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WvW Soul beast needs a giant nerf!

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  • Shroud.2307Shroud.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2021

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Btw, on a completely unrelated comment, that scourge build he mentions isnt really good. May work against clueless pvers, and thats it. Who runs without stunbreaks or cleanses, anyway?

    Spectral Walk is a stunbreak and Cleanse. Consume Conditions is a full cleanse. Sigil of Cleansing removes 3. Putrid Mark removes 3. Nefarious Favor removes 2 on a low cooldown.

    And yes I agree it's bad. I share builds that I have fun with and that are good in their niche to hopefully inspire others to give it a try or to create ones of their own. I've shared lots of build threads in the past and almost every time I'll add a disclaimer that it isn't meta and will state its weaknesses so people know what they're getting themselves in to if they try it.

    I never said it was good, just that it's good at some things. Anything can steamroll clueless PVErs so I don't think that's much of a statement.

    I just want to remind people that not everyone who visits the forum are experienced veterans. There are a lot of people that read this and never comment. It is helpful to criticize things, but just saying "x thing is bad" is not. This is why we have a community of players that have 0 creativity. Because any time they experiment with something they're met with insults rather than criticisms like what you've just said-

    that scourge build he mentions isnt really good. May work against clueless pvers, and thats it.

    Very insightful.

    Necro/Engi/Ranger/Rev | Maguuma | Diamond Legend
    [YWY] Weeping Valley | [xo] Fantasies
    My Youtube: Shroud
    "I'd rather lose playing something I enjoy than win playing something I don't."

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shroud.2307 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Btw, on a completely unrelated comment, that scourge build he mentions isnt really good. May work against clueless pvers, and thats it. Who runs without stunbreaks or cleanses, anyway?

    Spectral Walk is a stunbreak and Cleanse. Consume Conditions is a full cleanse. Sigil of Cleansing removes 3. Putrid Mark removes 3. Nefarious Favor removes 2 on a low cooldown.

    And yes I agree it's bad. I share builds that I have fun with and that are good in their niche to hopefully inspire others to give it a try or to create ones of their own. I've shared lots of build threads in the past and almost every time I'll add a disclaimer that it isn't meta and will state its weaknesses so people know what they're getting themselves in to if they try it.

    I never said it was good, just that it's good at some things. Anything can steamroll clueless PVErs so I don't think that's much of a statement.

    I just want to remind people that not everyone who visits the forum are experienced veterans. There are a lot of people that read this and never comment. It is helpful to criticize things, but just saying "x thing is bad" is not. This is why we have a community of players that have 0 creativity. Because any time they experiment with something they're met with insults rather than criticisms like what you've just said-

    that scourge build he mentions isnt really good. May work against clueless pvers, and thats it.

    Very insightful.

    In my opinion, this is a bad build. People have offered you insight on another thread (most classes will just stunlock you or pewpew you from a distance), yet the reply is always the same: "no insight". Non meta builds can be great, i myself run offmeta builds but this one is just bad.
    Btw, you havent actually given the full build (correct me if i am mistaken). I imagine it is full trailblazer, some torment runes or necromancer runes or nightmare runes (or similar) with death 2-2-2, curses 1-3-2, scourge 2-2-1 or 2-2-2. Scepter-torch and staff. Either way, you have 3 fear skills, f4, staff 5 and spectral ring (all on high cd), you could run corrupt boon hoping to corrupt stab (into fear for terror to kick in), spectral walk (kinda bad since you desperately need lifeforce, so spectral armor may be better), or trail of anguish for another stunbreak. Assuming you take corrupt boon and spectral ring, you have ONE stunbreak. Good luck with that.
    Corrupting boons isnt this build's strong suit either. Scepter 3 and corrupt boon, plus any shade skills you use (but this is a shadeless build). So... Yeah.
    Conditions get mitigated nowadays from enemy roamers, as condirevs are abundant (and generally speaking, condiroamers arent a rarity). You boom condispike on a target? Cleanse, your main offenders (torment and burning) get cleansed and you dont really have the chance to reapply them fast enough, as scourge.
    What this build offers is tankiness. Warriors, rangers, reapers, corenecs, weavers, mirages, engies, thieves wont have an actual issue against this build.
    I hope this was insightful enough. I used to run a similar build when boonrip wasnt nerfed, with curses
    2-2-3 or 2-2-2, scourge 1-2-1 (boonsteals amd lifeforce management). This is obsolete, now.

  • Shroud.2307Shroud.2307 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Shroud.2307 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Btw, on a completely unrelated comment, that scourge build he mentions isnt really good. May work against clueless pvers, and thats it. Who runs without stunbreaks or cleanses, anyway?

    Spectral Walk is a stunbreak and Cleanse. Consume Conditions is a full cleanse. Sigil of Cleansing removes 3. Putrid Mark removes 3. Nefarious Favor removes 2 on a low cooldown.

    And yes I agree it's bad. I share builds that I have fun with and that are good in their niche to hopefully inspire others to give it a try or to create ones of their own. I've shared lots of build threads in the past and almost every time I'll add a disclaimer that it isn't meta and will state its weaknesses so people know what they're getting themselves in to if they try it.

    I never said it was good, just that it's good at some things. Anything can steamroll clueless PVErs so I don't think that's much of a statement.

    I just want to remind people that not everyone who visits the forum are experienced veterans. There are a lot of people that read this and never comment. It is helpful to criticize things, but just saying "x thing is bad" is not. This is why we have a community of players that have 0 creativity. Because any time they experiment with something they're met with insults rather than criticisms like what you've just said-

    that scourge build he mentions isnt really good. May work against clueless pvers, and thats it.

    Very insightful.

    In my opinion, this is a bad build. People have offered you insight on another thread (most classes will just stunlock you or pewpew you from a distance), yet the reply is always the same: "no insight". Non meta builds can be great, i myself run offmeta builds but this one is just bad.
    Btw, you havent actually given the full build (correct me if i am mistaken). I imagine it is full trailblazer, some torment runes or necromancer runes or nightmare runes (or similar) with death 2-2-2, curses 1-3-2, scourge 2-2-1 or 2-2-2. Scepter-torch and staff. Either way, you have 3 fear skills, f4, staff 5 and spectral ring (all on high cd), you could run corrupt boon hoping to corrupt stab (into fear for terror to kick in), spectral walk (kinda bad since you desperately need lifeforce, so spectral armor may be better), or trail of anguish for another stunbreak. Assuming you take corrupt boon and spectral ring, you have ONE stunbreak. Good luck with that.
    Corrupting boons isnt this build's strong suit either. Scepter 3 and corrupt boon, plus any shade skills you use (but this is a shadeless build). So... Yeah.
    Conditions get mitigated nowadays from enemy roamers, as condirevs are abundant (and generally speaking, condiroamers arent a rarity). You boom condispike on a target? Cleanse, your main offenders (torment and burning) get cleansed and you dont really have the chance to reapply them fast enough, as scourge.
    What this build offers is tankiness. Warriors, rangers, reapers, corenecs, weavers, mirages, engies, thieves wont have an actual issue against this build.
    I hope this was insightful enough. I used to run a similar build when boonrip wasnt nerfed, with curses
    2-2-3 or 2-2-2, scourge 1-2-1 (boonsteals amd lifeforce management). This is obsolete, now.

    That is a better explanation, most of which I agree.

    It frustrates me when people come in to those threads just to say the build is bad, so I defend myself as necessary. X thing will roflstomp you is a criticism and advice, but it isn't very constructive either. You could say that about an entire class in some cases, never mind specific builds.

    I suppose I should just stop making build threads since this is about 99% of the types of comments I get. Often times I agree when someone points out a serious flaw, but again, it is rarely constructive.
    I just want to be able to share things I'm proud of and to discuss; ways to improve the build, to hear about similar builds other people have run, and to learn about or focus on underused things (be it trait, utility, stat, etc.) to see how flexible they can be.

    The builds' strong suit is aggression, like I'd said in the thread. I also said it doesn't have many Corrupts, so you're correct. It has many weaknesses, but not every build needs to have a 90% rate of success to be fun. I just don't think I'll ever get why that's so hard for some people to grasp is all.

    Necro/Engi/Ranger/Rev | Maguuma | Diamond Legend
    [YWY] Weeping Valley | [xo] Fantasies
    My Youtube: Shroud
    "I'd rather lose playing something I enjoy than win playing something I don't."

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shroud.2307 said:
    It frustrates me when people come in to those threads just to say the build is bad, so I defend myself as necessary. X thing will roflstomp you is a criticism and advice, but it isn't very constructive either. You could say that about an entire class in some cases, never mind specific builds.

    Don't take it personally, my opinion is this thread is not about scourge builds so it's understable some peeps may have a contrarian opinion.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shroud.2307 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:

    @Shroud.2307 said:

    @Voltekka.2375 said:
    Btw, on a completely unrelated comment, that scourge build he mentions isnt really good. May work against clueless pvers, and thats it. Who runs without stunbreaks or cleanses, anyway?

    Spectral Walk is a stunbreak and Cleanse. Consume Conditions is a full cleanse. Sigil of Cleansing removes 3. Putrid Mark removes 3. Nefarious Favor removes 2 on a low cooldown.

    And yes I agree it's bad. I share builds that I have fun with and that are good in their niche to hopefully inspire others to give it a try or to create ones of their own. I've shared lots of build threads in the past and almost every time I'll add a disclaimer that it isn't meta and will state its weaknesses so people know what they're getting themselves in to if they try it.

    I never said it was good, just that it's good at some things. Anything can steamroll clueless PVErs so I don't think that's much of a statement.

    I just want to remind people that not everyone who visits the forum are experienced veterans. There are a lot of people that read this and never comment. It is helpful to criticize things, but just saying "x thing is bad" is not. This is why we have a community of players that have 0 creativity. Because any time they experiment with something they're met with insults rather than criticisms like what you've just said-

    that scourge build he mentions isnt really good. May work against clueless pvers, and thats it.

    Very insightful.

    In my opinion, this is a bad build. People have offered you insight on another thread (most classes will just stunlock you or pewpew you from a distance), yet the reply is always the same: "no insight". Non meta builds can be great, i myself run offmeta builds but this one is just bad.
    Btw, you havent actually given the full build (correct me if i am mistaken). I imagine it is full trailblazer, some torment runes or necromancer runes or nightmare runes (or similar) with death 2-2-2, curses 1-3-2, scourge 2-2-1 or 2-2-2. Scepter-torch and staff. Either way, you have 3 fear skills, f4, staff 5 and spectral ring (all on high cd), you could run corrupt boon hoping to corrupt stab (into fear for terror to kick in), spectral walk (kinda bad since you desperately need lifeforce, so spectral armor may be better), or trail of anguish for another stunbreak. Assuming you take corrupt boon and spectral ring, you have ONE stunbreak. Good luck with that.
    Corrupting boons isnt this build's strong suit either. Scepter 3 and corrupt boon, plus any shade skills you use (but this is a shadeless build). So... Yeah.
    Conditions get mitigated nowadays from enemy roamers, as condirevs are abundant (and generally speaking, condiroamers arent a rarity). You boom condispike on a target? Cleanse, your main offenders (torment and burning) get cleansed and you dont really have the chance to reapply them fast enough, as scourge.
    What this build offers is tankiness. Warriors, rangers, reapers, corenecs, weavers, mirages, engies, thieves wont have an actual issue against this build.
    I hope this was insightful enough. I used to run a similar build when boonrip wasnt nerfed, with curses
    2-2-3 or 2-2-2, scourge 1-2-1 (boonsteals amd lifeforce management). This is obsolete, now.

    That is a better explanation, most of which I agree.

    It frustrates me when people come in to those threads just to say the build is bad, so I defend myself as necessary. X thing will roflstomp you is a criticism and advice, but it isn't very constructive either. You could say that about an entire class in some cases, never mind specific builds.

    I suppose I should just stop making build threads since this is about 99% of the types of comments I get. Often times I agree when someone points out a serious flaw, but again, it is rarely constructive.
    I just want to be able to share things I'm proud of and to discuss; ways to improve the build, to hear about similar builds other people have run, and to learn about or focus on underused things (be it trait, utility, stat, etc.) to see how flexible they can be.

    The builds' strong suit is aggression, like I'd said in the thread. I also said it doesn't have many Corrupts, so you're correct. It has many weaknesses, but not every build needs to have a 90% rate of success to be fun. I just don't think I'll ever get why that's so hard for some people to grasp is all.

    So... You want insight, but you dont like it? People point out flaws, suggest better things, get constructive, and yet... Theyre the problem? No.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Stopped briefly today to deposit materials in my inventory while talking to a friend, so obviously distracted by more important things in life, and a wild Soulbeast appeared:

    Oh look its the exact combo I talked about, OWP->PBS->RF (it was super effective). BTW I was down before I even closed my inventory. Not that I'm mad about it, its always the risk you run when you stop to manage your inventory. 2.4k defense and 25k HP. Not tanky, but not squishy either. Although this guy kitten his own damage by using quickness, still enough to down a warrior before the knockback from PBS wears off.

    Found it funny that this happened given this conversation is still going on.

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2021

    @bigo.9037 said:
    soo when a spellbreaker uses bullscharge followed by hundred blades that can deal a super high amount of dmg in a short time as well, with bullscharge being an evade which makes it very safe to pull off.

    you can’t just say hurrdur look at my dmg output on my friend who is standing still so i can test my dmg and expect decent players to take you seriously. there are plenty of builds that can be extremely oppressive as a +1 build, daredevil or core thief comes to mind. this is the ONLY WAY you can actually pull off those crazy numbers.

    as someone who does not use OWP, I don’t find it very strong. with how much stab and stunbreakers are out there, as well as general dmg denial, using both sicem utility AND your elite on a burst that you don’t know for 100% will land is just not a good idea.

    once again, if you’re getting farmed by 1 soulbeast, git gud, if there’s more than 1, you’re just out of position and should stop running around alone.

    if neither is happening to you, stop thinking AB Golem or my friend is standing afk here so i can test my dmg on a full burst while popping 1-2 utilities and my elite means ANYTHING.

    If a warrior uses bull's charge and HB all you have to do is stunbreak and walk forward and it does no damage lol. You don't even have to dodge.

    Also, RF hits for more damage with the vuln stacking (except for the final hit of HB, but if you take that you're either bad or running a bad build) with a shorter channel, is cast from 1500 units, and can be cast while moving.

    So yeah, not sure why you're comparing RF to HB and citing HB as OP when RF is literally stronger lol.
    That or you just don't know what the skills do with their respective splits cross-format and shouldn't be talking about balance.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Stopped briefly today to deposit materials in my inventory while talking to a friend, so obviously distracted by more important things in life, and a wild Soulbeast appeared:

    Oh look its the exact combo I talked about, OWP->PBS->RF (it was super effective). BTW I was down before I even closed my inventory. Not that I'm mad about it, its always the risk you run when you stop to manage your inventory. 2.4k defense and 25k HP. Not tanky, but not squishy either. Although this guy kitten his own damage by using quickness, still enough to down a warrior before the knockback from PBS wears off.

    Found it funny that this happened given this conversation is still going on.

    Ah i find funny we are still discussing this. First of those number seems to high for the current numbers, is it an screenshot pre-nerf to Sicem? . I haven't seen a 2K OWP from long time ago. Currently the skill pulls 1.2 - 1.5K in wvw maybe because the targets usually run tankier. In any case...

    That was from last night. Like I said, with 2.4k armor and 25k HP. Not tanky but not squishy either.

    I have to say you got downed by a full berserker set ranger in scholar runes using Quickening Zephyr + "Sic 'Em!" + One Wolf Pack followed by a + PBS and a full RF channel.

    So that ranger has to run around full glass and blow up the utility bar and the elite and a couple of weapon skills and you stay totally still and AFK to pull that off as a single dodge would have evaded the full Rapid Fire channel. Or one single application of Protection. Toughness doesn't do much in this game.

    I believe I mentioned in another thread that this combo would 0-100 even a Minstrel Firebrand or Sentinel Warrior, About the only way you live if they get the drop on you is if you have an automatic invuln or protection built into your build.

    Like I said, I stopped to manage inventory while talking to a friend online, so I had a popup window blocking my view. Always the risk you take, so I'm not even mad at it. I was down before the inventory screen closed to even see what was going on. Grant it, I keep meaning to slap some Earth runes back into my armor just to kitten with Soulbeasts, but I have more important things to worry about.

    A DH can pull that off with a couple of traps and the shield. A mesmer with one shatter. Even Scourge can deal that amount of damage in one go using the F1-F4 at once in a full glass build, at 1200 range and still have available the whole utility bar and the weapon skills.

    Yeah and I can pop someone for 24k with a Gunflame, but the point is the Feb. Patch was supposed to curtail such things, but really only accomplished kneecapping a handful of classes while allowing others to continue instagibbing people with relative ease.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2021

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Yeah and I can pop someone for 24k with a Gunflame, but the point is the Feb. Patch was supposed to curtail such things, but really only accomplished kneecapping a handful of classes while allowing others to continue instagibbing people with relative ease.

    Well yeah i get your point. Just as counter point, after the Feb balance patch the Devs already explained that they think those builds should exists anyway, because it adds variation to the game mode. Holo can nuke you the same, power herald with hammer/sword the same, and weaver is also a killing machine. I mean every single class has access to one glass dps build.

    The Feb. patch was designed to somehow force players to commit into the build they want to play. Before the patch almost anybody could run as tanky as wanted yet do as much damage as a full glass build.

    So now you can do 24K gunflame but you have to run a really squishy build, same as the pewpew and the Scourge. Which i think is mostly fine; the balance tip should be the need to use more skills for the burst: In the case of the warrior you need to dedicate your build to that burst (same as the pewpew) having very little in terms of sustain, consume your elite and maybe another signet for the unblockable. Yes you got big mobility with the sword and keep a couple of invulns for sustain but then you won't deal that ranged damage.

    I think that is balanced.

    The builds which may need balance are those which can deal much damage while being relatively tanky by not needing to commit in the armor set and skills. That i would say is unbalanced.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Yeah and I can pop someone for 24k with a Gunflame, but the point is the Feb. Patch was supposed to curtail such things, but really only accomplished kneecapping a handful of classes while allowing others to continue instagibbing people with relative ease.

    Well yeah i get your point. Just as counter point, after the Feb balance patch the Devs already explained that they think those builds should exists anyway, because it adds variation to the game mode. Holo can nuke you the same, power herald with hammer/sword the same, and weaver is also a killing machine. I mean every single class has access to one glass dps build.

    Can I get an unnerfed Arc Divider and 20% Bloody Roar back then?

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2021

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Can I get an unnerfed Arc Divider and 20% Bloody Roar back then?

    So you want a Warrior AoE dps without the need to commit to the build?

    Bloddy Roar hasn't been nerfed. Before did add the damage additively and when changed to multiplicatively got a reduced multiplier so it wasn't buffed to be over 20%.
    Arc Divider does more damage than Gunflame with the full chanell ( 0.7 * 3 = 2.1 ) vs 1.5

    This is just petty which could be the synopsis of this thread.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Can I get an unnerfed Arc Divider and 20% Bloody Roar back then?

    So you want a Warrior AoE dps without the need to commit to the build?

    Oh no, I commit to it.

    Bloddy Roar hasn't been nerfed. Before did add the damage additively and when changed to multiplicatively got a reduced multiplier so it wasn't buffed to be over 20%.
    Arc Divider does more damage than Gunflame with the full chanell ( 0.7 * 3 = 2.1 ) vs 1.5

    I meant the Arc Divider from right when they rolled out the Berserker Rework. Roughly the same effect as the OWP+RF combo in its effectiveness in deleting people, but requires more resources and to be in melee range, so that means it should be fine right (/s)?

    This is just petty which could be the synopsis of this thread.

    /shrug

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Stopped briefly today to deposit materials in my inventory while talking to a friend, so obviously distracted by more important things in life, and a wild Soulbeast appeared:

    Oh look its the exact combo I talked about, OWP->PBS->RF (it was super effective). BTW I was down before I even closed my inventory. Not that I'm mad about it, its always the risk you run when you stop to manage your inventory. 2.4k defense and 25k HP. Not tanky, but not squishy either. Although this guy kitten his own damage by using quickness, still enough to down a warrior before the knockback from PBS wears off.

    Found it funny that this happened given this conversation is still going on.

    Ah i find funny we are still discussing this. First of those number seems to high for the current numbers, is it an screenshot pre-nerf to Sicem? . I haven't seen a 2K OWP from long time ago. Currently the skill pulls 1.2 - 1.5K in wvw maybe because the targets usually run tankier. In any case...

    I have to say you got downed by a full berserker set ranger in scholar runes using Quickening Zephyr + "Sic 'Em!" + One Wolf Pack followed by a + PBS and a full RF channel.

    So that ranger has to run around full glass and blow up the utility bar and the elite and a couple of weapon skills and you stay totally still and AFK to pull that off as a single dodge would have evaded the full Rapid Fire channel. Or one single application of Protection. Toughness doesn't do much in this game.

    A DH can pull that off with a couple of traps and the shield. A mesmer with one shatter. Even Scourge can deal that amount of damage in one go using the F1-F4 at once in a full glass build, at 1200 range and still have available the whole utility bar and the weapon skills.

    as a mesmer player I find it offensive to suggest one shatter can do 25k dmg to someone with 2,4k armor

  • KeyOrion.9506KeyOrion.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't see what the problem is. Comparatively speaking Soulbeasts never had that great many numbers in WvW and in fact are regularly less populous than the rest of the classes used in WvW, except maybe for Revenant. However Revenants are wanted in allied zergs more than a ranger would be. Most soulbeasts will be op roamers, but their usually shoved to the side in larger groups that have particular meta-groupings of firebrands, scourge, guards, dome warrirors, healing ele's and support engineers. In fact there's little to no meta-group builds for Soulbeasts within a zerg. At best we're used as harrasers, and the one job of headhunting most commanders tell us not to headhunt, because they want a "fair fight". I would prefer to win with every trick in the book, so Soulbeasts, and ranger's in general are most commonly cast offs.

  • You god---- right you will get some hate. And here's some. I can't stand the kind of people go around into every class forum and say nerf this nerf that. What do we have ? Nerf mesmer because too much stealth, too much condi. Nerf guardians because too good at several things at once. Nerf warrior because too high bust. Nerf necro because too tanky, too much condi. Nerf thief because that thing stealth 24 hours a day. Nerf engi because those bubbles and barriers are non-stop. Get real, will ya? what's next? just do auto-attack from now on? or perhaps you will cry foul on the auto too? If things look too easy, congrats, you just killed some noob. if you got owned by SB easily, learn their rotation. Rangers are annoying, but I can take on a SB any day. Didn't those poor SB some massive nerfs recently, no pet switches. What were they before? gods? never heard of it.

  • Abyssisis.3971Abyssisis.3971 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Stopped briefly today to deposit materials in my inventory while talking to a friend, so obviously distracted by more important things in life, and a wild Soulbeast appeared:

    Oh look its the exact combo I talked about, OWP->PBS->RF (it was super effective). BTW I was down before I even closed my inventory. Not that I'm mad about it, its always the risk you run when you stop to manage your inventory. 2.4k defense and 25k HP. Not tanky, but not squishy either. Although this guy kitten his own damage by using quickness, still enough to down a warrior before the knockback from PBS wears off.

    Found it funny that this happened given this conversation is still going on.

    How did him using quickness kitten his damage??

  • @Abyssisis.3971 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Stopped briefly today to deposit materials in my inventory while talking to a friend, so obviously distracted by more important things in life, and a wild Soulbeast appeared:

    Oh look its the exact combo I talked about, OWP->PBS->RF (it was super effective). BTW I was down before I even closed my inventory. Not that I'm mad about it, its always the risk you run when you stop to manage your inventory. 2.4k defense and 25k HP. Not tanky, but not squishy either. Although this guy kitten his own damage by using quickness, still enough to down a warrior before the knockback from PBS wears off.

    Found it funny that this happened given this conversation is still going on.

    How did him using quickness kitten his damage??

    OWP procs every 1/4s provided you are hitting every 1/4s like RF does without quickness. Using quickness makes Rapid fire hit faster than a 1/4s interval, thus OWP procs fewer times during the channel.

  • Abyssisis.3971Abyssisis.3971 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Abyssisis.3971 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Stopped briefly today to deposit materials in my inventory while talking to a friend, so obviously distracted by more important things in life, and a wild Soulbeast appeared:

    Oh look its the exact combo I talked about, OWP->PBS->RF (it was super effective). BTW I was down before I even closed my inventory. Not that I'm mad about it, its always the risk you run when you stop to manage your inventory. 2.4k defense and 25k HP. Not tanky, but not squishy either. Although this guy kitten his own damage by using quickness, still enough to down a warrior before the knockback from PBS wears off.

    Found it funny that this happened given this conversation is still going on.

    How did him using quickness kitten his damage??

    OWP procs every 1/4s provided you are hitting every 1/4s like RF does without quickness. Using quickness makes Rapid fire hit faster than a 1/4s interval, thus OWP procs fewer times during the channel.

    Can you post a screen of your combat log showing 10 owp hits from a rapidfire? I’ve never seen one... I can get 5 owp hits from a rapidfire regardless of whether quickness is used or not.

    As far as I’m aware, owp and vulture stance intervals is actually 1/2s and not the 1/4s the tooltip claims it to be.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/120309/vulture-stance-attack-intervals-with-rapidfire#latest

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/121393/soulbeast-stances-effects-dont-proc-as-often-as-described-in-the-tooltip#latest

  • https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/One_Wolf_Pack

    Stance. Your successful attacks will trigger a second strike while in this stance.
    This effect can occur once per interval.

    PvE/WvW:
    Damage: 168 (0.63)?
    One Wolf Pack (8s): Striking a foe will cause them to be attacked again after a short delay.
    Strike Delay: ¼ seconds
    Interval: ¼ seconds
    — In-game description [?]

    You may not ever see all 10 procs, because most people are dead before all 10 are needed, or if they dodge/block/blind/evade/invuln during a part of it. You're 0.5s number is because there is a 0.25s delay before the damage packet from OWP activates, but the damage interval that will cause the OWP activation is 0.25s.

  • UmbraNoctis.1907UmbraNoctis.1907 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 8, 2021

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/One_Wolf_Pack

    Stance. Your successful attacks will trigger a second strike while in this stance.
    This effect can occur once per interval.

    PvE/WvW:
    Damage: 168 (0.63)?
    One Wolf Pack (8s): Striking a foe will cause them to be attacked again after a short delay.
    Strike Delay: ¼ seconds
    Interval: ¼ seconds
    — In-game description [?]

    You may not ever see all 10 procs, because most people are dead before all 10 are needed, or if they dodge/block/blind/evade/invuln during a part of it. You're 0.5s number is because there is a 0.25s delay before the damage packet from OWP activates, but the damage interval that will cause the OWP activation is 0.25s.

    No, Abyssisis.3971 is right. RF does not proc OWP 10x. Could be a latency thing, could be a bug, could be whatever, but it usually only triggers every other hit, without quickness. What the skill description says and how stuff actually works ingame does not always match 100% perfectly (my guess would be that RF hits aren't exactly 0,25s apart, but slightly less, because the skill has a very short "pre-channel" cast time)

  • Abyssisis.3971Abyssisis.3971 Member ✭✭✭

    @UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/One_Wolf_Pack

    Stance. Your successful attacks will trigger a second strike while in this stance.
    This effect can occur once per interval.

    PvE/WvW:
    Damage: 168 (0.63)?
    One Wolf Pack (8s): Striking a foe will cause them to be attacked again after a short delay.
    Strike Delay: ¼ seconds
    Interval: ¼ seconds
    — In-game description [?]

    You may not ever see all 10 procs, because most people are dead before all 10 are needed, or if they dodge/block/blind/evade/invuln during a part of it. You're 0.5s number is because there is a 0.25s delay before the damage packet from OWP activates, but the damage interval that will cause the OWP activation is 0.25s.

    No, Abyssisis.3971 is right. RF does not proc OWP 10x. Could be a latency thing, could be a bug, could be whatever, but it usually only triggers every other hit, without quickness. What the skill description says and how stuff actually works ingame does not always match 100% perfectly (my guess would be that RF hits aren't exactly 0,25s apart, but slightly less, because the skill has a very short "pre-channel" cast time)

    Pretty sure I tested it with shortbow as well, and it still doesn’t get 1/4s between owp procs. Seems to be taking the interval and strike delay into account before allowing another owp proc to occur. So basically 1/2s between owp damage strikes.

  • KeyOrion.9506KeyOrion.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    The Damage can be pumped up by use of Boons, Food/Oil, atypical Ranger Runes, and not let us forget about Sigils. Can those numbers be duplicated? Yes, yes they can. Because you all didn't take into account ALL the different mechanics that go into the the Damage of the skill in the first place. For those of you that have Legendary everything on your ranger, I would suggest having a little fun by going crazy with mix/matching with your legendary equipment. You'd be surprised with what you could do with Rapidfire.

  • Choppy.4183Choppy.4183 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:
    Just another troll and useless post.
    After 2 years of break, I came back, and ppl who are playing other classes than ranger are still coming on the Ranger forum and crying and complaining. Pathetic.

    Man, every subgroup gets this. Doesn't matter if a class is the current apex predator or the bottom of the trash heap, there will always be someone calling for nerves (and someone else calling for buffs). The hard part is figuring out when the cries are objectivelt warranted.

    I’m Biffles Ma Niffles, and I approved this message.
    Ehmry Bay | Omg Brb Icecream Truck (ICEE)

  • bigo.9037bigo.9037 Member ✭✭✭✭

    those screen shots... haha. those are rookie numbers. on any given day i will hit multiple RFs for 2K per hit along with 2.5k OWP procs on wvw players. got multiple clips of me taking people from mounts to downed in like 1 second.

    i like it this way. i like needing fast reactions. a lot of people die cus they are incredibly slow or not paying attention and dont pop their stunbreak/heal/block. I KNOW you can pop blocks and evades. good players do it all the time. when a 1shot owp soulbeast attacks me on my pure dmg build, 9 times out of 10 i can win the fight even after they dismount me and i take a few hits cus i react fast with my block. ofc i die too if i don’t pay attention but that’s my own fault, not the game’s fault.

  • Dragonzhunter.8506Dragonzhunter.8506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Choppy.4183 said:

    @Dragonzhunter.8506 said:
    Just another troll and useless post.
    After 2 years of break, I came back, and ppl who are playing other classes than ranger are still coming on the Ranger forum and crying and complaining. Pathetic.

    Man, every subgroup gets this. Doesn't matter if a class is the current apex predator or the bottom of the trash heap, there will always be someone calling for nerves (and someone else calling for buffs). The hard part is figuring out when the cries are objectivelt warranted.

    Choppy, I am pretty sure that every subgroup gets this. I am not doing, because I am interested more in how my class is doing, how we can make it better, etc.
    Anyway, it is good to be back :).
    PS: I am still missing the pet swap in combat when you are Soulbeast. It was very dynamic and more strategic etc ...

  • Tseison.4659Tseison.4659 Member ✭✭✭

    Yeah boonbeast is pretty strong tbh :s

  • Miguron.3067Miguron.3067 Member ✭✭

    kitten ranger is super trash, it needs a buff

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    all you gotta do is nerf the might to make glass slb manageable, getting 17k autos is obviously broken beyond belief

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Miguron.3067 said:
    kitten ranger is super trash, it needs a buff

    WvW is full to the brink with necros, thieves, heralds and renegade....they are like 2-3 necro per meter/square now on the entire map. The vast majority of them are super trash and thus ranger is pretty effective against that.....the main reason why ranger get hated on is that WvW full of necros and thieves and both are vulnerable to ranged dmg at which ranger excel when played well.

    A single well played ele is like the death of your average ranger, but again ele are like white flies compared to necros so....that I hope explains why you see so many ranger nerf thread even though the class is nothing special on average

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Miguron.3067 said:
    kitten ranger is super trash, it needs a buff

    WvW is full to the brink with necros, thieves, heralds and renegade....they are like 2-3 necro per meter/square now on the entire map. The vast majority of them are super trash and thus ranger is pretty effective against that.....the main reason why ranger get hated on is that WvW full of necros and thieves and both are vulnerable to ranged dmg at which ranger excel when played well.

    A single well played ele is like the death of your average ranger, but again ele are like white flies compared to necros so....that I hope explains why you see so many ranger nerf thread even though the class is nothing special on average

    Corrosive Poison Cloud is death to the average ranger player in WvW...

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Miguron.3067 said:
    kitten ranger is super trash, it needs a buff

    WvW is full to the brink with necros, thieves, heralds and renegade....they are like 2-3 necro per meter/square now on the entire map. The vast majority of them are super trash and thus ranger is pretty effective against that.....the main reason why ranger get hated on is that WvW full of necros and thieves and both are vulnerable to ranged dmg at which ranger excel when played well.

    A single well played ele is like the death of your average ranger, but again ele are like white flies compared to necros so....that I hope explains why you see so many ranger nerf thread even though the class is nothing special on average

    Corrosive Poison Cloud is death to the average ranger player in WvW...

    The majority of necros are just drones pressing F1 off cd and then 5-4, then they backpedal while never pressing the dodge button...I manage to kill necros in wvw even on core ele..that should tell you everything about the state of wvw in terms of average skill level...and you expect them to know how to use poison cloud...c'mon

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Miguron.3067 said:
    kitten ranger is super trash, it needs a buff

    WvW is full to the brink with necros, thieves, heralds and renegade....they are like 2-3 necro per meter/square now on the entire map. The vast majority of them are super trash and thus ranger is pretty effective against that.....the main reason why ranger get hated on is that WvW full of necros and thieves and both are vulnerable to ranged dmg at which ranger excel when played well.

    A single well played ele is like the death of your average ranger, but again ele are like white flies compared to necros so....that I hope explains why you see so many ranger nerf thread even though the class is nothing special on average

    Corrosive Poison Cloud is death to the average ranger player in WvW...

    The majority of necros are just drones pressing F1 off cd and then 5-4, then they backpedal while never pressing the dodge button...I manage to kill necros in wvw even on core ele..that should tell you everything about the state of wvw in terms of average skill level...and you expect them to know how to use poison cloud...c'mon

    No, I don't expect the average necro player to, since the average player in WvW is very bad. I kill rangers sitting inside their own camps with RI on the supervisor as a Reaper. I'll also make them dance about on my Burn DH until they blown all their dodges and condi clears and drop them with SoJ while sitting inside of Shield of the Avenger with its 100% uptime that destroys projectiles. And that all works because the average Ranger player never take unblockables in their build.

    The average player never notices their projectiles getting destroyed, nor do they realize that using Hunter's Shot, or any other source of stealth doesn't break channel skills that have already activated like volley or rush. The average player lets themselves get hit by Headbutt and Executioner's Strike for crying out load.

    The average WvW player is generally pretty bad, hence why CPC is death to the average ranger player.

  • Miguron.3067Miguron.3067 Member ✭✭

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Miguron.3067 said:
    kitten ranger is super trash, it needs a buff

    WvW is full to the brink with necros, thieves, heralds and renegade....they are like 2-3 necro per meter/square now on the entire map. The vast majority of them are super trash and thus ranger is pretty effective against that.....the main reason why ranger get hated on is that WvW full of necros and thieves and both are vulnerable to ranged dmg at which ranger excel when played well.

    A single well played ele is like the death of your average ranger, but again ele are like white flies compared to necros so....that I hope explains why you see so many ranger nerf thread even though the class is nothing special on average

    Sad story really cause i like ranger, i Have really high hope for EoD

  • Mighty Cole.7849Mighty Cole.7849 Member ✭✭✭

    Typically, when I notice that there is an over abundance of any particular profession running amok, I get the feeling that they are probably OP to some degree.

    But that's just my opinion. :)

  • Substance E.4852Substance E.4852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mighty Cole.7849 said:
    Typically, when I notice that there is an over abundance of any particular profession running amok, I get the feeling that they are probably OP to some degree.

    But that's just my opinion. :)

    By that logic, they should be nerfing every class other than Ranger in WvW

    Unless we're talking about roaming in which case thief is still first to the chopping block

  • Mighty Cole.7849Mighty Cole.7849 Member ✭✭✭

    @Substance E.4852 said:
    By that logic, they should be nerfing every class other than Ranger in WvW

    Yeah, sorry. I was referring to roaming in general.

    Unless we're talking about roaming in which case thief is still first to the chopping block

    I disagree. Although I don't keep count, I can say, with the utmost confidence, that I encounter far more rangers than I do thieves.

  • Skada.1362Skada.1362 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mighty Cole.7849 said:

    @Substance E.4852 said:
    By that logic, they should be nerfing every class other than Ranger in WvW

    Yeah, sorry. I was referring to roaming in general.

    Unless we're talking about roaming in which case thief is still first to the chopping block

    I disagree. Although I don't keep count, I can say, with the utmost confidence, that I encounter far more rangers than I do thieves.

    I encounter more thieves than anything, followed by rangers, and once in a blue moon a holosmith. Feels like the ratio is 100 thieves per 50 rangers per 1 holo. T1 EU btw.

    Derpocalypse Piken Square [Idol]