Why use Empower Allies on Raid PvE Benchmarks when most raid comps don't use Empower Allies? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Why use Empower Allies on Raid PvE Benchmarks when most raid comps don't use Empower Allies?

Why do most power benchmarks use Empower Allies, if most raid comps no longer have the warrior take Empower Allies?

Best Answers

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Accepted Answer

    @reapex.8546 said:
    Why do most power benchmarks use Empower Allies, if most raid comps no longer have the warrior take Empower Allies?

    Because benchmarks are done with it in the past and it would be anoying to do all the benches again just because of this.
    Also no matter which golem settings ppl use, as long as all benches are done with same settings it works if you wanna compare how close you can reach the benchmark or compare dmg difference between 2 builds.
    Just like you can train your rotation with all buffs and boons as long as you compare it to benhmark that is done with all buffs and boons.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2021 Accepted Answer

    @Wolfb.7025 said:

    @Janitsu.6284 said:

    @Wolfb.7025 said:
    SC uses the most (unrealistic, for mere mortals like me) optimal settings, and they focus on basically showing the top potential on every class on the game.

    Empower Allies is still a semi viable meta build, the warrior loses some dps but if the other 3-2 dps in your sub can pull out their benchmark numbers, its gonna end in an increased squad dps (sure, this never happens in non-static experienced squad anyways).

    Snowcrows does use empower allies in their group benchmarks on power bosses. They put their BS in a sepparate sub so the buff spreads through everyone on the squad.

    This is false for benchmarks. The reason for Empower Allies is simply that they used it for a long time and it would've been a lot of work to do all of the pre-existing benchmarks for the sake of changed build. Nowadays Empower Allies is used in a lot of the record runs, but the build still doesn't have it by default simply because it's not really worth it. SC uses realistic buffs and LN uses most buffs for the ease of benchmarking.

    SC boss benchmarks use a warrior with empower allies. You can see it on the logs on their videos. If EA wasn't relevant for raid clears they wouldn't care about updating benchmarks with new numbers without that boon.

    Its a relevant boon for them and should be for every tryhard group that wants the clear record. They will always bring EA for their power clears.

    Edit: I'm not snowcrows, everything i'm saying is just from perception and what I think makes the most sense in my own mind. I really dobut they wouldn't re-benchmark everything just because "its too much", they're a group of possibly more than 10 people that dedicates to farm logs to present to a whole mmorpg community what a class is able to do. And there are less than 18 dps builds listed in there with their corresponding data.

    We won't know for certain the true reason of why they keep EA, but until they say anything about it, or someone ask them directly, i'm gonna keep believing its because EA BS is meta for them.

    From SC discord:

    "is empower allies still viable realistic buff? cause i feel like no one is playing tactics anymore maybe except when core bs is played. and AP is kinda used more am i right?"

    ""realistic buffs" are used simply as a way to help standardize the process and allow us to compare things more reliably"

    Also what you mean we dont know the true reason? Their EA usage is also listed in their discord.

    Harry: "VG, Gors, Sloth, KC, Mo, Samarog, Deimos, CA, Qadim and Adina"

    AP is also a "realistic buff" but its not used in any bencmark, even tho its used in their compositions btw.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

Answers

  • reapex.8546reapex.8546 Member ✭✭✭

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @reapex.8546 said:
    Why do most power benchmarks use Empower Allies, if most raid comps no longer have the warrior take Empower Allies?

    Because benchmarks are done with it in the past and it would be anoying to do all the benches again just because of this.
    Also no matter which golem settings ppl use, as long as all benches are done with same settings it works if you wanna compare how close you can reach the benchmark or compare dmg difference between 2 builds.
    Just like you can train your rotation with all buffs and boons as long as you compare it to benhmark that is done with all buffs and boons.

    Normally, when a balance update happens build benchmarks are redone despite it being annoying. Imo, that's a good time to do benchmarks without EA. However, if people want to continue to do benchmarks with EA (for years) I understand. It's their choice, thank you for the response.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @reapex.8546 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @reapex.8546 said:
    Why do most power benchmarks use Empower Allies, if most raid comps no longer have the warrior take Empower Allies?

    Because benchmarks are done with it in the past and it would be anoying to do all the benches again just because of this.
    Also no matter which golem settings ppl use, as long as all benches are done with same settings it works if you wanna compare how close you can reach the benchmark or compare dmg difference between 2 builds.
    Just like you can train your rotation with all buffs and boons as long as you compare it to benhmark that is done with all buffs and boons.

    Normally, when a balance update happens build benchmarks are redone despite it being annoying. Imo, that's a good time to do benchmarks without EA. However, if people want to continue to do benchmarks with EA (for years) I understand. It's their choice, thank you for the response.

    Yes and no, only builds that actually got changed gets a new benchmark. I guess its just too much effort for little profit to benchmark stuff like condi scourge again only because it lost 100 power but gained AP i change.

    But once we get a new big balance patch, lets say a new expansion im pretty sure that it is enough for SC to change benchmark thingies aswell, Considering that they most likely need to add new professions specific buffs anyways, add new elite specs and what not.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • reapex.8546reapex.8546 Member ✭✭✭

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @reapex.8546 said:

    @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @reapex.8546 said:
    Why do most power benchmarks use Empower Allies, if most raid comps no longer have the warrior take Empower Allies?

    Because benchmarks are done with it in the past and it would be anoying to do all the benches again just because of this.
    Also no matter which golem settings ppl use, as long as all benches are done with same settings it works if you wanna compare how close you can reach the benchmark or compare dmg difference between 2 builds.
    Just like you can train your rotation with all buffs and boons as long as you compare it to benhmark that is done with all buffs and boons.

    Normally, when a balance update happens build benchmarks are redone despite it being annoying. Imo, that's a good time to do benchmarks without EA. However, if people want to continue to do benchmarks with EA (for years) I understand. It's their choice, thank you for the response.

    But once we get a new big balance patch, lets say a new expansion im pretty sure that it is enough for SC to change benchmark thingies aswell, Considering that they most likely need to add new professions specific buffs anyways, add new elite specs and what not.

    Hope so, that would be awesome. Thanks for the response :D

  • Wolfb.7025Wolfb.7025 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 16, 2020

    SC uses the most (unrealistic, for mere mortals like me) optimal settings, and they focus on basically showing the top potential on every class on the game.

    Empower Allies is still a semi viable meta build, the warrior loses some dps but if the other 3-2 dps in your sub can pull out their benchmark numbers, its gonna end in an increased squad dps (sure, this never happens in non-static experienced squad anyways).

    Snowcrows does use empower allies in their group benchmarks on power bosses. They put their BS in a sepparate sub so the buff spreads through everyone on the squad.

    Years just pass like trains
    I wave but they don't sloow dooown~ don't slow doown~♪

  • @Wolfb.7025 said:
    SC uses the most (unrealistic, for mere mortals like me) optimal settings, and they focus on basically showing the top potential on every class on the game.

    Empower Allies is still a semi viable meta build, the warrior loses some dps but if the other 3-2 dps in your sub can pull out their benchmark numbers, its gonna end in an increased squad dps (sure, this never happens in non-static experienced squad anyways).

    Snowcrows does use empower allies in their group benchmarks on power bosses. They put their BS in a sepparate sub so the buff spreads through everyone on the squad.

    This is false for benchmarks. The reason for Empower Allies is simply that they used it for a long time and it would've been a lot of work to do all of the pre-existing benchmarks for the sake of changed build. Nowadays Empower Allies is used in a lot of the record runs, but the build still doesn't have it by default simply because it's not really worth it. SC uses realistic buffs and LN uses most buffs for the ease of benchmarking.

    minecrafter

  • Wolfb.7025Wolfb.7025 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 7, 2021

    @Janitsu.6284 said:

    @Wolfb.7025 said:
    SC uses the most (unrealistic, for mere mortals like me) optimal settings, and they focus on basically showing the top potential on every class on the game.

    Empower Allies is still a semi viable meta build, the warrior loses some dps but if the other 3-2 dps in your sub can pull out their benchmark numbers, its gonna end in an increased squad dps (sure, this never happens in non-static experienced squad anyways).

    Snowcrows does use empower allies in their group benchmarks on power bosses. They put their BS in a sepparate sub so the buff spreads through everyone on the squad.

    This is false for benchmarks. The reason for Empower Allies is simply that they used it for a long time and it would've been a lot of work to do all of the pre-existing benchmarks for the sake of changed build. Nowadays Empower Allies is used in a lot of the record runs, but the build still doesn't have it by default simply because it's not really worth it. SC uses realistic buffs and LN uses most buffs for the ease of benchmarking.

    SC boss benchmarks use a warrior with empower allies. You can see it on the logs on their videos. If EA wasn't relevant for raid clears they wouldn't care about updating benchmarks with new numbers without that boon.

    Its a relevant boon for them and should be for every tryhard group that wants the clear record. They will always bring EA for their power clears.

    Edit: I'm not snowcrows, everything i'm saying is just from perception and what I think makes the most sense in my own mind. I really dobut they wouldn't re-benchmark everything just because "its too much", they're a group of possibly more than 10 people that dedicates to farm logs to present to a whole mmorpg community what a class is able to do. And there are less than 18 dps builds listed in there with their corresponding data.

    We won't know for certain the true reason of why they keep EA, but until they say anything about it, or someone ask them directly, i'm gonna keep believing its because EA BS is meta for them.

    Years just pass like trains
    I wave but they don't sloow dooown~ don't slow doown~♪

  • @Wolfb.7025 said:

    @Janitsu.6284 said:

    @Wolfb.7025 said:
    SC uses the most (unrealistic, for mere mortals like me) optimal settings, and they focus on basically showing the top potential on every class on the game.

    Empower Allies is still a semi viable meta build, the warrior loses some dps but if the other 3-2 dps in your sub can pull out their benchmark numbers, its gonna end in an increased squad dps (sure, this never happens in non-static experienced squad anyways).

    Snowcrows does use empower allies in their group benchmarks on power bosses. They put their BS in a sepparate sub so the buff spreads through everyone on the squad.

    This is false for benchmarks. The reason for Empower Allies is simply that they used it for a long time and it would've been a lot of work to do all of the pre-existing benchmarks for the sake of changed build. Nowadays Empower Allies is used in a lot of the record runs, but the build still doesn't have it by default simply because it's not really worth it. SC uses realistic buffs and LN uses most buffs for the ease of benchmarking.

    SC boss benchmarks use a warrior with empower allies. You can see it on the logs on their videos.

    Quite literally what I said.

    minecrafter

  • reapex.8546reapex.8546 Member ✭✭✭

    Thank you for the information everyone.