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Councilor Vark

hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited December 10, 2020 in Lore

@Cobalt Flame.8056 @Fire Attunement.9835. The first chapter introduced that character, which has an ortographic mistake by the way (missing a "l" in councillor); we never heard about that person until now, in addition of not having any talk option from he to know more about him, it is hard to believe it is an actual councillor. Why he is here, a replacement? Already enough members were established on the wiki for each seat so apart one beeing fired I don't see how it is possible. It has the same voice as Councillor Yahk, so I am doubtful too if it is really Vark or Yahk. Saying in short, you can't introduce a new character especially councillor without context.
Current known one: Haia - Ludo - Zudo - Phlunt - Flax - Yahk - Canni and there are 7 seats in the arcane level, not 8! And yes, professor Canni is a confirmed one.

Shiny links, take a look!
->Ideas: Housing , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
->Project: ASURAN/PRIMORDIUS EXPANSION available on WIKI.
->NEW: Crucible of Eternity path 4: Legacy on WIKI
->NEW Asurapedia

Comments

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm pretty certain you posted this before... Why again?

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 10, 2020

    @Ashantara.8731 said:
    I'm pretty certain you posted this before... Why again?

    Just checked, nah. Not in bugs too. I never spoke about the missing "l". Through, I may have spoke about the character itself in my episode feedback.
    90% of that post is new, and i want an answer from them.

    Shiny links, take a look!
    ->Ideas: Housing , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    ->Project: ASURAN/PRIMORDIUS EXPANSION available on WIKI.
    ->NEW: Crucible of Eternity path 4: Legacy on WIKI
    ->NEW Asurapedia

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @hugo.4705 said:
    Just checked, nah. Not in bugs too. I never spoke about the missing "l". Through, I may have spoke about the character itself in my episode feedback.
    90% of that post is new, and i want an answer from them.

    Hmm, perhaps it was in the Feedback thread, in which case it probably was overread by most. I found your (or whoever else it was :p ) discovery quite fascinating! :)

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The Council isn't set in stone - in fact, it's common enough for members to actually try to get themselves replaced on the council - so if it's been a few years since we last heard about the council, a substitution or two probably isn't surprising. Would be interesting to see just how it happened, but I could easily see the Commander just not caring, especially a non-asura commander.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 11, 2020

    As per the novel Edge of Destiny, most members of the Arcane Council actually despise the job and will actively try to avoid. This is because being a council member means less time for their personal projects and experiments. Keep in mind that the last time we saw the full council was in 1325 AE. The closest second is 1327 AE (in Season 3 Episode 1), where ANet very oddly brough Councilor Haia back to life.

    In Edge of Destiny, there is a newly appointed councilor - Klab - who has no mention by the time of 1325. This means that council members can "swap out" within 5 years or less. It's been 6 since 1327 (current year being 1333) and 8 since 1325.

    A new council member is 110% expected. In fact, the only members that should be consistent is Yahk (because Inquest want a seat), Flax (who wants control over asuran government - that's his personal project), and the deans of the three colleges (Phlunt, Ludo, and Zudo). This leaves 3 seats to cycle through regularly: Haia's, Bleent's, and Canni's. Vark could have replaced any one of them - or even Yahk, if the Inquest felt the need to replace him.

    Even ignoring the fact that Flax said he would have Haia unceremoniously assassinated for attempting to assassinate the entire rest of the Arcane Council, there are two council members distinctly MIA from Season 3's tour of Rata Novus and IBS (as well as the entire personal story): Canni and Bleent. The second of which had an active petition to remove him from the council in 1325 (and given neither of them ever showed up for council matters, it's a good chance they eventually got replaced).

    It is also pretty clear this is an intentionally new NPC and new member of the Arcane Council, as he has zero similarities with any prior councillor - skin tone, skin pattern, hair color, hair pattern, face, eye color and name are all different. Initially, I thought ANet had brought back another dead NPC (since they seem to do that a bit much - four times so far), Varkk who sought to join the council to further the Inquest's influence (and his own personal ambitions). But Vark and Varkk, despite the all too similar names, has zero other similarities. Thankfully.

    As to the spelling - the proper spelling is councilor, not councillor. The extra l was probably done for flavor, and the devs "misspelled" Vark's title in doing this.

    @hugo.4705 said:
    Current known one: Haia - Ludo - Zudo - Phlunt - Flax - Yahk - Canni and there are 7 seats in the arcane level, not 8! And yes, professor Canni is a confirmed one.

    I don't think the number of physical seats is important. In 1325, there are 9 members, as you missed Bleent.

    Canni and Bleent are, as noted, MIA from IBS.

    And nothing actually says they cannot add a new seat - with new tasks - as new situations, like the rise of an Elder Dragon right next door, arises.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2020

    Councillor is the UK / british english version, while councilor is the american one (just like armour/armor).

    Neither one is wrong or the correct one, but given that the other councillors of the Arcane Council use the BE version of the title, Vark should so, too, just to be consistent.

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you.

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 12, 2020

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    A new council member is 110% expected. In fact, the only members that should be consistent is Yahk (because Inquest want a seat), Flax (who wants control over asuran government - that's his personal project), and the deans of the three colleges (Phlunt, Ludo, and Zudo). This leaves 3 seats to cycle through regularly: Haia's, Bleent's, and Canni's. Vark could have replaced any one of them - or even Yahk, if the Inquest felt the need to replace him.

    It is also pretty clear this is an intentionally new NPC and new member of the Arcane Council, as he has zero similarities with any prior councillor - skin tone, skin pattern, hair color, hair pattern, face, eye color and name are all different. Initially, I thought ANet had brought back another dead NPC.

    And nothing actually says they cannot add a new seat - with new tasks - as new situations, like the rise of an Elder Dragon right next door, arises.

    Just gonna cut the edge of destiny and mispelling parts, as to me only what is IN game matter, don't care of novels or books or stories that are around somewhere.
    I didn't count bleent, because, he isn't in the council room, but doing oozes experiment. What is my concern, is that there is NO dialogues or talk options, regarding the past events in the council, even their guide tour around rata novus isn't even mentionned! And if there is nothing, and can't buy that that easily. If they add a seat in the arcane council level, even in the normal instance, outside the story of IBS and give lore and dialogues about how he arrived here, then I'm fine; but you can't add a new character like this, without context. Regarding bleent, then here ok, I agree, since it didn't shown a lot, he may have been replaced, by the new one if it matters.
    Also, this is a personnal nitpick, but it is strange to put those 3 councillors and not even Flax which is the high councillor or Yahk, but anyway, I disliked the story.
    So yup, it doesn't matter that "changes can happens" but as long they aren't notified, there is no dialogues behind it, putting light on that affair, I'm gonna consider the council to be the same as the one seen in personnal story. That dude didn't even presented itself to the commander nor the other introduced it, I think especially of asura players, who participated in the water machine arc of arcane council, or with rakt and the arcane eye. Some light on its origin and its role will be cool.

    Even you said it, the members that should be consistent are Yahk/Flax/Phlunt/Ludo/Zudo and tell me, how many of them we saw during story? ONE. Haia, may have been eliminated due to her tentative of assassination, but then, they should have put a sentence for the new one like "I'm replacing Haia"... I will consider that Bleent stay, so that mean, 7 seats. The correct number. Even if things evolves, I don't see Anet adding a new seat model. It is maybe established to have 7 seats, but like this too, no proofs, no hints about that.

    About your part of "A new dragon arises" it justify a new seat, just no. Asura are too confident, and even the fact that they would go for alliance with jormag doesn't make a single sense. This is because they are so self confident and thinking only of their race instead of others that they got kicked out of their undergrounds, because their former arcane council said they are enough strong to deal with it, no hints that the story wouldn't repeat itself. This is just another bad story stelling, because they just want a plot of jormag = good.

    Shiny links, take a look!
    ->Ideas: Housing , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    ->Project: ASURAN/PRIMORDIUS EXPANSION available on WIKI.
    ->NEW: Crucible of Eternity path 4: Legacy on WIKI
    ->NEW Asurapedia

  • hugo.4705hugo.4705 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:
    The Council isn't set in stone - in fact, it's common enough for members to actually try to get themselves replaced on the council - so if it's been a few years since we last heard about the council, a substitution or two probably isn't surprising. Would be interesting to see just how it happened, but I could easily see the Commander just not caring, especially a non-asura commander.

    Yup, I think this is what disturb me the most, most of my characters are asura, who lived the infinity ball, the transatmospheric device in the council or the flax/rakt/haia tentatives against the council.; and so I would like to know how that new seat or substitution happened. Changing one of your council isn't one of all day thing, if it happens, every asura would receive an holo-letter on their datapad about the new councillor and its role. Especially a commander associated of that race, needing to know to who he/she must speak in case of emergency. Here nothing, he just popped. Also, he say "Don't care of your charrs things, this isn't a battlefield" and then say "Okay alliance with jormag", this new one isn't a light bulb. Since Personnal story, they try to hide the truth to citizens about dragons, and now welcoming a corrupted charr is okay...
    I just need intel and infos how it happened, just like phlunt staying in taimi lab all this time with councillors visiting it without news about them...

    Shiny links, take a look!
    ->Ideas: Housing , Designing a new lounge , New GameMode
    ->Project: ASURAN/PRIMORDIUS EXPANSION available on WIKI.
    ->NEW: Crucible of Eternity path 4: Legacy on WIKI
    ->NEW Asurapedia

  • @hugo.4705 said:
    Just gonna cut the edge of destiny and mispelling parts, as to me only what is IN game matter, don't care of novels or books or stories that are around somewhere.

    You can't say that ANet is ignoring the lore, when you yourself ignore the lore, without coming off as excessively hypocritical.

    I didn't count bleent, because, he isn't in the council room, but doing oozes experiment.

    Neither is Cammi, yet you included her. Again: your arguments are being hypocritical. You actively and acknowledgingly ignore half the lore just to spout others are ignoring lore.

    What is my concern, is that there is NO dialogues or talk options, regarding the past events in the council, even their guide tour around rata novus isn't even mentionned!

    And where would this mentioning be needed? Especially about the tour - where in the context of this release's narrative would "oh, and we took tours of Rata Novus five years ago at all matter. It's rather odd and silly to expect a full story recap whenever we return to some character or group - I mean, we didn't really get such for Livia or Demmi in Season 3, or the Arcane Council members either, Heck, in Season 3 when Phlunt and Taimi butted heads, I don't think they ever mentioned the W.Y.R.D. that Taimi made and Phlunt appropriated, just her dislike of him for "trying to steal Novus from her".

    but you can't add a new character like this, without context.

    Eh, you rather can, especially when the focus is on the group not the individual. Would it be nice to have context? Sure. But is it necessary? No. There are a lot of minor characters in groups - even small groups - which show up without context to their history.

    For example, in Season 2, there is a member of the Wardens that we interact with quite a bit in the first half - Warden Lochin - who introduces us to the Pale Tree, who acts as her guard. And dies during The World Summit. And that's pretty much all we know of him, despite being presented as basically the Pale Tree's personal guard and herald.

    Also, this is a personnal nitpick, but it is strange to put those 3 councillors and not even Flax which is the high councillor or Yahk, but anyway, I disliked the story.

    I picked those three because they're the college deans. As established already, members of the Council are not a set-in-stone thing, and is in fact very, very fluid. But being a college dean may very well be much less fluid, which means those three positions on the council are less likely to swap out.

    I would argue Yahk's position is very much fluid, as what's important isn't Yahk himself, but the Inquest having at least one seat on the council - Yahk is there so long as the Inquest desire him to be there.

    Even you said it, the members that should be consistent are Yahk/Flax/Phlunt/Ludo/Zudo and tell me, how many of them we saw during story? ONE.

    Well, I just said Phlunt, Ludo, and Zudo really. That said, wiki establishes the entire PS council (even Haia) as being present in Primordus Rising instance, and Phlunt shows up in the Eye of the North.

    Haia, may have been eliminated due to her tentative of assassination, but then, they should have put a sentence for the new one like "I'm replacing Haia"... I will consider that Bleent stay, so that mean, 7 seats. The correct number.

    Well, no. Because like Morning and Etinel, Haia mysteriously comes back to life... And is present in both Season 3 and IBS.

    And Bleent + Cammi + Haia and the rest = 8 seats, not 7. As I established before.
    1. Flax
    2. Yahk
    3. Phlunt
    4. Zudo
    5. Ludo
    6. Haia
    7. Bleent
    8. Cammi

    About your part of "A new dragon arises" it justify a new seat, just no. Asura are too confident, and even the fact that they would go for alliance with jormag doesn't make a single sense. This is because they are so self confident and thinking only of their race instead of others that they got kicked out of their undergrounds, because their former arcane council said they are enough strong to deal with it, no hints that the story wouldn't repeat itself. This is just another bad story stelling, because they just want a plot of jormag = good.

    Their alliance with Jormag makes sense because they are too confident, and dedicating a new position to a new threat also makes sense because they hate having more tasks unrelated to their personal experiments - the Arcane Council wouldn't want to add more work onto themselves, for the same reason Yahk establishes that the other members shove their work onto him and the Inquest (which they gladly take because power and influence mwuahahaha).

    PC: What have you done to settle Council disputes?
    Yahk: My access to the Inquest has made it possible for me to outsource the Council's project vetting to them.

    @hugo.4705 said:
    Changing one of your council isn't one of all day thing, if it happens, every asura would receive an holo-letter on their datapad about the new councillor and its role.

    I think you overestimate both the level of tech asura have on an widespread individual scale, and overestimate how much asura society really cares about their so-called social government.

    Asura are nearly as individualistic as the norn in general, and extremely egotistical to boot. I imagine that, beyond rules and regulations that would cause them trouble, well over two thirds of the asuran population couldn't give a hoot about who is on the Arcane Council until they need to file a report.

    Especially a commander associated of that race, needing to know to who he/she must speak in case of emergency.

    You also overestimate the Commander's influence, I think. I mean, no one really notifies them about any other political matter (until the Commander is personally requested to deal with a situation, or headbutts their way into that situation). So why would the Arcane Council be any different?

    I think you're just being a bit bias about this off-screen development given - as you said - most of your characters are asuran. Charr, norn, humans and sylvari all received similar off-screen developments without the Commander finding out until it became important. And usually only gets to know the details of the character if the character has personal plot development like Efram.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    I think you're just being a bit bias about this off-screen development given - as you said - most of your characters are asuran. Charr, norn, humans and sylvari all received similar off-screen developments without the Commander finding out until it became important. And usually only gets to know the details of the character if the character has personal plot development like Efram.

    This. For instance, the only information we have about the last known leader of the Nightmare Court is that she fought beside us at Dragon's Stand, wears light armour, and if you pay close attention to her combat animations you can figure out her profession. She could have been assassinated and replaced years ago for all we know. And the leader of what at least used to be the sylvari enemy faction is probably more important than one, possibly temporary, member of the Arcane Council.

    Would it be nice to know more? Sure. But this sort of gap in our knowledge of something that should be easily available if we actually did live in Tyria is, unfortunately, pretty common in the game.