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Impossible for new players! RAIDS!

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  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:
    That's literally what he/she says:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Sure, some players actually enjoy that

    Furthermore, it must be me but to my knowledge the concept of 'chill' IS NOT the same as enjoyment. I mean, I don't even see that much correlation, really. Chill means (imo): take it easy, take it slow (much like the condition :) ). Whereas enjoying something is incredibly subjective, right???

    Yeah i can get behind this.
    You can take the learning in chill way, practise the boss step by step, having discussions between tries about the strats that might or might not work, adjust the composition if somethings is lacking like healing or boons and what not. Training something doesn't have to be awful.

    I didn't say "awful", did I. I did even mention that it can be an anjoyable experience to some players. I just don't believe any attempt to "take it easy" during learning is going to provide any meaningful results. You will need to put a lot of effort and attention into training if you're expecting to learn anything from it. Chill approach is possible only after you've learned enough, but during training it simply won't cut it.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Sure, some players actually enjoy that

    Furthermore, it must be me but to my knowledge the concept of 'chill' IS NOT the same as enjoyment. I mean, I don't even see that much correlation, really. Chill means (imo): take it easy, take it slow (much like the condition :) ). Whereas enjoying something is incredibly subjective, right???

    True. And there's actually mainly that one person that took that "chill squad" phrase and started debating that it's no longer a "chill" squad when someone has to actually create it, "because that someone might not enjoy the process of creating the squad".

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:
    That's literally what he/she says:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Sure, some players actually enjoy that

    Furthermore, it must be me but to my knowledge the concept of 'chill' IS NOT the same as enjoyment. I mean, I don't even see that much correlation, really. Chill means (imo): take it easy, take it slow (much like the condition :) ). Whereas enjoying something is incredibly subjective, right???

    Yeah i can get behind this.
    You can take the learning in chill way, practise the boss step by step, having discussions between tries about the strats that might or might not work, adjust the composition if somethings is lacking like healing or boons and what not. Training something doesn't have to be awful.

    I didn't say "awful", did I. I did even mention that it can be an anjoyable experience to some players. I just don't believe any attempt to "take it easy" during learning is going to provide any meaningful results. You will need to put a lot of effort and attention into training if you're expecting to learn anything from it. Chill approach is possible only after you've learned enough, but during training it simply won't cut it.

    If watching a video, checking what your class does, reading a guide and gathering a composition that somewhat makes sense and expect same from other 9 players is lot of effort, then yes i agree with you.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭✭

    What I can see here is that some people want to leech and don't want others do the same. Quite hypocrite if you ask me.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2021

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:
    If watching a video, checking what your class does, reading a guide and gathering a composition that somewhat makes sense and expect same from other 9 players is lot of effort, then yes i agree with you.

    If that was all that was enough to learn a boss encounter (and rading in general), we'd see a lot more people raiding than we've had. No. Preparation is an important part of the future success, that's sure, but is nowhere close to being enough. There's a huge leap from having a theoretical knowledge and being able to put it into practice. In fact, that's the threshold that stops most would-be raiders. Not the initial preparation. And i don't believe it's a threshold that can be passed with a "take it easy" approach. Not for most players anyway.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2021

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:
    If watching a video, checking what your class does, reading a guide and gathering a composition that somewhat makes sense and expect same from other 9 players is lot of effort, then yes i agree with you.

    If that was all that was enough to learn a boss encounter (and rading in general), we'd see a lot more people raiding than we've had. No. Preparation is an important part of the future success, that's sure, but is nowhere close to being enough. There's a huge leap from having a theoretical knowledge and being able to put it into practice. In fact, that's the threshold that stops most would-be raiders. Not the initial preparation. And i don't believe it's a threshold that can be passed with a "take it easy" approach. Not for most players anyway.

    Nobody said you're becoming a raiding god after reading how the encounter works. Practicing is definitely needed and that's also the main (whole?) point of "training" and "chill" groups. Not only that, but that's also the correct way to go about learning/teaching it. If you go into raiding and expect to instantly succeed (or "compelete content on autopilot", which apparently is your idea of a chill squad for some reason) or learn without failing, then good luck with that. The advice to get into raiding can be given to people that actually want to learn the raiding, but aren't sure how. It's absolutely not for people that just want to leech because "failure = I ragequit" or "reading to understand the mechanics = too much effort".

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    Nobody said you're becoming a raiding god after reading how the encounter works. Practicing is definitely needed and that's also the main (whole?) point of "training" and "chill" groups.

    Thaining groups, sure. Chill groups, not at all. The main point of chill groups is "chill" - this has nothing to do whatsoever with training or practicing.

    Not only that, but that's also the correct way to go about learning/teaching it. If you go into raiding and expect to instantly succeed (or "compelete content on autopilot", which apparently is your idea of a chill squad for some reason) or learn without failing, then good luck with that.

    I don't expect to go into raiding and instantly succeed. But then, i don't expect to have a chill training run either. Chill runs is something i can potentially expect from a group of veterans, not from a group of players new to the content.

    The advice to get into raiding can be given to people that actually want to learn the raiding, but aren't sure how. It's absolutely not for people that just want to leech because "failure = I ragequit" or "reading to understand the mechanics = too much effort".

    The advice to get into raiding is not to "make a chill training group yourself". It would be to go into training without expecting a chill run. Because a chill training run is something a fresh would-be raider is extremely unlikely to get. Advising them that it is possible is misleading them and making them have unreasonable expectations - expectations that are unlikely to be met.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • The Fear.3865The Fear.3865 Member ✭✭✭

    @Agrippa Oculus.3726 said:

    @The Fear.3865 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    "Chill learning run" done by a group of 10 new players is usually an equivalent of saying "we're completely chill with fact that we won't learn anything today". If you actually want to learn anything in such a group setup,it will be stressful, there's no avoiding that. Learning raid encounters when you're all new to the content is an extremely painful process. Sure, some players actually enjoy that, but that doesn't make it any less of a hard and highly demanding work.

    I am also speaking from the point of the person that often did the organizing of such groups. And, trust me, it never was chill for me.

    Oboi... Trust me you can learn something and enjoy it... So sad to read something like that.

    That's literally what he/she says:

    I don't enjoy learning in a "extremely painful way". You can simply learn something and have fun Mr literally boi.

  • It sounds to me like they're achieving exactly what they're designed to do- prolong content.

    As a fellow new player I'm relieved that parts of the game have such high barriers of entry and long progression requirements.. because the second I feel like I've mastered everything in the game and I don't have any more really worthwhile targets for improvement to set myself (I mean there's getting better at PVP but I'll probably plateau at some point), that will be the second that the game starts to feel stale to me.

    I'm sorry that it doesn't meet with your "want everything.. now!" personality (even though I already feel like the game gives a load away fairly easily, if I had it my way end-game progression would take even longer including with regards to gear, etc.), but I like value for money when I purchase things and having a game that has me driven for years to new goals is value, because it means I won't drop the game within a year to go buy another game.

  • @dani.5680 said:
    Impossible for new players to get in a new raid! All require 150+ LI and all training require ascended so you are in a farming space of over 3 months for ascended gear just to get in the training! Then 1 year to get those 150 LI! What the hell is going on?
    Most of training guilds take you on weekends if they are free, if not, not!
    So as a new player you have to farm 1year to be in a LFG? Thats stupid isn't it?

    Everything you wrote is wrong.
    Most raiding discords require exotic gear (with correct stats) which you can literally buy on TP if you choose for example power dps build.
    Most training discords raid in the evenings during the week + on 1 weekend day.
    Most training discords lead multiple trainings per week/day (in the peek of corona lockdowns my training discord had 13 training squads on 1 day due to the amount of people who wanted to participate). There are also multiple kill runs per day (not trainings) in which you can also participate once you get to learn the boss during training.
    It doesn't take a year to get 150 LI.
    So as a new player all you have to do is join one of those discords https://snowcrows.com/raids/training/ and what is stupid is that people write this kind of posts on reddit and this forum instead searching for some information first. Google is your friend. Search function on reddit/forum is also your friend, use it.

  • TrOtskY.5927TrOtskY.5927 Member ✭✭✭

    @Armen.1483 said:
    What I can see here is that some people want to leech and don't want others do the same. Quite hypocrite if you ask me.

    100 percent what I am seeing, as a raid leader myself this attitude pisses me off beyond measure.