My Renegade expirience so far

It took me some time to get to Renegade ..... as I have played Power Herald bigger part of HoT and enjoyed it but for PoF I wanted to try something different:1) tried condi Scourge - liked the playstyle - I generally enjoy well/field placing gamestyle... got nerfed so hard it is unplayable for me2) power Spellbereaker - not really PvE usable spec so it was short try for me3) condi Mirage - is surprisingly fun even with the broken mechanics it has... but it seems like too much effort for very mediocre output so off I go.4) ate the bullet and spend money to convert my heavy set to viper and now trying Renegade...

And it is quite OK. Not great but it works and does not require me to do 30 step rotation to be effective. Two main issues I see is energy cost on some skills (at least F skils should be energy free to make them worth it) and Shortbow requires tons of polishing. But playing mace/axe is really not bad - dps is good, using AoE is fun and overall Renegade does not seems to me to be in bad spot now. What I hate most is loss of perma swiftness on Herald... but mounts and quite a good incombat mobility of mace/axe+mallyx compensates for it well.

Kalla is very good for PVE. Provides decent damage and some nice AOE that base Revenant was missing. PvP is another story...

That being said, I find the traits for Renegade quite useful for power based Renegade in PvP/WvW! Overall, it's a decent spec and has pushed Renegade into a better spot in raids. It could still be a bit more fluid though with some slight energy reductions here and there. Also the shortbow does need a lot of love, still. I do however find it interesting that Renengade runes suggest a hybrid playstyle. I'm gonna be looking into running a Griever or Celestial Renegade.

The energy costs coupled with cooldown have always been the issue. They need one or the other. If they remove the cooldowns from short bow and make it entirely energy and make the F1 cooldown entirely it will feel much smoother.

Condi Renegade works well enough, but Shortbow really needs some more TLC as it's rarely competitive with M/A. The real problem I have is the lack of skills and customization. That's never going to stop being a problem until they add a ton of new skills and/or rework the legend mechanics a bit.

@Einlanzer.1627 said:Condi Renegade works well enough, but Shortbow really needs some more TLC as it's rarely competitive with M/A. The real problem I have is the lack of skills and customization. That's never going to stop being a problem until they add a ton of new skills and/or rework the legend mechanics a bit.

The gap will only widen with each expansion if this problem persists.

I am more and more players notice this issue, however. This thread with poll clearly indicates that https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/11795/if-you-could-redesign-any-one-class-what-would-it-be-and-how/p1

@Ryouzanpaku.1273 said:It took me some time to get to Renegade ..... as I have played Power Herald bigger part of HoT and enjoyed it but for PoF I wanted to try something different:1) tried condi Scourge - liked the playstyle - I generally enjoy well/field placing gamestyle... got nerfed so hard it is unplayable for me2) power Spellbereaker - not really PvE usable spec so it was short try for me3) condi Mirage - is surprisingly fun even with the broken mechanics it has... but it seems like too much effort for very mediocre output so off I go.4) ate the bullet and spend money to convert my heavy set to viper and now trying Renegade...

And it is quite OK. Not great but it works and does not require me to do 30 step rotation to be effective. Two main issues I see is energy cost on some skills (at least F skils should be energy free to make them worth it) and Shortbow requires tons of polishing. But playing mace/axe is really not bad - dps is good, using AoE is fun and overall Renegade does not seems to me to be in bad spot now. What I hate most is loss of perma swiftness on Herald... but mounts and quite a good incombat mobility of mace/axe+mallyx compensates for it well.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the new renegade rotation has more steps than old power herald. When i played power herald, all you did was spam 2 on the sword and use vengeful hammers + keep herald upkeep above 50% to get the legend swap damage on equilibrium.

@narcx.3570 said:Mallyx = Embrace the Darkness + 3 Searing Fissures + 1 Echoing Eruption (Unyielding Anguish if doing mechanics caused me to have excess energy from a delayed swap.)Kalla = Razorclaw + Citadel Bombardment + 3 Searing Fissures + Echoing Eruption + Temporal Rift (Icerazor or 2nd Echoing if mechanics.)

This is pretty much what I stick too... In theory you can drop a 2nd Razorclaw instead of Icerazor if your Kalla swap got delayed by 5 seconds... Which might happen on like Slothasar waiting for a slow break in a pug or if you had to take a longer way to your cleansing well on matt cuz of bad corruption drops or whatever, but then it won't be ready again until mid way through your next Kalla rotation and everything gets a little messy, so I usually just drop Icerazor and/or an extra Echoing Eruption.

I like condi renegade for the damage output, but it's one of the squishiest pve specs I've ever played, mostly due to a massive lack of flexibility in weapons/utilities. Even my full glass power soulbeast had an easier time with most of the expansion content, despite not killing things quite as fast (vets and above).

I'm just starting to try renegade - minus the shortbow. I play in open world and it's okay so far. Still getting the hang of it. It feels a lot like scourge... just with charr instead of sand shades.

Slightly OT - I don't understand is why people keep saying that spellbreaker is not good for PvE. Granted, PvE seems to have been co-opted to mean 'raids' so if you're talking PvE in that sense, you may be right. I don't know. But spellbreaker is just fine in Open World. I enjoy it and it's the first of my toons to complete all the new maps, because I was that engrossed in it. That's my 2c. Now back to your regular programming.

@Zoltar MacRoth.7146 said:I'm just starting to try renegade - minus the shortbow. I play in open world and it's okay so far. Still getting the hang of it. It feels a lot like scourge... just with charr instead of sand shades.

Slightly OT - I don't understand is why people keep saying that spellbreaker is not good for PvE. Granted, PvE seems to have been co-opted to mean 'raids' so if you're talking PvE in that sense, you may be right. I don't know. But spellbreaker is just fine in Open World. I enjoy it and it's the first of my toons to complete all the new maps, because I was that engrossed in it. That's my 2c. Now back to your regular programming.

Spellbreaker is good in open world pve because core warrior is good in open world pve. High mobility, high survivability, average damage. Condi renegade seems to be: low mobility, low survivability, high damage.

@Quarktastic.1027 said:

@Zoltar MacRoth.7146 said:I'm just starting to try renegade - minus the shortbow. I play in open world and it's okay so far. Still getting the hang of it. It feels a lot like scourge... just with charr instead of sand shades.

Slightly OT - I don't understand is why people keep saying that spellbreaker is not good for PvE. Granted, PvE seems to have been co-opted to mean 'raids' so if you're talking PvE in that sense, you may be right. I don't know. But spellbreaker is just fine in Open World. I enjoy it and it's the first of my toons to complete all the new maps, because I was that engrossed in it. That's my 2c. Now back to your regular programming.

Sure, I can agree with that, but it doesn't explain why people bag SB for being 'poor in open world'. Anyway, that's outside the scope of this thread.

@Quarktastic.1027 said:

@narcx.3570 said:Mallyx = Embrace the Darkness + 3 Searing Fissures + 1 Echoing Eruption (Unyielding Anguish if doing mechanics caused me to have excess energy from a delayed swap.)Kalla = Razorclaw + Citadel Bombardment + 3 Searing Fissures + Echoing Eruption + Temporal Rift (Icerazor or 2nd Echoing if mechanics.)

This is pretty much what I stick too... In theory you can drop a 2nd Razorclaw instead of Icerazor if your Kalla swap got delayed by 5 seconds... Which might happen on like Slothasar waiting for a slow break in a pug or if you had to take a longer way to your cleansing well on matt cuz of bad corruption drops or whatever, but then it won't be ready again until mid way through your next Kalla rotation and everything gets a little messy, so I usually just drop Icerazor and/or an extra Echoing Eruption.

I have little trouble surviving on Renegade in open world PvE even in full Vipers/Nightmare/Trapper raid gear... You just need to make a few key adjustments in your build/skill usage.

The most important being that you take Invocation (2-x-1) instead of Devastation... Devastation (especially the traits listed in most posted builds) is all about max dps in a raid scenario or 5 man meta comp, whereas Invocation is perfect for solo play. With Invocation you gain access to Fury (and a fury boost which makes up for not having the group buffs that raid builds are built around), a flat 7% solo damage increase, access to a CLEANSE (which can save your life so, so many times), and most importantly a 2nd, no-energy cost, stun break. 99.9% of all open world PvE deaths occur due to loss of control of your character... Especially in PoF. Being able to break out of stuns/fears/taunts is probably the most important thing you can do to stay alive in the Open World, and let's face it, the stunbreaks in Mallyx and Kalla are super expensive to use, so you often won't be able to cast them when you need to--Invocation solves this.

While I do almost every fight exclusively in Mace/Axe mode, as much as it pains me to say, you should bring a short bow for open world to swap to... It's not as bad as everyone says... It lets you have a ranged option until you're comfortable enough with Rev to survive full time in melee mode, and it's super useful for the Bounty Instability "Phase Shifted." Plus when you're bored it can be really satisfying trying to hit moving targets with 7shot. :bleep_bloop:

The last really important adjustment to make is to ALWAYS use Unyielding Anguish against fights with multiple mobs. While it's damage output isn't as great as just pulsing Embrace the Darkness, it's waaaaaay worth the energy for it's AoE chill. Chilling open world enemies effectively decreases the amount of damage they put out by 40%, which is HUGE for your survivability. Also don't use Razorclaw by yourself, it's damage is awful outside of a group, you're better off just using your Daze spirit or saving the energy to drop Breakrazor and heal during your time in Kalla.

Hope some of that helps... Renegade is actually the class that I feel the most invincible playing in open world... A lot has to do with how much AoE damage it can pump out, but it does have plenty of tools for survivability--you just need to utilize them.

@haventr.1630 said:

@Ryouzanpaku.1273 said:It took me some time to get to Renegade ..... as I have played Power Herald bigger part of HoT and enjoyed it but for PoF I wanted to try something different:1) tried condi Scourge - liked the playstyle - I generally enjoy well/field placing gamestyle... got nerfed so hard it is unplayable for me2) power Spellbereaker - not really PvE usable spec so it was short try for me3) condi Mirage - is surprisingly fun even with the broken mechanics it has... but it seems like too much effort for very mediocre output so off I go.4) ate the bullet and spend money to convert my heavy set to viper and now trying Renegade...

And it is quite OK. Not great but it works and does not require me to do 30 step rotation to be effective. Two main issues I see is energy cost on some skills (at least F skils should be energy free to make them worth it) and Shortbow requires tons of polishing. But playing mace/axe is really not bad - dps is good, using AoE is fun and overall Renegade does not seems to me to be in bad spot now. What I hate most is loss of perma swiftness on Herald... but mounts and quite a good incombat mobility of mace/axe+mallyx compensates for it well.

And so the reason I quit raiding with my Rev, it got soooo boring. Now it has some skill involved (albeit small) and I have options, so win/win for me.

My main experience is that I really enjoy the Shortbow and I hope it gets buffed up to main weapon status. I'm just tired of Mace/Axe mostly.

@narcx.3570 said:

@Quarktastic.1027 said:

@narcx.3570 said:Mallyx = Embrace the Darkness + 3 Searing Fissures + 1 Echoing Eruption (Unyielding Anguish if doing mechanics caused me to have excess energy from a delayed swap.)Kalla = Razorclaw + Citadel Bombardment + 3 Searing Fissures + Echoing Eruption + Temporal Rift (Icerazor or 2nd Echoing if mechanics.)

This is pretty much what I stick too... In theory you can drop a 2nd Razorclaw instead of Icerazor if your Kalla swap got delayed by 5 seconds... Which might happen on like Slothasar waiting for a slow break in a pug or if you had to take a longer way to your cleansing well on matt cuz of bad corruption drops or whatever, but then it won't be ready again until mid way through your next Kalla rotation and everything gets a little messy, so I usually just drop Icerazor and/or an extra Echoing Eruption.

I happen to agree, out of all the class types in this game, Renegade is the one I feel the best with overall. I run nearly full vipers (it's a WiP, it's not cheap to make ascended stuff and I don't buy gold with gems.. ) I'd like to see some offered builds from you, showing the difference between pve and pve raiding builds. Many I know just hop on QT website and then wonder why they just.. explode in open world >>;

@narcx.3570 said:The last really important adjustment to make is to ALWAYS use Unyielding Anguish against fights with multiple mobs. While it's damage output isn't as great as just pulsing Embrace the Darkness, it's waaaaaay worth the energy for it's AoE chill.

Going 2-2-2 on corruption:Demonic Defiance (resistance when using Mallyx skills) + Abyssal chill (chill on torment) + Maniacal persistence (torment when you gain resistance)makes unyielding anguish insane, It's pretty satisfying to watch things just melt after it.

i am 50 HP away to full the spec, do you actually use Shortbow?

Renegade in open world has no surivanility issues at all. narcx.3570 has a good summary.

UA + mace 2 & 3 kills all none vet mobs in a group. You can literally can kill a group of 5 none vet mobs with 3 skills 1.5 sec cast.

Do not waste your time with SB. Mace 2 & 3 hit more reliably and deal more damage than the entire SB skills.

@NaiveBayes.2587 said:

@narcx.3570 said:The last really important adjustment to make is to ALWAYS use Unyielding Anguish against fights with multiple mobs. While it's damage output isn't as great as just pulsing Embrace the Darkness, it's waaaaaay worth the energy for it's AoE chill.

I used that trait combo for a season and a half in sPvP because trait synergy like that is hard to pass up... But in the end, I swapped Maniacal for Diabolic Inferno. I found it much better to have more control over my bursts and not have to worry about wasting my MP proc and torment bombing myself when all I'm trying to do is swap mallyx to pop a heal under pressure or Banish Enchantment spam some bunker from range.