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Facet of Strength


WorldofBay.8160

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Facet of Strength costs 2 pips and pulses 1 Might per 3 secs for 12 secs - leading to 4 Might.Facet of Darkness costs 2 pips and pulses 5 Might per 3 secs for 9 secs with Incensed Response - leading to 15 Might.

So Facet of Darkness is the vastly superior Might source on a Herald which makes no sense since it is meant to grant Fury and there's a dedicated Might pulse. In fact it gives you permanent Fury with +7% damage from Ferocious Aggression and +40% crit chance instead of +20% from Roiling Mists plus 15 Might while Facet of Strength gives you 4 Might and nothing else.

With Eye for an Eye Gaze of Darkness gives 5 Might when used as stunbreak which, again, is more than the 4 Might Facet of Strength provides. Not permanent but it's 10 seconds Might with a cooldown of 15 seconds, 5 * 10/15 = 3, just short of the dedicated Might skill.

Then there are several other traits that buff all Facets, Shared Empowerment gives each of them shared 1 Might of 8 seconds per pulse, result in 2-3 permanent Might without the dedicated Might source.

So long story short, can we get a rework of Facet of Strength's active effect?

If it is meant to be the dedicated Might source it should at least get something from related traits. Shared Empowerment could give more Might for Facet of Strength than for other Facets, the Invocation traitline should provide something for Facet of Strength and maybe less Might-related buffs for Facet of Darkness in exchange.Alternatively give it a Might output that can at least compete with Invocation-traited Facet of Darkness - remember our skills are fixed, overshadowing one skill with another via traits is totally ok on other classes but on rev it kind of deletes one skill slot (well the comsume skill is nice but it would be great if the active skill were more unique ...).

Another possiblity would be to give it a different boon. With Facet of Strength, Facet of Darkness, Shared Empowerment, Incensed Response and a little bit of concentration a Herald has 22-25 Might permanently active without any buttons clicked, costs 4 pips only, so you can still use ressource skills. Removing Facet of Strength puts that down to 18+ Might for only 2 pips, still no buttons clicked.Which other boon (or effect, think of removing a condition or whatever) would be useful, not overpowered and fit a Herald?

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Yes! Im all for making Facet of Strength Useful.

Right now its an completely garbage Skill, thats even way worse than the Trait "Shared Empowerment".Making the Facet pulse 2 might per 3secs would even be enough to bring up its "possible might generation" to at least 20 without extra concentration, but its an change they need to make.Herald is definetely in need of 20-25might generation.... (still wouldnt make it op or so in any way)

Facets are supposed to be Supportive Skills, not garbage.

Druid is meta ,can keep up 25might for at least 10ppl. Same with Tempest, which is pretty amazing too.Herald is still counted as a joke. Would 20-25might for 5or10ppl fix that? Probably not.

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My suggestions: Facet of Strength should either pulse 2 Might (maybe for 3 upkeep?) or get reworked to pulse Retaliation.

If not reworked Shared Empowerment should give 1 additional stack of Might for Facet of Strength.

After Facet of Strength is made better in any way, Incensed Response should give less Might for Facet of Darkness (3? 2?). But not without the Facet of Strength buff.

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The facets are meant to be shared to allies while also providing boon support for the self.

Darkness is fine. It’s purely selfish might gain which is okay. It doesn’t spread better might to everyone else, which is what Facet of Strength is intended to do. Additionally in PvP Incensed Response is neutered so Darkness isn’t even that much stronger for passive might gain for self.

Strength is generally fine in PvP and WvW, though could use longer duration might or a second stack in PvE. Strength is meant to give self might but more importantly share that might to up to 10 people. It really doesn’t need to provide more might for the self than Darkness + Incensed Response since that’s not its inherent purpose.

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@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:Strength is generally fine in PvP and WvW, though could use longer duration might or a second stack in PvE. Strength is meant to give self might but more importantly share that might to up to 10 people. It really doesn’t need to provide more might for the self than Darkness + Incensed Response since that’s not its inherent purpose.

4 might with a buildup time of minimum 9 seconds for an overall starting cost of minimum 18 ressource (though it is free if stacked out of combat) for 5-10 peopleto stack 25 might you need 6 heralds permanently pulsing facet of strength for the 4 other guys.without the 10 player trait a full group of heralds pulsing facet of strength will not even reach 25 might.

while it might fill minor gaps in might distribution it comes at a pretty high cost for that little use as facet of darkness + facet of chaos already puts the energy negative and they're both superior.

a problem imo is that shared empowerment is not synergizing with facet of strength but rather rendering it useless while it could be the perfect trait to help facet of strength. it offers almost the facet of strength might output with glint, has 10 targets as base without an extra trait, costs no ressource and works with other legends just as well, if not better.shared empowerment should have a special synergy with facet of strength.

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I'm all for buffing Facet of Strength and just hardcore dumpstering Incensed Response.

I personally use Incensed Response, and I feel like it's too much, especially when it interacts with Herald in the way it does.Honestly, this is what makes Herald consistently high on the target list for nerfs, being able to self 25 Might in record time.And Anet never nerfs the core problem : Fury giving Might and Herald pulsing Fury.

I would change Incensed Response to instead grant a stack of 3% damage stacking up to 5 times upon inflicting a Critical Strike, and the buff lasting 10 seconds.

Or if we don't wanna rob Core Rev of Might generation, move it to another traitline instead of pushing all the power into Invocation.Give Retribution some love : Make Vicious Reprisal instead gain a few stacks of Might when yu gain Retaliation.

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Be careful when you ask them to nerf incensed because what theyll do is nerf everything affected by incensed in one balance patch by increasing the cooldowns or energy costs of all damaging skills or something ridiculous, then theyll realize that that didnt work so then in the next balance patch theyll nerf incensed, but since they never revert any balance decisions they wont revert any of changes they made in the previous patch

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@Doctor.1384 said:but since they never revert any balance decisions they wont revert any of changes they made in the previous patch

That last part is wrong. They butchered the ability of Phase Traversal to teleport when target was beyond max range (1200 units) just to backpedaling and restoring the ability in less than a week. They also restored some changes made in the mace and axe after fooling around with Mallyx, because either the changes did nothing or made the damage & stacks too powerful. My point: ANet usually doesn't revert changes, but sometimes they do it. But I agree about not asking nerfs (don't worry, they don't read the forums).

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@Yasai.3549 said:I'm all for buffing Facet of Strength and just hardcore dumpstering Incensed Response.

I personally use Incensed Response, and I feel like it's too much, especially when it interacts with Herald in the way it does.Honestly, this is what makes Herald consistently high on the target list for nerfs, being able to self 25 Might in record time.And Anet never nerfs the core problem : Fury giving Might and Herald pulsing Fury.

I would change Incensed Response to instead grant a stack of 3% damage stacking up to 5 times upon inflicting a Critical Strike, and the buff lasting 10 seconds.

Or if we don't wanna rob Core Rev of Might generation, move it to another traitline instead of pushing all the power into Invocation.Give Retribution some love : Make Vicious Reprisal instead gain a few stacks of Might when yu gain Retaliation.

@The Boz.2038 said:Incensed is kind of insane, not gonna lie. No idea how to change it without gutting the PvE Herald.

Incensed Response is already gutted in PvP to the point where it’s not even always taken by all builds anymore. If it’s absolutely gamebreaking in WvW then they can extend the PvP nerfs to WvW, however they haven’t extended it over the past year+ since nearly all things are stronger in WvW and stats are higher as a whole, so this is largely unnecessary. Make sure if you guys are reading the wiki you click the appropriate game modes at the top of the page to see the splits. Everyone in this thread is talking like it doesn’t have a skill split.

Incensed Response is absolutely fine in PvE. Self might is fine in PvE; nothing gamebreaking about it.

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@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@"Yasai.3549" said:

Incensed Response
is already gutted in PvP
to the point where it’s not even always taken by all builds anymore. If it’s absolutely gamebreaking in WvW then they can extend the PvP nerfs to WvW, however they haven’t extended it over the past year+ since nearly all things are stronger in WvW and stats are higher as a whole, so this is largely unnecessary. Make sure if you guys are reading the wiki you click the appropriate game modes at the top of the page to see the splits. Everyone in this thread is talking like it doesn’t have a skill split.

Incensed Response is absolutely fine in PvE. Self might is fine in PvE; nothing gamebreaking about it.

Yo, I've never once mentioned "gamebreaking" though.

It's just simply the fact that the interaction with Pulsing Fury = Might gain is just too much DPS loss if one doesn't pick Incensed Response instead of the other two traits.This alone causes another Herald skill, Facet of Strength, to be totally redundant when it comes to its core usage design of pulsing Might from it.

Note, this is assuming that the Herald, in whatever content, is playing as a solo character, so that means that the usage of Facet of Strength as a Might sharing tool is not being discussed here, rather the fact that a single trait interaction makes Facet of Darkness straight up better than Facet of Strength.

My rant on how Anet decides to repeatedly nerf everything but Fury Pulse > Might interaction is a kneejerk reaction to how this continues to be a viable pick, even if it gets nerfed, because :

  1. Spirit Boon is just so weak when compared to the other two Master traits.
  2. Rapid Flow is pretty pointless on Herald which self pulses Swiftness, so even in PvP, Incensed Response will be a much better option ANYWAY.
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@"The Boz.2038" said:The gamebreaking part is the "this one trait entirely makes redundant an entire skill and trait on its own".

Except it doesn’t. Because Facet of Strength shares to up to 9 allies as well. This is something Incensed Response inherently cant’t do. Different skills have different usages.

Incensed Response
is already gutted in PvP
to the point where it’s not even always taken by all builds anymore. If it’s absolutely gamebreaking in WvW then they can extend the PvP nerfs to WvW, however they haven’t extended it over the past year+ since nearly all things are stronger in WvW and stats are higher as a whole, so this is largely unnecessary. Make sure if you guys are reading the wiki you click the appropriate game modes at the top of the page to see the splits. Everyone in this thread is talking like it doesn’t have a skill split.

Incensed Response is absolutely fine in PvE. Self might is fine in PvE; nothing gamebreaking about it.

It's just simply the fact that the interaction with Pulsing Fury = Might gain is just too much DPS loss if one doesn't pick Incensed Response instead of the other two traits.

This is the nature of traits, though. Not all traits will be equally useful everywhere.

This alone causes another Herald skill, Facet of Strength, to be totally redundant when it comes to its core usage design of pulsing Might from it.

It’s not redundant since it’s designed to Pulse might to up to 9 people, not be as good as Incensed Response + Fury for self might. Completely different purposes, even if similar

**Note, this is assuming that the Herald, in whatever content,

They nerfed it already in PvP which is the only game mode it was arguably overperforming in. Other classes like Chrono can get extemely high uptimes on even stronger boons like Quickness + 25 might in solo content so I’m unsure as to why Revenant should be penalized simply because it has a way to get 25 might.

is playing as a solo character, so that means that the usage of Facet of Strength as a Might sharing tool is not being discussed here, rather the fact that a single trait interaction makes Facet of Darkness straight up better than Facet of Strength.**

You can’t simply ignore the fact that Facet of Strength shares up to 9 people. This is a major part of the core design of the skill. Of course Fury + Incensed Response is going to be better for solo usage since that’s the core design of Fury + IR; it doesn’t have any extra utility the way Facet of Strength does.

My rant on how Anet decides to repeatedly nerf everything but Fury Pulse > Might interaction is a kneejerk reaction to how this continues to be a viable pick, even if it gets nerfed, because :

  1. Spirit Boon is just so weak when compared to the other two Master traits.

Spirit Boon is better for any organized PvE content where you have guaranteed boons, such as raids and fractals. Better for heal revenants, too. Spirit Boon is also better on Condi Herald (and most Mallyx builds) in PvP and is an equal choice for Mallyx builds in WvW.

  1. Rapid Flow is pretty pointless on Herald which self pulses Swiftness, so even in PvP, Incensed Response will be a much better option ANYWAY.

Incensed Response is really only optimal for Power Herald in PvP at this point. Rapid flow isn’t as useful on Herald, but that’s fine because not every spec needs each trait to be equally useful. Rapid Flow is optimal on Renegade in PvP/WvW and a viable option for Core Rev builds and PvE Solo Ren builds.

My point of all this is: yes Incensed Response is strong. For Solo might in many situations it’s fantastic for Revenant and Herald (Herald can’t easily achieve 25 without it), but it’s definitely not always optimal. It depends entirely on the Build and content that is being played, even for Herald. For Renegade, Incensed Response is fairly redundant, though can be useful to have, however, it tends to be outperformed by other options.

Balance is wholistic and has to take into account all applications of a skill. This is why Facet of Strength isn’t as good for solo might as IR is. Does Facet of Strength need a buff? Probably a bit, but this isn’t because Incensed Response is too good. It’s because Facet of Strength isn’t as strong as it should be for one of its core purposes; sharing might.

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@"WorldofBay.8160" said:So Facet of Darkness is the vastly superior Might source on a Herald which makes no senseThe skill grants group-might (up to 10 targets! that's an upkeep of 10 x 4 might!) and the trait grants self-might (more might, but only single target and can be stacked with facet of strength). That's a big difference and that's why both co-exist.

This is a typical "I don't even understand the mechanics of my class, but want buffs." thread.

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@KrHome.1920 said:

@"WorldofBay.8160" said:So Facet of Darkness is the vastly superior Might source on a Herald which makes no senseThe skill grants group-might (up to 10 targets! that's an upkeep of 10 x 4 might!) and the trait grants self-might (more might, but only single target and can be stacked with facet of strength). That's a big difference and that's why both co-exist.

This is a typical "I don't even understand the mechanics of my class, but want buffs." thread.

nope it isn't.

i didn't ask for a buff or a nerf specifically, i want to have to make the decision between might (facet of strength) and fury (facet of darkness) in my energy management even if i run all alone. also you obviously don't get that other classes are there for sharing might and you obviously didn't read that i explicitly want a special synergy between shared empowerment (which pulses 3 might with facet of darkness for 10 people by the way, rendering your whole input senseless) and facet of strength which they don't have.compare fury and 4 stacks of might:+30 power, +30 condi per might = +120 power, +120 condi = 240 stat pointsfury = 20% crit chance = 420 precision = 420 stat pointsboon duration changes this in favor of facet of strength but you can turn facet of darkness off at will while facet of strength has to be active permanently for its bonus.even with 100% boon duration facet of strength just barely beats out facet of darkness in that calculation with 480 for a higher cost (basically doubled).

both share for 5-10 people. both cost 2 energy. but they are far from equally strong.

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Oh, it grants might up to 10 targets? By itself, does it? No other trait involved?Hurm.Looks like the skill info only shows it affecting five targets. You need another trait (albeit a popular one) to affect ten targets. And in that case, why, it might be fair to compare that to Facet of Darkness with Shared Empowerment, which gives ten (apparently this is the bar now) people around you fury and might, while giving you a full stack of 25 might. Additionally, FoStrength is further made clunky by the cast time on its consume, which is the longest consume cast time of all the six facets, and the one it makes the least sense for.

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