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What is a really good support profession for WvW?

Orpheus.7891Orpheus.7891 Member ✭✭

I'm not looking to do damage, I'm looking for a profession that supports other people and keeps them alive

Comments

  • Grand Marshal.4098Grand Marshal.4098 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 5, 2021

    Support Firebrand (heals/boons mostly), Support Scrapper (cleanses/heals), Support Chronomancer (boons/strips), Support Spellbreaker (strips/low heal, low boon support) are the current meta.

    Metabattle and any other sites have these builds in their first page about wvw. Each site may tweak them a bit depending on the situation. Overall choose Guardian and you can be offensive or defensive at any given moment.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Minstrel Firebrand (check Metabattle) is the best there is if used properly.

  • Looks like Guardian is the profession to beat. Thanks

  • Nothing beats a Firebrand, although this is best used when your squad is organized. Scrappers comes in second place.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Firebrand , tempest, or scrapper (if you don't care as much about loot bags and your commander doesn't give scout tag)

    Chrono / spellbreaker are both more for boon rip not really for heal output or "keeping people alive".
    Your other options are dismal: druid, any thief, support scourge (people usually run hybrid) , herald (clunky tablet).

  • Helicity.3416Helicity.3416 Member ✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Firebrand , tempest, or scrapper (if you don't care as much about loot bags and your commander doesn't give scout tag)

    Chrono / spellbreaker are both more for boon rip not really for heal output or "keeping people alive".
    Your other options are dismal: druid, any thief, support scourge (people usually run hybrid) , herald (clunky tablet).

    Tempest is dead.
    It was already easily outperformed by scrapper, and then they nerfed shout targets to make sure Ele can't do anything the best.

    Thanks anet!

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭

    @Helicity.3416 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Firebrand , tempest, or scrapper (if you don't care as much about loot bags and your commander doesn't give scout tag)

    Chrono / spellbreaker are both more for boon rip not really for heal output or "keeping people alive".
    Your other options are dismal: druid, any thief, support scourge (people usually run hybrid) , herald (clunky tablet).

    Tempest is dead.
    It was already easily outperformed by scrapper, and then they nerfed shout targets to make sure Ele can't do anything the best.

    Thanks anet!

    Tempest cleanses more than scrapper does, assuming you are running the right build. It also offers a glyph rez. It's much stronger than scrapper at the small scale because of that. The shout nerf (which was known as going to happen for almost a year) did nothing really to affect tempests place in zergs, it was and is still about the superspeed, stealth, and condi conversion.

  • nomak.8693nomak.8693 Member ✭✭

    I’d suggest support scrapper. Also would suggest gw2mists website over metabattle for builds.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @nomak.8693 said:
    . Also would suggest gw2mists website over metabattle for builds.

    I may take this a step further: look at both, look at the differences between the builds recommended and see what fits your play style better.

    Also, if you have a guild or server discord look at their builds (if they have them) and compare them to the above two sites.

    More than likely they are basically from those sites. But it’s where you see the differences where you can begin to understand how to use it. Even then though, finding someone who plays that build regularly (and well) can be instructive.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Helicity.3416Helicity.3416 Member ✭✭✭

    @God.2708 said:

    Tempest cleanses more than scrapper does, assuming you are running the right build.

    No it doesn't, not in any fight that lasts more than a minute or so.

    And it's not even close.

  • supreme.3602supreme.3602 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2021

    @God.2708 said:

    @Helicity.3416 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Firebrand , tempest, or scrapper (if you don't care as much about loot bags and your commander doesn't give scout tag)

    Chrono / spellbreaker are both more for boon rip not really for heal output or "keeping people alive".
    Your other options are dismal: druid, any thief, support scourge (people usually run hybrid) , herald (clunky tablet).

    Tempest is dead.
    It was already easily outperformed by scrapper, and then they nerfed shout targets to make sure Ele can't do anything the best.

    Thanks anet!

    Tempest cleanses more than scrapper does, assuming you are running the right build. It also offers a glyph rez. It's much stronger than scrapper at the small scale because of that. The shout nerf (which was known as going to happen for almost a year) did nothing really to affect tempests place in zergs, it was and is still about the superspeed, stealth, and condi conversion.

    No competent Scrapper will allow themselves to get outcleansed by a Tempest. It's not possible anymore, not with the nerf to Tempestuous Aria and Water Overload.

    Give me some of that good stuff you're smoking, as well, because I wish I could play Tempest again and get high numbers like I once did before, I really do.

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2021

    @supreme.3602 said:

    @God.2708 said:

    @Helicity.3416 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Firebrand , tempest, or scrapper (if you don't care as much about loot bags and your commander doesn't give scout tag)

    Chrono / spellbreaker are both more for boon rip not really for heal output or "keeping people alive".
    Your other options are dismal: druid, any thief, support scourge (people usually run hybrid) , herald (clunky tablet).

    Tempest is dead.
    It was already easily outperformed by scrapper, and then they nerfed shout targets to make sure Ele can't do anything the best.

    Thanks anet!

    Tempest cleanses more than scrapper does, assuming you are running the right build. It also offers a glyph rez. It's much stronger than scrapper at the small scale because of that. The shout nerf (which was known as going to happen for almost a year) did nothing really to affect tempests place in zergs, it was and is still about the superspeed, stealth, and condi conversion.

    No competent Scrapper will allow themselves to get outcleansed by a Tempest. It's not possible anymore, not with the nerf to Tempestuous Aria and Water Overload.

    Give me some of that good stuff you're smoking, as well, because I wish I could play Tempest again and get high numbers like I once did before, I really do.

    Scrapper Cleanses
    Fumigate: 25 cleanses every 12s (2.1c/s) (Edit: Thought it was 30, its 25)
    Cleansing Field: 20 every 15s (1.3c/s)
    Purge Gyro: 25 cleanses every 20s (1.25c/s)
    Cleansing Synergy: 5 cleanses every 17s (0.3c/s)
    Super Elixir: 5 cleanses every 20s (0.25c/s)
    Some Whirl finisher shenanigans: ?
    4.98 Cleanses per second.

    D/F Elementalist, Trooper Runes.
    "Feel The Burn": 10 cleanses every 25s (0.4c/s)
    "AfterShock"/"Deep Freeze": 10 cleanses every 30s (0.33c/s)
    Eye of the Storm: 5 cleanses every 35s (0.14c/s)
    "Wash the Pain Away": 10 cleanses every 25s (0.4c/s)
    Fire attune ->Transmute: 15 cleanses every 10s (1.5c/s)
    Water attune: 5 cleanses every 20s (.25c/s)
    Shocking Aura -> Transmute: 15 cleanses every 25s (0.6c/s)
    Overload Water: 25 cleanses every 20s (1.25c/s)
    Stop Drop n Roll: ??
    Air overload -> transmute: ??
    Extra fire aura casts: ??
    Randomly blasting your guardian light fields with one of your 3/4 blasts: ??
    4.87 Cleanses per second.

    The scrapper has a slightly easier/more consistent time, but the tempest is easily competitive, and better if any of those ??s happen regularly (more than once every 10s)

  • supreme.3602supreme.3602 Member ✭✭✭

    @God.2708 said:

    @supreme.3602 said:

    @God.2708 said:

    @Helicity.3416 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Firebrand , tempest, or scrapper (if you don't care as much about loot bags and your commander doesn't give scout tag)

    Chrono / spellbreaker are both more for boon rip not really for heal output or "keeping people alive".
    Your other options are dismal: druid, any thief, support scourge (people usually run hybrid) , herald (clunky tablet).

    Tempest is dead.
    It was already easily outperformed by scrapper, and then they nerfed shout targets to make sure Ele can't do anything the best.

    Thanks anet!

    Tempest cleanses more than scrapper does, assuming you are running the right build. It also offers a glyph rez. It's much stronger than scrapper at the small scale because of that. The shout nerf (which was known as going to happen for almost a year) did nothing really to affect tempests place in zergs, it was and is still about the superspeed, stealth, and condi conversion.

    No competent Scrapper will allow themselves to get outcleansed by a Tempest. It's not possible anymore, not with the nerf to Tempestuous Aria and Water Overload.

    Give me some of that good stuff you're smoking, as well, because I wish I could play Tempest again and get high numbers like I once did before, I really do.

    Scrapper Cleanses
    Fumigate: 25 cleanses every 12s (2.1c/s) (Edit: Thought it was 30, its 25)
    Cleansing Field: 20 every 15s (1.3c/s)
    Purge Gyro: 25 cleanses every 20s (1.25c/s)
    Cleansing Synergy: 5 cleanses every 17s (0.3c/s)
    Super Elixir: 5 cleanses every 20s (0.25c/s)
    Some Whirl finisher shenanigans: ?
    4.98 Cleanses per second.

    D/F Elementalist, Trooper Runes.
    "Feel The Burn": 10 cleanses every 25s (0.4c/s)
    "AfterShock"/"Deep Freeze": 10 cleanses every 30s (0.33c/s)
    Eye of the Storm: 5 cleanses every 35s (0.14c/s)
    "Wash the Pain Away": 10 cleanses every 25s (0.4c/s)
    Fire attune ->Transmute: 15 cleanses every 10s (1.5c/s)
    Water attune: 5 cleanses every 20s (.25c/s)
    Shocking Aura -> Transmute: 15 cleanses every 25s (0.6c/s)
    Overload Water: 25 cleanses every 20s (1.25c/s)
    Stop Drop n Roll: ??
    Air overload -> transmute: ??
    Extra fire aura casts: ??
    Randomly blasting your guardian light fields with one of your 3/4 blasts: ??
    4.87 Cleanses per second.

    The scrapper has a slightly easier/more consistent time, but the tempest is easily competitive, and better if any of those ??s happen regularly (more than once every 10s)

    Nice, you're one of those numbers kind of guy. Doesn't matter, anyway. I have yet to see a Tempest outcleanse a Scrapper in this current meta. It won't work no matter how many numbers and skills you post here.

  • Helicity.3416Helicity.3416 Member ✭✭✭

    @supreme.3602 said:

    @God.2708 said:

    @supreme.3602 said:

    @God.2708 said:

    @Helicity.3416 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Firebrand , tempest, or scrapper (if you don't care as much about loot bags and your commander doesn't give scout tag)

    Chrono / spellbreaker are both more for boon rip not really for heal output or "keeping people alive".
    Your other options are dismal: druid, any thief, support scourge (people usually run hybrid) , herald (clunky tablet).

    Tempest is dead.
    It was already easily outperformed by scrapper, and then they nerfed shout targets to make sure Ele can't do anything the best.

    Thanks anet!

    Tempest cleanses more than scrapper does, assuming you are running the right build. It also offers a glyph rez. It's much stronger than scrapper at the small scale because of that. The shout nerf (which was known as going to happen for almost a year) did nothing really to affect tempests place in zergs, it was and is still about the superspeed, stealth, and condi conversion.

    No competent Scrapper will allow themselves to get outcleansed by a Tempest. It's not possible anymore, not with the nerf to Tempestuous Aria and Water Overload.

    Give me some of that good stuff you're smoking, as well, because I wish I could play Tempest again and get high numbers like I once did before, I really do.

    Scrapper Cleanses
    Fumigate: 25 cleanses every 12s (2.1c/s) (Edit: Thought it was 30, its 25)
    Cleansing Field: 20 every 15s (1.3c/s)
    Purge Gyro: 25 cleanses every 20s (1.25c/s)
    Cleansing Synergy: 5 cleanses every 17s (0.3c/s)
    Super Elixir: 5 cleanses every 20s (0.25c/s)
    Some Whirl finisher shenanigans: ?
    4.98 Cleanses per second.

    D/F Elementalist, Trooper Runes.
    "Feel The Burn": 10 cleanses every 25s (0.4c/s)
    "AfterShock"/"Deep Freeze": 10 cleanses every 30s (0.33c/s)
    Eye of the Storm: 5 cleanses every 35s (0.14c/s)
    "Wash the Pain Away": 10 cleanses every 25s (0.4c/s)
    Fire attune ->Transmute: 15 cleanses every 10s (1.5c/s)
    Water attune: 5 cleanses every 20s (.25c/s)
    Shocking Aura -> Transmute: 15 cleanses every 25s (0.6c/s)
    Overload Water: 25 cleanses every 20s (1.25c/s)
    Stop Drop n Roll: ??
    Air overload -> transmute: ??
    Extra fire aura casts: ??
    Randomly blasting your guardian light fields with one of your 3/4 blasts: ??
    4.87 Cleanses per second.

    The scrapper has a slightly easier/more consistent time, but the tempest is easily competitive, and better if any of those ??s happen regularly (more than once every 10s)

    Nice, you're one of those numbers kind of guy. Doesn't matter, anyway. I have yet to see a Tempest outcleanse a Scrapper in this current meta. It won't work no matter how many numbers and skills you post here.

    It's not even close, and we really REALLY tried.

    But let this guy keep believing, presumably he is on a onepush server where he does comparatively well because the bar is very low.

    I can outcleanse a garbage scrapper on my tempest, but any remotely competent scrapper will begin outpacing at around 1m combat duration, and never stop.

  • @nomak.8693 said:
    I’d suggest support scrapper. Also would suggest gw2mists website over metabattle for builds.

    This. Metabattle builds are sometimes terrible and they routinely delete comments and ratings.

  • God.2708God.2708 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2021

    @Helicity.3416 said:

    @supreme.3602 said:

    @God.2708 said:

    @supreme.3602 said:

    @God.2708 said:

    @Helicity.3416 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Firebrand , tempest, or scrapper (if you don't care as much about loot bags and your commander doesn't give scout tag)

    Chrono / spellbreaker are both more for boon rip not really for heal output or "keeping people alive".
    Your other options are dismal: druid, any thief, support scourge (people usually run hybrid) , herald (clunky tablet).

    Tempest is dead.
    It was already easily outperformed by scrapper, and then they nerfed shout targets to make sure Ele can't do anything the best.

    Thanks anet!

    Tempest cleanses more than scrapper does, assuming you are running the right build. It also offers a glyph rez. It's much stronger than scrapper at the small scale because of that. The shout nerf (which was known as going to happen for almost a year) did nothing really to affect tempests place in zergs, it was and is still about the superspeed, stealth, and condi conversion.

    No competent Scrapper will allow themselves to get outcleansed by a Tempest. It's not possible anymore, not with the nerf to Tempestuous Aria and Water Overload.

    Give me some of that good stuff you're smoking, as well, because I wish I could play Tempest again and get high numbers like I once did before, I really do.

    Scrapper Cleanses
    Fumigate: 25 cleanses every 12s (2.1c/s) (Edit: Thought it was 30, its 25)
    Cleansing Field: 20 every 15s (1.3c/s)
    Purge Gyro: 25 cleanses every 20s (1.25c/s)
    Cleansing Synergy: 5 cleanses every 17s (0.3c/s)
    Super Elixir: 5 cleanses every 20s (0.25c/s)
    Some Whirl finisher shenanigans: ?
    4.98 Cleanses per second.

    D/F Elementalist, Trooper Runes.
    "Feel The Burn": 10 cleanses every 25s (0.4c/s)
    "AfterShock"/"Deep Freeze": 10 cleanses every 30s (0.33c/s)
    Eye of the Storm: 5 cleanses every 35s (0.14c/s)
    "Wash the Pain Away": 10 cleanses every 25s (0.4c/s)
    Fire attune ->Transmute: 15 cleanses every 10s (1.5c/s)
    Water attune: 5 cleanses every 20s (.25c/s)
    Shocking Aura -> Transmute: 15 cleanses every 25s (0.6c/s)
    Overload Water: 25 cleanses every 20s (1.25c/s)
    Stop Drop n Roll: ??
    Air overload -> transmute: ??
    Extra fire aura casts: ??
    Randomly blasting your guardian light fields with one of your 3/4 blasts: ??
    4.87 Cleanses per second.

    The scrapper has a slightly easier/more consistent time, but the tempest is easily competitive, and better if any of those ??s happen regularly (more than once every 10s)

    Nice, you're one of those numbers kind of guy. Doesn't matter, anyway. I have yet to see a Tempest outcleanse a Scrapper in this current meta. It won't work no matter how many numbers and skills you post here.

    It's not even close, and we really REALLY tried.

    But let this guy keep believing, presumably he is on a onepush server where he does comparatively well because the bar is very low.

    I can outcleanse a garbage scrapper on my tempest, but any remotely competent scrapper will begin outpacing at around 1m combat duration, and never stop.

    Whoosh. I'm very excited to here about your leet server. I didn't state tempest was better than scrapper at all. I said tempest can outcleanse it. I've watched it happen and I've done it on multiple servers. You can anecdotal away. I don't think taking tempests over scrappers is a good idea, because of things mentioned in first post, but Tempest has more, if slightly less consistent, cleanses (which is why they stop cleansing more after a minute usually)

    I also appreciate you totally left out the brunt of my argument: Tempest isn't dead, and thrives at the smaller scale, where the utility it brings that scrapper doesn't have access to shines way more.

  • Touchme.1097Touchme.1097 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2021

    I have already expressed my disappointment on support Elementalist in a feedback not long time ago. I hope the devs will bring it back into the Meta. I have an elementalist at max level and I don't know what to do with it because this profession feels pretty much underperforming for the efforts invested to master its mechanics. Tempest needs a rework.

  • gavyne.6847gavyne.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    Doesn't matter how much Tempests cleanse, Scrappers flip everything they cleanse into boons thanks to Purity of Purpose. So even if a Tempest is "competitive" with Scrappers, it doesn't matter, Scrappers still win due to the single fact that they keep your whole squad with a full bar of boons with their cleanses. Why take a class that erases condi's when you can take a class that turns all the condi's into boons? Simply you wouldn't.

    A nerf to Purity of Purpose would bring Tempests back into meta. Tempests already got their 10 target shouts slapped. We're all waiting to see what Anet is going to do with their rumored 2nd round of support balance nerfs. Until then, if you want to play useful meta support, go with either a minstrel firebrand or support scrapper.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    How can anybody still state that Tempest is viable in wvw?...god...there are scrappers/scourge/firebrand zergs everywhere and some people claim Tempest is still meta ....

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Jarni.7402Jarni.7402 Member

    @God.2708 said:

    @Helicity.3416 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Firebrand , tempest, or scrapper (if you don't care as much about loot bags and your commander doesn't give scout tag)

    Chrono / spellbreaker are both more for boon rip not really for heal output or "keeping people alive".
    Your other options are dismal: druid, any thief, support scourge (people usually run hybrid) , herald (clunky tablet).

    Tempest is dead.
    It was already easily outperformed by scrapper, and then they nerfed shout targets to make sure Ele can't do anything the best.

    Thanks anet!

    Tempest cleanses more than scrapper does, assuming you are running the right build. It also offers a glyph rez. It's much stronger than scrapper at the small scale because of that. The shout nerf (which was known as going to happen for almost a year) did nothing really to affect tempests place in zergs, it was and is still about the superspeed, stealth, and condi conversion.

    1) Tempest doesn't cleanse more than scrapper, as other people have already explained above.
    2) I can't believe how no one in this discussion has yet mentioned how scrapper CONVERTS conditions into boons rather than just cleansing them. That is a big part of what makes scrapper the superior secondary support class.

    The same thing applies to boon strips (since I still see people arguing about spellbreaker/chronomancer vs scourge for strips): corruption from scourge is far superior to just stripping boons. Chronomancer is more of a utility bot that can also strip a lot and spellbreaker is good because the bubble is a form of area denial and because it cancels boon application leaving the affected players very vulnerable.

    And finally, as a reply to the original post: firebrand provides crucial boons and also helps with healing and cleansing, and scrapper provides big healing and lots of condi conversion (also usually referred to as 'cleansing') and access to group stealth. Usually you want to have both a firebrand a scrapper in each party, so you can pick either one. For a newer WvW player, scrapper may be the better option because it's easier to play and arguably less essential to keeping the party alive than firebrand (in other words: if you die as firebrand, your party is screwed. If you die as scrapper, the party can be fine without you).

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You can't say that scrapper is strong and in every squad and then proceed to push for more scourges as boon rip...

    Well of corruption is weaker now with the superspeed flying around and the strips on the weapons , albeit on low cooldown, don't strip that deep anymore.

  • Kencu.5846Kencu.5846 Member ✭✭
    edited 6:56PM

    There are better classes for cleanse and strip but the satisfaction from pulls on chrono can be awesome)

    Sometimes I run Feedback, good against necro and rev autoattacks