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Future hostile entity?

Like Kormir, a human could ascend into godhood; like Aurene, a new elder dragon could born. Would we be able to witness more events like this?
Maybe someone would try to be the god of war? Maybe there's more elder dragons out there? Tyria is big, you know.

"Although the world of Tyria is quite large, for unknown reasons the Elder Dragons are only ever observed to be active in one small corner of it." - wiki

There's six (if Aurene is excluded) in that small corner of the world, maybe there's in fact, hundreds of them around the world...!? jk :p

Comments

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    We’re in a weird place where the plot would make perfect sense for there to be another dozen dragons out there, but it won’t happen due to real life reasons - people want to move on from that. Best we may get is a 7th/ultimate with this ‘mother’ kralkatorrik mentioned

    I'd rather keep going.. wherever the wind takes us

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 8, 2020

    If you think about it, it makes sense the Elder Dragons would be centered around Tyria.

    Lets say they were originally spread out across the world evenly. As they consumed magic to feed themselves, and spread their domains, there would invariably be one spot left between them all, and they would all converge on that area to consume the last of the magic.

    Now consider that the Seers stored the last of the world's magic into the Bloodstones, to prevent the dragons from getting it(said Bloodstone being in this region of the world), and it makes even more sense that all the Elder Dragons would be in this region.

    Also, the Elder Dragon's aren't exactly in a small area by any means. It may seem that way due to the game being massively scaled down, by on a global level they are spread out over a fairly large area.

    I doubt theres some other Elder Dragon tier threat on the world that's keeping them in this area. They are just here because this is where they went to sleep last time, for logical reasons.

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2020

    We also know there are six elder dragons because they were the six pillars that held up The All. There are likely many other 'high dragons' in the world - dragons like Glint, Vlast, and pre-ascension Aurene (and likely Kuunavang and the other Saltspray dragons), but as far as the lore has established there are only six elder dragons that presumably ascended to that status at some point in the past, unless they were born into it somehow. If 'mother' ever comes into play I believe she'll serve as an origin story for the elder dragons, but not actually appear in the story (or at least she won't serve as an antagonist). She might not have been that powerful if Kralkatorrik ascended to the position of elder dragon, since she would most likely have been a high dragon.

    And there's at least one more elder dragon we haven't seen yet, which is the deep sea dragon. For all we know the devs could decide they're 'mother' and explain the origins of the elder dragons through EoDs, but I'm not sure how I'd feel about that one.

    If we resolve the elder dragon threat at some point in the future, the next obvious step would be dealing with the human gods. We do know that Balthazar was 'stripped' of his divinity/magic/power by the other gods, and from established lore we know that power has to go into a new vessel immediately. The god that replaced Balthazar should already exist if the devs stick to those rules; they might not necessarily be a god/dess of war though. Sometimes the domains shift or invert as we've seen with Abbadon and Kormir. If we fight another god, and I don't have any desire to see that plot repeated, I imagine they would hail from the mists (maybe Xotecha). They could always bring back Desmina or Menzies as god-adjacent antagonists, but I doubt it.

    Other than that, there's plenty of factions and unresolved plotlines surrounding the five races and beyond. I wouldn't mind scaling the threat level back after elder dragons are done.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raffrey.5271 said:
    Like Kormir, a human could ascend into godhood; like Aurene, a new elder dragon could born. Would we be able to witness more events like this?
    Maybe someone would try to be the god of war? Maybe there's more elder dragons out there? Tyria is big, you know.

    "Although the world of Tyria is quite large, for unknown reasons the Elder Dragons are only ever observed to be active in one small corner of it." - wiki

    There's six (if Aurene is excluded) in that small corner of the world, maybe there's in fact, hundreds of them around the world...!? jk :p

    Kormir ascended to Godhood through the combined aid of the Gods.
    A blessing from the 6 and the magic she absorbed when we killed a God.
    Since the Gods have now left Tyria it's very unlikely we'll see an event like this again, at least not one involving a Human God.

    I don't think we are done with this God story though, there is still a lot of potential to go into stories regarding Dhuum and Menzies.
    Dhuum maybe a stretch though since he already has a raid in the game but Menzies has been a storyline that a good number of us Gw1 players have really wanted to see happen in Gw2, specially since his brother and rival Balthazar is now dead, by our hand no less.. and of course because of his Shadow Army showing up on a portion of the Dragonfall map suggesting that he is still an active presence in the Fissure of Woe.

    Many of us are still curious as to the state of Balthazar's Realm since his death.
    Many of us think that there's a good chance Menzies may have completely overrun it at this point not just because Balthazar is now dead but also because he used many of his Eternal soldiers to create his Forged army on Tyria.. this very likely weakened his presence in the Fissure of Woe giving Menzies a potentially huge advantage there.

    As for new Elder Dragons.. this is a subject of interest for me personally.
    The only thing we know for a fact is that direct descendants of Elder Dragons can become new Elder Dragons as we saw with Aurine when they absorb the magic of an Elder Dragon.
    Glint, Vlast and Aurine all had the potential to replace Kralkatorrik but we don't know for sure if it's because they were Dragons, High Dragons or just because they were directly related to him.
    We don't really know how a Dragon ascends to become an Elder Dragon so it could be very likely that Aurine is/was the only living Dragon capable of doing this.
    We also do not know if Elder Dragons can even reproduce and lay eggs either, it kind of defies the point since they are immortal and reproduction would be pointless to them, Posisbly even detrimental if the only thing that could ever replace them would be their own offspring.
    While we do know some Elder Dragons did have children (Kralkatorrik) we don't know for sure if this happened before or after he became an Elder Dragon.
    We do know that Kralkatorrik had a mother as well so some of us strongly speculate that he wasn't always an Elder Dragon and there's a chance Glint was born before he became one and his ability to reproduce was lost after he became an Elder Dragon.
    If that is true then there's a good chance Aurine can never become a mother either.

    Many of us suspect that Kuunavang and maybe Albax too will end up having a connection with the Sea Dragon in EoD which could make them strong candidates for replacing it but that's about all the lower level Dragons left on Tyria that we know about.

    How we will deal with Jormag and Primordus at this point we simply do not know.
    Jormag has expressed a "change of heart" and desire to create a new world but it cannot and should not be trusted based on it's history.
    Primordus on the other hand to this day lives up to every original stereotype mortals had about Elder Dragons years ago.. a being of pure destruction and carnage.
    He will have to be dealt with one way or another or he will burn the world away..
    But at the moment we have absolutely no idea how this will or can happen since one more dead Elder Dragon should supposedly destroy the world.

  • EdwinLi.1284EdwinLi.1284 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2020

    We will have to wait until after the End of Dragons for them to start exploring beyond into regions we have never been to.

    As of now End of Dragons and maybe the Living World season after is meant to put a end to the Elder Dragon saga so they can begin moving the GW series storyline into the unknown regions were a lot of unknown civilizations, gods from beyond the ones we know, and etc exists. The developers have a lot of room as well due to ever since GW1 we had only explored 20% of the entire planet and there is still 80% of the planet yet to explored.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Raffrey.5271 said:
    Like Kormir, a human could ascend into godhood; like Aurene, a new elder dragon could born. Would we be able to witness more events like this?
    Maybe someone would try to be the god of war? Maybe there's more elder dragons out there? Tyria is big, you know.

    "Although the world of Tyria is quite large, for unknown reasons the Elder Dragons are only ever observed to be active in one small corner of it." - wiki

    There's six (if Aurene is excluded) in that small corner of the world, maybe there's in fact, hundreds of them around the world...!? jk :p

    Kormir ascended to Godhood through the combined aid of the Gods.
    A blessing from the 6 and the magic she absorbed when we killed a God.
    Since the Gods have now left Tyria it's very unlikely we'll see an event like this again, at least not one involving a Human God.

    A common theory is that the ascension has already happened, but it happened quietly off-screen. Some have commented that it would be fitting if it turned out that the GW1PC was chosen for the role, although of course this would be awkward to pull off given the range of professions and origins the GW1PC could have.

    @Svennis.3852 said:
    If we resolve the elder dragon threat at some point in the future, the next obvious step would be dealing with the human gods. We do know that Balthazar was 'stripped' of his divinity/magic/power by the other gods, and from established lore we know that power has to go into a new vessel immediately. The god that replaced Balthazar should already exist if the devs stick to those rules; they might not necessarily be a god/dess of war though. Sometimes the domains shift or invert as we've seen with Abbadon and Kormir. If we fight another god, and I don't have any desire to see that plot repeated, I imagine they would hail from the mists (maybe Xotecha). They could always bring back Desmina or Menzies as god-adjacent antagonists, but I doubt it.

    That's an interesting thought - is 'war' the central concept of the domain (as 'Knowledge' was for Kormir and Abaddon), or simply the aspect that Balthazar chose to focus on and the core concept is actually something like 'Courage' or 'Competition'?

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Raffrey.5271 said:
    Like Kormir, a human could ascend into godhood; like Aurene, a new elder dragon could born. Would we be able to witness more events like this?
    Maybe someone would try to be the god of war? Maybe there's more elder dragons out there? Tyria is big, you know.

    "Although the world of Tyria is quite large, for unknown reasons the Elder Dragons are only ever observed to be active in one small corner of it." - wiki

    There's six (if Aurene is excluded) in that small corner of the world, maybe there's in fact, hundreds of them around the world...!? jk :p

    Kormir ascended to Godhood through the combined aid of the Gods.
    A blessing from the 6 and the magic she absorbed when we killed a God.
    Since the Gods have now left Tyria it's very unlikely we'll see an event like this again, at least not one involving a Human God.

    A common theory is that the ascension has already happened, but it happened quietly off-screen. Some have commented that it would be fitting if it turned out that the GW1PC was chosen for the role, although of course this would be awkward to pull off given the range of professions and origins the GW1PC could have.

    I would very much like to see some kind of story content when you encounter your Gw1 characters in the mists or something.

    They wouldn't have to look exactly the same or have the same gear but just their class and names that you could pick out from a crowd and be like kitten!! those are my GW1 characters!!

    I think this is a very doable thing Anet could do in Gw2 providing players have their Guildwars accounts linked (which many of us do for the HoM rewards)
    They need only pull the names and class of our existing characters from Gw1 and add them as NPC's in a special mission in Gw2.
    Not saying it's an easy thing to do but I definitely think it would be possible :)

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    That's an interesting thought - is 'war' the central concept of the domain (as 'Knowledge' was for Kormir and Abaddon), or simply the aspect that Balthazar chose to focus on and the core concept is actually something like 'Courage' or 'Competition'?

    It could be similar to an Ares and Athena thing where they're both related to war in different ways. But honestly I see Kormir as the 'Athena' figure in the human pantheon, though I don't know if war/warfare could be shuffled to her as a secondary domain.

    Courage, Competition, Conflict, Glory, Conquest, Strength. There are a few different ways they could spin it. But is there actual lore stating that Abbadon and Kormir share a 'knowledge' domain but focus on different aspects of it?

    I could likewise imagine a god of War being succeeded by a god/dess of Peace, if they wanted to fully invert Balthazar's schtick.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2020

    I'm not sure if it's actually been said ingame (and they've said before that if it's not in-game, it's subject to revision), but this is basically the explanation from the devs for why Kormir is the Goddess of Truth while Abaddon was the God of Secrets. It's the same core domain, but since they have very different personalities, that influences how they are viewed. Abaddon focused on hoarding knowledge because knowledge is power, while Kormir seems to have focused on seeking truth (which is essentially another way of saying, seeking knowledge). There's probably nothing that would have stopped Abaddon before his madness being a God of Truth or Kormir becoming a Goddess of Secrets, it's just that they chose not to represent their domain that way.

    By the same logic, a hypothetical replacement for Balthazar doesn't necessarily have to present as a God of War. It'd still need to be something which is close enough that there's a common thread between the two, but where Balthazar reveled in warfare, a replacement who's somewhat less enthusiastic about fighting for fighting's sake might present as a deity of Protection (note that Balthazar was the patron of Protection Prayers in GW1), or Courage, or Conflict, or something like that. ('Strategy' is in a bit of a grey zone between War and Knowledge - it's interesting to note, though, that neither Abaddon nor Kormir were inclined to shy away from war.) It will still be the same domain, just taking a different angle on it.

    You could think of it as being like having a Department of Criminal Incarceration versus a Department of Corrective Services. Or, remaining in the general field of using analogies in a law enforcement area, having a Director for Homeland Security over a Director for the Secret Police. They're basically the same thing, but one has a different attitude (or at least wants to be perceived as having a different attitude) to the other.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2020

    @Raffrey.5271 said:
    Like Kormir, a human could ascend into godhood; like Aurene, a new elder dragon could born. Would we be able to witness more events like this?
    Maybe someone would try to be the god of war? Maybe there's more elder dragons out there? Tyria is big, you know.

    In order to become a god or Elder Dragon, the individual needs to take in the former god's or dragon's power. Balthazar was stripped of his power before GW2, so there should already be a new god of war out there. In theory, a not-lesser dragon can replace Zhaitan and Mordremoth if they can get enough of their domains' power, but atm most of that power is in Primordus (and formerly Kralkatorrik).

    @Raffrey.5271 said:
    There's six (if Aurene is excluded) in that small corner of the world, maybe there's in fact, hundreds of them around the world...!? jk :p

    Nope, because the Elder Dragons are connected to The All, which is global. There are only six.

    The Elder Dragons being centralized around Central Tyria is just kinda bad writing and mechanical reasons to avoid building an entire new continent per Elder Dragon (and to explain disconnection to Cantha and Elona.

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    That's an interesting thought - is 'war' the central concept of the domain (as 'Knowledge' was for Kormir and Abaddon), or simply the aspect that Balthazar chose to focus on and the core concept is actually something like 'Courage' or 'Competition'?

    Based on Garden of the Gods, the main central concepts would be:

    When the gods first brought humanity to this world, they were planting a garden; we were the seeds, with Tyria the fertile soil in which we would thrive. Like all gardens, it would experience and demonstrate life, death, challenge, order, growth, and beauty as it matured from carefully arranged rows of potential into dynamic, evolving reality.

    Life = Dwayna
    Death = Dhuum, then Grenth
    Challenge = Balthazar, then unknown
    Order = unknown, then Abaddon, then Kormir
    Growth = Melandru
    Beauty = Lyssa.

    It's rather curious how three of the gods' aspects are listed with their secondary or tertiary domains (challenge (3rd), order (2nd), and growth (3rd), while the other three are their primary ones (life, death, beauty).

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Challenge would certainly be a way to encompass War - many people regard war as the ultimate challenge, after all.

    Order is one I'm sceptical of. There is a link between knowledge and order - knowledge does, after all, require a certain amount of order to be stored, especially when it comes to storing it in a retrievable fashion. However, I don't really see that fitting for Abaddon. His associations were water, knowledge/secrets, magic and, ultimately, madness. One could say that the madness itself 'broke' his natural link to order, but if that's the core concept, I'd imagine it couldn't be twisted so far into its opposite.

    It's also worth noting that, if I recall correctly, the norn regarded Kormir as Knowledge.

    So rather than those being the core concepts, it's possible that Oloko was simply picking out the domains that most made sense for the garden metaphor. You don't generally think of a garden demonstrating war, knowledge, or even nature (gardens, by their, well, nature, are at least somewhat planned out by an intelligent gardener, rather than being truly wild), so he picked out domains that fit the metaphor. Which does make it curious that he picked one that Abaddon possibly didn't have himself considering that he's talking about events that occurred before Kormir's ascension, but let's face it - he's a priest of Kormir, he may not be entirely unbiased. It's possible that he was willing to overlook that it was an aspect that Abaddon didn't demonstrate much in order to ensure people are thinking of Kormir rather than Abaddon, to emphasise the difference between Kormir's order and Abaddon's madness, or even just that none of Abaddon's proclaimed domains fit the garden metaphor.

  • @Fenom.9457 said:
    We’re in a weird place where the plot would make perfect sense for there to be another dozen dragons out there, but it won’t happen due to real life reasons - people want to move on from that. Best we may get is a 7th/ultimate with this ‘mother’ kralkatorrik mentioned

    I'm still of the mindset that Tyria itself is "mother", and the final Elder Dragon. Jormag mentioned that The Balance doesn't exist, yet the EDs don't fight each other over food. Every ED seems to absolutely avoid each other like the plague, yet can use each other's magic when one dies. They either seem content with their territories, or they're more scared of something else dealing with them if they fight amongst themselves. Assuming that my theory is correct, it makes sense that they could use each other's magic, they're all essentially siblings from the same mother, and also explains why they don't seem to want to leave Tyria, even after being able to enter the Mists. Children tend not to stray too far from their parent after all.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2020

    @RyuDragnier.9476 said:
    yet the EDs don't fight each other over food. Every ED seems to absolutely avoid each other like the plague, yet can use each other's magic when one dies. They either seem content with their territories, or they're more scared of something else dealing with them if they fight amongst themselves.

    Except this is untrue. while we don't see it happen in-game, we know from lore that Elder Dragon minions will fight each other if they come across one another.

    Likewise, the achievement to collect Jormag Blood in Drizzlewood mentions this blood was formed when Jormag and Primordus fought each other in the region in ages past.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 13, 2020

    Plus, in the most recent release, Jormag is actively campaigning for Primordus' death. I think the idea that the Elder Dragons have some sort of unspoken compact with one another has been well and truly Jossed.

  • didnt the defs say the 'mother' kralkatorik mentioned revert to Glint? aurene's mother. it was just not written properly into the dialogue

  • @Amanda Whitemoon.6173 said:
    didnt the defs say the 'mother' kralkatorik mentioned revert to Glint? aurene's mother. it was just not written properly into the dialogue

    No, the line referring to Glint was when Kralkatorrik was talking about regretting killing the one they loved, which refers to Glint, his daughter. Some people at release (myself included) thought it might refer to the 'mother' figure but we were wrong.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Here's a better question: Why do we need another hostile entity when we already have one already that's pulling the strings?

    We witnessed it in LWS4. Unless we just believe everything we're told at face value as an objective truth—and no one should do that—it's kind of obvious from the story we experience ourselves that the torment isn't just "corrupted magic." It's an entity in and of itself. It's a brain parasite. For all we know, Mordremoth and Zhaitan were tormented. Kralkatorrik was the first time we saw what was driving dragons to be like this.

    What if Primordus is tormented? What if the deep sea dragon is tormented? What if we find a way to force the torment out of them, so that they ally with us? This could force the torment to find another way to enact its goal—entropy. The torment seems to seek the destruction of all things for the release of entropy, which might be its food source. All that it does could be towards this end, it's a parasite that destroys Universes in order to feed upon the release of entropic energies. An abstract predator.

    What is the torment, then? I think it could be the manifest will of the realm of torment. With all that's happened there, I wouldn't be at all surprised if a malevolent gestalt will had arisen. And it just wants to make suffering and death happen so that it can feed on the release of energies. What could happen following the freeing of dragons from torment is the torment playing its hand.

    Essentially, to defend its realm, the torment calls to the fore every tormented entity out there. This could include the Inquest, it could include the human Gods, it could include the Separatists. I mean, thanks to Jormag, the Renegades have been dealt with. The point is is that there could be an underlying reason for everything that's been occuring in Tyria, that reason could be torment.

    So the End of Dragons isn't about the death of dragons but rather their freedom from the grip of torment and their allegiance to our cause. When the torment plays its hand, it could be very interesting to find out just how many it's turned and tainted. It could make it a very difficult foe to fight since, in actuality, it wouldn't be the fault of those afflicted with torment—they're just puppets. That'd be an angle for the drama of dealing with the torment and why yet more flat-out murder isn't the answer. It might mean that we require more clever approaches, moving forward.

    Just a thought.

  • @Hypnowulf.7403 said:
    What is the torment, then? I think it could be the manifest will of the realm of torment. With all that's happened there, I wouldn't be at all surprised if a malevolent gestalt will had arisen. And it just wants to make suffering and death happen so that it can feed on the release of energies. What could happen following the freeing of dragons from torment is the torment playing its hand.

    Word association is a bad choice here. Anet has a bad tendency to over-use similar words - thesauruses are just too much sometimes, I guess - like how we have Agony and Spectral Agony but the two hold zero relation. Just because both utilize the word "torment" doesn't mean there's a relation. We already know what magical torment is - it's a condition (no not that one) that is caused in the individual by conflicting magic creating pain to the individual. In other words, torment itself is not a sapient thing, and is most certainly not a cause, but an effect that is the result of ancient, nigh-immortal beings being afflicted with pain and suffering to the point of mindbreak.

    It is less that "torment is an entity in and of itself" and more that torment warps the personality. And indeed it isn't "corrupted magic", it's conflicting magic. Or rather, torment is caused by conflicting magic. In Kralkatorrik's case, this created a split personality. This isn't explicitly so for the other Elder Dragons - if they're even afflicted with torment. It's entirely possible the entire split personality scenario was caused by the Forgotten, as we learned in Kesho that they performed a purifying ritual in an attempt to cleanse Kralkatorrik, but this failed because Kralkatorrik's greed was too great. But what if it didn't fail completely and awoke a small part of Kralkatorrik - one which couldn't wrestle control from the tormented self.

    The Realm of Torment has been under Kormir's control for the past 250 years, and she cleansed it of most malevolent entities during this time. We saw what happened once her defenses weakened with the griffon quest, but we also got told that Kormir's forces regained control after the initial assaults. The Realm of Torment - in contrast to magical torment - is merely an afterlife. A location, and has no will of its own (by all indication thus far).

    And what counters your argument of "Torment comes from the Realm of Torment" is that Kralkatorrik was assaulting and consuming the Realm of Torment as well as the other afterlives. So by your argument, Torment was destroying its own realm, that it would call others to defend.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Touchme.1097Touchme.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    "September 22, 2017 Path of Fire release: Demonic Lore has been added to the game." Bring the Demon lords into Tyria, it's gonna be fun. There are plenty of villains that can threaten Tyria other than Elder Dragons and Disgraced Gods. Now that Gods have departed to new worlds there are a lot of opportunities for villains to ascend. A new evil race of monsters can threaten tyrians as well, the mist is full of opportunities to expand the current lore. Other worlds and other dimensions can possibly exist in the game's lore, see how aberrations can expand the lore in RPGs and it can actually deliver a successful product.

  • @Touchme.1097 said:
    "September 22, 2017 Path of Fire release: Demonic Lore has been added to the game." Bring the Demon lords into Tyria, it's gonna be fun. There are plenty of villains that can threaten Tyria other than Elder Dragons and Disgraced Gods. Now that Gods have departed to new worlds there are a lot of opportunities for villains to ascend. A new evil race of monsters can threaten tyrians as well, the mist is full of opportunities to expand the current lore. Other worlds and other dimensions can possibly exist in the game's lore, see how aberrations can expand the lore in RPGs and it can actually deliver a successful product.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Demonic_Lore

    Demonic Lore is a trait from Scourge Elite Specialization. Most likely it doesn't mean anything to the backstory.

  • Stephen.6312Stephen.6312 Member ✭✭✭

    @Hypnowulf.7403 said:
    Here's a better question: Why do we need another hostile entity when we already have one already that's pulling the strings?

    We witnessed it in LWS4. Unless we just believe everything we're told at face value as an objective truth—and no one should do that—it's kind of obvious from the story we experience ourselves that the torment isn't just "corrupted magic." It's an entity in and of itself. It's a brain parasite. For all we know, Mordremoth and Zhaitan were tormented. Kralkatorrik was the first time we saw what was driving dragons to be like this.

    What if Primordus is tormented? What if the deep sea dragon is tormented? What if we find a way to force the torment out of them, so that they ally with us? This could force the torment to find another way to enact its goal—entropy. The torment seems to seek the destruction of all things for the release of entropy, which might be its food source. All that it does could be towards this end, it's a parasite that destroys Universes in order to feed upon the release of entropic energies. An abstract predator.

    What is the torment, then? I think it could be the manifest will of the realm of torment. With all that's happened there, I wouldn't be at all surprised if a malevolent gestalt will had arisen. And it just wants to make suffering and death happen so that it can feed on the release of energies. What could happen following the freeing of dragons from torment is the torment playing its hand.

    Essentially, to defend its realm, the torment calls to the fore every tormented entity out there. This could include the Inquest, it could include the human Gods, it could include the Separatists. I mean, thanks to Jormag, the Renegades have been dealt with. The point is is that there could be an underlying reason for everything that's been occuring in Tyria, that reason could be torment.

    So the End of Dragons isn't about the death of dragons but rather their freedom from the grip of torment and their allegiance to our cause. When the torment plays its hand, it could be very interesting to find out just how many it's turned and tainted. It could make it a very difficult foe to fight since, in actuality, it wouldn't be the fault of those afflicted with torment—they're just puppets. That'd be an angle for the drama of dealing with the torment and why yet more flat-out murder isn't the answer. It might mean that we require more clever approaches, moving forward.

    Just a thought.

    I think that you're on the right track with this approach. I'm not sure that I would go so far as to call "torment" an evil entity, though. I agree that it is an entity, or rather entities. But evil? I'm undecided about whether it's malevolent (magic) by nature, or whether it has become hostile as a result of traumatization. It'll be interesting to see how Anet try to explain the nature of torment, as the concept of magic experiencing trauma has been conspicuously ignored by tbe writing team.

    Maybe Canthan humanity is in a better position to help the lesser races of the Northern Tyrian Continent understand torment? Yet another reason why we must travel to Cantha.

    Want to delve into some theories about the lore and story of GW2? Check these posts out: The Search For Answers P1 and The Search For Answers P2.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raffrey.5271 said:

    @Touchme.1097 said:
    "September 22, 2017 Path of Fire release: Demonic Lore has been added to the game." Bring the Demon lords into Tyria, it's gonna be fun. There are plenty of villains that can threaten Tyria other than Elder Dragons and Disgraced Gods. Now that Gods have departed to new worlds there are a lot of opportunities for villains to ascend. A new evil race of monsters can threaten tyrians as well, the mist is full of opportunities to expand the current lore. Other worlds and other dimensions can possibly exist in the game's lore, see how aberrations can expand the lore in RPGs and it can actually deliver a successful product.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Demonic_Lore

    Demonic Lore is a trait from Scourge Elite Specialization. Most likely it doesn't mean anything to the backstory.

    Demons are an actual thing in the fluff, though. They're basically Mist-formed entities which are usually malevolent. In Guild Wars 1, we mostly fought demons that were loyal to one of the fallen gods, but they don't have to be (and the Utopia plotline was originally going to be going deeper into what demons are in the franchise... something that there are signs now that ArenaNet might be planning to reconstitute once the Elder Dragon arc is finished).

    So yeah... Demons attacking Tyria en masse? Or the PC having some reason to go into the Mists, where the demons are? Both perfectly plausible. Especially if the resolution of the Elder Dragons arc still leaves Tyria in a high-magic state where it might be relatively easy for rifts to open to the Mists.