The only fix spvp will ever need! — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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The only fix spvp will ever need!

Blake.8476Blake.8476 Member ✭✭

My suggestion is to remove damage from conditions and instead make them like utilities, For example (poison can reduce healing but not damage you, burning applies vulnerability, bleeding makes you lose endurance, torment makes you see clones, confusion makes your weapon abilities swap places etc) conditions are currently ticking away your health at an alarming rate (burning condition especially) Then there is the heaIth and toughness perk that condi builds gain that power builds do not get as much of, For instance power dragonhunter has 11k-16khp where a condi dragonhunter has 21k-25k. I do understand that making this change would be a very big rework of amulets, runes, sigil's, classes and weapons. but maybe make an extra game mode (condition free matches/power builds only) like an event... and test it, Get response from the community and decide whether to change for good or not. Trust me SPVP will become balanced and if not then you tried at least without impacting the current system, People complain about condi builds (revnant, mirage, necro) Then arenanet nerfs it and a new condi build is made, The process repeats itself, Take care and thank you for your consideration. Guild Wars 2 for life!

Comments

  • @Ziggityzog.7389 said:
    Conditions would be great tif they were just that. Conditions.
    Yes conditions applied and tick damage of them far outway the amount of cleansing options unless every match has a proper healer, but 99% of spvp players dont play healer.
    What really ruined things are when confusion and torment started to do damage even when not activated.

    What do you mean by "when not activated"?

  • @Blake.8476 said:

    @Ziggityzog.7389 said:
    Conditions would be great tif they were just that. Conditions.
    Yes conditions applied and tick damage of them far outway the amount of cleansing options unless every match has a proper healer, but 99% of spvp players dont play healer.
    What really ruined things are when confusion and torment started to do damage even when not activated.

    What do you mean by "when not activated"?

    @Ziggityzog.7389 said:

    @Blake.8476 said:

    @Ziggityzog.7389 said:
    Conditions would be great tif they were just that. Conditions.
    Yes conditions applied and tick damage of them far outway the amount of cleansing options unless every match has a proper healer, but 99% of spvp players dont play healer.
    What really ruined things are when confusion and torment started to do damage even when not activated.

    What do you mean by "when not activated"?

    When torment does damage while standing still or confusion does damage when not casting a skill.

    ah yes i agree that is bad! just as bad as the binding roots of a druid, cleanse the immobilize and it will just reapply unless you destroy it, which by then you ate 50 conditions already

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ziggityzog.7389 said:

    @Blake.8476 said:

    @Ziggityzog.7389 said:
    Conditions would be great tif they were just that. Conditions.
    Yes conditions applied and tick damage of them far outway the amount of cleansing options unless every match has a proper healer, but 99% of spvp players dont play healer.
    What really ruined things are when confusion and torment started to do damage even when not activated.

    What do you mean by "when not activated"?

    When torment does damage while standing still or confusion does damage when not casting a skill.

    Confusion damage is very negligible when not using skills.

    Torment damage is too much somehow? If anything, it's actually the most balanced condition because of that, if it did no damage then nobody would play anything with Torment, condition builds have bad power damage already and you being able to sit in there taking all the torment makes no sense, even if you had to move for avoiding a different aoe of conditions, the damage you'll take is insignificant and I doubt people wants to see Torment with Confusion levels of damage in exchanging of no damage at all for standing.

    Willing to help with anything Revenant related.

  • @Shao.7236 said:

    @Ziggityzog.7389 said:

    @Blake.8476 said:

    @Ziggityzog.7389 said:
    Conditions would be great tif they were just that. Conditions.
    Yes conditions applied and tick damage of them far outway the amount of cleansing options unless every match has a proper healer, but 99% of spvp players dont play healer.
    What really ruined things are when confusion and torment started to do damage even when not activated.

    What do you mean by "when not activated"?

    When torment does damage while standing still or confusion does damage when not casting a skill.

    Confusion damage is very negligible when not using skills.

    Torment damage is too much somehow? If anything, it's actually the most balanced condition because of that, if it did no damage then nobody would play anything with Torment, condition builds have bad power damage already and you being able to sit in there taking all the torment makes no sense, even if you had to move for avoiding a different aoe of conditions, the damage you'll take is insignificant and I doubt people wants to see Torment with Confusion levels of damage in exchanging of no damage at all for standing.

    Still though i think if conditions didnt do damage but instead just a control affect the game would be a lot better and there would be almost nobody complaining everyday about the balance in pvp, there are still many options due to traits even if conditions do no damage and with a little tweaking all classes can play power with conditions as a means of slowing, their opponent or making them use a skill etc, at the current state of pvp almost always the only thing to do vs a condi bunker is run away or eccept death, that is not a skillbased fight and it makes people want to quit.

  • @Clipzy.9483 said:
    They wanted conditions to do damage to add more diversity to build types. The issue is that the damage for condis is too high and scales too well with defensive builds.

    Yes i can understand that the conditions add diversity and thats why i am not saying to remove them completely but rather remove the damage it deals, they can rather add more diversity to the already existing power traits/amulets and runes.

  • @Peter.3901 said:
    I mean, the only issue with condition is called guardian burn, and the fault is not even the condition exactly.

    Well i agree that guardian has an issue and that is the fact that before the 9 stacks of burns set in from torch 4 you already take a burst damage kind of like how you would from a power build?

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    are there even more then 4 actually good condi builds? whenever conditions are good its always " nerf all conditions ". Whenever power build is good its always " l2p " " just dodge" or " nerf this 1 specific thing leave the reast of the things alooone "
    Imagine if I made posts that Lich form is OP, therefore we need to nerf all power damage to the ground!
    And you know what? if you nef conditions what stops people from stacking the kitten out of toughness, protection, weakness and never dying ?
    then you will be making another posts " nerf the bunkers they OP OP " and remove toughness and remove protection and remove this and that and it will never end.

    instead of slowly removing/changing small things and never achieving balance im suggesting a big change that can be tested beforehand that will make a better gaming experience for all, I completely disagree when you say only 4 good condi builds, and no im not here because i want everything nerfed as you are implying, I also have no issue with bunkers (except condi bunkers) if you look at my profile you will see this is the only post i have, And its the only thing that is the issue with spvp and dont get me wrong i play core burn guard and condi soulbeast, Not very fun to watch 3 players die while i run away because its boring,There is no skill involved in any condi build, Other games function perfectly with only power., crit chance and crit damage... Condition damage does not define guild wars 2 pvp so it can also function perfectly without it and then maybe guild wars 2 will have some world tournaments.

  • melandru.3876melandru.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ziggityzog.7389 said:

    @Blake.8476 said:

    @Ziggityzog.7389 said:
    Conditions would be great tif they were just that. Conditions.
    Yes conditions applied and tick damage of them far outway the amount of cleansing options unless every match has a proper healer, but 99% of spvp players dont play healer.
    What really ruined things are when confusion and torment started to do damage even when not activated.

    What do you mean by "when not activated"?

    When torment does damage while standing still or confusion does damage when not casting a skill.

    not triggered confusion does close to no damage
    torment is a different story

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 29, 2020

    @Blake.8476 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    are there even more then 4 actually good condi builds? whenever conditions are good its always " nerf all conditions ". Whenever power build is good its always " l2p " " just dodge" or " nerf this 1 specific thing leave the reast of the things alooone "
    Imagine if I made posts that Lich form is OP, therefore we need to nerf all power damage to the ground!
    And you know what? if you nef conditions what stops people from stacking the kitten out of toughness, protection, weakness and never dying ?
    then you will be making another posts " nerf the bunkers they OP OP " and remove toughness and remove protection and remove this and that and it will never end.

    instead of slowly removing/changing small things and never achieving balance im suggesting a big change that can be tested beforehand that will make a better gaming experience for all, I completely disagree when you say only 4 good condi builds, and no im not here because i want everything nerfed as you are implying, I also have no issue with bunkers (except condi bunkers) if you look at my profile you will see this is the only post i have, And its the only thing that is the issue with spvp and dont get me wrong i play core burn guard and condi soulbeast, Not very fun to watch 3 players die while i run away because its boring,There is no skill involved in any condi build, Other games function perfectly with only power., crit chance and crit damage... Condition damage does not define guild wars 2 pvp so it can also function perfectly without it and then maybe guild wars 2 will have some world tournaments.

    anet cant and dont test things, EVER. In feb patch they removed a trait from mesmer but it was still there, dont tell me anyone have tested that.
    After using the trait once I instantly knew it was bugged.
    And btw, fast removing things has led us where we are due to said february patch, And nerfing conditions will lead to more bunkers as I said.
    For every brainless condi build there is another brainless power build, lets not pretend that condi soulbeast is somehow easier to play the sic-em soulbeast.
    For every burn guard you have nades holo. For every condi necro you have d/p thief.
    Not all condition builds are easy to play and not all power builds are hard to play.
    If you want hard to play condi build take cmesmer, fight competent people and come back to me. Come back and tell me how easy it is to burst people and how often your burst doesnt do anything. How often you get hit by 1 skill and have to disengage since skill-full holo landed 10k barrage or how often your burst gets denied by random aoe you have to account for, or how often your 30s burst healed enemy herald due to instant healing skill, or how often quickness reaper liched you in under 1,5s.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If anet had the resources to rebalance the inevitable mess resulting from a condition rework, they would also have the resources to balance the current state of the game.

  • @Ziggityzog.7389 said:

    @Blake.8476 said:

    @Ziggityzog.7389 said:
    Conditions would be great tif they were just that. Conditions.
    Yes conditions applied and tick damage of them far outway the amount of cleansing options unless every match has a proper healer, but 99% of spvp players dont play healer.
    What really ruined things are when confusion and torment started to do damage even when not activated.

    What do you mean by "when not activated"?

    When torment does damage while standing still or confusion does damage when not casting a skill.

    Technically speaking confusion is this way, the damage ticks on it are ridiculously low.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blake.8476 said:
    My suggestion is to remove damage from conditions and instead make them like utilities, For example (poison can reduce healing but not damage you, burning applies vulnerability, bleeding makes you lose endurance, torment makes you see clones, confusion makes your weapon abilities swap places etc) conditions are currently ticking away your health at an alarming rate (burning condition especially) Then there is the heaIth and toughness perk that condi builds gain that power builds do not get as much of, For instance power dragonhunter has 11k-16khp where a condi dragonhunter has 21k-25k. I do understand that making this change would be a very big rework of amulets, runes, sigil's, classes and weapons. but maybe make an extra game mode (condition free matches/power builds only) like an event... and test it, Get response from the community and decide whether to change for good or not. Trust me SPVP will become balanced and if not then you tried at least without impacting the current system, People complain about condi builds (revnant, mirage, necro) Then arenanet nerfs it and a new condi build is made, The process repeats itself, Take care and thank you for your consideration. Guild Wars 2 for life!

    How would this make PvP balanced? I cant even imagine this change working out. Even modified a bit here and there, it's just way out there.
    Example: condi core necromancer. It does basicly no power damage. You nullify its offense through conditions, compensate by doubling its health... and you get a 100K health monster(shroud and HP combined) that weakens, cripples and fears you, but does absolutely no damage. What about this would be fun or balanced?

    Not to mention this would break PvE aswell.

    If you want changes this radical in an 8 year old game, you're better off making a new one.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Clipzy.9483 said:
    They wanted conditions to do damage to add more diversity to build types. The issue is that the damage for condis is too high and scales too well with defensive builds.

    The issue is that untyped damage already existed and every class used it.

  • Blake.8476Blake.8476 Member ✭✭

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Blake.8476 said:
    My suggestion is to remove damage from conditions and instead make them like utilities, For example (poison can reduce healing but not damage you, burning applies vulnerability, bleeding makes you lose endurance, torment makes you see clones, confusion makes your weapon abilities swap places etc) conditions are currently ticking away your health at an alarming rate (burning condition especially) Then there is the heaIth and toughness perk that condi builds gain that power builds do not get as much of, For instance power dragonhunter has 11k-16khp where a condi dragonhunter has 21k-25k. I do understand that making this change would be a very big rework of amulets, runes, sigil's, classes and weapons. but maybe make an extra game mode (condition free matches/power builds only) like an event... and test it, Get response from the community and decide whether to change for good or not. Trust me SPVP will become balanced and if not then you tried at least without impacting the current system, People complain about condi builds (revnant, mirage, necro) Then arenanet nerfs it and a new condi build is made, The process repeats itself, Take care and thank you for your consideration. Guild Wars 2 for life!

    How would this make PvP balanced? I cant even imagine this change working out. Even modified a bit here and there, it's just way out there.
    Example: condi core necromancer. It does basicly no power damage. You nullify its offense through conditions, compensate by doubling its health... and you get a 100K health monster(shroud and HP combined) that weakens, cripples and fears you, but does absolutely no damage. What about this would be fun or balanced?

    Not to mention this would break PvE aswell.

    If you want changes this radical in an 8 year old game, you're better off making a new one.

    This change im suggesting is ONLY for SPVP not Pve, and core necro does a ton of power damage!
    i played power core necro for a long time and even got to plat 2 with it...
    and its never too late for a change (it would bring new life and a different outlook to the game which in turn would potentially lure players back that have quit because of this)

  • Blake.8476Blake.8476 Member ✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:
    If anet had the resources to rebalance the inevitable mess resulting from a condition rework, they would also have the resources to balance the current state of the game.

    There is not so much wrong with the state of the game, its a great game but however the spvp part of it is a mess

  • Blake.8476Blake.8476 Member ✭✭

    @Grimjack.8130 said:
    me potato me want conditions removed me gold player

    So you agree it needs to be removed, Thank you for your input!

  • Blake.8476Blake.8476 Member ✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Blake.8476 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    are there even more then 4 actually good condi builds? whenever conditions are good its always " nerf all conditions ". Whenever power build is good its always " l2p " " just dodge" or " nerf this 1 specific thing leave the reast of the things alooone "
    Imagine if I made posts that Lich form is OP, therefore we need to nerf all power damage to the ground!
    And you know what? if you nef conditions what stops people from stacking the kitten out of toughness, protection, weakness and never dying ?
    then you will be making another posts " nerf the bunkers they OP OP " and remove toughness and remove protection and remove this and that and it will never end.

    instead of slowly removing/changing small things and never achieving balance im suggesting a big change that can be tested beforehand that will make a better gaming experience for all, I completely disagree when you say only 4 good condi builds, and no im not here because i want everything nerfed as you are implying, I also have no issue with bunkers (except condi bunkers) if you look at my profile you will see this is the only post i have, And its the only thing that is the issue with spvp and dont get me wrong i play core burn guard and condi soulbeast, Not very fun to watch 3 players die while i run away because its boring,There is no skill involved in any condi build, Other games function perfectly with only power., crit chance and crit damage... Condition damage does not define guild wars 2 pvp so it can also function perfectly without it and then maybe guild wars 2 will have some world tournaments.

    anet cant and dont test things, EVER. In feb patch they removed a trait from mesmer but it was still there, dont tell me anyone have tested that.
    After using the trait once I instantly knew it was bugged.
    And btw, fast removing things has led us where we are due to said february patch, And nerfing conditions will lead to more bunkers as I said.
    For every brainless condi build there is another brainless power build, lets not pretend that condi soulbeast is somehow easier to play the sic-em soulbeast.
    For every burn guard you have nades holo. For every condi necro you have d/p thief.
    Not all condition builds are easy to play and not all power builds are hard to play.
    If you want hard to play condi build take cmesmer, fight competent people and come back to me. Come back and tell me how easy it is to burst people and how often your burst doesnt do anything. How often you get hit by 1 skill and have to disengage since skill-full holo landed 10k barrage or how often your burst gets denied by random aoe you have to account for, or how often your 30s burst healed enemy herald due to instant healing skill, or how often quickness reaper liched you in under 1,5s.

    Yes i agree that i have not seen anet test things beforehand really, except for the 3v3, they DID test that as beta and so can they test it too with what i am suggesting, Can even maybe make it a third option besides unranked and ranked
    and i know that every class has its counter but then there are those (revnant and now the latest condi minion scourge) that absolutely abuse condi, Its ridiculous how many conditions they can stack vs how many you can clear, Making my 3 utility slots useless because i am forced to run 3 condi cleanses

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blake.8476 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Blake.8476 said:
    My suggestion is to remove damage from conditions and instead make them like utilities, For example (poison can reduce healing but not damage you, burning applies vulnerability, bleeding makes you lose endurance, torment makes you see clones, confusion makes your weapon abilities swap places etc) conditions are currently ticking away your health at an alarming rate (burning condition especially) Then there is the heaIth and toughness perk that condi builds gain that power builds do not get as much of, For instance power dragonhunter has 11k-16khp where a condi dragonhunter has 21k-25k. I do understand that making this change would be a very big rework of amulets, runes, sigil's, classes and weapons. but maybe make an extra game mode (condition free matches/power builds only) like an event... and test it, Get response from the community and decide whether to change for good or not. Trust me SPVP will become balanced and if not then you tried at least without impacting the current system, People complain about condi builds (revnant, mirage, necro) Then arenanet nerfs it and a new condi build is made, The process repeats itself, Take care and thank you for your consideration. Guild Wars 2 for life!

    How would this make PvP balanced? I cant even imagine this change working out. Even modified a bit here and there, it's just way out there.
    Example: condi core necromancer. It does basicly no power damage. You nullify its offense through conditions, compensate by doubling its health... and you get a 100K health monster(shroud and HP combined) that weakens, cripples and fears you, but does absolutely no damage. What about this would be fun or balanced?

    Not to mention this would break PvE aswell.

    If you want changes this radical in an 8 year old game, you're better off making a new one.

    This change im suggesting is ONLY for SPVP not Pve, and core necro does a ton of power damage!
    i played power core necro for a long time and even got to plat 2 with it...
    and its never too late for a change (it would bring new life and a different outlook to the game which in turn would potentially lure players back that have quit because of this)

    PvP and PvE can have different balance, but they cannot have a different design. If you bleed someone/something, the same code calculates whats happening to your target in all gamemodes. So you either apply a design change to all gamemodes, or none of them.

  • Blake.8476Blake.8476 Member ✭✭

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Blake.8476 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Blake.8476 said:
    My suggestion is to remove damage from conditions and instead make them like utilities, For example (poison can reduce healing but not damage you, burning applies vulnerability, bleeding makes you lose endurance, torment makes you see clones, confusion makes your weapon abilities swap places etc) conditions are currently ticking away your health at an alarming rate (burning condition especially) Then there is the heaIth and toughness perk that condi builds gain that power builds do not get as much of, For instance power dragonhunter has 11k-16khp where a condi dragonhunter has 21k-25k. I do understand that making this change would be a very big rework of amulets, runes, sigil's, classes and weapons. but maybe make an extra game mode (condition free matches/power builds only) like an event... and test it, Get response from the community and decide whether to change for good or not. Trust me SPVP will become balanced and if not then you tried at least without impacting the current system, People complain about condi builds (revnant, mirage, necro) Then arenanet nerfs it and a new condi build is made, The process repeats itself, Take care and thank you for your consideration. Guild Wars 2 for life!

    How would this make PvP balanced? I cant even imagine this change working out. Even modified a bit here and there, it's just way out there.
    Example: condi core necromancer. It does basicly no power damage. You nullify its offense through conditions, compensate by doubling its health... and you get a 100K health monster(shroud and HP combined) that weakens, cripples and fears you, but does absolutely no damage. What about this would be fun or balanced?

    Not to mention this would break PvE aswell.

    If you want changes this radical in an 8 year old game, you're better off making a new one.

    This change im suggesting is ONLY for SPVP not Pve, and core necro does a ton of power damage!
    i played power core necro for a long time and even got to plat 2 with it...
    and its never too late for a change (it would bring new life and a different outlook to the game which in turn would potentially lure players back that have quit because of this)

    PvP and PvE can have different balance, but they cannot have a different design. If you bleed someone/something, the same code calculates whats happening to your target in all gamemodes. So you either apply a design change to all gamemodes, or none of them.

    This is not true, Ever read your abilities? Some of them clearly say's (this skill is unique per game mode.) and thus it can be different from one another.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blake.8476 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Blake.8476 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Blake.8476 said:
    My suggestion is to remove damage from conditions and instead make them like utilities, For example (poison can reduce healing but not damage you, burning applies vulnerability, bleeding makes you lose endurance, torment makes you see clones, confusion makes your weapon abilities swap places etc) conditions are currently ticking away your health at an alarming rate (burning condition especially) Then there is the heaIth and toughness perk that condi builds gain that power builds do not get as much of, For instance power dragonhunter has 11k-16khp where a condi dragonhunter has 21k-25k. I do understand that making this change would be a very big rework of amulets, runes, sigil's, classes and weapons. but maybe make an extra game mode (condition free matches/power builds only) like an event... and test it, Get response from the community and decide whether to change for good or not. Trust me SPVP will become balanced and if not then you tried at least without impacting the current system, People complain about condi builds (revnant, mirage, necro) Then arenanet nerfs it and a new condi build is made, The process repeats itself, Take care and thank you for your consideration. Guild Wars 2 for life!

    How would this make PvP balanced? I cant even imagine this change working out. Even modified a bit here and there, it's just way out there.
    Example: condi core necromancer. It does basicly no power damage. You nullify its offense through conditions, compensate by doubling its health... and you get a 100K health monster(shroud and HP combined) that weakens, cripples and fears you, but does absolutely no damage. What about this would be fun or balanced?

    Not to mention this would break PvE aswell.

    If you want changes this radical in an 8 year old game, you're better off making a new one.

    This change im suggesting is ONLY for SPVP not Pve, and core necro does a ton of power damage!
    i played power core necro for a long time and even got to plat 2 with it...
    and its never too late for a change (it would bring new life and a different outlook to the game which in turn would potentially lure players back that have quit because of this)

    PvP and PvE can have different balance, but they cannot have a different design. If you bleed someone/something, the same code calculates whats happening to your target in all gamemodes. So you either apply a design change to all gamemodes, or none of them.

    This is not true, Ever read your abilities? Some of them clearly say's (this skill is unique per game mode.) and thus it can be different from one another.

    I used the words balance and design on purpose. Have you ever read those abilities? All they differ in are numerical values like cooldown, duration etc. Show me one skill that has a different DESIGN! Exactly, there is none.

    Also saying that core necro does a lot of power damage doesn't really negate the fact that CONDI core necro doesn't. And it was just one example, all classes have builds which are exclusively focused on dealing damage through conditions. Weaponsets, entire traitlines, amulets, sigils, runes... condition damage is half of the game dude. You can't just remove it. Even if I granted you step one, which would be the techical problems of having different DESIGNS of the same skill, you're still left with a combat system thats designed around the duality of power and condition damage. You can't just erase condition damage from that system and expect it to work.

    You are literally this meme with your suggestion: "Hmm one of my legs hurt, I guess I could walk better if I just CUT IT OFF."

  • Murdock.6547Murdock.6547 Member ✭✭✭

    Holy smokes. I haven't had a laugh this good in a while!
    Excellent troll post, friend. You had me going for a second.

  • Blake.8476Blake.8476 Member ✭✭

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Blake.8476 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Blake.8476 said:

    @Bazsi.2734 said:

    @Blake.8476 said:
    My suggestion is to remove damage from conditions and instead make them like utilities, For example (poison can reduce healing but not damage you, burning applies vulnerability, bleeding makes you lose endurance, torment makes you see clones, confusion makes your weapon abilities swap places etc) conditions are currently ticking away your health at an alarming rate (burning condition especially) Then there is the heaIth and toughness perk that condi builds gain that power builds do not get as much of, For instance power dragonhunter has 11k-16khp where a condi dragonhunter has 21k-25k. I do understand that making this change would be a very big rework of amulets, runes, sigil's, classes and weapons. but maybe make an extra game mode (condition free matches/power builds only) like an event... and test it, Get response from the community and decide whether to change for good or not. Trust me SPVP will become balanced and if not then you tried at least without impacting the current system, People complain about condi builds (revnant, mirage, necro) Then arenanet nerfs it and a new condi build is made, The process repeats itself, Take care and thank you for your consideration. Guild Wars 2 for life!

    How would this make PvP balanced? I cant even imagine this change working out. Even modified a bit here and there, it's just way out there.
    Example: condi core necromancer. It does basicly no power damage. You nullify its offense through conditions, compensate by doubling its health... and you get a 100K health monster(shroud and HP combined) that weakens, cripples and fears you, but does absolutely no damage. What about this would be fun or balanced?

    Not to mention this would break PvE aswell.

    If you want changes this radical in an 8 year old game, you're better off making a new one.

    This change im suggesting is ONLY for SPVP not Pve, and core necro does a ton of power damage!
    i played power core necro for a long time and even got to plat 2 with it...
    and its never too late for a change (it would bring new life and a different outlook to the game which in turn would potentially lure players back that have quit because of this)

    PvP and PvE can have different balance, but they cannot have a different design. If you bleed someone/something, the same code calculates whats happening to your target in all gamemodes. So you either apply a design change to all gamemodes, or none of them.

    This is not true, Ever read your abilities? Some of them clearly say's (this skill is unique per game mode.) and thus it can be different from one another.

    I used the words balance and design on purpose. Have you ever read those abilities? All they differ in are numerical values like cooldown, duration etc. Show me one skill that has a different DESIGN! Exactly, there is none.

    Also saying that core necro does a lot of power damage doesn't really negate the fact that CONDI core necro doesn't. And it was just one example, all classes have builds which are exclusively focused on dealing damage through conditions. Weaponsets, entire traitlines, amulets, sigils, runes... condition damage is half of the game dude. You can't just remove it. Even if I granted you step one, which would be the techical problems of having different DESIGNS of the same skill, you're still left with a combat system thats designed around the duality of power and condition damage. You can't just erase condition damage from that system and expect it to work.

    You are literally this meme with your suggestion: "Hmm one of my legs hurt, I guess I could walk better if I just CUT IT OFF."

    I see your point, It would take a considerable amount of work to do what i am proposing if that is the way that pvp functions.
    It is speculation and i suggested this because of the balance issues pvp is having, i read a post again yesterday about a new player complaining about condi aoe spam, Something needs to change in a major way, and if the way i thought of would not work then please share your thoughts and help come up with a possible solution, Thank you for explaining!

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2021

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    are there even more then 4 actually good condi builds? whenever conditions are good its always " nerf all conditions ". Whenever power build is good its always " l2p " " just dodge" or " nerf this 1 specific thing leave the reast of the things alooone "
    Imagine if I made posts that Lich form is OP, therefore we need to nerf all power damage to the ground!
    And you know what? if you nef conditions what stops people from stacking the kitten out of toughness, protection, weakness and never dying ?
    then you will be making another posts " nerf the bunkers they OP OP " and remove toughness and remove protection and remove this and that and it will never end.

    did you notice that they blanket nerfed almost all power dmg in the game but did not nerf condi coefficients or base damage in february?

    // Yanim

  • Conditions with special effects/debuffs is cool story, however there must be "dot-damage over time" effects. Conditions with defensive builds are fine as long as you need long time to really set damage up, which can be cleansed and never applied/reached on long fights. Only problem is condition bursting as there are very few ways to mitigate condition damage and avoid burst. Other words, condition damage is flat damage, always dealt, avoiding armor and directly cutting your health. There are some classes that can reduce it : renegade, scrapper, soulbeast, death magic necro. Even with these, condition damage go trough.

    So best way to balance conditions in PvP is to remove too many stacks of same condition but as return to increase durations, so if enemy player do not cleanse it take great damage over time but it cannot get bursted by 10+ stacks instantly.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 3, 2021

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    are there even more then 4 actually good condi builds? whenever conditions are good its always " nerf all conditions ". Whenever power build is good its always " l2p " " just dodge" or " nerf this 1 specific thing leave the reast of the things alooone "
    Imagine if I made posts that Lich form is OP, therefore we need to nerf all power damage to the ground!
    And you know what? if you nef conditions what stops people from stacking the kitten out of toughness, protection, weakness and never dying ?
    then you will be making another posts " nerf the bunkers they OP OP " and remove toughness and remove protection and remove this and that and it will never end.

    did you notice that they blanket nerfed almost all power dmg in the game but did not nerf condi coefficients or base damage in february?

    yes, condi didnt get nerfed, Yet my sharper images deal 95% less damage, where do I report this "bug" for conditions surely did not get nerfed right ?
    edit
    losing deadshot amulet alone is 30%+ blanket nerf for condi damage, add in rune nerfs and some skill nerfs and conditions lost MORE damage then power.
    I remember sharp img having about 600 bleed damage ( OOC ) now not only the damage is ( on wizard and nightmare, random kitten for the sake of testing ) 255
    ( less then half ) and on top of it clones have 28,8% crit instead of 55% meaning its 75%+ less effective then it was, when you play carrion its 95% less effective

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ziggityzog.7389 said:

    When torment does damage while standing still or confusion does damage when not casting a skill.

    They had to do it because some Professions apply, way way way more Torment or Confusion than anything else.
    But this is only a problem in PvE.

    There is a "stationary" and "inactivity" damage split for Torment and Confusion in Competitive modes, which is lower than PvE, but it's still too high I feel.
    It's just ridiculous when yu are just "standing there" and 5 ticks of Torment is still ticking off 700 damage per tick.

    Like wow, even the one thing Torment is designed to "not punish" is punishing me.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • anjo.6143anjo.6143 Member ✭✭✭

    For a conquest mode that you have stand on ground to cap nodes and do map mechanics, conditions on AoE doing high damage as it does atm is that much stupid.

    The amount of damage for tick and the easy access to do it makes conditions actually burst annnd the access to cleanse it for some class is too low, so u cleanse 8 stacks and get more 5 next 2 sec OR you run and repeat while the guy hols the node and win the match, that is also very very stupid.

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    are there even more then 4 actually good condi builds? whenever conditions are good its always " nerf all conditions ". Whenever power build is good its always " l2p " " just dodge" or " nerf this 1 specific thing leave the reast of the things alooone "
    Imagine if I made posts that Lich form is OP, therefore we need to nerf all power damage to the ground!
    And you know what? if you nef conditions what stops people from stacking the kitten out of toughness, protection, weakness and never dying ?
    then you will be making another posts " nerf the bunkers they OP OP " and remove toughness and remove protection and remove this and that and it will never end.

    did you notice that they blanket nerfed almost all power dmg in the game but did not nerf condi coefficients or base damage in february?

    yes, condi didnt get nerfed, Yet my sharper images deal 95% less damage, where do I report this "bug" for conditions surely did not get nerfed right ?
    edit
    losing deadshot amulet alone is 30%+ blanket nerf for condi damage, add in rune nerfs and some skill nerfs and conditions lost MORE damage then power.
    I remember sharp img having about 600 bleed damage ( OOC ) now not only the damage is ( on wizard and nightmare, random kitten for the sake of testing ) 255
    ( less then half ) and on top of it clones have 28,8% crit instead of 55% meaning its 75%+ less effective then it was, when you play carrion its 95% less effective

    yes but then torch burn recieved a 0% nerf

    // Yanim

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2021

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    are there even more then 4 actually good condi builds? whenever conditions are good its always " nerf all conditions ". Whenever power build is good its always " l2p " " just dodge" or " nerf this 1 specific thing leave the reast of the things alooone "
    Imagine if I made posts that Lich form is OP, therefore we need to nerf all power damage to the ground!
    And you know what? if you nef conditions what stops people from stacking the kitten out of toughness, protection, weakness and never dying ?
    then you will be making another posts " nerf the bunkers they OP OP " and remove toughness and remove protection and remove this and that and it will never end.

    did you notice that they blanket nerfed almost all power dmg in the game but did not nerf condi coefficients or base damage in february?

    yes, condi didnt get nerfed, Yet my sharper images deal 95% less damage, where do I report this "bug" for conditions surely did not get nerfed right ?
    edit
    losing deadshot amulet alone is 30%+ blanket nerf for condi damage, add in rune nerfs and some skill nerfs and conditions lost MORE damage then power.
    I remember sharp img having about 600 bleed damage ( OOC ) now not only the damage is ( on wizard and nightmare, random kitten for the sake of testing ) 255
    ( less then half ) and on top of it clones have 28,8% crit instead of 55% meaning its 75%+ less effective then it was, when you play carrion its 95% less effective

    yes but then torch burn recieved a 0% nerf

    other then amulet removal that is, which as I said, is as good as blanket nerf to power. and combining it with the fact that torch did not have massive damage to begin with, and its LONG lasting makes it very easy to deal with.