Can you prove with video thief is strong, not the pro streamer, but YOUR video? - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Can you prove with video thief is strong, not the pro streamer, but YOUR video?

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  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    Usually a competent thief would win that match-up or be able to get away. The mesmer has a chance to kill the thief because it has very low hp so if the opponent can cc in time, that is, basically stun 2-3 times then burst they can squish the thief; Likewise if they stun/rupt and burst while the thief is dealing with breaking and next move than the opponent can win. However, as we all know, a good thief knows this and plans for it. That is unless they are playing sloppy. the mindful thief would plan for that and make sure it has a strategy to win and disengage if something fails. That is what thieves do. They pick out a good target, attack and either get a quick kill or reset when the opponent is not what the thief thought they reset and vanish into the mist, Thief is the best at doing this.

    How can you talk about what a competent thief would do when you still skill click, and backpeddle. You are not in the bracket where you even understand what a competent thief can or would do...ill explain

    Firstly, Majority of thief you see in Ranked will not take on a 1v1 on any class unless it's Mesmer. The only reason they decide to do this is because of stealing ecto, and using the ecto give self resistance. This resistance helps sustain condition damage to negate pressure against a condition Mesmer. Ecto is literally the only reason they stick around in the fight. If thief misses steal and can't secure the ecto, they will disengage, because they DO NOT have the capacity to sustain any kind of condition pressure. If they miss Steal on Mesmer, especially a Mirage, it's a sign of inexp thieves that hasn't learned how to fight a mesmer. (Or in the rare case, fights a really good mesmer that knows how to stack dodges or predict steal)

    Ecto has now been nerfed, so i don't even know if the above is even applicable anymore, but prior to ecto nerf, this was the decision basis for thief in ranked, and really any 1v1 between mesmer-thief.

    As for other classes, exp thieves will at least learn how to duel these classes so that when they need to burst these classes, they will know what to avoid as counter pressure, and when to apply their damage. This is why almost all vet thieves know each other...because we duel all the time. Duel Arena being empty and dead, is a sign that all the vet thieves have left.

    In other words, thief has to know 10x more knowledge about the game in order to actually play it well, whereas, you can skill click and backpeddle and abuse clone ai to land your damage on any class with relative ease.

    So your argument is that the plat soldier (over 3500 rank) who attacked me lost because thief is weak, because according to you, me ,the guy who won 2x, is a noob (im rank 900) and the poor inexperienced thief (plat rank and instigated attack every time) died due to lack of experience to the less skilled mesmer.... Your argument really has zero merit. I would say what I think of you but then this would get deleted.

    By ecto do you mean plasma? I know you said yourself you no longer play. Maybe your information is out of date?

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021

    Again, Thief has a hell of allot of reset potential, thief has agency, when a thief loses to a player with 1/4 the equivalent rank in that game mode and they choose to ambush that player with a thief, they are 100% responsible for what ever happens win or lose. Can I have some crack too??

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing by choice. Class broken because it can run away".

    Isn't this what you've just said?

    Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =)

    In what way what you said doesn't mean what I said? Explain what you meant then. You were supposed to show thief being op [while playing it], but all you did was link to a vid [from a different mode btw] where you win against thief twice and then claimed "thief lost by choice". Apparently that "choice" being "actually fighting".

    The thief for SURE lost by choice. My post talking about that is VERY clear. You are obviously looking for an agument and hoping to miss represent facts to do it.

    The thief lost by choice because in the video you can literally see the thief stealth and reset out of range many many times. Each time the thief has the option to leave the fight if it ever felt it might lose or was in a losing match-up. Therefore, as I said before the thief was arguably being lazy and assuming it would get the kill because its probably used to face-rolling over Mesmer and others. In other words, the thief CHOSE to ambush me and had multiple chances to leave the fight and live if it ever thought it was in a losing fight. So obviously it thought it was in a winning fight and was wrong. That means it was 100% the thief's choice/mistake all the way from start to finish. Its extremely clear and not even really debatable.

    ...so you think he "lost by choice because he didn't run away". Not sure why you've tried calling me a troll and then repeated what I said (and what you said before).

    You try to say "the thief thought he was in a winning fight" based on what exactly? Based on the fact that he didn't "run away for good," despite needing to disengage multiple times to not die earlier? That's hilarious. Absolutely make sure to tell me where that conclusion came from.
    And the fact that whenever he disengaged and re-engaged, you also had the time to heal up is somehow irrelvant here? It's almost as if he taking his time also give you time to do whatever you want to do and helped you stand your ground.
    You say that "he's used to face-rolling over mesmer and others", but somehow he didn't faceroll you? Why exactly? Why is the thief using stealth or running unfair, but you utilizing your mechanic and standing between your clones is perfectly fine? Running isn't winning, not even close. Even moreso in pvp gamemode btw.

    You really make no sense.

    At which part exactly? (inb4 "all of it" which is not a valid answer, but just an effort to escape facts you don't like :( )

    I was standing still typing in chat, thief stealth attacks me and stealth again so quick that clones cannot reach thief. the thief keeps stealthing and attacking a mostly stationary target (me) who didn't instigate the attack or chase the thief. Repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief because it can restealth so fast after attacks that Mirage (me) almost cannot hit the thief. The thief does significant damage to my Trailblazer Mirage. The thief can reset over and over.

    "stealths and attack a mostly stationary target who didn't instigate the attack"? "repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief?" "significant dmg"? You were at 16k+ hp for vast majority of that fight.
    It's pretty funny because your description here is just a plain lie, maybe you should rewatch your own video before trying to talk back?

    10:02 -start of the fight, thief deals 7k of free dmg because -just like you said- you stand in the middle of wvw and type (not sure how that's supposed to play into you trying to show thief is op, but ok :lol: )
    10:22 -you're already at about the same hp %. Thief stealths, but still takes some condi dmg, now he's at lower hp % (and just flat lower hp, but that was true since the start of the fight, so w/e) than you are. Good job achieving that while claiming the thief is impossible to hit I guess?
    Now you're just standing behind the clones, waiting for the thief to appear/re-engage. Which he does and so he takes more dmg going from 60%+ hp to 20%. All that not exactly by you somehow outplaying him or presenting some hightened gamesense with exceptional mouse-skill-clicking reflexes, but mostly by standing near your clones (which, as you claim, can't even hit the thief -must be magic).
    Thief burns heal and stealths, because he already almost died, while you're still at >16k hp. The fight resets for both of you and at this point... so much for your "he thought he'll easly win theory, when he pretty much already lost once and had to run away.

    Then he re-engages again, tries to burst you, he can't, you stand by the clones, yaddayaddayadda, same story as before, goes down to 11% hp, while you're still at 13k. At this point he disengages again, but you actually even get out of combat first to heal back to full hp when he's still at below 40%. Now YOU engage him, he barely touches you and dies because you're clearly some kind of skill-clicking condi mirage god or something xd

    What kinda stuff are you smoking? I might like some too! Blather on all u like though about thief.

    Aww buddy -pretty clearly if anyone's "smoking something" here, it's not me. Keep making your own reality despite the video you've posted by yourself.

    As you said, I pointed out and then you confirmed again: the thief "lost by choice", because he chose to participate in a fight while in wvw instead of running away and pveing camps I guess.

    So when I go from like 24k to 16k each attack, thats not significant damage? smoke some more crack. BTW I could really give a kitten about this thief if your problem. I just posted a video as an example of thieves high reset potential.

    You are just a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better. As I said before. Keep it up you may just find you bring yet, MORE unwanted attention from Anet about thief balance and get yet more nerfs. (none of which I asked for or suggested)

    Go smoke a little more crack.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing by choice. Class broken because it can run away".

    Isn't this what you've just said?

    Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =)

    In what way what you said doesn't mean what I said? Explain what you meant then. You were supposed to show thief being op [while playing it], but all you did was link to a vid [from a different mode btw] where you win against thief twice and then claimed "thief lost by choice". Apparently that "choice" being "actually fighting".

    The thief for SURE lost by choice. My post talking about that is VERY clear. You are obviously looking for an agument and hoping to miss represent facts to do it.

    The thief lost by choice because in the video you can literally see the thief stealth and reset out of range many many times. Each time the thief has the option to leave the fight if it ever felt it might lose or was in a losing match-up. Therefore, as I said before the thief was arguably being lazy and assuming it would get the kill because its probably used to face-rolling over Mesmer and others. In other words, the thief CHOSE to ambush me and had multiple chances to leave the fight and live if it ever thought it was in a losing fight. So obviously it thought it was in a winning fight and was wrong. That means it was 100% the thief's choice/mistake all the way from start to finish. Its extremely clear and not even really debatable.

    ...so you think he "lost by choice because he didn't run away". Not sure why you've tried calling me a troll and then repeated what I said (and what you said before).

    You try to say "the thief thought he was in a winning fight" based on what exactly? Based on the fact that he didn't "run away for good," despite needing to disengage multiple times to not die earlier? That's hilarious. Absolutely make sure to tell me where that conclusion came from.
    And the fact that whenever he disengaged and re-engaged, you also had the time to heal up is somehow irrelvant here? It's almost as if he taking his time also give you time to do whatever you want to do and helped you stand your ground.
    You say that "he's used to face-rolling over mesmer and others", but somehow he didn't faceroll you? Why exactly? Why is the thief using stealth or running unfair, but you utilizing your mechanic and standing between your clones is perfectly fine? Running isn't winning, not even close. Even moreso in pvp gamemode btw.

    You really make no sense.

    At which part exactly? (inb4 "all of it" which is not a valid answer, but just an effort to escape facts you don't like :( )

    I was standing still typing in chat, thief stealth attacks me and stealth again so quick that clones cannot reach thief. the thief keeps stealthing and attacking a mostly stationary target (me) who didn't instigate the attack or chase the thief. Repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief because it can restealth so fast after attacks that Mirage (me) almost cannot hit the thief. The thief does significant damage to my Trailblazer Mirage. The thief can reset over and over.

    "stealths and attack a mostly stationary target who didn't instigate the attack"? "repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief?" "significant dmg"? You were at 16k+ hp for vast majority of that fight.
    It's pretty funny because your description here is just a plain lie, maybe you should rewatch your own video before trying to talk back?

    10:02 -start of the fight, thief deals 7k of free dmg because -just like you said- you stand in the middle of wvw and type (not sure how that's supposed to play into you trying to show thief is op, but ok :lol: )
    10:22 -you're already at about the same hp %. Thief stealths, but still takes some condi dmg, now he's at lower hp % (and just flat lower hp, but that was true since the start of the fight, so w/e) than you are. Good job achieving that while claiming the thief is impossible to hit I guess?
    Now you're just standing behind the clones, waiting for the thief to appear/re-engage. Which he does and so he takes more dmg going from 60%+ hp to 20%. All that not exactly by you somehow outplaying him or presenting some hightened gamesense with exceptional mouse-skill-clicking reflexes, but mostly by standing near your clones (which, as you claim, can't even hit the thief -must be magic).
    Thief burns heal and stealths, because he already almost died, while you're still at >16k hp. The fight resets for both of you and at this point... so much for your "he thought he'll easly win theory, when he pretty much already lost once and had to run away.

    Then he re-engages again, tries to burst you, he can't, you stand by the clones, yaddayaddayadda, same story as before, goes down to 11% hp, while you're still at 13k. At this point he disengages again, but you actually even get out of combat first to heal back to full hp when he's still at below 40%. Now YOU engage him, he barely touches you and dies because you're clearly some kind of skill-clicking condi mirage god or something xd

    What kinda stuff are you smoking? I might like some too! Blather on all u like though about thief.

    Aww buddy -pretty clearly if anyone's "smoking something" here, it's not me. Keep making your own reality despite the video you've posted by yourself.

    As you said, I pointed out and then you confirmed again: the thief "lost by choice", because he chose to participate in a fight while in wvw instead of running away and pveing camps I guess.

    So when I go from like 24k to 16k each attack, thats not significant damage? smoke some more crack. BTW I could really give a kitten about this thief if your problem. I just posted a video as an example of thieves high reset potential.

    You are just a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better. As I said before. Keep it up you may just find you bring yet, MORE unwanted attention from Anet about thief balance and get yet more nerfs. (none of which I asked for or suggested)

    Go smoke a little more crack.

    Buddy, stop spamming with "woah you smoke crack!" when you don't have anything of value to respond with.
    Take a few deeper breaths, re-read what I wrote (while you're at it, maybe even re-read your own post I was answering to, just to make sure I am actually responding to what you said, which I do) and answer with something relevant. If you want to randomize insults, look somewhere else.

    You're the one person in this thread that keeps constantly insulting others instead of answering to the contents of their msgs in at least last few of your posts -so much for being "a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better". For real, re-read last few posts and take a good look at yourself in light of what you just wrote.

    Here is a list of the reasons you are wrong in list form to make it simple.

    1) thief is MUCH higher rank
    2) thief keeps resetting out of my combat range.
    2a if I chase I use up my only mobility which is also one of 2 stun breaks.
    2b At this point the thief is free to find a new target or wait for another attack opportunity.
    3) the thief does enough damage to kill me given the chance which is why its attacking.
    4) the thief instigated the fight from stealth ambush on a trailblazer Mirage which the thief's mistake if anyone's.
    5) My entire damage burst on the thief was from confusion which means when the thief goes down its actually from them choosing to activate skills which leads to them taking bust level damage.
    6) the point of my post was to respond to another post about thief having high reset potential in wvw to the point that people complain about it.
    7) You seem to wana nit pick my input methods for skill activation rather than talk about the actual subject.

    Im not going to explain everything to someone who I think is just looking for some kind of soft target. You no valid counter argument.

    You seem to want to counter the fact that thief has massive reset potential by saying, in effect, No your wrong thief is so badly under powered it couldn't possibly kill a Mirage because the thief lost. That isn't a counter argument to the fact that thieves high reset potential or that ultimately means the thief chose to fight and stay in the fight to the loss and had other options that would have let the thief escape the fight it started if it didnt wana be in that fight. PARTICULARLY, when you take into account Im running a built that is using CONFUSION for its burst meaning they had to activate skills to get hurt like they did.....

    eye roll

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing by choice. Class broken because it can run away".

    Isn't this what you've just said?

    Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =)

    In what way what you said doesn't mean what I said? Explain what you meant then. You were supposed to show thief being op [while playing it], but all you did was link to a vid [from a different mode btw] where you win against thief twice and then claimed "thief lost by choice". Apparently that "choice" being "actually fighting".

    The thief for SURE lost by choice. My post talking about that is VERY clear. You are obviously looking for an agument and hoping to miss represent facts to do it.

    The thief lost by choice because in the video you can literally see the thief stealth and reset out of range many many times. Each time the thief has the option to leave the fight if it ever felt it might lose or was in a losing match-up. Therefore, as I said before the thief was arguably being lazy and assuming it would get the kill because its probably used to face-rolling over Mesmer and others. In other words, the thief CHOSE to ambush me and had multiple chances to leave the fight and live if it ever thought it was in a losing fight. So obviously it thought it was in a winning fight and was wrong. That means it was 100% the thief's choice/mistake all the way from start to finish. Its extremely clear and not even really debatable.

    ...so you think he "lost by choice because he didn't run away". Not sure why you've tried calling me a troll and then repeated what I said (and what you said before).

    You try to say "the thief thought he was in a winning fight" based on what exactly? Based on the fact that he didn't "run away for good," despite needing to disengage multiple times to not die earlier? That's hilarious. Absolutely make sure to tell me where that conclusion came from.
    And the fact that whenever he disengaged and re-engaged, you also had the time to heal up is somehow irrelvant here? It's almost as if he taking his time also give you time to do whatever you want to do and helped you stand your ground.
    You say that "he's used to face-rolling over mesmer and others", but somehow he didn't faceroll you? Why exactly? Why is the thief using stealth or running unfair, but you utilizing your mechanic and standing between your clones is perfectly fine? Running isn't winning, not even close. Even moreso in pvp gamemode btw.

    You really make no sense.

    At which part exactly? (inb4 "all of it" which is not a valid answer, but just an effort to escape facts you don't like :( )

    I was standing still typing in chat, thief stealth attacks me and stealth again so quick that clones cannot reach thief. the thief keeps stealthing and attacking a mostly stationary target (me) who didn't instigate the attack or chase the thief. Repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief because it can restealth so fast after attacks that Mirage (me) almost cannot hit the thief. The thief does significant damage to my Trailblazer Mirage. The thief can reset over and over.

    "stealths and attack a mostly stationary target who didn't instigate the attack"? "repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief?" "significant dmg"? You were at 16k+ hp for vast majority of that fight.
    It's pretty funny because your description here is just a plain lie, maybe you should rewatch your own video before trying to talk back?

    10:02 -start of the fight, thief deals 7k of free dmg because -just like you said- you stand in the middle of wvw and type (not sure how that's supposed to play into you trying to show thief is op, but ok :lol: )
    10:22 -you're already at about the same hp %. Thief stealths, but still takes some condi dmg, now he's at lower hp % (and just flat lower hp, but that was true since the start of the fight, so w/e) than you are. Good job achieving that while claiming the thief is impossible to hit I guess?
    Now you're just standing behind the clones, waiting for the thief to appear/re-engage. Which he does and so he takes more dmg going from 60%+ hp to 20%. All that not exactly by you somehow outplaying him or presenting some hightened gamesense with exceptional mouse-skill-clicking reflexes, but mostly by standing near your clones (which, as you claim, can't even hit the thief -must be magic).
    Thief burns heal and stealths, because he already almost died, while you're still at >16k hp. The fight resets for both of you and at this point... so much for your "he thought he'll easly win theory, when he pretty much already lost once and had to run away.

    Then he re-engages again, tries to burst you, he can't, you stand by the clones, yaddayaddayadda, same story as before, goes down to 11% hp, while you're still at 13k. At this point he disengages again, but you actually even get out of combat first to heal back to full hp when he's still at below 40%. Now YOU engage him, he barely touches you and dies because you're clearly some kind of skill-clicking condi mirage god or something xd

    What kinda stuff are you smoking? I might like some too! Blather on all u like though about thief.

    Aww buddy -pretty clearly if anyone's "smoking something" here, it's not me. Keep making your own reality despite the video you've posted by yourself.

    As you said, I pointed out and then you confirmed again: the thief "lost by choice", because he chose to participate in a fight while in wvw instead of running away and pveing camps I guess.

    So when I go from like 24k to 16k each attack, thats not significant damage? smoke some more crack. BTW I could really give a kitten about this thief if your problem. I just posted a video as an example of thieves high reset potential.

    You are just a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better. As I said before. Keep it up you may just find you bring yet, MORE unwanted attention from Anet about thief balance and get yet more nerfs. (none of which I asked for or suggested)

    Go smoke a little more crack.

    Buddy, stop spamming with "woah you smoke crack!" when you don't have anything of value to respond with.
    Take a few deeper breaths, re-read what I wrote (while you're at it, maybe even re-read your own post I was answering to, just to make sure I am actually responding to what you said, which I do) and answer with something relevant. If you want to randomize insults, look somewhere else.

    You're the one person in this thread that keeps constantly insulting others instead of answering to the contents of their msgs in at least last few of your posts -so much for being "a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better". For real, re-read last few posts and take a good look at yourself in light of what you just wrote.

    Here is a list of the reasons you are wrong in list form to make it simple.

    Great.

    1) thief is MUCH higher rank

    Rank is mostly irrelevant and can be farmed by running in zergs and spamming aoes. WvW rank isn't an equivalent of some sort of literal "ranked ladder". We're discussing certain mechanics and classes, in this case based on a specific situation from the video you've posted. Respond accordingly, instead of taking shortcuts by claiming rank is a factor here.

    2) thief keeps resetting out of my combat range
    2a if I chase I use up my only mobility which is also one of 2 stun breaks.
    2b At this point the thief is free to find a new target or wait for another attack opportunity.

    Then... don't chase. What's the problem here? Thief uses resources to run and then uses resources to go in if you're not playing like thief wants you to play. You stood your ground and he didn't do much. Then YOU engaged when you went OOC before the thief and were able to kill him. So what's the problem? That you can't just blindly chase someone without thinking? Being able to stand your ground instead of running away is even more relevant if we' remember we're in pvp mode subforum.
    Once again, "running away" is far from winning. And willingness to fight 1v1 is far from "losing by choice".

    3) the thief does enough damage to kill me given the chance which is why its attacking.

    I don't know what this point is supposed to be responding to. We saw he wasn't able to kill you despite getting initial free shots due to you literally standing in the middle of wvw and typing. "The class does enough dmg to have a chance of winning" -well it sure better have a chance or what's the point here? It's still not an equivalent of you claiming "he was sure to have an easy kill", which most probably wasn't the case judging how the fight went for an extended period of time.

    4) the thief instigated the fight from stealth ambush on a trailblazer Mirage which the thief's mistake if anyone's.

    So thief is so broken that he shouldn't fight your class because it's a loss? Again, I don't understand how this proves what OP asked you to prove.

    5) My entire damage burst on the thief was from confusion which means when the thief goes down its actually from them choosing to activate skills which leads to them taking bust level damage.

    I wonder how the thief is supposed to disengage without using skills. Again, what does this point change about this situation? That you can counter the disengage? That's the opposite of your initial claims and opposite of what OP was asking for.

    6) the point of my post was to respond to another post about thief having high reset potential in wvw to the point that people complain about it.

    No, don't try to change the facts again. What you were answering to was literally this thread's opening post, which you've even quoted:
    "I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift."

    To which you also wrote that:
    -"thief lost by choice" -AGAIN, apparently that "choice to lose" being not deciding to run away, which you constantly try to deny now, while also writing exactly that
    -"What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst." -yup, he is. And that's what he does. And the result doesn't change. Which in the pvp mode just means he's not capping the point from you. BUT HEY, that's only because I chose to have trailblazer so he can't easly burst me down! well, duh. You picked a build and now it's hard for the thief to win with you even if he disengages multiple times. Until you have that option available in the game, I'm not sure why you're complaining. One way or another, this video showed the opposite of what OP asked for.
    -"At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact." -that's false and I think I pointed that out sufficiently clear in the post where I gave you a little, uh, breakdown of your own replay. If the thief was not touched by your clones, he wouldn't need to constantly disengage in the first place, while in reality most of the time he had less hp than you did.
    -"Most of the time these fights go to the thief." -the thief tried dis-/re-engageing multiple times and the result was similar in every case. Play the thief and farm trailblazer mirages or something, then you'll do what OP asked for. Do you understand the difference between what was asked for and what you delivered/wrote about?

    7) You seem to wana nit pick my input methods for skill activation rather than talk about the actual subject.

    Yes, I totally "want to nit pick", which is why I'm responding to your posts as a whole, while you constantly dogde what I'm saying. Because your input method was clearly the main point of my posts here, ok.

    Im not going to explain everything to someone who I think is just looking for some kind of soft target. You no valid counter argument.

    No valid counter argument? I keep responding to what you write, I'm not sure what else you expect from a discussion -not only this, but literally any. Did I miss some crucial parts of your posts or lied about what happened in your video or about what you wrote? I don't think I did, but IF I did, then by all means make sure to point it out.

    You seem to want to counter the fact that thief has massive reset potential by saying, in effect, No your wrong thief is so badly under powered it couldn't possibly kill a Mirage because the thief lost. That isn't a counter argument to the fact that thieves high reset potential or that ultimately means the thief chose to fight and stay in the fight to the loss and had other options that would have let the thief escape the fight it started if it didnt wana be in that fight. PARTICULARLY, when you take into account Im running a built that is using CONFUSION for its burst meaning they had to activate skills to get hurt like they did.....

    That's by far not what I said. I said that engaging in a fight isn't choosing to lose. That running isn't winning (even moreso in pvp). That what you linked and wrote isn't an answer to what OP asked for.
    Yes, the thief used skills. Tell me how he was supposed to try to disengage without doing that.
    Also if I tried to claim that "thief is so badly underpowered it couldn't possibly kill a [whatever]", you can be sure I'd be lobbying for some teef buffs, which I'm not doing -not here and not anywhere. So that seems like a miss to me.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing by choice. Class broken because it can run away".

    Isn't this what you've just said?

    Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =)

    In what way what you said doesn't mean what I said? Explain what you meant then. You were supposed to show thief being op [while playing it], but all you did was link to a vid [from a different mode btw] where you win against thief twice and then claimed "thief lost by choice". Apparently that "choice" being "actually fighting".

    The thief for SURE lost by choice. My post talking about that is VERY clear. You are obviously looking for an agument and hoping to miss represent facts to do it.

    The thief lost by choice because in the video you can literally see the thief stealth and reset out of range many many times. Each time the thief has the option to leave the fight if it ever felt it might lose or was in a losing match-up. Therefore, as I said before the thief was arguably being lazy and assuming it would get the kill because its probably used to face-rolling over Mesmer and others. In other words, the thief CHOSE to ambush me and had multiple chances to leave the fight and live if it ever thought it was in a losing fight. So obviously it thought it was in a winning fight and was wrong. That means it was 100% the thief's choice/mistake all the way from start to finish. Its extremely clear and not even really debatable.

    ...so you think he "lost by choice because he didn't run away". Not sure why you've tried calling me a troll and then repeated what I said (and what you said before).

    You try to say "the thief thought he was in a winning fight" based on what exactly? Based on the fact that he didn't "run away for good," despite needing to disengage multiple times to not die earlier? That's hilarious. Absolutely make sure to tell me where that conclusion came from.
    And the fact that whenever he disengaged and re-engaged, you also had the time to heal up is somehow irrelvant here? It's almost as if he taking his time also give you time to do whatever you want to do and helped you stand your ground.
    You say that "he's used to face-rolling over mesmer and others", but somehow he didn't faceroll you? Why exactly? Why is the thief using stealth or running unfair, but you utilizing your mechanic and standing between your clones is perfectly fine? Running isn't winning, not even close. Even moreso in pvp gamemode btw.

    You really make no sense.

    At which part exactly? (inb4 "all of it" which is not a valid answer, but just an effort to escape facts you don't like :( )

    I was standing still typing in chat, thief stealth attacks me and stealth again so quick that clones cannot reach thief. the thief keeps stealthing and attacking a mostly stationary target (me) who didn't instigate the attack or chase the thief. Repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief because it can restealth so fast after attacks that Mirage (me) almost cannot hit the thief. The thief does significant damage to my Trailblazer Mirage. The thief can reset over and over.

    "stealths and attack a mostly stationary target who didn't instigate the attack"? "repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief?" "significant dmg"? You were at 16k+ hp for vast majority of that fight.
    It's pretty funny because your description here is just a plain lie, maybe you should rewatch your own video before trying to talk back?

    10:02 -start of the fight, thief deals 7k of free dmg because -just like you said- you stand in the middle of wvw and type (not sure how that's supposed to play into you trying to show thief is op, but ok :lol: )
    10:22 -you're already at about the same hp %. Thief stealths, but still takes some condi dmg, now he's at lower hp % (and just flat lower hp, but that was true since the start of the fight, so w/e) than you are. Good job achieving that while claiming the thief is impossible to hit I guess?
    Now you're just standing behind the clones, waiting for the thief to appear/re-engage. Which he does and so he takes more dmg going from 60%+ hp to 20%. All that not exactly by you somehow outplaying him or presenting some hightened gamesense with exceptional mouse-skill-clicking reflexes, but mostly by standing near your clones (which, as you claim, can't even hit the thief -must be magic).
    Thief burns heal and stealths, because he already almost died, while you're still at >16k hp. The fight resets for both of you and at this point... so much for your "he thought he'll easly win theory, when he pretty much already lost once and had to run away.

    Then he re-engages again, tries to burst you, he can't, you stand by the clones, yaddayaddayadda, same story as before, goes down to 11% hp, while you're still at 13k. At this point he disengages again, but you actually even get out of combat first to heal back to full hp when he's still at below 40%. Now YOU engage him, he barely touches you and dies because you're clearly some kind of skill-clicking condi mirage god or something xd

    What kinda stuff are you smoking? I might like some too! Blather on all u like though about thief.

    Aww buddy -pretty clearly if anyone's "smoking something" here, it's not me. Keep making your own reality despite the video you've posted by yourself.

    As you said, I pointed out and then you confirmed again: the thief "lost by choice", because he chose to participate in a fight while in wvw instead of running away and pveing camps I guess.

    So when I go from like 24k to 16k each attack, thats not significant damage? smoke some more crack. BTW I could really give a kitten about this thief if your problem. I just posted a video as an example of thieves high reset potential.

    You are just a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better. As I said before. Keep it up you may just find you bring yet, MORE unwanted attention from Anet about thief balance and get yet more nerfs. (none of which I asked for or suggested)

    Go smoke a little more crack.

    Buddy, stop spamming with "woah you smoke crack!" when you don't have anything of value to respond with.
    Take a few deeper breaths, re-read what I wrote (while you're at it, maybe even re-read your own post I was answering to, just to make sure I am actually responding to what you said, which I do) and answer with something relevant. If you want to randomize insults, look somewhere else.

    You're the one person in this thread that keeps constantly insulting others instead of answering to the contents of their msgs in at least last few of your posts -so much for being "a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better". For real, re-read last few posts and take a good look at yourself in light of what you just wrote.

    Here is a list of the reasons you are wrong in list form to make it simple.

    Great.

    1) thief is MUCH higher rank

    Rank is mostly irrelevant and can be farmed by running in zergs and spamming aoes. WvW rank isn't an equivalent of some sort of literal "ranked ladder". We're discussing certain mechanics and classes, in this case based on a specific situation from the video you've posted. Respond accordingly, instead of taking shortcuts by claiming rank is a factor here.

    2) thief keeps resetting out of my combat range
    2a if I chase I use up my only mobility which is also one of 2 stun breaks.
    2b At this point the thief is free to find a new target or wait for another attack opportunity.

    Then... don't chase. What's the problem here? Thief uses resources to run and then uses resources to go in if you're not playing like thief wants you to play. You stood your ground and he didn't do much. Then YOU engaged when you went OOC before the thief and were able to kill him. So what's the problem? That you can't just blindly chase someone without thinking? Being able to stand your ground instead of running away is even more relevant if we' remember we're in pvp mode subforum.
    Once again, "running away" is far from winning. And willingness to fight 1v1 is far from "losing by choice".

    3) the thief does enough damage to kill me given the chance which is why its attacking.

    I don't know what this point is supposed to be responding to. We saw he wasn't able to kill you despite getting initial free shots due to you literally standing in the middle of wvw and typing. "The class does enough dmg to have a chance of winning" -well it sure better have a chance or what's the point here? It's still not an equivalent of you claiming "he was sure to have an easy kill", which most probably wasn't the case judging how the fight went for an extended period of time.

    4) the thief instigated the fight from stealth ambush on a trailblazer Mirage which the thief's mistake if anyone's.

    So thief is so broken that he shouldn't fight your class because it's a loss? Again, I don't understand how this proves what OP asked you to prove.

    5) My entire damage burst on the thief was from confusion which means when the thief goes down its actually from them choosing to activate skills which leads to them taking bust level damage.

    I wonder how the thief is supposed to disengage without using skills. Again, what does this point change about this situation? That you can counter the disengage? That's the opposite of your initial claims and opposite of what OP was asking for.

    6) the point of my post was to respond to another post about thief having high reset potential in wvw to the point that people complain about it.

    No, don't try to change the facts again. What you were answering to was literally this thread's opening post, which you've even quoted:
    "I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift."

    To which you also wrote that:
    -"thief lost by choice" -AGAIN, apparently that "choice to lose" being not deciding to run away, which you constantly try to deny now, while also writing exactly that
    -"What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst." -yup, he is. And that's what he does. And the result doesn't change. Which in the pvp mode just means he's not capping the point from you. BUT HEY, that's only because I chose to have trailblazer so he can't easly burst me down! well, duh. You picked a build and now it's hard for the thief to win with you even if he disengages multiple times. Until you have that option available in the game, I'm not sure why you're complaining. One way or another, this video showed the opposite of what OP asked for.
    -"At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact." -that's false and I think I pointed that out sufficiently clear in the post where I gave you a little, uh, breakdown of your own replay. If the thief was not touched by your clones, he wouldn't need to constantly disengage in the first place, while in reality most of the time he had less hp than you did.
    -"Most of the time these fights go to the thief." -the thief tried dis-/re-engageing multiple times and the result was similar in every case. Play the thief and farm trailblazer mirages or something, then you'll do what OP asked for. Do you understand the difference between what was asked for and what you delivered/wrote about?

    7) You seem to wana nit pick my input methods for skill activation rather than talk about the actual subject.

    Yes, I totally "want to nit pick", which is why I'm responding to your posts as a whole, while you constantly dogde what I'm saying. Because your input method was clearly the main point of my posts here, ok.

    Im not going to explain everything to someone who I think is just looking for some kind of soft target. You no valid counter argument.

    No valid counter argument? I keep responding to what you write, I'm not sure what else you expect from a discussion -not only this, but literally any. Did I miss some crucial parts of your posts or lied about what happened in your video or about what you wrote? I don't think I did, but IF I did, then by all means make sure to point it out.

    You seem to want to counter the fact that thief has massive reset potential by saying, in effect, No your wrong thief is so badly under powered it couldn't possibly kill a Mirage because the thief lost. That isn't a counter argument to the fact that thieves high reset potential or that ultimately means the thief chose to fight and stay in the fight to the loss and had other options that would have let the thief escape the fight it started if it didnt wana be in that fight. PARTICULARLY, when you take into account Im running a built that is using CONFUSION for its burst meaning they had to activate skills to get hurt like they did.....

    That's by far not what I said. I said that engaging in a fight isn't choosing to lose. That running isn't winning (even moreso in pvp). That what you linked and wrote isn't an answer to what OP asked for.
    Yes, the thief used skills. Tell me how he was supposed to try to disengage without doing that.
    Also if I tried to claim that "thief is so badly underpowered it couldn't possibly kill a [whatever]", you can be sure I'd be lobbying for some teef buffs, which I'm not doing -not here and not anywhere. So that seems like a miss to me.

    It doesn't matter what I say you will continue to whine. I find it kinda funny.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing by choice. Class broken because it can run away".

    Isn't this what you've just said?

    Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =)

    In what way what you said doesn't mean what I said? Explain what you meant then. You were supposed to show thief being op [while playing it], but all you did was link to a vid [from a different mode btw] where you win against thief twice and then claimed "thief lost by choice". Apparently that "choice" being "actually fighting".

    The thief for SURE lost by choice. My post talking about that is VERY clear. You are obviously looking for an agument and hoping to miss represent facts to do it.

    The thief lost by choice because in the video you can literally see the thief stealth and reset out of range many many times. Each time the thief has the option to leave the fight if it ever felt it might lose or was in a losing match-up. Therefore, as I said before the thief was arguably being lazy and assuming it would get the kill because its probably used to face-rolling over Mesmer and others. In other words, the thief CHOSE to ambush me and had multiple chances to leave the fight and live if it ever thought it was in a losing fight. So obviously it thought it was in a winning fight and was wrong. That means it was 100% the thief's choice/mistake all the way from start to finish. Its extremely clear and not even really debatable.

    ...so you think he "lost by choice because he didn't run away". Not sure why you've tried calling me a troll and then repeated what I said (and what you said before).

    You try to say "the thief thought he was in a winning fight" based on what exactly? Based on the fact that he didn't "run away for good," despite needing to disengage multiple times to not die earlier? That's hilarious. Absolutely make sure to tell me where that conclusion came from.
    And the fact that whenever he disengaged and re-engaged, you also had the time to heal up is somehow irrelvant here? It's almost as if he taking his time also give you time to do whatever you want to do and helped you stand your ground.
    You say that "he's used to face-rolling over mesmer and others", but somehow he didn't faceroll you? Why exactly? Why is the thief using stealth or running unfair, but you utilizing your mechanic and standing between your clones is perfectly fine? Running isn't winning, not even close. Even moreso in pvp gamemode btw.

    You really make no sense.

    At which part exactly? (inb4 "all of it" which is not a valid answer, but just an effort to escape facts you don't like :( )

    I was standing still typing in chat, thief stealth attacks me and stealth again so quick that clones cannot reach thief. the thief keeps stealthing and attacking a mostly stationary target (me) who didn't instigate the attack or chase the thief. Repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief because it can restealth so fast after attacks that Mirage (me) almost cannot hit the thief. The thief does significant damage to my Trailblazer Mirage. The thief can reset over and over.

    "stealths and attack a mostly stationary target who didn't instigate the attack"? "repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief?" "significant dmg"? You were at 16k+ hp for vast majority of that fight.
    It's pretty funny because your description here is just a plain lie, maybe you should rewatch your own video before trying to talk back?

    10:02 -start of the fight, thief deals 7k of free dmg because -just like you said- you stand in the middle of wvw and type (not sure how that's supposed to play into you trying to show thief is op, but ok :lol: )
    10:22 -you're already at about the same hp %. Thief stealths, but still takes some condi dmg, now he's at lower hp % (and just flat lower hp, but that was true since the start of the fight, so w/e) than you are. Good job achieving that while claiming the thief is impossible to hit I guess?
    Now you're just standing behind the clones, waiting for the thief to appear/re-engage. Which he does and so he takes more dmg going from 60%+ hp to 20%. All that not exactly by you somehow outplaying him or presenting some hightened gamesense with exceptional mouse-skill-clicking reflexes, but mostly by standing near your clones (which, as you claim, can't even hit the thief -must be magic).
    Thief burns heal and stealths, because he already almost died, while you're still at >16k hp. The fight resets for both of you and at this point... so much for your "he thought he'll easly win theory, when he pretty much already lost once and had to run away.

    Then he re-engages again, tries to burst you, he can't, you stand by the clones, yaddayaddayadda, same story as before, goes down to 11% hp, while you're still at 13k. At this point he disengages again, but you actually even get out of combat first to heal back to full hp when he's still at below 40%. Now YOU engage him, he barely touches you and dies because you're clearly some kind of skill-clicking condi mirage god or something xd

    What kinda stuff are you smoking? I might like some too! Blather on all u like though about thief.

    Aww buddy -pretty clearly if anyone's "smoking something" here, it's not me. Keep making your own reality despite the video you've posted by yourself.

    As you said, I pointed out and then you confirmed again: the thief "lost by choice", because he chose to participate in a fight while in wvw instead of running away and pveing camps I guess.

    So when I go from like 24k to 16k each attack, thats not significant damage? smoke some more crack. BTW I could really give a kitten about this thief if your problem. I just posted a video as an example of thieves high reset potential.

    You are just a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better. As I said before. Keep it up you may just find you bring yet, MORE unwanted attention from Anet about thief balance and get yet more nerfs. (none of which I asked for or suggested)

    Go smoke a little more crack.

    Buddy, stop spamming with "woah you smoke crack!" when you don't have anything of value to respond with.
    Take a few deeper breaths, re-read what I wrote (while you're at it, maybe even re-read your own post I was answering to, just to make sure I am actually responding to what you said, which I do) and answer with something relevant. If you want to randomize insults, look somewhere else.

    You're the one person in this thread that keeps constantly insulting others instead of answering to the contents of their msgs in at least last few of your posts -so much for being "a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better". For real, re-read last few posts and take a good look at yourself in light of what you just wrote.

    Here is a list of the reasons you are wrong in list form to make it simple.

    Great.

    1) thief is MUCH higher rank

    Rank is mostly irrelevant and can be farmed by running in zergs and spamming aoes. WvW rank isn't an equivalent of some sort of literal "ranked ladder". We're discussing certain mechanics and classes, in this case based on a specific situation from the video you've posted. Respond accordingly, instead of taking shortcuts by claiming rank is a factor here.

    2) thief keeps resetting out of my combat range
    2a if I chase I use up my only mobility which is also one of 2 stun breaks.
    2b At this point the thief is free to find a new target or wait for another attack opportunity.

    Then... don't chase. What's the problem here? Thief uses resources to run and then uses resources to go in if you're not playing like thief wants you to play. You stood your ground and he didn't do much. Then YOU engaged when you went OOC before the thief and were able to kill him. So what's the problem? That you can't just blindly chase someone without thinking? Being able to stand your ground instead of running away is even more relevant if we' remember we're in pvp mode subforum.
    Once again, "running away" is far from winning. And willingness to fight 1v1 is far from "losing by choice".

    3) the thief does enough damage to kill me given the chance which is why its attacking.

    I don't know what this point is supposed to be responding to. We saw he wasn't able to kill you despite getting initial free shots due to you literally standing in the middle of wvw and typing. "The class does enough dmg to have a chance of winning" -well it sure better have a chance or what's the point here? It's still not an equivalent of you claiming "he was sure to have an easy kill", which most probably wasn't the case judging how the fight went for an extended period of time.

    4) the thief instigated the fight from stealth ambush on a trailblazer Mirage which the thief's mistake if anyone's.

    So thief is so broken that he shouldn't fight your class because it's a loss? Again, I don't understand how this proves what OP asked you to prove.

    5) My entire damage burst on the thief was from confusion which means when the thief goes down its actually from them choosing to activate skills which leads to them taking bust level damage.

    I wonder how the thief is supposed to disengage without using skills. Again, what does this point change about this situation? That you can counter the disengage? That's the opposite of your initial claims and opposite of what OP was asking for.

    6) the point of my post was to respond to another post about thief having high reset potential in wvw to the point that people complain about it.

    No, don't try to change the facts again. What you were answering to was literally this thread's opening post, which you've even quoted:
    "I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift."

    To which you also wrote that:
    -"thief lost by choice" -AGAIN, apparently that "choice to lose" being not deciding to run away, which you constantly try to deny now, while also writing exactly that
    -"What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst." -yup, he is. And that's what he does. And the result doesn't change. Which in the pvp mode just means he's not capping the point from you. BUT HEY, that's only because I chose to have trailblazer so he can't easly burst me down! well, duh. You picked a build and now it's hard for the thief to win with you even if he disengages multiple times. Until you have that option available in the game, I'm not sure why you're complaining. One way or another, this video showed the opposite of what OP asked for.
    -"At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact." -that's false and I think I pointed that out sufficiently clear in the post where I gave you a little, uh, breakdown of your own replay. If the thief was not touched by your clones, he wouldn't need to constantly disengage in the first place, while in reality most of the time he had less hp than you did.
    -"Most of the time these fights go to the thief." -the thief tried dis-/re-engageing multiple times and the result was similar in every case. Play the thief and farm trailblazer mirages or something, then you'll do what OP asked for. Do you understand the difference between what was asked for and what you delivered/wrote about?

    7) You seem to wana nit pick my input methods for skill activation rather than talk about the actual subject.

    Yes, I totally "want to nit pick", which is why I'm responding to your posts as a whole, while you constantly dogde what I'm saying. Because your input method was clearly the main point of my posts here, ok.

    Im not going to explain everything to someone who I think is just looking for some kind of soft target. You no valid counter argument.

    No valid counter argument? I keep responding to what you write, I'm not sure what else you expect from a discussion -not only this, but literally any. Did I miss some crucial parts of your posts or lied about what happened in your video or about what you wrote? I don't think I did, but IF I did, then by all means make sure to point it out.

    You seem to want to counter the fact that thief has massive reset potential by saying, in effect, No your wrong thief is so badly under powered it couldn't possibly kill a Mirage because the thief lost. That isn't a counter argument to the fact that thieves high reset potential or that ultimately means the thief chose to fight and stay in the fight to the loss and had other options that would have let the thief escape the fight it started if it didnt wana be in that fight. PARTICULARLY, when you take into account Im running a built that is using CONFUSION for its burst meaning they had to activate skills to get hurt like they did.....

    That's by far not what I said. I said that engaging in a fight isn't choosing to lose. That running isn't winning (even moreso in pvp). That what you linked and wrote isn't an answer to what OP asked for.
    Yes, the thief used skills. Tell me how he was supposed to try to disengage without doing that.
    Also if I tried to claim that "thief is so badly underpowered it couldn't possibly kill a [whatever]", you can be sure I'd be lobbying for some teef buffs, which I'm not doing -not here and not anywhere. So that seems like a miss to me.

    It doesn't matter what I say you will continue to whine. I find it kinda funny.

    Ah, so you're back to doing... this. I didn't whine, I literally responded to everything you said. I understand you're done here, so I guess I am too. Next time you respond, try actually answering to the contents of my post.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing by choice. Class broken because it can run away".

    Isn't this what you've just said?

    Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =)

    In what way what you said doesn't mean what I said? Explain what you meant then. You were supposed to show thief being op [while playing it], but all you did was link to a vid [from a different mode btw] where you win against thief twice and then claimed "thief lost by choice". Apparently that "choice" being "actually fighting".

    The thief for SURE lost by choice. My post talking about that is VERY clear. You are obviously looking for an agument and hoping to miss represent facts to do it.

    The thief lost by choice because in the video you can literally see the thief stealth and reset out of range many many times. Each time the thief has the option to leave the fight if it ever felt it might lose or was in a losing match-up. Therefore, as I said before the thief was arguably being lazy and assuming it would get the kill because its probably used to face-rolling over Mesmer and others. In other words, the thief CHOSE to ambush me and had multiple chances to leave the fight and live if it ever thought it was in a losing fight. So obviously it thought it was in a winning fight and was wrong. That means it was 100% the thief's choice/mistake all the way from start to finish. Its extremely clear and not even really debatable.

    ...so you think he "lost by choice because he didn't run away". Not sure why you've tried calling me a troll and then repeated what I said (and what you said before).

    You try to say "the thief thought he was in a winning fight" based on what exactly? Based on the fact that he didn't "run away for good," despite needing to disengage multiple times to not die earlier? That's hilarious. Absolutely make sure to tell me where that conclusion came from.
    And the fact that whenever he disengaged and re-engaged, you also had the time to heal up is somehow irrelvant here? It's almost as if he taking his time also give you time to do whatever you want to do and helped you stand your ground.
    You say that "he's used to face-rolling over mesmer and others", but somehow he didn't faceroll you? Why exactly? Why is the thief using stealth or running unfair, but you utilizing your mechanic and standing between your clones is perfectly fine? Running isn't winning, not even close. Even moreso in pvp gamemode btw.

    You really make no sense.

    At which part exactly? (inb4 "all of it" which is not a valid answer, but just an effort to escape facts you don't like :( )

    I was standing still typing in chat, thief stealth attacks me and stealth again so quick that clones cannot reach thief. the thief keeps stealthing and attacking a mostly stationary target (me) who didn't instigate the attack or chase the thief. Repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief because it can restealth so fast after attacks that Mirage (me) almost cannot hit the thief. The thief does significant damage to my Trailblazer Mirage. The thief can reset over and over.

    "stealths and attack a mostly stationary target who didn't instigate the attack"? "repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief?" "significant dmg"? You were at 16k+ hp for vast majority of that fight.
    It's pretty funny because your description here is just a plain lie, maybe you should rewatch your own video before trying to talk back?

    10:02 -start of the fight, thief deals 7k of free dmg because -just like you said- you stand in the middle of wvw and type (not sure how that's supposed to play into you trying to show thief is op, but ok :lol: )
    10:22 -you're already at about the same hp %. Thief stealths, but still takes some condi dmg, now he's at lower hp % (and just flat lower hp, but that was true since the start of the fight, so w/e) than you are. Good job achieving that while claiming the thief is impossible to hit I guess?
    Now you're just standing behind the clones, waiting for the thief to appear/re-engage. Which he does and so he takes more dmg going from 60%+ hp to 20%. All that not exactly by you somehow outplaying him or presenting some hightened gamesense with exceptional mouse-skill-clicking reflexes, but mostly by standing near your clones (which, as you claim, can't even hit the thief -must be magic).
    Thief burns heal and stealths, because he already almost died, while you're still at >16k hp. The fight resets for both of you and at this point... so much for your "he thought he'll easly win theory, when he pretty much already lost once and had to run away.

    Then he re-engages again, tries to burst you, he can't, you stand by the clones, yaddayaddayadda, same story as before, goes down to 11% hp, while you're still at 13k. At this point he disengages again, but you actually even get out of combat first to heal back to full hp when he's still at below 40%. Now YOU engage him, he barely touches you and dies because you're clearly some kind of skill-clicking condi mirage god or something xd

    What kinda stuff are you smoking? I might like some too! Blather on all u like though about thief.

    Aww buddy -pretty clearly if anyone's "smoking something" here, it's not me. Keep making your own reality despite the video you've posted by yourself.

    As you said, I pointed out and then you confirmed again: the thief "lost by choice", because he chose to participate in a fight while in wvw instead of running away and pveing camps I guess.

    So when I go from like 24k to 16k each attack, thats not significant damage? smoke some more crack. BTW I could really give a kitten about this thief if your problem. I just posted a video as an example of thieves high reset potential.

    You are just a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better. As I said before. Keep it up you may just find you bring yet, MORE unwanted attention from Anet about thief balance and get yet more nerfs. (none of which I asked for or suggested)

    Go smoke a little more crack.

    Buddy, stop spamming with "woah you smoke crack!" when you don't have anything of value to respond with.
    Take a few deeper breaths, re-read what I wrote (while you're at it, maybe even re-read your own post I was answering to, just to make sure I am actually responding to what you said, which I do) and answer with something relevant. If you want to randomize insults, look somewhere else.

    You're the one person in this thread that keeps constantly insulting others instead of answering to the contents of their msgs in at least last few of your posts -so much for being "a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better". For real, re-read last few posts and take a good look at yourself in light of what you just wrote.

    Here is a list of the reasons you are wrong in list form to make it simple.

    1) thief is MUCH higher rank
    2) thief keeps resetting out of my combat range.
    2a if I chase I use up my only mobility which is also one of 2 stun breaks.
    2b At this point the thief is free to find a new target or wait for another attack opportunity.
    3) the thief does enough damage to kill me given the chance which is why its attacking.
    4) the thief instigated the fight from stealth ambush on a trailblazer Mirage which the thief's mistake if anyone's.
    5) My entire damage burst on the thief was from confusion which means when the thief goes down its actually from them choosing to activate skills which leads to them taking bust level damage.
    6) the point of my post was to respond to another post about thief having high reset potential in wvw to the point that people complain about it.
    7) You seem to wana nit pick my input methods for skill activation rather than talk about the actual subject.

    Im not going to explain everything to someone who I think is just looking for some kind of soft target. You no valid counter argument.

    You seem to want to counter the fact that thief has massive reset potential by saying, in effect, No your wrong thief is so badly under powered it couldn't possibly kill a Mirage because the thief lost. That isn't a counter argument to the fact that thieves high reset potential or that ultimately means the thief chose to fight and stay in the fight to the loss and had other options that would have let the thief escape the fight it started if it didnt wana be in that fight. PARTICULARLY, when you take into account Im running a built that is using CONFUSION for its burst meaning they had to activate skills to get hurt like they did.....

    eye roll

    So in the vid a higher ranking thief loses to u, the class it hard counters the most while also preforming resets and ur point of it all is not that thief is OP but its ability to reset or disengage is if I understood correctly.
    So couldnt this vid also be taken as a way to explain why the thief class has the disengage potential that it has in its current form? Cuz kinda seems like the vids showing how much of a free bag thief would be without its disengage or reset potential no? Kinda points out the reasoning for thief's hit and run design, so thanks for that.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing by choice. Class broken because it can run away".

    Isn't this what you've just said?

    Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =)

    In what way what you said doesn't mean what I said? Explain what you meant then. You were supposed to show thief being op [while playing it], but all you did was link to a vid [from a different mode btw] where you win against thief twice and then claimed "thief lost by choice". Apparently that "choice" being "actually fighting".

    The thief for SURE lost by choice. My post talking about that is VERY clear. You are obviously looking for an agument and hoping to miss represent facts to do it.

    The thief lost by choice because in the video you can literally see the thief stealth and reset out of range many many times. Each time the thief has the option to leave the fight if it ever felt it might lose or was in a losing match-up. Therefore, as I said before the thief was arguably being lazy and assuming it would get the kill because its probably used to face-rolling over Mesmer and others. In other words, the thief CHOSE to ambush me and had multiple chances to leave the fight and live if it ever thought it was in a losing fight. So obviously it thought it was in a winning fight and was wrong. That means it was 100% the thief's choice/mistake all the way from start to finish. Its extremely clear and not even really debatable.

    ...so you think he "lost by choice because he didn't run away". Not sure why you've tried calling me a troll and then repeated what I said (and what you said before).

    You try to say "the thief thought he was in a winning fight" based on what exactly? Based on the fact that he didn't "run away for good," despite needing to disengage multiple times to not die earlier? That's hilarious. Absolutely make sure to tell me where that conclusion came from.
    And the fact that whenever he disengaged and re-engaged, you also had the time to heal up is somehow irrelvant here? It's almost as if he taking his time also give you time to do whatever you want to do and helped you stand your ground.
    You say that "he's used to face-rolling over mesmer and others", but somehow he didn't faceroll you? Why exactly? Why is the thief using stealth or running unfair, but you utilizing your mechanic and standing between your clones is perfectly fine? Running isn't winning, not even close. Even moreso in pvp gamemode btw.

    You really make no sense.

    At which part exactly? (inb4 "all of it" which is not a valid answer, but just an effort to escape facts you don't like :( )

    I was standing still typing in chat, thief stealth attacks me and stealth again so quick that clones cannot reach thief. the thief keeps stealthing and attacking a mostly stationary target (me) who didn't instigate the attack or chase the thief. Repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief because it can restealth so fast after attacks that Mirage (me) almost cannot hit the thief. The thief does significant damage to my Trailblazer Mirage. The thief can reset over and over.

    "stealths and attack a mostly stationary target who didn't instigate the attack"? "repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief?" "significant dmg"? You were at 16k+ hp for vast majority of that fight.
    It's pretty funny because your description here is just a plain lie, maybe you should rewatch your own video before trying to talk back?

    10:02 -start of the fight, thief deals 7k of free dmg because -just like you said- you stand in the middle of wvw and type (not sure how that's supposed to play into you trying to show thief is op, but ok :lol: )
    10:22 -you're already at about the same hp %. Thief stealths, but still takes some condi dmg, now he's at lower hp % (and just flat lower hp, but that was true since the start of the fight, so w/e) than you are. Good job achieving that while claiming the thief is impossible to hit I guess?
    Now you're just standing behind the clones, waiting for the thief to appear/re-engage. Which he does and so he takes more dmg going from 60%+ hp to 20%. All that not exactly by you somehow outplaying him or presenting some hightened gamesense with exceptional mouse-skill-clicking reflexes, but mostly by standing near your clones (which, as you claim, can't even hit the thief -must be magic).
    Thief burns heal and stealths, because he already almost died, while you're still at >16k hp. The fight resets for both of you and at this point... so much for your "he thought he'll easly win theory, when he pretty much already lost once and had to run away.

    Then he re-engages again, tries to burst you, he can't, you stand by the clones, yaddayaddayadda, same story as before, goes down to 11% hp, while you're still at 13k. At this point he disengages again, but you actually even get out of combat first to heal back to full hp when he's still at below 40%. Now YOU engage him, he barely touches you and dies because you're clearly some kind of skill-clicking condi mirage god or something xd

    What kinda stuff are you smoking? I might like some too! Blather on all u like though about thief.

    Aww buddy -pretty clearly if anyone's "smoking something" here, it's not me. Keep making your own reality despite the video you've posted by yourself.

    As you said, I pointed out and then you confirmed again: the thief "lost by choice", because he chose to participate in a fight while in wvw instead of running away and pveing camps I guess.

    So when I go from like 24k to 16k each attack, thats not significant damage? smoke some more crack. BTW I could really give a kitten about this thief if your problem. I just posted a video as an example of thieves high reset potential.

    You are just a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better. As I said before. Keep it up you may just find you bring yet, MORE unwanted attention from Anet about thief balance and get yet more nerfs. (none of which I asked for or suggested)

    Go smoke a little more crack.

    Buddy, stop spamming with "woah you smoke crack!" when you don't have anything of value to respond with.
    Take a few deeper breaths, re-read what I wrote (while you're at it, maybe even re-read your own post I was answering to, just to make sure I am actually responding to what you said, which I do) and answer with something relevant. If you want to randomize insults, look somewhere else.

    You're the one person in this thread that keeps constantly insulting others instead of answering to the contents of their msgs in at least last few of your posts -so much for being "a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better". For real, re-read last few posts and take a good look at yourself in light of what you just wrote.

    Here is a list of the reasons you are wrong in list form to make it simple.

    1) thief is MUCH higher rank
    2) thief keeps resetting out of my combat range.
    2a if I chase I use up my only mobility which is also one of 2 stun breaks.
    2b At this point the thief is free to find a new target or wait for another attack opportunity.
    3) the thief does enough damage to kill me given the chance which is why its attacking.
    4) the thief instigated the fight from stealth ambush on a trailblazer Mirage which the thief's mistake if anyone's.
    5) My entire damage burst on the thief was from confusion which means when the thief goes down its actually from them choosing to activate skills which leads to them taking bust level damage.
    6) the point of my post was to respond to another post about thief having high reset potential in wvw to the point that people complain about it.
    7) You seem to wana nit pick my input methods for skill activation rather than talk about the actual subject.

    Im not going to explain everything to someone who I think is just looking for some kind of soft target. You no valid counter argument.

    You seem to want to counter the fact that thief has massive reset potential by saying, in effect, No your wrong thief is so badly under powered it couldn't possibly kill a Mirage because the thief lost. That isn't a counter argument to the fact that thieves high reset potential or that ultimately means the thief chose to fight and stay in the fight to the loss and had other options that would have let the thief escape the fight it started if it didnt wana be in that fight. PARTICULARLY, when you take into account Im running a built that is using CONFUSION for its burst meaning they had to activate skills to get hurt like they did.....

    eye roll

    So in the vid a higher ranking thief loses to u, the class it hard counters the most while also preforming resets and ur point of it all is not that thief is OP but its ability to reset or disengage is if I understood correctly.
    So couldnt this vid also be taken as a way to explain why the thief class has the disengage potential that it has in its current form? Cuz kinda seems like the vids showing how much of a free bag thief would be without its disengage or reset potential no? Kinda points out the reasoning for thief's hit and run design, so thanks for that.

    I think perhaps due to the other 2 seemingly obsessed posters, you are misinterpreting what I said. At no point did I say I think thief is OP. Which in part is the point of my responses and why I think the other 2 who keep responding are just angry thieves looking for a place to vent about themselves having trouble with the class they play.

    If a thief seeks out and ambushes a class that is a counter to it, that is what I would call sloppy. A non-sloppy experienced thief wouldnt even engage unless they felt they could deal enough damage to drop the Mesmer. Anyone experienced in WvW knows thief can and does do exactly that. So again, the thief lost because they played sloppy/made critical mistakes in game play. What ever u wana call it the thief made the choices that lead to the thief's loss. I call that losing by choice. Call it what you wish.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021

    Its also why I will not bother to read all the vomit they keep spewing, I have clearly explained and re-explained. If you all wana keep kitten about how weak thief is go ahead. However, I will point out not being OP doesn't mean Mesmer is stonger or that thief lacks reset and the ability to escape and recover from mistakes quite easily. Either way comparing mesmer and thief and suggesting is the primary balance issue from being too OP sounds like a race to the bottom which is pointless. You should know better too cause you have been around.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing by choice. Class broken because it can run away".

    Isn't this what you've just said?

    Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =)

    In what way what you said doesn't mean what I said? Explain what you meant then. You were supposed to show thief being op [while playing it], but all you did was link to a vid [from a different mode btw] where you win against thief twice and then claimed "thief lost by choice". Apparently that "choice" being "actually fighting".

    The thief for SURE lost by choice. My post talking about that is VERY clear. You are obviously looking for an agument and hoping to miss represent facts to do it.

    The thief lost by choice because in the video you can literally see the thief stealth and reset out of range many many times. Each time the thief has the option to leave the fight if it ever felt it might lose or was in a losing match-up. Therefore, as I said before the thief was arguably being lazy and assuming it would get the kill because its probably used to face-rolling over Mesmer and others. In other words, the thief CHOSE to ambush me and had multiple chances to leave the fight and live if it ever thought it was in a losing fight. So obviously it thought it was in a winning fight and was wrong. That means it was 100% the thief's choice/mistake all the way from start to finish. Its extremely clear and not even really debatable.

    ...so you think he "lost by choice because he didn't run away". Not sure why you've tried calling me a troll and then repeated what I said (and what you said before).

    You try to say "the thief thought he was in a winning fight" based on what exactly? Based on the fact that he didn't "run away for good," despite needing to disengage multiple times to not die earlier? That's hilarious. Absolutely make sure to tell me where that conclusion came from.
    And the fact that whenever he disengaged and re-engaged, you also had the time to heal up is somehow irrelvant here? It's almost as if he taking his time also give you time to do whatever you want to do and helped you stand your ground.
    You say that "he's used to face-rolling over mesmer and others", but somehow he didn't faceroll you? Why exactly? Why is the thief using stealth or running unfair, but you utilizing your mechanic and standing between your clones is perfectly fine? Running isn't winning, not even close. Even moreso in pvp gamemode btw.

    You really make no sense.

    At which part exactly? (inb4 "all of it" which is not a valid answer, but just an effort to escape facts you don't like :( )

    I was standing still typing in chat, thief stealth attacks me and stealth again so quick that clones cannot reach thief. the thief keeps stealthing and attacking a mostly stationary target (me) who didn't instigate the attack or chase the thief. Repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief because it can restealth so fast after attacks that Mirage (me) almost cannot hit the thief. The thief does significant damage to my Trailblazer Mirage. The thief can reset over and over.

    "stealths and attack a mostly stationary target who didn't instigate the attack"? "repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief?" "significant dmg"? You were at 16k+ hp for vast majority of that fight.
    It's pretty funny because your description here is just a plain lie, maybe you should rewatch your own video before trying to talk back?

    10:02 -start of the fight, thief deals 7k of free dmg because -just like you said- you stand in the middle of wvw and type (not sure how that's supposed to play into you trying to show thief is op, but ok :lol: )
    10:22 -you're already at about the same hp %. Thief stealths, but still takes some condi dmg, now he's at lower hp % (and just flat lower hp, but that was true since the start of the fight, so w/e) than you are. Good job achieving that while claiming the thief is impossible to hit I guess?
    Now you're just standing behind the clones, waiting for the thief to appear/re-engage. Which he does and so he takes more dmg going from 60%+ hp to 20%. All that not exactly by you somehow outplaying him or presenting some hightened gamesense with exceptional mouse-skill-clicking reflexes, but mostly by standing near your clones (which, as you claim, can't even hit the thief -must be magic).
    Thief burns heal and stealths, because he already almost died, while you're still at >16k hp. The fight resets for both of you and at this point... so much for your "he thought he'll easly win theory, when he pretty much already lost once and had to run away.

    Then he re-engages again, tries to burst you, he can't, you stand by the clones, yaddayaddayadda, same story as before, goes down to 11% hp, while you're still at 13k. At this point he disengages again, but you actually even get out of combat first to heal back to full hp when he's still at below 40%. Now YOU engage him, he barely touches you and dies because you're clearly some kind of skill-clicking condi mirage god or something xd

    What kinda stuff are you smoking? I might like some too! Blather on all u like though about thief.

    Aww buddy -pretty clearly if anyone's "smoking something" here, it's not me. Keep making your own reality despite the video you've posted by yourself.

    As you said, I pointed out and then you confirmed again: the thief "lost by choice", because he chose to participate in a fight while in wvw instead of running away and pveing camps I guess.

    So when I go from like 24k to 16k each attack, thats not significant damage? smoke some more crack. BTW I could really give a kitten about this thief if your problem. I just posted a video as an example of thieves high reset potential.

    You are just a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better. As I said before. Keep it up you may just find you bring yet, MORE unwanted attention from Anet about thief balance and get yet more nerfs. (none of which I asked for or suggested)

    Go smoke a little more crack.

    Buddy, stop spamming with "woah you smoke crack!" when you don't have anything of value to respond with.
    Take a few deeper breaths, re-read what I wrote (while you're at it, maybe even re-read your own post I was answering to, just to make sure I am actually responding to what you said, which I do) and answer with something relevant. If you want to randomize insults, look somewhere else.

    You're the one person in this thread that keeps constantly insulting others instead of answering to the contents of their msgs in at least last few of your posts -so much for being "a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better". For real, re-read last few posts and take a good look at yourself in light of what you just wrote.

    Here is a list of the reasons you are wrong in list form to make it simple.

    Great.

    1) thief is MUCH higher rank

    Rank is mostly irrelevant and can be farmed by running in zergs and spamming aoes. WvW rank isn't an equivalent of some sort of literal "ranked ladder". We're discussing certain mechanics and classes, in this case based on a specific situation from the video you've posted. Respond accordingly, instead of taking shortcuts by claiming rank is a factor here.

    2) thief keeps resetting out of my combat range
    2a if I chase I use up my only mobility which is also one of 2 stun breaks.
    2b At this point the thief is free to find a new target or wait for another attack opportunity.

    Then... don't chase. What's the problem here? Thief uses resources to run and then uses resources to go in if you're not playing like thief wants you to play. You stood your ground and he didn't do much. Then YOU engaged when you went OOC before the thief and were able to kill him. So what's the problem? That you can't just blindly chase someone without thinking? Being able to stand your ground instead of running away is even more relevant if we' remember we're in pvp mode subforum.
    Once again, "running away" is far from winning. And willingness to fight 1v1 is far from "losing by choice".

    3) the thief does enough damage to kill me given the chance which is why its attacking.

    I don't know what this point is supposed to be responding to. We saw he wasn't able to kill you despite getting initial free shots due to you literally standing in the middle of wvw and typing. "The class does enough dmg to have a chance of winning" -well it sure better have a chance or what's the point here? It's still not an equivalent of you claiming "he was sure to have an easy kill", which most probably wasn't the case judging how the fight went for an extended period of time.

    4) the thief instigated the fight from stealth ambush on a trailblazer Mirage which the thief's mistake if anyone's.

    So thief is so broken that he shouldn't fight your class because it's a loss? Again, I don't understand how this proves what OP asked you to prove.

    5) My entire damage burst on the thief was from confusion which means when the thief goes down its actually from them choosing to activate skills which leads to them taking bust level damage.

    I wonder how the thief is supposed to disengage without using skills. Again, what does this point change about this situation? That you can counter the disengage? That's the opposite of your initial claims and opposite of what OP was asking for.

    6) the point of my post was to respond to another post about thief having high reset potential in wvw to the point that people complain about it.

    No, don't try to change the facts again. What you were answering to was literally this thread's opening post, which you've even quoted:
    "I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift."

    To which you also wrote that:
    -"thief lost by choice" -AGAIN, apparently that "choice to lose" being not deciding to run away, which you constantly try to deny now, while also writing exactly that
    -"What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst." -yup, he is. And that's what he does. And the result doesn't change. Which in the pvp mode just means he's not capping the point from you. BUT HEY, that's only because I chose to have trailblazer so he can't easly burst me down! well, duh. You picked a build and now it's hard for the thief to win with you even if he disengages multiple times. Until you have that option available in the game, I'm not sure why you're complaining. One way or another, this video showed the opposite of what OP asked for.
    -"At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact." -that's false and I think I pointed that out sufficiently clear in the post where I gave you a little, uh, breakdown of your own replay. If the thief was not touched by your clones, he wouldn't need to constantly disengage in the first place, while in reality most of the time he had less hp than you did.
    -"Most of the time these fights go to the thief." -the thief tried dis-/re-engageing multiple times and the result was similar in every case. Play the thief and farm trailblazer mirages or something, then you'll do what OP asked for. Do you understand the difference between what was asked for and what you delivered/wrote about?

    7) You seem to wana nit pick my input methods for skill activation rather than talk about the actual subject.

    Yes, I totally "want to nit pick", which is why I'm responding to your posts as a whole, while you constantly dogde what I'm saying. Because your input method was clearly the main point of my posts here, ok.

    Im not going to explain everything to someone who I think is just looking for some kind of soft target. You no valid counter argument.

    No valid counter argument? I keep responding to what you write, I'm not sure what else you expect from a discussion -not only this, but literally any. Did I miss some crucial parts of your posts or lied about what happened in your video or about what you wrote? I don't think I did, but IF I did, then by all means make sure to point it out.

    You seem to want to counter the fact that thief has massive reset potential by saying, in effect, No your wrong thief is so badly under powered it couldn't possibly kill a Mirage because the thief lost. That isn't a counter argument to the fact that thieves high reset potential or that ultimately means the thief chose to fight and stay in the fight to the loss and had other options that would have let the thief escape the fight it started if it didnt wana be in that fight. PARTICULARLY, when you take into account Im running a built that is using CONFUSION for its burst meaning they had to activate skills to get hurt like they did.....

    That's by far not what I said. I said that engaging in a fight isn't choosing to lose. That running isn't winning (even moreso in pvp). That what you linked and wrote isn't an answer to what OP asked for.
    Yes, the thief used skills. Tell me how he was supposed to try to disengage without doing that.
    Also if I tried to claim that "thief is so badly underpowered it couldn't possibly kill a [whatever]", you can be sure I'd be lobbying for some teef buffs, which I'm not doing -not here and not anywhere. So that seems like a miss to me.

    It doesn't matter what I say you will continue to whine. I find it kinda funny.

    Ah, so you're back to doing... this. I didn't whine, I literally responded to everything you said. I understand you're done here, so I guess I am too. Next time you respond, try actually answering to the contents of my post.

    I never left, its really easy to hit refresh see your post and say. I wouldn't want to disappoint u. ;)

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing by choice. Class broken because it can run away".

    Isn't this what you've just said?

    Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =)

    In what way what you said doesn't mean what I said? Explain what you meant then. You were supposed to show thief being op [while playing it], but all you did was link to a vid [from a different mode btw] where you win against thief twice and then claimed "thief lost by choice". Apparently that "choice" being "actually fighting".

    The thief for SURE lost by choice. My post talking about that is VERY clear. You are obviously looking for an agument and hoping to miss represent facts to do it.

    The thief lost by choice because in the video you can literally see the thief stealth and reset out of range many many times. Each time the thief has the option to leave the fight if it ever felt it might lose or was in a losing match-up. Therefore, as I said before the thief was arguably being lazy and assuming it would get the kill because its probably used to face-rolling over Mesmer and others. In other words, the thief CHOSE to ambush me and had multiple chances to leave the fight and live if it ever thought it was in a losing fight. So obviously it thought it was in a winning fight and was wrong. That means it was 100% the thief's choice/mistake all the way from start to finish. Its extremely clear and not even really debatable.

    ...so you think he "lost by choice because he didn't run away". Not sure why you've tried calling me a troll and then repeated what I said (and what you said before).

    You try to say "the thief thought he was in a winning fight" based on what exactly? Based on the fact that he didn't "run away for good," despite needing to disengage multiple times to not die earlier? That's hilarious. Absolutely make sure to tell me where that conclusion came from.
    And the fact that whenever he disengaged and re-engaged, you also had the time to heal up is somehow irrelvant here? It's almost as if he taking his time also give you time to do whatever you want to do and helped you stand your ground.
    You say that "he's used to face-rolling over mesmer and others", but somehow he didn't faceroll you? Why exactly? Why is the thief using stealth or running unfair, but you utilizing your mechanic and standing between your clones is perfectly fine? Running isn't winning, not even close. Even moreso in pvp gamemode btw.

    You really make no sense.

    At which part exactly? (inb4 "all of it" which is not a valid answer, but just an effort to escape facts you don't like :( )

    I was standing still typing in chat, thief stealth attacks me and stealth again so quick that clones cannot reach thief. the thief keeps stealthing and attacking a mostly stationary target (me) who didn't instigate the attack or chase the thief. Repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief because it can restealth so fast after attacks that Mirage (me) almost cannot hit the thief. The thief does significant damage to my Trailblazer Mirage. The thief can reset over and over.

    "stealths and attack a mostly stationary target who didn't instigate the attack"? "repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief?" "significant dmg"? You were at 16k+ hp for vast majority of that fight.
    It's pretty funny because your description here is just a plain lie, maybe you should rewatch your own video before trying to talk back?

    10:02 -start of the fight, thief deals 7k of free dmg because -just like you said- you stand in the middle of wvw and type (not sure how that's supposed to play into you trying to show thief is op, but ok :lol: )
    10:22 -you're already at about the same hp %. Thief stealths, but still takes some condi dmg, now he's at lower hp % (and just flat lower hp, but that was true since the start of the fight, so w/e) than you are. Good job achieving that while claiming the thief is impossible to hit I guess?
    Now you're just standing behind the clones, waiting for the thief to appear/re-engage. Which he does and so he takes more dmg going from 60%+ hp to 20%. All that not exactly by you somehow outplaying him or presenting some hightened gamesense with exceptional mouse-skill-clicking reflexes, but mostly by standing near your clones (which, as you claim, can't even hit the thief -must be magic).
    Thief burns heal and stealths, because he already almost died, while you're still at >16k hp. The fight resets for both of you and at this point... so much for your "he thought he'll easly win theory, when he pretty much already lost once and had to run away.

    Then he re-engages again, tries to burst you, he can't, you stand by the clones, yaddayaddayadda, same story as before, goes down to 11% hp, while you're still at 13k. At this point he disengages again, but you actually even get out of combat first to heal back to full hp when he's still at below 40%. Now YOU engage him, he barely touches you and dies because you're clearly some kind of skill-clicking condi mirage god or something xd

    What kinda stuff are you smoking? I might like some too! Blather on all u like though about thief.

    Aww buddy -pretty clearly if anyone's "smoking something" here, it's not me. Keep making your own reality despite the video you've posted by yourself.

    As you said, I pointed out and then you confirmed again: the thief "lost by choice", because he chose to participate in a fight while in wvw instead of running away and pveing camps I guess.

    So when I go from like 24k to 16k each attack, thats not significant damage? smoke some more crack. BTW I could really give a kitten about this thief if your problem. I just posted a video as an example of thieves high reset potential.

    You are just a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better. As I said before. Keep it up you may just find you bring yet, MORE unwanted attention from Anet about thief balance and get yet more nerfs. (none of which I asked for or suggested)

    Go smoke a little more crack.

    Buddy, stop spamming with "woah you smoke crack!" when you don't have anything of value to respond with.
    Take a few deeper breaths, re-read what I wrote (while you're at it, maybe even re-read your own post I was answering to, just to make sure I am actually responding to what you said, which I do) and answer with something relevant. If you want to randomize insults, look somewhere else.

    You're the one person in this thread that keeps constantly insulting others instead of answering to the contents of their msgs in at least last few of your posts -so much for being "a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better". For real, re-read last few posts and take a good look at yourself in light of what you just wrote.

    Here is a list of the reasons you are wrong in list form to make it simple.

    1) thief is MUCH higher rank
    2) thief keeps resetting out of my combat range.
    2a if I chase I use up my only mobility which is also one of 2 stun breaks.
    2b At this point the thief is free to find a new target or wait for another attack opportunity.
    3) the thief does enough damage to kill me given the chance which is why its attacking.
    4) the thief instigated the fight from stealth ambush on a trailblazer Mirage which the thief's mistake if anyone's.
    5) My entire damage burst on the thief was from confusion which means when the thief goes down its actually from them choosing to activate skills which leads to them taking bust level damage.
    6) the point of my post was to respond to another post about thief having high reset potential in wvw to the point that people complain about it.
    7) You seem to wana nit pick my input methods for skill activation rather than talk about the actual subject.

    Im not going to explain everything to someone who I think is just looking for some kind of soft target. You no valid counter argument.

    You seem to want to counter the fact that thief has massive reset potential by saying, in effect, No your wrong thief is so badly under powered it couldn't possibly kill a Mirage because the thief lost. That isn't a counter argument to the fact that thieves high reset potential or that ultimately means the thief chose to fight and stay in the fight to the loss and had other options that would have let the thief escape the fight it started if it didnt wana be in that fight. PARTICULARLY, when you take into account Im running a built that is using CONFUSION for its burst meaning they had to activate skills to get hurt like they did.....

    eye roll

    So in the vid a higher ranking thief loses to u, the class it hard counters the most while also preforming resets and ur point of it all is not that thief is OP but its ability to reset or disengage is if I understood correctly.
    So couldnt this vid also be taken as a way to explain why the thief class has the disengage potential that it has in its current form? Cuz kinda seems like the vids showing how much of a free bag thief would be without its disengage or reset potential no? Kinda points out the reasoning for thief's hit and run design, so thanks for that.

    I think perhaps due to the other 2 seemingly obsessed posters, you are misinterpreting what I said. At no point did I say I think thief is OP. Which in part is the point of my responses and why I think the other 2 who keep responding are just angry thieves looking for a place to vent about themselves having trouble with the class they play.

    If a thief seeks out and ambushes a class that is a counter to it, that is what I would call sloppy. A non-sloppy experienced thief wouldnt even engage unless they felt they could deal enough damage to drop the Mesmer. Anyone experienced in WvW knows thief can and does do exactly that. So again, the thief lost because they played sloppy/made critical mistakes in game play. What ever u wana call it the thief made the choices that lead to the thief's loss. I call that losing by choice. Call it what you wish.

    Well ur kinda right cuz the teef coulda just disengaged as soon as he knew u were gonna kill him and as long as he didn't use his resources u probably couldn't have chased him down solo. That said it also shows why the thief's disengage potentiol is what it is considering how at least I'd guess by anets balancing the class isn't intended to be very good in 1v1's but I dont think we can fault the thief for trying as it's no fun running away and avoiding fights as the majority of players play for the fights and the challenge lol. Good job on killin the thief tho, a lot of mesmers have a hard time doing so if I'm reading the forums right. If anet buffed thief's ability to 1v1 they would 100% have to adjust its disengage potential to compensate or it would definitely be a problem.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing by choice. Class broken because it can run away".

    Isn't this what you've just said?

    Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =)

    In what way what you said doesn't mean what I said? Explain what you meant then. You were supposed to show thief being op [while playing it], but all you did was link to a vid [from a different mode btw] where you win against thief twice and then claimed "thief lost by choice". Apparently that "choice" being "actually fighting".

    The thief for SURE lost by choice. My post talking about that is VERY clear. You are obviously looking for an agument and hoping to miss represent facts to do it.

    The thief lost by choice because in the video you can literally see the thief stealth and reset out of range many many times. Each time the thief has the option to leave the fight if it ever felt it might lose or was in a losing match-up. Therefore, as I said before the thief was arguably being lazy and assuming it would get the kill because its probably used to face-rolling over Mesmer and others. In other words, the thief CHOSE to ambush me and had multiple chances to leave the fight and live if it ever thought it was in a losing fight. So obviously it thought it was in a winning fight and was wrong. That means it was 100% the thief's choice/mistake all the way from start to finish. Its extremely clear and not even really debatable.

    ...so you think he "lost by choice because he didn't run away". Not sure why you've tried calling me a troll and then repeated what I said (and what you said before).

    You try to say "the thief thought he was in a winning fight" based on what exactly? Based on the fact that he didn't "run away for good," despite needing to disengage multiple times to not die earlier? That's hilarious. Absolutely make sure to tell me where that conclusion came from.
    And the fact that whenever he disengaged and re-engaged, you also had the time to heal up is somehow irrelvant here? It's almost as if he taking his time also give you time to do whatever you want to do and helped you stand your ground.
    You say that "he's used to face-rolling over mesmer and others", but somehow he didn't faceroll you? Why exactly? Why is the thief using stealth or running unfair, but you utilizing your mechanic and standing between your clones is perfectly fine? Running isn't winning, not even close. Even moreso in pvp gamemode btw.

    You really make no sense.

    At which part exactly? (inb4 "all of it" which is not a valid answer, but just an effort to escape facts you don't like :( )

    I was standing still typing in chat, thief stealth attacks me and stealth again so quick that clones cannot reach thief. the thief keeps stealthing and attacking a mostly stationary target (me) who didn't instigate the attack or chase the thief. Repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief because it can restealth so fast after attacks that Mirage (me) almost cannot hit the thief. The thief does significant damage to my Trailblazer Mirage. The thief can reset over and over.

    "stealths and attack a mostly stationary target who didn't instigate the attack"? "repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief?" "significant dmg"? You were at 16k+ hp for vast majority of that fight.
    It's pretty funny because your description here is just a plain lie, maybe you should rewatch your own video before trying to talk back?

    10:02 -start of the fight, thief deals 7k of free dmg because -just like you said- you stand in the middle of wvw and type (not sure how that's supposed to play into you trying to show thief is op, but ok :lol: )
    10:22 -you're already at about the same hp %. Thief stealths, but still takes some condi dmg, now he's at lower hp % (and just flat lower hp, but that was true since the start of the fight, so w/e) than you are. Good job achieving that while claiming the thief is impossible to hit I guess?
    Now you're just standing behind the clones, waiting for the thief to appear/re-engage. Which he does and so he takes more dmg going from 60%+ hp to 20%. All that not exactly by you somehow outplaying him or presenting some hightened gamesense with exceptional mouse-skill-clicking reflexes, but mostly by standing near your clones (which, as you claim, can't even hit the thief -must be magic).
    Thief burns heal and stealths, because he already almost died, while you're still at >16k hp. The fight resets for both of you and at this point... so much for your "he thought he'll easly win theory, when he pretty much already lost once and had to run away.

    Then he re-engages again, tries to burst you, he can't, you stand by the clones, yaddayaddayadda, same story as before, goes down to 11% hp, while you're still at 13k. At this point he disengages again, but you actually even get out of combat first to heal back to full hp when he's still at below 40%. Now YOU engage him, he barely touches you and dies because you're clearly some kind of skill-clicking condi mirage god or something xd

    What kinda stuff are you smoking? I might like some too! Blather on all u like though about thief.

    Aww buddy -pretty clearly if anyone's "smoking something" here, it's not me. Keep making your own reality despite the video you've posted by yourself.

    As you said, I pointed out and then you confirmed again: the thief "lost by choice", because he chose to participate in a fight while in wvw instead of running away and pveing camps I guess.

    So when I go from like 24k to 16k each attack, thats not significant damage? smoke some more crack. BTW I could really give a kitten about this thief if your problem. I just posted a video as an example of thieves high reset potential.

    You are just a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better. As I said before. Keep it up you may just find you bring yet, MORE unwanted attention from Anet about thief balance and get yet more nerfs. (none of which I asked for or suggested)

    Go smoke a little more crack.

    Buddy, stop spamming with "woah you smoke crack!" when you don't have anything of value to respond with.
    Take a few deeper breaths, re-read what I wrote (while you're at it, maybe even re-read your own post I was answering to, just to make sure I am actually responding to what you said, which I do) and answer with something relevant. If you want to randomize insults, look somewhere else.

    You're the one person in this thread that keeps constantly insulting others instead of answering to the contents of their msgs in at least last few of your posts -so much for being "a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better". For real, re-read last few posts and take a good look at yourself in light of what you just wrote.

    Here is a list of the reasons you are wrong in list form to make it simple.

    1) thief is MUCH higher rank
    2) thief keeps resetting out of my combat range.
    2a if I chase I use up my only mobility which is also one of 2 stun breaks.
    2b At this point the thief is free to find a new target or wait for another attack opportunity.
    3) the thief does enough damage to kill me given the chance which is why its attacking.
    4) the thief instigated the fight from stealth ambush on a trailblazer Mirage which the thief's mistake if anyone's.
    5) My entire damage burst on the thief was from confusion which means when the thief goes down its actually from them choosing to activate skills which leads to them taking bust level damage.
    6) the point of my post was to respond to another post about thief having high reset potential in wvw to the point that people complain about it.
    7) You seem to wana nit pick my input methods for skill activation rather than talk about the actual subject.

    Im not going to explain everything to someone who I think is just looking for some kind of soft target. You no valid counter argument.

    You seem to want to counter the fact that thief has massive reset potential by saying, in effect, No your wrong thief is so badly under powered it couldn't possibly kill a Mirage because the thief lost. That isn't a counter argument to the fact that thieves high reset potential or that ultimately means the thief chose to fight and stay in the fight to the loss and had other options that would have let the thief escape the fight it started if it didnt wana be in that fight. PARTICULARLY, when you take into account Im running a built that is using CONFUSION for its burst meaning they had to activate skills to get hurt like they did.....

    eye roll

    So, you beat a guy higher ranked then you while they were on thief, even though they reset.

    Case closed.

    Thief is garbo.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) nom nom nom🥔
    Fun Daredevil

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing by choice. Class broken because it can run away".

    Isn't this what you've just said?

    Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =)

    In what way what you said doesn't mean what I said? Explain what you meant then. You were supposed to show thief being op [while playing it], but all you did was link to a vid [from a different mode btw] where you win against thief twice and then claimed "thief lost by choice". Apparently that "choice" being "actually fighting".

    The thief for SURE lost by choice. My post talking about that is VERY clear. You are obviously looking for an agument and hoping to miss represent facts to do it.

    The thief lost by choice because in the video you can literally see the thief stealth and reset out of range many many times. Each time the thief has the option to leave the fight if it ever felt it might lose or was in a losing match-up. Therefore, as I said before the thief was arguably being lazy and assuming it would get the kill because its probably used to face-rolling over Mesmer and others. In other words, the thief CHOSE to ambush me and had multiple chances to leave the fight and live if it ever thought it was in a losing fight. So obviously it thought it was in a winning fight and was wrong. That means it was 100% the thief's choice/mistake all the way from start to finish. Its extremely clear and not even really debatable.

    ...so you think he "lost by choice because he didn't run away". Not sure why you've tried calling me a troll and then repeated what I said (and what you said before).

    You try to say "the thief thought he was in a winning fight" based on what exactly? Based on the fact that he didn't "run away for good," despite needing to disengage multiple times to not die earlier? That's hilarious. Absolutely make sure to tell me where that conclusion came from.
    And the fact that whenever he disengaged and re-engaged, you also had the time to heal up is somehow irrelvant here? It's almost as if he taking his time also give you time to do whatever you want to do and helped you stand your ground.
    You say that "he's used to face-rolling over mesmer and others", but somehow he didn't faceroll you? Why exactly? Why is the thief using stealth or running unfair, but you utilizing your mechanic and standing between your clones is perfectly fine? Running isn't winning, not even close. Even moreso in pvp gamemode btw.

    You really make no sense.

    At which part exactly? (inb4 "all of it" which is not a valid answer, but just an effort to escape facts you don't like :( )

    I was standing still typing in chat, thief stealth attacks me and stealth again so quick that clones cannot reach thief. the thief keeps stealthing and attacking a mostly stationary target (me) who didn't instigate the attack or chase the thief. Repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief because it can restealth so fast after attacks that Mirage (me) almost cannot hit the thief. The thief does significant damage to my Trailblazer Mirage. The thief can reset over and over.

    "stealths and attack a mostly stationary target who didn't instigate the attack"? "repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief?" "significant dmg"? You were at 16k+ hp for vast majority of that fight.
    It's pretty funny because your description here is just a plain lie, maybe you should rewatch your own video before trying to talk back?

    10:02 -start of the fight, thief deals 7k of free dmg because -just like you said- you stand in the middle of wvw and type (not sure how that's supposed to play into you trying to show thief is op, but ok :lol: )
    10:22 -you're already at about the same hp %. Thief stealths, but still takes some condi dmg, now he's at lower hp % (and just flat lower hp, but that was true since the start of the fight, so w/e) than you are. Good job achieving that while claiming the thief is impossible to hit I guess?
    Now you're just standing behind the clones, waiting for the thief to appear/re-engage. Which he does and so he takes more dmg going from 60%+ hp to 20%. All that not exactly by you somehow outplaying him or presenting some hightened gamesense with exceptional mouse-skill-clicking reflexes, but mostly by standing near your clones (which, as you claim, can't even hit the thief -must be magic).
    Thief burns heal and stealths, because he already almost died, while you're still at >16k hp. The fight resets for both of you and at this point... so much for your "he thought he'll easly win theory, when he pretty much already lost once and had to run away.

    Then he re-engages again, tries to burst you, he can't, you stand by the clones, yaddayaddayadda, same story as before, goes down to 11% hp, while you're still at 13k. At this point he disengages again, but you actually even get out of combat first to heal back to full hp when he's still at below 40%. Now YOU engage him, he barely touches you and dies because you're clearly some kind of skill-clicking condi mirage god or something xd

    What kinda stuff are you smoking? I might like some too! Blather on all u like though about thief.

    Aww buddy -pretty clearly if anyone's "smoking something" here, it's not me. Keep making your own reality despite the video you've posted by yourself.

    As you said, I pointed out and then you confirmed again: the thief "lost by choice", because he chose to participate in a fight while in wvw instead of running away and pveing camps I guess.

    So when I go from like 24k to 16k each attack, thats not significant damage? smoke some more crack. BTW I could really give a kitten about this thief if your problem. I just posted a video as an example of thieves high reset potential.

    You are just a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better. As I said before. Keep it up you may just find you bring yet, MORE unwanted attention from Anet about thief balance and get yet more nerfs. (none of which I asked for or suggested)

    Go smoke a little more crack.

    Buddy, stop spamming with "woah you smoke crack!" when you don't have anything of value to respond with.
    Take a few deeper breaths, re-read what I wrote (while you're at it, maybe even re-read your own post I was answering to, just to make sure I am actually responding to what you said, which I do) and answer with something relevant. If you want to randomize insults, look somewhere else.

    You're the one person in this thread that keeps constantly insulting others instead of answering to the contents of their msgs in at least last few of your posts -so much for being "a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better". For real, re-read last few posts and take a good look at yourself in light of what you just wrote.

    Here is a list of the reasons you are wrong in list form to make it simple.

    1) thief is MUCH higher rank
    2) thief keeps resetting out of my combat range.
    2a if I chase I use up my only mobility which is also one of 2 stun breaks.
    2b At this point the thief is free to find a new target or wait for another attack opportunity.
    3) the thief does enough damage to kill me given the chance which is why its attacking.
    4) the thief instigated the fight from stealth ambush on a trailblazer Mirage which the thief's mistake if anyone's.
    5) My entire damage burst on the thief was from confusion which means when the thief goes down its actually from them choosing to activate skills which leads to them taking bust level damage.
    6) the point of my post was to respond to another post about thief having high reset potential in wvw to the point that people complain about it.
    7) You seem to wana nit pick my input methods for skill activation rather than talk about the actual subject.

    Im not going to explain everything to someone who I think is just looking for some kind of soft target. You no valid counter argument.

    You seem to want to counter the fact that thief has massive reset potential by saying, in effect, No your wrong thief is so badly under powered it couldn't possibly kill a Mirage because the thief lost. That isn't a counter argument to the fact that thieves high reset potential or that ultimately means the thief chose to fight and stay in the fight to the loss and had other options that would have let the thief escape the fight it started if it didnt wana be in that fight. PARTICULARLY, when you take into account Im running a built that is using CONFUSION for its burst meaning they had to activate skills to get hurt like they did.....

    eye roll

    So, you beat a guy higher ranked then you while they were on thief, even though they reset.

    Case closed.

    Thief is garbo.

    Garbo thief is garbo, good thief still works. Its very evident to anyone who spends time north of the bridge at Scamp, near borderland entrances, stands around SMC in off hours etc. No shortage of core thiefs, DD and DE in WvW the thief class is alive and well and u know it.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing by choice. Class broken because it can run away".

    Isn't this what you've just said?

    Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =)

    In what way what you said doesn't mean what I said? Explain what you meant then. You were supposed to show thief being op [while playing it], but all you did was link to a vid [from a different mode btw] where you win against thief twice and then claimed "thief lost by choice". Apparently that "choice" being "actually fighting".

    The thief for SURE lost by choice. My post talking about that is VERY clear. You are obviously looking for an agument and hoping to miss represent facts to do it.

    The thief lost by choice because in the video you can literally see the thief stealth and reset out of range many many times. Each time the thief has the option to leave the fight if it ever felt it might lose or was in a losing match-up. Therefore, as I said before the thief was arguably being lazy and assuming it would get the kill because its probably used to face-rolling over Mesmer and others. In other words, the thief CHOSE to ambush me and had multiple chances to leave the fight and live if it ever thought it was in a losing fight. So obviously it thought it was in a winning fight and was wrong. That means it was 100% the thief's choice/mistake all the way from start to finish. Its extremely clear and not even really debatable.

    ...so you think he "lost by choice because he didn't run away". Not sure why you've tried calling me a troll and then repeated what I said (and what you said before).

    You try to say "the thief thought he was in a winning fight" based on what exactly? Based on the fact that he didn't "run away for good," despite needing to disengage multiple times to not die earlier? That's hilarious. Absolutely make sure to tell me where that conclusion came from.
    And the fact that whenever he disengaged and re-engaged, you also had the time to heal up is somehow irrelvant here? It's almost as if he taking his time also give you time to do whatever you want to do and helped you stand your ground.
    You say that "he's used to face-rolling over mesmer and others", but somehow he didn't faceroll you? Why exactly? Why is the thief using stealth or running unfair, but you utilizing your mechanic and standing between your clones is perfectly fine? Running isn't winning, not even close. Even moreso in pvp gamemode btw.

    You really make no sense.

    At which part exactly? (inb4 "all of it" which is not a valid answer, but just an effort to escape facts you don't like :( )

    I was standing still typing in chat, thief stealth attacks me and stealth again so quick that clones cannot reach thief. the thief keeps stealthing and attacking a mostly stationary target (me) who didn't instigate the attack or chase the thief. Repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief because it can restealth so fast after attacks that Mirage (me) almost cannot hit the thief. The thief does significant damage to my Trailblazer Mirage. The thief can reset over and over.

    "stealths and attack a mostly stationary target who didn't instigate the attack"? "repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief?" "significant dmg"? You were at 16k+ hp for vast majority of that fight.
    It's pretty funny because your description here is just a plain lie, maybe you should rewatch your own video before trying to talk back?

    10:02 -start of the fight, thief deals 7k of free dmg because -just like you said- you stand in the middle of wvw and type (not sure how that's supposed to play into you trying to show thief is op, but ok :lol: )
    10:22 -you're already at about the same hp %. Thief stealths, but still takes some condi dmg, now he's at lower hp % (and just flat lower hp, but that was true since the start of the fight, so w/e) than you are. Good job achieving that while claiming the thief is impossible to hit I guess?
    Now you're just standing behind the clones, waiting for the thief to appear/re-engage. Which he does and so he takes more dmg going from 60%+ hp to 20%. All that not exactly by you somehow outplaying him or presenting some hightened gamesense with exceptional mouse-skill-clicking reflexes, but mostly by standing near your clones (which, as you claim, can't even hit the thief -must be magic).
    Thief burns heal and stealths, because he already almost died, while you're still at >16k hp. The fight resets for both of you and at this point... so much for your "he thought he'll easly win theory, when he pretty much already lost once and had to run away.

    Then he re-engages again, tries to burst you, he can't, you stand by the clones, yaddayaddayadda, same story as before, goes down to 11% hp, while you're still at 13k. At this point he disengages again, but you actually even get out of combat first to heal back to full hp when he's still at below 40%. Now YOU engage him, he barely touches you and dies because you're clearly some kind of skill-clicking condi mirage god or something xd

    What kinda stuff are you smoking? I might like some too! Blather on all u like though about thief.

    Aww buddy -pretty clearly if anyone's "smoking something" here, it's not me. Keep making your own reality despite the video you've posted by yourself.

    As you said, I pointed out and then you confirmed again: the thief "lost by choice", because he chose to participate in a fight while in wvw instead of running away and pveing camps I guess.

    So when I go from like 24k to 16k each attack, thats not significant damage? smoke some more crack. BTW I could really give a kitten about this thief if your problem. I just posted a video as an example of thieves high reset potential.

    You are just a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better. As I said before. Keep it up you may just find you bring yet, MORE unwanted attention from Anet about thief balance and get yet more nerfs. (none of which I asked for or suggested)

    Go smoke a little more crack.

    Buddy, stop spamming with "woah you smoke crack!" when you don't have anything of value to respond with.
    Take a few deeper breaths, re-read what I wrote (while you're at it, maybe even re-read your own post I was answering to, just to make sure I am actually responding to what you said, which I do) and answer with something relevant. If you want to randomize insults, look somewhere else.

    You're the one person in this thread that keeps constantly insulting others instead of answering to the contents of their msgs in at least last few of your posts -so much for being "a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better". For real, re-read last few posts and take a good look at yourself in light of what you just wrote.

    Here is a list of the reasons you are wrong in list form to make it simple.

    1) thief is MUCH higher rank
    2) thief keeps resetting out of my combat range.
    2a if I chase I use up my only mobility which is also one of 2 stun breaks.
    2b At this point the thief is free to find a new target or wait for another attack opportunity.
    3) the thief does enough damage to kill me given the chance which is why its attacking.
    4) the thief instigated the fight from stealth ambush on a trailblazer Mirage which the thief's mistake if anyone's.
    5) My entire damage burst on the thief was from confusion which means when the thief goes down its actually from them choosing to activate skills which leads to them taking bust level damage.
    6) the point of my post was to respond to another post about thief having high reset potential in wvw to the point that people complain about it.
    7) You seem to wana nit pick my input methods for skill activation rather than talk about the actual subject.

    Im not going to explain everything to someone who I think is just looking for some kind of soft target. You no valid counter argument.

    You seem to want to counter the fact that thief has massive reset potential by saying, in effect, No your wrong thief is so badly under powered it couldn't possibly kill a Mirage because the thief lost. That isn't a counter argument to the fact that thieves high reset potential or that ultimately means the thief chose to fight and stay in the fight to the loss and had other options that would have let the thief escape the fight it started if it didnt wana be in that fight. PARTICULARLY, when you take into account Im running a built that is using CONFUSION for its burst meaning they had to activate skills to get hurt like they did.....

    eye roll

    So, you beat a guy higher ranked then you while they were on thief, even though they reset.

    Case closed.

    Thief is garbo.

    Garbo thief is garbo, good thief still works. Its very evident to anyone who spends time north of the bridge at Scamp, near borderland entrances, stands around SMC in off hours etc. No shortage of core thiefs, DD and DE in WvW the thief class is alive and well and u know it.

    But your argument is that the thief was a lot better than you, and he still died. So which is it? And eh, thieves nowadays are actually fairly rare for a rogue class. I hardly ever see them, and the few that I do see fail to do anything. The class is not really alive. More undead if anything.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So a 10 second video of me playing the "lol I'm going to decap this point for free and you can't do anything about it" game with somebody just by standing in plain sight within 5000 range of a specific location?

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing by choice. Class broken because it can run away".

    Isn't this what you've just said?

    Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =)

    In what way what you said doesn't mean what I said? Explain what you meant then. You were supposed to show thief being op [while playing it], but all you did was link to a vid [from a different mode btw] where you win against thief twice and then claimed "thief lost by choice". Apparently that "choice" being "actually fighting".

    The thief for SURE lost by choice. My post talking about that is VERY clear. You are obviously looking for an agument and hoping to miss represent facts to do it.

    The thief lost by choice because in the video you can literally see the thief stealth and reset out of range many many times. Each time the thief has the option to leave the fight if it ever felt it might lose or was in a losing match-up. Therefore, as I said before the thief was arguably being lazy and assuming it would get the kill because its probably used to face-rolling over Mesmer and others. In other words, the thief CHOSE to ambush me and had multiple chances to leave the fight and live if it ever thought it was in a losing fight. So obviously it thought it was in a winning fight and was wrong. That means it was 100% the thief's choice/mistake all the way from start to finish. Its extremely clear and not even really debatable.

    ...so you think he "lost by choice because he didn't run away". Not sure why you've tried calling me a troll and then repeated what I said (and what you said before).

    You try to say "the thief thought he was in a winning fight" based on what exactly? Based on the fact that he didn't "run away for good," despite needing to disengage multiple times to not die earlier? That's hilarious. Absolutely make sure to tell me where that conclusion came from.
    And the fact that whenever he disengaged and re-engaged, you also had the time to heal up is somehow irrelvant here? It's almost as if he taking his time also give you time to do whatever you want to do and helped you stand your ground.
    You say that "he's used to face-rolling over mesmer and others", but somehow he didn't faceroll you? Why exactly? Why is the thief using stealth or running unfair, but you utilizing your mechanic and standing between your clones is perfectly fine? Running isn't winning, not even close. Even moreso in pvp gamemode btw.

    You really make no sense.

    At which part exactly? (inb4 "all of it" which is not a valid answer, but just an effort to escape facts you don't like :( )

    I was standing still typing in chat, thief stealth attacks me and stealth again so quick that clones cannot reach thief. the thief keeps stealthing and attacking a mostly stationary target (me) who didn't instigate the attack or chase the thief. Repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief because it can restealth so fast after attacks that Mirage (me) almost cannot hit the thief. The thief does significant damage to my Trailblazer Mirage. The thief can reset over and over.

    "stealths and attack a mostly stationary target who didn't instigate the attack"? "repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief?" "significant dmg"? You were at 16k+ hp for vast majority of that fight.
    It's pretty funny because your description here is just a plain lie, maybe you should rewatch your own video before trying to talk back?

    10:02 -start of the fight, thief deals 7k of free dmg because -just like you said- you stand in the middle of wvw and type (not sure how that's supposed to play into you trying to show thief is op, but ok :lol: )
    10:22 -you're already at about the same hp %. Thief stealths, but still takes some condi dmg, now he's at lower hp % (and just flat lower hp, but that was true since the start of the fight, so w/e) than you are. Good job achieving that while claiming the thief is impossible to hit I guess?
    Now you're just standing behind the clones, waiting for the thief to appear/re-engage. Which he does and so he takes more dmg going from 60%+ hp to 20%. All that not exactly by you somehow outplaying him or presenting some hightened gamesense with exceptional mouse-skill-clicking reflexes, but mostly by standing near your clones (which, as you claim, can't even hit the thief -must be magic).
    Thief burns heal and stealths, because he already almost died, while you're still at >16k hp. The fight resets for both of you and at this point... so much for your "he thought he'll easly win theory, when he pretty much already lost once and had to run away.

    Then he re-engages again, tries to burst you, he can't, you stand by the clones, yaddayaddayadda, same story as before, goes down to 11% hp, while you're still at 13k. At this point he disengages again, but you actually even get out of combat first to heal back to full hp when he's still at below 40%. Now YOU engage him, he barely touches you and dies because you're clearly some kind of skill-clicking condi mirage god or something xd

    What kinda stuff are you smoking? I might like some too! Blather on all u like though about thief.

    Aww buddy -pretty clearly if anyone's "smoking something" here, it's not me. Keep making your own reality despite the video you've posted by yourself.

    As you said, I pointed out and then you confirmed again: the thief "lost by choice", because he chose to participate in a fight while in wvw instead of running away and pveing camps I guess.

    So when I go from like 24k to 16k each attack, thats not significant damage? smoke some more crack. BTW I could really give a kitten about this thief if your problem. I just posted a video as an example of thieves high reset potential.

    You are just a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better. As I said before. Keep it up you may just find you bring yet, MORE unwanted attention from Anet about thief balance and get yet more nerfs. (none of which I asked for or suggested)

    Go smoke a little more crack.

    Buddy, stop spamming with "woah you smoke crack!" when you don't have anything of value to respond with.
    Take a few deeper breaths, re-read what I wrote (while you're at it, maybe even re-read your own post I was answering to, just to make sure I am actually responding to what you said, which I do) and answer with something relevant. If you want to randomize insults, look somewhere else.

    You're the one person in this thread that keeps constantly insulting others instead of answering to the contents of their msgs in at least last few of your posts -so much for being "a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better". For real, re-read last few posts and take a good look at yourself in light of what you just wrote.

    Here is a list of the reasons you are wrong in list form to make it simple.

    Great.

    1) thief is MUCH higher rank

    Rank is mostly irrelevant and can be farmed by running in zergs and spamming aoes. WvW rank isn't an equivalent of some sort of literal "ranked ladder". We're discussing certain mechanics and classes, in this case based on a specific situation from the video you've posted. Respond accordingly, instead of taking shortcuts by claiming rank is a factor here.

    2) thief keeps resetting out of my combat range
    2a if I chase I use up my only mobility which is also one of 2 stun breaks.
    2b At this point the thief is free to find a new target or wait for another attack opportunity.

    Then... don't chase. What's the problem here? Thief uses resources to run and then uses resources to go in if you're not playing like thief wants you to play. You stood your ground and he didn't do much. Then YOU engaged when you went OOC before the thief and were able to kill him. So what's the problem? That you can't just blindly chase someone without thinking? Being able to stand your ground instead of running away is even more relevant if we' remember we're in pvp mode subforum.
    Once again, "running away" is far from winning. And willingness to fight 1v1 is far from "losing by choice".

    3) the thief does enough damage to kill me given the chance which is why its attacking.

    I don't know what this point is supposed to be responding to. We saw he wasn't able to kill you despite getting initial free shots due to you literally standing in the middle of wvw and typing. "The class does enough dmg to have a chance of winning" -well it sure better have a chance or what's the point here? It's still not an equivalent of you claiming "he was sure to have an easy kill", which most probably wasn't the case judging how the fight went for an extended period of time.

    4) the thief instigated the fight from stealth ambush on a trailblazer Mirage which the thief's mistake if anyone's.

    So thief is so broken that he shouldn't fight your class because it's a loss? Again, I don't understand how this proves what OP asked you to prove.

    5) My entire damage burst on the thief was from confusion which means when the thief goes down its actually from them choosing to activate skills which leads to them taking bust level damage.

    I wonder how the thief is supposed to disengage without using skills. Again, what does this point change about this situation? That you can counter the disengage? That's the opposite of your initial claims and opposite of what OP was asking for.

    6) the point of my post was to respond to another post about thief having high reset potential in wvw to the point that people complain about it.

    No, don't try to change the facts again. What you were answering to was literally this thread's opening post, which you've even quoted:
    "I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift."

    To which you also wrote that:
    -"thief lost by choice" -AGAIN, apparently that "choice to lose" being not deciding to run away, which you constantly try to deny now, while also writing exactly that
    -"What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst." -yup, he is. And that's what he does. And the result doesn't change. Which in the pvp mode just means he's not capping the point from you. BUT HEY, that's only because I chose to have trailblazer so he can't easly burst me down! well, duh. You picked a build and now it's hard for the thief to win with you even if he disengages multiple times. Until you have that option available in the game, I'm not sure why you're complaining. One way or another, this video showed the opposite of what OP asked for.
    -"At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact." -that's false and I think I pointed that out sufficiently clear in the post where I gave you a little, uh, breakdown of your own replay. If the thief was not touched by your clones, he wouldn't need to constantly disengage in the first place, while in reality most of the time he had less hp than you did.
    -"Most of the time these fights go to the thief." -the thief tried dis-/re-engageing multiple times and the result was similar in every case. Play the thief and farm trailblazer mirages or something, then you'll do what OP asked for. Do you understand the difference between what was asked for and what you delivered/wrote about?

    7) You seem to wana nit pick my input methods for skill activation rather than talk about the actual subject.

    Yes, I totally "want to nit pick", which is why I'm responding to your posts as a whole, while you constantly dogde what I'm saying. Because your input method was clearly the main point of my posts here, ok.

    Im not going to explain everything to someone who I think is just looking for some kind of soft target. You no valid counter argument.

    No valid counter argument? I keep responding to what you write, I'm not sure what else you expect from a discussion -not only this, but literally any. Did I miss some crucial parts of your posts or lied about what happened in your video or about what you wrote? I don't think I did, but IF I did, then by all means make sure to point it out.

    You seem to want to counter the fact that thief has massive reset potential by saying, in effect, No your wrong thief is so badly under powered it couldn't possibly kill a Mirage because the thief lost. That isn't a counter argument to the fact that thieves high reset potential or that ultimately means the thief chose to fight and stay in the fight to the loss and had other options that would have let the thief escape the fight it started if it didnt wana be in that fight. PARTICULARLY, when you take into account Im running a built that is using CONFUSION for its burst meaning they had to activate skills to get hurt like they did.....

    That's by far not what I said. I said that engaging in a fight isn't choosing to lose. That running isn't winning (even moreso in pvp). That what you linked and wrote isn't an answer to what OP asked for.
    Yes, the thief used skills. Tell me how he was supposed to try to disengage without doing that.
    Also if I tried to claim that "thief is so badly underpowered it couldn't possibly kill a [whatever]", you can be sure I'd be lobbying for some teef buffs, which I'm not doing -not here and not anywhere. So that seems like a miss to me.

    It doesn't matter what I say you will continue to whine. I find it kinda funny.

    Ah, so you're back to doing... this. I didn't whine, I literally responded to everything you said. I understand you're done here, so I guess I am too. Next time you respond, try actually answering to the contents of my post.

    I never left, its really easy to hit refresh see your post and say. I wouldn't want to disappoint u. ;)

    Never said you left, but why would I suddenly expect you to answer to what I actually wrote :D

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

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    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing by choice. Class broken because it can run away".

    Isn't this what you've just said?

    Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =)

    In what way what you said doesn't mean what I said? Explain what you meant then. You were supposed to show thief being op [while playing it], but all you did was link to a vid [from a different mode btw] where you win against thief twice and then claimed "thief lost by choice". Apparently that "choice" being "actually fighting".

    The thief for SURE lost by choice. My post talking about that is VERY clear. You are obviously looking for an agument and hoping to miss represent facts to do it.

    The thief lost by choice because in the video you can literally see the thief stealth and reset out of range many many times. Each time the thief has the option to leave the fight if it ever felt it might lose or was in a losing match-up. Therefore, as I said before the thief was arguably being lazy and assuming it would get the kill because its probably used to face-rolling over Mesmer and others. In other words, the thief CHOSE to ambush me and had multiple chances to leave the fight and live if it ever thought it was in a losing fight. So obviously it thought it was in a winning fight and was wrong. That means it was 100% the thief's choice/mistake all the way from start to finish. Its extremely clear and not even really debatable.

    ...so you think he "lost by choice because he didn't run away". Not sure why you've tried calling me a troll and then repeated what I said (and what you said before).

    You try to say "the thief thought he was in a winning fight" based on what exactly? Based on the fact that he didn't "run away for good," despite needing to disengage multiple times to not die earlier? That's hilarious. Absolutely make sure to tell me where that conclusion came from.
    And the fact that whenever he disengaged and re-engaged, you also had the time to heal up is somehow irrelvant here? It's almost as if he taking his time also give you time to do whatever you want to do and helped you stand your ground.
    You say that "he's used to face-rolling over mesmer and others", but somehow he didn't faceroll you? Why exactly? Why is the thief using stealth or running unfair, but you utilizing your mechanic and standing between your clones is perfectly fine? Running isn't winning, not even close. Even moreso in pvp gamemode btw.

    You really make no sense.

    At which part exactly? (inb4 "all of it" which is not a valid answer, but just an effort to escape facts you don't like :( )

    I was standing still typing in chat, thief stealth attacks me and stealth again so quick that clones cannot reach thief. the thief keeps stealthing and attacking a mostly stationary target (me) who didn't instigate the attack or chase the thief. Repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief because it can restealth so fast after attacks that Mirage (me) almost cannot hit the thief. The thief does significant damage to my Trailblazer Mirage. The thief can reset over and over.

    "stealths and attack a mostly stationary target who didn't instigate the attack"? "repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief?" "significant dmg"? You were at 16k+ hp for vast majority of that fight.
    It's pretty funny because your description here is just a plain lie, maybe you should rewatch your own video before trying to talk back?

    10:02 -start of the fight, thief deals 7k of free dmg because -just like you said- you stand in the middle of wvw and type (not sure how that's supposed to play into you trying to show thief is op, but ok :lol: )
    10:22 -you're already at about the same hp %. Thief stealths, but still takes some condi dmg, now he's at lower hp % (and just flat lower hp, but that was true since the start of the fight, so w/e) than you are. Good job achieving that while claiming the thief is impossible to hit I guess?
    Now you're just standing behind the clones, waiting for the thief to appear/re-engage. Which he does and so he takes more dmg going from 60%+ hp to 20%. All that not exactly by you somehow outplaying him or presenting some hightened gamesense with exceptional mouse-skill-clicking reflexes, but mostly by standing near your clones (which, as you claim, can't even hit the thief -must be magic).
    Thief burns heal and stealths, because he already almost died, while you're still at >16k hp. The fight resets for both of you and at this point... so much for your "he thought he'll easly win theory, when he pretty much already lost once and had to run away.

    Then he re-engages again, tries to burst you, he can't, you stand by the clones, yaddayaddayadda, same story as before, goes down to 11% hp, while you're still at 13k. At this point he disengages again, but you actually even get out of combat first to heal back to full hp when he's still at below 40%. Now YOU engage him, he barely touches you and dies because you're clearly some kind of skill-clicking condi mirage god or something xd

    What kinda stuff are you smoking? I might like some too! Blather on all u like though about thief.

    Aww buddy -pretty clearly if anyone's "smoking something" here, it's not me. Keep making your own reality despite the video you've posted by yourself.

    As you said, I pointed out and then you confirmed again: the thief "lost by choice", because he chose to participate in a fight while in wvw instead of running away and pveing camps I guess.

    So when I go from like 24k to 16k each attack, thats not significant damage? smoke some more crack. BTW I could really give a kitten about this thief if your problem. I just posted a video as an example of thieves high reset potential.

    You are just a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better. As I said before. Keep it up you may just find you bring yet, MORE unwanted attention from Anet about thief balance and get yet more nerfs. (none of which I asked for or suggested)

    Go smoke a little more crack.

    Buddy, stop spamming with "woah you smoke crack!" when you don't have anything of value to respond with.
    Take a few deeper breaths, re-read what I wrote (while you're at it, maybe even re-read your own post I was answering to, just to make sure I am actually responding to what you said, which I do) and answer with something relevant. If you want to randomize insults, look somewhere else.

    You're the one person in this thread that keeps constantly insulting others instead of answering to the contents of their msgs in at least last few of your posts -so much for being "a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better". For real, re-read last few posts and take a good look at yourself in light of what you just wrote.

    Here is a list of the reasons you are wrong in list form to make it simple.

    Great.

    1) thief is MUCH higher rank

    Rank is mostly irrelevant and can be farmed by running in zergs and spamming aoes. WvW rank isn't an equivalent of some sort of literal "ranked ladder". We're discussing certain mechanics and classes, in this case based on a specific situation from the video you've posted. Respond accordingly, instead of taking shortcuts by claiming rank is a factor here.

    2) thief keeps resetting out of my combat range
    2a if I chase I use up my only mobility which is also one of 2 stun breaks.
    2b At this point the thief is free to find a new target or wait for another attack opportunity.

    Then... don't chase. What's the problem here? Thief uses resources to run and then uses resources to go in if you're not playing like thief wants you to play. You stood your ground and he didn't do much. Then YOU engaged when you went OOC before the thief and were able to kill him. So what's the problem? That you can't just blindly chase someone without thinking? Being able to stand your ground instead of running away is even more relevant if we' remember we're in pvp mode subforum.
    Once again, "running away" is far from winning. And willingness to fight 1v1 is far from "losing by choice".

    3) the thief does enough damage to kill me given the chance which is why its attacking.

    I don't know what this point is supposed to be responding to. We saw he wasn't able to kill you despite getting initial free shots due to you literally standing in the middle of wvw and typing. "The class does enough dmg to have a chance of winning" -well it sure better have a chance or what's the point here? It's still not an equivalent of you claiming "he was sure to have an easy kill", which most probably wasn't the case judging how the fight went for an extended period of time.

    4) the thief instigated the fight from stealth ambush on a trailblazer Mirage which the thief's mistake if anyone's.

    So thief is so broken that he shouldn't fight your class because it's a loss? Again, I don't understand how this proves what OP asked you to prove.

    5) My entire damage burst on the thief was from confusion which means when the thief goes down its actually from them choosing to activate skills which leads to them taking bust level damage.

    I wonder how the thief is supposed to disengage without using skills. Again, what does this point change about this situation? That you can counter the disengage? That's the opposite of your initial claims and opposite of what OP was asking for.

    6) the point of my post was to respond to another post about thief having high reset potential in wvw to the point that people complain about it.

    No, don't try to change the facts again. What you were answering to was literally this thread's opening post, which you've even quoted:
    "I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift."

    To which you also wrote that:
    -"thief lost by choice" -AGAIN, apparently that "choice to lose" being not deciding to run away, which you constantly try to deny now, while also writing exactly that
    -"What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst." -yup, he is. And that's what he does. And the result doesn't change. Which in the pvp mode just means he's not capping the point from you. BUT HEY, that's only because I chose to have trailblazer so he can't easly burst me down! well, duh. You picked a build and now it's hard for the thief to win with you even if he disengages multiple times. Until you have that option available in the game, I'm not sure why you're complaining. One way or another, this video showed the opposite of what OP asked for.
    -"At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact." -that's false and I think I pointed that out sufficiently clear in the post where I gave you a little, uh, breakdown of your own replay. If the thief was not touched by your clones, he wouldn't need to constantly disengage in the first place, while in reality most of the time he had less hp than you did.
    -"Most of the time these fights go to the thief." -the thief tried dis-/re-engageing multiple times and the result was similar in every case. Play the thief and farm trailblazer mirages or something, then you'll do what OP asked for. Do you understand the difference between what was asked for and what you delivered/wrote about?

    7) You seem to wana nit pick my input methods for skill activation rather than talk about the actual subject.

    Yes, I totally "want to nit pick", which is why I'm responding to your posts as a whole, while you constantly dogde what I'm saying. Because your input method was clearly the main point of my posts here, ok.

    Im not going to explain everything to someone who I think is just looking for some kind of soft target. You no valid counter argument.

    No valid counter argument? I keep responding to what you write, I'm not sure what else you expect from a discussion -not only this, but literally any. Did I miss some crucial parts of your posts or lied about what happened in your video or about what you wrote? I don't think I did, but IF I did, then by all means make sure to point it out.

    You seem to want to counter the fact that thief has massive reset potential by saying, in effect, No your wrong thief is so badly under powered it couldn't possibly kill a Mirage because the thief lost. That isn't a counter argument to the fact that thieves high reset potential or that ultimately means the thief chose to fight and stay in the fight to the loss and had other options that would have let the thief escape the fight it started if it didnt wana be in that fight. PARTICULARLY, when you take into account Im running a built that is using CONFUSION for its burst meaning they had to activate skills to get hurt like they did.....

    That's by far not what I said. I said that engaging in a fight isn't choosing to lose. That running isn't winning (even moreso in pvp). That what you linked and wrote isn't an answer to what OP asked for.
    Yes, the thief used skills. Tell me how he was supposed to try to disengage without doing that.
    Also if I tried to claim that "thief is so badly underpowered it couldn't possibly kill a [whatever]", you can be sure I'd be lobbying for some teef buffs, which I'm not doing -not here and not anywhere. So that seems like a miss to me.

    It doesn't matter what I say you will continue to whine. I find it kinda funny.

    Ah, so you're back to doing... this. I didn't whine, I literally responded to everything you said. I understand you're done here, so I guess I am too. Next time you respond, try actually answering to the contents of my post.

    I never left, its really easy to hit refresh see your post and say. I wouldn't want to disappoint u. ;)

    Never said you left, but why would I suddenly expect you to answer to what I actually wrote :D

    u just didnt like the answer.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

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    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing by choice. Class broken because it can run away".

    Isn't this what you've just said?

    Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =)

    In what way what you said doesn't mean what I said? Explain what you meant then. You were supposed to show thief being op [while playing it], but all you did was link to a vid [from a different mode btw] where you win against thief twice and then claimed "thief lost by choice". Apparently that "choice" being "actually fighting".

    The thief for SURE lost by choice. My post talking about that is VERY clear. You are obviously looking for an agument and hoping to miss represent facts to do it.

    The thief lost by choice because in the video you can literally see the thief stealth and reset out of range many many times. Each time the thief has the option to leave the fight if it ever felt it might lose or was in a losing match-up. Therefore, as I said before the thief was arguably being lazy and assuming it would get the kill because its probably used to face-rolling over Mesmer and others. In other words, the thief CHOSE to ambush me and had multiple chances to leave the fight and live if it ever thought it was in a losing fight. So obviously it thought it was in a winning fight and was wrong. That means it was 100% the thief's choice/mistake all the way from start to finish. Its extremely clear and not even really debatable.

    ...so you think he "lost by choice because he didn't run away". Not sure why you've tried calling me a troll and then repeated what I said (and what you said before).

    You try to say "the thief thought he was in a winning fight" based on what exactly? Based on the fact that he didn't "run away for good," despite needing to disengage multiple times to not die earlier? That's hilarious. Absolutely make sure to tell me where that conclusion came from.
    And the fact that whenever he disengaged and re-engaged, you also had the time to heal up is somehow irrelvant here? It's almost as if he taking his time also give you time to do whatever you want to do and helped you stand your ground.
    You say that "he's used to face-rolling over mesmer and others", but somehow he didn't faceroll you? Why exactly? Why is the thief using stealth or running unfair, but you utilizing your mechanic and standing between your clones is perfectly fine? Running isn't winning, not even close. Even moreso in pvp gamemode btw.

    You really make no sense.

    At which part exactly? (inb4 "all of it" which is not a valid answer, but just an effort to escape facts you don't like :( )

    I was standing still typing in chat, thief stealth attacks me and stealth again so quick that clones cannot reach thief. the thief keeps stealthing and attacking a mostly stationary target (me) who didn't instigate the attack or chase the thief. Repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief because it can restealth so fast after attacks that Mirage (me) almost cannot hit the thief. The thief does significant damage to my Trailblazer Mirage. The thief can reset over and over.

    "stealths and attack a mostly stationary target who didn't instigate the attack"? "repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief?" "significant dmg"? You were at 16k+ hp for vast majority of that fight.
    It's pretty funny because your description here is just a plain lie, maybe you should rewatch your own video before trying to talk back?

    10:02 -start of the fight, thief deals 7k of free dmg because -just like you said- you stand in the middle of wvw and type (not sure how that's supposed to play into you trying to show thief is op, but ok :lol: )
    10:22 -you're already at about the same hp %. Thief stealths, but still takes some condi dmg, now he's at lower hp % (and just flat lower hp, but that was true since the start of the fight, so w/e) than you are. Good job achieving that while claiming the thief is impossible to hit I guess?
    Now you're just standing behind the clones, waiting for the thief to appear/re-engage. Which he does and so he takes more dmg going from 60%+ hp to 20%. All that not exactly by you somehow outplaying him or presenting some hightened gamesense with exceptional mouse-skill-clicking reflexes, but mostly by standing near your clones (which, as you claim, can't even hit the thief -must be magic).
    Thief burns heal and stealths, because he already almost died, while you're still at >16k hp. The fight resets for both of you and at this point... so much for your "he thought he'll easly win theory, when he pretty much already lost once and had to run away.

    Then he re-engages again, tries to burst you, he can't, you stand by the clones, yaddayaddayadda, same story as before, goes down to 11% hp, while you're still at 13k. At this point he disengages again, but you actually even get out of combat first to heal back to full hp when he's still at below 40%. Now YOU engage him, he barely touches you and dies because you're clearly some kind of skill-clicking condi mirage god or something xd

    What kinda stuff are you smoking? I might like some too! Blather on all u like though about thief.

    Aww buddy -pretty clearly if anyone's "smoking something" here, it's not me. Keep making your own reality despite the video you've posted by yourself.

    As you said, I pointed out and then you confirmed again: the thief "lost by choice", because he chose to participate in a fight while in wvw instead of running away and pveing camps I guess.

    So when I go from like 24k to 16k each attack, thats not significant damage? smoke some more crack. BTW I could really give a kitten about this thief if your problem. I just posted a video as an example of thieves high reset potential.

    You are just a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better. As I said before. Keep it up you may just find you bring yet, MORE unwanted attention from Anet about thief balance and get yet more nerfs. (none of which I asked for or suggested)

    Go smoke a little more crack.

    Buddy, stop spamming with "woah you smoke crack!" when you don't have anything of value to respond with.
    Take a few deeper breaths, re-read what I wrote (while you're at it, maybe even re-read your own post I was answering to, just to make sure I am actually responding to what you said, which I do) and answer with something relevant. If you want to randomize insults, look somewhere else.

    You're the one person in this thread that keeps constantly insulting others instead of answering to the contents of their msgs in at least last few of your posts -so much for being "a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better". For real, re-read last few posts and take a good look at yourself in light of what you just wrote.

    Here is a list of the reasons you are wrong in list form to make it simple.

    Great.

    1) thief is MUCH higher rank

    Rank is mostly irrelevant and can be farmed by running in zergs and spamming aoes. WvW rank isn't an equivalent of some sort of literal "ranked ladder". We're discussing certain mechanics and classes, in this case based on a specific situation from the video you've posted. Respond accordingly, instead of taking shortcuts by claiming rank is a factor here.

    2) thief keeps resetting out of my combat range
    2a if I chase I use up my only mobility which is also one of 2 stun breaks.
    2b At this point the thief is free to find a new target or wait for another attack opportunity.

    Then... don't chase. What's the problem here? Thief uses resources to run and then uses resources to go in if you're not playing like thief wants you to play. You stood your ground and he didn't do much. Then YOU engaged when you went OOC before the thief and were able to kill him. So what's the problem? That you can't just blindly chase someone without thinking? Being able to stand your ground instead of running away is even more relevant if we' remember we're in pvp mode subforum.
    Once again, "running away" is far from winning. And willingness to fight 1v1 is far from "losing by choice".

    3) the thief does enough damage to kill me given the chance which is why its attacking.

    I don't know what this point is supposed to be responding to. We saw he wasn't able to kill you despite getting initial free shots due to you literally standing in the middle of wvw and typing. "The class does enough dmg to have a chance of winning" -well it sure better have a chance or what's the point here? It's still not an equivalent of you claiming "he was sure to have an easy kill", which most probably wasn't the case judging how the fight went for an extended period of time.

    4) the thief instigated the fight from stealth ambush on a trailblazer Mirage which the thief's mistake if anyone's.

    So thief is so broken that he shouldn't fight your class because it's a loss? Again, I don't understand how this proves what OP asked you to prove.

    5) My entire damage burst on the thief was from confusion which means when the thief goes down its actually from them choosing to activate skills which leads to them taking bust level damage.

    I wonder how the thief is supposed to disengage without using skills. Again, what does this point change about this situation? That you can counter the disengage? That's the opposite of your initial claims and opposite of what OP was asking for.

    6) the point of my post was to respond to another post about thief having high reset potential in wvw to the point that people complain about it.

    No, don't try to change the facts again. What you were answering to was literally this thread's opening post, which you've even quoted:
    "I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift."

    To which you also wrote that:
    -"thief lost by choice" -AGAIN, apparently that "choice to lose" being not deciding to run away, which you constantly try to deny now, while also writing exactly that
    -"What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst." -yup, he is. And that's what he does. And the result doesn't change. Which in the pvp mode just means he's not capping the point from you. BUT HEY, that's only because I chose to have trailblazer so he can't easly burst me down! well, duh. You picked a build and now it's hard for the thief to win with you even if he disengages multiple times. Until you have that option available in the game, I'm not sure why you're complaining. One way or another, this video showed the opposite of what OP asked for.
    -"At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact." -that's false and I think I pointed that out sufficiently clear in the post where I gave you a little, uh, breakdown of your own replay. If the thief was not touched by your clones, he wouldn't need to constantly disengage in the first place, while in reality most of the time he had less hp than you did.
    -"Most of the time these fights go to the thief." -the thief tried dis-/re-engageing multiple times and the result was similar in every case. Play the thief and farm trailblazer mirages or something, then you'll do what OP asked for. Do you understand the difference between what was asked for and what you delivered/wrote about?

    7) You seem to wana nit pick my input methods for skill activation rather than talk about the actual subject.

    Yes, I totally "want to nit pick", which is why I'm responding to your posts as a whole, while you constantly dogde what I'm saying. Because your input method was clearly the main point of my posts here, ok.

    Im not going to explain everything to someone who I think is just looking for some kind of soft target. You no valid counter argument.

    No valid counter argument? I keep responding to what you write, I'm not sure what else you expect from a discussion -not only this, but literally any. Did I miss some crucial parts of your posts or lied about what happened in your video or about what you wrote? I don't think I did, but IF I did, then by all means make sure to point it out.

    You seem to want to counter the fact that thief has massive reset potential by saying, in effect, No your wrong thief is so badly under powered it couldn't possibly kill a Mirage because the thief lost. That isn't a counter argument to the fact that thieves high reset potential or that ultimately means the thief chose to fight and stay in the fight to the loss and had other options that would have let the thief escape the fight it started if it didnt wana be in that fight. PARTICULARLY, when you take into account Im running a built that is using CONFUSION for its burst meaning they had to activate skills to get hurt like they did.....

    That's by far not what I said. I said that engaging in a fight isn't choosing to lose. That running isn't winning (even moreso in pvp). That what you linked and wrote isn't an answer to what OP asked for.
    Yes, the thief used skills. Tell me how he was supposed to try to disengage without doing that.
    Also if I tried to claim that "thief is so badly underpowered it couldn't possibly kill a [whatever]", you can be sure I'd be lobbying for some teef buffs, which I'm not doing -not here and not anywhere. So that seems like a miss to me.

    It doesn't matter what I say you will continue to whine. I find it kinda funny.

    Ah, so you're back to doing... this. I didn't whine, I literally responded to everything you said. I understand you're done here, so I guess I am too. Next time you respond, try actually answering to the contents of my post.

    I never left, its really easy to hit refresh see your post and say. I wouldn't want to disappoint u. ;)

    Never said you left, but why would I suddenly expect you to answer to what I actually wrote :D

    u just didnt like the answer.

    Nah, you clearly just dodged what I wrote and still do. o/

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift.

    Sure here is a video I made recently. exactly 10 minutes into the video I ambushed by an high rank d/p thief. Although I did defeat the thief in both fights, I think its pretty clear that the thief lost almost by choice. What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst. At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact. The actual kill on the thief is very short using confusion, which is NOT easy. Most of the time these fights go to the thief.

    Exactly 10 minutes into the video my fight with a d/p DD starts. The clip right after is the DDs 2nd attempt which also fails.

    "I can consistently win against thieves if they decide to fight me, but if they decide to fight me then it's automatically losing by choice. Class broken because it can run away".

    Isn't this what you've just said?

    Obviously not. Your statement smells like troll bait. =)

    In what way what you said doesn't mean what I said? Explain what you meant then. You were supposed to show thief being op [while playing it], but all you did was link to a vid [from a different mode btw] where you win against thief twice and then claimed "thief lost by choice". Apparently that "choice" being "actually fighting".

    The thief for SURE lost by choice. My post talking about that is VERY clear. You are obviously looking for an agument and hoping to miss represent facts to do it.

    The thief lost by choice because in the video you can literally see the thief stealth and reset out of range many many times. Each time the thief has the option to leave the fight if it ever felt it might lose or was in a losing match-up. Therefore, as I said before the thief was arguably being lazy and assuming it would get the kill because its probably used to face-rolling over Mesmer and others. In other words, the thief CHOSE to ambush me and had multiple chances to leave the fight and live if it ever thought it was in a losing fight. So obviously it thought it was in a winning fight and was wrong. That means it was 100% the thief's choice/mistake all the way from start to finish. Its extremely clear and not even really debatable.

    ...so you think he "lost by choice because he didn't run away". Not sure why you've tried calling me a troll and then repeated what I said (and what you said before).

    You try to say "the thief thought he was in a winning fight" based on what exactly? Based on the fact that he didn't "run away for good," despite needing to disengage multiple times to not die earlier? That's hilarious. Absolutely make sure to tell me where that conclusion came from.
    And the fact that whenever he disengaged and re-engaged, you also had the time to heal up is somehow irrelvant here? It's almost as if he taking his time also give you time to do whatever you want to do and helped you stand your ground.
    You say that "he's used to face-rolling over mesmer and others", but somehow he didn't faceroll you? Why exactly? Why is the thief using stealth or running unfair, but you utilizing your mechanic and standing between your clones is perfectly fine? Running isn't winning, not even close. Even moreso in pvp gamemode btw.

    You really make no sense.

    At which part exactly? (inb4 "all of it" which is not a valid answer, but just an effort to escape facts you don't like :( )

    I was standing still typing in chat, thief stealth attacks me and stealth again so quick that clones cannot reach thief. the thief keeps stealthing and attacking a mostly stationary target (me) who didn't instigate the attack or chase the thief. Repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief because it can restealth so fast after attacks that Mirage (me) almost cannot hit the thief. The thief does significant damage to my Trailblazer Mirage. The thief can reset over and over.

    "stealths and attack a mostly stationary target who didn't instigate the attack"? "repeatedly the clones cannot even hit the thief?" "significant dmg"? You were at 16k+ hp for vast majority of that fight.
    It's pretty funny because your description here is just a plain lie, maybe you should rewatch your own video before trying to talk back?

    10:02 -start of the fight, thief deals 7k of free dmg because -just like you said- you stand in the middle of wvw and type (not sure how that's supposed to play into you trying to show thief is op, but ok :lol: )
    10:22 -you're already at about the same hp %. Thief stealths, but still takes some condi dmg, now he's at lower hp % (and just flat lower hp, but that was true since the start of the fight, so w/e) than you are. Good job achieving that while claiming the thief is impossible to hit I guess?
    Now you're just standing behind the clones, waiting for the thief to appear/re-engage. Which he does and so he takes more dmg going from 60%+ hp to 20%. All that not exactly by you somehow outplaying him or presenting some hightened gamesense with exceptional mouse-skill-clicking reflexes, but mostly by standing near your clones (which, as you claim, can't even hit the thief -must be magic).
    Thief burns heal and stealths, because he already almost died, while you're still at >16k hp. The fight resets for both of you and at this point... so much for your "he thought he'll easly win theory, when he pretty much already lost once and had to run away.

    Then he re-engages again, tries to burst you, he can't, you stand by the clones, yaddayaddayadda, same story as before, goes down to 11% hp, while you're still at 13k. At this point he disengages again, but you actually even get out of combat first to heal back to full hp when he's still at below 40%. Now YOU engage him, he barely touches you and dies because you're clearly some kind of skill-clicking condi mirage god or something xd

    What kinda stuff are you smoking? I might like some too! Blather on all u like though about thief.

    Aww buddy -pretty clearly if anyone's "smoking something" here, it's not me. Keep making your own reality despite the video you've posted by yourself.

    As you said, I pointed out and then you confirmed again: the thief "lost by choice", because he chose to participate in a fight while in wvw instead of running away and pveing camps I guess.

    So when I go from like 24k to 16k each attack, thats not significant damage? smoke some more crack. BTW I could really give a kitten about this thief if your problem. I just posted a video as an example of thieves high reset potential.

    You are just a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better. As I said before. Keep it up you may just find you bring yet, MORE unwanted attention from Anet about thief balance and get yet more nerfs. (none of which I asked for or suggested)

    Go smoke a little more crack.

    Buddy, stop spamming with "woah you smoke crack!" when you don't have anything of value to respond with.
    Take a few deeper breaths, re-read what I wrote (while you're at it, maybe even re-read your own post I was answering to, just to make sure I am actually responding to what you said, which I do) and answer with something relevant. If you want to randomize insults, look somewhere else.

    You're the one person in this thread that keeps constantly insulting others instead of answering to the contents of their msgs in at least last few of your posts -so much for being "a bitter player looking to attack someone to make yourself feel better". For real, re-read last few posts and take a good look at yourself in light of what you just wrote.

    Here is a list of the reasons you are wrong in list form to make it simple.

    Great.

    1) thief is MUCH higher rank

    Rank is mostly irrelevant and can be farmed by running in zergs and spamming aoes. WvW rank isn't an equivalent of some sort of literal "ranked ladder". We're discussing certain mechanics and classes, in this case based on a specific situation from the video you've posted. Respond accordingly, instead of taking shortcuts by claiming rank is a factor here.

    2) thief keeps resetting out of my combat range
    2a if I chase I use up my only mobility which is also one of 2 stun breaks.
    2b At this point the thief is free to find a new target or wait for another attack opportunity.

    Then... don't chase. What's the problem here? Thief uses resources to run and then uses resources to go in if you're not playing like thief wants you to play. You stood your ground and he didn't do much. Then YOU engaged when you went OOC before the thief and were able to kill him. So what's the problem? That you can't just blindly chase someone without thinking? Being able to stand your ground instead of running away is even more relevant if we' remember we're in pvp mode subforum.
    Once again, "running away" is far from winning. And willingness to fight 1v1 is far from "losing by choice".

    3) the thief does enough damage to kill me given the chance which is why its attacking.

    I don't know what this point is supposed to be responding to. We saw he wasn't able to kill you despite getting initial free shots due to you literally standing in the middle of wvw and typing. "The class does enough dmg to have a chance of winning" -well it sure better have a chance or what's the point here? It's still not an equivalent of you claiming "he was sure to have an easy kill", which most probably wasn't the case judging how the fight went for an extended period of time.

    4) the thief instigated the fight from stealth ambush on a trailblazer Mirage which the thief's mistake if anyone's.

    So thief is so broken that he shouldn't fight your class because it's a loss? Again, I don't understand how this proves what OP asked you to prove.

    5) My entire damage burst on the thief was from confusion which means when the thief goes down its actually from them choosing to activate skills which leads to them taking bust level damage.

    I wonder how the thief is supposed to disengage without using skills. Again, what does this point change about this situation? That you can counter the disengage? That's the opposite of your initial claims and opposite of what OP was asking for.

    6) the point of my post was to respond to another post about thief having high reset potential in wvw to the point that people complain about it.

    No, don't try to change the facts again. What you were answering to was literally this thread's opening post, which you've even quoted:
    "I would like to see YOU, the one complaining about thief, show casing how thief is OP, and can we see last 10 games played on thief screenshot with at or above 50% win rate? It is a sad state of affairs when devs balance the game around streamers. Some really do nothing else, and I would hope that means they are good at the game, if you get my drift."

    To which you also wrote that:
    -"thief lost by choice" -AGAIN, apparently that "choice to lose" being not deciding to run away, which you constantly try to deny now, while also writing exactly that
    -"What I mean is, the thief is able to reset over and over trying to get a burst." -yup, he is. And that's what he does. And the result doesn't change. Which in the pvp mode just means he's not capping the point from you. BUT HEY, that's only because I chose to have trailblazer so he can't easly burst me down! well, duh. You picked a build and now it's hard for the thief to win with you even if he disengages multiple times. Until you have that option available in the game, I'm not sure why you're complaining. One way or another, this video showed the opposite of what OP asked for.
    -"At the same time, on Mirage my clones run around and almost never actually make contact." -that's false and I think I pointed that out sufficiently clear in the post where I gave you a little, uh, breakdown of your own replay. If the thief was not touched by your clones, he wouldn't need to constantly disengage in the first place, while in reality most of the time he had less hp than you did.
    -"Most of the time these fights go to the thief." -the thief tried dis-/re-engageing multiple times and the result was similar in every case. Play the thief and farm trailblazer mirages or something, then you'll do what OP asked for. Do you understand the difference between what was asked for and what you delivered/wrote about?

    7) You seem to wana nit pick my input methods for skill activation rather than talk about the actual subject.

    Yes, I totally "want to nit pick", which is why I'm responding to your posts as a whole, while you constantly dogde what I'm saying. Because your input method was clearly the main point of my posts here, ok.

    Im not going to explain everything to someone who I think is just looking for some kind of soft target. You no valid counter argument.

    No valid counter argument? I keep responding to what you write, I'm not sure what else you expect from a discussion -not only this, but literally any. Did I miss some crucial parts of your posts or lied about what happened in your video or about what you wrote? I don't think I did, but IF I did, then by all means make sure to point it out.

    You seem to want to counter the fact that thief has massive reset potential by saying, in effect, No your wrong thief is so badly under powered it couldn't possibly kill a Mirage because the thief lost. That isn't a counter argument to the fact that thieves high reset potential or that ultimately means the thief chose to fight and stay in the fight to the loss and had other options that would have let the thief escape the fight it started if it didnt wana be in that fight. PARTICULARLY, when you take into account Im running a built that is using CONFUSION for its burst meaning they had to activate skills to get hurt like they did.....

    That's by far not what I said. I said that engaging in a fight isn't choosing to lose. That running isn't winning (even moreso in pvp). That what you linked and wrote isn't an answer to what OP asked for.
    Yes, the thief used skills. Tell me how he was supposed to try to disengage without doing that.
    Also if I tried to claim that "thief is so badly underpowered it couldn't possibly kill a [whatever]", you can be sure I'd be lobbying for some teef buffs, which I'm not doing -not here and not anywhere. So that seems like a miss to me.

    It doesn't matter what I say you will continue to whine. I find it kinda funny.

    Ah, so you're back to doing... this. I didn't whine, I literally responded to everything you said. I understand you're done here, so I guess I am too. Next time you respond, try actually answering to the contents of my post.

    I never left, its really easy to hit refresh see your post and say. I wouldn't want to disappoint u. ;)

    Never said you left, but why would I suddenly expect you to answer to what I actually wrote :D

    u just didnt like the answer.

    Nah, you clearly just dodged what I wrote and still do. o/

    You go in circles and its pointless to repeat what I have said on this thread maybe 4+ times now.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    You are kinda bent on the same tangent. If you actually read my posts you would find I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    Isn't Thief like, doodoo tier now in PvP?
    Now if we are talking about WvW, Thief is undeniably strong due to the reset potential, partly because WvW allows Thieves to reset as many times as they like by going OOC.

    PvP? No such thing.
    If Thief can't pull off their burst on yu, they have to run away and at that point they lost due to losing point control.

    So your entire argument that I am trying to say anything about thief being over or under power in pvp is mute.That is, from my view, you are basically having an argument with yourself. Im just responding because you are directing it at me.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential. I think the video shows they have all the reset potencial they need to do everything I said they can do. Nuff said.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

  • NorthernRedStar.3054NorthernRedStar.3054 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    Thief is playable, but far from tier 1 now. You're far better off w/ a Revenant and side trappers.

    The main issue is how clunky every build feels now. They've gutted every non-DE build's damage, mobility and utility in one shape or form. Essentially the "soulbeast treatment", but worse.

    People who still complain about thief need to git gut.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2021

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2021

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    And where did I answer to that post? Check my initial answer and what you were answering to this whole time. What are you even talking about, lmao.

    As I said:
    you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to.
    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    And where did I answer to that post? Check my initial answer and what you were answering to this whole time. What are you even talking about, lmao.

    As I said:
    you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to.
    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399991#Comment_1399991

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2021

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    And where did I answer to that post? Check my initial answer and what you were answering to this whole time. What are you even talking about, lmao.

    As I said:
    you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to.
    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399991#Comment_1399991

    So you understand you're wrong which is why you run from what I wrote again, ok. :)

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    And where did I answer to that post? Check my initial answer and what you were answering to this whole time. What are you even talking about, lmao.

    As I said:
    you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to.
    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399991#Comment_1399991

    So you understand you're wrong which is why you run from what I wrote again, ok. :)

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399991#Comment_1399991
    Again obviously not. You are pretty kitten silly. I will also point that technically I think I should be reporting your posts for accusing me of being a lair cause that sounds allot like an insult/name and shame to me which would get them all deleted. but what ever.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    Thanks.

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    And where did I answer to that post? Check my initial answer and what you were answering to this whole time. What are you even talking about, lmao.

    As I said:
    you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to.
    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399991#Comment_1399991

    So you understand you're wrong which is why you run from what I wrote again, ok. :)

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399991#Comment_1399991
    Again obviously not. You are pretty kitten silly. I will also point that technically I think I should be reporting your posts for accusing me of being a lair cause that sounds allot like an insult/name and shame to me which would get them all deleted. but what ever.

    Buddy, you were repeatedly spamming with "smoke more crack" in place of any reasonable answer and NOW you're threatening with reports because I said you lied... when you lied?

    And while we're at you constantly dropping what I said the moment you realise you're wrong, you still didn't answer where I wrote anything like this:
    "My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential."

    You're just making up randomized accusations and hope something sticks just to drop it in the next post. Hilarious.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    I claim the video shows high reset potential which it does, it shows a thief ambushing from stealth and stealthing again before my clones can reach them over and over. In general I posted a video that shows that, pretty clearly. You can also see the thief is able to move way out of my 600-900 range each time before stealth fades and we both know it can stealth again as soon as it likes. That IS exactly what I said they can do.

    Im in full trailblazer with defensive traits so the damage the thief is doing IS significant. I have one dodge vs the 3 the DD has, I have no reveal option, my health pool and invuln are my survival not infinite resets and stealth like the DD. Therefore, Yes that IS significant damage because a few of those and the thief turns the fight. We all know it. You guys just seem like you cannot come to grips the fact that thief has high reset potential and other people manage to play it in WvW. The guy in the video lost, but he picked the fight, he could have left the fight alive (same as win) Thief has the advantage because the Mirage has no chance to kill the thief unless it decides it wants to stay around untill the Mesmer finally gets that burst in..... I dont usually keep video of my deaths so its kinda hard to post but anyone who plays wvw much gets ambushed by thieves from time to time. So they are around...

    I mean seriously: Fight starts 10min in DD is downed ~12:30 min into video. The thief attacks over and over with my standing waiting to see when it will attack from stealth next for 2.5 minutes and you don't want to agree with me that Thief has allot of reset potential in WvW? That Im a liar? give me a break....

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2021

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    I claim the video shows high reset potential which it does, it shows a thief ambushing from stealth and stealthing again before my clones can reach them over and over. In general I posted a video that shows that, pretty clearly. You can also see the thief is able to move way out of my 600-900 range each time before stealth fades and we both know it can stealth again as soon as it likes. That IS exactly what I said they can do.

    That's not the only thing you wrote. I already explained it, try understanding what you read... and what you write, because apparently you don't. He even told you again what was false about what you wrote and somehow you still try to deny it.

    That's not all I said in the response you quoted either.

    Yes, it's not. Which is why I commented on parts that are false. Now you try to tell me it means I disagree with everything you said based on what? On parts I didn't even talk about?

    Its all addressed.

    No, it's not. You keep repeating the same thing without addressing what I actually wrote, at the same time pretending I wrote things that I clearly didn't.
    And just like that you provide another proof of what I just said:

    You seem to have wanted to make what I said into me saying thief is OP which I never did.

    Tell me where exactly I wrote anything like that. When I commented on what you wrote, I meant exactly what I said. Stop making up things and pretending they're facts. Quote/link where I wrote that or stop pretending I've said something that I didn't. :sleeping:

    I posted and said I think Thief works because it has high reset and that this high reset gives it what another person called agency. This gives the Thief the option to chose then and how to engage in fights most of the time and the option to leave fights alive most of the time. This is a pretty good advantage if you ask me. That is and was the point of my comments other than comments trying to refute accusations made by you and others which I feel are false or incorrect. You dont have to agree but you should go calling me a liar because you dont agree,

    I already told you multiple times what was false in your post and now so did UNOwen.You keep dodging facts. If that's not intentional, go re-read with understanding I guess.

  • Jables.4659Jables.4659 Member ✭✭✭

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    Also in general I will repeat. I think using a combination of 1-0 and the rest of your keys with one hand while you also click skills with the mouse is required to function. Its some serious nit picking, petty, kitten to bring it up and an obvious distraction from the actual topic.

    Lmao. This is a dude who talks kitten about other people's knowledge of the game and then gets a mod to remove their posts when his argument fails. All that, and he's a clicker hahaha.

  • Fipmip.7219Fipmip.7219 Member ✭✭✭

    To keep fighting games fun, characters should usually be fun to play against as well as play as. Idk why this thief is doing so little damage, but it seems to me like he's in a spot where he can only dent the player but he can also reset indefinitely. From just this video, it seems to me like thief needs a lot of work to give them more damage but less reset potential, i.e. buffs and nerfs in a number of places.

  • Terrorhuz.4695Terrorhuz.4695 Member ✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    Bruh 8k burst from stealth on full trailblazer is not significant damage? The thief was a pepega incapable of keeping up the pressure nor stealing, but the damage is there.

  • Moradorin.6217Moradorin.6217 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2021

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    Bruh 8k burst from stealth on full trailblazer is not significant damage? The thief was a pepega incapable of keeping up the pressure nor stealing, but the damage is there.

    exactly and the thief has all the control in deciding if it wasnts to keep fighting or not too.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    Bruh 8k burst from stealth on full trailblazer is not significant damage? The thief was a pepega incapable of keeping up the pressure nor stealing, but the damage is there.

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    Bruh 8k burst from stealth on full trailblazer is not significant damage? The thief was a pepega incapable of keeping up the pressure nor stealing, but the damage is there.

    That wasnt 8k burst from stealth. That was 8k damage over 3 seconds in which the thief could freely attack as the Mesmer was too slow to do literally anything, including dodging. And yeah, 8k damage over 3 seconds of free attacks is not very significant. Burn Guardian would've killed him. Soulbeast dropped him to 30% hp at most. Holosmith probably somewhere inbetween. Meanwhile the thief did about a third of their health. Yeah, not great is it? Especially since thieves damage is entirely frontloaded, and their DPS is non-existent.

  • Terrorhuz.4695Terrorhuz.4695 Member ✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    Bruh 8k burst from stealth on full trailblazer is not significant damage? The thief was a pepega incapable of keeping up the pressure nor stealing, but the damage is there.

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    Bruh 8k burst from stealth on full trailblazer is not significant damage? The thief was a pepega incapable of keeping up the pressure nor stealing, but the damage is there.

    That wasnt 8k burst from stealth. That was 8k damage over 3 seconds in which the thief could freely attack as the Mesmer was too slow to do literally anything, including dodging. And yeah, 8k damage over 3 seconds of free attacks is not very significant. Burn Guardian would've killed him. Soulbeast dropped him to 30% hp at most. Holosmith probably somewhere inbetween. Meanwhile the thief did about a third of their health. Yeah, not great is it? Especially since thieves damage is entirely frontloaded, and their DPS is non-existent.

    ITT we gonna act as if permastealthing + blinds + lots of dodges didn't let daredevils ('cause those are the big offenders, thieves and deadeyes can't get away with that kitten 'cause no dash to save the day) turn everything into frontload damage until someone dies.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    Bruh 8k burst from stealth on full trailblazer is not significant damage? The thief was a pepega incapable of keeping up the pressure nor stealing, but the damage is there.

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    Bruh 8k burst from stealth on full trailblazer is not significant damage? The thief was a pepega incapable of keeping up the pressure nor stealing, but the damage is there.

    That wasnt 8k burst from stealth. That was 8k damage over 3 seconds in which the thief could freely attack as the Mesmer was too slow to do literally anything, including dodging. And yeah, 8k damage over 3 seconds of free attacks is not very significant. Burn Guardian would've killed him. Soulbeast dropped him to 30% hp at most. Holosmith probably somewhere inbetween. Meanwhile the thief did about a third of their health. Yeah, not great is it? Especially since thieves damage is entirely frontloaded, and their DPS is non-existent.

    ITT we gonna act as if permastealthing + blinds + lots of dodges didn't let daredevils ('cause those are the big offenders, thieves and deadeyes can't get away with that kitten 'cause no dash to save the day) turn everything into frontload damage until someone dies.

    Wait, what is this even supposed to mean? I mean lets ignore that Daredevil has below average dodges at this point (Since its literally just 1 extra dodge in the entire fight and some vigor), or that their blinds are usually expensive and require giving up damage, what are you even saying here? That thief can make everything into a "burst", even though its clearly not a burst? I dont get it.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    Bruh 8k burst from stealth on full trailblazer is not significant damage? The thief was a pepega incapable of keeping up the pressure nor stealing, but the damage is there.

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    Bruh 8k burst from stealth on full trailblazer is not significant damage? The thief was a pepega incapable of keeping up the pressure nor stealing, but the damage is there.

    That wasnt 8k burst from stealth. That was 8k damage over 3 seconds in which the thief could freely attack as the Mesmer was too slow to do literally anything, including dodging. And yeah, 8k damage over 3 seconds of free attacks is not very significant. Burn Guardian would've killed him. Soulbeast dropped him to 30% hp at most. Holosmith probably somewhere inbetween. Meanwhile the thief did about a third of their health. Yeah, not great is it? Especially since thieves damage is entirely frontloaded, and their DPS is non-existent.

    ITT we gonna act as if permastealthing + blinds + lots of dodges didn't let daredevils ('cause those are the big offenders, thieves and deadeyes can't get away with that kitten 'cause no dash to save the day) turn everything into frontload damage until someone dies.

    Wait, what is this even supposed to mean? I mean lets ignore that Daredevil has below average dodges at this point (Since its literally just 1 extra dodge in the entire fight and some vigor), or that their blinds are usually expensive and require giving up damage, what are you even saying here? That thief can make everything into a "burst", even though its clearly not a burst? I dont get it.

    I mean... I wouldn't say it has below average dodges. But other than that, yeah. People like to pretend thief doesn't use anything for whatever they want to do: apparently there's no cd, no resources, everythings up all the time and the resource system totally doesn't "work against itself" in certain cituations (hi, 8ini bow 5).

    And lets not forget about the recent exchange in this thread:
    "thief killed himself because he used skills while affected by confusion!"
    ...but how was he supposed to stealth/disengage without using skills?
    *aaaaaaaaand he stopped answering, what a surprise * :sleeping:

    Ok then. I feel this is also EXACTLY the reason why OP asks for the video of those complainers. To see they actually understand what they're talking about, because so many just don't. And that's also the very reason I'm calling out moradorin on his bullkitten, to which instead of addressing what I wrote, he keeps trying to tell me I imply something he didn't explicitly wrote. And when asked when I wrote it... he constantly drop the questions, because he has nothing to answer.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    Bruh 8k burst from stealth on full trailblazer is not significant damage? The thief was a pepega incapable of keeping up the pressure nor stealing, but the damage is there.

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    Bruh 8k burst from stealth on full trailblazer is not significant damage? The thief was a pepega incapable of keeping up the pressure nor stealing, but the damage is there.

    That wasnt 8k burst from stealth. That was 8k damage over 3 seconds in which the thief could freely attack as the Mesmer was too slow to do literally anything, including dodging. And yeah, 8k damage over 3 seconds of free attacks is not very significant. Burn Guardian would've killed him. Soulbeast dropped him to 30% hp at most. Holosmith probably somewhere inbetween. Meanwhile the thief did about a third of their health. Yeah, not great is it? Especially since thieves damage is entirely frontloaded, and their DPS is non-existent.

    ITT we gonna act as if permastealthing + blinds + lots of dodges didn't let daredevils ('cause those are the big offenders, thieves and deadeyes can't get away with that kitten 'cause no dash to save the day) turn everything into frontload damage until someone dies.

    Wait, what is this even supposed to mean? I mean lets ignore that Daredevil has below average dodges at this point (Since its literally just 1 extra dodge in the entire fight and some vigor), or that their blinds are usually expensive and require giving up damage, what are you even saying here? That thief can make everything into a "burst", even though its clearly not a burst? I dont get it.

    I mean... I wouldn't say it has below average dodges. But other than that, yeah. People like to pretend thief doesn't use anything for whatever they want to do: apparently there's no cd, no resources, everythings up all the time and the resource system totally doesn't "work against itself" in certain cituations (hi, 8ini bow 5).

    The build as its used does, actually. The healing skill is HiS and the elite skill usually basilisk, while none of the utilities provide dodges either. And neither does D/P as a whole. So yeah, right now the build has the normal dodges, + 1 over the entire fight. Any class that has at least one dodge on a cooldown outperforms it, and a lot of classes do that.

    And lets not forget about the recent exchange in this thread:
    "thief killed himself because he used skills while affected by confusion!"
    ...but how was he supposed to stealth without using skills?
    *aaaaaaaaand he stopped answering, what a surprise :sleeping: *

    Okey then. I feel this is also EXACTLY the reason why OP asks for the video of those complainers. To see they actually understand what they're talking about, because so many just don't. And that's also the very reason why I'm calling out moradorin on his bullkitten.

    Basically.

  • Terrorhuz.4695Terrorhuz.4695 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2021

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    Bruh 8k burst from stealth on full trailblazer is not significant damage? The thief was a pepega incapable of keeping up the pressure nor stealing, but the damage is there.

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    Bruh 8k burst from stealth on full trailblazer is not significant damage? The thief was a pepega incapable of keeping up the pressure nor stealing, but the damage is there.

    That wasnt 8k burst from stealth. That was 8k damage over 3 seconds in which the thief could freely attack as the Mesmer was too slow to do literally anything, including dodging. And yeah, 8k damage over 3 seconds of free attacks is not very significant. Burn Guardian would've killed him. Soulbeast dropped him to 30% hp at most. Holosmith probably somewhere inbetween. Meanwhile the thief did about a third of their health. Yeah, not great is it? Especially since thieves damage is entirely frontloaded, and their DPS is non-existent.

    ITT we gonna act as if permastealthing + blinds + lots of dodges didn't let daredevils ('cause those are the big offenders, thieves and deadeyes can't get away with that kitten 'cause no dash to save the day) turn everything into frontload damage until someone dies.

    Wait, what is this even supposed to mean? I mean lets ignore that Daredevil has below average dodges at this point (Since its literally just 1 extra dodge in the entire fight and some vigor), or that their blinds are usually expensive and require giving up damage, what are you even saying here? That thief can make everything into a "burst", even though its clearly not a burst? I dont get it.

    I mean... it's 3 dodges then it's vigor then it's another half a dodge on signet then there's the healing skill -IDK why you wouldn't want to run it, since it's there and it's plenty viable- then there's all the blind+stealth to cover while you wait if you play d\p; if you play s\d you have no blind, but you get even more spammable evades. Then you say you leave damage to get blind even though shadowshot is the heavy hitter of d\p and hits a light armor for 4.5k? Are we even talking about the same class? I'm not saying thief can turn everything into a burst, I'm saying thief has plenty of ways to stay alive and repeatedly land bursts until someone dies.

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    Bruh 8k burst from stealth on full trailblazer is not significant damage? The thief was a pepega incapable of keeping up the pressure nor stealing, but the damage is there.

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Moradorin.6217 said:
    In what way did I lie about what happens in the video? can you quote the "lie"? Mhmm...

    Already did, but you were too busy spamming with "smoking crack".
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1399765/#Comment_1399765

    I responded to the thread to respond to Jasai's post when they said:

    lmao, you have some serious problems with keeping up with the context of messages you're answering to. You were not answering to Jasai(?) there (which I also already told you on this or last page).
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396596/#Comment_1396596

    Maybe you really aren't intentionally dodging what I write, maybe you actually don't understand what you read, who knows.

    My video is wvw gameplay you seem to want to pretend that thief is unused in wvw and lacks reset potential.

    ...and when exactly did I write anything like that? :D

    Maybe u linked the wrong comments? cause no those links dont demonstrate what u claim as usual...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1396689#Comment_1396689

    They do actually. You say clones dont hit him, he points out that they do. You say you took significant damage, he points out you didnt. In general you posted a video showing the opposite of what you claimed it showed, got called out on it, and just doubled down on it. While being rather rude for someone who is wrong, too.

    Bruh 8k burst from stealth on full trailblazer is not significant damage? The thief was a pepega incapable of keeping up the pressure nor stealing, but the damage is there.

    That wasnt 8k burst from stealth. That was 8k damage over 3 seconds in which the thief could freely attack as the Mesmer was too slow to do literally anything, including dodging. And yeah, 8k damage over 3 seconds of free attacks is not very significant. Burn Guardian would've killed him. Soulbeast dropped him to 30% hp at most. Holosmith probably somewhere inbetween. Meanwhile the thief did about a third of their health. Yeah, not great is it? Especially since thieves damage is entirely frontloaded, and their DPS is non-existent.

    ITT we gonna act as if permastealthing + blinds + lots of dodges didn't let daredevils ('cause those are the big offenders, thieves and deadeyes can't get away with that kitten 'cause no dash to save the day) turn everything into frontload damage until someone dies.

    Wait, what is this even supposed to mean? I mean lets ignore that Daredevil has below average dodges at this point (Since its literally just 1 extra dodge in the entire fight and some vigor), or that their blinds are usually expensive and require giving up damage, what are you even saying here? That thief can make everything into a "burst", even though its clearly not a burst? I dont get it.

    I mean... it's 3 dodges then it's vigor then it's another half a dodge on signet then there's the healing skill -IDK why you wouldn't want to run it, since it's there and it's plenty viable- then there's all the blind+stealth to cover while you wait if you play d\p; if you play s\d you have no blind, but you get even more spammable evades. Then you say you leave damage to get blind even though shadowshot is the heavy hitter of d\p and hits a light armor for 4.5k? Are we even talking about the same class? I'm not saying thief can turn everything into a burst, I'm saying thief has plenty of ways to stay alive and repeatedly land bursts until someone dies.

    Its 1 extra dodge per fight. Thats what 3 dodges does. Yes, there is vigor. Thief doesnt have that much of it, and other classes also have vigor. The signet is half a dodge, thats not great. The healing skill used is HiS. Neither Withdraw nor whatever the Daredevil one was called are used, so no dodges there. Trying to stealth in-combat for defense as a thief means the enemy bursts you and kills you. Shadowshot is not a heavy hitter and it doesnt hit anywhere close to 4.5k (4.5k is what backstab hits for. Shadowshot hits around 3k), and thats for 5 initiative, which is a lot. And no, thief doesnt. If thief had those, it wouldnt be the by far worst class in 2v2 and 3v3. What thief has is the ability to run around and away. Good for +1ing. Not so good for even fights.

  • Wanna know why no one has provided a video yet? Cause i've been deleting every single thief i've come across this past week, so the only footage anyone can have so far is being insta-eliminated by hilarious 4-8k reaper autos.

  • Bear.9568Bear.9568 Member ✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:
    Wanna know why no one has provided a video yet? Cause i've been deleting every single thief i've come across this past week, so the only footage anyone can have so far is being insta-eliminated by hilarious 4-8k reaper autos.

    Exactly, 2-3 autos and thief dead....... but thief much too op, so scare, much stealth, moar nerf needed.

  • Terrorhuz.4695Terrorhuz.4695 Member ✭✭✭

    @UNOwen.7132 said:
    Shadowshot is not a heavy hitter and it doesnt hit anywhere close to 4.5k (4.5k is what backstab hits for.)

    Whatever thief



  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2021

    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:

    @UNOwen.7132 said:
    Shadowshot is not a heavy hitter and it doesnt hit anywhere close to 4.5k (4.5k is what backstab hits for.)

    Whatever thief



    Woooo we paintin' now bois xd




    @Terrorhuz.4695 said:
    Bruh 8k burst from stealth on full trailblazer is not significant damage? The thief was a pepega incapable of keeping up the pressure nor stealing, but the damage is there.

    "whatever mesmer"