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Constructive Criticism About Profession Development

Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

I hope this doesn't come off as disrespectful, but everything related to professions has been the weakest part of development. Professions should be up there at the number #1 spot for improvements and maintenance, but they never are. I think that Anet should sincerely consider beefing up the profession related teams, because that's the root of all issues.

Ty for reading!

Comments

  • paShadoWn.5723paShadoWn.5723 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 3, 2020

    You see, Anet releases everything perfect and working as intended. Then stupid whiners concerned players request some changes.
    And that is where cascade breakdown begins... for when you change perfection, you can only ruin it.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They go back on there own views a lot and often forget new effects that they just added in as soon as they added them in.
    Anet is in effect what seems to be a random group doing random things with no real point when it comes to balancing.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would say that it's a bit more complicated than a lack of maintenance.

    The issue is more that the balance focus to much on the core tenets of each profession, leading to imbalance by over-emphasys of those core tenets. Most things are good when in an healthy amount, however when you put the concept of healthy amount behind you, it become imbalanced.

    The necromancer is the perfect example of that. Number wise and weaknesses wise it's more or less balanced, however he used to have different options (less in line with it's thematic) that have been discarded in favor of it's thematic option. And this lead to imbalance.

    • Fear: At release the necromancer had 3 sources of fear, Downstate, Staff#5 and Doom. Nowaday, it's downstate, staff#5, 1 in the shroud mechanism, Spectral ring, lich#3 and stability conversion. Not to mention the increased amount of traits effects supporting fear. Let's be honest, it's no longer an healthy amount.
    • Boon conversion: The necromancer used to have half boon conversion and half boon rip. Now, only a single boon riping effect remain while the number of boon conversion effects have been excessively increased to keep in check the growing amount of boons on other professions. Let's be honest, it's no longer an healthy amount.
    • Life leeching: The necromancer used to have some life leeching ability but it's been increased so much that it even hinder it's ability to deal damage. And yet the mechanism still feel lackluster. Let's be honest, it's no longer an healthy amount and in this case maybe the mechanism should have been looked at.
    • The shroud: The shroud used to be a very pale shadow of what we got right now. It used to be better to flash shroud for damage and stay in shroud for defense. Now you need to stay in shroud for everything. Let's be honest, it's no longer an healthy amount.
    • Area denial: The necromancer used to only rely on well and staff for area denial, now it's everywhere and scourge pushed area denial to the next level. Let's be honest, it's no longer an healthy amount.
    • ... etc.

    Keep in mind that the necromancer here is just an example, every profession got the same treatment. Every profession have been bloated with their own thematical tools to an unhealthy amount.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2020

    I think it has been mentioned several times over the years about why Gw2 has such horrible balancing :

    It doesn't occur nearly as often enough, and problems are addressed in a "beat around the bush" sort of wishy-washy approach.
    Anet never targets the core problem directly, and put power back into the Professions in other places where they are severely lacking.

    They just do some wonky "AoE nerf" on everything BUT the problem, and leave it as is when everything has been hammered down, leaving many builds in a crippled, barely functional state.

    • A Balance Update every 6 months is not enough.
    • Numbers change every few months is not enough.
    • "300 changes" which is nothing but coefficient changes is not balancing, its nerfing, especially when yu leave several other problems floating around to rise up.
    • "Balance notes" with only 2 or 3 sets numbers changes per Professions is not a Balance Pass.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    They just do some wonky "AoE nerf" on everything BUT the problem, and leave it as is when everything has been hammered down, leaving many builds in a crippled, barely functional state.

    Yeah, this has been a problem going back to GW1 days. They nerf everything that supports the problem rather than the problem itself, sometimes rendering those supporting states into a level where they're now only useful when used to support the problem, and when they eventually grudgingly address the problem directly, the supporting skills they nerfed along the way are left in a subpar state.

    At least we don't have professions being nerfed because of what some other profession is doing using their skills as a secondary profession.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    They just do some wonky "AoE nerf" on everything BUT the problem, and leave it as is when everything has been hammered down, leaving many builds in a crippled, barely functional state.

    Yeah, this has been a problem going back to GW1 days. They nerf everything that supports the problem rather than the problem itself, sometimes rendering those supporting states into a level where they're now only useful when used to support the problem, and when they eventually grudgingly address the problem directly, the supporting skills they nerfed along the way are left in a subpar state.

    At least we don't have professions being nerfed because of what some other profession is doing using their skills as a secondary profession

    Balance in GW1 would deserve a Nobel Prize for development compared to GW2, do remember that many core devs left Anet since then.....

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2020

    Theme > performance with this game and the thinking of it's devs. Nothing can change that because of the fundamental decision to abandon a rigid team structure for group PVE content. It's just the price we must pay for freedom of having choices to play how we want. If players want to have a greater impact on the development of the game ... they too must also make that conceptual transition from performance-based to theme-based.

    Complaining about performance gaps between classes in PVE is a road to nowhere.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2020

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    Yeah, this has been a problem going back to GW1 days. They nerf everything that supports the problem rather than the problem itself, sometimes rendering those supporting states into a level where they're now only useful when used to support the problem, and when they eventually grudgingly address the problem directly, the supporting skills they nerfed along the way are left in a subpar state.

    At least we don't have professions being nerfed because of what some other profession is doing using their skills as a secondary profession

    Balance in GW1 would deserve a Nobel Prize for development compared to GW2, do remember that many core devs left Anet since then.....

    Yep, at least it was easy to identify which skills were problematic from a PvP point of view. That said, I do agree with draxynnic that being nerfed due to another profession having imbalanced result with your profession's skills was annoying.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Every thing keeps getting thrown out for new things over and over. This is true for classes and game play.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • @Jski.6180 said:
    They go back on there own views a lot and often forget new effects that they just added in as soon as they added them in.
    Anet is in effect what seems to be a random group doing random things with no real point when it comes to balancing.

    Like what?

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VocalThought.9835 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    They go back on there own views a lot and often forget new effects that they just added in as soon as they added them in.
    Anet is in effect what seems to be a random group doing random things with no real point when it comes to balancing.

    Like what?

    Update - December 11, 2018
    "Following up on the previous balance release, we're continuing to update weapon traits to offer more meaningful options when players are not using the related weapons while also enhancing those weapons' playstyles if the player is using them. In particular, we updated a fair amount of warrior weapon traits and a few remaining traits in other professions.

    This update reworks all traits that react automatically to incoming control effects by applying control effects on the attacker. Traits that immediately punish players for successfully landing their skills, particularly when they are not very visible, teach the wrong things. The reworked traits are intended to encourage more active play and to provide new opportunities for the defender without outright punishing the attacker.

    In addition to crowd-control trait reworks, this update also addresses traits that deal instant damage and how they affect the game. The large majority of these traits have had their base damage increased while removing their ability to critically hit in order to improve pacing and reduce time-to-kill in competitive game modes. Certain traits that serve as the main source of a build's damage in both PvE and competitive modes have been modified so that they require critical hits in order to deal maximum damage, giving conditions like weakness more value.

    Finally, we're making changes to encourage more variety in boon-based support builds. To start, we are opening up select skills for different professions that will allow them to share boons directly with up to ten allies. In addition, we'll be reducing which boons mesmers and their specializations can apply since chronomancer is currently stifling other options due to its ability to easily apply all boons with Signet of Inspiration. Our goal here is to give value to different professions and specializations by making them all adept at applying specific boons to their allies so that multiple professions are needed in order to cover all boons."

    Read that.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • @Jski.6180 said:

    @VocalThought.9835 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    They go back on there own views a lot and often forget new effects that they just added in as soon as they added them in.
    Anet is in effect what seems to be a random group doing random things with no real point when it comes to balancing.

    Like what?

    Update - December 11, 2018
    "Following up on the previous balance release, we're continuing to update weapon traits to offer more meaningful options when players are not using the related weapons while also enhancing those weapons' playstyles if the player is using them. In particular, we updated a fair amount of warrior weapon traits and a few remaining traits in other professions.

    This update reworks all traits that react automatically to incoming control effects by applying control effects on the attacker. Traits that immediately punish players for successfully landing their skills, particularly when they are not very visible, teach the wrong things. The reworked traits are intended to encourage more active play and to provide new opportunities for the defender without outright punishing the attacker.

    In addition to crowd-control trait reworks, this update also addresses traits that deal instant damage and how they affect the game. The large majority of these traits have had their base damage increased while removing their ability to critically hit in order to improve pacing and reduce time-to-kill in competitive game modes. Certain traits that serve as the main source of a build's damage in both PvE and competitive modes have been modified so that they require critical hits in order to deal maximum damage, giving conditions like weakness more value.

    Finally, we're making changes to encourage more variety in boon-based support builds. To start, we are opening up select skills for different professions that will allow them to share boons directly with up to ten allies. In addition, we'll be reducing which boons mesmers and their specializations can apply since chronomancer is currently stifling other options due to its ability to easily apply all boons with Signet of Inspiration. Our goal here is to give value to different professions and specializations by making them all adept at applying specific boons to their allies so that multiple professions are needed in order to cover all boons."

    Read that.

    What's random about that. It seems very methodical.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 7, 2020

    @VocalThought.9835 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:

    @VocalThought.9835 said:

    @Jski.6180 said:
    They go back on there own views a lot and often forget new effects that they just added in as soon as they added them in.
    Anet is in effect what seems to be a random group doing random things with no real point when it comes to balancing.

    Like what?

    Update - December 11, 2018
    "Following up on the previous balance release, we're continuing to update weapon traits to offer more meaningful options when players are not using the related weapons while also enhancing those weapons' playstyles if the player is using them. In particular, we updated a fair amount of warrior weapon traits and a few remaining traits in other professions.

    This update reworks all traits that react automatically to incoming control effects by applying control effects on the attacker. Traits that immediately punish players for successfully landing their skills, particularly when they are not very visible, teach the wrong things. The reworked traits are intended to encourage more active play and to provide new opportunities for the defender without outright punishing the attacker.

    In addition to crowd-control trait reworks, this update also addresses traits that deal instant damage and how they affect the game. The large majority of these traits have had their base damage increased while removing their ability to critically hit in order to improve pacing and reduce time-to-kill in competitive game modes. Certain traits that serve as the main source of a build's damage in both PvE and competitive modes have been modified so that they require critical hits in order to deal maximum damage, giving conditions like weakness more value.

    Finally, we're making changes to encourage more variety in boon-based support builds. To start, we are opening up select skills for different professions that will allow them to share boons directly with up to ten allies. In addition, we'll be reducing which boons mesmers and their specializations can apply since chronomancer is currently stifling other options due to its ability to easily apply all boons with Signet of Inspiration. Our goal here is to give value to different professions and specializations by making them all adept at applying specific boons to their allies so that multiple professions are needed in order to cover all boons."

    Read that.

    What's random about that. It seems very methodical.

    To buff boons to hit 10 targets then to remove it?

    As well to nerf lesser used effects and skill / weapons over all removing?

    As well a "weapon traits to offer more meaningful options when players are not using the related weapons while also enhancing those weapons' playstyles if the player is using them" yet nothing new for over 2 years to update thoughts weapons beyond this update (see transmutation on ele core weapons and only having one trait).

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2019-03-05#Elementalist
    "In this update, and in the future, we're looking to enhance the support role of tempests through boons, healing, and cleansing. Specific to today's release, we've adjusted the tempest's support through its skills, shouts, and traits. With this in mind, we've added some classic elemental attunement support to each of the shouts, and we've altered Tempestuous Aria so that its support functions are easier to access for tempest players."

    They just nefed it hard.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    They just do some wonky "AoE nerf" on everything BUT the problem, and leave it as is when everything has been hammered down, leaving many builds in a crippled, barely functional state.

    Yeah, this has been a problem going back to GW1 days. They nerf everything that supports the problem rather than the problem itself, sometimes rendering those supporting states into a level where they're now only useful when used to support the problem, and when they eventually grudgingly address the problem directly, the supporting skills they nerfed along the way are left in a subpar state.

    At least we don't have professions being nerfed because of what some other profession is doing using their skills as a secondary profession

    Balance in GW1 would deserve a Nobel Prize for development compared to GW2, do remember that many core devs left Anet since then.....

    I don't disagree, but the point was that the tendency was still there: the GW1 balance team also had a tendency to avoid nerfing the key skill of an overperforming build, nerf all the supporting skills instead, finally admit that the key skill needs to be nerfed after all, and then leave the supporting skills with nerfs that they probably didn't deserve when considered outside of that specific overperforming build.

    @Jski.6180 said:

    Finally, we're making changes to encourage more variety in boon-based support builds. To start, we are opening up select skills for different professions that will allow them to share boons directly with up to ten allies. In addition, we'll be reducing which boons mesmers and their specializations can apply since chronomancer is currently stifling other options due to its ability to easily apply all boons with Signet of Inspiration. Our goal here is to give value to different professions and specializations by making them all adept at applying specific boons to their allies so that multiple professions are needed in order to cover all boons."

    Read that.

    To play devil's advocate, one change contradicting another could be a matter of something that they thought was a good idea at the time turning out to have negative consequences they didn't foresee.

    It is worth noting that, in this case, the nerf only really applies to WvW. sPvP rarely hits the limit anyway, while in PvE it was buffed to always be 10-man without the need for a trait.

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    They just do some wonky "AoE nerf" on everything BUT the problem, and leave it as is when everything has been hammered down, leaving many builds in a crippled, barely functional state.

    Yeah, this has been a problem going back to GW1 days. They nerf everything that supports the problem rather than the problem itself, sometimes rendering those supporting states into a level where they're now only useful when used to support the problem, and when they eventually grudgingly address the problem directly, the supporting skills they nerfed along the way are left in a subpar state.

    At least we don't have professions being nerfed because of what some other profession is doing using their skills as a secondary profession

    Balance in GW1 would deserve a Nobel Prize for development compared to GW2, do remember that many core devs left Anet since then.....

    I don't disagree, but the point was that the tendency was still there: the GW1 balance team also had a tendency to avoid nerfing the key skill of an overperforming build, nerf all the supporting skills instead, finally admit that the key skill needs to be nerfed after all, and then leave the supporting skills with nerfs that they probably didn't deserve when considered outside of that specific overperforming build.

    @Jski.6180 said:

    Finally, we're making changes to encourage more variety in boon-based support builds. To start, we are opening up select skills for different professions that will allow them to share boons directly with up to ten allies. In addition, we'll be reducing which boons mesmers and their specializations can apply since chronomancer is currently stifling other options due to its ability to easily apply all boons with Signet of Inspiration. Our goal here is to give value to different professions and specializations by making them all adept at applying specific boons to their allies so that multiple professions are needed in order to cover all boons."

    Read that.

    To play devil's advocate, one change contradicting another could be a matter of something that they thought was a good idea at the time turning out to have negative consequences they didn't foresee.

    It is worth noting that, in this case, the nerf only really applies to WvW. sPvP rarely hits the limit anyway, while in PvE it was buffed to always be 10-man without the need for a trait.

    I mean spvp its not important as there never going to be more then 5 targets. Wvw is THE big combat game play so it fits to have the biggest target skill for there effect. Its more importer in wvw then pve to hit 10 targets one way or another both support AND attk.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2020

    The complaint Anet changes their minds by taking things out they put in ... that doesn't make sense ... you would rather they just leave unworkable ideas in the game? Sounds like complaining for the sake of complaining to give the appearance of incompetence. Even if that's the case, demonstrating some incompetence doesn't change how Anet wants to change the game.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    I would say that it's a bit more complicated than a lack of maintenance.

    The issue is more that the balance focus to much on the core tenets of each profession, leading to imbalance by over-emphasys of those core tenets. Most things are good when in an healthy amount, however when you put the concept of healthy amount behind you, it become imbalanced.

    The necromancer is the perfect example of that. Number wise and weaknesses wise it's more or less balanced, however he used to have different options (less in line with it's thematic) that have been discarded in favor of it's thematic option. And this lead to imbalance.

    • Fear: At release the necromancer had 3 sources of fear, Downstate, Staff#5 and Doom. Nowaday, it's downstate, staff#5, 1 in the shroud mechanism, Spectral ring, lich#3 and stability conversion. Not to mention the increased amount of traits effects supporting fear. Let's be honest, it's no longer an healthy amount.
    • Boon conversion: The necromancer used to have half boon conversion and half boon rip. Now, only a single boon riping effect remain while the number of boon conversion effects have been excessively increased to keep in check the growing amount of boons on other professions. Let's be honest, it's no longer an healthy amount.
    • Life leeching: The necromancer used to have some life leeching ability but it's been increased so much that it even hinder it's ability to deal damage. And yet the mechanism still feel lackluster. Let's be honest, it's no longer an healthy amount and in this case maybe the mechanism should have been looked at.
    • The shroud: The shroud used to be a very pale shadow of what we got right now. It used to be better to flash shroud for damage and stay in shroud for defense. Now you need to stay in shroud for everything. Let's be honest, it's no longer an healthy amount.
    • Area denial: The necromancer used to only rely on well and staff for area denial, now it's everywhere and scourge pushed area denial to the next level. Let's be honest, it's no longer an healthy amount.
    • ... etc.

    Keep in mind that the necromancer here is just an example, every profession got the same treatment. Every profession have been bloated with their own thematical tools to an unhealthy amount.

    Hopefully I can respond to all this because I don't agree necromancer was ever health or had a healthy amount of anything. Necromancer from my perspective has been the worst balanced and designed class up until revenant came out. If I'm misunderstanding you please clarify what you mean.

    Fear: You're talking 2012-2013 because the vast majority of GW2's life necromancer has had little fear. Way too much dedication to it in traits and even at it's most prevalent, which wasn't today, it was lacking. The knockdown trait in death, the fear of death trait used to cause fear when you downed, spectral wall started as vulnerability but that didn't last. We lost 2 and gained 2 sources of fear.

    Boon conversation: Necromancer used to corrupt all boons with corrupt boon, used to have a signet trait that would remove boons on activation, had boon corruption on scepter auto. The issue here isn't boon corruption in my opinion. Scourge showed us that they have more options. I would argue all of necromancer's boon removal should be boon corruption and what condition it gets corrupted into could be narrow specific conditions half the time. My reasoning is to have potential trait synergy. Boon removal used to be higher for core necromancer but not that much. The signet trait used to be boon corruption if I remember correctly. Seems much of it was moved to scourge. Boons and boon removal is hotly debated though.

    Life Leeching: I'm not sure what you're point is here. Life leeching was always pretty bad on necromancer. Only revenant really made it work for themselves and that seems to be because arena net isn't afraid to give it real power behind it.... not only that it didn't used to function in shroud at all.

    Shroud: Shroud flashing was not good design. It discouraged the player from truly engaging with their mechanic. But after 8 years I still think shroud is a bad mechanic that can only be poorly balanced. If shroud flashing was more you enter for 5-10 seconds and pop out then it would have been better. But it wasn't. It was literally you get out as soon as possible because it was just that bad. Reaper does do the 5-10 second in and out of shroud. And it's more engaging than core necromancer. You should engage with your unique mechanic. That's part of the draw to play the class. The fact that we didn't was not a good thing.

    Area Denial: mmm. I don't have an opinion on this one. I'll have to think about it. There's no denying that necromancer is far far better at area denial than it used to be. Although 10 second recharge sand Savant with crippling pulses I'd say was its peek.. But I don't see this as a bad thing or a good thing. Perhaps you can elaborate on what your issue with it is?

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    I would say that it's a bit more complicated than a lack of maintenance.

    The issue is more that the balance focus to much on the core tenets of each profession, leading to imbalance by over-emphasys of those core tenets. Most things are good when in an healthy amount, however when you put the concept of healthy amount behind you, it become imbalanced.

    The necromancer is the perfect example of that. Number wise and weaknesses wise it's more or less balanced, however he used to have different options (less in line with it's thematic) that have been discarded in favor of it's thematic option. And this lead to imbalance.

    • Fear: At release the necromancer had 3 sources of fear, Downstate, Staff#5 and Doom. Nowaday, it's downstate, staff#5, 1 in the shroud mechanism, Spectral ring, lich#3 and stability conversion. Not to mention the increased amount of traits effects supporting fear. Let's be honest, it's no longer an healthy amount.
    • Boon conversion: The necromancer used to have half boon conversion and half boon rip. Now, only a single boon riping effect remain while the number of boon conversion effects have been excessively increased to keep in check the growing amount of boons on other professions. Let's be honest, it's no longer an healthy amount.
    • Life leeching: The necromancer used to have some life leeching ability but it's been increased so much that it even hinder it's ability to deal damage. And yet the mechanism still feel lackluster. Let's be honest, it's no longer an healthy amount and in this case maybe the mechanism should have been looked at.
    • The shroud: The shroud used to be a very pale shadow of what we got right now. It used to be better to flash shroud for damage and stay in shroud for defense. Now you need to stay in shroud for everything. Let's be honest, it's no longer an healthy amount.
    • Area denial: The necromancer used to only rely on well and staff for area denial, now it's everywhere and scourge pushed area denial to the next level. Let's be honest, it's no longer an healthy amount.
    • ... etc.

    Keep in mind that the necromancer here is just an example, every profession got the same treatment. Every profession have been bloated with their own thematical tools to an unhealthy amount.

    Hopefully I can respond to all this because I don't agree necromancer was ever health or had a healthy amount of anything. Necromancer from my perspective has been the worst balanced and designed class up until revenant came out. If I'm misunderstanding you please clarify what you mean.

    I never said that it was ever in an healthy state, just that by adding over and over again more of it's "tool" it has become unhealthy(er). And that I think diversity of mechanisms is healthier than a lack of diversity of mechanism (granted that over the years the necromancer lost some diversity of mechanism even if we can say that it got some "new" one added.

    Fear: You're talking 2012-2013 because the vast majority of GW2's life necromancer has had little fear. Way too much dedication to it in traits and even at it's most prevalent, which wasn't today, it was lacking. The knockdown trait in death, the fear of death trait used to cause fear when you downed, spectral wall started as vulnerability but that didn't last. We lost 2 and gained 2 sources of fear.

    The issue is that the frequency of the new sources of fear is way higher. Which make it a net gain, an increase.

    Boon conversation: Necromancer used to corrupt all boons with corrupt boon, used to have a signet trait that would remove boons on activation, had boon corruption on scepter auto. The issue here isn't boon corruption in my opinion. Scourge showed us that they have more options. I would argue all of necromancer's boon removal should be boon corruption and what condition it gets corrupted into could be narrow specific conditions half the time. My reasoning is to have potential trait synergy. Boon removal used to be higher for core necromancer but not that much. The signet trait used to be boon corruption if I remember correctly. Seems much of it was moved to scourge. Boons and boon removal is hotly debated though.

    SoS have been added more than 2 years after released of the game.

    Life Leeching: I'm not sure what you're point is here. Life leeching was always pretty bad on necromancer. Only revenant really made it work for themselves and that seems to be because arena net isn't afraid to give it real power behind it.... not only that it didn't used to function in shroud at all.

    I'm just saying that the mechanism itself is bad and adding more of it like ANet did over the year never solved the fact that it's bad. Reducing reliance on this mechanism by introducing other mechanisms would benefit the necromancer more than giving life leeching over and over even if it's in different forms like ANet did.

    Shroud: Shroud flashing was not good design. It discouraged the player from truly engaging with their mechanic. But after 8 years I still think shroud is a bad mechanic that can only be poorly balanced. If shroud flashing was more you enter for 5-10 seconds and pop out then it would have been better. But it wasn't. It was literally you get out as soon as possible because it was just that bad. Reaper does do the 5-10 second in and out of shroud. And it's more engaging than core necromancer. You should engage with your unique mechanic. That's part of the draw to play the class. The fact that we didn't was not a good thing.

    I agree that shroud is a bad mechanism, yet I disagree, shroud flashing wasn't a bad design, at least it drew the line between defensive use of the shroud and offensive one. But here that just a difference of point of view between you and me: I dislike the fact that ANet put all the damage onto the shroud, you do not. (thought, that's probably what screw the scourge's dps but well, whatever.)

    Area Denial: mmm. I don't have an opinion on this one. I'll have to think about it. There's no denying that necromancer is far far better at area denial than it used to be. Although 10 second recharge sand Savant with crippling pulses I'd say was its peek.. But I don't see this as a bad thing or a good thing. Perhaps you can elaborate on what your issue with it is?

    Too much? My issue is just that the amount have become excessive. After all, I've repeated it over and over again: "Let's be honest, it's no longer an healthy amount."

  • Morokey.8534Morokey.8534 Member ✭✭
    edited December 16, 2020

    Balance in PvE is ok, some classes are more single/multitarget, some more offensive/defensive. For example necromancer vs elementalist.. Higher sustain with lower damage vs higher damage and lower sustain. That's fine. But the thing I can't understand is why ''same skills'' works different.. For example ''Restorative Illusions'' trait for mesmer heal and cleanse you and don't even need to hit and ''Adrenal Health'' and ''Berserker's Power'' need to hit something ? Why reaper and soulbeast can leave their form whenever want and I need to wait with berserker for example 15s than finally leave ? Is that hard to give me F2 for exit ? This is what they should do and don't just boost or nerf something. There are tons of good ideas, so many good discusions but Anet don't even read forum I guess.. The only thing they do is make more and more skins to get more and more money that's it. After 6 months increase power coefficients on few skills and leave ''balance'' for next 6 months.

  • Morokey.8534Morokey.8534 Member ✭✭
    edited December 16, 2020

    They shoud cooperate with us, ask us what should be improwed, make some polls, answer some important questions, sometimes leave a comment in discusions etc etc.. I don't remember when they did at least one of these things..

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Anet needs to play every game type with every variation on each classes build (not every build but at least the glass dmg build vs the tankly build.) Having one dev play a tankly tempest or realty any class in wvw every now and then dose nothing to show the balancing of the class but the balancing of running more tankly in wvw. If any thing i think its caused the dev to think players want there classes to be more tankly in wvw so they nerfed dmg in wvw where this is NOT what the player base wants (but the only way the devs can play in wvw hehe.)

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.