Can you prove with video thief is strong, not the pro streamer, but YOUR video? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Can you prove with video thief is strong, not the pro streamer, but YOUR video?

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  • darren.1064darren.1064 Member ✭✭✭

    kitten, nobody can show that thief is ridiculously OP. That's wild.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player clicking their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

    Actually, it proves the thief should NEVER die to a mirage. It shows how hard it is to make contact with the DD due to crazy high mobility and infinite reset thanks to its access to stealth combined with slow kitten clones.

    I mean, if the thief runs away? Sure. But thats what I said. At best the thief just runs away and doesnt get a kill. At worst he dies before he can do so. Thats not a winning proposition.

    For example: If the DD chose to leave the Mirage (me) wouldn't have enough mobility to catch it, nor would the Mirage be able to run away once the fight has started. I have two options, fight the DD or run to the camp and hope the NPCs took care of it for me.

    Slightly incorrect. You have 2 options. Indeed. They are "the thief stays and you kill him", and "the thief runs away and no one dies". There is no option in which you die.

    With blink's 35 second cool-down and the fact that its also one of two stun-breaks being used its not like the Mirage can actually close on the DD unless the DD keeps coming back to try and kill the Mirage. Meanwhile, the DD has MORE than enough damage available to kill a Mirage many times over. Additionally, if the Mirage attempts to chase and close on the DD the Mirage its forced to use Blink (1 of 2 stun-breaks) and jaunt (loss of burst damage and clone generation), which then leaves the Mirage basically without jack kitten to use if the DD decides to turn and kill the mirage after a short run. Likewise, if the Mirage tries to run it is forced to use Blink and also its other stun-break if it wants stealth and again IF the DD Chooses it can easily chase down the Mirage and kill once those are used up with little to no risk. Again, DD ALWAYS has the advantage and should NEVER lose this match-up PERIOD!

    Yeah we saw that DD having more than enough damage available to kill you. Or rather what we saw was them barely scratching you and certainly not being to kill you once, let alone "many times over". What we saw is that if the thief wanted to do enough damage to at least put a dent in you, they die. If they run away before dying then you didnt take nearly enough damage to even be threatened. This is a matchup that Mirage cannot lose. He usually wont win either unless the thief wants to stick around and fight, but lose he will not.

    The only reason they didn't kill me is they got sloppy, both times. I would guess the reason the DD got sloppy/kept attacking without much care was they are used to face-rolling over the average CMirage (how ever skills are activated), for example, moving away enough to make my clones melt, then coming back each time (they let me maintain my clones, which is rare/sloppy)

    Uh, no. Even with you playing inefficiently, the reason they didn't kill you is because they couldn't. You could see that their damage was just more than insufficient. The reason they died despite you playing super inefficient is because they got sloppy, but the only other outcome is that they ran away and you lived for free. Them killing you would never happen.

    Also as to using mouse to skill click, yes I do esp on Mirage you have to use mouse for jaunt and blink constantly. Additionally, unlike Thief I have to actually face my target for most of my attacks to work (ambush wont work for instance) so I don't see much point in doing it any other way. I have always played vanilla and I never claim to be a super pro gamer bro type of player so what ever dude.

    No you dont? Its super inefficient compared to just using regular inputs. And you think Thief doesnt have to constantly keep its camera in mind, despite having you know, backstab, as well as the whole usage of Heartseeker in black powder? Like kitten, I knew you didnt know thief but still.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player clicking their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

    Actually, it proves the thief should NEVER die to a mirage. It shows how hard it is to make contact with the DD due to crazy high mobility and infinite reset thanks to its access to stealth combined with slow kitten clones.

    I mean, if the thief runs away? Sure. But thats what I said. At best the thief just runs away and doesnt get a kill. At worst he dies before he can do so. Thats not a winning proposition.

    For example: If the DD chose to leave the Mirage (me) wouldn't have enough mobility to catch it, nor would the Mirage be able to run away once the fight has started. I have two options, fight the DD or run to the camp and hope the NPCs took care of it for me.

    Slightly incorrect. You have 2 options. Indeed. They are "the thief stays and you kill him", and "the thief runs away and no one dies". There is no option in which you die.

    With blink's 35 second cool-down and the fact that its also one of two stun-breaks being used its not like the Mirage can actually close on the DD unless the DD keeps coming back to try and kill the Mirage. Meanwhile, the DD has MORE than enough damage available to kill a Mirage many times over. Additionally, if the Mirage attempts to chase and close on the DD the Mirage its forced to use Blink (1 of 2 stun-breaks) and jaunt (loss of burst damage and clone generation), which then leaves the Mirage basically without jack kitten to use if the DD decides to turn and kill the mirage after a short run. Likewise, if the Mirage tries to run it is forced to use Blink and also its other stun-break if it wants stealth and again IF the DD Chooses it can easily chase down the Mirage and kill once those are used up with little to no risk. Again, DD ALWAYS has the advantage and should NEVER lose this match-up PERIOD!

    Yeah we saw that DD having more than enough damage available to kill you. Or rather what we saw was them barely scratching you and certainly not being to kill you once, let alone "many times over". What we saw is that if the thief wanted to do enough damage to at least put a dent in you, they die. If they run away before dying then you didnt take nearly enough damage to even be threatened. This is a matchup that Mirage cannot lose. He usually wont win either unless the thief wants to stick around and fight, but lose he will not.

    The only reason they didn't kill me is they got sloppy, both times. I would guess the reason the DD got sloppy/kept attacking without much care was they are used to face-rolling over the average CMirage (how ever skills are activated), for example, moving away enough to make my clones melt, then coming back each time (they let me maintain my clones, which is rare/sloppy)

    Uh, no. Even with you playing inefficiently, the reason they didn't kill you is because they couldn't. You could see that their damage was just more than insufficient. The reason they died despite you playing super inefficient is because they got sloppy, but the only other outcome is that they ran away and you lived for free. Them killing you would never happen.

    Also as to using mouse to skill click, yes I do esp on Mirage you have to use mouse for jaunt and blink constantly. Additionally, unlike Thief I have to actually face my target for most of my attacks to work (ambush wont work for instance) so I don't see much point in doing it any other way. I have always played vanilla and I never claim to be a super pro gamer bro type of player so what ever dude.

    No you dont? Its super inefficient compared to just using regular inputs. And you think Thief doesnt have to constantly keep its camera in mind, despite having you know, backstab, as well as the whole usage of Heartseeker in black powder? Like kitten, I knew you didnt know thief but still.

    Also to be clear. When I posted that I wasn't actually trying to say thief is OP in pvp specifically or that it has no counter or anything, infinite reset is much more useful in wvw and they have access to a wider range of stats that help them get kills very effectively when roaming, with little risk thanks to the ability to reset continually on a number of builds not just DD d/p.

    I was more posting this after reading:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Isn't Thief like, doodoo tier now in PvP?
    Now if we are talking about WvW, Thief is undeniably strong due to the reset potential, partly because WvW allows Thieves to reset as many times as they like by going OOC.

    PvP? No such thing.
    If Thief can't pull off their burst on yu, they have to run away and at that point they lost due to losing point control.

    ...and was attempting to agree that in WvW thief is very strong thanks to things like reset potential. I wasn't actually trying to say Thief is crazy OP. I think one dodge is rather under powered and the fact that I think DD d/p thief should be able to own cmirage typically doesn't imply that thief is OP.

    I am trying to agree that they have crazy amounts of stealth and mobility that gives them often infinite reset potential. I would say DE is arguably better at the stealth, burst, reset, repeat thing in more safety in wvw. Thief is hella common around in wvw still more so than Mirage for sure.

    "backstab, as well as the whole usage of Heartseeker in black powder?" yep why do you think I kept trying to move my back around and throw up refelctions + cripple for.

    Lets face it I'm just talking about the OPs thread and you are just attempting to make personal attacks to make your outrage clear now that thief is LESS OP than it was before. Just like I'm bitter that Mirage has one kitten dodge while DD has 3. Yet at the same time I'm not trying to call for nerfs to thief am I? Im not trying to insult or belittle anyone, am I? I just made a reasonable response to this post (although I did forget to quote Yasai). You seem very defensive about thief as a whole. I can relate to feeling passionate about a class. Try to understand I'm not trying to attack your favorite class per say. I was trying to agree that in wvw thiefs reset ability can, at least seem, infinite.

    I think you should chill. I could continue to try and quote all the kitten you are asserting and respond but I don't see the point. You will continue to try and make it personal rather than about classes and gameplay. shrug Happy New Year

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2020

    Also in general I will repeat. I think using a combination of 1-0 and the rest of your keys with one hand while you also click skills with the mouse is required to function. Its some serious nit picking, petty, kitten to bring it up and an obvious distraction from the actual topic.

    How else would you for example blink up onto a ledge.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player clicking their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.

    Actually, it proves the thief should NEVER die to a mirage. It shows how hard it is to make contact with the DD due to crazy high mobility and infinite reset thanks to its access to stealth combined with slow kitten clones.

    I mean, if the thief runs away? Sure. But thats what I said. At best the thief just runs away and doesnt get a kill. At worst he dies before he can do so. Thats not a winning proposition.

    For example: If the DD chose to leave the Mirage (me) wouldn't have enough mobility to catch it, nor would the Mirage be able to run away once the fight has started. I have two options, fight the DD or run to the camp and hope the NPCs took care of it for me.

    Slightly incorrect. You have 2 options. Indeed. They are "the thief stays and you kill him", and "the thief runs away and no one dies". There is no option in which you die.

    With blink's 35 second cool-down and the fact that its also one of two stun-breaks being used its not like the Mirage can actually close on the DD unless the DD keeps coming back to try and kill the Mirage. Meanwhile, the DD has MORE than enough damage available to kill a Mirage many times over. Additionally, if the Mirage attempts to chase and close on the DD the Mirage its forced to use Blink (1 of 2 stun-breaks) and jaunt (loss of burst damage and clone generation), which then leaves the Mirage basically without jack kitten to use if the DD decides to turn and kill the mirage after a short run. Likewise, if the Mirage tries to run it is forced to use Blink and also its other stun-break if it wants stealth and again IF the DD Chooses it can easily chase down the Mirage and kill once those are used up with little to no risk. Again, DD ALWAYS has the advantage and should NEVER lose this match-up PERIOD!

    Yeah we saw that DD having more than enough damage available to kill you. Or rather what we saw was them barely scratching you and certainly not being to kill you once, let alone "many times over". What we saw is that if the thief wanted to do enough damage to at least put a dent in you, they die. If they run away before dying then you didnt take nearly enough damage to even be threatened. This is a matchup that Mirage cannot lose. He usually wont win either unless the thief wants to stick around and fight, but lose he will not.

    The only reason they didn't kill me is they got sloppy, both times. I would guess the reason the DD got sloppy/kept attacking without much care was they are used to face-rolling over the average CMirage (how ever skills are activated), for example, moving away enough to make my clones melt, then coming back each time (they let me maintain my clones, which is rare/sloppy)

    Uh, no. Even with you playing inefficiently, the reason they didn't kill you is because they couldn't. You could see that their damage was just more than insufficient. The reason they died despite you playing super inefficient is because they got sloppy, but the only other outcome is that they ran away and you lived for free. Them killing you would never happen.

    Also as to using mouse to skill click, yes I do esp on Mirage you have to use mouse for jaunt and blink constantly. Additionally, unlike Thief I have to actually face my target for most of my attacks to work (ambush wont work for instance) so I don't see much point in doing it any other way. I have always played vanilla and I never claim to be a super pro gamer bro type of player so what ever dude.

    No you dont? Its super inefficient compared to just using regular inputs. And you think Thief doesnt have to constantly keep its camera in mind, despite having you know, backstab, as well as the whole usage of Heartseeker in black powder? Like kitten, I knew you didnt know thief but still.

    Also to be clear. When I posted that I wasn't actually trying to say thief is OP in pvp specifically or that it has no counter or anything, infinite reset is much more useful in wvw and they have access to a wider range of stats that help them get kills very effectively when roaming, with little risk thanks to the ability to reset continually on a number of builds not just DD d/p.

    Actually their mobility is a lot more useful in PvP. In WvW all it does is mean that you dont die. You dont kill either though. Youre just useless. Thats why you dont see a lot of thieves roaming noawadys.

    I was more posting this after reading:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Isn't Thief like, doodoo tier now in PvP?
    Now if we are talking about WvW, Thief is undeniably strong due to the reset potential, partly because WvW allows Thieves to reset as many times as they like by going OOC.

    PvP? No such thing.
    If Thief can't pull off their burst on yu, they have to run away and at that point they lost due to losing point control.

    ...and was attempting to agree that in WvW thief is very strong thanks to things like reset potential. I wasn't actually trying to say Thief is crazy OP. I think one dodge is rather under powered and the fact that I think DD d/p thief should be able to own cmirage typically doesn't imply that thief is OP.

    Its not though, thats precisely the issue. WvW thief is weak. It can survive, but it cant accomplish anything. Its a mosquito. As I said, thats why despite being a rogue, you dont see many of them anymore nowadays. Its all Holos and Soulbeasts and Reapers and DHs and Revenants.

    I am trying to agree that they have crazy amounts of stealth and mobility that gives them often infinite reset potential. I would say DE is arguably better at the stealth, burst, reset, repeat thing in more safety in wvw. Thief is hella common around in wvw still more so than Mirage for sure.

    Moreso than mirage? Sure. Mirage isnt very good. "Hella common" however? Nope. Of the classes I see while roaming, its bottom 4 at best, and Im pretty sure its bottom 3.

    "backstab, as well as the whole usage of Heartseeker in black powder?" yep why do you think I kept trying to move my back around and throw up refelctions + cripple for.

    Missing the point here.

    Lets face it I'm just talking about the OPs thread and you are just attempting to make personal attacks to make your outrage clear now that thief is LESS OP than it was before. Just like I'm bitter that Mirage has one kitten dodge while DD has 3. Yet at the same time I'm not trying to call for nerfs to thief am I? Im not trying to insult or belittle anyone, am I? I just made a reasonable response to this post (although I did forget to quote Yasai). You seem very defensive about thief as a whole. I can relate to feeling passionate about a class. Try to understand I'm not trying to attack your favorite class per say. I was trying to agree that in wvw thiefs reset ability can, at least seem, infinite.

    Oh please. OPs thread was arguing that thief isnt OP. It never was, it just was mandatory as a decap and +1 bot. You then tried to pivot it to WvW, where thief not only wasnt "OP" in a very long time, but is actively bad right now.

  • You may also want to remember how many MORE nerfs Mirage got and hope thief isnt in for a bunch MORE nerfs too cause its still not total garbage. Hell Chrono, at this point, is LUCKY to have gotten self shatters back. Who knows what else Anet may have waiting for thief or any class for that matter.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Oh please. OPs thread was arguing that thief isnt OP. It never was, it just was mandatory as a decap and +1 bot. You then tried to pivot it to WvW, where thief not only wasnt "OP" in a very long time, but is actively bad right now.

    Actually, specifically, I was responding after reading:

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Isn't Thief like, doodoo tier now in PvP?
    Now if we are talking about WvW, Thief is undeniably strong due to the reset potential, partly because WvW allows Thieves to reset as many times as they like by going OOC.

    Which made me think about the video I just made after looking up at OPs topic and then I posted my video for an example of thief reset potential. My error (if any) was to quote the OP and not Yasai.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    You may also want to remember how many MORE nerfs Mirage got and hope thief isnt in for a bunch MORE nerfs too cause its still not total garbage. Hell Chrono, at this point, is LUCKY to have gotten self shatters back. Who knows what else Anet may have waiting for thief or any class for that matter.

    Do you think Mirage got more nerfs than thief? It didnt. Thief pretty much does nothing outside of being the most mobile, because they didnt touch that for the longest time. That just happens to be the only thing making thief good in PvP. In WvW thief has been trash for a while.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2020

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    You may also want to remember how many MORE nerfs Mirage got and hope thief isnt in for a bunch MORE nerfs too cause its still not total garbage. Hell Chrono, at this point, is LUCKY to have gotten self shatters back. Who knows what else Anet may have waiting for thief or any class for that matter.

    Do you think Mirage got more nerfs than thief? It didnt. Thief pretty much does nothing outside of being the most mobile, because they didnt touch that for the longest time. That just happens to be the only thing making thief good in PvP. In WvW thief has been trash for a while.

    I remember people thinking Mirage was kitten after they nerfed, axe damage, super speed on MC, MC duration, vigor on MC. They reduced torch damage, they removed or reduced most sources for confusion because Mirage was "too bursty" Then they reduced clones one scepter and staff, changed cooldowns on blink, decoy, and others because it "had no counter". People thought surely that is all, mirage is trash now, but no it continued. they further reduced damage pretty much across the board for mesmer in pvp/wvw, they took away chronos self shatter, Mirages 2nd dodge, and then they nerfed mesmer a little more just before giving chrono back self shatter. Yea I think Mesmer has had the most nerfs. impactful nerfs too. It has very few build options now and hey all have hard counters.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    You may also want to remember how many MORE nerfs Mirage got and hope thief isnt in for a bunch MORE nerfs too cause its still not total garbage. Hell Chrono, at this point, is LUCKY to have gotten self shatters back. Who knows what else Anet may have waiting for thief or any class for that matter.

    Do you think Mirage got more nerfs than thief? It didnt. Thief pretty much does nothing outside of being the most mobile, because they didnt touch that for the longest time. That just happens to be the only thing making thief good in PvP. In WvW thief has been trash for a while.

    I remember people thinking Mirage was kitten after they nerfed, axe damage, super speed on MC, MC duration, vigor on MC. They reduced torch damage, they removed or reduced most sources for confusion because Mirage was "too bursty" Then they reduced clones one scepter and staff, changed cooldowns on blink, decoy, and others because it "had no counter". People thought surely that is all, mirage is trash now, but no it continued. they further reduced damage pretty much across the board for mesmer in pvp/wvw, they took away chronos self shatter, Mirages 2nd dodge, and then they nerfed mesmer a little more just before giving chrono back self shatter. Yea I think Mirage has had the most nerfs. impactful nerfs too. It has very few build options now and hey all have hard counters.

    Sure, Mirage is worse, but it doesnt have more nerfs. No class does.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2020

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @darren.1064 said:
    kitten, nobody can show that thief is ridiculously OP. That's wild.

    The response's in this thread is sad. These people have no idea how good thief actually was, how garbage it is now, and how good thief players can actually be.

    The veteran thieves play the class like an artform. The skill cap on it is extremely high, and that video is a good example of how hard a thief has to work in order to put a dent in a backpeddling skill clicking mesmer.

    This is meaningless blather. The same can be said of "top" Mesmers gameplay Jazz X man comes to mind. Im sorry you feel butt-hurt that thief has FINALLY been taken down a peg, even tho it still has too much reset potential and is STILL too low risk in many situations. Sad for you. Honest...

    Thief artform of the past: p/p DE 33333333
    Staff DD: 55555555 dodge 2 555555
    DE of past: kneel mark 1 done
    LOL skillz of the artform

  • Crozame.4098Crozame.4098 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 31, 2020

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    i do not believe a real high rank thief can loose to a mesmer who use mouse to click utilities.

  • @Crozame.4098 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    i do not really thing a real high rank thief can loose to a skill mouse clicker...

    He is plat rank so over 3,245...Its not how u activate the skills ITS WHEN AND WHY! eye roll

  • @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @darren.1064 said:
    kitten, nobody can show that thief is ridiculously OP. That's wild.

    The response's in this thread is sad. These people have no idea how good thief actually was, how garbage it is now, and how good thief players can actually be.

    The veteran thieves play the class like an artform. The skill cap on it is extremely high, and that video is a good example of how hard a thief has to work in order to put a dent in a backpeddling skill clicking mesmer.

    This is meaningless blather. The same can be said of "top" Mesmers gameplay Jazz X man comes to mind. Im sorry you feel butt-hurt that thief has FINALLY been taken down a peg, even tho it still has too much reset potential and is STILL too low risk in many situations. Sad for you. Honest...

    Thief artform of the past: p/p DE 33333333
    Staff DD: 55555555 dodge 2 555555
    DE of past: kneel mark 1 done
    LOL skillz of the artform

    Okay, how bout you go record a video into ranked on thief and try doing a 5555555 and see how far you get. hint, you won't get very far if you are a skill clicker.

    Please i would LOVE to see this video. You talk the talk, now walk the walk.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2021

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @darren.1064 said:
    kitten, nobody can show that thief is ridiculously OP. That's wild.

    The response's in this thread is sad. These people have no idea how good thief actually was, how garbage it is now, and how good thief players can actually be.

    The veteran thieves play the class like an artform. The skill cap on it is extremely high, and that video is a good example of how hard a thief has to work in order to put a dent in a backpeddling skill clicking mesmer.

    This is meaningless blather. The same can be said of "top" Mesmers gameplay Jazz X man comes to mind. Im sorry you feel butt-hurt that thief has FINALLY been taken down a peg, even tho it still has too much reset potential and is STILL too low risk in many situations. Sad for you. Honest...

    Thief artform of the past: p/p DE 33333333
    Staff DD: 55555555 dodge 2 555555
    DE of past: kneel mark 1 done
    LOL skillz of the artform

    Okay, how bout you go record a video into ranked on thief and try doing a 5555555 and see how far you get. hint, you won't get very far if you are a skill clicker.

    Please i would LOVE to see this video. You talk the talk, now walk the walk.

    LoL bounding ftw was funny when it was OP

    Bounding:
    February 25, 2020 Competitive content update:

    (Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient from 1.33 to 0.5. Increased bonus damage from 10% to 15%.
    

    May 16, 2017

    Bound: The damage of this ability has been reduced by 24% in PvP only.
    

    April 28, 2020

    This skill no longer ignores the immobile condition.
    

    Vault:
    February 25, 2020 Competitive content update:

    (Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient from 2.25 to 1.82. WvW will now use the PvP initiative cost of 6.
    

    December 11, 2018

    The damage of this attack will no longer occur if the thief shadowsteps after the skill has begun.
    

    May 16, 2017

    The initiative of this skill has been increased from 5 to 6 in PvP only.
    

    Weakening Charge
    February 25, 2020 Competitive content update:

    (Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient per hit from 0.7 to 0.45. Reduced weakness duration per hit from 2 seconds to 1 second.
    

    Hey Justice, you said you no longer play this game so by your definition of walking the walk you have no legs.

  • Styros.8931Styros.8931 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Styros.8931 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:
    Tried thief a couple of times.
    Hated how everything was so incredibly easy, any mistake went unpunished (no matter how hard you kitten up, you can always just dodge away, or stealth away -and shadow rejuvenation will bring you back to 100%-, or teleport away, or steal+unblockable daze that bypasses stab at the last second, or blind at the last second).
    Didn't touch it again, I was disgusted. Not gonna touch it just to prove a point on the forum.

    Let's play a different game: you try another class and then you come back here to tell us how it feels to play a game where people can actually punish you when you make a mistake, instead of having a hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons. Deal?

    My experience is holo is good at resets.

    You can chain defenses to get away enough to single out a thief on a shiro.

    Weavers are good and dodging and running away.

    Mirages, well mesmers in general are pretty hard to pin down.

    I mean if we play full glass, zero defense on anything we probably cant run away.

    Thief has one initiative pool, so after any "good" skill use they have maybe one more, and everything else goes "on cooldown".

    The escape buttons lol.....

    Just curious, what are the full hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons? (for thief)

    Three dodges with a very long travelled distance+ half a dodge from the signet, teleport which acts as a double stunbreak and also a cleanse, some more evade on dagger storm, one more evade on the healing skill (that, or some 5-6s of stealth, your choice), then even more stealth if you're running d\p (I'm assuming you do) + unblockable blindness here and there 'cause why tf shouldn't we add some more defensive options to thief they don't have anything, + swipe being an unblockable instacast ranged CC that bypasses stab and with the traits has a fairly low recharge time as well.

    Forgot anything?

    INB4 you're talking about daredevil not core thief. Yes I am.

    as I said like 100 times before its problem of D/P weapon set, other weapon sets doesn't have that huge impact

    Man its obviously u dont like teef weapon kits that include pistols or I'm betting rifle, that's ok as everyone dislikes the playstyles of some kits.

    Man , go play other weapon sets, then d/p then other again then d/p .After this manipulations look how bad you are and how op is d/p over other weapon sets. There no skill in spam blind from shadowshot and blackpowder , zero skill

  • Crozame.4098Crozame.4098 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2021

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Crozame.4098 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    i do not really thing a real high rank thief can loose to a skill mouse clicker...

    He is plat rank so over 3,245...Its not how u activate the skills ITS WHEN AND WHY! eye roll

    Ok, so you are talking about ranks in WvW... ok, eye roll~

  • @Moradorin.6217 said:
    LoL bounding ftw was funny when it was OP

    Bounding:
    February 25, 2020 Competitive content update:

    (Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient from 1.33 to 0.5. Increased bonus damage from 10% to 15%.
    

    May 16, 2017

    Bound: The damage of this ability has been reduced by 24% in PvP only.
    

    April 28, 2020

    This skill no longer ignores the immobile condition.
    

    Vault:
    February 25, 2020 Competitive content update:

    (Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient from 2.25 to 1.82. WvW will now use the PvP initiative cost of 6.
    

    December 11, 2018

    The damage of this attack will no longer occur if the thief shadowsteps after the skill has begun.
    

    May 16, 2017

    The initiative of this skill has been increased from 5 to 6 in PvP only.
    

    Weakening Charge
    February 25, 2020 Competitive content update:

    (Competitive split) Reduced power coefficient per hit from 0.7 to 0.45. Reduced weakness duration per hit from 2 seconds to 1 second.
    

    Hey Justice, you said you no longer play this game so by your definition of walking the walk you have no legs.

    So you link the changes page as if this somehow proves a point? literally trying to deflect by changing the subject

    upload a video of you playing thief spamming 5555. conversations stops here till' you go do that.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Styros.8931 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Styros.8931 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:
    Tried thief a couple of times.
    Hated how everything was so incredibly easy, any mistake went unpunished (no matter how hard you kitten up, you can always just dodge away, or stealth away -and shadow rejuvenation will bring you back to 100%-, or teleport away, or steal+unblockable daze that bypasses stab at the last second, or blind at the last second).
    Didn't touch it again, I was disgusted. Not gonna touch it just to prove a point on the forum.

    Let's play a different game: you try another class and then you come back here to tell us how it feels to play a game where people can actually punish you when you make a mistake, instead of having a hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons. Deal?

    My experience is holo is good at resets.

    You can chain defenses to get away enough to single out a thief on a shiro.

    Weavers are good and dodging and running away.

    Mirages, well mesmers in general are pretty hard to pin down.

    I mean if we play full glass, zero defense on anything we probably cant run away.

    Thief has one initiative pool, so after any "good" skill use they have maybe one more, and everything else goes "on cooldown".

    The escape buttons lol.....

    Just curious, what are the full hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons? (for thief)

    Three dodges with a very long travelled distance+ half a dodge from the signet, teleport which acts as a double stunbreak and also a cleanse, some more evade on dagger storm, one more evade on the healing skill (that, or some 5-6s of stealth, your choice), then even more stealth if you're running d\p (I'm assuming you do) + unblockable blindness here and there 'cause why tf shouldn't we add some more defensive options to thief they don't have anything, + swipe being an unblockable instacast ranged CC that bypasses stab and with the traits has a fairly low recharge time as well.

    Forgot anything?

    INB4 you're talking about daredevil not core thief. Yes I am.

    as I said like 100 times before its problem of D/P weapon set, other weapon sets doesn't have that huge impact

    Man its obviously u dont like teef weapon kits that include pistols or I'm betting rifle, that's ok as everyone dislikes the playstyles of some kits.

    Man , go play other weapon sets, then d/p then other again then d/p .After this manipulations look how bad you are and how op is d/p over other weapon sets. There no skill in spam blind from shadowshot and blackpowder , zero skill

    I play all weapon sets and do well on all but d/d builds so.......playing other weapon sets other than d/p doesn't make me feel like I'm bad, that may be just a u issue. Maybe practice a bit more on other builds.

  • Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    So you link the changes page as if this somehow proves a point? literally trying to deflect by changing the subject

    upload a video of you playing thief spamming 5555. conversations stops here till' you go do that.

    HIs point wasn't that 5-spam thief is currently good.

    HIs point was that that was how it was played in the past. The past. Not currently.

    I mean...... it's a wrong point. But at least try and address the point he is actually making and not one you've made up in your head.

  • Styros.8931Styros.8931 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Styros.8931 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Styros.8931 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:
    Tried thief a couple of times.
    Hated how everything was so incredibly easy, any mistake went unpunished (no matter how hard you kitten up, you can always just dodge away, or stealth away -and shadow rejuvenation will bring you back to 100%-, or teleport away, or steal+unblockable daze that bypasses stab at the last second, or blind at the last second).
    Didn't touch it again, I was disgusted. Not gonna touch it just to prove a point on the forum.

    Let's play a different game: you try another class and then you come back here to tell us how it feels to play a game where people can actually punish you when you make a mistake, instead of having a hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons. Deal?

    My experience is holo is good at resets.

    You can chain defenses to get away enough to single out a thief on a shiro.

    Weavers are good and dodging and running away.

    Mirages, well mesmers in general are pretty hard to pin down.

    I mean if we play full glass, zero defense on anything we probably cant run away.

    Thief has one initiative pool, so after any "good" skill use they have maybe one more, and everything else goes "on cooldown".

    The escape buttons lol.....

    Just curious, what are the full hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons? (for thief)

    Three dodges with a very long travelled distance+ half a dodge from the signet, teleport which acts as a double stunbreak and also a cleanse, some more evade on dagger storm, one more evade on the healing skill (that, or some 5-6s of stealth, your choice), then even more stealth if you're running d\p (I'm assuming you do) + unblockable blindness here and there 'cause why tf shouldn't we add some more defensive options to thief they don't have anything, + swipe being an unblockable instacast ranged CC that bypasses stab and with the traits has a fairly low recharge time as well.

    Forgot anything?

    INB4 you're talking about daredevil not core thief. Yes I am.

    as I said like 100 times before its problem of D/P weapon set, other weapon sets doesn't have that huge impact

    Man its obviously u dont like teef weapon kits that include pistols or I'm betting rifle, that's ok as everyone dislikes the playstyles of some kits.

    Man , go play other weapon sets, then d/p then other again then d/p .After this manipulations look how bad you are and how op is d/p over other weapon sets. There no skill in spam blind from shadowshot and blackpowder , zero skill

    I play all weapon sets and do well on all but d/d builds so.......playing other weapon sets other than d/p doesn't make me feel like I'm bad, that may be just a u issue. Maybe practice a bit more on other builds.

    waiting for better proofs instead of just words , because playing on bronze with other weapon sets for you is fine

  • @Moradorin.6217 said:
    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    Why you put a WvW video on a SPvP Forum, what is wrong with you?

  • Terrorhuz.4695Terrorhuz.4695 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 1, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player clicking their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.


    various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (which they claim *DO NOT* exist) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too


    Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

    I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player clicking their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.


    various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (which they claim *DO NOT* exist) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too


    Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

    I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

    I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player clicking their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.


    various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (which they claim *DO NOT* exist) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too


    Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

    I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

    I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

    Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

    Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but anything that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2021

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:
    Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

    Maybe because it requires you to be behind a target? And it costs initiative or a utility to gain stealth in the first place? And Backstab does 2k damage which is half of a Reaper auto attack? and it cane be blocked, blinded, negated in every single way like all other abilities that require absolutely no set up at all? And the incredibly short range? need i continue?

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2021

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:
    You don't get revealed if you fail.

    Havn't played thief in 2 years. I went and edited my comment to correct that.

    But anyway, let me step back a bit because i attacked a strawman and failed to even focus on what's important about your comment.

    Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap,

    Firstly, this comment is just extremely biased and its no surprise i fell for this strawman cause it wasn't so obvious. Thief is not just "stealth into backstab for 15 minutes." I think if you actually fought good thieves, you'd realize how wrong of a statement this is. I honestly don't really know what to say to you because i think you just won't understand it. But Cluster2 was a thing, Predicting Steal is a thing, using mirage cloak icon as a way to always land steal is a thing (also landing steal in general on all classes is a thing) Clutch Impact Strikes were a thing...i mean i could go on and on about all the things on thief that take skill to pull off, and these are the non-obvious ones that exclude the more rudimentary things like not dying in mid from being sneezed on.

    Anyway id put 300g's on it right now, I'd send you to the shadow realm on my necro if all you did was stealth into backstab.

    like i told the other guy...go do that in ranked and see how far you get doing stealth+backstab spam and record a video for all of us to see.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    this thief doesnt even use steal lol. hes like me, made a ranger and forget to use the pet

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player clicking their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.


    various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (which they claim *DO NOT* exist) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too


    Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

    I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

    I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

    Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

    Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but anything that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

    Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

    Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:
    Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

    Maybe because it requires you to be behind a target? and you get revealed if you fail? And it costs initiative or a utility to gain stealth in the first place? And Backstab does 2k damage which is half of a Reaper auto attack? and it cane be blocked, blinded, negated in every single way like all other abilities that require absolutely no set up at all? And the incredibly short range? need i continue?

    "Behind" = 75% of the FOV. You don't get revealed if you fail. Steath costs ini, but shadow rejuvenation grants a lot of ini regeneration. Backstab doesn't deal 2k; I generically get hit for 5, which for a skill with 0 cost isn't exactly bad

    Oh boy. So much wrong here. Where to begin. "Behind" is just that. Behind. Its the 180 degrees on their back. Thats still something to keep in mind. "You don't get revealed if you fail", true, but you do get a 1 second cooldown which is a big problem. So big that it originally killed stealth attacks alltogether when it came out. "Steath costs ini, but shadow rejuvenation grants a lot of ini regeneration", no it really doesnt. It's essentially 1 initiative per attempt to stealth. It doesnt even come close to recovering the cost. And thats assuming the thief is using it. Backstab doesnt do 2k, but it also doesnt do 5k either. Usually it does 4k. Often times 3k. For a skill with 9 initiative cost (did you forget stealth isnt free) thats very little.

  • Terrorhuz.4695Terrorhuz.4695 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 2, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player clicking their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.


    various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (which they claim *DO NOT* exist) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too


    Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

    I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

    I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

    Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

    Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but anything that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

    Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

    Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

    Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player clicking their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.


    various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (which they claim *DO NOT* exist) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too


    Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

    I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

    I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

    Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

    Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but anything that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

    Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

    Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

    Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

    Yea I would agree. Ele arguably has allot more low risk options, and others too. I think you may miss understand, the point was that thief has ALLOT of reset potential. I never attempted to say thief is OP or that I wana see thief nerfs. So Im not sure what the point of your response is nor do I see any point in doing what your propose.

    Again, the best thing all u thieves can do if you dont want more nerfs is to chill out and stop attacking people who make reasonable points about your class. If anything you are liable to point out the remaining strengths of your class, which from my experience leads to more nerfs. Just some friendly advice.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player clicking their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.


    various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (which they claim *DO NOT* exist) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too


    Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

    I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

    I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

    Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

    Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but anything that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

    Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

    Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

    Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

    So you concede that your original logic was in fact stupid, since you reduced an entire class down to one facet of it? That was the whole point.

  • @UNOwen.7132 said:

    Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

    So you concede that your original logic was in fact stupid, since you reduced an entire class down to one facet of it? That was the whole point.

    he's purposefully manipulating the burden of proof from "provide thief video" to "provide Ele video" lmao.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2021

    I'm no PvP expert, but I would like to offer a different take on this discussion.

    Perhaps the reason for the controversy has to do with thief's design more so than its strength. In short, when fighting against a thief, a player is liable to feel as if they have little agency over the situation.

    It fees good when you're able to execute an action, however difficult, and force your opponent into a disadvantageous position as a direct result of that action. When you're able to "force" mistakes out of your opponent, allowing you to kill them even in the scenario in which they play the fight well.

    However, when fighting thief, it often ends up feeling one of two ways. Either:

    1. A thief can force mistakes out of you via skilled play, but you must wait for the thief to mess up. (thief has agency. non-thief does not)

    or

    1. Neither of you can force a mistake out of the other, leading to an unrewarding and frustrating fight on both sides. (neither side has agency)

    It leads to a feeling of powerlessness when fighting good thieves. You can't run from them because they're faster than you. You can't chase them because they have phenominal reset potential. You lack agency in this scenario, and you're forced to pray on the weaknesses of the human behind the class rather than the class itself. Hope they eventually grow impatient, sloppy, or careless and let you kill them.

    Where contention lies is that thief could be all of these things, yet still be as weak as a kitten. Hence, thieves complaining that the class cannot possibly be overpowered.
    "Lol imagine complaining about thief when backstabs hit for 2k" or "I can whail away at a Necro for 2 straight minutes and his healthbar doesn't move".

    I'm curious to know how others feel about this. All of this is purely conjecture based on what I've heard as well as my own experience.

  • @Kuma.1503 said:

    Hey Kuma glad your trying to bring the conversation into a more civil realm.

    Personally, I think people's frustrations come from #2 in your post. People can't engage or disengage from a thief on their terms. It's common knowledge because they have the best mobility. Balance patches have messed up things, and so classes that us-to be able to do damage to a thief can't anymore...and so we have harder to kill thieves with good mobility. The balance has basically dumbed down the game to make not just thief but all classes less risky to play.

    Thing is that thief was screwed by the balance patch and massacred it's damage. Before the idea was that thief should be able to kill another thief...now thieves can't kill each other and can reset if they want cause damage isn't high enough.

    The build's suck, nothing does anything of real consequence anymore basically. So ya someone can play DP backstab, but the most you will be doing is evading, running away and decapping and that's it, their damage is so low, and their tolerance for reset is so low that after hitting a target once or twice they already have to disengage a fight...it's really just a joke what happened to thief and the overall balance of the game.

    That is my personal thoughts...nothing objective there.

  • Kuma.1503Kuma.1503 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2021

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Kuma.1503 said:

    Hey Kuma glad your trying to bring the conversation into a more civil realm.

    Personally, I think people's frustrations come from #2 in your post. People can't engage or disengage from a thief on their terms. It's common knowledge because they have the best mobility. Balance patches have messed up things, and so classes that us-to be able to do damage to a thief can't anymore...and so we have harder to kill thieves with good mobility. The balance has basically dumbed down the game to make not just thief but all classes less risky to play.

    Thing is that thief was screwed by the balance patch and massacred it's damage. Before the idea was that thief should be able to kill another thief...now thieves can't kill each other and can reset if they want cause damage isn't high enough.

    The build's suck, nothing does anything of real consequence anymore basically. So ya someone can play DP backstab, but the most you will be doing is evading, running away and decapping and that's it, their damage is so low, and their tolerance for reset is so low that after hitting a target once or twice they already have to disengage a fight...it's really just a joke what happened to thief and the overall balance of the game.

    That is my personal thoughts...nothing objective there.

    I reckon that might be a big cause for the disagreement. If thief can only afford to take 1 or 2 hits before it's forced to disengage, then that does not leave the opponent with much time to interact with the thief. You can expect the thief to attempt to avoid taking damage altogether by utilizing stealth, mobility, blinds, and evades, and by the time you've manged to deal some damage to them, they're already planning their grand exit.

    At the same time, the thief is forced to undergo this elaborate dance in order to stay alive, all while doing chip damage to targets far more durable than they are. I don't think it's very fun for the thief to whack away at a necro with 20k hp and shroud watching him continue to survive off of little more than raw stats. It's like "I'm doing all this work, but for what?"

    Bumping damage game wide would be a start. Aside from being a welcome change, it would make engagements with thieves more lethal on both sides

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Good god this chat is terrible. Here’s an opinion- thief is garbage teir rn. The feb patch made any thing but the stealth spam builds unplayable, and now that’s pigeoned holed by stealth + mobility nerfs and severely under performs. Get over it, thief was meta as a fing might as well since it can be all over at once and now it’s trash teir cuz it’s a dead all over at once now.

  • McPero.3287McPero.3287 Member ✭✭✭

    I have 38% win rate on Revenant so Anet needs to buff Revenant.

  • Styros.8931Styros.8931 Member ✭✭✭

    @Math.5123 said:

    @darren.1064 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    Are you sure this is the video you wanted to show? It seems to me like it shows that even against Thieves best matchup by a wide margin, condi mesmer (Plasma is OP), the thief had absolutely no hope of ever killing you. The best he could do is run away and survive, and if he stayed to fight, he would always have died, as he did in the end. And thats even against a player clicking their skills, which is highly inefficient to the point of giving the thief a massive advantage he usually wont have in a fight. Now of course, this is in WvW, not sPvP, so thieves advantage of being the fastest decapper and +1er is non-existent, and yeah, thief isnt any good in WvW, hence why despite the inherent popularity of rogue classes, nowadays you dont see a lot of thieves in WvW.


    various thief players screaming frantically to explain how losing 3/4 times in a row but being basically unpunished 'cause of the hundred thousand save-my-butt buttons (which they claim *DO NOT* exist) is balanced, healthy, cool and overall requires thief to be buffed 'cause come on, being able to reset whenever you lose is not enough, you need to be able to deal a kitten ton of damage too


    Thief is a class with a high skill cap but an absolute kitten pepega took 2:30 minutes of pounding before he finally went down, making mistakes that on any other class would have been instadeath; the guy got killed by absolute chance

    I wish I could play the easy mode too but I don't like thief :(

    I get the feeling you replied to the wrong thing? I mean then again, it seems youre just the newest flavour of burnfall, blind hatred of thief while simultaniously having clearly no clue about thief whatsoever.

    Again: played thief, left it early on 'cause it was unpunishable and I was disgusted by how deeply easy and with no depth the gameplay was. Thief players on this forum act as if stealth into backstab for 15 minutes until someone dies is high skill cap, I renew my invitation to play a real class -any real class- and see if you can get away with the kitten thief lets you do.

    Mate I've not even been playing thief in over a year. Im an Engineer player (core engineer specifically, which I'd wager is one of the hardest builds around in general). Thief aint easy. Easier than Engineer, yes, but anything that isnt some ele builds is easier than Engineer.

    Someone has yet to explain in which universe stealth into backstab for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it.

    Because thats just one tiny thing of the many things thief does? Thats like saying "Someone has yet to explain in which universe Plasma Beam into Arcane Blast and Lightning Strike for 15 minutes is high skill cap, 'cause for the life of me I can't understand it." Or hell, Prestige into Cry of Frustration. Because its a stupid statement meant by someone who clearly fails to understand even the absolute fundamentals of thief.

    Try failing a burst with a d\p thief, then try failing a burst with a fresh air ele, come back to this forum and report to the rest of the community what happens when you fail and CAN'T reset 100 times.

    tRy FaiLiNg a BuRsT oN D/P tHiEF anD tHeN Go BuTtOn MaSH oN NeCRo foR 2000% MoRe DaMaGe aNd MoRe SurViVabIliTY, CoMe BacK To ThIs FoRuM aNd RePoRt To ThE ReSt oF the CoMMuNi... CoMmMuni... CoMmUniTttty WhaT HapPenS WhEn yoU faIl and CaN"T ReSet 100 TimEs

    how'd I do?

    Imagine thinking necro has better survivability than thief. Good times.

    yeah actually funny guy. D/P have endless unblock blind + cleanse after dodge because DD . Literally don't understand why d/p thiefs cry