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Lich form is broken

John.8507John.8507 Member ✭✭✭

According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

Comments

  • John.8507John.8507 Member ✭✭✭

    Okay sure, the transform skill is right, but how can you still be feared in Lich form, when the tool tip specifically says cannot be feared?

  • Terrorhuz.4695Terrorhuz.4695 Member ✭✭✭

    @John.8507 said:
    According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

    Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @John.8507 said:
    Okay sure, the transform skill is right, but how can you still be feared in Lich form, when the tool tip specifically says cannot be feared?

    Lich form has stability, pulsing, so when that gets corrupted it becomes fear. :smile:

  • Tycura.1982Tycura.1982 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2021

    I mean that's just counter play and they would have to corrupt or remove your stability for that to happen. Are you saying lich should have less counterplay? That's a hot take lmao.

  • bethekey.8314bethekey.8314 Member ✭✭✭

    @John.8507 said:
    Okay sure, the transform skill is right, but how can you still be feared in Lich form, when the tool tip specifically says cannot be feared?

    I certainly fear Lich Form. Have nightmares about it.

    In order to ensure our forums are pleasant and safe for all forum members, we expect all contributors to be respectful of one another. Posts that are rude towards or attack another member, single out a player for ridicule, or that accuse someone of inappropriate behavior will be removed.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @John.8507 said:
    Okay sure, the transform skill is right, but how can you still be feared in Lich form, when the tool tip specifically says cannot be feared?

    Take a look at that tooltip again. The transform does not grant you immunity to fear and other CC, it just applies stability. Which is a boon, and boons have counterplay to them. They can be removed and corrupted. So the transform is functionally not broken, it's actually working as intended.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @John.8507 said:
    According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

    Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

    I personally think moa ignoring stab is stupid, but the skill itself is so bad nerfing it would be pointless.
    but the concept of having a counter to a counter seems kitten backwards to me, similar thing to shadow-meld. stupid by design

  • Terrorhuz.4695Terrorhuz.4695 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @John.8507 said:
    According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

    Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

    I personally think moa ignoring stab is stupid, but the skill itself is so bad nerfing it would be pointless.
    but the concept of having a counter to a counter seems kitten backwards to me, similar thing to shadow-meld. stupid by design

    I'm sorry Lich is counter to what?

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm sorry but when i read the title i understood "Lich Form is OP" wich i was going to say "A little overtunned.. Yes..."
    Am i the only one who relates "broken" to be overtunned?

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    I'm sorry but when i read the title i understood "Lich Form is OP" wich i was going to say "A little overtunned.. Yes..."
    Am i the only one who relates "broken" to be overtunned?

    "Broken" stand for both in an advantageous way and a disadvantageous way. We see more often "OP" for orvertunned than "UP" for "undertunned".

    As for the subject of the thread, the Lich form tooltip does not say that you cannot be feared, it's the stability tooltip that say it. Stability, being a boon, is subject to boon counterplay (boon rip, boon convertion, boon stealing...), and in case of boon convertion this specific boon is converted into fear (removing it and applying fear).

    As for Moa, it's a transformation skill and thus is not affected by stability so it just replace lich form when used against someone under lich form transformation (Wouldn't it be troublesome if you couldn't use lich form or death/reaper shroud due to the fact that they are transformation because you have stability?).

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2021

    Well reapers deadlier than warrior in melee range so why wouldn't it have a deadlier transform as well, anets balance....what a wonderful thing.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @John.8507 said:
    According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

    Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

    I personally think moa ignoring stab is stupid, but the skill itself is so bad nerfing it would be pointless.
    but the concept of having a counter to a counter seems kitten backwards to me, similar thing to shadow-meld. stupid by design

    I'm sorry Lich is counter to what?

    I ment as stability counter to CC, and moa ( cc ) counters stability.
    If anything it should be unblockable and ignore blind but be stopped by stability, would be more logically sound and less bad

  • Terrorhuz.4695Terrorhuz.4695 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @John.8507 said:
    According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

    Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

    I personally think moa ignoring stab is stupid, but the skill itself is so bad nerfing it would be pointless.
    but the concept of having a counter to a counter seems kitten backwards to me, similar thing to shadow-meld. stupid by design

    I'm sorry Lich is counter to what?

    I ment as stability counter to CC, and moa ( cc ) counters stability.
    If anything it should be unblockable and ignore blind but be stopped by stability, would be more logically sound and less bad

    Please no, how am I supposed to deal with flamethrower scrappers then? Grillers are strong

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @John.8507 said:
    According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

    Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

    I personally think moa ignoring stab is stupid, but the skill itself is so bad nerfing it would be pointless.
    but the concept of having a counter to a counter seems kitten backwards to me, similar thing to shadow-meld. stupid by design

    I'm sorry Lich is counter to what?

    I ment as stability counter to CC, and moa ( cc ) counters stability.
    If anything it should be unblockable and ignore blind but be stopped by stability, would be more logically sound and less bad

    Please no, how am I supposed to deal with flamethrower scrappers then? Grillers are strong

    I guess Shadow Meld is okay then? :P

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @John.8507 said:
    According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

    Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

    I personally think moa ignoring stab is stupid, but the skill itself is so bad nerfing it would be pointless.
    but the concept of having a counter to a counter seems kitten backwards to me, similar thing to shadow-meld. stupid by design

    I'm sorry Lich is counter to what?

    I ment as stability counter to CC, and moa ( cc ) counters stability.
    If anything it should be unblockable and ignore blind but be stopped by stability, would be more logically sound and less bad

    That’d be insanely broken. Dodging, blinding, and blocking are perfect counters to Moa

  • Terrorhuz.4695Terrorhuz.4695 Member ✭✭✭

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @John.8507 said:
    According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

    Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

    I personally think moa ignoring stab is stupid, but the skill itself is so bad nerfing it would be pointless.
    but the concept of having a counter to a counter seems kitten backwards to me, similar thing to shadow-meld. stupid by design

    I'm sorry Lich is counter to what?

    I ment as stability counter to CC, and moa ( cc ) counters stability.
    If anything it should be unblockable and ignore blind but be stopped by stability, would be more logically sound and less bad

    Please no, how am I supposed to deal with flamethrower scrappers then? Grillers are strong

    I guess Shadow Meld is okay then? :P

    IDK dude, I'm a mesmer, my job is to die when a shadow melder spawns :(

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @John.8507 said:
    According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

    Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

    I personally think moa ignoring stab is stupid, but the skill itself is so bad nerfing it would be pointless.
    but the concept of having a counter to a counter seems kitten backwards to me, similar thing to shadow-meld. stupid by design

    I'm sorry Lich is counter to what?

    I ment as stability counter to CC, and moa ( cc ) counters stability.
    If anything it should be unblockable and ignore blind but be stopped by stability, would be more logically sound and less bad

    That’d be insanely broken. Dodging, blinding, and blocking are perfect counters to Moa

    yes, 180s cd 1s cast time would be insanely broken indeed, its stupid that random proc of blind or aegis can deny you 180s cd skill while something that is ment to deny CC ( stab ) cant do kitten

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @John.8507 said:
    According to the skill notes when your in this form you can't be feared, but that happens where you get feared, all so turned in to a moa as well which seems like it shouldn't happen

    Why shouldn't that happen? Seeing a giant fearsome lich and turning it into a bird is, other than perfectly legit counterplay, one of the funniest things you can get out of this game.

    I personally think moa ignoring stab is stupid, but the skill itself is so bad nerfing it would be pointless.
    but the concept of having a counter to a counter seems kitten backwards to me, similar thing to shadow-meld. stupid by design

    I'm sorry Lich is counter to what?

    I ment as stability counter to CC, and moa ( cc ) counters stability.
    If anything it should be unblockable and ignore blind but be stopped by stability, would be more logically sound and less bad

    That’d be insanely broken. Dodging, blinding, and blocking are perfect counters to Moa

    yes, 180s cd 1s cast time would be insanely broken indeed, its stupid that random proc of blind or aegis can deny you 180s cd skill while something that is ment to deny CC ( stab ) cant do kitten

    Honestly, I doubt it would be broken even if Moa was still 10 seconds. It's already pretty much required to do Moa under CS because that cooldown is just too massive to risk being mitigated so easily by blocks and blinds.

  • Styros.8931Styros.8931 Member ✭✭✭

    whole necro is broken, specially fear zone, but who cares :joy:

  • ixora.3569ixora.3569 Member ✭✭

    It would be cool to make there shroud form a channel skill so you cant just panic F1.

  • Well yeah you cannot be feared and you shall not be feared lol. Cause you have pulsing stability, but it can get perma corrupted by another fellow necro, making it a fun to look at scenario.

    CHEEKYLA

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Well reapers deadlier than warrior in melee range so why wouldn't it have a deadlier transform as well, anets balance....what a wonderful thing.

    Rampage actually outtrades Lich because of the dmg reduction and extra vitality. If you land dash its even better. Lich doesnt get any dmg reduction after all.
    Same thing with Tornado btw. there you have too much stab.
    Rampage is the best transformation elite in a head to head with other transformation elites. It also last longer enabling to cc the Necro after his Lich form has ended.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Alabastrum.9361 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Well reapers deadlier than warrior in melee range so why wouldn't it have a deadlier transform as well, anets balance....what a wonderful thing.

    Rampage actually outtrades Lich because of the dmg reduction and extra vitality. If you land dash its even better. Lich doesnt get any dmg reduction after all.
    Same thing with Tornado btw. there you have too much stab.
    Rampage is the best transformation elite in a head to head with other transformation elites. It also last longer enabling to cc the Necro after his Lich form has ended.

    Naw I disagree, loch 100% is more effective in team fights and as a oh kitten button, rampage is extremely easy to kite and wait out.

  • @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Alabastrum.9361 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Well reapers deadlier than warrior in melee range so why wouldn't it have a deadlier transform as well, anets balance....what a wonderful thing.

    Rampage actually outtrades Lich because of the dmg reduction and extra vitality. If you land dash its even better. Lich doesnt get any dmg reduction after all.
    Same thing with Tornado btw. there you have too much stab.
    Rampage is the best transformation elite in a head to head with other transformation elites. It also last longer enabling to cc the Necro after his Lich form has ended.

    Naw I disagree, loch 100% is more effective in team fights and as a oh kitten button, rampage is extremely easy to kite and wait out.

    Which is Why I said in a head to head.
    In teamfights both Lich and nado are seen as more usefull by popular belive.

    Still rampage wont be useless as it will be able to pressure the person using the elite and also bodyblock Lich projectiles. Lich from non power necros are extra puny ofc.
    Again in a 1v1 its not even close.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Alabastrum.9361 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Alabastrum.9361 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Well reapers deadlier than warrior in melee range so why wouldn't it have a deadlier transform as well, anets balance....what a wonderful thing.

    Rampage actually outtrades Lich because of the dmg reduction and extra vitality. If you land dash its even better. Lich doesnt get any dmg reduction after all.
    Same thing with Tornado btw. there you have too much stab.
    Rampage is the best transformation elite in a head to head with other transformation elites. It also last longer enabling to cc the Necro after his Lich form has ended.

    Naw I disagree, loch 100% is more effective in team fights and as a oh kitten button, rampage is extremely easy to kite and wait out.

    Which is Why I said in a head to head.
    In teamfights both Lich and nado are seen as more usefull by popular belive.

    Still rampage wont be useless as it will be able to pressure the person using the elite and also bodyblock Lich projectiles. Lich from non power necros are extra puny ofc.
    Again in a 1v1 its not even close.

    As long as it's not agains a condi build than yes rampage can be decent in 1v1.

  • Markri.9475Markri.9475 Member ✭✭✭

    @Alabastrum.9361 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Alabastrum.9361 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Well reapers deadlier than warrior in melee range so why wouldn't it have a deadlier transform as well, anets balance....what a wonderful thing.

    Rampage actually outtrades Lich because of the dmg reduction and extra vitality. If you land dash its even better. Lich doesnt get any dmg reduction after all.
    Same thing with Tornado btw. there you have too much stab.
    Rampage is the best transformation elite in a head to head with other transformation elites. It also last longer enabling to cc the Necro after his Lich form has ended.

    Naw I disagree, loch 100% is more effective in team fights and as a oh kitten button, rampage is extremely easy to kite and wait out.

    Which is Why I said in a head to head.
    In teamfights both Lich and nado are seen as more usefull by popular belive.

    Still rampage wont be useless as it will be able to pressure the person using the elite and also bodyblock Lich projectiles. Lich from non power necros are extra puny ofc.
    Again in a 1v1 its not even close.

    bodyblocking; the AA pierces, so you are just taking extra damage on your team. Do Necro even use anything besides the AA?

  • @Markri.9475 said:

    @Alabastrum.9361 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Alabastrum.9361 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Well reapers deadlier than warrior in melee range so why wouldn't it have a deadlier transform as well, anets balance....what a wonderful thing.

    Rampage actually outtrades Lich because of the dmg reduction and extra vitality. If you land dash its even better. Lich doesnt get any dmg reduction after all.
    Same thing with Tornado btw. there you have too much stab.
    Rampage is the best transformation elite in a head to head with other transformation elites. It also last longer enabling to cc the Necro after his Lich form has ended.

    Naw I disagree, loch 100% is more effective in team fights and as a oh kitten button, rampage is extremely easy to kite and wait out.

    Which is Why I said in a head to head.
    In teamfights both Lich and nado are seen as more usefull by popular belive.

    Still rampage wont be useless as it will be able to pressure the person using the elite and also bodyblock Lich projectiles. Lich from non power necros are extra puny ofc.
    Again in a 1v1 its not even close.

    bodyblocking; the AA pierces, so you are just taking extra damage on your team. Do Necro even use anything besides the AA?

    You are actually right Lich AAs pierce. You can only bodyblock with reflects.
    By focusing the Lich you can cc if you time it with the stan application. or force a roll.

    Lich users should also spam 2 for extra dmg. (everyone should do that)
    3 is a AoE fear and should be uses against reflecting/blocking targets. I am not to familiar how the shadowstep on it workd tbh. I am onöy piloting Lich one day per half a year or sth.
    If there is too much Projectile hate skill 5 and even skill4 are also useful.