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10 reasons to remove desert map

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  • Just wait until they add a full underwater wvw map. GG.

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2020

    @sparc.3649 said:
    I have a better idea; why not get rid of those PLAIN JANE "alpine borderlands" maps, and make ALL borderlands, again, the desert BL maps!

    Sorry, NOT sorry; when they first came out [panzies] that didn't wanna learn the new maps QQ'd so hard - and I cannot believe ANet gave in, and got us to the situation we're in now. Where we have ONE DBL and two ABL

    The first and best solution IMHO would be to ditch all those old ABL's and MAKE ALL THREE desert BL's... And if people don't wanna play on em, too kitten bad! Next best or followup solution IMHO would be to ditch one MORE ABL, and have them design yet one more "new" map, so that ALL of the borderlands are unique...

    Sorry again not sorry, I can't believe so many people slapped ANet in the face like that when they put so much time and effort into giving us a new map... All a LOT of the playerbase did was INSULT them... YET WE WONDER WHY MANY OF US FEEL THIS GAME MODE IS NEGLECTED... Would you wanna work on something so hard only to have LAZY people that don't want to bother learning new things (because they hold an advantage on maps they already know [which is what it's REALLY about and we all know it]) INSULT you!!!??? Hell no I wouldn't ~ I'd give up on ya too! Then of course these are probably the same people that turn right around and complain "WvW doesn't get [enough/any] attention"; GEE I WONDER WHY... It couldn't have anything to do with the fact that when they tried, a great percentage of the player-base insulted them and or their "work"!

    "Bu bu but, the new maps are HARD mmkay"; GOOD - NEW content SHOULD be HARD/difficult/challenging...! I do not play games because they're easy... If I wanted easy mode I'd go play doom and IDDQD that ****! Games SHOULD be challenging...

    Funny I just got done explaining to a friend (who has never played an MMO) about how just about ANY/EVERY MMO is MOST fun when they first launch. Because nobody has yet figured out how to "abuse" anything in it! When it's CHALLENGING to EVERYONE...! Then of course they dwindle over time because people start to abuse whatever they can! Even if it's something as simple as knowing a map like the back of their own hands!

    If they REALLY wanted to spice it up, they could come out with ALL new maps every X duration (year or two or so or whatever they decided)! THAT would be really interesting! But also, a LOT of WORK!

    If you have a cafe in a company building full of poor people, you need to cater to those poor people.

    Unfortunately WvW players just don't want desert map. It was and still is obvious from the activity.

    Now maybe desert map is perfect for your ideal playerbase from brain puzzle games but not for guild wars 2 community.

    My issues are that Desert map sucks because very few play it and you need 3 servers on it and the fact that 1 server on a matchup has different home map and since it isn't as popular as other servers home maps, it is obvious competitive advantage (or disadvantage if your server dislikes it)

    If desert map wants to have some success in the future, it needs to be redesigned as neutral map, maybe as revive of EotM, with middle castles and everything. But it will never be massive success because the playerbase already put it in the unplayable box in their heads

    You're the guy that shouts at poor people not wanting to buy expensive stuff . Yup, maybe it is partly desert map dislikers fault for not training their IQ before age 13, being conservatives and not wanting to put effort in, but is it really that simple?

    Ri Ba - Charr of logic
    ~Key to fixing WvW with minimal effort resides in my post history~

  • Sviel.7493Sviel.7493 Member ✭✭✭

    ea71b466a6.jpg Here are the current stats from the Borderlands in T1 NA on Thursday.

    Green is clearly the dominant server. Anyone in the match can see they have more people on more maps at all times. That's going to change the numbers a bit and is thus critical to understanding them.

    If we measure Activity as Kills + Deaths, which is already a pretty flawed approach for a non-deathmatch gamemode, we get the following:
    DBL has roughly 45k Activity.
    ABL(green) has roughly 34k Activity
    ABL(blue) has roughly 29k Activity

    Further, the K/D ratios on each map can tell us who's winning the most zerg fights. The difference between the highest and lowest K/D ratio can reveal if one server is just stomping all over the others.
    DBL has a 0.35 K/D gap
    ABL(green) has a 1.94 K/D gap
    ABL(blue) has a 0.98 K/D gap

    What these numbers seem to be saying is that both Alpine BLs seem to be zerg stomping grounds in this match. Both ABLs are likely seeing huge activity spikes when zergs clash, but have relatively little going on outside of that. DBL either has fewer huge zerg clashes or the outcome of the zerg fights is much more varied. It's notable that the server with the lowest KDR (blue) and the server with the highest KDR (green) both move toward the middle on DBL.

    We can also conclude that this isn't because servers are avoiding DBL. Each server's top kill count is on their home BL, but blue and green both record their second highest kill counts on DBL rather than on the other ABL.

    Of course, we also can't look at one week and conclude that DBL is the most popular map of all time. To some degree, we may just be seeing that SoS is defending their home BL with greater fervor and thus generating more activity. Or, it could be that they are the weakest server and thus both other servers are trying to cannibalize them.

    P.S. EBG has about 43k Activity by the same measure, meaning DBL is the highest K+D map in the matchup after almost 6 days of fighting.

  • Bristingr.5034Bristingr.5034 Member ✭✭✭

    Why not make a 3rd BL design? That way all 3 maps have something different?

    mind blown

  • Dagger.2035Dagger.2035 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2021

    I think the main reason why it has less people is that it is more difficult to find fights. It will always be the last choice for this reason since fights can be more easily be found on the other maps. The same is true for FPS games. Smaller maps feel more intense since you can quickly get back into the action. It has nothing to do with the quality of the map.

    This map had many more problems on release and the original complains were valid and not from an unwillingness to learn a new map. Unfortunately many of the flaws originated from community suggestions.

    • Multiple Paths: Multiple hidden paths were supposed to allow small groups to move around the map and counter zergs, but this just makes it more difficult to find fights and makes the map feel empty when it isn't.
    • 3-Way Waypoints: The waypoints were changed so each color could only waypoint one of the keeps. This was probably added to promote three way fights and address complains that an enemy can waypoint all of the keeps in a home borderlands. This is another change that made the map feel bigger than it actually was since it made it more difficult to respond to white swords.
    • Large Keeps & Marked: Larger keeps were added to provide more room for zerg vs zerg fights inside an objective. This also removes double cata walls which makes it more difficult for a large zerg to quickly flip objectives in a map. Marked was also added so zergs didnt' have to spend time sweeping an objective. I feel like the marked mechanic was a mistake since that was a fun aspect of roaming. Hiding in an objective hoping no one would find you so you could solo the lord and take it back. This wasn't a problem back then, but now mark could only be removed if you also remove the thief portal or reduce stealth.
    • Auto Upgrades: People wanted the ability to zerg and not be responsible for scouting and upgrading objectives. There was also problems with trolls triggering upgrades to waste supply before an attack. I feel this is another bad change. It diminishes roaming and removes strategic play and benefits zergs.
    • Guild Upgrades: The guild upgrades hurt roaming since roamers no longer had access to the +5 supply bonus.
    • Tower Importance: A post suggested that towers should do more to help control a map since they could be bypassed. They added tower walls which made it more difficult to navigate the map. The dumb thing about the implementation is that the walls only impacted roamers since zergs could easily destroy section of the wall. It doesn't make sense to deter roaming and push people towards zerging.
    • Tower Placement: There were many complaints about the top corners of the alpine borderlands. I also believe that there were posts that objectives shouldn't be able to threaten neighboring objectives with trebs.
    • Enhanced PvE Lords: There were suggestions that there should be minimum player limits to capture objectives and that keeps should be group content. This gave us enhanced lords which do nothing but interfere with PvP fights.
    • Laser Event: The laser event was way too frequent. You would be in the middle of something and would have to constantly go back to the center of the map. It was supposed to be roamer friendly but could be easily done more quickly with a zerg.
    • Map View: The map still looks awful. It's like someone with only MS paint skills dropped in the new bitmap.
    • Vertical Terrain: No one asked for this.

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  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2021

    @Sviel.7493 said:
    ea71b466a6.jpg Here are the current stats from the Borderlands in T1 NA on Thursday.

    Green is clearly the dominant server. Anyone in the match can see they have more people on more maps at all times. That's going to change the numbers a bit and is thus critical to understanding them.

    If we measure Activity as Kills + Deaths, which is already a pretty flawed approach for a non-deathmatch gamemode, we get the following:
    DBL has roughly 45k Activity.
    ABL(green) has roughly 34k Activity
    ABL(blue) has roughly 29k Activity

    Further, the K/D ratios on each map can tell us who's winning the most zerg fights. The difference between the highest and lowest K/D ratio can reveal if one server is just stomping all over the others.
    DBL has a 0.35 K/D gap
    ABL(green) has a 1.94 K/D gap
    ABL(blue) has a 0.98 K/D gap

    What these numbers seem to be saying is that both Alpine BLs seem to be zerg stomping grounds in this match. Both ABLs are likely seeing huge activity spikes when zergs clash, but have relatively little going on outside of that. DBL either has fewer huge zerg clashes or the outcome of the zerg fights is much more varied. It's notable that the server with the lowest KDR (blue) and the server with the highest KDR (green) both move toward the middle on DBL.

    We can also conclude that this isn't because servers are avoiding DBL. Each server's top kill count is on their home BL, but blue and green both record their second highest kill counts on DBL rather than on the other ABL.

    Of course, we also can't look at one week and conclude that DBL is the most popular map of all time. To some degree, we may just be seeing that SoS is defending their home BL with greater fervor and thus generating more activity. Or, it could be that they are the weakest server and thus both other servers are trying to cannibalize them.

    P.S. EBG has about 43k Activity by the same measure, meaning DBL is the highest K+D map in the matchup after almost 6 days of fighting.

    (Taken from gw2stats website 2 hours before reset)

    EU T1

    EB: 52.6k Deaths total
    Red BL: 21.2k deaths
    Blue bl:: 31.4k deaths
    Green bl: 28.4k deaths

    EU T2

    EB: 64.5k deaths
    Red BL: 28.2K deaths
    Blue BL: 28.7k deaths (home map of a bandvagoner server that is avoided)
    Green BL: 38.5k deaths

    EU T3

    EB: 55k deaths
    Red BL: 22.6k deaths
    Blue BL: 29.3k deaths
    Green BL: 30.7k deaths

    EU T4

    EB: 58.9k deaths
    Red BL: 17.8k deaths
    Blue BL: 26.7k deaths
    Green BL: 25.3k deaths

    EU T5

    EB: 34.4k deaths
    Red BL: 4.2k deaths (owned by dead server)
    Blue BL: 26.8k deaths
    Green BL: 25.1k deaths

    Desert bl is much less popular in every tier.

    I gotta give you that desert map isn't half as popular as alpine map but 30%+ less according to deaths. But if you account that people choose between 2 alpine maps, it is at least 40% less popular than alpine map, even as low as half as popular. There is definitely massive advantage or disadvantage in having desert bl as home map.

    I still think that having different borderland for some servers is very bad for the scoring balance. And that logic that choosing between 2 alpine maps is enough when you can choose between 3 (for example if you want to lure out the server that has desert map otherwise) is flawed.

    EB is massively more popular so maybe adding more EBs is an option. Like as 5th map. Or just test run 3 EBs, no borderlands at all.

    Ri Ba - Charr of logic
    ~Key to fixing WvW with minimal effort resides in my post history~

  • Sviel.7493Sviel.7493 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2021

    @Threather.9354
    It would be a lot easier to do an apples-to-apples comparison if we both used the same data. Is there any particular reason you've chosen to count only deaths? Also, with no other data, it's really hard to understand why any of that stuff is.

    It seems like you're trying to argue that DBL is universally unpopular. What you would need to show then is that the data from NA T1 last week was an anomaly. If data from other matchups is different, that would suggest that DBL is just abnormally popular in NA T1. To that end, looking at EU tiers is worthwhile, but we have to make sure we're checking for the same things.

    I can't seem to figure out how to pull up historical map data on WvWstats, but let's look at what's happening today in EU.

    T1 EU bf4bd93ff3.jpg

    EBG Activity: 2,933K + 3,003D = 5,936A
    EBG KDR Gap: 2.82

    DBL Activity: 2,137K + 2,290D = 4,427A
    DBL KDR Gap: 0.76

    ABL(blue) Activity: 2,172K + 2,249D = 4,421A
    ABL(blue) KDR Gap: 0.71

    ABL(green) Activity: 2,927K + 3,062D = 5,989A
    ABL(green) KDR Gap: 2.02

    Since this is a short ways into the match, I don't think it can be compared to previous data. One big difference that immediately jumps out is that no server has their highest borderland kill count recorded on their home BL. Still, based on what we see here it's safe to say that no map has been an outlier with popularity so far in this match-up. Two maps, EBG and GABL, have been clear zerg stomping grounds.

    Let's check tier 2 EU as well.

    T2 EU bfc35a2a1f.jpg

    EBG Activity: 3,085K + 3,153D = 6,238A
    EBG KDR Gap: 1.14

    DBL Activity: 2,221K + 2,427D = 4,648A
    DBL KDR Gap: 1.13

    ABL(blue) Activity: 2,707K + 2,793D = 5,500A
    ABL(blue) KDR Gap: 2.05

    ABL(green) Activity: 2,404K + 2,502D = 4,906A
    ABL(green) KDR Gap: 1.08

    It's interesting that the total Activity numbers are actually higher in T2 EU than T1 EU. Again, no server records their highest kill count at home, but it's also clear that Blue made no progress anywhere except RBL. Their KDR at home was 0.25 and on GBL was 0.3, yet somehow they earned 1.72 on RBL. Meanwhile, Green racked up a huge kill count on BBL but had averageish numbers elsewhere. I imagine knowing more about the actual server dynamics would shed more light on these numbers. Anyway, while there is again no massive difference in popularity between maps (perhaps due to queues?), this is the first tier I've checked that actually has EBG on top and DBL on the bottom.

    Now, for comparison, let's look at the top two tiers in NA. Reset is just a few hours off so it's the opposite side of the match.

    T1 NA ccb53d6c4c.jpg

    EBG Activity: 50,105K + 51,612D = 101,717A
    EBG KDR Gap: 1.1

    DBL Activity: 22,474K + 24,609D = 47,083A
    DBL KDR Gap: 0.33

    ABL(blue) Activity: 15,766K + 16,727D = 32,493A
    ABL(blue) KDR Gap: 1.06

    ABL(green) Activity: 19,743K + 20,680D = 40,423A
    ABL(green) KDR Gap: 1.86

    There's been a massive end-of-week surge in EBG numbers that probably means something important. It went from the second most active map to double the Activity of other maps in about a day. That is, a full week's worth of dying and killing happened basically overnight. Unless I somehow screwed up the earlier snapshot...? This can only be because of zergs recklessly clashing since the match was probably decided way earlier in the week.

    Other than that, at weeks end, we see a clear preference among borders for DBL in this tier. As we saw earlier, it also has the lowest KDR gap out of all of the tiers we've checked so far.

    T2 NA d954e4b784.jpg

    EBG Activity: 58,522K + 59,894D = 118,416A
    EBG KDR Gap: 0.35

    DBL Activity: 9,131K + 10,185D = 19,316A
    DBL KDR Gap: 0.2

    ABL(blue) Activity: 17,230K + 18,019D = 35,249A
    ABL(blue) KDR Gap: 0.47

    ABL(green) Activity: 23,063K + 24,095D = 47,158A
    ABL(green) KDR Gap: 0.3

    This matchup looks most like what you've claiming all of WvW looks like. Is it, per chance, your own? We see surprisingly low KDR gaps across the board here. Activity is also slightly higher than T1 with the exception of DBL, where it has plummeted. Since no server has an outsize KDR on RBL, it seems that they just didn't fight much there which suggests that there was a lackluster defense. It may be a similar situation to Maguuma where the server has amassed so many folks that despise a certain thing that it just doesn't get done. If you're not familiar, Maguuma has a seemingly religious objection to PPT...and thus now sit at the bottom of the servers in the last tier in NA.

    Can anyone from Kaineng or JQ shed some light on that?

    Maybe I'll check what NA looks like after reset, but I kind of doubt I'll be around at that time tomorrow. Hopefully I can at least screenshot the matches and tally them up later...

    edit: It's also worth noting that we're measuring kills and deaths instead of direct activity. Since EBG is a more compressed map, it follows that the same number of people on EBG for the same amount of time as a BL will generate more kills and deaths. This doesn't necessarily mean the map is more popular--just that the playstyle is more focused on killing and dying. However, since I don't know of a way to directly measure player population per map, this will have to do.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    People happily play on DBL when the maps are queued, exactly the same how EB vs ABL work?

    Stop trying to ruin Threathers world view with statistics and logic, its just rude!

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
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  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2021

    @Sviel.7493 said:
    big kitten post about selective stats after reset instead of whole matchup and questioning completely legit way of doing calculations about activity

    Its reset, there are only like 2-3 servers on EU that don't have 3-4 maps queued. Counting Deaths or kills, its the same. Doing both would be extra work and just double the effort for nothing.

    I provided the source, did during last skirmish before reset, counted it one by one for 20 maps across 5 tiers. I don't know why you would try to undermine such work.

    Ri Ba - Charr of logic
    ~Key to fixing WvW with minimal effort resides in my post history~

  • Sviel.7493Sviel.7493 Member ✭✭✭

    How are you going to accuse me of using selective stats?

    Actually, nvm, this is clearly pointless...I don't know why I keep doing this to myself, lol.

  • Magnuzone.8395Magnuzone.8395 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2021

    It's like when you are too deep into a discussion and can't back out, even if you realize that you are wrong.

    They will never admit the failure that Desert BL is. Desert is a kitten-map and a lot of people said so right after they launched it. Mostly among the more frequent WvW players. But at that time spending more time and money on redesigning it wasn't an option, and still isn't.

  • Sylvyn.4750Sylvyn.4750 Member ✭✭✭

    Just remember that we voted on the official Anet poll on this topic several years back and it was made clear that if DBL was voted out of the rotation entirely, Anet would not put any resources to making new WvW maps in the future, so we voted to keep DBL in the rotation, and for some it was a bitter pill, but they swallowed it to have any hope at all for new maps in WvW. However, we're still waiting for those resources to come to fruition as we still haven't seen a new map, but perhaps it is just taking a backseat to class balancing and server/alliance restructuring.

  • Sansar.1302Sansar.1302 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sylvyn.4750 said:
    Just remember that we voted on the official Anet poll on this topic several years back and it was made clear that if DBL was voted out of the rotation entirely, Anet would not put any resources to making new WvW maps in the future, so we voted to keep DBL in the rotation, and for some it was a bitter pill, but they swallowed it to have any hope at all for new maps in WvW. However, we're still waiting for those resources to come to fruition as we still haven't seen a new map, but perhaps it is just taking a backseat to class balancing and server/alliance restructuring.

    Yes but it seam like we are not gonna get any new maps so best to remove DBL now.

  • Garrus.7403Garrus.7403 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sylvyn.4750 said:
    Just remember that we voted on the official Anet poll on this topic several years back and it was made clear that if DBL was voted out of the rotation entirely, Anet would not put any resources to making new WvW maps in the future, so we voted to keep DBL in the rotation, and for some it was a bitter pill, but they swallowed it to have any hope at all for new maps in WvW. However, we're still waiting for those resources to come to fruition as we still haven't seen a new map, but perhaps it is just taking a backseat to class balancing and server/alliance restructuring.

    Always nice to have a gun pointed towards your head in a discussion.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Garrus.7403 said:

    @Sylvyn.4750 said:
    Just remember that we voted on the official Anet poll on this topic several years back and it was made clear that if DBL was voted out of the rotation entirely, Anet would not put any resources to making new WvW maps in the future, so we voted to keep DBL in the rotation, and for some it was a bitter pill, but they swallowed it to have any hope at all for new maps in WvW. However, we're still waiting for those resources to come to fruition as we still haven't seen a new map, but perhaps it is just taking a backseat to class balancing and server/alliance restructuring.

    Always nice to have a gun pointed towards your head in a discussion.

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    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

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  • TwoGhosts.6790TwoGhosts.6790 Member ✭✭✭

    I love DBL.
    EBG is a clown fiesta, which I also enjoy from time to time.
    ABLs are OK, the pipe, cardigan and slippers of WvW.

  • @Threather.9354 said:
    1. It is too hot for warclaw and camel skin is missing
    2. It gives unfair advantage/disadvantage (competitiveness)
    3. Its half as popular as one alpine map
    4. The keeps and towers are too large
    5. The lords have too much CC
    6. The siege spots are too high
    7. It has ton of bugs (falling through gates, leaping past walls)
    8. Lord rooms are designed for clouding and everything else is 1000 chokepoints
    9. Scouting it is impossible with every keep and tower having multiple cata/treb spots that can't be countered with siege in combination with 100 hiding spots
    10. It takes spot of a real map

    The map need some serious fixing and holding onto it is just failure to admit it isn't what the playerbase wants. Replace desert with 3rd alpine map. Design a new EB with different middle castle and throw it in, so we can have 5 maps instead of 4. Reduce map cap by like 15 as 60 man fights are much less fun than 45 ones

    Honestly they never should have kept the desert map to begin with. I avoid it like the plague.

  • "Design a new EB" Yeah I've been doing 100% of my WvW in EBG for years now. If they turned the alpine and desert bl maps into EBG clones, that'd be pretty cool - I wouldn't have to sit in EBG queue.

  • @Threather.9354 said:
    1. It is too hot for warclaw and camel skin is missing
    2. It gives unfair advantage/disadvantage (competitiveness)
    3. Its half as popular as one alpine map
    4. The keeps and towers are too large
    5. The lords have too much CC
    6. The siege spots are too high
    7. It has ton of bugs (falling through gates, leaping past walls)
    8. Lord rooms are designed for clouding and everything else is 1000 chokepoints
    9. Scouting it is impossible with every keep and tower having multiple cata/treb spots that can't be countered with siege in combination with 100 hiding spots
    10. It takes spot of a real map

    The map need some serious fixing and holding onto it is just failure to admit it isn't what the playerbase wants. Replace desert with 3rd alpine map. Design a new EB with different middle castle and throw it in, so we can have 5 maps instead of 4. Reduce map cap by like 15 as 60 man fights are much less fun than 45 ones

    1. Warclaw is a spirit so heat will not bother it
    2. Great for open fights with pinch points and obstacle's built in
    3. Only popular map is EB
    4. Keeps and Towers just the proper size to keep scouts busy
    5. CC the same they just do not stand still like the ones on Alpine and EB so standing in one spot to kill the Lord is not an option and no flame ram for Break
    6. only on Air Keep
    7. Alpine bay is bugged also
    8. They make a great space for a three way fight
    9. See number 4
    10. Replace one Alpine with a Water Map that way we can use all of our Shiny Weapons

    Desert was designed to be a hard map Alpine is a easy map designed for player running everywhere, In Desert BL you can not treb a keep from any tower so aggressors are out in the open not hiding behind a wall's EB has be changed several times, and we do have 5 maps 4. Map cap has been reduced
    What the Devs need to do is to fix broken cookie cutter builds

  • @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Threather.9354 said:
    My issues are that Desert map sucks because very few play it and you need 3 servers on it

    This however remains in direct opposition to the reason people say they like desert, it being more roamer friendly to fewer people.

    Also the GW2 community said to keep it so not sure why you say its not for the GW2 community.

    BTW in the NA matchups T1 DBL remains by far the more balanced border out of the 3 in terms of KDR and also the most active. Kind of funny.

    Alpines have been dead all week

  • @Sylvyn.4750 said:
    Just remember that we voted on the official Anet poll on this topic several years back and it was made clear that if DBL was voted out of the rotation entirely, Anet would not put any resources to making new WvW maps in the future, so we voted to keep DBL in the rotation, and for some it was a bitter pill, but they swallowed it to have any hope at all for new maps in WvW. However, we're still waiting for those resources to come to fruition as we still haven't seen a new map, but perhaps it is just taking a backseat to class balancing and server/alliance restructuring.

    Gee, sounds kinda like what I mentioned - although I missed whatever poll you speak of... But to everyone else, this was exactly my ****ing point when I said and MEAN that "WE the players - WERE/ARE in the WRONG" on this one... And I am not talking about myself here; I'm one of the ones who was like "lets give this map a chance" while almost literally EVERYONE else was like "don't like it".. I'm like DUDE seriously, you haven't even explored it all yet... Enter my comment about people being TOO LAZY TO LEARN IT... !!! Yes, that has been the PRIMARY reason from what I have seen w/ my own eyes... Was people NOT even giving it a chance...

    And you kittens expect ANet to continue to make new maps for WvW, after a good percentage of the LAZY kitten playerbase literally slapped them in the face over DBL

    Look in the mirror and GROW UP...

    I must admit, looking at some of these "stats" thrown around - has me literally laughing quite hard... That you all are going to argue over a maps popularity with graphs and flow-charts and statistics... DUDE IT'S A GAME (was never quite sure why all that kitten is tracked in the first place)... It's not like some HUGE eSports thing where you're going to win a million dollars for winning or having "better numbers" in ANY given 'category' /facepalm

    God, and I thought I was a geek! Here I just wanna hop in and play a game; not argue over graphs flow charts and powerpoint presentations of DATA collected over PREVIOUS (GAME) play...

    (TL;DR)

    But seriously, I do not blame ANet one bit; after what "WE" did to them (that whole slap in the face), and I do not expect a new map EVER - PERIOD... Thanks to most of you kittens out there!!! (and BTW I am not saying I like or dislike the DBL, that's not even relevant - the MAIN point of relevancy is/was that: at least I was willing to give it a chance while all you morons that were like ~ "NOPE DONT LIKE IT", like 10 minutes in...!!!!

  • primatos.5413primatos.5413 Member ✭✭✭

    Imo the only true reasons are
    1.: lag
    2.: lag
    3.: lag
    4.: lag
    5.: lag
    6.: lag
    7.: lag
    8.: lag
    9.: lag
    And Number 10.: lag

  • Threather.9354Threather.9354 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2021

    @sparc.3649 said:

    @Sylvyn.4750 said:
    Just remember that we voted on the official Anet poll on this topic several years back and it was made clear that if DBL was voted out of the rotation entirely, Anet would not put any resources to making new WvW maps in the future, so we voted to keep DBL in the rotation, and for some it was a bitter pill, but they swallowed it to have any hope at all for new maps in WvW. However, we're still waiting for those resources to come to fruition as we still haven't seen a new map, but perhaps it is just taking a backseat to class balancing and server/alliance restructuring.

    Gee, sounds kinda like what I mentioned - although I missed whatever poll you speak of... But to everyone else, this was exactly my ****ing point when I said and MEAN that "WE the players - WERE/ARE in the WRONG" on this one... And I am not talking about myself here; I'm one of the ones who was like "lets give this map a chance" while almost literally EVERYONE else was like "don't like it".. I'm like DUDE seriously, you haven't even explored it all yet... Enter my comment about people being TOO LAZY TO LEARN IT... !!! Yes, that has been the PRIMARY reason from what I have seen w/ my own eyes... Was people NOT even giving it a chance...

    And you kittens expect ANet to continue to make new maps for WvW, after a good percentage of the LAZY kitten playerbase literally slapped them in the face over DBL

    Look in the mirror and GROW UP...

    I must admit, looking at some of these "stats" thrown around - has me literally laughing quite hard... That you all are going to argue over a maps popularity with graphs and flow-charts and statistics... DUDE IT'S A GAME (was never quite sure why all that kitten is tracked in the first place)... It's not like some HUGE eSports thing where you're going to win a million dollars for winning or having "better numbers" in ANY given 'category' /facepalm

    God, and I thought I was a geek! Here I just wanna hop in and play a game; not argue over graphs flow charts and powerpoint presentations of DATA collected over PREVIOUS (GAME) play...

    (TL;DR)

    But seriously, I do not blame ANet one bit; after what "WE" did to them (that whole slap in the face), and I do not expect a new map EVER - PERIOD... Thanks to most of you kittens out there!!! (and BTW I am not saying I like or dislike the DBL, that's not even relevant - the MAIN point of relevancy is/was that: at least I was willing to give it a chance while all you morons that were like ~ "NOPE DONT LIKE IT", like 10 minutes in...!!!!

    Nah, people gave it more chances. It definitely has problems. All lord room fights are terrible CC fiestas, the walls are too high for comfort, the "surrounding square" around every gate is annoying for both manning the cannons and taking the keep.

    Your point that "lets play for fun and shut up" doesn't actually remove the fact that statistics show that the map is very unpopular and ruins the competitive balancing. Maybe you don't care about having extra alpine map or about fair matchmaking as every server having same borderland is just fairer, but some people do and you should respect it. Making fun of people caring about statistics and whatever is not exactly the mature thing to do, for some of us they are daily life and prefer it over talking about nice coctails, lame memes and latest tv shows or whatever normal people in your mind like to talk about.

    Just let the people who like to look at statistics and actually observe reasons for people not liking the map, instead of judging them for disliking something you yourself like, decide what is good for the gamemode. Then you can just keep playing the game and have fun without worrying about statistics or other peoples opinions.

    Ri Ba - Charr of logic
    ~Key to fixing WvW with minimal effort resides in my post history~

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @primatos.5413 said:
    Imo the only true reasons are
    1.: lag
    2.: lag
    3.: lag
    4.: lag
    5.: lag
    6.: lag
    7.: lag
    8.: lag
    9.: lag
    And Number 10.: lag

    This epitomize the reason many people want to remove features from the game, whether it be the stealth, downed state, condi herald, etc.

    Because removing DBL will do exactly nothing for lag.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • You can turn into a fire dog on DBL, it's clearly superior to anything else.

  • DBL has it's purpose. If all maps have a Que DBL doesn't. That's where it shines and welcomes me to play until the Que pops :)

    Veteran Flamer
    100% chance to be right after triggering a rage-whisper

  • It's Almost like ANET gave us a vote on it and we chose to remove the map and they gave this. It's almost like ANET asked the community to vote on the length of the linking and we voted on 1 month and they gave us 2. It's almost Like ANET acts like they care but REALLY DON"T CARE. Linking has been in BETA since it was put in but made them money with the bandwagon so they left it. Give them an option to remove it and make money... they may do it. Just Like adding mounts to WvW... something none of the regular wvw'ers cared about but anet put to make money and milk the player.

  • Sylvyn.4750Sylvyn.4750 Member ✭✭✭

    I dunno where you got your intel but no vote got over 50 percent on the linkings so they split the difference on where the majority of the votes hovered around.

    https://amp.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4nijk2/wvw_poll_6_june_world_linking_schedule_results/

  • Sylvyn.4750Sylvyn.4750 Member ✭✭✭

    And for reference, here are the DBL voting results...relying on Reddit posts quoting the original forum posts because the forum posts no longer exist: https://reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4p13ub/desert_borderlands_will_stay/

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sylvyn.4750 said:
    And for reference, here are the DBL voting results...relying on Reddit posts quoting the original forum posts because the forum posts no longer exist: https://reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4p13ub/desert_borderlands_will_stay/

    The forums still exist.

    https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Poll-14-June-Desert-Borderlands-Closed/page/4#post6212591

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Sylvyn.4750Sylvyn.4750 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Sylvyn.4750 said:
    And for reference, here are the DBL voting results...relying on Reddit posts quoting the original forum posts because the forum posts no longer exist: https://reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4p13ub/desert_borderlands_will_stay/

    The forums still exist.

    https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/WvW-Poll-14-June-Desert-Borderlands-Closed/page/4#post6212591

    Aha! Thanks...neither my google or forum search on it was coming up with any results other than the Reddit posts, and then the forum links in Reddit were broken, too.

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just remove this kitten already. Swallow your pride and admit you made a terrible map and get rid of it. Nobody wants to play it over the alpine maps..

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 17, 2021

    The Alpine maps are among the ugliest and most boring and stale maps in the entire game.
    I'd rather have 3 edge of the mist maps or 3 Desert Borderlands maps than have any duplicates of the Alpine maps.
    The Desert Borderlands is.. or more accurately was a breath of fresh air when it was released, regardless of it's issues i'm glad it's here and will gladly defend it's existence.

    WvW already suffers from an extreme case of tedium and fatigue.. the last thing it needs is less unique maps, if anything it needs more of them.

    But here's a simple suggestion, if you don't like the map, don't play on it.. it's that easy and plenty of people do that already.