What is happening on fractals? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Fractals/Dungeons/Strike Missions/Raids

What is happening on fractals?

Maybe this may sound as a rant, but it's not. It's just my observation after i spent daily pugging CMs+T4 (since my fractal static). I am not talking about their dps, but when i join on those 250+ old KP, it seems the players have never did the old ones. No mechanics, boon covering its sub optimal, almost zero to none CC even though the BS had m/m equipped but pfftt let's camp axes... I am a veteran fractal player, and i pugged a lot till i had my static, but HOLY MOLY, as far as I remember, the pugs weren't THAT bad. These points of mine are after i spent pugging 3 weeks every day doing CMs+T4. I dunno if it's just me, or i had some really really bad luck, but to be honest I have found more exp players on normal T4 rather than CMs+T4 groups.

🔥 Dûmaat 🔥
💥 We dreamed up false gods, great demons 💥
🔥 Fractal God 🔥

Comments

  • Mouse.7382Mouse.7382 Member ✭✭✭

    I run PUG CM everyday on NA. Some days I can complete them, others I cannot. Has been that way for me since always (I have a dedicated guild for fractals, but my times are all over the board, so I dont do static guild groups at all).

    I will agree with you (when I dont form the group), the groups that require the most 'kill proof' always seem to be the hardest to complete.

    When I forma group, I always ask the same. 'CM's + T4's. Need HB/ALC/BS/DPS. I play the last dps spot (thief), but switch to dps mirage for CM 100. I find the PUG ppl that join my groups, know their stuff well enough to complete with minimal issues.

  • SidewayS.3789SidewayS.3789 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2020

    @Mouse.7382 said:
    I run PUG CM everyday on NA. Some days I can complete them, others I cannot. Has been that way for me since always (I have a dedicated guild for fractals, but my times are all over the board, so I dont do static guild groups at all).

    I will agree with you (when I dont form the group), the groups that require the most 'kill proof' always seem to be the hardest to complete.

    When I forma group, I always ask the same. 'CM's + T4's. Need HB/ALC/BS/DPS. I play the last dps spot (thief), but switch to dps mirage for CM 100. I find the PUG ppl that join my groups, know their stuff well enough to complete with minimal issues.

    Yes, it seems everyone likes to be carried no matter the role that they are playing.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    As more and more veteran players leave the game due to lack of challenging content, the amount of experienced players drops.

    To be fair though, running with a static can make regular CM groups seem amateurish. You have to remember that the spectrum on ability even with still success is still high.

    On EU and only running occasional CMs with PUG groups, mostly due to guild members being available or me just not running daily CMs any more, I can safely say:

    • the range in ability on heal firebrands is huge. Some will aegis, stab, condi cleanse and do their share of might uptime with tome+staff blasts, proper rotation of weapon sets, etc. Basically carrying the group through anything which can go wrong. Others you just realize they are not utilizing the class even to50% of it's potential (and I have had situation where I just asked the HFB to go dps and would take over)
    • the range on dps players too is huge. Not only performance wise, but in ability to react to other players mistakes or even in just avoiding damage IF needed. There is a huge difference in being able to play down the content versus actively noticing other players skills used, positioning, and intervening when something goes wrong. The amount of players who won't move 1mm in order to step into a green on arc is astonishing
    • the vast majority of players has completely lost the ability to run this content without a healer any more. HFB or any type of healer is by now the baseline, where as before this was mostly a CM thing. Again in all fairness: some of the recent fractals and instabilities are also to blame for this behavior and change in setup

    This is just the result of an aging player base which sees more and more segregation. Skilled players form statics, run with guildies or simply stop running the content due to burnout (or just run their dailies and are done with it). Meanwhile newer players with less experience move up but lack the experience of veteran players to teach them.

    Interesting enough, an old raid lead of mine returned to the game after a 2.5 year break. He enjoys fractals and raids and gets back into that content. Suffice to say, I was rather impressed when he used a very old school elementalist skip in uncategorized to skip old tom (yes, I am aware of all the regular skips used but this one I had not seen for over 3 years and tbh, had completely forgotten about myself since I never ran elementalist in the past). That's knowledge lost to newer players and if it wasn't for sites like discretize or other fractal guilds/guides, would probably be lost entirely as time marches on.

    That's exactly the thingy, i have spent the last 2+ years with a static, whom we runned daily CMs+T4 like a piece of cake, but now that i am forced to go on pugs, i see a big big gap between players,. Usually i play HFB/QFB or Alac (at least to cover one support group) but when sometimes i wanna play dps, i see all sorts of players with big KP, just failing some basics elements, like low Alac, low might uptime,quickness and all the boons. A few days ago i asked if the HFB can run signet (traited) since we kinda had 2 good dps players, i was called kitten and toxic... I dunno,maybe it's my experience but i will take your point, some part of the vets (like my static) left the game and now we can see those who just press some buttons and likes to be carried and those who have knowledge of their classes. Overall i say it's pretty sad, that the "5 players end content" it's going this way.

    🔥 Dûmaat 🔥
    💥 We dreamed up false gods, great demons 💥
    🔥 Fractal God 🔥

  • Krzysztof.5973Krzysztof.5973 Member ✭✭✭

    @SidewayS.3789 said:
    Overall i say it's pretty sad, that the "5 players end content" it's going this way.

    That's what happens when we barely get any worthwhile group content. Playerbase instead of getting better gets worse. If you return after a break and hope to find a good static it's a race. Either you are lucky enough to find 3-4 capable people or you burn out and (insert kitten here) off from playing the content, game altogether.

  • The Fear.3865The Fear.3865 Member ✭✭✭

    This is all about fake kp. More kp you will ask <1 stack, more fake kp peeps you will get.

    It's so easy to fake one stack of kp with a simple macro "enter up enter", fake kper tends to join high req groups to get carried, so if you ask a single stack of old kps not avalaible, of course you'll get these guys on your team.

    Ask for 100 kp, or use kp.me, you'll get better groups.

  • Black Storm.6974Black Storm.6974 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2020

    Since the old Kill Proofs can no longer be obtained, the practice of faking Kill Proofs probably got far more popular, to the point where most people who joined those groups are faking theirs.

    In my experience (on EU server), people with high KP were mostly experienced CMs players, when the old KP were still obtainable.

  • Rodrick.1942Rodrick.1942 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2020

    Another problem is no one think cc is their job these days. because everyone want to see the big big dps on Arcdps panel.

    I also have some bad experience with pug that an alacren camp on sword most of time..only use staff for cc once or twice.

  • @Rodrick.1942 said:
    Another problem is no one think cc is their job these days. because everyone want to see the big big dps on Arcdps panel.

    I also have some bad experience with pug that an alacren camp on sword most of time..only use staff for cc once or twice.

    Which is why arcdps is kind of bad in this term. That thing shouldn't exist in the first place.

  • @Rodrick.1942 said:
    Another problem is no one think cc is their job these days. because everyone want to see the big big dps on Arcdps panel.

    I also have some bad experience with pug that an alacren camp on sword most of time..only use staff for cc once or twice.

    I assume you're talking about the CM breakbars, because realistically those are the ones that actually need to be taken seriously; non-cm breakbars kinda passively get broken in normal T4s.

    CMs have a PUG "meta" of who is doing what, who is expected to bring what, and part of learning CMs is learning what those metas are. An Alacren is not going to realize that they are responsible for almost all breakbars if they're doing it with a static where other people are being responsible with CC, or that they are responsible for killing Anomaly on 99CM Ark (which is stupid when a holosmith can just hit the anomaly with two autoattacks while the alacren needs to do a full rotation, which pulls them off the stack for a longer amount of time and makes them less able to distribute alacrity).

    Also, Alacren is supposed to camp sword most of the time, they should be pulling out staff for cc breaks, and if they're waiting for weapon swap while already in staff, they can use the block. Alacren burst rotation doesn't include staff at all.

  • Sniper.5961Sniper.5961 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rodrick.1942 said:
    Another problem is no one think cc is their job these days. because everyone want to see the big big dps on Arcdps panel.

    I also have some bad experience with pug that an alacren camp on sword most of time..only use staff for cc once or twice.

    @DKRathalos.9625 said:

    @Rodrick.1942 said:
    Another problem is no one think cc is their job these days. because everyone want to see the big big dps on Arcdps panel.

    I also have some bad experience with pug that an alacren camp on sword most of time..only use staff for cc once or twice.

    Which is why arcdps is kind of bad in this term. That thing shouldn't exist in the first place.

    Arc dps has now an option to display breakbar damage so its really helpfull in that regard. And why shouldnt it exist in the first place? An acurate feedback of the performance of players especially in the form of logs is the best thing that has happened to the pve community.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭

    1)at first, 250kp old this beginner-midl level. Why you wait some magic from them ?
    2) more better ark kp from kp.me, ant don't bring any less than 8k uce ..
    3)use only proper classes: cfb as dps for 100. Bs also swap on cfb on 100. On other ofc some can swap to slb, but if all stay cfb as dps is ok.
    4)don't make cm already inside cm. Take hfb, and better look good dps from cfb ..

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Klowde.9876 said:
    CMs have a PUG "meta" of who is doing what, who is expected to bring what, and part of learning CMs is learning what those metas are. An Alacren is not going to realize that they are responsible for almost all breakbars if they're doing it with a static where other people are being responsible with CC, or that they are responsible for killing Anomaly on 99CM Ark (which is stupid when a holosmith can just hit the anomaly with two autoattacks while the alacren needs to do a full rotation, which pulls them off the stack for a longer amount of time and makes them less able to distribute alacrity).

    Also, Alacren is supposed to camp sword most of the time, they should be pulling out staff for cc breaks, and if they're waiting for weapon swap while already in staff, they can use the block. Alacren burst rotation doesn't include staff at all.

    The 2 aa of that holo could be used on the boss to phase it faster. usually holo even has laser disk going when anom spawns so going out of melee range would be really bad. Ren needs one icerazor or sword 4 + 2 to kill anom. doesnt take long at all. in a static you burst through the phases so fast that usually everyone helps the ren after boss is phased but cant expect pugs to burst.
    Alaren burst opener does include staff on a lot of bosses. would be impossible to break most bars without it unless you kitten every elses dps.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If you’re a fractal fan, you might be understandably worried about the future of your favorite mode. ArenaNet was quick to assure us that the purpose of dragon response missions was not to replace fractals or strikes, but as something new and different, and that they have no plans to discontinue work on those any time soon.

    https://massivelyop.com/2020/11/17/flameseeker-chronicles-first-impressions-of-guild-wars-2s-icebrood-saga-truce/

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭

    More people are faking their KPs. Even despit the fact that killproofme now has become more regular thing i still join a lot of pugs that clearly don't meet their own requirements. Had a group yesterday unable to do enough cc, dying all over the place and so on. When I called them out one of them started to blame me lol

  • dace.8019dace.8019 Member ✭✭✭

    The problem is the useless "250 KP" in the LFG ads.

    The answer is simple. MOAR STIPULASHUNZ.

    Advertise as "250 KP / 30,000 AP / 8 year title & GWAMM title (show both) / Pithy guild name /" feel free to pile on the exclusions until you, yourself may not participate.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dace.8019 said:
    The problem is the useless "250 KP" in the LFG ads.

    The answer is simple. MOAR STIPULASHUNZ.

    Advertise as "250 KP / 30,000 AP / 8 year title & GWAMM title (show both) / Pithy guild name /" feel free to pile on the exclusions until you, yourself may not participate.

    useless for you, because it excludes you most likely

    when i do my daily clear i want it fast, i want it smooth
    i have no desire to carry burderns who can't even use special action key correctly at arkk and stack solar blooms directly under him nearly oneshotting our weaver

    it becomes obvious quite fast who is experienced, and who is a fraud

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2020

    Why would I do a Fractal with four PUGs and fail when I can do it with a single guildmate and win? Sure, it takes alot longer to do it with 2-3 trusted players, but when you factor in the time lost to repeatedly wiping its not as different as it seems.

    All the good players aren't in LFG, they're in private parties/guilds.

    Part of this is the dev's fault. They made the skill gap too large in this game, just taking a different build can increase your damage 2-3x without even changing gear or rotation, to say nothing of healing, and general CC and support. We kept warning them this was happening, "power creep is out of control", but they just keep adding content that needs more and more raw power instead.

    Even the elites, who are insistant on having hard content, stop enjoying it after they have to repeat it a few times. You can only become so good at the game before realising how much time you're wasting just trying to get some rewards.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 22 charas, 17k hours, 28k AP | ♀♥♀
    Mains Mariyuuna/Auramancer(PvE) & Terakura/Healbreaker(WvW) aka Sea of Sorrows Silver Assaulter [SUKI]
    No need to be best, only good and kind.

  • dace.8019dace.8019 Member ✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said

    useless for you, because it excludes you most likely

    You couldn't be more wrong in that. I've run them to death.

    They're useless because of the amount of dead weight that we need to carry that can meet these requirements. How many guilds carry people through Raids and help them fulfil their legendary farms? A whole bunch. And those people, even if they've done this content lots, still don't understand basic GW2 gameplay let alone high-level fractals/CMs.

    So because they're so poor at weeding out the weak players, and so many good players haven't got these requirements, we started advertising more openly, only requesting experienced. Guess what? It's basicaly the same. Except we fill the party in 1 minute instead of 15+.