WvW Soul beast needs a giant nerf! — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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WvW Soul beast needs a giant nerf!

asterix.9614asterix.9614 Member ✭✭✭
edited January 5, 2021 in Ranger

I have been roaming as a soulbeast for a month now, just to see why people were complaining about it so much. Jeebus, it's op, insane ranged damage, stealth field and stealth, really good condi cleanse and heal and able to traverse very long distances with gs and bird pet. I am not requesting a nerf for druid or core however no doubt if soulbeast was nerfed core would probably be affected as well. I think when it comes to utility skill the main problem is sic em, one wolf pack and entangle. The lb skill 2 is just stupidly op and smokescale smoke field and the soulbeast skill 2 is just stupid, it's like having a pocket rev/ thief. In terms of trait I found opressive superiority to be a tad op for something that weilds a long ranged high dps long bow. Anyway, yes most of the rangers in wvw are noobs, but ranger really needs a good looking at.
I know I will get hate and get good comments, I personally don't care. I have taken the time to actually play soulbeast for a whole month and I am just giving my "findings".

🍇🍈🍉🍊🍋🍌🍍🥭🥭🍏🍐🍑🍒🍓🥝🍅🥥🥑🍆🥔🥕🌽🌶️🥒🥬🥦🧄🧅🍄🥜🌰🍞🥐🥖🥨🥯🥞🧇🧀🍖🍗🥩🥓🍔🍟🍕🌭🥪🌮🌯🥙🧆🥚🍳🥘🍲🥣🥗🍿🧈🧂🥫🍱🍘🍙🍚🍛🍜🍝🍠🍢🍣🍤🍥🥮🍡🥟🥠🥡🦪🍦🍧🍨🍩🍪🎂🍰🧁🥧🍫🍬🍭🍮🍯🍼🥛☕🍵🍶🍾🍷🍸🍹🍺🍻🥂🥃🥤🧃🧉🧊_ I copied this from someone because it's cute_
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Comments

  • Za Shaloc.3908Za Shaloc.3908 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Soulbeast can be very oppressive, but as @LetoII.3782 mentioned, almost every class has this option in at least one form. It sucks to get SIc 'Em memed just like it sucks to get oneshot in general. Getting oneshot by a Sic 'Em Soulbeast feels about as bad as getting oneshot by a Deadeye or a core Mes because the time frame to react and save yourself is very low if they play their cards correctly. Still though, I don't really think the Sic 'Em meme should be nerfed further simply because it is highly neutered in any larger scale combat that isn't just a cloud of pugs. It has its niche but fight a group with a magnetic aura spam Tempest and it won't feel so powerful. IMO the only problematic thing left about Soulbeast is Dolyak Stance. The skill is extremely stacked, especially for just a 30s cooldown. It should have never received a damage/condi damage reduction component to it, simple as that.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 27, 2020

    I suppose the most annoying thing is the mobility. It's pretty hard to be caught on a soulbeast. You can of course escape even better with deadeye but then you aren't that effective.

    But then again that's just the issue with roaming; there's no reason to not abuse mobility. Still beats roaming with full supports though.

  • Shroud.2307Shroud.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LetoII.3782 said:
    an

    Singular. Soulbeast has multiple.

    Necro/Engi/Ranger/Rev | Maguuma | Diamond Legend
    [YWY] Weeping Valley | [xo] Fantasies
    My Youtube: Shroud
    "I'd rather lose playing something I enjoy than win playing something I don't."

  • kamikharzeeh.8016kamikharzeeh.8016 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i'd highly appreciate ranger getting thicc nerfs; the class is literally only good at ganking and roamering. and even with 30-40% of its current dps output that function would work still fine. NPCs aren't that strong.

  • asterix.9614asterix.9614 Member ✭✭✭

    @Baldrick.8967 said:
    The OP just wants ranger nerfed so he can switch back to his thief main and not have to worry about a class he has trouble against.
    Roaming isn't the main part of the game- and against any sort of organisation soul beasts aren't that strong.
    Sic Em could be removed entirely as I generally don't run it on my mainly zerging/group ranger, there are more useful skills to bring as utility.
    Dolyak stance is a life saver, without which spike damage from stealth would wipe you out before you can move.

    I have played engi and it's elite specs for a long kitten time, I can assure you that I have no trouble with pew pew ranger lol. I just wanted to see why people were complaining about it so much. Also I have never, ever used grenade anything on core, scrapper or holo, stop making presumptions lol...

    🍇🍈🍉🍊🍋🍌🍍🥭🥭🍏🍐🍑🍒🍓🥝🍅🥥🥑🍆🥔🥕🌽🌶️🥒🥬🥦🧄🧅🍄🥜🌰🍞🥐🥖🥨🥯🥞🧇🧀🍖🍗🥩🥓🍔🍟🍕🌭🥪🌮🌯🥙🧆🥚🍳🥘🍲🥣🥗🍿🧈🧂🥫🍱🍘🍙🍚🍛🍜🍝🍠🍢🍣🍤🍥🥮🍡🥟🥠🥡🦪🍦🍧🍨🍩🍪🎂🍰🧁🥧🍫🍬🍭🍮🍯🍼🥛☕🍵🍶🍾🍷🍸🍹🍺🍻🥂🥃🥤🧃🧉🧊_ I copied this from someone because it's cute_
    _

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2020

    @Shroud.2307 said:
    These are targeted changes because this is how balancing should be done. These things will effect Soulbeast and Soulbeast only. Not Druid or core. They are things that have been over performing and overlooked for a long time, and the spec will not die with these changes.

    Your suggestions are pretty close to be good but clearly don't play with ranger which shows.

    BoonBeast is not a thing anymore. It is very difficult to keep up the boon uptime although the Soulbeast can have a some moments where it can get a burst of boons.
    The main culprit of the efficiency of the tanky builds is the Axe Mainhand. That weapon does too much damage compared with the range and utility bought (weakness + chilled) . Without that weapon the tanky builds would be just that, tanky builds.

    In this thread i pointed out the reasons of why Axe mainhand needs a nerf and how to do it easy as it doesn't need much fiddlering.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/120143/nerfs-the-ranger-class-as-a-whole-needs-please-anet

    @Shroud.2307 said:
    Dolyak Stance is one of the biggest offenders.

    33% damage reduction
    33% Condition damage reduction
    Immune to movement impairing Conditions
    6 stacks of Stability
    Stunbreak
    30 second recharge

    Dolyak stance is over bloated you are correct. What I would do is to place the damage reduction into the Bear stance not because the stance is busted but to make other stances more useful. Right now Bear stance extra healing is basically negated by the condition ticks it is supposed to cleanse. And reduce the CD in SPvP to 40s.
    There are other stances which would need small adjustments like Moa (reduce the duration of the stance to 6s), Vulture(it needs to apply bleeds additionally) and Griffon (It needs to add an stun break) . And normalize all stance durations to 6s base (nerf to Moa and One Wolf Pack and a buff to Bear )

    @Shroud.2307 said:
    This is practically an elite skill. It makes you immune to all form of CC, on top of giving a Protection effect that cannot be removed that also effects Conditions.
    Removing the 33% damage/Condition damage reduction, and changing it so that it only reduces the duration of movement impairing Conditions, would make this skill a lot less overloaded, but still strong.

    Next, "Sic 'Em!" should apply Exhaustion to the Ranger for 3 seconds after use.

    That idea sounds interesting but then other classes in the game with an skill which gives a plain damage modifier should get the same treatment. List a followed:

    1. Herald  Burst of Strength — Legendary Dragon Stance, Consume
    2. Spellbreaker Break Enchantments — Meditation
    3. Deadeye Shadow Flare — Cantrip
    4. Elementalist Glyph of Elemental Power — Glyph
    5. Mesmer  Phantasmal Defender — Phantasm

    And other utilities which provide a similar effect like Assassin's Signet should get the same treatment.

    @Shroud.2307 said:
    And lastly, Smoke Scale's merged skill, Smoke Assault, needs one of two changes;
    Range reduced to 350, or give it a cast time.
    Right now it has double the range of Unrelenting Assault, no cast time, and can be enhanced with "Sic Em!" to deal nearly as much damage, on less than double the recharge.

    Those skills and pets are fine not only the class does not need a nerf there but it would need more pets to have the same type of utility skills (teleport / leaps, evades, etc...). The ranger in general needs better designed pets it is it's main mechanics and it shows very clearly it has not being taken care of.

  • Shroud.2307Shroud.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2020

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    Your suggestions are pretty close to be good but clearly don't play with ranger which shows.

    BoonBeast is not a thing anymore. It is very difficult to keep up the boon uptime although the Soulbeast can have a some moments where it can get a burst of boons.
    The main culprit of the efficiency of the tanky builds is the Axe Mainhand. That weapon does too much damage compared with the range and utility bought (weakness + chilled) . Without that weapon the tanky builds would be just that, tanky builds.

    Maybe I misunderstand what you're saying, but I have many ( over 4k ) hours on Ranger, and it is my second oldest character approaching its 7th birthday.
    I've also fought many, many, many Rangers.

    Boonbeast is still a thing. It's less faceroll, but still forgiving. There is actually a core Ranger version of the Boonbeast build that is even more tanky and with better Condition cleanse, but slightly less damage.
    Longbow Boonbeast has never been as good as the GS + X (typically full melee or with Axe mainhand) variant, but it is still plenty strong. I know of a particular player who uses a Boon build with GS + Longbow and is absurdly tanky despite also dealing very heavy damage. I don't know what his armor is, but I'm assuming a mixture of Marauder and Commander or Diviner + Durability runes.

    I want to be clear that I really don't care whether it does or doesn't get nerfed, it's in a much better place than it used to be. I just like to discuss balance when threads like these come up because often times people ask for blanket nerfs without considering how it affects the role of the class or the balance of the class as a whole.
    I appreciate your input, although I don't agree with all of it, but I do 110% agree with this-

    The ranger in general needs better designed pets it is it's main mechanics and it shows very clearly it has not being taken care of.

    Ranger is in serious need of pet rebalancing because only a handful are useful, while the rest have skill recharges and effects that are relics of pre-expansions. Smoke Scale is waaayy too good compared to the rest of the pets, and I think many of them should be brought more in line with the versatility of Smoke Scale, rather than nerfing Smoke Scale if any changes to pets were to be made.

    Necro/Engi/Ranger/Rev | Maguuma | Diamond Legend
    [YWY] Weeping Valley | [xo] Fantasies
    My Youtube: Shroud
    "I'd rather lose playing something I enjoy than win playing something I don't."

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 28, 2020

    @Shroud.2307 said:
    Maybe I misunderstand what you're saying, but I have many ( over 4k ) hours on Ranger, and it is my second oldest character approaching its 7th birthday.
    I've also fought many, many, many Rangers.

    I misunderstood you then, my apologies. We are in similar tier (just over 5K hours) mostly in WvW (which is seen in the amount of deaths i have) , same my second oldest character just passed the 7th birthday.

    @Shroud.2307 said:
    Boonbeast is still a thing. It's less faceroll, but still forgiving. There is actually a core Ranger version of the Boonbeast build that is even more tanky and with better Condition cleanse, but slightly less damage.
    Longbow Boonbeast has never been as good as the GS + X (typically full melee or with Axe mainhand) variant, but it is still plenty strong. I know of a particular player who uses a Boon build with GS + Longbow and is absurdly tanky despite also dealing very heavy damage. I don't know what his armor is, but I'm assuming a mixture of Marauder and Commander or Diviner + Durability runes.

    Well so we agree GS + Axe main hand, and Axe mainhand is used because of the easy access to might. Axe mainhand + We heal as One can keep perma 25 might which makes the autos in that setup to deal 3-4K. Full melee is not seen anymore in soulbeast, some core may use it as nostalgia build and for the extra mobility from sword.

    Core is not a boon beast, Core has always (from the buff to the shout) been able to build for perma boon uptime with NM + BM ( bouncing boons to the pet and duplicate them with the shout) + WS for cleanses. We never had a problem with that one because a RF could deal max 4K, and i'm talking about core no sicem soulbeast.

    Boonbeast was the Soulbeast variant, same tankiness but with much more burst potential. It made use of Fresh Reinforcement to replace NM traitline. That is not a thing anymore thou i don't remember which was the nerf which cause this.

    The build you are talking about is this one: Marauder armor + Commander trinkets + durability runes. BM + WS + SB. It takes advantage of the might stacking from Axe Autos to deal constant damage (can keep 25 stacks of might almost constantly ) , GS is to boost Wintersbite (Maul for the buff and swap very 30 seconds) . Winterbite can deal more damage than a maul that way, ranged AoE which also apply chill and weakness. Durability runes are the main reason of the bulkiness of that build, 10% extra HP + protection + resistance every 20s. Put that together with WS and you have that extra tankiness. Which would be fine if the objective is to be tanky.

    But still that build can deal a good amount of damage and the reason of that is because of the constant 3-4K autos (plus all the condi as extra) because of the 25 might. Obviously once you have 25 might and Fury even an RF will deal a good amount of damage.

    I still think removing the might from the Axe autos and maybe reduce the buff duration to 5s from the Maul (Although i personally would remove it altogether) would be enough.

  • Must be wary of nerfing core ranger weapons.
    On the pet note i must say they are nearly all due for an overhaul. Smokescale has seen multiple nerfs but is still a top tier pet. Close to 90 percent of pets go unused because their skillsets are from 2012(at the least). It is no wonder people wanted a way for rangers to drop the pet.

  • @whoknocks.4935 said:

    @spankyed.4735 said:
    Another crying player who doesnt know how to evade LB burst! Soulbeasts have been nerfed alrdy !
    P.S nerf soulbeasts roaming potential and u can completely remove rangers from WvW!

    That would be fine to me, seeing unskilled players able to kill you because hard carried by a low risk high reward build is never good, same faith for condi heralds and granade scrappers/holos.

    Unskilled players kill? If you aren’t a skilled player you aren’t going to kill anyone that has skill. I eat most rangers of any flavour if they aren’t real good. I’m not the best player by far but I know my class very well. Oh ya, I play soulbeast exclusively. My fave thing is to plow down other rangers who give experienced rangers a bad name. Anyone can learn to do burst damage, and anyone can learn how to deal with it. The key is knowing when to hit and when to duuuck.

    My personal favourite is when someone ganks me from behind but I still manage to hit invul. That few seconds usually gets them killed because, well, they’re on cool down.

    My squads keep me IN because I run some share and get tons of downs, but it makes me insane to see how many people use this class without USING IT properly!

    Just another WvW lifer who'll never say die... while dying again and again!

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2020

    Cut down (or flat out remove) all of those multiplicative bonuses the Beastmastery and Soulbeast traitlines give to a soulbeast and buff core ranger damage. Core ranger damage is sufficiently pathetic that anything shy of bruiser-based builds is subpar in today's roaming meta.

    As for Soulbeasts that press sic 'em & rapid fire... their rotation is literally the most predictable thing in the game, making even rifle deadeye look high-skill.

    Druids are annoying with the roots but don't actually kill anything on their own -- unless you have literally 0 cleanses and they're allowed to ramp up those bleeds. IMO that spec needs a rework involving the reduction of immobilize applications, but whenever I bring it up Druid mains (all three of them) cry.

    Also, since we're comparing lengths, 8k hours on ranger here. o/

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger, Necromancer, Fort Aspenwood.

  • Shroud.2307Shroud.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2020

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    Cut down (or flat out remove) all of those multiplicative bonuses the Beastmastery and Soulbeast traitlines give to a soulbeast and buff core ranger damage. Core ranger damage is sufficiently pathetic that anything shy of bruiser-based builds is subpar in today's roaming meta.

    As for Soulbeasts that press sic 'em & rapid fire... their rotation is literally the most predictable thing in the game, making even rifle deadeye look high-skill.

    Druids are annoying with the roots but don't actually kill anything on their own -- unless you have literally 0 cleanses and they're allowed to ramp up those bleeds. IMO that spec needs a rework involving the reduction of immobilize applications, but whenever I bring it up Druid mains (all three of them) cry.

    Also, since we're comparing lengths, 8k hours on ranger here. o/

    ~ Kovu

    Only issue I see with that is that Soulbeast and Ranger become too similar, and they're already not very different. I think it makes sense for Soulbeast to be the high damage spec, it's just that the utility it has is superior to core as well which makes it almost a complete upgrade.

    In my opinion, all Ranger pets need to be reviewed and the changes I listed earlier in this thread need to go through for Soulbeast. Then Soulbeast could get some small damage buffs here and there, be it Condition stacks/durations or coefficients. That way it can have the identity of being a heavy damage dealer (similar to Warrior -> Berserker or Necromancer -> Reaper) without inadvertently buffing it by changing any of the trait lines.

    As for core, I think buffs should be mostly targeted at pets (even if that also benefits Soulbeast) because core can use two. Maybe even reworking a trait in Beast Mastery to work similarly to Zephyr's Speed that grants some of kind of effect on pet swap.
    Core Ranger can still do quite a lot of damage if you're glassy. And if you're not, it is a very good duelist/outnumbered fighter. As I'd said, there is a boon core build that is astoundingly tanky, even compared to the pre-nerf Soulbeast version, and it isn't the only bruiser build core can use effectively. I think it's just rare that anyone sees them because 99.9% of Rangers would rather go Soulbeast because it's easy mode.

    Necro/Engi/Ranger/Rev | Maguuma | Diamond Legend
    [YWY] Weeping Valley | [xo] Fantasies
    My Youtube: Shroud
    "I'd rather lose playing something I enjoy than win playing something I don't."

  • nooppee! /char20

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2020

    @Shroud.2307 said:

    @Kovu.7560 said:
    Cut down (or flat out remove) all of those multiplicative bonuses the Beastmastery and Soulbeast traitlines give to a soulbeast and buff core ranger damage. Core ranger damage is sufficiently pathetic that anything shy of bruiser-based builds is subpar in today's roaming meta.

    As for Soulbeasts that press sic 'em & rapid fire... their rotation is literally the most predictable thing in the game, making even rifle deadeye look high-skill.

    Druids are annoying with the roots but don't actually kill anything on their own -- unless you have literally 0 cleanses and they're allowed to ramp up those bleeds. IMO that spec needs a rework involving the reduction of immobilize applications, but whenever I bring it up Druid mains (all three of them) cry.

    Also, since we're comparing lengths, 8k hours on ranger here. o/

    ~ Kovu

    Only issue I see with that is that Soulbeast and Ranger become too similar, and they're already not very different. I think it makes sense for Soulbeast to be the high damage spec, it's just that the utility it has is superior to core as well which makes it almost a complete upgrade.

    I'm happy to see most agree about the pets feeling atrocious to play with, and we all agree is about the utility brought for core and soulbeast and the point they can't stick to moving targets being the smokescale the only pet which can hit targets more or less consistently. Trying to nerf the smoke will do nothing as the pet is already barebone, it does no real damage (autos around 350 no crits) and assault i think is about 2K. Ranger definitely needs a rework of most of the pets.

    If we are talking about damage multipliers i agree Soulbeast has access to many, maybe too many. I did comment once a possitive change for soulbeast would be to move the GM Oppressive Superiority to replace Furious Strength as minor. Furious strength is a almost permanent extra multiplier which works while the soulbeast is merged and while is not and that is a direct upgrade over core.
    In my opinion removing that and making the multipliers to be more situational (in this case only when soulbeast has more hp than the target) would diminish somehow all the accumulative multipliers. Also it would be a 7% damage nerf.

    It is my opinion GMs should allow us to pick the Soulbeast skill F3 and Archetype , as that would solve all the issues with pet selection regarding the archetype skill related to them, like for example there is not Spiritual Reprieve F3 in the Moa family when that combination would be great for a support build. The same happens to Wolf the pet most used for pvp in the core days now linked to a Primal Cry (condition) when by the F2 effects (CC) would be better suited as Prelude Slash.
    Eternal bond can be deleted from the game it has no real uses in PvP or PVE for being very situational and underwhelming. Leader of the pack could be moved to master and Essence of Speed replace Fresh Reinforcement while Fresh Reinforcement merged with Elevated Bond.

    I personally would fusion the archetypes so we end up with three: Ferocious + Deadly, Stout+Versatile and Supportive + Versatile nerfing the extra stats to 100 each so the extra stats make sense and depending on your GM you get that archetype independently of the pet. Less complications for the future as Devs can focus solely on the new pets.
    Also i would merge the effects: Worldly Impact + Primal Cry, Prelude Lash + Unflinching Fortitude and Spiritual Reprieve + some AoE cleanses. Normalize all the CD to 40s ( nerf to Worldly , Primal Cry and Prelude Lash) in all Soulbeast F3 skills and nerf a bit the secondary skill ( Remove the pulsing effects from primal cry but buff the amount of burst condition in that singel application , reduce the immunity to 2s in Unflinching Fortitude) .

    That would make better sense with the limitation of only having one pet while in soulbeast mode, There is no point now to have so many archetypes/separated effects and it makes the class feel very clunky at times. If you go for hybrid build you can not get the right Soulbeast skills / archetype for example.

    But that is just my opinion on how i would make soulbeast a more enjoyable class to play with.

  • So annoying, even more that soulbeast is just pure upgrade to core.
    If we truly want to call it "elite spec that changes how you play the class", it should be something like this:
    Soulbeast loses the skills F1-F4(pet control call) and ability to merge with pet on demand and the pet itself.
    Their second weapon is replaced by the skills of chosen pet, meaning that Soulbeast would be only able to wield e.g. Greatsword and skills of chosen beast like Tiger or whatever.
    Skills F1-F4 could be something like Guardians Virtues e.g. F1 - Predator Privilege - Passive: Outgoing beast skills damage is increased by 10%. Active: Reveal in 600 range radius and increase attack speed by 15% for 6s, cd 40s.
    1-5 of Beast(second weapon slot) skills would be 1 standard attack set, 2-3 special pet attacks, 4-5 family pet skills.
    But yea, not gonna happen.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Soulbeast is not as oppressive as they were before.

    They used to threaten both melee and far ranged opponents, but after several nerfs to their kit and Worldly Impact, they can no longer combat Melee builds with high sticking power.

    Just play Soulbeast against Power Herald, Core Warrior/Spellbreaker or Power Thief.

    They are put into the dirt pretty easily.

    The best Soulbeasts I've fought in WvW are turned into babies with any build which can stick to them in melee range, forcing them to retreat into allied structures.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Sleepwalker.1398Sleepwalker.1398 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2020

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    That idea sounds interesting but then other classes in the game with an skill which gives a plain damage modifier should get the same treatment. List a followed:

    1. Mesmer  Phantasmal Defender — Phantasm

    I hardly think anyone in wvw uses this.

    *quote

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They should rework all skills that piggyback damage onto other skills like one wolf pack, impossible odds and virtue of justice. They went on a warpath against raw damage but didn't address these for some reason.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • reddie.5861reddie.5861 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @asterix.9614 said:
    I have been roaming as a soulbeast for a month now, just to see why people were complaining about it so much. Jeebus, it's op, insane ranged damage, stealth field and stealth, really good condi cleanse and heal and able to traverse very long distances with gs and bird pet. I am not requesting a nerf for druid or core however no doubt if soulbeast was nerfed core would probably be affected as well. I think when it comes to utility skill the main problem is sic em, one wolf pack and entangle. The lb skill 2 is just stupidly op and smokescale smoke field and the soulbeast skill 2 is just stupid, it's like having a pocket rev/ thief. In terms of trait I found opressive superiority to be a tad op for something that weilds a long ranged high dps long bow. Anyway, yes most of the rangers in wvw are noobs, but ranger really needs a good looking at.
    I know I will get hate and get good comments, I personally don't care. I have taken the time to actually play soulbeast for a whole month and I am just giving my "findings".

    the thing is, i cant disagree with u cus your right. but when i play different class and faced a soulbeast i didnt really have big problems dealing with em.
    yes i can understand picking off people at right spot and using terain in ur advantage etc will make ranger OP as kitten.
    but when facing one with a brain he will make ur life alot harder.

    tbh i think SLB isnt as bad as u mention here if u face people who know how to play only thing that is insane OP is one wolf pack. this whole skill need be changed or nerfed hard.

  • Dolyak stance should just give protection rather than a direct damage reduction so that it doesn't stack like it does now.

    OWP should not crit.

    Sic'em and Attack of Opportunity should only be 10% damage modifiers for the Soulbeast.

    Beyond that and you start to cut into core, but applying negative stats to the merged form based on pet archetype would go a long way in balancing Soulbeast without hurting core.

    Getting 100% protection uptime on ranger is not hard btw. This is magnified on Soulbeast, and would be the one part of core that would be justified in nerfing to address Soulbeast.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2020

    @bigo.9037 said:
    people, you have no excuse for dying to sicem meme rangers. you have mounts and build templates. swap to full nomads and mobility before you reach your squad. it’s literally 2 buttons. git gud.

    also, just stop running around with 2300 armor, maybe? if you run THAT squishy you have 0 right to complain about being 1shot.

    sicem ranger is no longer unblockable. block rapidfire and they have only melee, so kite them. now they have nothing. it’s so easy i can’t even remember the last time i died to sicem ranger.

    boonbeast GS- LB is way stronger but it won’t kill you in 2s. NM variant with sw-wh is just kinda.. meh? they can’t really hurt you unless you let them. WS - BM is where it’s at. skirmish + BM with quickdraw also works but it isn’t as strong as WS. boonbeast can currently be very tanky and deal decent dmg at the same time, BUT , it has 0 mobility outside of stealth. and if you play bird, you don’t have stealth other than LB.

    also i don’t really see how people are getting facerolled by noob rangers? they play like garbage. it’s not hard to beat. you are either playing too squish or they are just better than you think they are.

    dolyak stance is definitely a “”problem”” if you want to nerf soulbeast, but if you do nerf soulbeast significantly we will just go back to being useless in blobs, useless in roaming, useless in pvp.

    Yes that's why the nerfs have to be very sensible at this point. It is not that the soulbeast needs more nerfs it is just there are some outliers which could become problematic if the soulbeast would get any buffs. Glass sicem soulbeast is fine compared to other glass dps builds and the only issue i see is on the tanky BM-WS build doing so much damage with Axe mainhand. There is an spot in this game for glass dps builds and we are going to have to deal with it.

    I don't see Doylak problematic or unbalanced but just over bloated. The stance was fine before the buff and it didn't need more effects as it makes the Soulbeast to be forced to use that skill yes or yes (even with the nerf in sPVP with 60s CD the skill is still widely used ) .

    I would move the damage reduction from Doylak to Bear and reduce the CD of dowlak to 40s in sPvP which kinda makes better sense.

    Doylak is the "Counter-CC" stance, While Bear is the "Sustain" stance.
    And One Wolf Pack is the "Power" stance as such is fine like it is as power damage boost. Although my opinion it would be better if OWP would apply splash damage around the target up to 2 additional foes and divide the current damage between the amount of foes so they would get up 1/3 of the original damage each as a counter play and to make that elite more flexible.

    On the underwhelming side we have:
    Moa is the "Boon" stance which means it is fine providing extra boon duration and protection/fury/regeneration. Just needs to increase boon duration 33% instead 20% in PvP and WvW as the current 20% does not feel valuable enough because the ranger has access to such short boon duration.
    Griffon is the "Evade" stance as such is only missing an additional stun break so it is a real option.
    Vulture is the "Condi" stance as such it only misses to additionally apply bleeds to be valuable.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:
    people, you have no excuse for dying to sicem meme rangers. you have mounts and build templates. swap to full nomads and mobility before you reach your squad. it’s literally 2 buttons. git gud.

    also, just stop running around with 2300 armor, maybe? if you run THAT squishy you have 0 right to complain about being 1shot.

    sicem ranger is no longer unblockable. block rapidfire and they have only melee, so kite them. now they have nothing. it’s so easy i can’t even remember the last time i died to sicem ranger.

    boonbeast GS- LB is way stronger but it won’t kill you in 2s. NM variant with sw-wh is just kinda.. meh? they can’t really hurt you unless you let them. WS - BM is where it’s at. skirmish + BM with quickdraw also works but it isn’t as strong as WS. boonbeast can currently be very tanky and deal decent dmg at the same time, BUT , it has 0 mobility outside of stealth. and if you play bird, you don’t have stealth other than LB.

    also i don’t really see how people are getting facerolled by noob rangers? they play like garbage. it’s not hard to beat. you are either playing too squish or they are just better than you think they are.

    dolyak stance is definitely a “”problem”” if you want to nerf soulbeast, but if you do nerf soulbeast significantly we will just go back to being useless in blobs, useless in roaming, useless in pvp.

    imagine spending 800 gems (500+300 for templates) to not get shot by a sic 'm soulbeast
    that's some solid advice

  • complaining about pewpew in dec 2021????

    Excluding the time travel, I completely agree here. I run a glassy roaming spec that relies on building Protection, and if I get one shotted (and I have!) it's b/c I wasn't paying attention. SB gimmick is at most a stunbreak and dodge away from negated. The Sic 'Em build is only for the canon campers praying for kills.

  • I agree. Its way overpowered for its range. Wvw is so unbalanced with the 1shot rangers. And people know it thats why alot of people are running around on it.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2020

    @melandru.3876 said:
    a squad weaver (that is berserker with some pieces of marauder) uses staff
    not everything in wvw is a roamer, despite the fact that these "roamers" see it so

    There is no "squad weaver" builds, you must be playing on some forgotten NA server with squad Weavers doing only God knows what and Support Soulbeasts instead Firebrands. Naturally you will end up doing a lot of return trips to the squad which takes us to the next point.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    what are the types that often get pew pew'd? players doing dailies, or people returning to squad.

    I don't see what has to do the build "squad weaver" with "people returning to squad" or "players doing dailies". Either way if you get pewpew'd out of your mount that is per game design as counter play to mounts that's why they have so little hp. Again what you are describing are L2P issues and asking the game to adapt to what you want instead understanding and learning the game mechanics.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    a squad weaver (that is berserker with some pieces of marauder) uses staff
    not everything in wvw is a roamer, despite the fact that these "roamers" see it so

    There is no "squad weaver" builds, you must be playing on some forgotten NA server with squad Weavers doing only God knows what and Support Soulbeasts instead Firebrands. Naturally you will end up doing a lot of return trips to the squad which takes us to the next point.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    what are the types that often get pew pew'd? players doing dailies, or people returning to squad.

    I don't see what has to do the build "squad weaver" with "people returning to squad" or "players doing dailies". Either way if you get pewpew'd out of your mount that is per game design as counter play to mounts that's why they have so little hp. Again what you are describing are L2P issues and asking the game to adapt what you want instead understanding and learning the game mechanics.

    iroically you are the soulbeast main who created dozens of topic trying to make soulbeast work in wvw (squad play, and yes weaver is the highest dps option)
    "asking the game to adapt what you want" is literally you, in all said above threads crying for fixes and buffs
    i'm done here, it was a good laugh

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2020

    @melandru.3876 said:
    iroically you are the soulbeast main who created dozens of topic trying to make soulbeast work in wvw (squad play, and yes weaver is the highest dps option)
    "asking the game to adapt what you want" is literally you, in all said above threads crying for fixes and buffs

    I'm asking for changes (sometimes buffs other times nerfs) on the classes i play and you are asking for nerfs on anything you don't like and neither know or understand.
    Learn the difference.

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    a squad weaver (that is berserker with some pieces of marauder) uses staff
    not everything in wvw is a roamer, despite the fact that these "roamers" see it so

    There is no "squad weaver" builds, you must be playing on some forgotten NA server with squad Weavers doing only God knows what and Support Soulbeasts instead Firebrands. Naturally you will end up doing a lot of return trips to the squad which takes us to the next point.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    what are the types that often get pew pew'd? players doing dailies, or people returning to squad.

    I don't see what has to do the build "squad weaver" with "people returning to squad" or "players doing dailies". Either way if you get pewpew'd out of your mount that is per game design as counter play to mounts that's why they have so little hp. Again what you are describing are L2P issues and asking the game to adapt what you want instead understanding and learning the game mechanics.

    iroically you are the soulbeast main who created dozens of topic trying to make soulbeast work in wvw (squad play, and yes weaver is the highest dps option)
    "asking the game to adapt what you want" is literally you, in all said above threads crying for fixes and buffs
    i'm done here, it was a good laugh

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    a squad weaver (that is berserker with some pieces of marauder) uses staff
    not everything in wvw is a roamer, despite the fact that these "roamers" see it so

    There is no "squad weaver" builds, you must be playing on some forgotten NA server with squad Weavers doing only God knows what and Support Soulbeasts instead Firebrands. Naturally you will end up doing a lot of return trips to the squad which takes us to the next point.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    what are the types that often get pew pew'd? players doing dailies, or people returning to squad.

    I don't see what has to do the build "squad weaver" with "people returning to squad" or "players doing dailies". Either way if you get pewpew'd out of your mount that is per game design as counter play to mounts that's why they have so little hp. Again what you are describing are L2P issues and asking the game to adapt what you want instead understanding and learning the game mechanics.

    iroically you are the soulbeast main who created dozens of topic trying to make soulbeast work in wvw (squad play, and yes weaver is the highest dps option)
    "asking the game to adapt what you want" is literally you, in all said above threads crying for fixes and buffs
    i'm done here, it was a good laugh

    m8 you’re playing with berserker stats and complaining about get pewpew’d.... like i said, either stop being silly enough to play zerk and not expect to get 1shot, stop running towards squad alone with no allies, or do like i said and get a second gear set for template so you can get to your squad on tankier stats and press 1 button to swap back to zerk.
    you seem to be the only person here who has a problem .

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    iroically you are the soulbeast main who created dozens of topic trying to make soulbeast work in wvw (squad play, and yes weaver is the highest dps option)
    "asking the game to adapt what you want" is literally you, in all said above threads crying for fixes and buffs

    I'm asking for changes (sometimes buffs other times nerfs) on the classes i play and you are asking for nerfs on anything you don't like and neither know or understand.
    Learn the difference.

    show me where i ask for a nerf
    i await your quote

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 30, 2020

    Sure my pleasure.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    because templates are obviously used for other aspects
    but no, lets force a player to hamster yet another gearset, get some extra templates to not get sniped by a soulbeast

    play weaver for once instead of your soulbeast, then perhaps then we can have a decent talk

    @melandru.3876 said:
    all "bunkers" are fine, just decap druid is bs

    immobilize
    immobilize
    immobilize
    point blank shot
    immobilize
    point blank shot
    immobilize

    i just give up the node, and take their close

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1395580#Comment_1395580

    happy now?
    Now i'm done with you.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    iroically you are the soulbeast main who created dozens of topic trying to make soulbeast work in wvw (squad play, and yes weaver is the highest dps option)
    "asking the game to adapt what you want" is literally you, in all said above threads crying for fixes and buffs

    I'm asking for changes (sometimes buffs other times nerfs) on the classes i play and you are asking for nerfs on anything you don't like and neither know or understand.
    Learn the difference.

    show me where i ask for a nerf
    i await your quote

    Sure my pleasure, the ones in the first page of the subforum.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/120143/nerfs-the-ranger-class-as-a-whole-needs-please-anet
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/109880/druids-need-the-pets-to-have-returned-the-20-stats-druids-shouldnt-have-access-to-pets-actives
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/109878/trait-ancient-seeds-needs-to-be-deleted-from-the-game-asap-perma-immob-ranger
    Happy now?

    o......k........?

    first) i'm in none of these threads
    second) i didn't ask for a nerf, ever
    third) what is actually your point?

    i reply to a guy which, to me, was one of the most dumbest suggestions i have ever read (who is willing to spend 800 gemsworth of templates , and a full equipmen just to return to his squad?)

    it is you, soulbeast mains who band together and try to defend your class.
    that alone says enough

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I knew you were expecting my answer and wouldn't give me time to correct the post (i understood me asking for nerfs)
    There you have:

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    Sure my pleasure.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    because templates are obviously used for other aspects
    but no, lets force a player to hamster yet another gearset, get some extra templates to not get sniped by a soulbeast

    play weaver for once instead of your soulbeast, then perhaps then we can have a decent talk

    @melandru.3876 said:
    all "bunkers" are fine, just decap druid is bs

    immobilize
    immobilize
    immobilize
    point blank shot
    immobilize
    point blank shot
    immobilize

    i just give up the node, and take their close

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1395580#Comment_1395580

    happy now?
    Now i'm done with you.

    Quick search no even looking seriously.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    I knew you were expecting my answer and wouldn't give me time to correct the post (i understood me asking for nerfs)
    There you have:

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    Sure my pleasure.

    @melandru.3876 said:
    because templates are obviously used for other aspects
    but no, lets force a player to hamster yet another gearset, get some extra templates to not get sniped by a soulbeast

    play weaver for once instead of your soulbeast, then perhaps then we can have a decent talk

    @melandru.3876 said:
    all "bunkers" are fine, just decap druid is bs

    immobilize
    immobilize
    immobilize
    point blank shot
    immobilize
    point blank shot
    immobilize

    i just give up the node, and take their close

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1395580#Comment_1395580

    happy now?
    Now i'm done with you.

    Quick search no even looking seriously.

    and where do i ask for a nerf?
    i literally say in the same (very short) post how to outplay it. he can have our close, i'll just sit on his then and nothing changes.
    pvp is won by rotations and map awareness.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    iroically you are the soulbeast main who created dozens of topic trying to make soulbeast work in wvw (squad play, and yes weaver is the highest dps option)
    "asking the game to adapt what you want" is literally you, in all said above threads crying for fixes and buffs

    I'm asking for changes (sometimes buffs other times nerfs) on the classes i play and you are asking for nerfs on anything you don't like and neither know or understand.
    Learn the difference.

    show me where i ask for a nerf
    i await your quote

    Sure my pleasure, the ones in the first page of the subforum.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/120143/nerfs-the-ranger-class-as-a-whole-needs-please-anet
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/109880/druids-need-the-pets-to-have-returned-the-20-stats-druids-shouldnt-have-access-to-pets-actives
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/109878/trait-ancient-seeds-needs-to-be-deleted-from-the-game-asap-perma-immob-ranger
    Happy now?

    o......k........?

    first) i'm in none of these threads
    second) i didn't ask for a nerf, ever
    third) what is actually your point?

    i reply to a guy which, to me, was one of the most dumbest suggestions i have ever read (who is willing to spend 800 gemsworth of templates , and a full equipmen just to return to his squad?)

    it is you, soulbeast mains who band together and try to defend your class.
    that alone says enough

    no dude, you’re deflecting and refusing all the advice we are giving you. as someone who has played the pewpew full zerk sicem build multiple times, swapped back and forth, ik exactly how to counter it and deal with it. stunbreak, evade, block, teleport. you’re safe.

    if you already are using both templates and both of them are full zerk, excuse me but kitten are you doing??? i’m not telling you to buy new template, but if you’re not utilizing both templates and only play full zerk you really have no valid against 1shots as you’re 100% asking for it, because you can dish out just as much dmg as soulbeast, except in aoe rather than single target.

    it’s just crazy to me. sicem burst used to be WAYYYYY worse and WAYYY more OP. it used to deal 40% extra dmg instead of 25%, it used be 4s unblockable every 10s. now power coefficients and flat dmg is reduced, no more unblockable, worse coefficients, 25% dmg increase. if you wanna play full friggin zerk, EXPECT to get 1shot and pewpewd.

    this might sound strange to you, but there are game modes outside of wvw
    different gear, different traits you know the drill

    i could however visit the bank first before i head into wvw. bank tabs are less then 800 gems so it could save me some gold. drop all my gear there then i can pick nomad stats

    solid advice afterall

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @bigo.9037 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @melandru.3876 said:
    iroically you are the soulbeast main who created dozens of topic trying to make soulbeast work in wvw (squad play, and yes weaver is the highest dps option)
    "asking the game to adapt what you want" is literally you, in all said above threads crying for fixes and buffs

    I'm asking for changes (sometimes buffs other times nerfs) on the classes i play and you are asking for nerfs on anything you don't like and neither know or understand.
    Learn the difference.

    show me where i ask for a nerf
    i await your quote

    Sure my pleasure, the ones in the first page of the subforum.
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/120143/nerfs-the-ranger-class-as-a-whole-needs-please-anet
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/109880/druids-need-the-pets-to-have-returned-the-20-stats-druids-shouldnt-have-access-to-pets-actives
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/109878/trait-ancient-seeds-needs-to-be-deleted-from-the-game-asap-perma-immob-ranger
    Happy now?

    o......k........?

    first) i'm in none of these threads
    second) i didn't ask for a nerf, ever
    third) what is actually your point?

    i reply to a guy which, to me, was one of the most dumbest suggestions i have ever read (who is willing to spend 800 gemsworth of templates , and a full equipmen just to return to his squad?)

    it is you, soulbeast mains who band together and try to defend your class.
    that alone says enough

    no dude, you’re deflecting and refusing all the advice we are giving you. as someone who has played the pewpew full zerk sicem build multiple times, swapped back and forth, ik exactly how to counter it and deal with it. stunbreak, evade, block, teleport. you’re safe.

    if you already are using both templates and both of them are full zerk, excuse me but kitten are you doing??? i’m not telling you to buy new template, but if you’re not utilizing both templates and only play full zerk you really have no valid against 1shots as you’re 100% asking for it, because you can dish out just as much dmg as soulbeast, except in aoe rather than single target.

    it’s just crazy to me. sicem burst used to be WAYYYYY worse and WAYYY more OP. it used to deal 40% extra dmg instead of 25%, it used be 4s unblockable every 10s. now power coefficients and flat dmg is reduced, no more unblockable, worse coefficients, 25% dmg increase. if you wanna play full friggin zerk, EXPECT to get 1shot and pewpewd.

    this might sound strange to you, but there are game modes outside of wvw
    different gear, different traits you know the drill

    i could however visit the bank first before i head into wvw. bank tabs are less then 800 gems so it could save me some gold. drop all my gear there then i can pick nomad stats

    solid advice afterall

    you ask for advice but you don’t wanna listen. make fun of all our advice all you want, but you’re the only one here dying to noob stomper builds.

    obviously nomads is an exaggeration. get a set with around 2500 armor and sicem pewpew won’t harm you anymore. get the protection + stab cantrip utility and their dmg is basically gone. stop making all these excuses. again, make fun of my tips all you want, YOU’RE the one losing, dying and complaining on the forums, not me.