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I’m just gonna leave this here.

Bear.9568Bear.9568 Member ✭✭✭

Buff Thief

Comments

  • Tashigi.3159Tashigi.3159 Member ✭✭✭

    Thief is finally in a place where it's prob best balanced. Maybe it'd needs a bit of a small tiny, tiny tune up and down in some areas but I rather not risk it. ANET's idea of a tune up is giving you a rocket launcher and a tune down is basically removing your class from the game.

  • avey.4201avey.4201 Member ✭✭✭

    power guardian wants thief burst, then thief can has buff.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    And I'm gonna leave this here :

    Buff Warrior first.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I main engi, but

    Buff Mesmer

  • @Bear.9568 said:
    Buff Thief

    Yeah, I think I've seen a thief die once, 4 days ago, it's definitely weak now :(

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 18, 2020

    Just a hint, making a buff thread in a forum that has a universal thief hating population isn't gonna yield great results. The community gives 0 $hits if u enjoy the class, how many enjoy the class or what kinda state it's in balanced or not as they truly only want the class to be unusable or deleted from the game.
    For yrs players have said that thiefs mobility was broken and that their mobility should be hard nerfed then maybe the could get some damage back to get away from the decap runner role. As anyone coulda guessed though even when thee tool that gave them such mobility is hard nerfed they still want the class mobility nerfed more and any idea of buffs to other areas are not unfathomable, funny though how when the nerfs to mobility do actually come know one wants to discuss buffs in other areas lol. I'm glad the pvp population dead, well deserved and not a surprise at all.

  • gut shadow arts to the ground, its boring AF to play.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Endorphin.9147 said:
    gut shadow arts to the ground, its boring AF to play.

    then dont play it, its not like other traits are unplayable, in fact if enemy team doesnt have thief I think other traits are better then SA

  • Jekkt.6045Jekkt.6045 Member ✭✭✭

    i would not mind a sword auto buff. everything else would probably only result in some stupid gimmick build again.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 i dont play it most of the time, the problem is when vsing other thieves (which there is usually 1-2 thieves on each team every match in my experience) if you are not running shadow arts you are putting yourself at a disadvantage

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Endorphin.9147 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649 i dont play it most of the time, the problem is when vsing other thieves (which there is usually 1-2 thieves on each team every match in my experience) if you are not running shadow arts you are putting yourself at a disadvantage

    yep, this is thiefs problem. they have LOADS of builds, but they are all gate kept, not by other classes but by enemy thief, kind off ironic

  • i agree lmao, hence gut shadow arts

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Getting 1 ini back from shadows rejuvenation each time they go In stealth does make up for the nerf costs to shadow shot/ini arrow. Cant remember when black powder went to 6 as well, pretty sure it use to be 5 at 1 point.

  • memausz.7264memausz.7264 Member ✭✭✭

    They are still going to be used in MATs, so... I don't know what to tell you, brother.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Endorphin.9147 said:
    gut shadow arts to the ground, its boring AF to play.

    then dont play it, its not like other traits are unplayable, in fact if enemy team doesnt have thief I think other traits are better then SA

    Theyre not. DA used to be fine but its bad now, and acrobatics and critical strikes are in fact unplayable, though for different reasons. Granted, not like DA plays any different to SA.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Endorphin.9147 said:
    gut shadow arts to the ground, its boring AF to play.

    then dont play it, its not like other traits are unplayable, in fact if enemy team doesnt have thief I think other traits are better then SA

    Theyre not. DA used to be fine but its bad now, and acrobatics and critical strikes are in fact unplayable, though for different reasons. Granted, not like DA plays any different to SA.

    im speaking about good thiefs, that can survive without stealthing for 20s+ at a time

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Endorphin.9147 said:
    gut shadow arts to the ground, its boring AF to play.

    then dont play it, its not like other traits are unplayable, in fact if enemy team doesnt have thief I think other traits are better then SA

    Theyre not. DA used to be fine but its bad now, and acrobatics and critical strikes are in fact unplayable, though for different reasons. Granted, not like DA plays any different to SA.

    im speaking about good thiefs, that can survive without stealthing for 20s+ at a time

    Yes. For those too SA is superior to DA, and Acrobatics and Critical strikes are unplayable, and their playstyle doesnt change if they were to pick DA. Not entirely sure what point you were making here tbh.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Theyre not. DA used to be fine but its bad now, and acrobatics and critical strikes are in fact unplayable, though for different reasons. Granted, not like DA plays any different to SA.

    DA is still pretty good, but it has been demoted to "use if yu have the slot for it" which makes it really only used on Core Thief.
    SA is just up there with Trickery right now : Too good to not use, too many benefits to ignore.

    To not use SA is to lose an Emergency Stealth from using a Heal Skill, to lose cleanse while in Stealth, to lose Venom Siphon, to lose Boon Steal on Stealth attack now that Bountiful Thief has been nerfed.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Theyre not. DA used to be fine but its bad now, and acrobatics and critical strikes are in fact unplayable, though for different reasons. Granted, not like DA plays any different to SA.

    DA is still pretty good, but it has been demoted to "use if yu have the slot for it" which makes it really only used on Core Thief.
    SA is just up there with Trickery right now : Too good to not use, too many benefits to ignore.

    The issue is that DA is inferior damage-wise to both DD and SA. The only reason youd ever pick DA is because you either dont have HoT, or youre playing S/D which doesnt use stealth attacks at all.

    To not use SA is to lose an Emergency Stealth from using a Heal Skill, to lose cleanse while in Stealth, to lose Venom Siphon, to lose Boon Steal on Stealth attack now that Bountiful Thief has been nerfed.

    Oh you wouldnt particularly miss most of those. The cleanse in stealth is pretty kitten weak as is, and people are often not even using it. The stealth on heal skill is not terrible, but not worth a traitline, and the boon rip is nice, but now that its just 1 stolen boon, not imperative. No the main reason you pick SA is because its the most consistent damage traitline in its slot. DA does less damage, CS is completely unreliable to the point where it will usually do less damage as well.

  • yep, this is thiefs problem. they have LOADS of builds, but they are all gate kept, not by other classes but by enemy thief, kind off ironic

    [email protected] LOADS of builds.

    Gut SA and you'll have 2 dead trait lines (hello acro) and a traitline thats basically mandatory for all builds (trickery). Where will these loads of viable builds come from?

  • felix.2386felix.2386 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 26, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Endorphin.9147 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649 i dont play it most of the time, the problem is when vsing other thieves (which there is usually 1-2 thieves on each team every match in my experience) if you are not running shadow arts you are putting yourself at a disadvantage

    yep, this is thiefs problem. they have LOADS of builds, but they are all gate kept, not by other classes but by enemy thief, kind off ironic

    thief doesn't only gate kept thief tho. that's the problem. thief also gate kept any roamer that isnt thief
    that's why you are able to play non-SA when enemy has no thief.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @felix.2386 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Endorphin.9147 said:
    @Leonidrex.5649 i dont play it most of the time, the problem is when vsing other thieves (which there is usually 1-2 thieves on each team every match in my experience) if you are not running shadow arts you are putting yourself at a disadvantage

    yep, this is thiefs problem. they have LOADS of builds, but they are all gate kept, not by other classes but by enemy thief, kind off ironic

    thief doesn't only gate kept thief tho. that's the problem. thief also gate kept any roamer that isnt thief
    that's why you are able to play non-SA when enemy has no thief.

    I know, playing power mesmer doesnt even feel all that bad when enemy doesnt have thief.

  • anjo.6143anjo.6143 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    And I'm gonna leave this here :

    Buff Warrior first.

    Buff? What u want more in a warrior?

  • anjo.6143anjo.6143 Member ✭✭✭

    @PeerlessArch.6547 said:

    yep, this is thiefs problem. they have LOADS of builds, but they are all gate kept, not by other classes but by enemy thief, kind off ironic

    [email protected] LOADS of builds.

    Gut SA and you'll have 2 dead trait lines (hello acro) and a traitline thats basically mandatory for all builds (trickery). Where will these loads of viable builds come from?

    Thief has 2 mandatory trait lines, trick and SA. And only 2 builds viable, u have DA for condi or DRD for power.

    With that being said, thief loses 1x1 against all classes of the game, but mes (in top tier, cause low tier thief wouldnt win against mes mechanic, absolutely no way).

    Now, with speed nerfs, thief can be chased by a lot of classes with ports.

    So you cannot win a fight and barely can escape from it, thief now is "spend all ur ini to stealth and look for UNGUARDED nodes to decap", cause even on +1, duelists and teamfighters are now too much bunkers to kill in a reasonable time that compensate being outnumbered in another place at the map. It just make more sense play a revenant instead.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anjo.6143 said:
    Buff? What u want more in a warrior?

    I guess having two 300s ICD traits in Defense is a good thing then?

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    as if anything in pvp matters
    buff this, nerf that

    what about fixing things that are just there to annoy you? like the tournaments

    first match, you get plat 2-3 as a poor gold team. massacre
    second match, you should be palced against an equal team? nope "BYE" since the team you were supposed to get, just left or does not exist
    third match you are at the winner bracket again, embrace plat 2-3 team
    1 hour spend, 0 matches won

    this BYE is the most stupid thing ever implented, if it is seen as a win, atleast make it count as a win.

    same with leavers, there is allways this one random guy who rages or leaves out of nowhere each couple of tournaments screwing over 4 others.

    make the basics work, before we finetune the details

  • Bear.9568Bear.9568 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2020

    BTW thief didnt win EU MAT, 2x Rev / 2x Holo / 1x Warrior did. No one cares about NA, they lose to EU every TOC.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bear.9568 said:
    BTW thief didnt win EU MAT, 2x Rev / 2x Holo / 1x Warrior did. No one cares about NA, they lose to EU every TOC.

    this confirms it, thief needs buffs

  • anjo.6143anjo.6143 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @anjo.6143 said:
    Buff? What u want more in a warrior?

    I guess having two 300s ICD traits in Defense is a good thing then?

    Just like Acro on thief? What ur complain?

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anjo.6143 said:

    I guess having two 300s ICD traits in Defense is a good thing then?

    Just like Acro on thief? What ur complain?

    Because Warrior Defense traitline is already pretty bad.
    Master Majors :
    Defy Pain (300s CD)
    Armored Attack (Useless on a low Tough build, and the conversion isn't even that good even with a Tough build)
    Sundering Mace (Useless unless one is using Mace, because it only buffs specifically Mace skills)

    For Acro, even if yu don't pick Instant Reflexes, Vigorous Recovery is still somewhat useful, and so is Pain Response, and especially Pain Response, since it is a mass Condi cleanse + Regen on a 60s Cooldown.

    Warrior's Defense Majors are utterly trashed because yu are now forced to either pick a 300s cooldown skill, or pick 2 skills which are useless unless yu run a specific build.
    How is that okay?

    What's next?
    Yur gonna tell me to not run Defense then?

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • anjo.6143anjo.6143 Member ✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @anjo.6143 said:

    I guess having two 300s ICD traits in Defense is a good thing then?

    Just like Acro on thief? What ur complain?

    Because Warrior Defense traitline is already pretty bad.
    Master Majors :
    Defy Pain (300s CD)
    Armored Attack (Useless on a low Tough build, and the conversion isn't even that good even with a Tough build)
    Sundering Mace (Useless unless one is using Mace, because it only buffs specifically Mace skills)

    For Acro, even if yu don't pick Instant Reflexes, Vigorous Recovery is still somewhat useful, and so is Pain Response, and especially Pain Response, since it is a mass Condi cleanse + Regen on a 60s Cooldown.

    Warrior's Defense Majors are utterly trashed because yu are now forced to either pick a 300s cooldown skill, or pick 2 skills which are useless unless yu run a specific build.
    How is that okay?

    What's next?
    Yur gonna tell me to not run Defense then?

    60s cd for cleanse and small regen is garbo. And it isnt good for any specific build.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anjo.6143 said:

    60s cd for cleanse and small regen is garbo. And it isnt good for any specific build.

    Yea? Acro in general is pretty bad unless yu are running Sword builds.
    The thing is Acro doesn't have two 300s cooldown traits taking up 2 slots in MASTER AND GRANDMASTER slots which are usually reserved for more powerful traits.

    And what do yu mean by not good for any specific build?
    60s blanket cleanse of all damaging conditions is good for any build in competitive where the enemy has condi bombs.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Bear.9568Bear.9568 Member ✭✭✭

    I've said it before and I'll say it again... BUFF THIEF

    Thiefs main role in pvp is decap / +1, in the current meta there is no decap option as holo's sit home/far and cant be moved, even in 2v1's it takes an long time to work down the nade holo's while not getting rekt. This doesn't include the revs dropping condi like they're the new mesmers. Meanwhile tanky af warriors rotate from mid to whichever side is being pressured and have battle standard to insta revive any downs.

    Thief just creates outnumbered situations for their team because they don't have the power or pressure they used to, thus they can't force anything with high burst potential or finding open nodes to decap because nodes are not left unattended in this meta.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Eh isn't daredevil the decapper? i mean you got swiftness from running and also getting rid of soft ccs and some hard ccs with mobility.

    Daredevil seems like a pretty good decapper or it did.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Bear.9568Bear.9568 Member ✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:
    Eh isn't daredevil the decapper? i mean you got swiftness from running and also getting rid of soft ccs and some hard ccs with mobility.

    Daredevil seems like a pretty good decapper or it did.

    There is no decap in this meta. It's all bunkers that never leave points. That means no decaps... get it

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bear.9568 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    Eh isn't daredevil the decapper? i mean you got swiftness from running and also getting rid of soft ccs and some hard ccs with mobility.

    Daredevil seems like a pretty good decapper or it did.

    There is no decap in this meta. It's all bunkers that never leave points. That means no decaps... get it

    It used to be that daredevil was the decapper it changed from last time i played, because i played a bit of thief.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Bear.9568 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    Eh isn't daredevil the decapper? i mean you got swiftness from running and also getting rid of soft ccs and some hard ccs with mobility.

    Daredevil seems like a pretty good decapper or it did.

    There is no decap in this meta. It's all bunkers that never leave points. That means no decaps... get it

    It used to be that daredevil was the decapper it changed from last time i played, because i played a bit of thief.

    thief is a roamer, and thief is still fine. not having thiefs aoe stealth at the start can still almost lose the entire game, and forcing bunkers to afk on nodes or get insta decapped provides huge value without doing anything, add it unblockable daze steal to counter long channeled blocks from things like warrior, ranger or rev and thief is still a good pick.
    Its just no longer so kitten broken that not having thief ment you might as well go afk, heck. I wouldnt be surprised if in 2-3months we will see thief in each team again anyways.