Ranger skills — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Professions

Ranger skills

It's beautiful, a ranger rapid fire kill a FB minstrel, press a key, how much skill, how much balance THANKS ARENANET
Healthy WvW, fun ....

Comments

  • @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Dodge, block, invuln, reflect, blind, protection, weakness? It might be harsh to say but the tools to answer such skill are all at hand. A "support" being killed by a "glass canon" is supposed to be the natural outcome. The "glass canon" being supposed to be countered by the "tank".

    Did you understand?
    Not requerid skill for kill,
    "glass canon"? hahahahaha nice joke

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 14, 2020

    @m k m.2014 said:
    It's beautiful, a ranger rapid fire kill a FB minstrel, press a key, how much skill, how much balance THANKS ARENANET
    Healthy WvW, fun ....

    And all the condi spam everywhere is skillful as well? Games literally a skill less spam fest, been that way for a while. Conquest nodes now resemble zerg fights in wvw, circles spammed ontop of each other while everyone spames all their condis off CD... skillful. Games pvp is not competitive in the slightest and is not meant to be these days, just play it for fun man and enjoy out of it what u can and it makes the devs horrible balance ability effect ur games less lol.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @m k m.2014 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Dodge, block, invuln, reflect, blind, protection, weakness? It might be harsh to say but the tools to answer such skill are all at hand. A "support" being killed by a "glass canon" is supposed to be the natural outcome. The "glass canon" being supposed to be countered by the "tank".

    Did you understand?
    Not requerid skill for kill,
    "glass canon"? hahahahaha nice joke

    The first thing that you should do when you're killed like that is wonder what you've done wrong not complain how you've been downed. If, you're a minstrel FB, you got at least 3k armor and 16k health. No ranger can down you with a single rapid fire unless he is a glass canon with such stats. If you add protection your effective armor shot up to 4k. In this light, even if the ranger is a glass canon, the most likely scenario is that the fight involved a lot more than "rapid fire".

    Nobody need skill to down someone that don't defend himself properly.

  • A FB Minstrel pushing toughness and vitality via traits can get something like 4048 armor and 26813 HP. A full glass cannon Soulbeast with OWP+Rapid Fire can hit that for 43,050 damage not taking into account protection or aegis on the part of the FB. No, I did not include Sic'em in the damage numbers either.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @m k m.2014 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Dodge, block, invuln, reflect, blind, protection, weakness? It might be harsh to say but the tools to answer such skill are all at hand. A "support" being killed by a "glass canon" is supposed to be the natural outcome. The "glass canon" being supposed to be countered by the "tank".

    Did you understand?
    Not requerid skill for kill,
    "glass canon"? hahahahaha nice joke

    You seem surprised ... you shouldn't be. It's also no skill to run around in a FB minstrel and assume you can't be killed.

    If you're on a highway and roadrunner goes "beep beep"
    Just step aside or you might end up in a heap

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    FB minstrel dies to anything that can rapid-stack Vuln.

    Vuln stacking rips apart any build, no matter how much Toughness yu built up.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • The Boz.2038The Boz.2038 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2020

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    A FB Minstrel pushing toughness and vitality via traits can get something like 4048 armor and 26813 HP. A full glass cannon Soulbeast with OWP+Rapid Fire can hit that for 43,050 damage not taking into account protection or aegis on the part of the FB. No, I did not include Sic'em in the damage numbers either.

    Could you expand on this? I get something like 25k damage vs armor 2600 by my calculations, at 100% crit chance and 260% crit damage. Vulnerability and Force help a tiny bit, but target's Armor is significantly higher than 2600...

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2020

    @The Boz.2038 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    A FB Minstrel pushing toughness and vitality via traits can get something like 4048 armor and 26813 HP. A full glass cannon Soulbeast with OWP+Rapid Fire can hit that for 43,050 damage not taking into account protection or aegis on the part of the FB. No, I did not include Sic'em in the damage numbers either.

    Could you expand on this? I get something like 25k damage vs armor 2600 by my calculations, at 100% crit chance and 260% crit damage. Vulnerability and Force help a tiny bit, but target's Armor is significantly higher than 2600...

    Look at your various modifiers available.

    Edit:
    http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAMFlZw2YZsOmJO0W6v8BUA-zVIYRUxfINJEqQB0yEwWHkwYD8acwMA-w

    Lead with OWP, PBS, then RF.

    Total crit damage is 287% due to sigil. After all the +5%, +7%, +10%, and +15% modifiers your % increased damage on a crit is 544%. Assuming all OWP procs crit, and there will be 10 of them in the combo at least (11 really but 10 is easier math) that is 826105.44=44,934 damage just from OWP on the 'heavy' armor value. No Sic'em needed.

    But as I said that is top end potential. Damage values are roughly the same with Sic'em and 0 might. Not much personal survivability, but when you are dropping someone from 1200-1500 away before they can react why would you need it.

    For the armor value in question the damage is about half the above, so OWP alone would almost drop such a target.

    Really on Soulbeast there are some broken things still:
    Sic'em modifier still too high. Would really be best if it was the next 5 attacks only.
    OWP interval is too short.
    Stats on merged forms too high still.
    Attack of opportunity modifier is too high as well.

    When you get above 300% damage modifiers ( including crit damage) the game becomes rocket tag on certain classes that other classes can't compete fairly against.

    This is why the Feb patch was so wrong. It didn't address the real problem.

  • The Boz.2038The Boz.2038 Member ✭✭✭

    If you are talking about Opening or Opportunity, those only apply to one hit...

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2020

    @The Boz.2038 said:
    If you are talking about Opening or Opportunity, those only apply to one hit...

    Those were general statements. Opening Strike still puts 5 vuln on the target for increased damage on the whole spike and are honestly not even needed.

    Ridiculous numbers on Soulbeast are easier to get than on other classes outside of burn DH. Not saying there isn't a place for it, but we should be honest in regards to the top end potential and the relative ease some classes can get said potential.

  • The Boz.2038The Boz.2038 Member ✭✭✭

    Oh wow. That is nasty.

  • It is. There is a reason I stopped playing my Soulbeast. Too fcking easy. Same with my burn DH. Too fcking easy. I almost feel guilty playing my Reaper in this meta. Almost.

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2020

    Can you define how you rate easy for me please? As in easy to use, effective in a lot situation, or just getting one thing perfectly or anything else?
    Because avoiding a lot of drawbacks and situations leading to a disadvantage seems like cherry picking for me.

  • @aymnad.9023 said:

    Can you define easy for me please? Because avoiding a lot of drawbacks and situations leading to a disadvantage seems like cherry picking for me.

    If I can spike someone from 1500 away with enough damage to knock them off of Warclaw and straight into downstate with an elite and a single weapon skill that is easy. There is sufficient damage in the spike that you can still take condi cleanse and stun breaks. Or you can go full yolo since a fair number of players don't watch their 6 close enough and have enough shots left in Rapid Fire to tab to the next target and down a second person if need be.

    Yes, they can dodge part of the spike. They'll still get hit by part of it, and if they are not full tank they will die anyway. Blocks or projectile destruction? I posted a link with unblockable attacks in it. Anything else is negated by superior range advantage and winning initiative.

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2020

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @aymnad.9023 said:

    Can you define easy for me please? Because avoiding a lot of drawbacks and situations leading to a disadvantage seems like cherry picking for me.

    If I can spike someone from 1500 away with enough damage to knock them off of Warclaw and straight into downstate with an elite and a single weapon skill that is easy. There is sufficient damage in the spike that you can still take condi cleanse and stun breaks. Or you can go full yolo since a fair number of players don't watch their 6 close enough and have enough shots left in Rapid Fire to tab to the next target and down a second person if need be.

    Yes, they can dodge part of the spike. They'll still get hit by part of it, and if they are not full tank they will die anyway. Blocks or projectile destruction? I posted a link with unblockable attacks in it. Anything else is negated by superior range advantage and winning initiative.

    I saw your build. But I actually think that there are a lot of drawbacks. Poor condition cleanse (even with bear stance), poor stunbreak, poor survivability overall. What if the burst is not available? What if someone ports / invulns / dodge anyway? You do one thing great, but that's it.
    If getting a os in the back and doing nothing after is what you are looking for then yes the build is easy.

  • @aymnad.9023 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @aymnad.9023 said:

    Can you define easy for me please? Because avoiding a lot of drawbacks and situations leading to a disadvantage seems like cherry picking for me.

    If I can spike someone from 1500 away with enough damage to knock them off of Warclaw and straight into downstate with an elite and a single weapon skill that is easy. There is sufficient damage in the spike that you can still take condi cleanse and stun breaks. Or you can go full yolo since a fair number of players don't watch their 6 close enough and have enough shots left in Rapid Fire to tab to the next target and down a second person if need be.

    Yes, they can dodge part of the spike. They'll still get hit by part of it, and if they are not full tank they will die anyway. Blocks or projectile destruction? I posted a link with unblockable attacks in it. Anything else is negated by superior range advantage and winning initiative.

    I saw your build. But I actually think that there are a lot of drawbacks. Poor condition cleanse (even with bear stance), poor stunbreak, poor survivability overall. What if the burst is not available? What if someone ports / invulns / dodge anyway? You do one thing great, but that's it.

    Thats the thing. If you get a bead on the target from 1500 away you preemptively negate the condis and stuns. Again, if they dodge they wont dodge the full spike and the follow up AA shots will still proc OWP if they double tap their dodge key. RF is 10s untraited, which is not terribly long given that you can also stealth and swoop away to maintain range and will still tops out at 26k on such a build enough to down most players. There are still other skills on the bar and a second weapon set to fall back on. That is how low effort the spike is, 2-3 skills tops in most cases, 4 if you suspect built in blocks, 5 if you want them to die before reaction times kick in if you bring Sic'Em, but most of the time, its just OWP+Rapid Fire.

    One trick ponies are just that one tricks. But one trick ponies are still fun for people to play, and this is one of the safer ones to play.

    Besides this was all in reply to a minstrel FB wondering how a Soulbeast downed him so quickly. I posted a build that was not even 100% optimized for damage that hits for over 60k in a spike. There is plenty of room to lower the damage for more survivability, which speaks even further to the point that Soulbeast doesn't even need to go full DPS to get meme level damage spikes.

    If getting a os in the back and doing nothing after is what you are looking for then yes I the build is easy.

    Can't do anything when they are already dead, which is why people meme out on Soulbeast so often. Its the safest one to meme on.

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Thats the thing. If you get a bead on the target from 1500 away you preemptively negate the condis and stuns. Again, if they dodge they wont dodge the full spike and the follow up AA shots will still proc OWP if they double tap their dodge key. RF is 10s untraited, which is not terribly long given that you can also stealth and swoop away to maintain range and will still tops out at 26k on such a build enough to down most players. There are still other skills on the bar and a second weapon set to fall back on. That is how low effort the spike is, 2-3 skills tops in most cases, 4 if you suspect built in blocks, 5 if you want them to die before reaction times kick in if you bring Sic'Em, but most of the time, its just OWP+Rapid Fire.

    That’s a valid point, but I still somewhat disagree with it. You can find tools on multiple professions / builds to avoid it. Will most of players react to it fast enough? No. But this is going for “I need to be the first one to hit, I better not miss, I better have my cds”. There are so many situations were the conditions needed for the burst are not met (or you just die after).

    One trick ponies are just that one tricks. But one trick ponies are still fun for people to play, and this is one of the safer ones to play.

    A low effort spike tied to long cds that leaves you pretty weak. As soon as your burst is gone or missed or you are the target, or there just are more people then your strength drops a lot Again this is why I think “too easy” needs to be detailed.

    Besides this was all in reply to a minstrel FB wondering how a Soulbeast downed him so quickly. I posted a build that was not even 100% optimized for damage that hits for over 60k in a spike. There is plenty of room to lower the damage for more survivability, which speaks even further to the point that Soulbeast doesn't even need to go full DPS to get meme level damage spikes.

    If you do you then become vulnerable to other things like blocks / reflects or just loose dps (which you will definitely feel) because those 3 specializations are used to get increased damage. There is always a drawback.

    Can't do anything when they are already dead, which is why people meme out on Soulbeast so often. Its the safest one to meme on.

    It probably is a strong contestant. But outside of sniping someone alone (or maybe 2 weak players) you are quite limited.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2020

    @aymnad.9023 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Thats the thing. If you get a bead on the target from 1500 away you preemptively negate the condis and stuns. Again, if they dodge they wont dodge the full spike and the follow up AA shots will still proc OWP if they double tap their dodge key. RF is 10s untraited, which is not terribly long given that you can also stealth and swoop away to maintain range and will still tops out at 26k on such a build enough to down most players. There are still other skills on the bar and a second weapon set to fall back on. That is how low effort the spike is, 2-3 skills tops in most cases, 4 if you suspect built in blocks, 5 if you want them to die before reaction times kick in if you bring Sic'Em, but most of the time, its just OWP+Rapid Fire.

    That’s a valid point, but I still somewhat disagree with it. You can find tools on multiple professions / builds to avoid it. Will most of players react to it fast enough? No. But this is going for “I need to be the first one to hit, I better not miss, I better have my cds”. There are so many situations were the conditions needed for the burst are not met (or you just die after).

    It's a give and take thing. LB Ranger has the ability to engage from further away and resolve combat while not ever being in danger of a reprisal. As I said though RF itself can down someone, if not then OWP and AA can hit together for 10k, that is still strong enough to end a fight, or is 10k too low to count as a spike? OWP+RF is powerful but together are only needed for tank busting.

    One trick ponies are just that one tricks. But one trick ponies are still fun for people to play, and this is one of the safer ones to play.

    A low effort spike tied to long cds that leaves you pretty weak. As soon as your burst is gone or missed or you are the target, or there just are more people then your strength drops a lot Again this is why I think “too easy” needs to be detailed.

    Linked build still can get 4-5k AA hits, not like it's damage drops off a cliff relative to HP totals.

    Besides this was all in reply to a minstrel FB wondering how a Soulbeast downed him so quickly. I posted a build that was not even 100% optimized for damage that hits for over 60k in a spike. There is plenty of room to lower the damage for more survivability, which speaks even further to the point that Soulbeast doesn't even need to go full DPS to get meme level damage spikes.

    If you do you then become vulnerable to other things like blocks / reflects or just loose dps (which you will definitely feel) because those 3 specializations are used to get increased damage. There is always a drawback.

    You could drop either of the two core traitlines and not be impacted greatly in dps loss. LB should carry unblockables anyway to secure spiked on the relevant targets. It's the other two utility skills that are truly open slots for either more dps or more survivability.

    Can't do anything when they are already dead, which is why people meme out on Soulbeast so often. Its the safest one to meme on.

    It probably is a strong contestant. But outside of sniping someone alone (or maybe 2 weak players) you are quite limited.

    And yet outside of zerg fights that is the majority of what you'll encounter. Solo roamers and small groups.

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2020

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @aymnad.9023 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Thats the thing. If you get a bead on the target from 1500 away you preemptively negate the condis and stuns. Again, if they dodge they wont dodge the full spike and the follow up AA shots will still proc OWP if they double tap their dodge key. RF is 10s untraited, which is not terribly long given that you can also stealth and swoop away to maintain range and will still tops out at 26k on such a build enough to down most players. There are still other skills on the bar and a second weapon set to fall back on. That is how low effort the spike is, 2-3 skills tops in most cases, 4 if you suspect built in blocks, 5 if you want them to die before reaction times kick in if you bring Sic'Em, but most of the time, its just OWP+Rapid Fire.

    That’s a valid point, but I still somewhat disagree with it. You can find tools on multiple professions / builds to avoid it. Will most of players react to it fast enough? No. But this is going for “I need to be the first one to hit, I better not miss, I better have my cds”. There are so many situations were the conditions needed for the burst are not met (or you just die after).

    It's a give and take thing. LB Ranger has the ability to engage from further away and resolve combat while not ever being in danger of a reprisal. As I said though RF itself can down someone, if not then OWP and AA can hit together for 10k, that is still strong enough to end a fight, or is 10k too low to count as a spike? OWP+RF is powerful but together are only needed for tank busting.

    One trick ponies are just that one tricks. But one trick ponies are still fun for people to play, and this is one of the safer ones to play.

    A low effort spike tied to long cds that leaves you pretty weak. As soon as your burst is gone or missed or you are the target, or there just are more people then your strength drops a lot Again this is why I think “too easy” needs to be detailed.

    Linked build still can get 4-5k AA hits, not like it's damage drops off a cliff relative to HP totals.

    Besides this was all in reply to a minstrel FB wondering how a Soulbeast downed him so quickly. I posted a build that was not even 100% optimized for damage that hits for over 60k in a spike. There is plenty of room to lower the damage for more survivability, which speaks even further to the point that Soulbeast doesn't even need to go full DPS to get meme level damage spikes.

    If you do you then become vulnerable to other things like blocks / reflects or just loose dps (which you will definitely feel) because those 3 specializations are used to get increased damage. There is always a drawback.

    You could drop either of the two core traitlines and not be impacted greatly in dps loss. LB should carry unblockables anyway to secure spiked on the relevant targets. It's the other two utility skills that are truly open slots for either more dps or more survivability.

    Can't do anything when they are already dead, which is why people meme out on Soulbeast so often. Its the safest one to meme on.

    It probably is a strong contestant. But outside of sniping someone alone (or maybe 2 weak players) you are quite limited.

    And yet outside of zerg fights that is the majority of what you'll encounter. Solo roamers and small groups.

    You probably based yourself on the damage formula on something with 0 defense because, sure “on paper” that’s what you get. I tried the build tonight for 1h30 and the highest I got was probably more around 8,5k. (~4.6auto, ~3.6 wolf)

    I did erased people almost instantly. I definitely broke many people. One of my first target was a reaper who got deleted in seconds. The build is very boring to play and probably unfun to encounter. Almost disgusting.

    But literally everything I said stands. People did invuln + blinked away, supports did stand the damage, stunbreak and dodges happened (even stealth without sic'em). Anytime I would take a single hit before starting the burst I would loose my modifiers and go down a few seconds later, in zergs the damage was nullified after a few seconds or immediately (if not body blocked), anything coming when my skills were on cd was pretty bad for me.

    As far as I am concerned that’s still not a build I would rank as good (I prefer a more balanced version) but I can see why people would hate it. I do not play WvW that often because I feel like I lose my mind in zergs and get frustrated in solo when dying to os builds.

    Edit : Last time I dropped some damage for survivability I definitely felt a difference, maybe I will try again an other day. Loosing stats, modifiers or unblockable is 100% going to affect your dps and your playstyle because you will have to go for gs.

  • @aymnad.9023 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @aymnad.9023 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Thats the thing. If you get a bead on the target from 1500 away you preemptively negate the condis and stuns. Again, if they dodge they wont dodge the full spike and the follow up AA shots will still proc OWP if they double tap their dodge key. RF is 10s untraited, which is not terribly long given that you can also stealth and swoop away to maintain range and will still tops out at 26k on such a build enough to down most players. There are still other skills on the bar and a second weapon set to fall back on. That is how low effort the spike is, 2-3 skills tops in most cases, 4 if you suspect built in blocks, 5 if you want them to die before reaction times kick in if you bring Sic'Em, but most of the time, its just OWP+Rapid Fire.

    That’s a valid point, but I still somewhat disagree with it. You can find tools on multiple professions / builds to avoid it. Will most of players react to it fast enough? No. But this is going for “I need to be the first one to hit, I better not miss, I better have my cds”. There are so many situations were the conditions needed for the burst are not met (or you just die after).

    It's a give and take thing. LB Ranger has the ability to engage from further away and resolve combat while not ever being in danger of a reprisal. As I said though RF itself can down someone, if not then OWP and AA can hit together for 10k, that is still strong enough to end a fight, or is 10k too low to count as a spike? OWP+RF is powerful but together are only needed for tank busting.

    One trick ponies are just that one tricks. But one trick ponies are still fun for people to play, and this is one of the safer ones to play.

    A low effort spike tied to long cds that leaves you pretty weak. As soon as your burst is gone or missed or you are the target, or there just are more people then your strength drops a lot Again this is why I think “too easy” needs to be detailed.

    Linked build still can get 4-5k AA hits, not like it's damage drops off a cliff relative to HP totals.

    Besides this was all in reply to a minstrel FB wondering how a Soulbeast downed him so quickly. I posted a build that was not even 100% optimized for damage that hits for over 60k in a spike. There is plenty of room to lower the damage for more survivability, which speaks even further to the point that Soulbeast doesn't even need to go full DPS to get meme level damage spikes.

    If you do you then become vulnerable to other things like blocks / reflects or just loose dps (which you will definitely feel) because those 3 specializations are used to get increased damage. There is always a drawback.

    You could drop either of the two core traitlines and not be impacted greatly in dps loss. LB should carry unblockables anyway to secure spiked on the relevant targets. It's the other two utility skills that are truly open slots for either more dps or more survivability.

    Can't do anything when they are already dead, which is why people meme out on Soulbeast so often. Its the safest one to meme on.

    It probably is a strong contestant. But outside of sniping someone alone (or maybe 2 weak players) you are quite limited.

    And yet outside of zerg fights that is the majority of what you'll encounter. Solo roamers and small groups.

    You probably based yourself on the damage formula on something with 0 defense because, sure “on paper” that’s what you get. I tried the build tonight for 1h30 and the highest I got was probably more around 8,5k. (~4.6auto, ~3.6 wolf)

    Based on 2681 defense, which is more than most players have. I did state that it was top end potential, which is not what you should expect on every encounter. I was upfront about that, but are proving my point that it isn't even needed.

    I did erased people almost instantly. I definitely broke many people. One of my first target was a reaper who got deleted in seconds. The build is very boring to play and probably unfun to encounter. Almost disgusting.

    Again, you are proving my point, it deletes people.

    But literally everything I said stands. People did invuln + blinked away, supports did stand the damage, stunbreak and dodges happened (even stealth without sic'em). Anytime I would take a single hit before starting the burst I would loose my modifiers and go down a few seconds later, in zergs the damage was nullified after a few seconds or immediately (if not body blocked), anything coming when my skills were on cd was pretty bad for me.

    Then that's on you for not using GS for the block plus double swoop to reset the burst. You'll always encounter someone better than you though.

    As far as I am concerned that’s still not a build I would rank as good (I prefer a more balanced version) but I can see why people would hate it. I do not play WvW that often because I feel like I lose my mind in zergs and get frustrated in solo when dying to os builds.

    That's fine. It isn't a balanced setup at all, and wasn't meant to be. It was meant as an example of how Soulbeast on its top end can delete anything even on a minstrel set.

    Edit : Last time I dropped some damage for survivability I definitely felt a difference, maybe I will try again an other day. Loosing stats, modifiers or unblockable is 100% going to affect your dps and your playstyle because you will have to go for gs.

    Of course it will. But your also need to play more like a stalker on that build to ensure you get the jump on people and ensure success.

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2020

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @aymnad.9023 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @aymnad.9023 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Thats the thing. If you get a bead on the target from 1500 away you preemptively negate the condis and stuns. Again, if they dodge they wont dodge the full spike and the follow up AA shots will still proc OWP if they double tap their dodge key. RF is 10s untraited, which is not terribly long given that you can also stealth and swoop away to maintain range and will still tops out at 26k on such a build enough to down most players. There are still other skills on the bar and a second weapon set to fall back on. That is how low effort the spike is, 2-3 skills tops in most cases, 4 if you suspect built in blocks, 5 if you want them to die before reaction times kick in if you bring Sic'Em, but most of the time, its just OWP+Rapid Fire.

    That’s a valid point, but I still somewhat disagree with it. You can find tools on multiple professions / builds to avoid it. Will most of players react to it fast enough? No. But this is going for “I need to be the first one to hit, I better not miss, I better have my cds”. There are so many situations were the conditions needed for the burst are not met (or you just die after).

    It's a give and take thing. LB Ranger has the ability to engage from further away and resolve combat while not ever being in danger of a reprisal. As I said though RF itself can down someone, if not then OWP and AA can hit together for 10k, that is still strong enough to end a fight, or is 10k too low to count as a spike? OWP+RF is powerful but together are only needed for tank busting.

    One trick ponies are just that one tricks. But one trick ponies are still fun for people to play, and this is one of the safer ones to play.

    A low effort spike tied to long cds that leaves you pretty weak. As soon as your burst is gone or missed or you are the target, or there just are more people then your strength drops a lot Again this is why I think “too easy” needs to be detailed.

    Linked build still can get 4-5k AA hits, not like it's damage drops off a cliff relative to HP totals.

    Besides this was all in reply to a minstrel FB wondering how a Soulbeast downed him so quickly. I posted a build that was not even 100% optimized for damage that hits for over 60k in a spike. There is plenty of room to lower the damage for more survivability, which speaks even further to the point that Soulbeast doesn't even need to go full DPS to get meme level damage spikes.

    If you do you then become vulnerable to other things like blocks / reflects or just loose dps (which you will definitely feel) because those 3 specializations are used to get increased damage. There is always a drawback.

    You could drop either of the two core traitlines and not be impacted greatly in dps loss. LB should carry unblockables anyway to secure spiked on the relevant targets. It's the other two utility skills that are truly open slots for either more dps or more survivability.

    Can't do anything when they are already dead, which is why people meme out on Soulbeast so often. Its the safest one to meme on.

    It probably is a strong contestant. But outside of sniping someone alone (or maybe 2 weak players) you are quite limited.

    And yet outside of zerg fights that is the majority of what you'll encounter. Solo roamers and small groups.

    You probably based yourself on the damage formula on something with 0 defense because, sure “on paper” that’s what you get. I tried the build tonight for 1h30 and the highest I got was probably more around 8,5k. (~4.6auto, ~3.6 wolf)

    Based on 2681 defense, which is more than most players have. I did state that it was top end potential, which is not what you should expect on every encounter. I was upfront about that, but are proving my point that it isn't even needed.

    I did erased people almost instantly. I definitely broke many people. One of my first target was a reaper who got deleted in seconds. The build is very boring to play and probably unfun to encounter. Almost disgusting.

    Again, you are proving my point, it deletes people.

    Actually I cannot think of a single line where I said the opposite. I literally said multiple times that yes you will but if conditions are not met you fail, run and do nothing while waiting for cds time or die. So once again, all those stand but I did underestimate how unfun it can be in WvW when you can have more downtime (between the map size, having 2-3 more players with you, the time of the day).

    But literally everything I said stands. People did invuln + blinked away, supports did stand the damage, stunbreak and dodges happened (even stealth without sic'em). Anytime I would take a single hit before starting the burst I would loose my modifiers and go down a few seconds later, in zergs the damage was nullified after a few seconds or immediately (if not body blocked), anything coming when my skills were on cd was pretty bad for me.

    Then that's on you for not using GS for the block plus double swoop to reset the burst. You'll always encounter someone better than you though.

    As far as I am concerned that’s still not a build I would rank as good (I prefer a more balanced version) but I can see why people would hate it. I do not play WvW that often because I feel like I lose my mind in zergs and get frustrated in solo when dying to os builds.

    That's fine. It isn't a balanced setup at all, and wasn't meant to be. It was meant as an example of how Soulbeast on its top end can delete anything even on a minstrel set.

    Edit : Last time I dropped some damage for survivability I definitely felt a difference, maybe I will try again an other day. Loosing stats, modifiers or unblockable is 100% going to affect your dps and your playstyle because you will have to go for gs.

    Of course it will. But your also need to play more like a stalker on that build to ensure you get the jump on people and ensure success.

    Thanks for the tips. However I feel like I have way more hours playing sicem in sPvP than you seem to think :)

  • Abyssisis.3971Abyssisis.3971 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 19, 2020

    Geeeze would love to have my rapidfire and owp hit for that much, but can only get 5 procs of owp per rapid fire :(

  • @aymnad.9023 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @aymnad.9023 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @aymnad.9023 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Thats the thing. If you get a bead on the target from 1500 away you preemptively negate the condis and stuns. Again, if they dodge they wont dodge the full spike and the follow up AA shots will still proc OWP if they double tap their dodge key. RF is 10s untraited, which is not terribly long given that you can also stealth and swoop away to maintain range and will still tops out at 26k on such a build enough to down most players. There are still other skills on the bar and a second weapon set to fall back on. That is how low effort the spike is, 2-3 skills tops in most cases, 4 if you suspect built in blocks, 5 if you want them to die before reaction times kick in if you bring Sic'Em, but most of the time, its just OWP+Rapid Fire.

    That’s a valid point, but I still somewhat disagree with it. You can find tools on multiple professions / builds to avoid it. Will most of players react to it fast enough? No. But this is going for “I need to be the first one to hit, I better not miss, I better have my cds”. There are so many situations were the conditions needed for the burst are not met (or you just die after).

    It's a give and take thing. LB Ranger has the ability to engage from further away and resolve combat while not ever being in danger of a reprisal. As I said though RF itself can down someone, if not then OWP and AA can hit together for 10k, that is still strong enough to end a fight, or is 10k too low to count as a spike? OWP+RF is powerful but together are only needed for tank busting.

    One trick ponies are just that one tricks. But one trick ponies are still fun for people to play, and this is one of the safer ones to play.

    A low effort spike tied to long cds that leaves you pretty weak. As soon as your burst is gone or missed or you are the target, or there just are more people then your strength drops a lot Again this is why I think “too easy” needs to be detailed.

    Linked build still can get 4-5k AA hits, not like it's damage drops off a cliff relative to HP totals.

    Besides this was all in reply to a minstrel FB wondering how a Soulbeast downed him so quickly. I posted a build that was not even 100% optimized for damage that hits for over 60k in a spike. There is plenty of room to lower the damage for more survivability, which speaks even further to the point that Soulbeast doesn't even need to go full DPS to get meme level damage spikes.

    If you do you then become vulnerable to other things like blocks / reflects or just loose dps (which you will definitely feel) because those 3 specializations are used to get increased damage. There is always a drawback.

    You could drop either of the two core traitlines and not be impacted greatly in dps loss. LB should carry unblockables anyway to secure spiked on the relevant targets. It's the other two utility skills that are truly open slots for either more dps or more survivability.

    Can't do anything when they are already dead, which is why people meme out on Soulbeast so often. Its the safest one to meme on.

    It probably is a strong contestant. But outside of sniping someone alone (or maybe 2 weak players) you are quite limited.

    And yet outside of zerg fights that is the majority of what you'll encounter. Solo roamers and small groups.

    You probably based yourself on the damage formula on something with 0 defense because, sure “on paper” that’s what you get. I tried the build tonight for 1h30 and the highest I got was probably more around 8,5k. (~4.6auto, ~3.6 wolf)

    Based on 2681 defense, which is more than most players have. I did state that it was top end potential, which is not what you should expect on every encounter. I was upfront about that, but are proving my point that it isn't even needed.

    I did erased people almost instantly. I definitely broke many people. One of my first target was a reaper who got deleted in seconds. The build is very boring to play and probably unfun to encounter. Almost disgusting.

    Again, you are proving my point, it deletes people.

    Actually I cannot think of a single line where I said the opposite. I literally said multiple times that yes you will but if conditions are not met you fail, run and do nothing while waiting for cds time or die. So once again, all those stand but I did underestimate how unfun it can be in WvW when you can have more downtime (between the map size, having 2-3 more players with you, the time of the day).

    Not having the conditions met affects any build not just this meme one. Besides there is a GS there for melee and last I checked maul hits hard, has a very low CD, and can be chained with hilt bash. Do not pretend that there are no options left if you fail the LB spike. There is a reason why ranger LB +GS is such a strong combination.

    But literally everything I said stands. People did invuln + blinked away, supports did stand the damage, stunbreak and dodges happened (even stealth without sic'em). Anytime I would take a single hit before starting the burst I would loose my modifiers and go down a few seconds later, in zergs the damage was nullified after a few seconds or immediately (if not body blocked), anything coming when my skills were on cd was pretty bad for me.

    Then that's on you for not using GS for the block plus double swoop to reset the burst. You'll always encounter someone better than you though.

    As far as I am concerned that’s still not a build I would rank as good (I prefer a more balanced version) but I can see why people would hate it. I do not play WvW that often because I feel like I lose my mind in zergs and get frustrated in solo when dying to os builds.

    That's fine. It isn't a balanced setup at all, and wasn't meant to be. It was meant as an example of how Soulbeast on its top end can delete anything even on a minstrel set.

    Edit : Last time I dropped some damage for survivability I definitely felt a difference, maybe I will try again an other day. Loosing stats, modifiers or unblockable is 100% going to affect your dps and your playstyle because you will have to go for gs.

    Of course it will. But your also need to play more like a stalker on that build to ensure you get the jump on people and ensure success.

    Thanks for the tips. However I feel like I have way more hours playing sicem in sPvP than you seem to think :)

    Hey I don't know you so I have to go with base assumptions here. No worries there mate. As I said it was just the example of the top end Soulbeast burst to explain to a minstrel FB why they could have died so quick.

    There are parts of Soulbeast that hit way too hard for a meta where things are supposed to be hitting for a lot less, but that is also true for some other classes as well and just shows how BAD the Feb. Patch was in reality.

  • Sandzibar.5134Sandzibar.5134 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 21, 2020

    Imagine playing guardian and dying to single target projectile weapons. Yikes.

  • Bursty longbow/greatsword meme builds aren't exactly a new concept. I'm not sure I agree that they require no skill, however. Pushing 1 button to take out an opponent is easy, and if your gameplay consists of running around looking for soft targets and dying or running from everything else then I'd agree that's no-skill play. But succeeding against skilled opponents with these builds is usually not so easy. Just because you can potentially kill them with 1 rapid fire doesn't mean they're going to let you do it!

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You as Minstrel FB only need to use this once : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chapter_3:_Valiant_Bulwark, any Firebrand can do that.

    And the ranger is defeated before he can finish his RF, you don't even need to do anything else.

    You are welcome.

  • @anduriell.6280 said:
    You as Minstrel FB only need to use this once : https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chapter_3:_Valiant_Bulwark, any Firebrand can do that.

    And the ranger is defeated before he can finish his RF, you don't even need to do anything else.

    You are welcome.

    There is a reason Memebeasts take Signet of the Hunt. There is plenty of Projectile hate that not securing a spike with unblockables is bad build setup. Any build that carries unblockables melee or range can make short work of a Guardian. Hell, I've killed my fair share of FBs because of Signet of Might and Lesser Signet of Might. Too many Guardians over rely on their blocks.