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  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2021

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    Just one correction, rapidfire will not apply 25 vuln as the maximum it can apply is 10 stacks (1 by hit). Also each impact from the rapid fire is very weak (0.275 each for a total of 2.75), the only way that skill can be a real problem is eating a big bunch of arrows.

    Opening Strike.
    Well yea it's not 25, more like 20~

    Um then 15 stacks including Opening Strike or less , right? If the soulbeast is not merged then the +25% damage from Sicem! is lost.
    And that counting in you eat the full rapid fire channel. And you stay there doing nothing but look angrily at the pewpew in return.

    This comment may explain your shortcomings i advise you to read it.

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    And most people don't understand the counter profession/build system.

    If you are a power oneshot mesmer with 16k hp and you keep going against thieves and losing you cannot go cry on the forum how broken thief is because simply counters your profession and build.

    Same as thief going against sic'em rangers all day. You can't complain.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    This comment may explain your shortcomings i advise you to read it.

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    And most people don't understand the counter profession/build system.

    If you are a power oneshot mesmer with 16k hp and you keep going against thieves and losing you cannot go cry on the forum how broken thief is because simply counters your profession and build.

    Same as thief going against sic'em rangers all day. You can't complain.

    Which is great that you agree with it, seeing how it also applies to your complaints followed by your ridiculous ""rework"" idea you keep reposting. :mrgreen:

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2021

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    This comment may explain your shortcomings i advise you to read it.

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    And most people don't understand the counter profession/build system.

    If you are a power oneshot mesmer with 16k hp and you keep going against thieves and losing you cannot go cry on the forum how broken thief is because simply counters your profession and build.

    Same as thief going against sic'em rangers all day. You can't complain.

    Which is great that you agree with it, seeing how it also applies to your complaints followed by your ridiculous ""rework"" idea you keep reposting. :mrgreen:

    That doesn't address stealth being completely broken, when you need to buy bundles from the wvw vendor to fight the mechanic because nothing in game is good enough there is clearly a big problem.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2021

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    This comment may explain your shortcomings i advise you to read it.

    @whoknocks.4935 said:
    And most people don't understand the counter profession/build system.

    If you are a power oneshot mesmer with 16k hp and you keep going against thieves and losing you cannot go cry on the forum how broken thief is because simply counters your profession and build.

    Same as thief going against sic'em rangers all day. You can't complain.

    Which is great that you agree with it, seeing how it also applies to your complaints followed by your ridiculous ""rework"" idea you keep reposting. :mrgreen:

    That doesn't address stealth being completely broken, when you need to buy bundles from the wvw vendor to fight the mechanic because nothing in game is good enough there is clearly a big problem.

    There's a difference between "not wanting to buy bundles to counter a mechanic" and you trying to render the mechanic absolutely worthless for one class while leaving it mostly intact for your most played profession simply because you apparently lack the ability to point at the problematic parts of said mechanic. So yup, your lack of understanding of the mechanic that you claim you want to balance while you're simply gutting it for one class seems to be pretty relevant here.

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kash.9213 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @kash.9213 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    I think we all agree with the notion stealth is trash mechanic. Not only for thief but also for druid, dragon hunter and engineer.
    I'd like to say the stealth on dodge from Silent Scope and the revealed removal from Shadow Meld are very toxic mechanics at the same level of Ancient Seeds.

    But if Anet remove those mechanics the Deadeye will be really useless. And it will not address the main issue wich is a mechanic with no counter like it is stealth. Any other nerfs to the class will not work as the thief can circumvent all the nerfs to stealth or mobility (which is also an issue in a class with no cooldowns when it can reset the fight whenever they want but the enemies can't reset the cooldowns).

    As such i will again propose this:

    • First : While stealthed the character enters combat. This is very important as i'm able to mount while in stealth.
    • Deadeye converts all incoming stealth to extended Camouflage . For each application of stealth it is converted to camouflage plus additional seconds so the effect last longer. Camouflage makes the deadeye invisible but it can not perform any actions, not even movement. I gains stealth in Death's Retreat and in Shadow Flare and Shadow Swap which is a cantrip with no use. So everytime it uses a teleport can be seen for less than a second.
    • Stealth from thief and smoke fields only makes invisible to enemies farther than 600 units. Any enemy closer than that to the thief will be able to see the thief but not reveal it. A trait could be so the range is reduced to 300 only for the thief. This will fix not only the Thief but also any other means of stealth like the druid, the trapper runes, etc...
    • Stealth from mesmers works the other way around. The mesmer is invisible to enemies in a range of 600 with a trait to make it wider up to 900.

    And like that we fix many issues and open squad spots for thieves and mesmers, as the first will guarantee stealth while approaching while the other stealth on close.

    Or you could just tweak existing mechanics to actually have some meaning:

    • Each second someone remains in stealth adds a second to revealed which gets applied when the person exits stealth (either by attacking another player or stacked stealth expiring).

    And there you go. Problem solved. If a deadeye want to stay stealthed for 1 minute, he can be. But afterwards he cannot stealth for 1 minute. If a tp theif want to stealth for 5s, appear to do a single attack and stealth again then infinetily repeat it as they teleport back and forward... nope. You can stealth for 5 seconds sure. But that means you cant for 5 seconds.

    Simple and effective.

    That's a more realistic compromise. Silent scope isn't even that bad, you have spend Initiative bouncing out to keep distance or to swap and evade some which rifle doesn't have. Guy mentioning no cooldowns like everything is free is a good preview to the rest of his idea.

    I like your idea. But deadeye can remove the revealed with Shadow Meld. That elite has 2 charges. How are you proposing to fix that? Are you thinking now adding a new reveal which can't be removed? And then Anet adds a new stealth which can remove that reveal? That is the equivalent to power creep but for invisibility.

    That's why i thought about camouflage. The idea is to allow the DE to be stealthed for long periods of time with the only requirement to not to perform actions. Also Camouflage would fix the fact you only see the DE attacks when they hit you (with the only exception of Death Judgement which can be circumvented by using quickness so the 1 second precast is minimized) . Which means the DE can land an attack like Spotter's Shot from invisibility immobilise you then a Three Round Burst and go back into stealth while you are still bussy cleansing the immob.

    Camouflage would disappear as soon as the DE hit the action button in opposition to when the projectile hit you, which gives the player the opportunity to perform a counter play if the target is quick enough. Now the first impact is hit guaranteed. I understand the concept may be difficult to see but there is a big difference between stealth and camouflage.

    That's why i came up wit the idea of the visibility radius for normal stealth. The point is to give the target the possibility to dodge or perform an action and to understand what happened even if that margin is very slim. Right now i can one shot some glass eles or mesmers even before they can do anything.

    I see it as a very cheesy mechanic which i understand is very unfun to play against.

    I think his idea shouldn't have to take Shadow Meld into consideration because that Elite Skill should be replaced. A DE Elite skill should be something that strengthens Kneel stance, like adds some defense and counter measures and allows temporary slow movement in crouch or something. I've also suggested before having some kind of proximity visual filter (only visual, while stealth mechanics still apply) that would force a stealth user to plan their resources and utilities to land a deceptive opener or heavy hit, but then people would need to be cool with something like that being a thing, which they most likely wouldn't be and there would be endless threads about that.

    Honestly, I don't think it would need that either. If I hide in a keep then attack someone after more than a minute, having more than a minute of reveal as a result will absolutely force me to use shadow meld. That's one charge. I then have one charge to counter a reveal, and after that I am toast because against more than 1 player their reveals will be off cooldown before shadow meld is. I do agree kneel skills should be better than they are tho, but that's a separate thread.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Widmo.3186 said:
    To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period.

    Where did the thief hurt you ? Most of you aint even soloing cus you lack the skill. You run in a group and get picked out and come to the forum to complain. You have Zero experience and didnt bother to take the time to duel the class that hurts you. Its on You,not the spec. Realize this.

    FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining.

    And most people don't understand the counter profession/build system.

    If you are a power oneshot mesmer with 16k hp and you keep going against thieves and losing you cannot go cry on the forum how broken thief is because simply counters your profession and build.

    Same as thief going against sic'em rangers all day. You can't complain.

    Exactly. Tbh this is why I have 6 builds set up on my thief while roaming plus a couple others for groups and pve, if your current build is countered by something then odds are another build will counter it.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • @Veprovina.4876 said:
    If Mesmers did that, it would be fixed (read: destroyed), a long time ago, along with a ton of unnecessary nerfs not even related to the problem. :tongue:
    Anet loves Thieves, they'll never get nerfed. Just deal with it and use the skills available to you to reveal them. Like the mount one for exaple.

    My useless infiltrators arrow that now cost 8 initiative would beg to differ.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2021

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    If the soulbeast is not merged then the +25% damage from Sicem! is lost.

    You can activate Sic 'Em and unmerge, the damage buff will remain on you (and they'll still be revealed). However, despite the tooltip, the soulbeast doesn't actually gain that 40% extra movement from Sic 'Em. Soulbeast/pet buff interactions are weird sometimes.

    ~ Kovu

    edit- I was mistaken, the movement boost is granted but is usually not noticed as with swiftness your in-combat movement speed is capped anyway. A bit misleading.

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.

  • One day they'll be forced to address the issue of stealth, because as it stands, Thief gets consistently punished by silly nerfs just because of stealth uptime. Thief's lucky it can still be played at all because anyone who says the devs "love it" are absolutely delusional -- it has always been a point of contention and Anet is known to do everything in their power to not address the real issues while having a handful of worthless band-aid fixes that will only make the classes unfun to play. If they did do anything to actually fix stealth, they'd open up design space to actually make the class worth playing without stupid cheese, which people only resort to because stuff like D/D is simply unplayable.