I have got enough!

Good bye GW2. I gave them over two years to fix Mesmer. Turns out it was two years too many. See you in a different game maybe.

Fix how?

Definitions of "fix" differs from person to person.Some would "fix" mesmers by further nerfing them to the ground.Others like me would fix them by giving back what wasn't broken yet was taken away like a dodge and boonshare.

Since this is on the mesmer forums, i assume the latter? You're a Mesmer and you're dissatisfied with how horrible they're treating us?Or are you angry that mesmers can pull or something and that's somehow broken?

I'm sorry, but the way you made your post, it can literally mean anything. :tongue:

@"Veprovina.4876" said:Fix how?

Definitions of "fix" differs from person to person.Some would "fix" mesmers by further nerfing them to the ground.Others like me would fix them by giving back what wasn't broken yet was taken away like a dodge and boonshare.

Since this is on the mesmer forums, i assume the latter? You're a Mesmer and you're dissatisfied with how horrible they're treating us?Or are you angry that mesmers can pull or something and that's somehow broken?

I'm sorry, but the way you made your post, it can literally mean anything. :tongue:

I agree that OP is far too unspecific in the complaint and more would be helpful and necessary to truly have a conversation.

There was that 2+ year string of Mesmer & chrono nerfs that were brutal and they did a lot of re-imagining what the Mesmer is supposed to be including the coming and going of the boon Chrono. But at the moment both Chrono and Mirage seem to be in pretty good places DPS wise, although even as one who isn't a regular Mirage player the balance nerf taking away their second dodge I think that taking away the second dodge was a ridiculous and counterproductive nerf.

@OP You might consider following up with a more constructive post that lists out the things you consider to be problematic for Mesmer, and possibly even suggestions on how you think they might be better, rather than just expressing your vast but non-specific displeasure. However, if you are absolutely fixated on leaving, you might consider simply taking a break from the game and coming back later once you have passed some time doing other things which you find fun and engaging and see if later balance patches have changed things up in ways you are willing to accept.

See you when you come back!

@Moira Shalaar.5620 said:

@"Veprovina.4876" said:Fix how?

Definitions of "fix" differs from person to person.Some would "fix" mesmers by further nerfing them to the ground.Others like me would fix them by giving back what wasn't broken yet was taken away like a dodge and boonshare.

Since this is on the mesmer forums, i assume the latter? You're a Mesmer and you're dissatisfied with how horrible they're treating us?Or are you angry that mesmers can pull or something and that's somehow broken?

I'm sorry, but the way you made your post, it can literally mean anything. :tongue:

Well i know but DPS isn't everything. And even the DPS isn't top tier.

The problem with Mesmer right now, among others, that i see is - every profession can do what mesmers do but better. Mesmers are literally at the bottom of the barrel. We have clones but boy do we have to sacrifice a lot to actually use them, and they're useless in WvW big fights meaning, you lose all your potential utility there as well.The other problem is the "hypocrisy" i reluctantly call it as Mesmers have been given nerfs for stuff that was considered OP, when other classes were and still are better at the thing that they nerfed mesmers for...Alacrity is not given to just about every class, thief and necro can portal - how that makes sense i don't know...Glamour skills are the only ones acoss professions that don't have a trait associated with them to make them better like every other profession has...But yeah, you get my point. You need to really love mesmers now to keep playing one.

Anyway... The thread is vague, and until OP clarifies, there's really not much else to say about it than - good luck in whatever OP does next i guess.

@Excursion.9752 said:See you when you come back!

That reminds me:

@Yoci.2481 said:Good bye GW2. I gave them over two years to fix Mesmer. Turns out it was two years too many. See you in a different game maybe.

Can i get your stuff if you're leaving forever? :smile: I promise to make good use of it!

can i have your money

@"Veprovina.4876" said:Well i know but DPS isn't everything. And even the DPS isn't top tier.

That may vary some with game mode. At least in PVE/Raids Mesmer actually IS top tier.https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/mesmer/chronomancer/power/This isn't purely theoretical. My own raid group has a player who routinely pulls these kinds of numbers when he brings chrono.

The problem with Mesmer right now, among others, that i see is - every profession can do what mesmers do but better. Mesmers are literally at the bottom of the barrel. We have clones but boy do we have to sacrifice a lot to actually use them, and they're useless in WvW big fights meaning, you lose all your potential utility there as well.

I haven't played Mesmer in a Zerg setting, but I do know in small group/1v1 that the clones are seriously annoying, at least to me. That probably doesn't help you any though. :-)

The other problem is the "hypocrisy" i reluctantly call it as Mesmers have been given nerfs for stuff that was considered OP, when other classes were and still are better at the thing that they nerfed mesmers for...

Balance. The problem with balance is that its like chasing the end of the rainbow for that pot of gold. There isn't any absolute standard of what "balance" is, at least as far as what I am aware of. All I can say here is that NOBODY is happy with balance and I doubt that state will ever actually be achieved. Since this is about mesmers I will spare you my own thoughts on balance with Rangers which I myself play far more often except to say that we aren't any happier with what they have done to us either. > Alacrity is not given to just about every class, thief and necro can portal - how that makes sense i don't know...This does seem to be a bit of hyperbole here, although I cannot fault you for that. However, for clarity's sake, as far as I can see on wiki Mesmer & Revenant are the only classes that seem to consistently generate alacrity, with boon thief as a lesser source for themselves, but not others. The only other access seems to be from stealing boons which I think is a little different. Thief and Mesmer have always had a bit over overlap (stealth, ambush skills) and with both the necro and their versions of portal they are far more limited than the Mesmer version, so Mesmer clearly still has the edge on those. > Glamour skills are the only ones across professions that don't have a trait associated with them to make them better like every other profession has...Off the top of my head the thief Preparations (formerly traps) also does not have a corresponding trait line. Yet another "balance" change that has never made sense, at least to me. I would bet that there are others as well but that is subjective supposition on my part without the research to verify.

Glamour skills are the only ones across professions that don't have a trait associated with them to make them better like every other profession has...

Also off the top of my head, pretty sure Necro has spectral AND wells without a corresponding trait :)

@Moira Shalaar.5620 said:

@"Veprovina.4876" said:Well i know but DPS isn't everything. And even the DPS isn't top tier.

The problem with Mesmer right now, among others, that i see is - every profession can do what mesmers do but better. Mesmers are literally at the bottom of the barrel. We have clones but boy do we have to sacrifice a lot to actually use them, and they're useless in WvW big fights meaning, you lose all your potential utility there as well.

The other problem is the "hypocrisy" i reluctantly call it as Mesmers have been given nerfs for stuff that was considered OP, when other classes were and still are better at the thing that they nerfed mesmers for...

The problem with clones in WvW large scale fights is that they have health and they just don't survive the AOE spam. They die as soon as they're summoned. You can't do anything with them. In smaller sclae, yeah, they're ok, especially in roaming where you usually fight 1v1 or small groups, they can be useful there. But oh well, i usually run different builds that don't rely on clones so much in large scale anyway so it's not really that much of a problem. You adapt. :tongue:

That's true, every class is dissatisfied. And some did get the shaft harder than others. Idk about rangers and others but you have to agree (and i think you did in your previous post - correct me if i'm wrong), that mesmers got the worst of it. My problem with this isn't exactly "balance", i know they'll always going to balance the game, sometimes it's going to be bigger, sometimes smaller, and in a way, that's good, you don't really want to have a stale meta for years in a game, sometimes stuff needs to change. For years, mesmer meta was summoning 3 phantasms and then goign blblblblbb for the rest of the fight, just supporting your phantasms and other party members with occasional boons and whatnot. Then they changed how phantasms work and it was an interesting change (to me at least), and then shatter builds came up more as skills were adjusted to create more clones and phantasms turned into clones as well. Suddenly you had a steady stream of them to shatter as opposed to before as now phantasms gave you clones in addition to your clone generating skills. That's all fine.

The problem i have with how mesmers are handled is that whatever mesmers have that's good has to be nerfed, while other classes get to have their good stuff. And on top of it all, mesmers are the only class that got the ultimate nerf in WvW and that's the removal of a core mechanic that's available to everyone else.Honestly, i never complained about any balance patches even when they nerfed mesmers to the ground, i still played and will play mesmer. But messing with core mechanics is crossing the line. I loved playing mirage roamer. Now i can't, it feels weird and horrible and for what? Because mirage was good at evading CC and it was "impossible to beat". That's a lie. That's what people on the forum whine about while in reality, i beat mirages with my mirage, i've been beaten by classes in wvw and i'm sure a lot of people have killed a mirage, it's not like mirage was OP in any way, people were just lazy to learn how to fight one. Meanwhile, another class that was always better at evading both damage and CC is still even better at that with permaevade and permastealth. That's what i mean by hypocrisy. Mirage is considered OP for being able to evade, yet a daredevil with 3 dodges, and god knows how many skills to evade and stealth isn't? Yet the lesser one got the nerf.It's like - for example, guardian and druid are very good at healing. Druid is way better, but guardian's healing is nerfed for being too OP by removing a core mechanic - healing skill. How is that fair?

Anyway, i've made all my arguments about mirage dodge in another thread in the mesmer forum, i'm not going to go too deep into this, if you want to read my opinions on mesmer nerfs in general and arguments, it's all there. :smile:

About sharing unieque mesmer stuff - that's all again part of the "balance" and idk, i don't really like it but i don't have any strong opinions on it either. It just takes away from both classes uniqueness in my opinion. I know portals are still strongest on a mesmer but what skill did necros and thieves lose to be able to get a portal? A skill neither of them really need and isn't really thematic to their class anyway. Or alacrity, giving it to other professions, even if they can only give it to themselves means - you're eliminating the need for a mesmer or a revenant which used to be the only classes being able to give alacrity. And yeah it's still stronger on mes and rev, but here it's not about balance, it's abut class uniqueness. Not everybyody needs to have everything and while currently it's not "bad", it just to me seems like a worrying trend that could inevitabely level all the professions to the same generic "build" (my english is failing me here, build is not the right word, but i hope you get the picture). If it stays small like it is now, i'm fine with it in general. You'll still bring a mesmer or a rev if you need alacrity or something like that, other professions still have their unique skills for the most part, but i'd hate to see every class have everything. That would make each of them equally boring to play.

And the last part - i didn't know about traps, nor will i pretend to know every trait line in the game lol, but i thought every profession got at least one trait tied to utility skills. If thieves also don't have one, then that sucks too, what are traits for then? They should give at least 1 trait (not trait line) as an option to buff a certain set of utility skills for everyone, why should thieves not want a trait to buff their preparations or mesmers have a trait to buff glamour skills? It's weird...

Anyway, sorry for the long post. :tongue:

To be fair, they did fix Chrono by giving them IP back.

@Yasai.3549 said:To be fair, they did fix Chrono by giving them IP back.

What's IP?And when was it even missing?I only recently got back from a long hiatus so i don't know all the changes except the ones i remember from when i played and when i came back.

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:To be fair, they did fix Chrono by giving them IP back.

You know, you can shatter without having clone, because the shatter appears on you. Well, when the chrono change happened, this wasn't available anymore. And they put it back after more than one year. But for one year, chrono couldn't even self shatter, it needed at least one clone.

@Woltarion.6829 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:To be fair, they did fix Chrono by giving them IP back.

Oh that's what IP means! What's this short for? :smiley:Yeah, i know i can shatter on myself without clones. That used to be a trait way back, i think before HoT or somewhere along HoT release i think. Was something like, when you shatter clones, an additional shatter appears on you. Wasn't aware they removed it. But now it's permanent, yeah, i don't need to specifically trait for that.But no clone shatters are someitmes very weak in the benefits they apply. Still, better than needing clones to do so, so that's good. No clone shatters are still shatters after all and can be good for certain applications. :smile:Thanks for explaining, i wasn't sure what IP meant.

Illusionary PersonaWith Restorative Illusions, it allows you to dispel one condi for each shatter so it's super usefull in a condi meta to be able to shatter with no clone in order to dispel in case of danger. With Bountiful Disillusionment it gives you free buff, many rotation of chrono support started with continuum split, and then spam the others shatter to get the buff, and then share the buff with signet inspiration. Now all of this isn't possible anymore, for chrono they deleted distortion, and signet of inspiration doesn't share boons anymore. It was super clunky to not have IP for chrono so they gave it back after 1 year. Strangely, chrono is one of the best dps on raid/PVE, but for PvP it's really rare to have decent damage with it.

@Woltarion.6829 said:Strangely, chrono is one of the best dps on raid/PVE, but for PvP it's really rare to have decent damage with it.

To be fair, Chrono can output a ridiculous amount of damage on a glass build and it is fairly effective if you aren't being targeted. Against bad teams or teams that don't take the Chrono seriously you can literally destroy the opposing team. The issue is that when you're up against people who know what they're doing and hard target you Chrono falls apart very quickly. It needs distortion for spvp.

Yeah, ridiculous damage build on a glass build, but some other classs can also have the same damage output without being made of glass.

@Jables.4659 said:

@Woltarion.6829 said:Strangely, chrono is one of the best dps on raid/PVE, but for PvP it's really rare to have decent damage with it.

every dps can destroy teams if ignored, other classes just happen to not fold like a house of cards when attackedI suggest you people run arcdps when you pvp, you will realize how fucking stupid other classes are, 30s duel with condi rev? do 30k dmg, he is still full HP :)oh you targetted that necro during a team fight for a minute nonstop? well you did 190k dmg to him but he is still full hp, :)oh you took 20k dmg? it will take you 200s to heal that damage, :)

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

every dps can destroy teams if ignored, other classes just happen to not fold like a house of cards when attackedI suggest you people run arcdps when you pvp, you will realize how kitten stupid other classes are, 30s duel with condi rev? do 30k dmg, he is still full HP :)oh you targetted that necro during a team fight for a minute nonstop? well you did 190k dmg to him but he is still full hp, :)oh you took 20k dmg? it will take you 200s to heal that damage, :)

I am very much on the buff mesmer hype train, but I do think they need to be careful about how they do that with Chrono. CS is extremely powerful and I don't see a world where Anet lets that mechanic stay while also giving Chrono the sustain it needs.

@Woltarion.6829 said:Yeah, ridiculous damage build on a glass build, but some other classs can also have the same damage output without being made of glass.

Took the words out of my mouth, thank you! Try running that build in WvW and you'll see how useful all that dps is when everyone else with more dps AND toughness can 1 shot you. I swear, suport builds have more damage than mesmers...

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Jables.4659 said:

@Woltarion.6829 said:Strangely, chrono is one of the best dps on raid/PVE, but for PvP it's really rare to have decent damage with it.

Works with WvW as well. Not only can they survive ridiculous damage, but also dish out more damage than a full glass mesmer WHILE having toughness as well. Not to mention self heals... People have no idea how fragile mesmers are and what tons of compromises they need to make in order to do 1 thing mediocre, while other classes can have it all so to speak without needing to sacrifice much.

@Jables.4659 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

every dps can destroy teams if ignored, other classes just happen to not fold like a house of cards when attackedI suggest you people run arcdps when you pvp, you will realize how kitten stupid other classes are, 30s duel with condi rev? do 30k dmg, he is still full HP :)oh you targetted that necro during a team fight for a minute nonstop? well you did 190k dmg to him but he is still full hp, :)oh you took 20k dmg? it will take you 200s to heal that damage, :)

there is nothing out there to buff, since mesmer has NO HEALING whatsoever in ANY of dps traitlinesthe ONLY thing is regeneration on dodge in mirage, but hurr durr 1 dodge so you dont even get to use it lol.Meanwhile you have power revs pretending that their sustain is low, all the while they have healing legit everywhere, from traits to pulsing regen, to 2 healing skills and even on staff. Holo that can legit quadruple mesmers healing with ease, necro against whoom trading damage 5:1 is actually considering losing :D

@Jables.4659 said:

@"Woltarion.6829" said:Strangely, chrono is one of the best dps on raid/PVE, but for PvP it's really rare to have decent damage with it.

Let's not forget what they need to do for that damage in PvE.

In other words... This is how you get arthritis and carpal tunner syndrome!Not even elementalists have such long rotations!

Meanwhile in other classes land:

Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam...

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Jables.4659 said:

@"Woltarion.6829" said:Strangely, chrono is one of the best dps on raid/PVE, but for PvP it's really rare to have decent damage with it.

my favourite is reaper, 3-4 skills then hold mouse 1

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Jables.4659 said:

@"Woltarion.6829" said:Strangely, chrono is one of the best dps on raid/PVE, but for PvP it's really rare to have decent damage with it.

And i'm betting it does more damage than the entire mesmer's rotation, am i right? :smile:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Jables.4659 said:

@"Woltarion.6829" said:Strangely, chrono is one of the best dps on raid/PVE, but for PvP it's really rare to have decent damage with it.

nah, its not too hot, but then again. when stars dont align reaper will have more dps due to the fact that there is nothing to fuck up and nothing that can go wrongI remember doing one of the strike missions and noticed that one of the bosses had aoe that kept 1shoting phantasms... yea others dont have to deal with this kind of shit :D

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Jables.4659 said:

@"Woltarion.6829" said:Strangely, chrono is one of the best dps on raid/PVE, but for PvP it's really rare to have decent damage with it.

Haha, try summoning clones in WvW, see what happens!Even phantasms can get one shotted there, let alone some big PvE boss. :tongue:

But yeah, other classes don't have to do anything to be good, while mesmers have to break their fingers and still be mediocre.It's sad...