Community: we don't like stealth thief builds

Anet: "Okay, here's a nerf across the ENTIRE CLASS. Not once, not twice, BUT THRICE. You might want to specify what is it, exactly, that thief is allowed to do even moderately well?

Because currently, it won't be damage. It won't be dueling. It won't be +1'ing. And it most definitely won't be roaming.

Well it feel more like they are addressing different arguable concerns. I mean, people wanted plasma nerfed since 2013 already. And some players were arguing that shortbow was mandatory and, well, it seem that it's no longer mandatory after this "patch"...

I wouldn't say that essence sap and signet of agility are "bad" nerfs.

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Well it feel more like they are addressing different arguable concerns. I mean, people wanted plasma nerfed since 2013 already. And some players were arguing that shortbow was mandatory and, well, it seem that it's no longer mandatory after this "patch"...

I wouldn't say that essence sap and signet of agility are "bad" nerfs.

Considering how slow the projectile speed and cast time for Sap are, the nerf seems slightly overreactive. Consume Plasma I can understand, but Signet of Agility AND IA together seem too much w/o compensation.

wheezing laughter

Okay, okay, do SA next

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Well it feel more like they are addressing different arguable concerns. I mean, people wanted plasma nerfed since 2013 already. And some players were arguing that shortbow was mandatory and, well, it seem that it's no longer mandatory after this "patch"...

I wouldn't say that

essence sap

and

signet of agility

are "bad" nerfs.

You're looking at it the wrong way. You see it all together when ANet probably looked at all 4 skill alone.

• Sap, even after the nerf might deal more damage than the revenant's version.
• Signet of agility will still have one of the most powerful signet active in game (The cleansing of 3 conditions on 5 target is already quite good as a signet active, the endurance might have felt to big of an advantage. Without forgeting that the passive is also attractive by itself.)
• IA is the main if not only reason thief take shortbow as a mandatory weapon (I don't think increasing the cost was the best idea, but it might force thiefs to look into other weaponset, which isn't a "bad" thing.)
• As for plasma, it was overdue (well again i'm not sure that was the way they should have adressed it, as a bundle, even after the nerf it's still imbalanced compared to most other bundles)

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:Well it feel more like they are addressing different arguable concerns. I mean, people wanted plasma nerfed since 2013 already. And some players were arguing that shortbow was mandatory and, well, it seem that it's no longer mandatory after this "patch"...

I wouldn't say that

essence sap

and

signet of agility

are "bad" nerfs.

• Sap, even after the nerf might deal more damage than the revenant's version.
• Signet of agility will still have one of the most powerful signet active in game (The cleansing of 3 conditions on 5 target is already quite good as a signet active, the endurance might have felt to big of an advantage. Without forgeting that the passive is also attractive by itself.)
• IA is the main if not only reason thief take shortbow as a mandatory weapon (I don't think increasing the cost was the best idea, but it might force thiefs to look into other weaponset, which isn't a "bad" thing.)
• As for plasma, it was overdue (well again i'm not sure that was the way they should have adressed it, as a bundle, even after the nerf it's still imbalanced compared to most other bundles)

Looking at each of these skills in a vacuum is not the way to go. How often do you realistically cleanse conditions from all 5, let alone 3-4, allies? How often does Sap actually reach its target with all the blocks, reflects and evade frames revenant alone has access to?

Mind that people get reminded thief only has Steal and its associated skill(s) as a class mechanic. To compensate, it obviously has to be more powerful than i.e. Guardian F1-F3 as standalones.

There might've been a time and place for these changes, but not all at once.

I mean the nerfs, in a vacuum, make sense. Consume Plasma was stupidly busted. Essence Sap, idk, if this is just a bugfix disguised as a nerf (it did more damage than intended), then sure. Infilitrators Arrow is one skill that carries the entire class, it is too good. Signet of agility, eh, its an ok nerf I guess? It wasnt even a mandatory utility, so it feels a bit odd, but I digress.

My worry is that theyre just planning to make thief worse without compensation. Because that wont work. Either thief moves faster than everyone else and is mandatory, or it doesnt, and is unplayable and worth reporting for. If you want to reduce thieves reliance on being the fastest, they have to have something else to have a reason to be picked.

@UNOwen.7132 said:I mean the nerfs, in a vacuum, make sense. Consume Plasma was stupidly busted. Essence Sap, idk, if this is just a bugfix disguised as a nerf (it did more damage than intended), then sure. Infilitrators Arrow is one skill that carries the entire class, it is too good. Signet of agility, eh, its an ok nerf I guess? It wasnt even a mandatory utility, so it feels a bit odd, but I digress.

My worry is that theyre just planning to make thief worse without compensation. Because that wont work. Either thief moves faster than everyone else and is mandatory, or it doesnt, and is unplayable and worth reporting for. If you want to reduce thieves reliance on being the fastest, they have to have something else to have a reason to be picked.

they are still fastest and lets face it.. daredevil is crazy strong! amazing burst crazy mobility.. it also has stealth and its frustrating to fight daredevil...if im honest this patch as a whole is even a buff for daredevil because its counter classes took a bigger hit.. and right now its even harder to counter a daredevilrenegade? not only they removed this class from the game..deleting the celestial amu is deleting every trace left of this class.. and heal warrior heals got halved.. daredevil sorry not only gonna stay meta its gonna be at the top of it..

@noiwk.2760 said:if im honest this patch as a whole is even a buff for daredevil because its counter classes took a bigger hit

Dragonhunter took literally no hit.

@noiwk.2760 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:I mean the nerfs, in a vacuum, make sense. Consume Plasma was stupidly busted. Essence Sap, idk, if this is just a bugfix disguised as a nerf (it did more damage than intended), then sure. Infilitrators Arrow is one skill that carries the entire class, it is too good. Signet of agility, eh, its an ok nerf I guess? It wasnt even a mandatory utility, so it feels a bit odd, but I digress.

My worry is that theyre just planning to make thief worse without compensation. Because that wont work. Either thief moves faster than everyone else and is mandatory, or it doesnt, and is unplayable and worth reporting for. If you want to reduce thieves reliance on being the fastest, they have to have something else to have a reason to be picked.

Its plausible they are. But then the change doesnt really do anything.

if im honest this patch as a whole is even a buff for daredevil because its counter classes took a bigger hit.. and right now its even harder to counter a daredevil

Why would you "counter" a +1 and decap bot? Theyre not gonna fight you in an even scenario. Daredevil is weaker, dont mistake it, it just doesnt really matter.

renegade? not only they removed this class from the game..deleting the celestial amu is deleting every trace left of this class.. and heal warrior heals got halved.. daredevil sorry not only gonna stay meta its gonna be at the top of it..

Thief is a mandatory class, but its never "at the top of it". Its a utility class that makes the rest of your team better.

@UNOwen.7132 said:I mean the nerfs, in a vacuum, make sense. Consume Plasma was stupidly busted. Essence Sap, idk, if this is just a bugfix disguised as a nerf (it did more damage than intended), then sure. Infilitrators Arrow is one skill that carries the entire class, it is too good. Signet of agility, eh, its an ok nerf I guess? It wasnt even a mandatory utility, so it feels a bit odd, but I digress.

My worry is that theyre just planning to make thief worse without compensation. Because that wont work. Either thief moves faster than everyone else and is mandatory, or it doesnt, and is unplayable and worth reporting for. If you want to reduce thieves reliance on being the fastest, they have to have something else to have a reason to be picked.

This is at the essence of my worries: being pigeonholed into some sub-par cheese burst build where I always have to run both Trickery and Shadow Arts to remain somewhat relevant.

Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

@Dantheman.3589 said:Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

Why would you play a poor duelist who performs even worse in teamfights? Thiefs purpose hasnt changed, its still a decap and +1 bot. And there is nothing that made D/P specifically worse at that than other builds (And Deadeye is not going to work as long as projectile destruction and reflect is as abundant as it is, and DJ is as unhittable as it is).

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

You wouldn’t play a poor duelist- you would be playing a build that hard counters dh and power revs that has much improved mobility from d/p builds that can not only 1v1 better than other s/d builds but do more damage- just how Sa dp would do at least as much damage as Da dp, but with much improved sustainEdit: I forgot to specify, but I’m think acro s/d is gonna take the poor Da sd builds place- becuz acro does more damage as long as your zerker amulet and has more utility- plus it can farm dh and if traited have some of the best condi cleanse in the game.

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@noiwk.2760 said:if im honest this patch as a whole is even a buff for daredevil because its counter classes took a bigger hit

and thats regretful ... gurdian werent not nerfed in pvp.. and its sad... burn DH with its traps is getitng on my nerve.. .

I won't say that this is the best way to shift the meta away from SA builds, but this probably will do so to some extent since this will make Channeled Vigor a better choice than Hide in Shadows for many situations as it offsets some of the mobility nerfs.

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@noiwk.2760 said:you only prove you are a kitten who think you can show off titles.. ok .. you ahve titles so everything you say is the truth.. well sorry mate.. 99.9999999999% of the people here who dont play thief dont like to fight against thief .. thief is a problem for everyone here even for bigger players than you are so take your arrogant approach with your meaningless titles and go bully someone else ..

if he was more op .. doesnt mean its weak now.. you can not compare to what it was but to the builds you have currently !its like speaking about spell breaker.. how op it was . and look now? or scourge? but its not how to think about it.. the fact is thief is still meta.. daredevil is still very strong class and im sorry you disagree. but thief dont need to have super mobility and still be able to kill every class..

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

Youre playing thief. That means youre playing a poor duelist at best. How exactly do you intend to counter DH, who still has better damage, defense, CC and sustain? Youd still be a pure decap and +1 bot that avoids 1v1s like the plague, so there is no real advantage to D/P. Its not like you get more mobility because IA is still the best movement you have.

@noiwk.2760 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@noiwk.2760 said:you only prove you are a kitten who think you can show off titles.. ok .. you ahve titles so everything you say is the truth.. well sorry mate.. 99.9999999999% of the people here who dont play thief dont like to fight against thief .. thief is a problem for everyone here even for bigger players than you are so take your arrogant approach with your meaningless titles and go bully someone else ..

The thing is, Thief isn't killing every class. Thief is another class that faces counters and weaknesses from multiple other professions. The easiest way to kill thief is literally one of the dozens of skills that forces a thief into revealed, however people don't have enough brain cells to bring those anymore usually, they just complain when a thief goes into stealth. I can think of 100 different counters for thief, but if you don't ever play it then you'll never discover them. We die in 2 hits, but you sure don't see us asking for more vitality or toughness. We just want these nerfs to stop and to see some added damage because our current damage is rather pitiful.

@darren.1064 said:

@noiwk.2760 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@noiwk.2760 said:you only prove you are a kitten who think you can show off titles.. ok .. you ahve titles so everything you say is the truth.. well sorry mate.. 99.9999999999% of the people here who dont play thief dont like to fight against thief .. thief is a problem for everyone here even for bigger players than you are so take your arrogant approach with your meaningless titles and go bully someone else ..

then ill say it again.. the issue i have with thieves is stealth... and unless stealth is finally reworked.. thieves are problem..

and sorry not every class/build can have reveal .. if they give every class a decent reveal skills eyah i wont have problem with thieves dont get me wrong i dont want to see thieves as bad class.. i want rework for steralth :)

@noiwk.2760 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@noiwk.2760 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@noiwk.2760 said:you only prove you are a kitten who think you can show off titles.. ok .. you ahve titles so everything you say is the truth.. well sorry mate.. 99.9999999999% of the people here who dont play thief dont like to fight against thief .. thief is a problem for everyone here even for bigger players than you are so take your arrogant approach with your meaningless titles and go bully someone else ..

What class do you play?

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

Dh can 1v1 at least in ranked, but it’s not a 1v1 build. Keep in mind s/d daredevil is and has been possibly the best counter to these dh builds for multiple seasons at least according to multiple plat-legend guards and thief players.

@darren.1064 said:

@noiwk.2760 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@noiwk.2760 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@noiwk.2760 said:you only prove you are a kitten who think you can show off titles.. ok .. you ahve titles so everything you say is the truth.. well sorry mate.. 99.9999999999% of the people here who dont play thief dont like to fight against thief .. thief is a problem for everyone here even for bigger players than you are so take your arrogant approach with your meaningless titles and go bully someone else ..

a few.. and 1 of them got rightfully nerfed.. i think it got over nerfed but its fine.. time to play more classes.. i play reaper/core necro (power cause condi is cancer)i play speall breaker but currently warriors are shit so i played heal warrior which got over nerfed.. . i play rev both herald and renegade which also got over nerfed today..so overall i took more nerfs from you .. but i think they were needed... im happy about might make right cause its right direciton but i think physicall skills need to get their damage back for warrior to be a fighter again .. and improve self might aplication for sustain

@darren.1064 said:

@noiwk.2760 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@noiwk.2760 said:

@JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

@darren.1064 said:

@noiwk.2760 said:you only prove you are a kitten who think you can show off titles.. ok .. you ahve titles so everything you say is the truth.. well sorry mate.. 99.9999999999% of the people here who dont play thief dont like to fight against thief .. thief is a problem for everyone here even for bigger players than you are so take your arrogant approach with your meaningless titles and go bully someone else ..

Dude why would you try so hard to argue with ppl who obviously have no idea about the game let alone the specializations or mechanics of certain classes lmao

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Dantheman.3589 said:Stealth thief builds didn’t specifically get nerfed, but I think it’s more likely for sw/d build to take thief place- ie deadeye and s/d daredevil. These builds can sometimes win 1v1s and can snowball team fights where things like dhs and power revs might be.

I mean of course DH is not a 1v1 build. But Thief is not a 1v1 class. And when it comes to 1v1ing, DH still does a lot better. Thief is a counter in +1 scenarios, not 1v1 scenarios. And its good at that because it can rip crucial boons from DH, interrupt their high cast time valuable skills with ease, and mess them up with blinds. But, in a 1v1 scenario that doesnt save the thief. He still loses. There is a reason DH was fine in the 2v2 seasons (though not top tier) and thief was either the only, or one of the only two classes that were unplayable.