PvE : Why core Engi is so bad ?

^title.

Why ?Everything suck in this class.DPs is abysmal.Utility are useless or in a too long CD to be worth it.Turret are a joke.Do I need to talk about the weapon option ? 2 option, both are atrocious...Most skill are bad and the only way to do little dmg is spamming the auto-atk of bomb kit.It's slow, I mean, the feeling, everything feel so sluggish that incredible...I feel so scammed to putting time leveling one.In core tyria it's "ok", but when you start HoT, uuuf, the worst experience I had with a class by far.I can't even solo most HP because the dps is so stupidly low than the time ran out...Never add this problem with any other profession.

Was wondering why engi is so little played, now I know.This class is total trash w/o spe and I bet most people stop leveling it at a point because how frustrating it is to play something that is not even good enough to be called a class.

Yes, that a rant, and yes I'm angry, like I said, I feel scammed.

I think condi is the only way to go when it comes to end game content

Yeah was thinking the same. Probably gonna need to buy a full set of dire or smth like this to help him go through

Is any other core build much better off in PvE? The meta is all PoF or HoT specs (which incidently include both holo and scrapper).

Definitely yes, I've level up all class but thief/rev until now, and never add so much trouble and frustration with a core spec.

Nah I won't give up ! xDI'm sur elite are worth it, but a buff on core would be nice in the futur ^^

Engineer is not for everyone but out of all classes across all specializations, it has the most build diversity. I will let you know that an engineer's kits are as important to it as it's main weapons. Find ways to synergize your trait lines and the tools you use.

One example on MetaBattle: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Leveling_Bomber

A good idea is to look at the different builds on offer on that site and try to understand how they are synergizing traits.My own personal engineer uses pistol/shield and turrets, it shares boons with allies and is pretty tough.

Core engi isn't bad : Holo and Scrapper just provides a way better platform to build off on that Core engi is bad compared to the Especs.

This stems from one thing imo :Core engi doesn't have a third traitline they can slot which empowers them to the point where they are viable when compared to Holo or Scrapper, and even if they do have a third traitline which is soooo good that it can be compared to Holo or Scrapper, nothing is stopping Holo or Scrapper from picking that up instead and dabbing on Core.

This is more easily understood with Explosives Traitline when it got reworked.Previously, Explosives was pretty much a meme pick for Scrapper and Holo, because it doesn't give alot of benefits for running it other than very Explosives focused traits and maybe Evasive Powder Keg, which in itself is a huge meme.

But when Explosives was reworked it introduced several things :

• Durability and Sustain in the form of Blast Shield and Big Boomer.
• Evasive Powder Keg meme was removed and replaced with Explosive Entrance, which basically GUARANTEES the explosion on the target, and refreshes after Dodge.

These are all things Holo already did really well, and now another traitline opened up with more things that makes Holo better? Sign me up.Not to mention Holo innately has a "Kit" built into them, so having an extra kit = more skills to rotate with, which make them better than Core.

Scrapper was always essentially Core Engi +, and anything Core Engi could utilize, Scrapper can utilize it better with superior Durability compared to Core Scrapper, as well as having a better Hammer weapon compared to Rifle, Pistols or Shield.

The only thing Core can do better than Holo but not necessarily Scrapper, is be a Support with Experimental Turrets which can pulse boons.But then again, Scrapper is better at that.

Remember when core engi with bomb kit was the best engi spec to raid with, at the start of HoT?

Anyways, core engi sucks in high end PvE, because all you want there is pure damage output. In that regard, Holosmith >> Tools, Scrapper kind of equal to Tools, but it gives extra utility, and survivability. (Comparing to Tools, because that is our third, semi damage focused line.)If they wanted to bring core engineer to the meta, they would have to nerf Holosmiths condi output, buff kit condi damage, and make Tools minor trait: Excessive Vigor, to affect condi damage. This way core engi becomes the go-to condi spec, holo becomes our power spec, and scrapper becomes the laid back dps, or support.

@Dawdler.8521 said:Is any other core build much better off in PvE? The meta is all PoF or HoT specs (which incidently include both holo and scrapper).Core Guardian is better than DH, when you can keep high Aegis uptime.

I think this is kinda the same with core ele? Unless D/D ‘campfire’ ele is more effective than I thought... Last time I checked, the closest-to-espec build was triple conjure core ele (which IMO sounds like a nightmare to play).

@Dawdler.8521 said:Is any other core build much better off in PvE? The meta is all PoF or HoT specs (which incidently include both holo and scrapper).

I don’t think that there’s any core build which is outright better than their especs, especially in high end PvE.

However, if you set condi scourge as a worthy benchmark (not actually saying that it is), some core builds (usually downgrades of meta builds) do get close:

• core not-bs warrior
• core guardian, doesn’t even need unscathed contender
• core mesmer, because memes are somehow worthy
• core condi engi(?), I’m not sure how this works
• core iboga ranger(?), mixing the deadliest independent pet with the deadliest core build may actually make it somewhat viable

Core classes that don’t seem to be destined for greatness:

• core rev
• core thief
• core necro
• core ele, probs gets close but the effort is definitely not worth
• core engi, probs the same as ele, if we declare that it may only have core things (so no condi build). Core ranger might still be useable despite not using iboga

Edit: big typo :smile:

@Noodle Ant.1605 said:

However, if you set condi scourge as a worthy benchmark (not actually saying that it is), some core builds (usually downgrades of meta builds) do get close:

• core not-bs warrior
• core guardian, doesn’t even need unhindered combatant

Core guardian actually slaps, it's about equal to virtues dh so it's somewhat niche but it is a real build.

Core engi is bad because holosmith is better than tools, in general for a core class to be good its third weakest traitline has to be better than an entire elite spec.

Also core condi engi is pretty good its just that holosmith is slightly better than tools

@Yasai.3549 said:Core engi isn't bad : Holo and Scrapper just provides a way better platform to build off on that Core engi is bad compared to the Especs.

So Core isn't bad its just that everything else is better?

Isn't that the definition of bad?

Core engi is not bad but just incredible hard to play compared to Holo and scrapper. Thats why engi had the lowest playerbase before pof.Condi engi is still quite strong, sometimes even better than condi holo due to higher confusion stacks. Power core engi might be on par with power warrior. not sure about that.As core engi you really need to use the kits though. For power thats the elixir gun acid cancel and lots of blast finishers into your firebomb. Condi is constantly swapping kits. It still works and especially condi does a ton of dmg solo but compared to holo it is easily 3 times the effort for same results.

Core warrior is good, as is core guardian. There are some good core Ranger builds as well. Most others require Elites.

One big problem with core engineer is they have no melee weapon, which means they are dropped back to lower ranged dps weapons.

Ha ha, perma double dodge regen go brrrr

@Jaruselka.5943 said:Isn't that the definition of bad?This is like saying the worst of the three LOTR is bad.

@Opopanax.1803 said:

One big problem with core engineer is they have no melee weapon, which means they are dropped back to lower ranged dps weapons.

They just need something to complement OH Shield.OH Shield is pretty solid, in fact, it's one of the best shields in the game.

MH Pistol is an absolute joke and is the only combo Core Engi has access to.MH Dagger/MH Mace/ MH Axe, anything would be great.

I could not agree more!

Huh? I melt mobs with Core Condi build. No issue at all.Maybe you should post up your build and let us comment instead.

I use this for open world stuff. Probably doesn't have the greatest DPS in like, "actual" content- that being Raids, Fractals, etc., but it's plenty good otherwise.I mob surf with this on HoT/PoF maps, mostly Drizzlewood. I can literally farm that bridge all day if I want to, and half the mobs there are Elites.

Lots of Quickness, CC's, cleave, moderate mobility and defense. I don't do any other PvE but I understand going full Berserker would be better, and that this build is unlikely to be good if you're trying to get optimal DPS numbers, but I don't feel it's bad otherwise. I have a frigging blast with this build and everything combos smoothly. You could swap out certain traits and utilities to be less defensive if you wanted, like going with Grenades + Bomb Kit, maybe even Mortar Kit too, and go full Berserker, but if you want to be soloing stuff and YOLOing huge mobs or Champions like I do, the defenses are helpful.

is core engi worse than core guard? cause OOF if it is.

It is atrociously bad because it isn't allowed to focus in anything, build-wise. There are kits that have kind of good synergy for the power-condi half-n-half build that you're forced to run. Grenades are tedious to use, and rely on crutch traits. Bombs are tedious and boring. Flamethrower is painfully slow. Everything else is trash. You want to use your actual weapon? Your pistol? Perhaps rifle? Forget it. All of the numbers on all of the skills are just wrong. Want to use some fun utilities? They're balanced around the idea that you have four skill bars, so their cooldowns are stupid. All of these long cooldown skills also have meh numbers, because you can't be allowed to have many skills off cooldown at any time that have actually good effects that synergize with your build, that'd just be OP. And your turrets can't scale, because reasons. Except for that one single turret.

It’s bad because most people and devs play classes not named engineer. In MMOs the love is always given to the classes with the most players. Easier to satisfy the majority than the minority. By tying Engineers with so few weapons because of kits we are put into a corner design-wise.

@yLoon.5289 said:Huh? I melt mobs with Core Condi build. No issue at all.Maybe you should post up your build and let us comment instead.

I wouldn’t disagree, however I would add that the problem is other classes can do what we can faster and easier. Thus, more people want the good results with less APM.

I've give up since many day on it. Even both E-spe was not fun enough to keep me in (but way better than core).In the end of all my test, Mesmer & Thief are what appeal me the most core and their spe are amazingly fun to play.

@"yLoon.5289" "melting mob" is doable by anyone w/o effort and any build.Doing HoT HP alone is another thing.If you can solo balty avatar, Coztic, Chack in auric and so on, then go ahead and show me, I'm curious about it tbh.But so far I was struggling hard for the 1st time to made them.I've level up and farm e-spe ALONE, in any other class but rev (not up yet) and it's was sometime hard but doable. But engi ? Uuf..

@The boz.2038 Totally explained what's wrong with engi. Add to that the extreme lack of weapon diversity and it become boring and tedious.