Suggestion: limit NPC participation gain to once per cap

tldr: 1v1 stalemate loses participation for the defender and isn't worth it - if you fail to kill on the initial pass, just let them have the camp

Just had an interaction in WvW where I couldn't kill the attacked, and attacker couldn't kill me in camp, but because of stealth and mobility, they could reset at any time but also get at least one NPC killed. I started losing participation for actually defending, and it never counted as part of the defense event. Please make NPC kills not count for their participation after the first time so that at least they also start to lose participation. Yaks limit this a bit, I know, but it felt awful to be penalized for playing the game as intended.

Alternatively, please make defense events give credit for something other than kills.

Not going to happen. Anet has long since decreed that even if you fight for 15 minutes while being heavily outnumbered, you arent arent actually participating in WvW unless you win.

Fight guilds go by the same principle. It was only a good fight if they won.

You should get credit for ressing guards during a defense event I say.

WvW is not for duelling, you are taking one of the limited spots in that map for doing something you can do in obsidian sanctum.If you want to benefit from the participation you should do that, participate .

I personally would remove the participation from killing NPCs, you should only be able to gain participation by defeating players, conquest objetives or supply runs.It should be enough incentive to keep the camp (points + supplies) if the rewards for wining the match would be significant enough. Participation for just defending objectives can be easily abused thus i would remove it, you should get it when defeating enemy invaders.

this is yours choose stay solo and try def. So lose participation also part of your choose. Find pug blob or party. Leave solo mode for story instance.

Just don't bother defending camps- let them flip, then flip them back when they are off cooldown. It's clearly the way the game should be played as that what the participation tells us....

@anduriell.6280 said:WvW is not for duelling, you are taking one of the limited spots in that map for doing something you can do in obsidian sanctum.If you want to benefit from the participation you should do that, participate .

I've personally dropped from T6 to below T3 because I was defending a spawn tower vs a 5 man guild with no supply to repair, tried to delay them running to the spawncamp while calling for help, delaying them at the camp and then giving up on it because I no longer participated in WvW despite probably having downed them like 10 times but failed to secure a kill because as per usual its one pocket healer per dps at the minimum.

Anet does not consider that participating in WvW.

You dont either?

Should I have whispered them and taken the 1v5 to Obsidian?

Sadly anet wants everything to stay paper and flip,flip,flip. Even though your team gets more points for upgraded objectives. A few of our players will sacrifice their participation to guard camps but not many. Similarly a few will walk yaks. When I call for help defending, sometimes I will only get a few to help but 20 or more will come to take the tower/keep back. Most don’t seem to like defending. I enjoy the challenge even if I lose participation. I empathize with your dilemma but I doubt anet will change it. I hope you stay in wvw. The game mode needs more defenders even if there is no reward for defending

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:WvW is not for duelling, you are taking one of the limited spots in that map for doing something you can do in obsidian sanctum.If you want to benefit from the participation you should do that,

participate

.

I've personally dropped from T6 to below T3 because I was defending a spawn tower vs a 5 man guild with no supply to repair, tried to delay them running to the spawncamp while calling for help, delaying them at the camp and then giving up on it because I no longer

participated

in WvW despite probably having downed them like 10 times but failed to secure a kill because as per usual its one pocket healer per dps at the minimum.

Well that should be the risk of defending: if you could get help you would be able to defeat them. Because nobody helped you, you ended up wasting 10 mins of everybody's time. You did what you were supposed to but your server didn't respond in kind. If after a minute or so nobody came i would have left the tower be flipped.

I think repairing as a defensive strategy shouldn't be a thing: Repairing should be something you do after a siege. If you can't see how annoying is to trying to flip a tower but one player inside just keep delaying the inevitable for nothing we won't be able to understand each other.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:WvW is not for duelling, you are taking one of the limited spots in that map for doing something you can do in obsidian sanctum.If you want to benefit from the participation you should do that,

participate

.

I've personally dropped from T6 to below T3 because I was defending a spawn tower vs a 5 man guild with no supply to repair, tried to delay them running to the spawncamp while calling for help, delaying them at the camp and then giving up on it because I no longer

participated

in WvW despite probably having downed them like 10 times but failed to secure a kill because as per usual its one pocket healer per dps at the minimum.

I have been in this same spot, fighting comped party groups of 4-5 players solo, I held one off for an hour and the majority of the time I was dropping participation outside of about half way into it I killed one cata they had, I would glide from lords to the ruins DPS and then glide off, could never get a kill as they had a FB, ele, engi and necro, it was non-stopped barrier and healing. Yet I get less participation from that than if I had just gone and killed a single sentry. I think combat with other players should stop the loss of participation, even if you die, as most of the time in these situations you are working harder than the fights you win or steamroll the other side in.

It's not like WvW is a crazy loot farm anyway, defending and fighting actual players should have a much greater impact on rewards than ktraining the same undefended paper tower for the 10th time. I know I am dreaming here though, as this will never happen.

You can't. What else is there. I fought someone at a camp can't be it. Call out in map cut your losses I mean it's a camp. It's the same if I try and get somewhere and fight a thief win but of course he runs. It's so they can't just send a bot thru the map to attack die and get participation. The tower you can rep walls just don't dump all in if you alone vs 5 you get 5m on any amount even 2 supply I know we specced to 10. Need at least use 4 supply to get defense

camps are in many cases just not worth defending. if ur the biggest server in the matchup by around 2000 activity count, then yeah okay. if not, high questionable to defend anything, since the chance of the opponent bringing just several times your size is big, and not all classes have a chill time at disengaging from a set up gank against 2+ roaming chars with pvp sets.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@"anduriell.6280" said:WvW is not for duelling, you are taking one of the limited spots in that map for doing something you can do in obsidian sanctum.If you want to benefit from the participation you should do that,

participate

.

I've personally dropped from T6 to below T3 because I was defending a spawn tower vs a 5 man guild with no supply to repair, tried to delay them running to the spawncamp while calling for help, delaying them at the camp and then giving up on it because I no longer

participated

in WvW despite probably having downed them like 10 times but failed to secure a kill because as per usual its one pocket healer per dps at the minimum.

Technically, you are proving his point.

You spent time delaying something basically inevitable, given the situation you described, while low on resources and player support, while being heavily out numbered and not skilled enough to compensate for the gap. It comes down to opportunity cost here: think about what else you could have done in that time which would have actually mattered to the server match-up? Flipped some camps, flipped some guards, giving this group which is dangerous to bigger objectives potential new targets instead of going for the next tower. You could have even gone and gotten supplies yourself in order to better defend the tower, instead of trailing the group.

I'm pretty sure the developers would love to hand out participation based on players actively playing the game mode, but right now this is tied to objectives as to ensure players are engaged in some type of meaningful exchange (no matter how little meaning this exchange might be, given karma trains and so on). That tower "defense" would have also looked very different if you had supplies, in which case participation would again not have been an issue.

So technically, no, roaming without significant impact is not participating in WvW according to the current participation methods.

@Dawdler.8521 said:Anet does not consider that participating in WvW.Anet consider that participating in WvW! Specilal for that they add share participation fo squad. So if squad lead think that yours defense is valid and good -you can def it and get participation. If squad lead think opposite - you ned find another lead, another server, or change tactic.

@Avengedeath.4671 said:I will only get a few to help but 20 or more will come to take the tower/keep back. Most don’t seem to like defending. I enjoy the challenge even if I lose participation. I empathize with your dilemma but I doubt anet will change it.it is already changed for true and heroic defenders. Answer: share participation option.

@lare.5129 said:

@Avengedeath.4671 said:I will only get a few to help but 20 or more will come to take the tower/keep back. Most don’t seem to like defending. I enjoy the challenge even if I lose participation. I empathize with your dilemma but I doubt anet will change it.it is already changed for true and heroic defenders. Answer: share participation option.

@"Avengedeath.4671" said:I play an average of 12 hours a day everyday, not always a commander on who appreciates/ needs a scout.so if during some time yours "defend" is not needed this is mean that you do that no one needed.

I defended fire keep last night against 3 or 4 small groups for 2 hours. Very fun but hard to keep my participation up.and this is good motivation to do something another.

Congratulations if you always have a tag to give you participation.more easy: I don't try image that you I do solo def is good thing. If someone needed - tag give me participation. If not needed - I don't do.

main mind: is is realy good - you get participation from guild/community/etc .. if not needed - no participation :+1:

@lare.5129 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:Anet does not consider that participating in WvW.Anet consider that participating in WvW! Specilal for that they add share participation fo squad. So if squad lead think that yours defense is valid and good -you can def it and get participation. If squad lead think opposite - you ned find another lead, another server, or change tactic.

Also there is a slight problem if I am the commander.

@anduriell.6280 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@anduriell.6280 said:WvW is not for duelling, you are taking one of the limited spots in that map for doing something you can do in obsidian sanctum.If you want to benefit from the participation you should do that,

participate

.

I've personally dropped from T6 to below T3 because I was defending a spawn tower vs a 5 man guild with no supply to repair, tried to delay them running to the spawncamp while calling for help, delaying them at the camp and then giving up on it because I no longer

participated

in WvW despite probably having downed them like 10 times but failed to secure a kill because as per usual its one pocket healer per dps at the minimum.

So, he should just abandon the tower to let you take it. Brilliant.

Wouldn’t want to slow down your karma train I guess.

@Dawdler.8521 said:Thats not how reality works, or how organized, random or raid squads behave in any way.so may be don't mix organization issues whit implemented features?

Also there is a slight problem if I am the commander.yes, you also can up tag and ask join to get participation for defense. The root communication and targets, but not already implemented feature.

This rarely ever happens. Both of you are either really good players or really bad players. I conclude it’s the later, otherwise this thread wouldn’t show up.

@SexyMofo.8923 said:This rarely ever happens.

that happens? why it should happen? it is ok, or not ok if happen? this is question, but not rare rate on community slack.

Both of you are either really good players or really bad players.this is gw2 WVW. That is measurement of good or bad? rank ? number of gift of battle gifts? wvw leg armor ? pvp 1 vs 1 skill? god of wvw title ? ultimate dominator title? or nice few videos on youtube whit roam?

@SexyMofo.8923 said:This rarely ever happens.

This ^ and calling for changes based on something that rarely happens really does not carry much weight.

@Vavume.8065 said:

@"SexyMofo.8923" said:This rarely ever happens.

I think this is part of the problem with wvw, people don't defend anymore. WvW was originally part pve part pvp. Now I guess it is all pvp? The objectives are just there to take if the squad/group gets bored or can't find fights? It is sad that defending "rarely ever happens".