[Answered] Why did we get DRMs instead of new Strikes? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Living World

[Answered] Why did we get DRMs instead of new Strikes?

Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited December 10, 2020 in Living World

I don't understand why ANet repeatedly introduces "a new thing" only to abandon it soon after?

  • Dungeons: were replaced by Fractals :-1:
  • Bounties: were replaced by Strike Missions (okay, I never liked bounties to begin with)
  • Strikes: were replaced by Dragon Response Missions
  • WvW: also a neglected/abandoned child

A lot of players were expecting a new Strike Mission with this episode - I hope there will be one by the end. It's a great game mode.

Just stick to something I say. Dungeons were great, why the need for Fractals? Strike Missions were fun, why the need for DRMs, which are lengthy and boring to repeat?

<1

Comments

  • Aaralyna.3104Aaralyna.3104 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I guess they don't want to call DRM a strike mission because it is built to be able to solo it (and imagine the rage when players are forced to group up for story). And its more an open world event anyways (tho some strikes were similar, Visions of the Past in example). I do agree they should focus more on current and stick with it if its samey. But well devs may have some awesome idea thats completely different play in future and it would be a shame to say no directly to real innovative things.

    For WvW I agree they really have to do something. They mentioned alliances sooo long ago and kept say "more info in upcoming months" several times. I do not want to change my server but I do like to play WvW with friends which are spread out allover different servers. They should have just made some group up function like pvp teams and let you idk register for wvw so it just places you against other teams that registered or something, idk. And have solo players just fill in the empty spaces left.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Bounties were not replaced by strike missions. They’re were being phased out during LS4.

    DRMs have not replaced strikes unless there was some announcement that I missed that states otherwise.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2020

    @Raizel.1839 said:
    Because Anet likes to experiment on new things everytime instead of refining old ones, Strikes will become the new dungeons.

    I know, and that's exactly what I am criticizing. It was a rhethorical question. ;)

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Bounties were not replaced by strike missions. They’re were being phased out during LS4.

    When I say "replaced" I mean that ANet frequently drops one game mode and introduces a new one, and my point was that they should instead stick to an idea when it's good (like Dungeons and Strikes) and expand on it.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The DRMs are passable as current events. What I think happened is that they had planned to have actual episodes to finish out LS5 but covid hit and it proved difficult to develop content as they had before.

    I’m assuming that NCSoft is still set on the expansion being released at a specific target date so something had to give to make this happen which unfortunately was the last half of LS5. We’ll likely see current event level content up to the release of the expansion.

    I hope that I’m wrong about all of this but this is what it appears to be from my perspective.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2020

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Bounties were not replaced by strike missions. They’re were being phased out during LS4.

    When I say "replaced" I mean that ANet frequently drops one game mode and introduces a new one, and my point was that they should instead stick to an idea when it's good (like Dungeons and Strikes) and expand on it.

    Ok. “Dropped to do something else” is much different from “replaced”. I used the same meaning of “replaced” as you had used in the previous bullet point about fractals and dungeons. In that case, fractals has replaced dungeons. You’re using the word “replaced” through your post but giving what “replaced” means different meanings throughout.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2020

    I think they did all they intended with Strikes. They set up a range of difficulties and enough that they could rotate them with a days grace so that every day of the week wouldn't be the same as the previous week.

    I don't think it's a question of them dropping them, it's just they did everything they planned to do for this Season. 6 is a decent number to have and strikes (pun intended) a fair balance of how many to have. At the end of the day, there has to be a finite number and 6 was that number.

    They can now hopefully come back to these in EoD or LS6. Or backdate older content

    Also DRMs don't replace Strikes, they carry on the basic format Forged With Steel created, so in fact they are doing what people want - not abandoning ideas and carrying on with new ones. The bigger issue is, they didn't really do much with the content. DRMs are fairly basic, whilst Forged was much more varied and interesting (imo). Ultimately the two have coexisted since Visions, albeit under different names rather than one repalcing the other

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    They can now hopefully come back to these in EoD or LS6. Or backdate older content

    Unless they "delight" us with another great idea of the likes of DRMs. ;)

    Also DRMs don't replace Strikes, they carry on the basic format Forged With Steel created

    You have a valid point there. I didn't think of that.

    The bigger issue is, they didn't really do much with the content. DRM's are fairly basic, whilst Forged was much more varied and interesting (imo).

    :+1:

  • Shadowmoon.7986Shadowmoon.7986 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It probably takes 6 months to design any new content. If you could go back 6 month, you will probably see alot of threads saying we needed more strikes like forging steel and less like WoJ. DRM seem like the natural evolution of the forging steel strike. Of course in hindsight we see that forging steel and cold war are the least popular strikes, but once you spend 3 months building drms, you are kinda stuck finishing them.

  • radda.8920radda.8920 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2020

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    • Bounties: were replaced by Strike Missions (okay, I never liked bounties to begin with)

    No raids were replaced by strike missions
    bounties were never created as hm content. DRM doesn't replace anything at all, it's just content created quickly to pretend they're still working on the saga.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Bounties were not replaced by strike missions. They’re were being phased out during LS4.

    DRMs have not replaced strikes unless there was some announcement that I missed that states otherwise.

    I saw bounties as a mechanic of Elona and the Crystal Desert, notice how we had bounties up until we technically left the desert, Thunderhead Peak Dragonfall. The bounties were provided mainly be the order of shadows, so since we are out of those territories, no more bounties.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    alot of threads saying we needed more strikes like forging steel and less like WoJ.

    W00t?! I got the exact opposite impression.

  • Shadowmoon.7986Shadowmoon.7986 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    alot of threads saying we needed more strikes like forging steel and less like WoJ.

    W00t?! I got the exact opposite impression.

    Check the general forum tab around page 52, those are threads that were active when Forging steel came out. You get threads like "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/100657/story-strike-mission-was-a-clever-choice". Compare that the current threads about DRMs. At release, forging steel was meet with a positive reception.

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭✭

    People actually do strikes? I have done maybe three of them once. This game pve start to feel like those kitten dungeon crawler games where you just hang out in hub and go do some dungeons. God i hate those games. So lazy idea.

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I don't understand why ANet repeatedly introduces "a new thing" only to abandon it soon after?

    • Dungeons: were replaced by Fractals :-1:
    • Bounties: were replaced by Strike Missions (okay, I never liked bounties to begin with)
    • Strikes: were replaced by Dragon Response Missions
    • WvW: also a neglected/abandoned child

    A lot of players were expecting a new Strike Mission with this episode - I hope there will be one by the end. It's a great game mode.

    Just stick to something I say. Dungeons were great, why the need for Fractals? Strike Missions were fun, why the need for DRMs, which are lengthy and boring to repeat?

    Easy because apparently they laid of too much employee and senior staffs? Or maybe people quitting anet too. If you look at anet career post they look some people to fill crucial position. Which mean they are currently undermanned and of course we got underwhelming "new things" in result.
    They just doing the minimum (or below minimum maybe?) to hold community's interest like when they announce alliance to keep people hope but never deliver it.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Junkpile.7439 said:
    People actually do strikes?

    Yes, and when I do them I do enjoy them. ;) More than the DRMs, for sure.

  • @Junkpile.7439 said:
    People actually do strikes?

    I do them almost every day

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I think they did all they intended with Strikes. They set up a range of difficulties and enough that they could rotate them with a days grace so that every day of the week wouldn't be the same as the previous week.

    I don't think it's a question of them dropping them, it's just they did everything they planned to do for this Season. 6 is a decent number to have and strikes (pun intended) a fair balance of how many to have. At the end of the day, there has to be a finite number and 6 was that number.

    They can now hopefully come back to these in EoD or LS6. Or backdate older content

    Also DRMs don't replace Strikes, they carry on the basic format Forged With Steel created, so in fact they are doing what people want - not abandoning ideas and carrying on with new ones. The bigger issue is, they didn't really do much with the content. DRMs are fairly basic, whilst Forged was much more varied and interesting (imo). Ultimately the two have coexisted since Visions, albeit under different names rather than one repalcing the other

    If they stop with strikes rn or after 1 or 2 more the feature will be wasted. It has the potential to fill a space between the bigger time investment of raids and the way smaller time investment of fractals while also giving lw storng multiplayer sense and replayability.

    They should refine the design instead of dropping it entirely.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2020

    https://massivelyop.com/2020/11/17/flameseeker-chronicles-first-impressions-of-guild-wars-2s-icebrood-saga-truce/

    We asked ArenaNet’s representatives why this new type of instance is capped at 5 players rather than 10 like Steel and Fire. Their reason was that Steel and Fire, while designed to scale from 5-10 players, becomes much more challenging in smaller groups, a frustrating experience that I think a lot of players have shared. They found that the mechanics scale much better in the 1-5 player range. While ArenaNet did not mention this, I think it is also important to note that allowing the player to complete this content solo also makes it possible for the dragon response missions to become part of the story without feeling like a content type bait-and-switch.

    ...

    ArenaNet was quick to assure us that the purpose of dragon response missions was not to replace fractals or strikes, but as something new and different, and that they have no plans to discontinue work on those any time soon.

    See article

  • Blude.6812Blude.6812 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Both could be removed from the game and would be no loss for me.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    https://massivelyop.com/2020/11/17/flameseeker-chronicles-first-impressions-of-guild-wars-2s-icebrood-saga-truce/

    ArenaNet was quick to assure us that the purpose of dragon response missions was not to replace fractals or strikes, but as something new and different, and that they have no plans to discontinue work on those any time soon.

    Thank you for this information! <3

  • Here is my opinion on strikes.

    The team shifted off of strikes after they created Whisper (Which was a great stepping stone to raids). They then created forging steel and cold war, which shouldn't even be classified as strike missions. Literally the only thing that is raid-like about them is a 10 man squad. No challenge, no mechanics, no heals, no tank.

    I would have thought that since strike missions are supposed to be "stepping stones to raids in order to make the raiding community healthier and grow." the next logical step would be for a strike mission that requires you to have a tank, since over half of all raids require one, if not two.

    Instead they gave us a long as heck 10 man instance that takes 30-45 minutes to complete in FS followed by a tower defense simulator in CW.

    Strikes were a fantastic concept, Anet just went too far away from the actual 10 man model in the last two releases, which is why it hasn't been well received lately. If they go back to focusing on an encounter that requires boons, heals and a tank, it will be just great for our raiding community as a whole.

  • I think with DRMs ANet tries to avoid the mistake of season 1: creating new content on existing maps but keep it replayable. A point which is often raised with season 1: it cannot be replayed with some small exceptions. With DRMs the game designers do not have to create new map material to further the story, especially since Kryta seems home to Primordus.
    So DRMs are no replacement for strikes or whatever but just a way to reuse parts of the map anew and to keep these parts playable without cluttering the old maps further with more content like the aftermath of Joko, Ley-Anomaly, etc.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I’m hoping that these will play better once Champions is complete and all 4 parts are released.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Steel and Fire along with DRMs have been great because it is new content that can be done solo. Although the former is too long and the latter is kitten rewards.

    The Icebrood Saga has been a mess in every implemented feature save for the Prologue. It is like witnessing the quality standard of released content diminish to Season 2 and 1 levels. It is the culmination of everything bad about Sun's Refuge implemented into a full season.

    Let's hope they never do that again. Go back to the reliable quality of S3, S4 (Not you, Domain of Kourna map!), and expansion releases.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DKRathalos.9625 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I don't understand why ANet repeatedly introduces "a new thing" only to abandon it soon after?

    • Dungeons: were replaced by Fractals :-1:
    • Bounties: were replaced by Strike Missions (okay, I never liked bounties to begin with)
    • Strikes: were replaced by Dragon Response Missions
    • WvW: also a neglected/abandoned child

    A lot of players were expecting a new Strike Mission with this episode - I hope there will be one by the end. It's a great game mode.

    Just stick to something I say. Dungeons were great, why the need for Fractals? Strike Missions were fun, why the need for DRMs, which are lengthy and boring to repeat?

    Easy because apparently they laid of too much employee and senior staffs? Or maybe people quitting anet too. If you look at anet career post they look some people to fill crucial position. Which mean they are currently undermanned and of course we got underwhelming "new things" in result.
    They just doing the minimum (or below minimum maybe?) to hold community's interest like when they announce alliance to keep people hope but never deliver it.

    Layoffs had nothing to do with GW2. I really wish people would stop saying so.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @DKRathalos.9625 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I don't understand why ANet repeatedly introduces "a new thing" only to abandon it soon after?

    • Dungeons: were replaced by Fractals :-1:
    • Bounties: were replaced by Strike Missions (okay, I never liked bounties to begin with)
    • Strikes: were replaced by Dragon Response Missions
    • WvW: also a neglected/abandoned child

    A lot of players were expecting a new Strike Mission with this episode - I hope there will be one by the end. It's a great game mode.

    Just stick to something I say. Dungeons were great, why the need for Fractals? Strike Missions were fun, why the need for DRMs, which are lengthy and boring to repeat?

    Easy because apparently they laid of too much employee and senior staffs? Or maybe people quitting anet too. If you look at anet career post they look some people to fill crucial position. Which mean they are currently undermanned and of course we got underwhelming "new things" in result.
    They just doing the minimum (or below minimum maybe?) to hold community's interest like when they announce alliance to keep people hope but never deliver it.

    Layoffs had nothing to do with GW2. I really wish people would stop saying so.

    they were on GW2 payroll, but they were working on "other projects". that is not "nothing".this means is a lot of content missing from THIS game.
    content they are sorely missing now.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2021

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @DKRathalos.9625 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I don't understand why ANet repeatedly introduces "a new thing" only to abandon it soon after?

    • Dungeons: were replaced by Fractals :-1:
    • Bounties: were replaced by Strike Missions (okay, I never liked bounties to begin with)
    • Strikes: were replaced by Dragon Response Missions
    • WvW: also a neglected/abandoned child

    A lot of players were expecting a new Strike Mission with this episode - I hope there will be one by the end. It's a great game mode.

    Just stick to something I say. Dungeons were great, why the need for Fractals? Strike Missions were fun, why the need for DRMs, which are lengthy and boring to repeat?

    Easy because apparently they laid of too much employee and senior staffs? Or maybe people quitting anet too. If you look at anet career post they look some people to fill crucial position. Which mean they are currently undermanned and of course we got underwhelming "new things" in result.
    They just doing the minimum (or below minimum maybe?) to hold community's interest like when they announce alliance to keep people hope but never deliver it.

    Layoffs had nothing to do with GW2. I really wish people would stop saying so.

    they were on GW2 payroll, but they were working on "other projects". that is not "nothing".this means is a lot of content missing from THIS game.
    content they are sorely missing now.

    How does people who worked on other projects unrelated to GW2 mean missing content from GW2 when they were laid off? Those same people working on other projects were likely doing that during LS4 too.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2021

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    How does people who worked on other projects unrelated to GW2 mean missing content from GW2 when they were laid off? Those same people working on other projects were likely doing that during LS4 too.

    As GW2's is Arenanet primary source of income (if not their only source), it means those side projects were financed with GW2 money.
    This means, money that had been made with GW2 had not been used to make content or other things for GW2.

    Imagine these people had worked on GW2 instead of the now-cancelled side projects (which resulted in loss of the GW2 money spent on them).
    One can easily consider that "missing content".

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    How does people who worked on other projects unrelated to GW2 mean missing content from GW2 when they were laid off? Those same people working on other projects were likely doing that during LS4 too.

    As GW2's is Arenanet primary source of income (if not their only source), it means those side projects were financed with GW2 money.
    This means, money that had been made with GW2 had not been used to make content or other things for GW2.

    Imagine these people had worked on GW2 instead of the now-cancelled side projects (which resulted in loss of the GW2 money spent on them).
    One can easily consider that "missing content".

    So since gw2 was made with money from gw1 do we then get to blame gw2 for no more gw1?
    Its kinda silly to think that they need to branch out to survive.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2021

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    How does people who worked on other projects unrelated to GW2 mean missing content from GW2 when they were laid off? Those same people working on other projects were likely doing that during LS4 too.

    As GW2's is Arenanet primary source of income (if not their only source), it means those side projects were financed with GW2 money.
    This means, money that had been made with GW2 had not been used to make content or other things for GW2.

    Imagine these people had worked on GW2 instead of the now-cancelled side projects (which resulted in loss of the GW2 money spent on them).
    One can easily consider that "missing content".

    If the side projects were financed directly by Arenanet then NCSoft wouldn't force them to lay off those people. Or at the very least tell them to allocate them back into Guild Wars 2. It's more likely that NCSoft financed those projects, at least in part, and when they saw they were going nowhere they ordered Anet to scrap them. It's how Guild Wars 2 itself was funded with money from other NCSoft games. GW1 stopped earning "good" money YEARS before the release of Guild Wars 2, so it's unlikely GW2 was funded by GW1 earnings.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:
    So since gw2 was made with money from gw1 do we then get to blame gw2 for no more gw1?
    Its kinda silly to think that they need to branch out to survive.

    Yes, we get to "blame" GW2 for them stopping making additional content for GW1.
    But unlike GW1, which Arenanet considered to be done at that point, GW2 is still growing in content, albeit ever so slowly with droplets of living world.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    How does people who worked on other projects unrelated to GW2 mean missing content from GW2 when they were laid off? Those same people working on other projects were likely doing that during LS4 too.

    As GW2's is Arenanet primary source of income (if not their only source), it means those side projects were financed with GW2 money.
    This means, money that had been made with GW2 had not been used to make content or other things for GW2.

    Imagine these people had worked on GW2 instead of the now-cancelled side projects (which resulted in loss of the GW2 money spent on them).
    One can easily consider that "missing content".

    If the side projects were financed directly by Arenanet then NCSoft wouldn't force them to lay off those people. Or at the very least tell them to allocate them back into Guild Wars 2. It's more likely that NCSoft financed those projects, at least in part, and when they saw they were going nowhere they ordered Anet to scrap them. It's how Guild Wars 2 itself was funded with money from other NCSoft games. GW1 stopped earning "good" money YEARS before the release of Guild Wars 2, so it's unlikely GW2 was funded by GW1 earnings.

    the problem still remains, you have people , that arent working on the game= missing content.
    and if ncsoft were paying them, what happened to the rest of the money?

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @DKRathalos.9625 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I don't understand why ANet repeatedly introduces "a new thing" only to abandon it soon after?

    • Dungeons: were replaced by Fractals :-1:
    • Bounties: were replaced by Strike Missions (okay, I never liked bounties to begin with)
    • Strikes: were replaced by Dragon Response Missions
    • WvW: also a neglected/abandoned child

    A lot of players were expecting a new Strike Mission with this episode - I hope there will be one by the end. It's a great game mode.

    Just stick to something I say. Dungeons were great, why the need for Fractals? Strike Missions were fun, why the need for DRMs, which are lengthy and boring to repeat?

    Easy because apparently they laid of too much employee and senior staffs? Or maybe people quitting anet too. If you look at anet career post they look some people to fill crucial position. Which mean they are currently undermanned and of course we got underwhelming "new things" in result.
    They just doing the minimum (or below minimum maybe?) to hold community's interest like when they announce alliance to keep people hope but never deliver it.

    Layoffs had nothing to do with GW2. I really wish people would stop saying so.

    they were on GW2 payroll, but they were working on "other projects". that is not "nothing".this means is a lot of content missing from THIS game.
    content they are sorely missing now.

    How does people who worked on other projects unrelated to GW2 mean missing content from GW2 when they were laid off? Those same people working on other projects were likely doing that during LS4 too.

    have you ever worked ? next time youre getting you car fixed, try to convince the mechanic to fix your boat engine too , without paying extra
    a job is a job....not 2 jobs

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    How does people who worked on other projects unrelated to GW2 mean missing content from GW2 when they were laid off? Those same people working on other projects were likely doing that during LS4 too.

    As GW2's is Arenanet primary source of income (if not their only source), it means those side projects were financed with GW2 money.
    This means, money that had been made with GW2 had not been used to make content or other things for GW2.

    Imagine these people had worked on GW2 instead of the now-cancelled side projects (which resulted in loss of the GW2 money spent on them).
    One can easily consider that "missing content".

    If the side projects were financed directly by Arenanet then NCSoft wouldn't force them to lay off those people. Or at the very least tell them to allocate them back into Guild Wars 2. It's more likely that NCSoft financed those projects, at least in part, and when they saw they were going nowhere they ordered Anet to scrap them. It's how Guild Wars 2 itself was funded with money from other NCSoft games. GW1 stopped earning "good" money YEARS before the release of Guild Wars 2, so it's unlikely GW2 was funded by GW1 earnings.

    the problem still remains, you have people , that arent working on the game= missing content.

    That's like saying all the thousand developers that are working on other companies and aren't working for Arenanet = missing content. Also, you do understand that there are people working at Arenanet that aren't directly involved in making content right?

    and if ncsoft were paying them, what happened to the rest of the money?

    What rest of the money? NCSoft gets all the money, including what money Anet is making, then invests the money back on their projects. They were paying the Guild Wars 2 development team for almost 6 years, with very little return, that's how investment in games works. Then when they saw the new projects of Anet weren't progressing as fast as expected, they ordered them cancelled.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @DKRathalos.9625 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I don't understand why ANet repeatedly introduces "a new thing" only to abandon it soon after?

    • Dungeons: were replaced by Fractals :-1:
    • Bounties: were replaced by Strike Missions (okay, I never liked bounties to begin with)
    • Strikes: were replaced by Dragon Response Missions
    • WvW: also a neglected/abandoned child

    A lot of players were expecting a new Strike Mission with this episode - I hope there will be one by the end. It's a great game mode.

    Just stick to something I say. Dungeons were great, why the need for Fractals? Strike Missions were fun, why the need for DRMs, which are lengthy and boring to repeat?

    Easy because apparently they laid of too much employee and senior staffs? Or maybe people quitting anet too. If you look at anet career post they look some people to fill crucial position. Which mean they are currently undermanned and of course we got underwhelming "new things" in result.
    They just doing the minimum (or below minimum maybe?) to hold community's interest like when they announce alliance to keep people hope but never deliver it.

    Layoffs had nothing to do with GW2. I really wish people would stop saying so.

    they were on GW2 payroll, but they were working on "other projects". that is not "nothing".this means is a lot of content missing from THIS game.
    content they are sorely missing now.

    How does people who worked on other projects unrelated to GW2 mean missing content from GW2 when they were laid off? Those same people working on other projects were likely doing that during LS4 too.

    have you ever worked ? next time youre getting you car fixed, try to convince the mechanic to fix your boat engine too , without paying extra
    a job is a job....not 2 jobs

    That metaphor doesn't even work.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Honestly. I like Strikes and DRMs. I like that there are short but challenging group content like Strikes, and I like that there are short but rewarding content like DRMs.

    I hope BOTH get updated with more added and that neither get left to rot. I sincerely hope that EoD brings us more of each. I also wouldn't mind more strikes like Forging Steel that can be soloed, simply because I prefer to solo content and I like the challenge.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Honestly. I like Strikes and DRMs. I like that there are short but challenging group content like Strikes, and I like that there are short but rewarding content like DRMs.

    I hope BOTH get updated with more added and that neither get left to rot. I sincerely hope that EoD brings us more of each. I also wouldn't mind more strikes like Forging Steel that can be soloed, simply because I prefer to solo content and I like the challenge.

    How are DRMs rewarding?

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    How does people who worked on other projects unrelated to GW2 mean missing content from GW2 when they were laid off? Those same people working on other projects were likely doing that during LS4 too.

    As GW2's is Arenanet primary source of income (if not their only source), it means those side projects were financed with GW2 money.
    This means, money that had been made with GW2 had not been used to make content or other things for GW2.

    Imagine these people had worked on GW2 instead of the now-cancelled side projects (which resulted in loss of the GW2 money spent on them).
    One can easily consider that "missing content".

    As I said in my post, they were working on these side projects during LS4 and yet comments were made that this has impacted content now rather than back then. This doesn’t make much sense.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @DKRathalos.9625 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I don't understand why ANet repeatedly introduces "a new thing" only to abandon it soon after?

    • Dungeons: were replaced by Fractals :-1:
    • Bounties: were replaced by Strike Missions (okay, I never liked bounties to begin with)
    • Strikes: were replaced by Dragon Response Missions
    • WvW: also a neglected/abandoned child

    A lot of players were expecting a new Strike Mission with this episode - I hope there will be one by the end. It's a great game mode.

    Just stick to something I say. Dungeons were great, why the need for Fractals? Strike Missions were fun, why the need for DRMs, which are lengthy and boring to repeat?

    Easy because apparently they laid of too much employee and senior staffs? Or maybe people quitting anet too. If you look at anet career post they look some people to fill crucial position. Which mean they are currently undermanned and of course we got underwhelming "new things" in result.
    They just doing the minimum (or below minimum maybe?) to hold community's interest like when they announce alliance to keep people hope but never deliver it.

    Layoffs had nothing to do with GW2. I really wish people would stop saying so.

    they were on GW2 payroll, but they were working on "other projects". that is not "nothing".this means is a lot of content missing from THIS game.
    content they are sorely missing now.

    You're on record as saying you cannot manage the difficulty of any content past Core.
    And you think there's a content drought?

    "We recognize that some players are not able to complete all content." Gaile Gray 01.10.19

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    How does people who worked on other projects unrelated to GW2 mean missing content from GW2 when they were laid off? Those same people working on other projects were likely doing that during LS4 too.

    As GW2's is Arenanet primary source of income (if not their only source), it means those side projects were financed with GW2 money.
    This means, money that had been made with GW2 had not been used to make content or other things for GW2.

    Imagine these people had worked on GW2 instead of the now-cancelled side projects (which resulted in loss of the GW2 money spent on them).
    One can easily consider that "missing content".

    If the side projects were financed directly by Arenanet then NCSoft wouldn't force them to lay off those people. Or at the very least tell them to allocate them back into Guild Wars 2. It's more likely that NCSoft financed those projects, at least in part, and when they saw they were going nowhere they ordered Anet to scrap them. It's how Guild Wars 2 itself was funded with money from other NCSoft games. GW1 stopped earning "good" money YEARS before the release of Guild Wars 2, so it's unlikely GW2 was funded by GW1 earnings.

    the problem still remains, you have people , that arent working on the game= missing content.

    That's like saying all the thousand developers that are working on other companies and aren't working for Arenanet = missing content. Also, you do understand that there are people working at Arenanet that aren't directly involved in making content right?

    and if ncsoft were paying them, what happened to the rest of the money?

    What rest of the money? NCSoft gets all the money, including what money Anet is making, then invests the money back on their projects. They were paying the Guild Wars 2 development team for almost 6 years, with very little return, that's how investment in games works. Then when they saw the new projects of Anet weren't progressing as fast as expected, they ordered them cancelled.

    but those other developers arent on anets payroll, and arent funded by THIS game. when we were paying anet, they didnt invest much of the money here, but in other projects. in short: we paid for something, we didnt get. there is a word for that behavior, and it isnt pretty one. i would love to hear , when thos other projects started,
    how many years they went on. and if ncsoft were paying for it, then anet didnt have to fire them either.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @DKRathalos.9625 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I don't understand why ANet repeatedly introduces "a new thing" only to abandon it soon after?

    • Dungeons: were replaced by Fractals :-1:
    • Bounties: were replaced by Strike Missions (okay, I never liked bounties to begin with)
    • Strikes: were replaced by Dragon Response Missions
    • WvW: also a neglected/abandoned child

    A lot of players were expecting a new Strike Mission with this episode - I hope there will be one by the end. It's a great game mode.

    Just stick to something I say. Dungeons were great, why the need for Fractals? Strike Missions were fun, why the need for DRMs, which are lengthy and boring to repeat?

    Easy because apparently they laid of too much employee and senior staffs? Or maybe people quitting anet too. If you look at anet career post they look some people to fill crucial position. Which mean they are currently undermanned and of course we got underwhelming "new things" in result.
    They just doing the minimum (or below minimum maybe?) to hold community's interest like when they announce alliance to keep people hope but never deliver it.

    Layoffs had nothing to do with GW2. I really wish people would stop saying so.

    they were on GW2 payroll, but they were working on "other projects". that is not "nothing".this means is a lot of content missing from THIS game.
    content they are sorely missing now.

    You're on record as saying you cannot manage the difficulty of any content past Core.
    And you think there's a content drought?

    some of it i can do, otherwise i wouldnt have upgraded mounts and both elite specs on several classes. and there is definately a content drought regarding
    easy content. no new classes, no new races, balance patches almost non existant, pvp/WwW content is neglected, and the latest DRMs are clearly the minimum
    standard for content. but hey, everything is just fine, right?

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @DKRathalos.9625 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I don't understand why ANet repeatedly introduces "a new thing" only to abandon it soon after?

    • Dungeons: were replaced by Fractals :-1:
    • Bounties: were replaced by Strike Missions (okay, I never liked bounties to begin with)
    • Strikes: were replaced by Dragon Response Missions
    • WvW: also a neglected/abandoned child

    A lot of players were expecting a new Strike Mission with this episode - I hope there will be one by the end. It's a great game mode.

    Just stick to something I say. Dungeons were great, why the need for Fractals? Strike Missions were fun, why the need for DRMs, which are lengthy and boring to repeat?

    Easy because apparently they laid of too much employee and senior staffs? Or maybe people quitting anet too. If you look at anet career post they look some people to fill crucial position. Which mean they are currently undermanned and of course we got underwhelming "new things" in result.
    They just doing the minimum (or below minimum maybe?) to hold community's interest like when they announce alliance to keep people hope but never deliver it.

    Layoffs had nothing to do with GW2. I really wish people would stop saying so.

    they were on GW2 payroll, but they were working on "other projects". that is not "nothing".this means is a lot of content missing from THIS game.
    content they are sorely missing now.

    How does people who worked on other projects unrelated to GW2 mean missing content from GW2 when they were laid off? Those same people working on other projects were likely doing that during LS4 too.

    have you ever worked ? next time youre getting you car fixed, try to convince the mechanic to fix your boat engine too , without paying extra
    a job is a job....not 2 jobs

    That metaphor doesn't even work.

    one person understood it, so clearly, it does. do you want to work without getting paid for it? do you want to pay for NOTHING?

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @DKRathalos.9625 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I don't understand why ANet repeatedly introduces "a new thing" only to abandon it soon after?

    • Dungeons: were replaced by Fractals :-1:
    • Bounties: were replaced by Strike Missions (okay, I never liked bounties to begin with)
    • Strikes: were replaced by Dragon Response Missions
    • WvW: also a neglected/abandoned child

    A lot of players were expecting a new Strike Mission with this episode - I hope there will be one by the end. It's a great game mode.

    Just stick to something I say. Dungeons were great, why the need for Fractals? Strike Missions were fun, why the need for DRMs, which are lengthy and boring to repeat?

    Easy because apparently they laid of too much employee and senior staffs? Or maybe people quitting anet too. If you look at anet career post they look some people to fill crucial position. Which mean they are currently undermanned and of course we got underwhelming "new things" in result.
    They just doing the minimum (or below minimum maybe?) to hold community's interest like when they announce alliance to keep people hope but never deliver it.

    Layoffs had nothing to do with GW2. I really wish people would stop saying so.

    they were on GW2 payroll, but they were working on "other projects". that is not "nothing".this means is a lot of content missing from THIS game.
    content they are sorely missing now.

    You're on record as saying you cannot manage the difficulty of any content past Core.
    And you think there's a content drought?

    some of it i can do, otherwise i wouldnt have upgraded mounts and both elite specs on several classes. and there is definately a content drought regarding
    easy content. no new classes, no new races, balance patches almost non existant, pvp/WwW content is neglected, and the latest DRMs are clearly the minimum
    standard for content. but hey, everything is just fine, right?

    I thought DRMs would be right up your ally its as close to core they have got in a long time.

  • @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Honestly. I like Strikes and DRMs. I like that there are short but challenging group content like Strikes, and I like that there are short but rewarding content like DRMs.

    I hope BOTH get updated with more added and that neither get left to rot. I sincerely hope that EoD brings us more of each. I also wouldn't mind more strikes like Forging Steel that can be soloed, simply because I prefer to solo content and I like the challenge.

    But DRMs are neither short nor rewarding... You spend just as much time as good T4 fractal run and you get a bunch of trash (also literally) as a reward.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    but those other developers arent on anets payroll, and arent funded by THIS game. when we were paying anet, they didnt invest much of the money here, but in other projects. in short: we paid for something, we didnt get. there is a word for that behavior, and it isnt pretty one. i would love to hear , when thos other projects started,
    how many years they went on. and if ncsoft were paying for it, then anet didnt have to fire them either.

    You are paying NCSoft (not Anet), just like every players of an NCSoft game. Then it's up to NCSoft to spent that money on projects. And I will repeat that's how Guild Wars 2 was created in the first place, with money from games like Aion, Lineage and Lineage 2. That's how gaming works because video games are expensive and take years to create, which is why video games are investments. And beyond that, Anet released GW2 with at most 200 employees, and reached 436 employees total in early 2019 (before the layoffs), then went down to 293 after they laid off 143 employees. Notice that they still had (after the layoffs) more employees than they did have on release or during HOT. And given Anet's revenue was in a decline, we were getting more than what we were paying (compared to the past) So get your facts straight

  • Hypnowulf.7403Hypnowulf.7403 Member ✭✭✭

    I think whether strikes come back or not is all down to whether they're profitable. It's something I've said before but it bears saying again. ArenaNet has this data—it's a simple matter for them to look at it and draw a conclusion about what content will keep them afloat in the future. As I've also pointed out, NCSoft is their parent corporation and as it is whenever a business is owned, ArenaNet has to contend with their greed.

    If you look at a game like WildStar—it was a game entirely made up of forced grouping. It had no other content, really, it was very similar to classic WoW in a lot of ways and it flopped, hard. It's because the majority of players who want to play WoW will... Well, I mean they're going to be playing WoW, aren't they? It caters to them.

    That means that the people who enjoy forced grouping content are always a minuscule minority in any game other than WoW. It's become obvious that optional grouping is the way to go—that means open wrold events, story missions, and something like the DRMs. All of these are open to not only solo play, but small group play of 1-3 players. I feel that's going to be the most common group size, with 1-2 being even moreso as some will play solo whereas others will play with their partner.

    Another issue is that casual players buy things. I've spoken with people who tend to grind, even on the lesser end of the raid spectrum, and they have more gold than they know what to do with. So what do they do? They convert their gold to gems. By doing this, they remove themselves as a profitable demographic.

    Consider Guild Wars 1. It continues to be run only thanks to NCSoft's good graces. By not being a true MMORPG, it costs very little to just keep the servers running. The good will generated by those who play both it and Guild Wars 2 likely looks good enough on paper. I'm not one of those people, but I suspect they're worried they might lose paying Guild Wars 2 customers if they shut it down and the risk of shutting it down when its operating costs are so low aren't worth it.

    However, Guild Wars 1 has no new content being developed for it of any size. Why? It isn't profitable. NCSoft is very much about their bottom-line. That's not surprising if you consider that they're a publically traded company. This means that ArenaNet also has to consider NCSoft's bottom-line, because if they don't? A lot of people will be out of a lot of jobs. It's important to keep the game profitable so that these people stay employed.

    If strikes are profitable then they might very well return in End of Dragons. If they're not, then DRM style content might be the replacement for them as they can at least appeal to small group (1-3) players in this content in ways that they can't with strikes.

    I think the most preferable choice is for ArenaNet to continue to exist. It's a lot of jobs lost otherwise and I'm personally very fond of the stories they tell. That's why whenever I can I do tend to drop a lot of money on the gem store, whenever I'm in a position to I do that. I want to do whatever I can to help make that bottom-line look a little bit more rosy. I care about ArenaNet and their continued existence.

    Frankly, I've become very fond of the lot of them.

    So here's what I'll say: If your goal is to have strikes persist, even to flourish? Don't post on the forums about it. It doesn't change anything—there are long-time fans here who'll tell you that, it never does. The reason why is basically what I've already said, that ArenaNet can look at their data and link gauge the profitability of content-type. No opinion is going to be more compelling than that hard evidence. So what do you do?

    Buy gems. If you want your favourite game mode to do better, buy gems. Be profitable. I don't mind! I don't mind if you have more of a focus in upcoming content. I just want Guild Wars 2 to survive. I'm being sincere here. I don't care if it means less content for me so long as I can continue to enjoy the main storyline. I'm not telling you this because I'm entitled, it's... kind of the opposite of that? I'm telling you this because I understand my privilege. It's a privilege casual players have by being profitable.

    So be profitable! It's up to you, really.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Snip

    Another issue is that casual players buy things. I've spoken with people who tend to grind, even on the lesser end of the raid spectrum, and they have more gold than they know what to do with. So what do they do? They convert their gold to gems. By doing this, they remove themselves as a profitable demographic.

    Snip

    I said it before I will say it again, without those people trading gold for gems people would not buy gems to trade for gold since they would get no gold for their gems.

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:
    but those other developers arent on anets payroll, and arent funded by THIS game. when we were paying anet, they didnt invest much of the money here, but in other projects. in short: we paid for something, we didnt get. there is a word for that behavior, and it isnt pretty one. i would love to hear , when thos other projects started,
    how many years they went on. and if ncsoft were paying for it, then anet didnt have to fire them either.

    You are paying NCSoft (not Anet), just like every players of an NCSoft game. Then it's up to NCSoft to spent that money on projects. And I will repeat that's how Guild Wars 2 was created in the first place, with money from games like Aion, Lineage and Lineage 2. That's how gaming works because video games are expensive and take years to create, which is why video games are investments. And beyond that, Anet released GW2 with at most 200 employees, and reached 436 employees total in early 2019 (before the layoffs), then went down to 293 after they laid off 143 employees. Notice that they still had (after the layoffs) more employees than they did have on release or during HOT. And given Anet's revenue was in a decline, we were getting more than what we were paying (compared to the past) So get your facts straight

    wow. if ncsoft really had another project, wouldnt they had hired a new team for it, so anet could focus their resources on this game??
    and ncsoft is a huge company, they surely would have the resources to finish a project with a a few hundred employees, instead of just ditching it , and taking a loss
    perhaps you are happy to pay for vaporware, but i am not

  • battledrone.8315battledrone.8315 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @mindcircus.1506 said:

    @battledrone.8315 said:

    @kharmin.7683 said:

    @DKRathalos.9625 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I don't understand why ANet repeatedly introduces "a new thing" only to abandon it soon after?

    • Dungeons: were replaced by Fractals :-1:
    • Bounties: were replaced by Strike Missions (okay, I never liked bounties to begin with)
    • Strikes: were replaced by Dragon Response Missions
    • WvW: also a neglected/abandoned child

    A lot of players were expecting a new Strike Mission with this episode - I hope there will be one by the end. It's a great game mode.

    Just stick to something I say. Dungeons were great, why the need for Fractals? Strike Missions were fun, why the need for DRMs, which are lengthy and boring to repeat?

    Easy because apparently they laid of too much employee and senior staffs? Or maybe people quitting anet too. If you look at anet career post they look some people to fill crucial position. Which mean they are currently undermanned and of course we got underwhelming "new things" in result.
    They just doing the minimum (or below minimum maybe?) to hold community's interest like when they announce alliance to keep people hope but never deliver it.

    Layoffs had nothing to do with GW2. I really wish people would stop saying so.

    they were on GW2 payroll, but they were working on "other projects". that is not "nothing".this means is a lot of content missing from THIS game.
    content they are sorely missing now.

    You're on record as saying you cannot manage the difficulty of any content past Core.
    And you think there's a content drought?

    some of it i can do, otherwise i wouldnt have upgraded mounts and both elite specs on several classes. and there is definately a content drought regarding
    easy content. no new classes, no new races, balance patches almost non existant, pvp/WwW content is neglected, and the latest DRMs are clearly the minimum
    standard for content. but hey, everything is just fine, right?

    I thought DRMs would be right up your ally its as close to core they have got in a long time.

    havent tried one, and i am not going to either. from what i have read, they are long and unrewarding. no thanks.