dani.5680 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 We need more patches like these! 4 guards 1 mesmer vs 4 guards 1 rev , 4 warrs 1 mesmer vs 4 warrs 1 scrap. gold 2-plat1Thank you for all the good builds out there! You can play almous anything you want from guard dh to warr, well these 2.I have never seen a game where instead of creating more builds, they destroy some. When i look at other game, they buff skills of other heroes/classes to be on par with the OP ones. You guys just destroy builds. And those are not nerfes, they are killing classes, and not the ones that are directed too.Well 1st post in all this time.Buff more to be all on same par, not killing builds. Players that know math, know those nerfes are killing builds, not pushing you into another. From 0.376 to 0.2 isnt that almost in half!Well i enjoy my 4warr vs 4warr of 4 guard vs 4 guard fights now! Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exile.8160 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 @Megametzler.5729 said:In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dani.5680 Posted December 2, 2020 Author Share Posted December 2, 2020 @Exile.8160 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfssee how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others!so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS!I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 @Megametzler.5729 said:In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.How is build diversity up when most classes only have 1 viable/meme build? You're lucky if you have 2. Warrior is locked to support shoutbreaker only. No dps builds, core or Berserker builds are viable. Guardian has trapper DH and people want to nerf it. Core is out and FB has been dead for a while. Revenant has Power Shiro, and I personally think Renegade might be viable still but idk yet.Ranger has...do they have anything besides annoying entangle shenanigans? Ranger mains can correct me and fill in the blanks here. Thief has d/p power and condi p/d, but again we'll see if the patch did anything to their viability. Engi has nade Holo. No core or scrapper builds. Necro has reaper, sort of, and core condi gets shut down by shoutbreaker. Scourge and minions are memes and I can't believe there are people calling for nerfs to minions. Ele has been jailed to support tempest for a while. No weaver or core. Mesmer can run mirage if they're really good. Chrono and core are out as far as I'm aware. If you main these classes and know things I'm missing then feel free to fill in, but...yeah our build diversity is pretty bad at the moment. Just because a new class with a single build pops up because a previous meta pick is out doesn't mean we aren't very starved for actual build diversity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 @dani.5680 said:@Exile.8160 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfssee how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others!so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS!I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth!Players went on and on about powercreep when really only a few outliers needed toned down. Finally after listening to players complain for yrs they did the badly implemented de-powercreep patch which now in every poll comparing pre vs post feb patch more players preferred pre patch.I get wanting things toned down but u will eventually reach a point where further nerfs across the board will result in removing the fun aspect of classes and build deversity aswell, there's a reason gw2 pvp population is in such a dire state compared to yrs before. If a games better balanced but un fun or a blast to play but less balanced what game are u gonna play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly.7612 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 @Psycoprophet.8107 said:@dani.5680 said:@Exile.8160 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfssee how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others!so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS!I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth!Players went on and on about powercreep when really only a few outliers needed toned down. Finally after listening to players complain for yrs they did the badly implemented de-powercreep patch which now in every poll comparing pre vs post feb patch more players preferred pre patch.I get wanting things toned down but u will eventually reach a point where further nerfs across the board will result in removing the fun aspect of classes and build deversity aswell, there's a reason gw2 pvp population is in such a dire state compared to yrs before. If a games better balanced but un fun or a blast to play but less balanced what game are u gonna play?For real though. People play the shit out of LoL that has a MUCH lower TTK currently. Or WoW with a lower TTK. Even FFXIV PvP (which most people who play XIV don't do it for the PvP) in its current state is lower and they have dedicated healers. Gw2 has boomercapable PvP at least. Maybe that's their target market? xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 @Exile.8160 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfsYou can buff Firebrand a little and maybe power core for all I care. But burn guard is way too effective while being very easy to play. As I said, i have no problems with them as I know how to counter them, but they are very present in many games.@CutesySylveon.8290 said:snipI have seen scrappers, scourge MM necros, reapers, core bunker guards, condi thieves, core warrior, berserker, different rangers, condi mirages, weaver and tempest. Of course, still many core necs and DHs, but...... and me as power chrono. :tongue: Now that there are fewer thieves, I can stay on that build more often and let those slow guards explode.Around 1550 with only playing memes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 @Anomaly.7612 said:@Psycoprophet.8107 said:@dani.5680 said:@Exile.8160 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfssee how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others!so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS!I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth!Players went on and on about powercreep when really only a few outliers needed toned down. Finally after listening to players complain for yrs they did the badly implemented de-powercreep patch which now in every poll comparing pre vs post feb patch more players preferred pre patch.I get wanting things toned down but u will eventually reach a point where further nerfs across the board will result in removing the fun aspect of classes and build deversity aswell, there's a reason gw2 pvp population is in such a dire state compared to yrs before. If a games better balanced but un fun or a blast to play but less balanced what game are u gonna play?For real though. People play the kitten out of LoL that has a MUCH lower TTK currently. Or WoW with a lower TTK. Even FFXIV PvP (which most people who play XIV don't do it for the PvP) in its current state is lower and they have dedicated healers. Gw2 has boomercapable PvP at least. Maybe that's their target market? xDWell gw2 players dont really know what they want and are never happy. Ttk is to low people complain burstvis to high, ttk is to high people complain about a yank meta, as far as I'm concerned as long as counter play are available and no one shots are happening frequently I'd way rather a lower ttk ratio between 2 evenly skilled players then going back and forth for ever especially when half the reason why ttk gets increased in gw2 is because everything gets nerfed so hard that no one gets badly punished for mistakes anymore. I think half the qq's regarding ttk being to low were from players that had bad map awareness, were out skilled or punished for mistakes they made in a fight but we gw2 players have a mentality that its always the other classes issue of being OP not that the player happen to beat them in the fight.Pvp may not have been perfect in 2017-2018 but it was a blast compared to this garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Talking about build diversity in a community where 90% of the players copy paste builds from a website and barely read the traits is weird.More so if you consider those websites have their meta set by ATs and note solo queue which most ppl getting builds there are going to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Metabattle and relative sites are a bad influence, there is a lot of builds to have and in a viable state.They simply don't care to show anything but meta because all they care about is the meta. It's in their terms, you'll never find many builds on their site that would indicate "build diversity" to keep their site "clean".The diversity is something you can see by doing it yourself and watching players that care to see how more things can be achieved, it's been way more noticeable since the Feb patch that a lot of stuff began to be playable but also fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 @Megametzler.5729 said:@Exile.8160 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfsYou can buff Firebrand a little and maybe power core for all I care. But burn guard is way too effective while being very easy to play. As I said, i have no problems with them as I know how to counter them, but they are very present in many games.@CutesySylveon.8290 said:snipI have seen scrappers, scourge MM necros, reapers, core bunker guards, condi thieves, core warrior, berserker, different rangers, condi mirages, weaver and tempest. Of course, still many core necs and DHs, but...... and me as power chrono. :tongue: Now that there are fewer thieves, I can stay on that build more often and let those slow guards explode.Around 1550 with only playing memes.Okay, you SEEING something means absolutely nothing. I see a lot of people running things that don't work or aren't good, doesn't mean they're viable. Scrapper is straight outclassed by Holo, scourge MM is a meme and is a constant source of mockery from EU players that NA struggles against it. Core warrior isn't killing anything with even a tiny amount of consistent cleanse, and Berserker is bad and still bad beyond meming people who panic and can't dodge obvious CC. Condi mirage might make a come back. Weaver can't do anything with a support on the enemy team. Core necro is a meat sponge that can't touch a team with cleanse support and trapper DH is the last viable guardian build. Power chrono is a glass cannon that dies to anything that looks at it hard enough and can dodge telegraphed burst and is gonna really become useless if power Shiro starts another reign of terror. The fact you think burn DH is an issue speaks a lot and not in a good way. Again, most of the things you listed aren't viable or just straight up outclassed by the main build the class uses. Shifting the main thing you see on a match also doesn't change the fact that what the classes can run that's viable is extremely limited. Having 1-2 builds even worth mentioning, much less actually using, means we've got no build diversity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Megametzler.5729 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 @CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:@Exile.8160 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfsYou can buff Firebrand a little and maybe power core for all I care. But burn guard is way too effective while being very easy to play. As I said, i have no problems with them as I know how to counter them, but they are very present in many games.@CutesySylveon.8290 said:snipI have seen scrappers, scourge MM necros, reapers, core bunker guards, condi thieves, core warrior, berserker, different rangers, condi mirages, weaver and tempest. Of course, still many core necs and DHs, but...... and me as power chrono. :tongue: Now that there are fewer thieves, I can stay on that build more often and let those slow guards explode.Around 1550 with only playing memes.Okay, you SEEING something means absolutely nothing. I see a lot of people running things that don't work or aren't good, doesn't mean they're viable. Scrapper is straight outclassed by Holo, scourge MM is a meme and is a constant source of mockery from EU players that NA struggles against it. Core warrior isn't killing anything with even a tiny amount of consistent cleanse, and Berserker is bad and still bad beyond meming people who panic and can't dodge obvious CC. Condi mirage might make a come back. Weaver can't do anything with a support on the enemy team. Core necro is a meat sponge that can't touch a team with cleanse support and trapper DH is the last viable guardian build. Power chrono is a glass cannon that dies to anything that looks at it hard enough and can dodge telegraphed burst and is gonna really become useless if power Shiro starts another reign of terror. The fact you think burn DH is an issue speaks a lot and not in a good way. Again, most of the things you listed aren't viable or just straight up outclassed by the main build the class uses. Shifting the main thing you see on a match also doesn't change the fact that what the classes can run that's viable is extremely limited. Having 1-2 builds even worth mentioning, much less actually using, means we've got no build diversity. It was on EU. MM scourge did quite well, while being as slow as it is. My power chrono destroyed dual burn DH teams easily, I didn't even die once in those games. And I am not great with that build.I did not see power rev indeed, but it is less of a hard counter to power mes than thief was (is?), so I will keep an eye on that. I only played like 4-5 games since yesterday's patch. And only around P1. In higher tiers, people will of course know how to counter a power chrono properly.€: I am not saying all these builds are viable. But the meta seems shaken up a little and I will not judge before one or two weeks came in. Then maybe we can talk about guard, maybe necro or whatever comes up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 @Megametzler.5729 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:@Exile.8160 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfsYou can buff Firebrand a little and maybe power core for all I care. But burn guard is way too effective while being very easy to play. As I said, i have no problems with them as I know how to counter them, but they are very present in many games.@CutesySylveon.8290 said:snipI have seen scrappers, scourge MM necros, reapers, core bunker guards, condi thieves, core warrior, berserker, different rangers, condi mirages, weaver and tempest. Of course, still many core necs and DHs, but...... and me as power chrono. :tongue: Now that there are fewer thieves, I can stay on that build more often and let those slow guards explode.Around 1550 with only playing memes.Okay, you SEEING something means absolutely nothing. I see a lot of people running things that don't work or aren't good, doesn't mean they're viable. Scrapper is straight outclassed by Holo, scourge MM is a meme and is a constant source of mockery from EU players that NA struggles against it. Core warrior isn't killing anything with even a tiny amount of consistent cleanse, and Berserker is bad and still bad beyond meming people who panic and can't dodge obvious CC. Condi mirage might make a come back. Weaver can't do anything with a support on the enemy team. Core necro is a meat sponge that can't touch a team with cleanse support and trapper DH is the last viable guardian build. Power chrono is a glass cannon that dies to anything that looks at it hard enough and can dodge telegraphed burst and is gonna really become useless if power Shiro starts another reign of terror. The fact you think burn DH is an issue speaks a lot and not in a good way. Again, most of the things you listed aren't viable or just straight up outclassed by the main build the class uses. Shifting the main thing you see on a match also doesn't change the fact that what the classes can run that's viable is extremely limited. Having 1-2 builds even worth mentioning, much less actually using, means we've got no build diversity. It was on EU. MM scourge did quite well, while being as slow as it is. My power chrono destroyed dual burn DH teams easily, I didn't even die once in those games. And I am not great with that build.I did not see power rev indeed, but it is less of a hard counter to power mes than thief was (is?), so I will keep an eye on that. I only played like 4-5 games since yesterday's patch. And only around P1. In higher tiers, people will of course know how to counter a power chrono properly.€: I am not saying all these builds are viable. But the meta seems shaken up a little and I will not judge before one or two weeks came in. Then maybe we can talk about guard, maybe necro or whatever comes up.If you can destroy DH with power mesmer, how can you reasonably say it's way too effective for how easy it is to play? How hard a build is doesn't mean it should have any standard of viability attached to it, even if you literally just auto attack. This build is make or break by trapper runes and Dragon's Maw, remove either of those things or just dodge Dragon's Maw and you've got a build that can't hope to do anything but F1 and that's also severely jeopardizing their effectiveness even if it lands. Once it's gone, guardian is without any viable builds left baring some new discovery or such a serious shakeup in the meta that an old build comes back. I seriously doubt much will change. If power thief were to be out then power Shiro will likely fill in its place again, even if it is a compromise on mobility in exchange for better team-fighting capabilities. This could let condi mirage come back and keep it in check but I doubt it. I agree the meta could be shaken up a bit, but I don't see it being so much so that Berserker, non holo engis, non tempest ele's, etc etc will be able to come back. One or two things might shift, but we'll still be in a stagnant state of little build variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly.7612 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 @CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:@Exile.8160 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfsYou can buff Firebrand a little and maybe power core for all I care. But burn guard is way too effective while being very easy to play. As I said, i have no problems with them as I know how to counter them, but they are very present in many games.@CutesySylveon.8290 said:snipI have seen scrappers, scourge MM necros, reapers, core bunker guards, condi thieves, core warrior, berserker, different rangers, condi mirages, weaver and tempest. Of course, still many core necs and DHs, but...... and me as power chrono. :tongue: Now that there are fewer thieves, I can stay on that build more often and let those slow guards explode.Around 1550 with only playing memes.Okay, you SEEING something means absolutely nothing. I see a lot of people running things that don't work or aren't good, doesn't mean they're viable. Scrapper is straight outclassed by Holo, scourge MM is a meme and is a constant source of mockery from EU players that NA struggles against it. Core warrior isn't killing anything with even a tiny amount of consistent cleanse, and Berserker is bad and still bad beyond meming people who panic and can't dodge obvious CC. Condi mirage might make a come back. Weaver can't do anything with a support on the enemy team. Core necro is a meat sponge that can't touch a team with cleanse support and trapper DH is the last viable guardian build. Power chrono is a glass cannon that dies to anything that looks at it hard enough and can dodge telegraphed burst and is gonna really become useless if power Shiro starts another reign of terror. The fact you think burn DH is an issue speaks a lot and not in a good way. Again, most of the things you listed aren't viable or just straight up outclassed by the main build the class uses. Shifting the main thing you see on a match also doesn't change the fact that what the classes can run that's viable is extremely limited. Having 1-2 builds even worth mentioning, much less actually using, means we've got no build diversity. It was on EU. MM scourge did quite well, while being as slow as it is. My power chrono destroyed dual burn DH teams easily, I didn't even die once in those games. And I am not great with that build.I did not see power rev indeed, but it is less of a hard counter to power mes than thief was (is?), so I will keep an eye on that. I only played like 4-5 games since yesterday's patch. And only around P1. In higher tiers, people will of course know how to counter a power chrono properly.€: I am not saying all these builds are viable. But the meta seems shaken up a little and I will not judge before one or two weeks came in. Then maybe we can talk about guard, maybe necro or whatever comes up.If you can destroy DH with power mesmer, how can you reasonably say it's way too effective for how easy it is to play? How hard a build is doesn't mean it should have any standard of viability attached to it, even if you literally just auto attack. This build is make or break by trapper runes and Dragon's Maw, remove either of those things or just dodge Dragon's Maw and you've got a build that can't hope to do anything but F1 and that's also severely jeopardizing their effectiveness even if it lands. Once it's gone, guardian is without any viable builds left baring some new discovery or such a serious shakeup in the meta that an old build comes back. I seriously doubt much will change. If power thief were to be out then power Shiro will likely fill in its place again, even if it is a compromise on mobility in exchange for better team-fighting capabilities. This could let condi mirage come back and keep it in check but I doubt it. I agree the meta could be shaken up a bit, but I don't see it being so much so that Berserker, non holo engis, non tempest ele's, etc etc will be able to come back. One or two things might shift, but we'll still be in a stagnant state of little build variety. Oh how I remember the days when all the competitive thieves rerolled power Rev. People on the receiving end hated it even more and begged for thief to be good again. rocks back and forth in old squeaky chair Yeah.... Those were the days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 @Anomaly.7612 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:@Exile.8160 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfsYou can buff Firebrand a little and maybe power core for all I care. But burn guard is way too effective while being very easy to play. As I said, i have no problems with them as I know how to counter them, but they are very present in many games.@CutesySylveon.8290 said:snipI have seen scrappers, scourge MM necros, reapers, core bunker guards, condi thieves, core warrior, berserker, different rangers, condi mirages, weaver and tempest. Of course, still many core necs and DHs, but...... and me as power chrono. :tongue: Now that there are fewer thieves, I can stay on that build more often and let those slow guards explode.Around 1550 with only playing memes.Okay, you SEEING something means absolutely nothing. I see a lot of people running things that don't work or aren't good, doesn't mean they're viable. Scrapper is straight outclassed by Holo, scourge MM is a meme and is a constant source of mockery from EU players that NA struggles against it. Core warrior isn't killing anything with even a tiny amount of consistent cleanse, and Berserker is bad and still bad beyond meming people who panic and can't dodge obvious CC. Condi mirage might make a come back. Weaver can't do anything with a support on the enemy team. Core necro is a meat sponge that can't touch a team with cleanse support and trapper DH is the last viable guardian build. Power chrono is a glass cannon that dies to anything that looks at it hard enough and can dodge telegraphed burst and is gonna really become useless if power Shiro starts another reign of terror. The fact you think burn DH is an issue speaks a lot and not in a good way. Again, most of the things you listed aren't viable or just straight up outclassed by the main build the class uses. Shifting the main thing you see on a match also doesn't change the fact that what the classes can run that's viable is extremely limited. Having 1-2 builds even worth mentioning, much less actually using, means we've got no build diversity. It was on EU. MM scourge did quite well, while being as slow as it is. My power chrono destroyed dual burn DH teams easily, I didn't even die once in those games. And I am not great with that build.I did not see power rev indeed, but it is less of a hard counter to power mes than thief was (is?), so I will keep an eye on that. I only played like 4-5 games since yesterday's patch. And only around P1. In higher tiers, people will of course know how to counter a power chrono properly.€: I am not saying all these builds are viable. But the meta seems shaken up a little and I will not judge before one or two weeks came in. Then maybe we can talk about guard, maybe necro or whatever comes up.If you can destroy DH with power mesmer, how can you reasonably say it's way too effective for how easy it is to play? How hard a build is doesn't mean it should have any standard of viability attached to it, even if you literally just auto attack. This build is make or break by trapper runes and Dragon's Maw, remove either of those things or just dodge Dragon's Maw and you've got a build that can't hope to do anything but F1 and that's also severely jeopardizing their effectiveness even if it lands. Once it's gone, guardian is without any viable builds left baring some new discovery or such a serious shakeup in the meta that an old build comes back. I seriously doubt much will change. If power thief were to be out then power Shiro will likely fill in its place again, even if it is a compromise on mobility in exchange for better team-fighting capabilities. This could let condi mirage come back and keep it in check but I doubt it. I agree the meta could be shaken up a bit, but I don't see it being so much so that Berserker, non holo engis, non tempest ele's, etc etc will be able to come back. One or two things might shift, but we'll still be in a stagnant state of little build variety. Oh how I remember the days when all the competitive thieves rerolled power Rev. People on the receiving end hated it even more and begged for thief to be good again. rocks back and forth in old squeaky chair Yeah.... Those were the days. Remember the days 20 energy Phase Traversal, F2 giving all of Glint's facet boons, staff 5 doing damage, shield being great, Equilibrium existed, Impossible Odds gave quickness and superspeed, Elder Force giving a damage buff for every boon on you, and Sword 2 tracked stealth? Brings two hot drinks and sits in a second squeaky chair. Those were quite the days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dani.5680 Posted December 2, 2020 Author Share Posted December 2, 2020 @CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Anomaly.7612 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:@Exile.8160 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfsYou can buff Firebrand a little and maybe power core for all I care. But burn guard is way too effective while being very easy to play. As I said, i have no problems with them as I know how to counter them, but they are very present in many games.@CutesySylveon.8290 said:snipI have seen scrappers, scourge MM necros, reapers, core bunker guards, condi thieves, core warrior, berserker, different rangers, condi mirages, weaver and tempest. Of course, still many core necs and DHs, but...... and me as power chrono. :tongue: Now that there are fewer thieves, I can stay on that build more often and let those slow guards explode.Around 1550 with only playing memes.Okay, you SEEING something means absolutely nothing. I see a lot of people running things that don't work or aren't good, doesn't mean they're viable. Scrapper is straight outclassed by Holo, scourge MM is a meme and is a constant source of mockery from EU players that NA struggles against it. Core warrior isn't killing anything with even a tiny amount of consistent cleanse, and Berserker is bad and still bad beyond meming people who panic and can't dodge obvious CC. Condi mirage might make a come back. Weaver can't do anything with a support on the enemy team. Core necro is a meat sponge that can't touch a team with cleanse support and trapper DH is the last viable guardian build. Power chrono is a glass cannon that dies to anything that looks at it hard enough and can dodge telegraphed burst and is gonna really become useless if power Shiro starts another reign of terror. The fact you think burn DH is an issue speaks a lot and not in a good way. Again, most of the things you listed aren't viable or just straight up outclassed by the main build the class uses. Shifting the main thing you see on a match also doesn't change the fact that what the classes can run that's viable is extremely limited. Having 1-2 builds even worth mentioning, much less actually using, means we've got no build diversity. It was on EU. MM scourge did quite well, while being as slow as it is. My power chrono destroyed dual burn DH teams easily, I didn't even die once in those games. And I am not great with that build.I did not see power rev indeed, but it is less of a hard counter to power mes than thief was (is?), so I will keep an eye on that. I only played like 4-5 games since yesterday's patch. And only around P1. In higher tiers, people will of course know how to counter a power chrono properly.€: I am not saying all these builds are viable. But the meta seems shaken up a little and I will not judge before one or two weeks came in. Then maybe we can talk about guard, maybe necro or whatever comes up.If you can destroy DH with power mesmer, how can you reasonably say it's way too effective for how easy it is to play? How hard a build is doesn't mean it should have any standard of viability attached to it, even if you literally just auto attack. This build is make or break by trapper runes and Dragon's Maw, remove either of those things or just dodge Dragon's Maw and you've got a build that can't hope to do anything but F1 and that's also severely jeopardizing their effectiveness even if it lands. Once it's gone, guardian is without any viable builds left baring some new discovery or such a serious shakeup in the meta that an old build comes back. I seriously doubt much will change. If power thief were to be out then power Shiro will likely fill in its place again, even if it is a compromise on mobility in exchange for better team-fighting capabilities. This could let condi mirage come back and keep it in check but I doubt it. I agree the meta could be shaken up a bit, but I don't see it being so much so that Berserker, non holo engis, non tempest ele's, etc etc will be able to come back. One or two things might shift, but we'll still be in a stagnant state of little build variety. Oh how I remember the days when all the competitive thieves rerolled power Rev. People on the receiving end hated it even more and begged for thief to be good again. rocks back and forth in old squeaky chair Yeah.... Those were the days. Remember the days 20 energy Phase Traversal, F2 giving all of Glint's facet boons, staff 5 doing damage, shield being great, Equilibrium existed, Impossible Odds gave quickness and superspeed, Elder Force giving a damage buff for every boon on you, and Sword 2 tracked stealth? Brings two hot drinks and sits in a second squeaky chair. Those were quite the days.The question is:Why the devs dont keep these kind of builds that are fun to play and have 1 more viable build on the table and buff other builds at the same level of fun?Why we need to crash burn kill every possbile build out there. thats what i dont understand.why cant we have 30 builds on point that you can have there and actual SKILL in pvp makes your mark, not some copy paste build from metabattle from those 3-4 5 rank( 3 OR 4 BUILDS THAT ARE 5 STARS). Its crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 @dani.5680 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Anomaly.7612 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:@Exile.8160 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfsYou can buff Firebrand a little and maybe power core for all I care. But burn guard is way too effective while being very easy to play. As I said, i have no problems with them as I know how to counter them, but they are very present in many games.@CutesySylveon.8290 said:snipI have seen scrappers, scourge MM necros, reapers, core bunker guards, condi thieves, core warrior, berserker, different rangers, condi mirages, weaver and tempest. Of course, still many core necs and DHs, but...... and me as power chrono. :tongue: Now that there are fewer thieves, I can stay on that build more often and let those slow guards explode.Around 1550 with only playing memes.Okay, you SEEING something means absolutely nothing. I see a lot of people running things that don't work or aren't good, doesn't mean they're viable. Scrapper is straight outclassed by Holo, scourge MM is a meme and is a constant source of mockery from EU players that NA struggles against it. Core warrior isn't killing anything with even a tiny amount of consistent cleanse, and Berserker is bad and still bad beyond meming people who panic and can't dodge obvious CC. Condi mirage might make a come back. Weaver can't do anything with a support on the enemy team. Core necro is a meat sponge that can't touch a team with cleanse support and trapper DH is the last viable guardian build. Power chrono is a glass cannon that dies to anything that looks at it hard enough and can dodge telegraphed burst and is gonna really become useless if power Shiro starts another reign of terror. The fact you think burn DH is an issue speaks a lot and not in a good way. Again, most of the things you listed aren't viable or just straight up outclassed by the main build the class uses. Shifting the main thing you see on a match also doesn't change the fact that what the classes can run that's viable is extremely limited. Having 1-2 builds even worth mentioning, much less actually using, means we've got no build diversity. It was on EU. MM scourge did quite well, while being as slow as it is. My power chrono destroyed dual burn DH teams easily, I didn't even die once in those games. And I am not great with that build.I did not see power rev indeed, but it is less of a hard counter to power mes than thief was (is?), so I will keep an eye on that. I only played like 4-5 games since yesterday's patch. And only around P1. In higher tiers, people will of course know how to counter a power chrono properly.€: I am not saying all these builds are viable. But the meta seems shaken up a little and I will not judge before one or two weeks came in. Then maybe we can talk about guard, maybe necro or whatever comes up.If you can destroy DH with power mesmer, how can you reasonably say it's way too effective for how easy it is to play? How hard a build is doesn't mean it should have any standard of viability attached to it, even if you literally just auto attack. This build is make or break by trapper runes and Dragon's Maw, remove either of those things or just dodge Dragon's Maw and you've got a build that can't hope to do anything but F1 and that's also severely jeopardizing their effectiveness even if it lands. Once it's gone, guardian is without any viable builds left baring some new discovery or such a serious shakeup in the meta that an old build comes back. I seriously doubt much will change. If power thief were to be out then power Shiro will likely fill in its place again, even if it is a compromise on mobility in exchange for better team-fighting capabilities. This could let condi mirage come back and keep it in check but I doubt it. I agree the meta could be shaken up a bit, but I don't see it being so much so that Berserker, non holo engis, non tempest ele's, etc etc will be able to come back. One or two things might shift, but we'll still be in a stagnant state of little build variety. Oh how I remember the days when all the competitive thieves rerolled power Rev. People on the receiving end hated it even more and begged for thief to be good again. rocks back and forth in old squeaky chair Yeah.... Those were the days. Remember the days 20 energy Phase Traversal, F2 giving all of Glint's facet boons, staff 5 doing damage, shield being great, Equilibrium existed, Impossible Odds gave quickness and superspeed, Elder Force giving a damage buff for every boon on you, and Sword 2 tracked stealth? Brings two hot drinks and sits in a second squeaky chair. Those were quite the days.The question is:Why the devs dont keep these kind of builds that are fun to play and have 1 more viable build on the table and buff other builds at the same level of fun?Why we need to crash burn kill every possbile build out there. thats what i dont understand.why cant we have 30 builds on point that you can have there and actual SKILL in pvp makes your mark, not some copy paste build from metabattle from those 3-4 5 rank( 3 OR 4 BUILDS THAT ARE 5 STARS). Its crazy!To be fair, revenant was pretty busted on release, but it was also being hard carried by numbers and shiro/glint. Revenant was a mess when it came out lol but you are right. We need more viable build options for each class, not 1 or 2 that are meta dependent. We've been on a rapid track of nerfimg into irrelevance rather than trying to bring new builds to the picture. For example, while I disagree minion-mancer is good, if I'm wrong and it works, then great! We should be glad options to play exist, but people get upset that these builds counter the one they play and clamber for nerfs because they think their build should have nothing to struggle against. When was the last time minions were good? Most classes have a handful of skills that are viable in PvP and the rest are forgotten. Anyone remember turrets? Meditrapper? Ventari? Hammer guard? Fresh Air? D/D daredevil? And countless other builds that were not only fun but viable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowmaster.5370 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 @dani.5680 said:We need more patches like these! 4 guards 1 mesmer vs 4 guards 1 rev , 4 warrs 1 mesmer vs 4 warrs 1 scrap. gold 2-plat1Thank you for all the good builds out there! You can play almous anything you want from guard dh to warr, well these 2.I have never seen a game where instead of creating more builds, they destroy some. When i look at other game, they buff skills of other heroes/classes to be on par with the OP ones. You guys just destroy builds. And those are not nerfes, they are killing classes, and not the ones that are directed too.Well 1st post in all this time.Buff more to be all on same par, not killing builds. Players that know math, know those nerfes are killing builds, not pushing you into another. From 0.376 to 0.2 isnt that almost in half!Well i enjoy my 4warr vs 4warr of 4 guard vs 4 guard fights now! Thank you!I can't agree more with you...they want to turn gw2 into mario, the first one....with 2 options that achieve the same and just run over the world looking for somewhere to put it. (mic drop) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowmaster.5370 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 @dani.5680 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Anomaly.7612 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:@Exile.8160 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfsYou can buff Firebrand a little and maybe power core for all I care. But burn guard is way too effective while being very easy to play. As I said, i have no problems with them as I know how to counter them, but they are very present in many games.@CutesySylveon.8290 said:snipI have seen scrappers, scourge MM necros, reapers, core bunker guards, condi thieves, core warrior, berserker, different rangers, condi mirages, weaver and tempest. Of course, still many core necs and DHs, but...... and me as power chrono. :tongue: Now that there are fewer thieves, I can stay on that build more often and let those slow guards explode.Around 1550 with only playing memes.Okay, you SEEING something means absolutely nothing. I see a lot of people running things that don't work or aren't good, doesn't mean they're viable. Scrapper is straight outclassed by Holo, scourge MM is a meme and is a constant source of mockery from EU players that NA struggles against it. Core warrior isn't killing anything with even a tiny amount of consistent cleanse, and Berserker is bad and still bad beyond meming people who panic and can't dodge obvious CC. Condi mirage might make a come back. Weaver can't do anything with a support on the enemy team. Core necro is a meat sponge that can't touch a team with cleanse support and trapper DH is the last viable guardian build. Power chrono is a glass cannon that dies to anything that looks at it hard enough and can dodge telegraphed burst and is gonna really become useless if power Shiro starts another reign of terror. The fact you think burn DH is an issue speaks a lot and not in a good way. Again, most of the things you listed aren't viable or just straight up outclassed by the main build the class uses. Shifting the main thing you see on a match also doesn't change the fact that what the classes can run that's viable is extremely limited. Having 1-2 builds even worth mentioning, much less actually using, means we've got no build diversity. It was on EU. MM scourge did quite well, while being as slow as it is. My power chrono destroyed dual burn DH teams easily, I didn't even die once in those games. And I am not great with that build.I did not see power rev indeed, but it is less of a hard counter to power mes than thief was (is?), so I will keep an eye on that. I only played like 4-5 games since yesterday's patch. And only around P1. In higher tiers, people will of course know how to counter a power chrono properly.€: I am not saying all these builds are viable. But the meta seems shaken up a little and I will not judge before one or two weeks came in. Then maybe we can talk about guard, maybe necro or whatever comes up.If you can destroy DH with power mesmer, how can you reasonably say it's way too effective for how easy it is to play? How hard a build is doesn't mean it should have any standard of viability attached to it, even if you literally just auto attack. This build is make or break by trapper runes and Dragon's Maw, remove either of those things or just dodge Dragon's Maw and you've got a build that can't hope to do anything but F1 and that's also severely jeopardizing their effectiveness even if it lands. Once it's gone, guardian is without any viable builds left baring some new discovery or such a serious shakeup in the meta that an old build comes back. I seriously doubt much will change. If power thief were to be out then power Shiro will likely fill in its place again, even if it is a compromise on mobility in exchange for better team-fighting capabilities. This could let condi mirage come back and keep it in check but I doubt it. I agree the meta could be shaken up a bit, but I don't see it being so much so that Berserker, non holo engis, non tempest ele's, etc etc will be able to come back. One or two things might shift, but we'll still be in a stagnant state of little build variety. Oh how I remember the days when all the competitive thieves rerolled power Rev. People on the receiving end hated it even more and begged for thief to be good again. rocks back and forth in old squeaky chair Yeah.... Those were the days. Remember the days 20 energy Phase Traversal, F2 giving all of Glint's facet boons, staff 5 doing damage, shield being great, Equilibrium existed, Impossible Odds gave quickness and superspeed, Elder Force giving a damage buff for every boon on you, and Sword 2 tracked stealth? Brings two hot drinks and sits in a second squeaky chair. Those were quite the days.The question is:Why the devs dont keep these kind of builds that are fun to play and have 1 more viable build on the table and buff other builds at the same level of fun?Why we need to crash burn kill every possbile build out there. thats what i dont understand.why cant we have 30 builds on point that you can have there and actual SKILL in pvp makes your mark, not some copy paste build from metabattle from those 3-4 5 rank( 3 OR 4 BUILDS THAT ARE 5 STARS). Its crazy!actually...ANET "Balances"in my opinion only thing that have done, since PoF came to be, is to punish skillful game play and reward playing sht you dont even need to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shao.7236 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 @shadowmaster.5370 said:@dani.5680 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Anomaly.7612 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:@CutesySylveon.8290 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:@Exile.8160 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfsYou can buff Firebrand a little and maybe power core for all I care. But burn guard is way too effective while being very easy to play. As I said, i have no problems with them as I know how to counter them, but they are very present in many games.@CutesySylveon.8290 said:snipI have seen scrappers, scourge MM necros, reapers, core bunker guards, condi thieves, core warrior, berserker, different rangers, condi mirages, weaver and tempest. Of course, still many core necs and DHs, but...... and me as power chrono. :tongue: Now that there are fewer thieves, I can stay on that build more often and let those slow guards explode.Around 1550 with only playing memes.Okay, you SEEING something means absolutely nothing. I see a lot of people running things that don't work or aren't good, doesn't mean they're viable. Scrapper is straight outclassed by Holo, scourge MM is a meme and is a constant source of mockery from EU players that NA struggles against it. Core warrior isn't killing anything with even a tiny amount of consistent cleanse, and Berserker is bad and still bad beyond meming people who panic and can't dodge obvious CC. Condi mirage might make a come back. Weaver can't do anything with a support on the enemy team. Core necro is a meat sponge that can't touch a team with cleanse support and trapper DH is the last viable guardian build. Power chrono is a glass cannon that dies to anything that looks at it hard enough and can dodge telegraphed burst and is gonna really become useless if power Shiro starts another reign of terror. The fact you think burn DH is an issue speaks a lot and not in a good way. Again, most of the things you listed aren't viable or just straight up outclassed by the main build the class uses. Shifting the main thing you see on a match also doesn't change the fact that what the classes can run that's viable is extremely limited. Having 1-2 builds even worth mentioning, much less actually using, means we've got no build diversity. It was on EU. MM scourge did quite well, while being as slow as it is. My power chrono destroyed dual burn DH teams easily, I didn't even die once in those games. And I am not great with that build.I did not see power rev indeed, but it is less of a hard counter to power mes than thief was (is?), so I will keep an eye on that. I only played like 4-5 games since yesterday's patch. And only around P1. In higher tiers, people will of course know how to counter a power chrono properly.€: I am not saying all these builds are viable. But the meta seems shaken up a little and I will not judge before one or two weeks came in. Then maybe we can talk about guard, maybe necro or whatever comes up.If you can destroy DH with power mesmer, how can you reasonably say it's way too effective for how easy it is to play? How hard a build is doesn't mean it should have any standard of viability attached to it, even if you literally just auto attack. This build is make or break by trapper runes and Dragon's Maw, remove either of those things or just dodge Dragon's Maw and you've got a build that can't hope to do anything but F1 and that's also severely jeopardizing their effectiveness even if it lands. Once it's gone, guardian is without any viable builds left baring some new discovery or such a serious shakeup in the meta that an old build comes back. I seriously doubt much will change. If power thief were to be out then power Shiro will likely fill in its place again, even if it is a compromise on mobility in exchange for better team-fighting capabilities. This could let condi mirage come back and keep it in check but I doubt it. I agree the meta could be shaken up a bit, but I don't see it being so much so that Berserker, non holo engis, non tempest ele's, etc etc will be able to come back. One or two things might shift, but we'll still be in a stagnant state of little build variety. Oh how I remember the days when all the competitive thieves rerolled power Rev. People on the receiving end hated it even more and begged for thief to be good again. rocks back and forth in old squeaky chair Yeah.... Those were the days. Remember the days 20 energy Phase Traversal, F2 giving all of Glint's facet boons, staff 5 doing damage, shield being great, Equilibrium existed, Impossible Odds gave quickness and superspeed, Elder Force giving a damage buff for every boon on you, and Sword 2 tracked stealth? Brings two hot drinks and sits in a second squeaky chair. Those were quite the days.The question is:Why the devs dont keep these kind of builds that are fun to play and have 1 more viable build on the table and buff other builds at the same level of fun?Why we need to crash burn kill every possbile build out there. thats what i dont understand.why cant we have 30 builds on point that you can have there and actual SKILL in pvp makes your mark, not some copy paste build from metabattle from those 3-4 5 rank( 3 OR 4 BUILDS THAT ARE 5 STARS). Its crazy!actually...ANET "Balances"in my opinion only thing that have done, since PoF came to be, is to punish skillful game play and reward playing kitten you dont even need to read."Skillful" gameplay, elaborate on what makes anything skillful in the game. I rarely see anything in the meta builds that's actually skillful, they are meta for a reason. Because they are easy and takes the least effort to play. Most skillful builds tend to be those that are rated "good" because there's most to it that just pressing 2 buttons for results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crepuscular.9047 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 GW1 had crap loads of builds thanks to the various damage typesI don't think we do need to bring back the whole lot like the specific types, introducing 'magic' as a damage type would create a whole new level of build diversity to the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeqkOneStylez.8047 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 Let's not forget the reason why we're here is because they didn't want to just nerf Holo and Power rev's dmg / free might stacks directly. 1 Year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedShark.9548 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 @dani.5680 said:@Exile.8160 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfssee how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others!so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS!I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth!Dude, you must be new to gw2.Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted December 3, 2020 Share Posted December 3, 2020 @RedShark.9548 said:@dani.5680 said:@Exile.8160 said:@Megametzler.5729 said:In my experience, build diversity went up quite a lot. Sure, there are still many guards and necros, but there were just as many before the patch. Now there are more variations on warriors, tempests are coming back, even seen more mesmers (though not yet statistically relevant).Put an ICD on Eternal Armory and guard is fine. Maaaybe change Rune of the Trapper. But I am having fun blasting them out of existance from range, they are horribly slow and once out of stealth can't really surprise you with anything. Only watch out for F1, that's about it.So basically kill of the last bit of dmg/build guards have? Theyve been over neef in everytbing else. So instead of trying to delete a class how about suguest buff on other parts before you call for nerfssee how things works? players start to cry about the dh, they nerf the dh into the ground, deleting one more viable class instead of buffing others!so, why devs nerf things instead of buffing? isnt that crazy? i watched few weeks ago some patch notes of different games, guess what: 96% OF THE PATCH NOTES WAS ABOUT CLASSES/HEROES GETTING BUFFED, 4% OF SMALL NERFS!I think the build diversity is lower than when the game started and you could see at a 5vs5 ranked game at least 6 different build, sorry but its the truth!Dude, you must be new to gw2.Buffing every class instead of nerfing 1 is what got us to what we got now. They used to just buff everything and the powercreep went out of controll, everybody just oneshotting each other. Thats the whole reason why they toned down everything and they sure as hell dont want to start the same thing over again. No, what got us to where we are now is them constantly nerfing instead of buffing. We had slight power creep (though, fun fact: Not nearly as much as people would think. Hell, pre-HoT Cele Ele wouldve wiped the floor with a lot of builds last year). Now we have severe power dip. Its like powercreep, except the other way around, and way worse. Were already over 20% lower in damage than at any point in the game prior. And its hurting the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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