Return grenades

Nades are now useless. Was that nerf really necessary?

@Filip.7463 said:Was that nerf really necessary?

Yes.123456

@Filip.7463 said:Nades are now useless. Was that nerf really necessary?

Yes it was.

@Filip.7463 said:Nades are now useless. Was that nerf really necessary?

Grenade Holo was in dire need of nerfs.Sadly, Arenanet chose to nerf Grenades to hell instead of tackling the actual problem: Holosmith

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Filip.7463 said:Nades are now useless. Was that nerf really necessary?

Sorry man......grenades were busted in general, they still remain a threat now..just not broken state threat

@Filip.7463 said:Nades are now useless. Was that nerf really necessary?

They're far from useless...you just got used to busted levels of dmg...welcome back to planet earth

You talking about Ostrich Eggs build from like 2014?

Funny you can go from not killing squat, then all sudden you play meta, you actually kill people now.

Builds seemed like a secret back then.No surprise people wanted to watch others play, they really wanted their build.

Hmmm this bunker guardian is good, what build is he though.

...They make a feature, you watch people play, get there build.A year later, never in use. Designed for #esports, still very useful, yet just a memory some people don't realize is already a feature.

But again yes I remember the Ostrich Eggs build, thats when I also realized, I need to start doing what Metabattle tells me to do too.You aint meta, you aint killing squat as a casual.

Ah, Core Grenade Engi. Clearly an avenger level threat. It needed nerfs... thank the heavens that monster will never terrorize the mists again!

@Fueki.4753 said:

Grenade Holo was in dire need of nerfs.Sadly, Arenanet chose to nerf Grenades to hell instead of tackling the actual problem: Holosmith

Even with Grenade nerfs, Holo still vastly outperforms a good majority of builds.I think Explosive Entrance needs to not reset on dodge period.Make Explosive Entrance reset upon, say, landing 5 explosions.

On dodge is just too easy to refresh that damage, barrier and blind.

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

Grenade

Holo

was in dire need of nerfs.Sadly, Arenanet chose to nerf Grenades to hell instead of tackling the actual problem: Holosmith

I would actually like this a lot. It would raise the value of Crystal Configuration: Storm, but I would put a small interval on it of 0.25 sec.Grenade autos on their own count as 3 explosions, so you would be proccing EE + Flashbang on every other grenade toss.

I'd also question if each tick of Firebomb should count towards the timer. Same way it does with Explosive temper. I'm tempted to say allow it because bomb kit is extremely avoidable, but I could also see complaints arising about non-interactive playstyles centered around placing fire bomb on node.

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

Grenade

Holo

was in dire need of nerfs.Sadly, Arenanet chose to nerf Grenades to hell instead of tackling the actual problem: Holosmith

But think about it this way- engis have to waste a dodge to proc this and this is in combat so they need to force defensive resources for the bonus offensive pressure.

nope 1234

@"Dantheman.3589" said:

But think about it this way- engis have to waste a dodge to proc this and this is in combat so they need to force defensive resources for the bonus offensive pressure.

Totally wrong way to look at it.

They aren't "wasting a dodge" for offensive gain like Mirages do with IH.They are gaining an offensive bonus for using a dodge.

Holo is being put in the spotlight here because they already have plenty of offensive capabilities without Explosives traitline, as shown with already existing builds like Prot Holo.

Factoring in Explosives traitline, Explosive entrance gives them bonus damage, Barrier and blind, off just using a dodge.

That's basically rewarding a dodge with a bonus attack, which ALSO gives bonus defensive aftereffects.

If yu are spam dodging as Engi to use Explosive Entrance then I have nothing to say other than yu deserve to get killed.

@Yasai.3549 said:Even with Grenade nerfs, Holo still vastly outperforms a good majority of builds.How about Arenanet tackles the actual problem, which is Holosmith, not Core Engineer, instead?After all, the over-performance comes out of that one traitline.

I think Explosive Entrance needs to not reset on dodge period.Make Explosive Entrance reset upon, say, landing 5 explosions.People need to stop suggestion things that would damage the entire profession, while still failing to reign in that one specialization.

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

Grenade

Holo

was in dire need of nerfs.Sadly, Arenanet chose to nerf Grenades to hell instead of tackling the actual problem: Holosmith

wouldnt that make EE barrage insta proc EE twice? wouldnt every secound nade auto give ee? And tying entire traitline to 1 weapon kit is a design handicap in general

@Yasai.3549 said:Even with Grenade nerfs, Holo still vastly outperforms a good majority of builds.How about Arenanet tackles the actual problem, which is Holosmith,

not Core Engineer,

instead?After all, the over-performance comes out of that one traitline.

I think Explosive Entrance needs to not reset on dodge period.Make Explosive Entrance reset upon, say, landing 5 explosions.People need to stop suggestion things that would damage the entire profession, while still failing to reign in that one specialization.

Doing this would actually be a massive buff you'd have to add an interval like I mentioned earlier in order to prevent serious abuse. Imagine the perma blinds

Since everybody does it I'll pull the most useless and stupidest argument for that ever."BuT iVe SeEn SoMeOnE oN tWiTcH sTiLl PlAy NaDe HoLo So It Is StIlL GoOd!"

Given, it is usually "someone in the last AT" and not "someone on twitch" but then again I don't watch AT-spectates since Jawgeous is gone. But for everyone complaining now, I fully agree.. refering to the AT builds is even more useless and stupid since you simply can't compare the balance of "5v5 full team builds picked specifically against the opponent's comp" with "generic silver- and gold-rank solo queue builds" in the slightest.

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Even with Grenade nerfs, Holo still vastly outperforms a good majority of builds.How about Arenanet tackles the actual problem, which is Holosmith,

not Core Engineer,

instead?After all, the over-performance comes out of that one traitline.

Yea I get that people don't want Core touched, but Explosives is literally carrying the entire Engi Profession right now : it's just too good.Scrapper is also just as bad as Holo when it comes to abusing Nades.

If people really want Core Engi to be better, then start asking for Tools buffs or rework.One thing which Core Engi has which isn't gimped like Holo and Scrapper is having a fully unrestricted Toolbelt, counting its Toolbelt Elite.

Tools could use a significant rework to its traits so that it has more uses than just the passive traits.For one, Static Discharge is still a load of hot garbage when it comes to its targeting.Power Wrench is too specific to only Tool-Kit which is useless in general besides like 3 skills.

Streamlined Kit effects are too weak compared to how strong Lock On is, because Engis can benefit way more from the Vuln application than any of the other effects from Streamlined Kit.Takedown Round makes no sense existing on Tools tbh, it feels more like an Explosives Trait, and again, its usefulness is extremely limited being a damage only skill which only procs when the target is above 50% hp.

Adrenal Implant : I have no idea why this thing is a GM Major. This is basically the same as Rev/Ranger's trait Minor but it's taking up a Major slot, on the GM tier.Sure, it's 2x stronger, but it shouldn't really take a GM Major slot.

Wanting Core to be strong is fine, but if Core, and by extension the entire Engi family is being carried by Explosives in their performance, it's obvious then that Explosives is way too strong.

wrong discussion header ? grenades still exist and can be used.

@Filip.7463 said:Nades are now useless.not true. They exist and do some damage.

Was that nerf really necessary?no, this is balance. Most changes do for changes, not for some target. Current change now make possible use somethin more than grenades, so it is gift, but not penalty.

Yes, it was needed. Next.

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Even with Grenade nerfs, Holo still vastly outperforms a good majority of builds.How about Arenanet tackles the actual problem, which is Holosmith,

not Core Engineer,

instead?After all, the over-performance comes out of that one traitline.

The problem is that that wouldnt actually make Core Engineer playable. Core Engineer has an inherent flaw where its weapons are garbage. By design, theyre meant to be utility. Youre meant to use your utilities, i.e. primarily kits, for damage. If you nerf every half-way playable kit into oblivion, like Grenade Kit just was, then core engineer has no good weapon to use. Buffing Tools is not going to change that. And no, Explosives isnt the issue. Every thief is "carried" by Trickery. Every guardian is "carried" by virtues. There is usually one amazing traitline that every version of the class plays. Explosives is that traitline for engineer. Kinda always has been.

just because core engi is bad and scrapper mediocre doesn't mean nades were fine on those specs. obviously core engi with rifle sucked when i played it and the defense was horrible, but i could still basically oneshot people with a 10k nade barrage.. (this was before nerfs)

nades were problematic no matter which spec ran it. just because engi sucks doesn't mean you don't have to nerf unhealthy skills. sooner or later nade kit would have been nerfed anyway.

was the damage nerf the only way to do it? no, and i don't mind skills that hit hard and punish you if you fail to dodge them, as long as they are fair. animation clarity is very bad on nade skills if you don't cast them max range and being able to use that kind of a burst from stealth is just plain stupid.

@Jekkt.6045 said:nades were problematic no matter which spec ran it. just because engi sucks doesn't mean you don't have to nerf unhealthy skills. sooner or later nade kit would have been nerfed anyway.

I've kinda been mentioning this already : Anet nerfing problematic things is fine, but they never ever compensate for those nerfs by buffing other parts of the profession which is suffering.Has always been the case forever.

Their balancing philosophy is just to close every single door available till yur Profession is no longer popular, then they go and hit the next popular build.And then once in awhile yu do get a tiny bit of buff which suddenly rockets yur Profession into viability and popularity, then that becomes the next popular build and the cycle repeats.

Engi just got smacked, up next is probably gonna be some other meta build again, probably Necro or Herald, who knows.

@Jekkt.6045 said:just because core engi is bad and scrapper mediocre doesn't mean nades were fine on those specs. obviously core engi with rifle sucked when i played it and the defense was horrible, but i could still basically oneshot people with a 10k nade barrage.. (this was before nerfs)

Except, by definition, if the specs arent broken with it, it is fine on them. I would argue Spellbreakers CC is kinda ludicrous compared to other classes. But Spellbreaker isnt broken with them, so theyre fine.

nades were problematic no matter which spec ran it. just because engi sucks doesn't mean you don't have to nerf unhealthy skills. sooner or later nade kit would have been nerfed anyway.

They werent. And no, it wouldn't have. Remember, the kit wasnt even so much as played before the february patch. Or even after, for a while. Nerf Holo, and Grenade Kit would've been left untouched until powerdip reached low enough for core engineer to be an issue. But then again, powerdip is the biggest issue the game is facing anyway, so.

@Yasai.3549 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Yasai.3549 said:Even with Grenade nerfs, Holo still vastly outperforms a good majority of builds.How about Arenanet tackles the actual problem, which is Holosmith,

not Core Engineer,

instead?After all, the over-performance comes out of that one traitline.