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What are some traits that need to be: Fixed/Changed/Removed?


Tseison.4659

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Note: My “thoughts” on what trait line should be geared towards is just that, my wishful thinking. We as Mesmer players are already living through the ultimate illusion, so I’m not expecting any changes. But who knows.

! Domination! “Ideally should be personal damage focused aka the Power trait line, might, interrupts etc.”!
! None (that I can think of)

! Dueling! “Ideally should be focused on mobility, reflects, vigor, swiftness, endurance etc.”!! Change/Remove: I feel that Blinding Dissipation should be moved into the Master of Fragmentation in the Illusion tree, so instead of shatter two crippling, it will blind.!! Change/Remove: Duelists Discipline should come free with the pistol and changed into something else.

! Chaos! “Ideally should be focused on condition damage, duration, confusion, retaliation etc.”!! Change: Chaotic Transference, the gain expertise based on your concentration should be removed since the top condition gears are Trailblazers and Vipers, which means we’re losing concentration and making this trait useless. Have it so that we gain expertise based on condition damage or even vitality. Again, if I’m wearing full trailblazers and have 0% concentration, I’m only getting half the benefit from this trait.!
! Change/Remove: Chaotic Persistence, as a tier 3 trait, 2% doesn’t scream that viable to me.!
! Change: Chaotic Interruption, move to the Dueling tree.!! Change: Bountiful Disillusionment, have it affect nearby allies as well?

! Illusions! “Ideally should be focused on shatters, illusions and phantasms. Pretty self-explanatory.”!
! Change/Remove: Escape Artist, I love the name, but we already have Desperate Decoy and don’t have access to many stealth skills like the Thief.!
! Change: Malicious Sorcery, remove the attack speed and have it come with the scepter weapon already as a base. Then add something along the lines of increased damage towards foes with confusion or torment by X%.

! Inspiration! “Lastly, I think this trait line should be our support tree, heals, boons and buffs to supportive utilities like glamours etc.”!
! Change/Remove: Restorative Mantras, have tested it on a full Minstrel and healing to other allies build and the healing is barely noticeable. The healing should be at least a burst heal comparable to the well of eternity or have it’s healing increased.!! Change/Remove: Wardens Feedback, have it already be a part of the Focus weapon and replace the trait with something else towards our glamours, heal or boons.!
! Change/Remove: Protected Phantasms don’t need protection if they turn to clones right after they’ve attacked, so this is essentially a waste slot and needs to be replaced with something else.!! Change: Mental Defense, remove the phantasm and perhaps have it so that Glamours reduce damage to allies standing in them or a trait that reduces condition damage/duration (maybe against torment and confusion).

! Chronomancer!
! Change/Tweak: Lost Time and Remove/Change Seize the Moment as so far these two don’t match up to Chronophantasma. The last time I picked Lost Time was for my boon build when supporting.

! Mirage!! Change/Remove: Mirage Mantle, change it to something else.! Change/Remove: Dune Cloak, I’d have this trait take the spot of Mirage Mantle and have.

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I hate playing domination but for my friends who do : we shouldn't have to chose between 15% more illusion damage or upgraded GS, these two talents were and should be at two differents tiers.Escape artist is a also a must change, it's useless because it's on the same tier as Maim the Disillusioned which is much more stronger. Also what's the purpose of having a clone when you go invisible if shatters make you revealed.The randomness of Chaotic Interruption made it useless, I know that this trait was too much OP before this change but now it's impossible to make a good use of it.Finally the change I would like the most : Malicious Sorcery should be the base attack speed for scepter.

I really like Restorative Mantras in PvP, especially with the healing mantra, it allows you have great healing power and it was even more op when the healing mantra had a 10sec CD. I believe that it shouldn't be touched now. If it is buffed, I assure you that mesmer won't be killable, which will lead to more nerfs.

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@Woltarion.6829 said:I hate playing domination but for my friends who do : we shouldn't have to chose between 15% more illusion damage or upgraded GS, these two talents were and should be at two differents tiers.Escape artist is a also a must change, it's useless because it's on the same tier as Maim the Disillusioned which is much more stronger. Also what's the purpose of having a clone when you go invisible if shatters make you revealed.The randomness of Chaotic Interruption made it useless, I know that this trait was too much OP before this change but now it's impossible to make a good use of it.Finally the change I would like the most : Malicious Sorcery should be the base attack speed for scepter.

I really like Restorative Mantras in PvP, especially with the healing mantra, it allows you have great healing power and it was even more op when the healing mantra had a 10sec CD. I believe that it shouldn't be touched now. If it is buffed, I assure you that mesmer won't be killable, which will lead to more nerfs.

I respect that. Do you still put points into the domination tree or do you currently run something else? I myself run full zerker so I take Domination and I’ll usually take the GS trait when in Chrono (for WvW) but in PVE I’ll take the increased illusion damage.

Yeah Restorative I think is working differently for either one of us and I’ve run a full minstrel and healing items build with it and still not getting these amazing heals so....don’t know what to tell you there.

But with that said, I think some people need to realize additionally that when EoD arrives and when they announce the new specializations, traits WILL be adjusted, nerfed, changed etc... to compensate for balance.

So it’s all fine and dandy when some players say “don’t disturb the class or disagree with what was posted” even though they can’t back it up with how the trait is useful. And the ones I’ve mentioned are not even meta or traits people bother to pick up so, I’ll take their replies as a quick personal attack and would rather see Mesmer not get any sort of treatment while everyone else does.

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I don't use domination at all, most of the time I'm using a condi build with illusion, chaos, inspiration. Currently, i'm using duel instead of chaos. The heal power of the mantra + restorative mantra is only for self healing and combining this with sage amulet can garanty you to almost full head yourself by charging the mantra and using instantly the two charges. The downside of course is that it can be easily interrupted, this is why i'm using lot's of stealth.

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@Woltarion.6829 said:I hate playing domination but for my friends who do : we shouldn't have to chose between 15% more illusion damage or upgraded GS, these two talents were and should be at two differents tiers.~I completely agree, and i also think that there should be 1 main traitline that focuses on phantasms' damage (considering the max 25% dmg modifier to to phantasms in the illusion traitline)

The randomness of Chaotic Interruption made it useless, I know that this trait was too much OP before this change but now it's impossible to make a good use of it.~Extremely useless trait indeed...just sadFinally the change I would like the most : Malicious Sorcery should be the base attack speed for scepter.~Its literally a weapon CD reduction GRANDMASTER trait, actually sad, whats the point of it if quickness is way better and they don't stack

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@K THEN.5162 said:Rending Shatter in the domination line: Shatter skills inflict 1 stack of Vulnerability on hit for 8 seconds.This is absolutely the most worthless MAJOR trait I've ever seen.

it CAN be good on condi, to cover massive confusion spike with shitty 1-4 vulnerability stacks, sometimes 1 extra cover condi is difference between enemy being unable to cleanse and enemy being able to cleanse.

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I hate Dueling.

Dueling imo, seems to be majorly dominated by Deceptive Evasion.Do yu need the clones?Y > Try and squeeze Dueling into the build.N > Dueling is pretty worthless, pick something else.

Everything else is like "eh, sure why not" or "eh, there's nothing better, and I won't die even if I don't pick anything else"

But sir, there's like, nice crit synergy in the build, and it makes Pistol condi hit like a truck!Again, if yu don't run Pistol, then its useless.If yu don't run power crit, it's also useless.

If yu wanna run a Defensive tanky condi build, Chaos is way way better.If yu wanna run Power burst, Domination.

The only time yu ever pick Dueling is if yu are a suicidal maniac which goes like Domination + Dueling or Illusions + Dueling, or if yu are Core.

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For the sake of making different e-specs concept easier to integrate, I'd change:

  • Mental anguish: This trait basically force the F skills to have a damaging component, it's a restrictive design. I'd change it to: "gain 20 power (10s) for each illusion you shatter. Stack up to 10 time."
  • Master of fragmentation: I'd change the effect of this trait on mind wrack to: "Recharge 15% faster" (making it a 30% reduced CD of mind wrack along master of misdirection)
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@"Yasai.3549" said:

I hate Dueling.

Dueling imo, seems to be majorly dominated by Deceptive Evasion.Do yu need the clones?Y > Try and squeeze Dueling into the build.N > Dueling is pretty worthless, pick something else.

Everything else is like "eh, sure why not" or "eh, there's nothing better, and I won't die even if I don't pick anything else"

But sir, there's like, nice crit synergy in the build, and it makes Pistol condi hit like a truck!Again, if yu don't run Pistol, then its useless.If yu don't run power crit, it's also useless.

If yu wanna run a Defensive tanky condi build, Chaos is way way better.If yu wanna run Power burst, Domination.

The only time yu ever pick Dueling is if yu are a suicidal maniac which goes like Domination + Dueling or Illusions + Dueling, or if yu are Core.

Honestly having a hard to completely understand what you're trying to say, but my thing is that dueling is an extremely versatile traitline, even TOO versatile, it can be tanky/defensive any which way depending on the spec and other trait lines that you're running simply because of traits like sharper images, deceptive evasion, ineptitude and the synergy with mesmer's mechanics. So i can see why you would write about dueling under this forum discussion but i don't see why your main reason is because its "useless" when its literally ran sooo many mesmer builds.

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@"Yasai.3549" said:

I hate Dueling.

Dueling imo, seems to be majorly dominated by Deceptive Evasion.Do yu need the clones?Y > Try and squeeze Dueling into the build.N > Dueling is pretty worthless, pick something else.

Everything else is like "eh, sure why not" or "eh, there's nothing better, and I won't die even if I don't pick anything else"

But sir, there's like, nice crit synergy in the build, and it makes Pistol condi hit like a truck!Again, if yu don't run Pistol, then its useless.If yu don't run power crit, it's also useless.

If yu wanna run a Defensive tanky condi build, Chaos is way way better.If yu wanna run Power burst, Domination.

The only time yu ever pick Dueling is if yu are a suicidal maniac which goes like Domination + Dueling or Illusions + Dueling, or if yu are Core.

DE is good due to IH, without it its not all that good of a traitpeople sleep on suplex, 25% damage modifier that is reasonable to obtain... its one of if not the best damage trait in the entire game.I personally go illusion for 25% crit on F1, extra F1 charge and extra 10% dmg mod, eagle rune for crit/ferocity, fury from dueling and you end up with 100% crit chance on F1, vulnerability from GS ambush/GS2, and pain train is coming

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@"necromaniac.7629" said:So i can see why you would write about dueling under this forum discussion but i don't see why your main reason is because its "useless" when its literally ran sooo many mesmer builds.

Like I said, dueling is largely dominated by the usefulness of Deceptive Evasion.

All Mirage builds run this nearly by default.

All Shatter builds run this because without it their clone uptime is straight up garbage.

What if yu play GS glass power burst?Domination Illusions for Mirage or Chrono.

No one picks Dueling just because they want any other aspect of Dueling other than clone generation on dodge.

Just because one or two people do doesn't make it any more worth picking other than for Deceptive Evasion.

Yu can literally lift Deceptive Evasion out of Dueling and drop it into Chaos and Dueling picks for builds will straight up plummet into an all time low, especially since alot of "defensive" traits in Dueling have cooldowns for competitive.

Core power is the only thing I see right now which runs Dueling as a choice, but even so, I've seen people go for Inspiration instead for sustain and cleanse.

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@Yasai.3549 said:

@"necromaniac.7629" said:So i can see why you would write about dueling under this forum discussion but i don't see why your main reason is because its "useless" when its literally ran sooo many mesmer builds.

Like I said, dueling is largely dominated by the usefulness of Deceptive Evasion.

All Mirage builds run this nearly by default.

All Shatter builds run this because without it their clone uptime is straight up garbage.

What if yu play GS glass power burst?Domination Illusions for Mirage or Chrono.

No one picks Dueling just because they want any other aspect of Dueling other than clone generation on dodge.

Just because one or two people do doesn't make it any more worth picking other than for Deceptive Evasion.

Yu can literally lift Deceptive Evasion out of Dueling and drop it into Chaos and Dueling picks for builds will straight up plummet into an all time low, especially since alot of "defensive" traits in Dueling have cooldowns for competitive.

Core power is the only thing I see right now which runs Dueling as a choice, but even so, I've seen people go for Inspiration instead for sustain and cleanse.

this season I have been running dueling over domi, and damage is MUCH higer.but its questionable if its worth it due to loss off boonrip, but the damage itself is better.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:this season I have been running dueling over domi, and damage is MUCH higer.but its questionable if its worth it due to loss off boonrip, but the damage itself is better.

I personally run: Dom/Illu/Chrono and I stopped taking Shattered Concentration with me because in WvW there's just way too much boon uptime and application that it just isn't enough in my opinion. I wish it removed more or had this effect where if your foe had a certain threshold of boons on them, the shatters would remove more.

But I think I'll try running Duel/Illu/Chrono and see how I feel.

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@Tseison.4659 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:this season I have been running dueling over domi, and damage is MUCH higer.but its questionable if its worth it due to loss off boonrip, but the damage itself is better.

I personally run: Dom/Illu/Chrono and I stopped taking Shattered Concentration with me because in WvW there's just way too much boon uptime and application that it just isn't enough in my opinion. I wish it removed more or had this effect where if your foe had a certain threshold of boons on them, the shatters would remove more.

But I think I'll try running Duel/Illu/Chrono and see how I feel.

its 100% worth it, imagine that you shatter and remove protection, doing that alone will increase shatter damage by 50%, even if its reapplies, its one of those traits that makes HUGE value but you just dont notice it

as for chrono, danger time + suplex is actually nutty25% extra dmg on crits , extra 15% crit chance and another 10% extra crit damage.combine it with traited F1 and fury from dueling and you get 60% extra crit chance on F1, it will ALWAYS crit, even if you dont go full damage gear, and then it just procs all dmg bonuses ;p

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@Yasai.3549 said:

@"necromaniac.7629" said:So i can see why you would write about dueling under this forum discussion but i don't see why your main reason is because its "useless" when its literally ran sooo many mesmer builds.

Like I said, dueling is largely dominated by the usefulness of Deceptive Evasion.

All Mirage builds run this nearly by default.

All Shatter builds run this because without it their clone uptime is straight up garbage.

What if yu play GS glass power burst?Domination Illusions for Mirage or Chrono.

No one picks Dueling just because they want any other aspect of Dueling other than clone generation on dodge.

Just because one or two people do doesn't make it any more worth picking other than for Deceptive Evasion.

Yu can literally lift Deceptive Evasion out of Dueling and drop it into Chaos and Dueling picks for builds will straight up plummet into an all time low, especially since alot of "defensive" traits in Dueling have cooldowns for competitive.

Core power is the only thing I see right now which runs Dueling as a choice, but even so, I've seen people go for Inspiration instead for sustain and cleanse.

Power and Condi Chrono are literally META builds that use dueling NOT because of deceptive evasion sir, idk if your whole argument is based around competitive game modes in which you didn't state...and as i said...dueling synergizes too well with alot of other things. And even if you were talking competitive everyone knows how mirage or should i say infinite horizon with DE is trash now anyways, i could list every specific trait are viable/meta in dueling

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The traits that I want to be reworked are Danger Time and Chronophantasma in my opinion.1) Danger time requires slow condi which is a very rare condi and chrono himself has trouble maintaining it alone, making chrono be very dependant on condi renegade or other chronos. So stacking many pchronos on some raid bosses is pretty broken.2) Chronophantasma is the main damage source of power chrono. It has been broken since launch: many bugs still appear and that trait makes balancing chrono also difficult. I would like to see a complete rework on chrono traitline to fix those problems: even if that means making chrono a lil weaker but at least self sufficsient and faster at burst.

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@necromaniac.7629 said:

@necromaniac.7629 said:So i can see why you would write about dueling under this forum discussion but i don't see why your main reason is because its "useless" when its literally ran sooo many mesmer builds.

Like I said, dueling is largely dominated by the usefulness of Deceptive Evasion.

All Mirage builds run this nearly by default.

All Shatter builds run this because without it their clone uptime is straight up garbage.

What if yu play GS glass power burst?Domination Illusions for Mirage or Chrono.

No one picks Dueling just because they want any other aspect of Dueling other than clone generation on dodge.

Just because one or two people do doesn't make it any more worth picking other than for Deceptive Evasion.

Yu can literally lift Deceptive Evasion out of Dueling and drop it into Chaos and Dueling picks for builds will straight up plummet into an all time low, especially since alot of "defensive" traits in Dueling have cooldowns for competitive.

Core power is the only thing I see right now which runs Dueling as a choice, but even so, I've seen people go for Inspiration instead for sustain and cleanse.

Power and Condi Chrono are literally META builds that use dueling NOT because of deceptive evasion sir, idk if your whole argument is based around competitive game modes in which you didn't state...and as i said...dueling synergizes too well with alot of other things. And even if you were talking competitive everyone knows how mirage or should i say infinite horizon with DE is trash now anyways, i could list every specific trait are viable/meta in dueling

I agree. Is this thread about competitive mode only btw ? And even there I never run deceptive evasion if for some reason I go dueling. Superiority Complex for power builds and Ineptitude for condi work better imo. That one clone from dodging won't be of a much help, as you lose a lot of damage if you chose this option. There are better ways to bump up the clone generation than relying on that.

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Probably repeating myself at this point but:

  • Buff weapon traits to provide a bonus to something other than the weapon itself.
  • Replace a low-use trait for a Glamour trait.

Some random idea:

  • Revert All's Well That Ends Well to grant additional alacrity (either by adding on to or replacing current effects) to allow more options for specialized 'alachrono' builds in 5 man PvE content. It's a bit weird how chrono struggles so hard to pump out this boon that supposedly made it special in the first place.
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@Armen.1483 said:

I agree. Is this thread about competitive mode only btw ? And even there I never run deceptive evasion if for some reason I go dueling. Superiority Complex for power builds and Ineptitude for condi work better imo. That one clone from dodging won't be of a much help, as you lose a lot of damage if you chose this option. There are better ways to bump up the clone generation than relying on that.

In Competitive, not only do Mesmers get picked on if they don't run Defensive traitlines like Inspiration and Chaos, but their Clones often get killed before they even make it to their target to Shatter.

If we are talking about PvE however, then yea, people do run Dueling as a damage option, especially for Condi Chrono builds which uses Ineptitude together with Blinding Dissipation in order to make their Rewinder do significantly more damage.

I'm still going back to talk about Dueling :I feel like this traitline doesn't allow some traits to be picked often enough.

Desperate Decoy is kinda a niche pick for both PvE and PvP because in PvE, it brings no damage, and is probably only useful for Open world as a safety catch, and the cooldown is 2 mins long in PvP.

Evasive Mirror kinda has the same weird niche in PvE, where yu rarely have enemies do straight up projectile attacks (heck, even Mordrem Snipers leave that trail thingy, and most PoF mobs are ground targeting for their AoEs), and the cooldown in PvP is long enough that it doesn't provide much uptime for actual Projectile reflection, so yu end up picking Fencer's Finesse anyway, if not for the Ferocity, but also for the Cooldown reduction.

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