So about the reason raids are way harder than others contents like god entities in the game lore — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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So about the reason raids are way harder than others contents like god entities in the game lore

I tough about it, isn't because we are not the commander in raids but a group of average elite aventurers and the hp are way big enough to simulate a relative view of the adventurers skills ? Which explain why a being like a legendary djin is way harder than god or elder dragons to kill simply because even 10 elite adventurer are way weaker than our player ?
Which mean that even if a group of raider do way more damage and are more effiency in game stats than a random commander in his living story episode, it's the reverse in lore wise, where the adventure struggle harder because they do nothing compared to us ?

Comments

  • Silvia.9130Silvia.9130 Member ✭✭✭

    Also, I think you'd get more luck in lore section, to theory craft about these things 🙂

    ѕιℓνια 🌙

  • Most raid bosses are not even close to affecting the main story of the lore and the raid bosses should(?) Be harder than story instance bosses, right?
    The actual gods and EDs are in the main story and everyone are playing the story so they should be ez enough for everyone to kill but in the actual lore they are waaaaay stronger. And in raids bosses are too strong but in actual lore they arent that strong ( other than dhuum,qadim,deimos and some others )

  • knite.1542knite.1542 Member ✭✭✭

    You are probably right mate, that makes sense.

    If your team wins it's because of everyone else. If your team loses, blame the thief.
    ranger is OP but holo is more OP so its fine
    Why do this matter at all, you have people asking you why play so bad as fractal god?
    If they would pull that kitten on me, i would sue instantly. And i have enough time and money to finish that.
    Balance? More like a bunch of random nerfs done by interns.
    They're far from useless...you just got used to busted levels of dmg...welcome back to planet earth
    The first time someone sees you, they're already thinking about kicking you out of the party..........

  • It's quite simple. Personal story and LW is meant for single player so there bosses fight have to be optimally easy. Raids etc are meant to be challenging group content. Lore is not too important in case of instanced group content since you don't play it for story (although there are people who like to play it once to see what's the story behind this content).

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 29, 2020

    While I wouldn't put my foot or hand down as to this being set in stone, the design decision behind raids being harder due to us not being the commander, it does work nicely as explanation.

    My personal view on this matter has been:

    • when playing the personal story or story content, the player is the commander. If we assume there is only 1 commander, this does not conflict with each player assuming his role when on their own (and it even works when being with multiple players in the instance since only the instance owner is addressed as commander in case of story content. Even going so far that in some dual scenarios say against the Manifestation of Self-Doubt in One Path Ends not allowing other players to interfere in the fight)
    • when taking on content on a larger scale, be it meta events, raids, dungeons, fractals, etc. we are part of the pact or individual unit and not the commander.

    This in essence mirrors the living world season 2 story where we in part play as Caith and relive her story. In a way, we are living the commanders story in the living world.

    I'm sure there are minor inconsistencies here and there, but overall this work rather well narrative wise.

  • Tuco.2419Tuco.2419 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    While I wouldn't put my foot or hand down as to this being set in stone, the design decision behind raids being harder due to us not being the commander, it does work nicely as explanation.

    My personal view on this matter has been:

    • when playing the personal story or story content, the player is the commander. If we assume there is only 1 commander, this does not conflict with each player assuming his role when on their own (and it even works when being with multiple players in the instance since only the instance owner is addressed as commander in case of story content. Even going so far that in some dual scenarios say against the Manifestation of Self-Doubt in One Path Ends not allowing other players to interfere in the fight)
    • when taking on content on a larger scale, be it meta events, raids, dungeons, fractals, etc. we are part of the pact or individual unit and not the commander.

    This in essence mirrors the living world season 2 story where we in part play as Caith and relive her story. In a way, we are living the commanders story in the living world.

    I'm sure there are minor inconsistencies here and there, but overall this work rather well narrative wise.

    This is how i think of it and it fits nicely in most situations. In drizlewood coast story we are covertly raiding the heart of the frost citadel while the forces are engaging a front line assault. Outside of the story we are part of that front line assault.

  • The Boz.2038The Boz.2038 Member ✭✭✭

    Conservation of Ninjutsu.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:
    While I wouldn't put my foot or hand down as to this being set in stone, the design decision behind raids being harder due to us not being the commander, it does work nicely as explanation.

    My personal view on this matter has been:

    • when playing the personal story or story content, the player is the commander. If we assume there is only 1 commander, this does not conflict with each player assuming his role when on their own (and it even works when being with multiple players in the instance since only the instance owner is addressed as commander in case of story content. Even going so far that in some dual scenarios say against the Manifestation of Self-Doubt in One Path Ends not allowing other players to interfere in the fight)
    • when taking on content on a larger scale, be it meta events, raids, dungeons, fractals, etc. we are part of the pact or individual unit and not the commander.

    This in essence mirrors the living world season 2 story where we in part play as Caith and relive her story. In a way, we are living the commanders story in the living world.

    I'm sure there are minor inconsistencies here and there, but overall this work rather well narrative wise.

    This isn't quite right. There are multiple points throughout raids where one character is referred to as 'commander'.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2021

    @Sir Alymer.3406 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    While I wouldn't put my foot or hand down as to this being set in stone, the design decision behind raids being harder due to us not being the commander, it does work nicely as explanation.

    My personal view on this matter has been:

    • when playing the personal story or story content, the player is the commander. If we assume there is only 1 commander, this does not conflict with each player assuming his role when on their own (and it even works when being with multiple players in the instance since only the instance owner is addressed as commander in case of story content. Even going so far that in some dual scenarios say against the Manifestation of Self-Doubt in One Path Ends not allowing other players to interfere in the fight)
    • when taking on content on a larger scale, be it meta events, raids, dungeons, fractals, etc. we are part of the pact or individual unit and not the commander.

    This in essence mirrors the living world season 2 story where we in part play as Caith and relive her story. In a way, we are living the commanders story in the living world.

    I'm sure there are minor inconsistencies here and there, but overall this work rather well narrative wise.

    This isn't quite right. There are multiple points throughout raids where one character is referred to as 'commander'.

    Hence why I said:

    I'm sure there are minor inconsistencies here and there, but overall this work rather well narrative wise.

    In a raid squad 1 person is the commander, the other 9 are not. Given this shifts constantly, every one is and every is not the commander at the same time.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There was a good discussion about the subject here.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1003042#Comment_1003042

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    by this idea we can have raid event whit 50%-75% less boss hp in all modes .. (I still can;t complete some CM from start)
    And scroll that event all year.
    nerved wing 1 - two week, some break, 2 weeks break, nerfed wing 2 - 2 weeeks .. break 2 weeks . .wing 3 .. break wing 8 .. break wing 1 ..

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:
    by this idea we can have raid event whit 50%-75% less boss hp in all modes .. (I still can;t complete some CM from start)
    And scroll that event all year.
    nerved wing 1 - two week, some break, 2 weeks break, nerfed wing 2 - 2 weeeks .. break 2 weeks . .wing 3 .. break wing 8 .. break wing 1 ..

    and scale squad size down to 5=50% and 7=75% then to compensate?

  • dusanyu.4057dusanyu.4057 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2021

    game mechanics are separate from game narrative

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    In the story we normally take on gods and dragons with armies on our side. The Commander may be rather talented, but is not THAT strong as an individual. Remember, when they have to duel Balthazar or Joko without support, they lose.
    So if we put this character in a 10 men squad and set them up against Raid encounters, it still fits the difficulty level presented in the game.

    Whether or not the canon Commander actually can be part of a raid team is up for interpretation, there are arguments for both sides and it is kept vague on purpose.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:
    and scale squad size down to 5=50% and 7=75% then to compensate?

    no, there is no any point scale size. Same 10 persons.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2021

    @lare.5129 said:
    by this idea we can have raid event whit 50%-75% less boss hp in all modes .. (I still can;t complete some CM from start)
    And scroll that event all year.
    nerved wing 1 - two week, some break, 2 weeks break, nerfed wing 2 - 2 weeeks .. break 2 weeks . .wing 3 .. break wing 8 .. break wing 1 ..

    What does this suggestion have to do with the lore and possible reasoning behind why raids are harder in comparison to say story missions?

    Again, this topic deals with how it can be explained lore wise. it has absolutely NOTHING to do with difficulty or change thereof. Please don't go off topic and keep difficulty suggestions and easy mode suggestions to their respective topics.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    What does this suggestion have to do with the lore and possible reasoning behind why raids are harder in comparison to say story missions?

    it make raid valid content some time, and people can hold vision on it and extent in in any direction.

    Again, this topic deals with how it can be explained lore wise.

    author say that impossible touch that content as lore, and feel it. So it is my vision ho to make it accelerate for lore players.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Cyninja.2954
    Again, this topic deals with how it can be explained lore wise.

    author say that impossible touch that content as lore, and feel it. So it is my vision ho to make it accelerate for lore players.

    No he didn't.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2021

    @lare.5129 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    What does this suggestion have to do with the lore and possible reasoning behind why raids are harder in comparison to say story missions?

    it make raid valid content some time, and people can hold vision on it and extent in in any direction.

    Again, this topic deals with how it can be explained lore wise.

    author say that impossible touch that content as lore, and feel it. So it is my vision ho to make it accelerate for lore players.

    Please reread what the topic creator wrote. You clearly misunderstood. This topic is NOT about difficulty of raids as in completion but rather as how it relates to lore. No one in this thread at any point discussed a change in difficulty. That would in fact make any explanation or tie in with lore inconsistent.

    Not every topic needs someone reminding us that some players are unable to complete raids, especially when it is unrelated to the discussion.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    may it translation issues, half word not have easy translation for me in topic.

  • Shadowmoon.7986Shadowmoon.7986 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How many god entities has the PC killed solo? Mordimoth was killed while an army was battling his mouth. Balthazar only lost because another god entity intervened. Kraitatorik took two battles and another dragon to kill. Sounds like dhuum must have been a kitten to only go down to 10 mortals. Abaddon was even weaker, only taking 8 heroes and blind cheerleader.

  • @lare.5129 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    What does this suggestion have to do with the lore and possible reasoning behind why raids are harder in comparison to say story missions?

    it make raid valid content some time, and people can hold vision on it and extent in in any direction.

    Again, this topic deals with how it can be explained lore wise.

    author say that impossible touch that content as lore, and feel it. So it is my vision ho to make it accelerate for lore players.

    I just say my point of view on how Aenet explained that raids were way harder in gameplay even if the entities that we fight are less dangerous and powerful than the god like entities of the main quests.

    Which is because we are not the commanders in raids but random veterans adventurers.

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    @WindBlade.8749 said:
    I just say my point of view on how Aenet explained that raids were way harder in gameplay even if the entities that we fight are less dangerous and powerful than the god like entities of the main quests.

    In raids we have less assistance than in the main story. No Aurene, no army. Just 10 adventurers. Of course it's more difficult then.

    Which is because we are not the commanders in raids but random veterans adventurers.

    That is not true. Benett from Bloodstone Fen thanks the Commander in LS3, if the PC took part in the raids rescuing him. If not, he has different dialog. So the Commander _can _canonically be part of the raids, but they don't have to be. Both versions are basically canon.