believe that Lyssa cast her spell during the Great Battle of the Gates of Heaven. The conflict between the gods was so traumatic that it threatened to destroy the entire planet. So Lyssa cast her spell to try and buy everyone more time to resolve their differences. (These differences manifest as many things. But the most immediate form they take is tormented magic). But this came at great personal cost. Either due to the casting of the spell, or possibly an injury inflicted by a fellow god, Lyssa was injured. As she lay dying, then, the spell was cast.

Lyssa poured what was left of herself, her lifeforce, into the Exodus spell, essentially becoming a part of the new reality in which Northern Tyrians live. This manifests in a number of ways, all of which involve chronological aberrations. For example, no one can find origin stories of Lyssa.. Northern Tyrian history "resets". Northern Tyrians' timekeeping practices are unusual; they rely on the Mouvelian Calendar (all of the Guild Wars books reference the calendar), a human way of marking the passage of time, even though their are at least four other races capable of producing timekeeping records of some kind. Furthermore, timekeeping practices among Tyrian humans differ wildly. Dynastic Reckoning was developed by Elonian human scholars; the Canthan Calendar is used by Canthan human scholars. Although it is possible that the Mouvelian Calendar looks to Tyria's sun as the most accurate timekeeper, this may not be the case. It suggests that, however time is passing within the reality that we know of as "Thyria", it isn't determined by something that other isolated populations - Elonians and Canthans being just two examples of these - find compelling enough to look to for their own chronological reckoning.

Anyhow, I believe that part of the dragons' work is to recover Lyssa's form. I believe that, although the goddess's essence forms the fabric of Northern Tyrian reality, she can still be discerned. Hence, in Path of Fire, Kormir refers to Lyssa as though the latter is still whole. However, the goddess's lifeforce is scattered throughout Thyria and the only way to save her is to reconcile the pieces of her by purging the magical elements, upon which she drew when she cast the Exodus spell, of their tormented magic. Presently, the Elder Dragons are closer than ever to doing this and Jormag, as their leader, is prepared to use any and every means necessary to see the dragons' work of countering Lyssa's spell completed. Thus, all of the Elders are working together, some even sacrificing themselves (Primordus), to help Jormag save Lyssa from complete annihilation.

I believe that Balthazar's "Plan B" was to be absorbed by the Elder Dragons in order to use their powers to help him trace Lyssa's form. As I see it, Balthazar didn't curse Lyssa out of respect for the memory of her selfless sacrifice.

This brings me to my thoughts on the Fractals of the Mists. I theorize that the Fractals may be the memories of one of the human gods, or perhaps all of the human gods, that collectively form a chronological ley-line (i.e. a timeline) of Lyssa's essence. Sunqua Peak may be an "encrypted" memory that reveals the true target of the Fractals: Lyssa. This Fractal coincides with the current state of Thyria, indicating to us how close the Elder Dragons are to restoring Lyssa to her family. Hence, the cries, "I can't bring her back!" and "I couldn't save her!" are ultimately uttered by Dwayna, referring to the loss of Lyssa at the Great Battle. I think that Dwayna and Abaddon were Lyssa's parents.

I'm not sure why Jormag and the Deep Sea Dragon are squaring off, but it's possible that the traumatized magics of the terrestrial and aquatic biospheres, both of which were present at the Great Battle at the Gates of Heaven, have been unwilling to resolve their differences because the process is too painful for them. Hence, the Elder Dragons are positioning these tormented magics into an unavoidable situation in which they must face each other and finally put away their long-standing grudges. Only then will it be possible for the Elders to restore Lyssa's form, reverse the Exodus spell, and return the Crystal Desert to it's former glory.

Your thoughts?

Want to delve into some theories about the lore and story of GW2? Check these posts out: The Search For Answers P1 and The Search For Answers P2.

Comments

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    Very cool theories, but if you actually consider the story that is being delivered ingame, it always stays on the surface of the lore and keeps things pretty obvious and straightforward. Plot twists are usually explained right away, conflicts concluded within a few chapters mostly, motivations spelled out for us right from the start.
    So while it might be possible to form a cool fantasy plot like your ideas from the game's lore, I think it's highly unlikely we ever get something like that.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2020

    Whilst I’m sure this is fun fan faction, the basis for existence in actual GW2 lore is zero. Nothing connects it to the game or the franchise or any of its lore. It’s just made up stuff with nothing to ground it

    For starters the Dragons long predate the Gods abs have shown no connection or interest to them let alone working to fix something to do with Lyssa. There is no connection between the Gods and Dragons. The Gods came From elsewhere to seek a new home and eventually left. All whilst the Dragons slumbered. The Dragons only knowledge of the Gods will come from those they corrupted

    There's nothing to even suggest Balthazar had a plan B to be absorbed by the DRagons to find Lyssa. I mean what?

    There’s nothing to connect the theory that the fractals are memories if the Gods. I mean that’s a baffling theory come out of nowhere

    There nothing that says Jormag is their leader. In fact if there was even a speck of truth we would have seen something of it by now

    I think when theorycrafting, it is always more prudent to use the lore the game actually provides rather than change the lore entirely to make new facts which don’t really tie up. For your theories to work, the game would need to be retold from scratch. As the above poster says, this isn’t a terribly deep story

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @Randulf.7614 said:
    Whilst I’m sure this is fun fan faction, the basis for existence in actual GW2 lore is zero. Nothing connects it to the game or the franchise or any of its lore. It’s just made up stuff with nothing to ground it

    For starters the Dragons long predate the Gods abs have shown no connection or interest to them let alone working to fix something to do with Lyssa. There is no connection between the Gods and Dragons. The Gods came From elsewhere to seek a new home and eventually left. All whilst the Dragons slumbered. The Dragons only knowledge of the Gods will come from those they corrupted

    There’s nothing to connect the theory that the fractals are memories if the Gods. I mean that’s a baffling theory come out of nowhere

    There nothing that says Jormag is their leader. In fact if there was even a speck of truth we would have seen something of it by now

    I think when theorycrafting, it is always more prudent to use the lore the game actually provides rather than change the lore entirely to make new facts which don’t really tie up. For your theories to work, the game would need to be retold from scratch. As the above poster says, this isn’t a terribly deep story

    Honestly, the reveal of Balth was one of the coolest moments in GW2 history so if they somehow reintroduce the human Gods i.e. they come back or we go to them it could save this entire franchise in my conspiracy theory opinion allegedly.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 21, 2020

    The theory is cool, but I'm sorry for ruining the party:

    • Unfortunately the current direction of the lore is to throw the Gods related stuff under the rug. POF was a nail in the coffin. LS4 had near 0 human god related stuff aside small map achievs.

    Plots that could be "lifted" but look completely dead atm.:

    • Balthazar use of Lyssa mirror, we must accept that he took the mirror at Sirens Landing.
    • Balthazar don't mentioning Lyssa when cursing gods.
    • The last POF battle and meta were in Vabbi, a place where Lyssa was worshiped and full of temples of her there.

    @HotDelirium.7984 said:
    Honestly, the reveal of Balth was one of the coolest moments in GW2 history so if they somehow reintroduce the human Gods i.e. they come back or we go to them it could save this entire franchise in my conspiracy theory opinion allegedly.

    Agreed. Elder Dragons is becoming crazily boring.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • @Stephen.6312 said:
    Hi everyone,
    I've been thinking about the direction in which the GW2 story is heading and I wanted to share my thoughts with readers, for better or for worse.

    As you may know, I've long theorized that the event referred to by Northern Tryian human historians as "the Exodus" was a spell, cast by Lyssa. In my opinion, given the events of Chaos Theory, the spell displaced those whom it affected, from the region of the Crystal Desert, north-west, forming the region that the Apostate's map calls "Thyria". I think that this region is that to which the Guild Wars Prophecies Manuscripts refer, geographically defined as "[t]he Tarnished Coast in the west to the Bay of Sirens (now called the Sea of Sorrows) in the south....the far eastern reaches of the Crystal Desert to the Giants’ Basin on the northern coast of Kryta".

    It is my belief that the Elder Dragons are attempting to counter Lyssa's spell. In my opinion, Lyssa is a spirit of time, dwelling within the the sphere of influence over which Kralkatorrik held sway (time). Although I can't yet construct robust reasoning for my conviction, I nonetheless feel that Glint's legacy, which affects time, has a pivotal part to play in this process.

    Now onto the wild speculation. I believe that Lyssa cast her spell during the Great Battle of the Gates of Heaven. The conflict between the gods was so traumatic that it threatened to destroy the entire planet. So Lyssa cast her spell to try and buy everyone more time to resolve their differences. (These differences manifest as many things. But the most immediate form they take is tormented magic). But this came at great personal cost. Either due to the casting of the spell, or possibly an injury inflicted by a fellow god, Lyssa was injured. As she lay dying, then, the spell was cast.

    Lyssa poured what was left of herself, her lifeforce, into the Exodus spell, essentially becoming a part of the new reality in which Northern Tyrians live. This manifests in a number of ways, all of which involve chronological aberrations. For example, no one can find origin stories of Lyssa.. Northern Tyrian history "resets". Northern Tyrians' timekeeping practices are unusual; they rely on the Mouvelian Calendar (all of the Guild Wars books reference the calendar), a human way of marking the passage of time, even though their are at least four other races capable of producing timekeeping records of some kind. Furthermore, timekeeping practices among Tyrian humans differ wildly. Dynastic Reckoning was developed by Elonian human scholars; the Canthan Calendar is used by Canthan human scholars. Although it is possible that the Mouvelian Calendar looks to Tyria's sun as the most accurate timekeeper, this may not be the case. It suggests that, however time is passing within the reality that we know of as "Thyria", it isn't determined by something that other isolated populations - Elonians and Canthans being just two examples of these - find compelling enough to look to for their own chronological reckoning.

    Anyhow, I believe that part of the dragons' work is to recover Lyssa's form. I believe that, although the goddess's essence forms the fabric of Northern Tyrian reality, she can still be discerned. Hence, in Path of Fire, Kormir refers to Lyssa as though the latter is still whole. However, the goddess's lifeforce is scattered throughout Thyria and the only way to save her is to reconcile the pieces of her by purging the magical elements, upon which she drew when she cast the Exodus spell, of their tormented magic. Presently, the Elder Dragons are closer than ever to doing this and Jormag, as their leader, is prepared to use any and every means necessary to see the dragons' work of countering Lyssa's spell completed. Thus, all of the Elders are working together, some even sacrificing themselves (Primordus), to help Jormag save Lyssa from complete annihilation.

    I believe that Balthazar's "Plan B" was to be absorbed by the Elder Dragons in order to use their powers to help him trace Lyssa's form. As I see it, Balthazar didn't curse Lyssa out of respect for the memory of her selfless sacrifice.

    This brings me to my thoughts on the Fractals of the Mists. I theorize that the Fractals may be the memories of one of the human gods, or perhaps all of the human gods, that collectively form a chronological ley-line (i.e. a timeline) of Lyssa's essence. Sunqua Peak may be an "encrypted" memory that reveals the true target of the Fractals: Lyssa. This Fractal coincides with the current state of Thyria, indicating to us how close the Elder Dragons are to restoring Lyssa to her family. Hence, the cries, "I can't bring her back!" and "I couldn't save her!" are ultimately uttered by Dwayna, referring to the loss of Lyssa at the Great Battle. I think that Dwayna and Abaddon were Lyssa's parents.

    I'm not sure why Jormag and the Deep Sea Dragon are squaring off, but it's possible that the traumatized magics of the terrestrial and aquatic biospheres, both of which were present at the Great Battle at the Gates of Heaven, have been unwilling to resolve their differences because the process is too painful for them. Hence, the Elder Dragons are positioning these tormented magics into an unavoidable situation in which they must face each other and finally put away their long-standing grudges. Only then will it be possible for the Elders to restore Lyssa's form, reverse the Exodus spell, and return the Crystal Desert to it's former glory.

    Your thoughts?

    I think you're probably a Poe.

    Hate Is Fuel.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stephen.6312 said:
    Hi everyone,
    I've been thinking about the direction in which the GW2 story is heading and I wanted to share my thoughts with readers, for better or for worse.

    As you may know, I've long theorized that the event referred to by Northern Tryian human historians as "the Exodus" was a spell, cast by Lyssa. In my opinion, given the events of Chaos Theory, the spell displaced those whom it affected, from the region of the Crystal Desert, north-west, forming the region that the Apostate's map calls "Thyria". I think that this region is that to which the Guild Wars Prophecies Manuscripts refer, geographically defined as "[t]he Tarnished Coast in the west to the Bay of Sirens (now called the Sea of Sorrows) in the south....the far eastern reaches of the Crystal Desert to the Giants’ Basin on the northern coast of Kryta".

    It is my belief that the Elder Dragons are attempting to counter Lyssa's spell. In my opinion, Lyssa is a spirit of time, dwelling within the the sphere of influence over which Kralkatorrik held sway (time). Although I can't yet construct robust reasoning for my conviction, I nonetheless feel that Glint's legacy, which affects time, has a pivotal part to play in this process.

    Now onto the wild speculation. I believe that Lyssa cast her spell during the Great Battle of the Gates of Heaven. The conflict between the gods was so traumatic that it threatened to destroy the entire planet. So Lyssa cast her spell to try and buy everyone more time to resolve their differences. (These differences manifest as many things. But the most immediate form they take is tormented magic). But this came at great personal cost. Either due to the casting of the spell, or possibly an injury inflicted by a fellow god, Lyssa was injured. As she lay dying, then, the spell was cast.

    Lyssa poured what was left of herself, her lifeforce, into the Exodus spell, essentially becoming a part of the new reality in which Northern Tyrians live. This manifests in a number of ways, all of which involve chronological aberrations. For example, no one can find origin stories of Lyssa.. Northern Tyrian history "resets". Northern Tyrians' timekeeping practices are unusual; they rely on the Mouvelian Calendar (all of the Guild Wars books reference the calendar), a human way of marking the passage of time, even though their are at least four other races capable of producing timekeeping records of some kind. Furthermore, timekeeping practices among Tyrian humans differ wildly. Dynastic Reckoning was developed by Elonian human scholars; the Canthan Calendar is used by Canthan human scholars. Although it is possible that the Mouvelian Calendar looks to Tyria's sun as the most accurate timekeeper, this may not be the case. It suggests that, however time is passing within the reality that we know of as "Thyria", it isn't determined by something that other isolated populations - Elonians and Canthans being just two examples of these - find compelling enough to look to for their own chronological reckoning.

    Anyhow, I believe that part of the dragons' work is to recover Lyssa's form. I believe that, although the goddess's essence forms the fabric of Northern Tyrian reality, she can still be discerned. Hence, in Path of Fire, Kormir refers to Lyssa as though the latter is still whole. However, the goddess's lifeforce is scattered throughout Thyria and the only way to save her is to reconcile the pieces of her by purging the magical elements, upon which she drew when she cast the Exodus spell, of their tormented magic. Presently, the Elder Dragons are closer than ever to doing this and Jormag, as their leader, is prepared to use any and every means necessary to see the dragons' work of countering Lyssa's spell completed. Thus, all of the Elders are working together, some even sacrificing themselves (Primordus), to help Jormag save Lyssa from complete annihilation.

    I believe that Balthazar's "Plan B" was to be absorbed by the Elder Dragons in order to use their powers to help him trace Lyssa's form. As I see it, Balthazar didn't curse Lyssa out of respect for the memory of her selfless sacrifice.

    This brings me to my thoughts on the Fractals of the Mists. I theorize that the Fractals may be the memories of one of the human gods, or perhaps all of the human gods, that collectively form a chronological ley-line (i.e. a timeline) of Lyssa's essence. Sunqua Peak may be an "encrypted" memory that reveals the true target of the Fractals: Lyssa. This Fractal coincides with the current state of Thyria, indicating to us how close the Elder Dragons are to restoring Lyssa to her family. Hence, the cries, "I can't bring her back!" and "I couldn't save her!" are ultimately uttered by Dwayna, referring to the loss of Lyssa at the Great Battle. I think that Dwayna and Abaddon were Lyssa's parents.

    I'm not sure why Jormag and the Deep Sea Dragon are squaring off, but it's possible that the traumatized magics of the terrestrial and aquatic biospheres, both of which were present at the Great Battle at the Gates of Heaven, have been unwilling to resolve their differences because the process is too painful for them. Hence, the Elder Dragons are positioning these tormented magics into an unavoidable situation in which they must face each other and finally put away their long-standing grudges. Only then will it be possible for the Elders to restore Lyssa's form, reverse the Exodus spell, and return the Crystal Desert to it's former glory.

    Your thoughts?

    I love your enthusiasm for the lore and the story, as well look behind some established storylines, however, I think your over complicating things here trying to push Physics and scientific theory into GW2. All this terrestrial and aquatic magics, as well as odd fan theories of alternate universe, weird time paradoxes and multiverse stuff is really going way off the deep end of the lore. None of these things have ever been mentioned in the GW2 story.

    So as much as I love this level of trying to unpack the game world, I believe your thinking on a whole different level then the dev team.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 23, 2020

    I'd just echo Randulf. Neat theory, but a lot of this stuff is disproven already or assumes that players were lied to extensively, including by developers. None of which is a strong point for a theory.

    For example:

    • Thyria is not a region on the planet, it is the planet.
    • Lyssa isn't a spirit of time, she - like the other gods - are foreign and are unrelated to the Elder Dragons. As such, the Elder Dragons wouldn't care about "recovering Lyssa's form", because her (and all gods) entire existence as far as the ED are concerned happened while they slept.
    • Kralkatorrik's domains are not related to time, despite prophecizing being a family trait.
    • Lyssa has literal records existing post-Exodus, which would counter the idea that she poured her lifeforce (if gods even have such a thing) effectively physically dying.
    • Despite the OP's claim, timekeeping methods do not differ from Northern Tyrian to others. There is still the same passage of time - just because different calendars have a different starting date doesn't mean there's a different timekeeping method. Dynastic Reckoning and the Mouvelian calendar are both solar-seasonal calendars, while the Canthan calendar is a lunar-seasonal calendar. Different calendars exist in reality too, with nearly every culture developing their own calendar. They still count the passage of time the same, they just use different markers for where to start and stop their numbers. A year is the same length regardless of placement on Tyria, just as on Earth.

    There's more points of conflict, to the point where it just doesn't work.

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    The theory is cool, but I'm sorry for ruining the party:

    • Unfortunately the current direction of the lore is to throw the Gods related stuff under the rug. POF was a nail in the coffin. LS4 had near 0 human god related stuff aside small map achievs.

    Anet actively established that the gods' plot wasn't over after PoF, and Balthazar's lack of mentioning Lyssa was intentional. I highly doubt they were just referring to Hall of Chains or Dragonfall map.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    The theory is cool, but I'm sorry for ruining the party:

    • Unfortunately the current direction of the lore is to throw the Gods related stuff under the rug. POF was a nail in the coffin. LS4 had near 0 human god related stuff aside small map achievs.

    Anet actively established that the gods' plot wasn't over after PoF, and Balthazar's lack of mentioning Lyssa was intentional. I highly doubt they were just referring to Hall of Chains or Dragonfall map.

    Dunno, that might be giving Anet too much credit. Not like they haven't dropped plot lines in the past.

    Hate Is Fuel.