[PvE Only] Revenant/Herald Tweaks

I'm gonna leave my suggestions for tweaks that would make a few Revenant traits a lot more viable and have greater quality of life. In particular, I wanted to increase the potency of support Herald which has traditionally struggled to compete with its cousin, the Renegade, when it comes to filling a support role in most content.

InvocationCharged Mists: Increase energy threshold from 10 to 15.Song of the Mists: In addition to its previous effects, this trait now breaks stun on legend swap.

SalvationWords of Censure: In addition to its previous effects, this trait now also increases the radius of healing orbs by 50%.

HeraldShared Empowerment: Increase might duration from 8s to 12sElevated Compassion: Slightly increase healing (~10%)Forceful Persistence: Change this skill to be in line with Rising Momentum and Hardening Persistence so it increases damage based on each pip of upkeep. Increase damage by 2.5% per point of upkeep.

EDIT (1/16/2021): Also, some shield changes that I think could enhance the weapon:

-Envoy of Exuberance: In addition to its previous effects, this skill now cleanses 1 condition. (taking Hardening Persistence will cleanse an additional condition)-Crystal Hibernation: Reduce cooldown from 25s to 20s. Reduce energy cost from 20 to 17. In addition to its previous effects, this skill's healing effect is now boosted by 3% per condition on the Herald.

@"lombomon.7268" said:

InvocationSong of the Mists: In addition to its previous effects, this trait now breaks stun on legend swap.

Even if it is PvE only, idk how I feel about this.Charged Mists will probably never be dropped for Raids/Fractals due to how important the upkeep skills utilize this, but having a Stunbreak on swap FOR PVE ONLY would be nice.

However, in the end, the issue lies with Legends themselves : Every Legend needs a cost-effective and reliable Stunbreak, so we can avoid using gimmicky traits like "Stunbreak on Swap" to supplement a lack of stunbreaks.

SalvationWords of Censure: In addition to its previous effects, this trait now also increases the radius of healing orbs by 50%.

Won't fix healing orbs :/Healing orbs are just bad design, similar to Engineer's dropped med-packs.

@"lombomon.7268" said:InvocationCharged Mists: Increase energy threshold from 10 to 15.Ok. I think its an weird system overall. They should make it "Higher energy bonus for every 10% energy less" or something.

Song of the Mists: In addition to its previous effects, this trait now breaks stun on legend swap.hm id say its already an strong trait and doesnt need an buff, even tho i miss the old legend swap stunbreak. Maybe could be added to ventaris Song

SalvationWords of Censure: In addition to its previous effects, this trait now also increases the radius of healing orbs by 50%.

should increase the healed targets by 5 (to10) ,but would make it still not viable.

HeraldShared Empowerment: Increase might duration from 8s to 12sForceful Persistence: Change this skill to be in line with Rising Momentum and Hardening Persistence so it increases damage based on each pip of upkeep. Increase damage by 2.5% per point of upkeep.Yes. oh yes please. An buff to the facet of Strength-Passive might generation wouldnt be bad too. I mean it has 2Upkeep-Costs and does less than Shared Empowerment

Elevated Compassion: Slightly increase healing (~10%)Even if they removed the cooldown of it, so the healing would trigger for every boon, it wouldnt be used over the other 2 options

Id like to come up with an older post of mine All of those buffs would buff PvE-Herald quite a bit, while not having an noticable impact on wvw or pvp anyway. So theres no need to split.

Heralds F2 -Facet of Nature- could definitely need a buff, In my opinion.Its the only thing that gives herald access to becoming a viable class in pve-endgame like raids.my ideas:

Shiro-Facet of Nature: reduce the internal cooldown from 0.5 to 0.33 or 0.25 (like impossible odds).It wouldnt really make herald itself any stronger, but would improve a groups damage a bit more, to make up for the low damage of the herald.

Dwarf-Facet of Nature: has 10% dmg reduction. Give it an additional 10% condi-dmg reduction, so it would line up with Vengeful Hammers & Dwarf-Elite(with retribution-trait)

Ventari-Facet of Nature: definitely needs an buff. Together with regeneration (And now the weak elevated compassion), its heralds only source to be an healer in 10man-content.My idea: change PvE's healpower-modifier from 0,4 to 0,6

Glint-Facet of Nature: tbh i dont know how to improve it. Its able to extend given boons. In real, most classes dont give boons at all. Only supporters are there to give boons. Without supporters, herald would only a bit buff itself.With supporters like druid, firebrands etc , it would only help these classes maintain the boons the herald can give anyway, so there wouldnt be a need for herald boons whatsoever..... like those classes would need help to maintain their boons....

It is definetely in need of an stronger class-specific group buff. Some that increases the herald-performance in a group, but not on its own.

@"Virdo.1540" said:It is definetely in need of an stronger class-specific group buff. Some that increases the herald-performance in a group, but not on its own.

It only "definitely needs a stronger class-specific group buff" if we assume every single espec of every class needs to have one for some reason, which is just not the case. So it doesn't need one, you can just pick ren for your "unique group buff" in the form of alacrity and you're good to go if that's what you're aiming for with reventant. Overally this is something that seems to be already covered for this class. I don't understand by what logic an espec needs to spawn an espec-unique group buff all of the sudden.

@Sobx.1758 said:

@"Virdo.1540" said:

It is definetely in need of an stronger class-specific group buff. Some that increases the herald-performance in a group, but not on its own.

You already had an discussion about this. If you completely remove chronomancer, then renegade would have an unique buff "alacrity", but this isnt the case.Also whatever may be, herald with its boons is just something that is spread over many classes anyway, so nothing good. its already provided by anything else. (druid, firebrand, tempest, renegade etc.)herald already has an Special buff, Facet of nature, its just terrible. Heralds support isnt great, its damage is even worse. A buff to the "Facet of Nature" is a way to buff support & damage indirectly at the same time ,without making herald on his own noticeably better.

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

It is definetely in need of an stronger class-specific group buff. Some that increases the herald-performance in a group, but not on its own.

Kind of, but most of what I said was dodged by trying to imply I wrote "revenant" by accident or something, which I didn't.Also, by the same logic: you already had a post about this, but somehow this is ok? :D

If you completely remove chronomancer, then renegade would have an unique buff "alacrity", but this isnt the case.

Renegade already has pretty much a reserved a spot, the fact that "some other class can use that buff too, but in reality rarely does so" is mostly irrelevant. Even if they were used 50:50 for that, that's more than other classes have, which again goes back to the fact that revenant as a class already has that base covered and not every espec needs to have "it's own unique group buff" for some reason.

Also whatever may be, herald with its boons is just something that is spread over many classes anyway, so nothing good. its already provided by anything else. (druid, firebrand, tempest, renegade etc.)

Yup, this is mostly how this game works. And again, herald isn't a seperate class. Renegade, pretty much reserved squad spot and so on.

herald already has an Special buff, Facet of nature, its just terrible. Heralds support isnt great, its damage is even worse. A buff to the "Facet of Nature" is a way to buff support & damage indirectly at the same time ,without making herald on his own noticeably better.

Everything in the game "can be buffed", but there's no exact reason to do it, especailly when the same class already covers the role of "unique buff" (yeah, yeah, two classes have it, most of the time renegade is used anyways, somehow it makes it "non unique", ok).

The point is: "It is definetely in need of an stronger class-specific group buff." this is just wrong and not really how the especs in this game work, so not sure why it's an argument in this specific case.

I don't see a problem that needs to be fixed here. Herald struggles to 'compete' with it's Renegade cousin in PVE? There isn't a requirement it needs to. Especs are a thematic deviation to give variety in play. It's not necessary that all especs are viable in every game mode, especially if that isn't their intent.

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't see a problem that needs to be fixed here. Herald struggles to 'compete' with it's Renegade cousin in PVE? There isn't a requirement it needs to. Especs are a thematic deviation to give variety in play. It's not necessary that all especs are viable in every game mode, especially if that isn't their intent.

herald struggles to compete with every other spec in the game in PvE. Heralds arent even able to be taken into raid in most groups due to be seen as a joke, even though its not the worst class

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't see a problem that needs to be fixed here. Herald struggles to 'compete' with it's Renegade cousin in PVE? There isn't a requirement it needs to. Especs are a thematic deviation to give variety in play. It's not necessary that all especs are viable in every game mode, especially if that isn't their intent.

Except classes DON'T compete in PVE. Herald getting a raid group is a function of how you play, not how the class works.

I mean, don't even GO to the place where you argue Herald isn't meta so it needs a buff ... because that's a non-starter.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't see a problem that needs to be fixed here. Herald struggles to 'compete' with it's Renegade cousin in PVE? There isn't a requirement it needs to. Especs are a thematic deviation to give variety in play. It's not necessary that all especs are viable in every game mode, especially if that isn't their intent.

its not like talking about meta or something. but if players enjoy playing herald (NOT RENEGADE) ,and wanna go into other pve stuff ,like raid ,fractals, strikes ,DRMS or whatsoever and arent simply taken into a group cuz of playing "herald" ,which is still counted as a joke by a big part of the community due to the lack of look below, then its a problem,no?

Its struggeling to compete with other classes in player-limited pve content.It has bad damage to be a Dps class, not enough support to be a healer or boon-class, etc. while there are other classes with higher damage, better support and even easier to play (rotation wise).

Nobody talked about Renegade. These posts arent related to renegade in any way. It a post about "Revenant/Herald" ,no mentioning renegade.

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't see a problem that needs to be fixed here. Herald struggles to 'compete' with it's Renegade cousin in PVE? There isn't a requirement it needs to. Especs are a thematic deviation to give variety in play. It's not necessary that all especs are viable in every game mode, especially if that isn't their intent.

Well, you are. You just don't realize it.

but if players enjoy playing herald (NOT RENEGADE) ,and wanna go into other pve stuff ,like raid ,fractals, strikes ,DRMS or whatsoever and arent simply taken into a group cuz of playing "herald" ,which is still counted as a joke by a big part of the community due to the lack of look below, then its a problem,no?

And you have convinced yourself that Anet buffing Herald but NOT making Herald meta will fix that? because you realize those teams didn't take Herald in the first place because they aren't meta right? I mean, it might be a problem for SOME people but it's a problem they can't fix themselves.

Its struggeling to compete with other classes in player-limited pve content.

And it will continue to do so as long as it's not meta ... so yes, we ARE talking about buffing it to be meta. And no, that doesn't need to happen because being meta isn't a requirement for anyone except the metapusher ... and we DON'T want this game to cater to that kind of thinking.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't see a problem that needs to be fixed here. Herald struggles to 'compete' with it's Renegade cousin in PVE? There isn't a requirement it needs to. Especs are a thematic deviation to give variety in play. It's not necessary that all especs are viable in every game mode, especially if that isn't their intent.

but if players enjoy playing herald (NOT RENEGADE) ,and wanna go into other pve stuff ,like raid ,fractals, strikes ,DRMS or whatsoever and arent simply taken into a group cuz of playing "herald" ,which is still counted as a joke by a big part of the community due to the lack of

look below

, then its a problem,no?

Its struggeling to compete with other classes in player-limited pve content.

Currently, Herald doesn’t even surpass its own cousin, the Renegade, at really anything, which is an issue. Elite specs are supposed to fill niches and add playstyles, but what Herald adds is minimal (For PvE). Ren beats it in condi, power, and support/utility. I don’t think virdo or anyone else is asking for it to be meta, but instead acknowledging the very real truth that Herald doesn’t compete with Ren (and almost any other spec in the game) really at all for the games current power level. When almost every power DPS build has a 37-38k benchmark and Ren can only bench 34 (which is better than Herald) there is a disparity that should be addressed. I don’t think classes need to be perfectly in line with each other, but they should be similar and at the very least decent picks. If Herald isn’t buffed, then other classes should be brought down to be more in line.

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't see a problem that needs to be fixed here. Herald struggles to 'compete' with it's Renegade cousin in PVE? There isn't a requirement it needs to. Especs are a thematic deviation to give variety in play. It's not necessary that all especs are viable in every game mode, especially if that isn't their intent.

but if players enjoy playing herald (NOT RENEGADE) ,and wanna go into other pve stuff ,like raid ,fractals, strikes ,DRMS or whatsoever and arent simply taken into a group cuz of playing "herald" ,which is still counted as a joke by a big part of the community due to the lack of

look below

, then its a problem,no?

Its struggeling to compete with other classes in player-limited pve content.

Again, that's not an issue. Nothing should give people the idea that an espec is designed to 'surpass' other especs for anything; especs are implemented as thematic variations. There is no requirement for 'surpassing' and the game isn't designed in a way that should give you the impression it is. Whatever disparity exists does NOT prevent anyone from choosing and playing how they want and being successful.

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't see a problem that needs to be fixed here. Herald struggles to 'compete' with it's Renegade cousin in PVE? There isn't a requirement it needs to. Especs are a thematic deviation to give variety in play. It's not necessary that all especs are viable in every game mode, especially if that isn't their intent.

It's true, elite specializations are meant to fill different roles rather than being better/worse than their counterparts. However, Herald is VERY clearly designed to be a support spec. All of the Facets pump out boons, the traits focus mostly on defense or furthering healing/boon support. Renegade, however, outclasses Herald in heals and boons. All I want is for Herald to be in a place where it can fill the mechanical niche it was clearly designed to fill, support.

@lombomon.7268 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:I don't see a problem that needs to be fixed here. Herald struggles to 'compete' with it's Renegade cousin in PVE? There isn't a requirement it needs to. Especs are a thematic deviation to give variety in play. It's not necessary that all especs are viable in every game mode, especially if that isn't their intent.

It is a support on its own terms, not on renegade's terms which is what he wants it to be by just slapping another unique buff on it.Each of the "clearly pumping out boons facets" are also flip skills, so if it's "clearly supposed to be a support", then you're fine with removing those flip skills or suddenly it's not such a clearly outlined design and you're fine with it?"I want to play this espec, but also do what the other does" never was and still is not an argument to randomly buff it. And neither is "this profession/build isn't meta".

@lombomon.7268 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't see a problem that needs to be fixed here. Herald struggles to 'compete' with it's Renegade cousin in PVE? There isn't a requirement it needs to. Especs are a thematic deviation to give variety in play. It's not necessary that all especs are viable in every game mode, especially if that isn't their intent.

It's very clearly designed with the traits and skills it has ... but that's all. You want Herald to fill it's 'role' ... it does that because it has the skills that Anet intended it to have for the theme they want it to possess.

Another sign of meta-think ... insisting especs have roles based on their skills instead of recognizing the skills they have are there to complete a theme.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Virdo.1540 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:I don't see a problem that needs to be fixed here. Herald struggles to 'compete' with it's Renegade cousin in PVE? There isn't a requirement it needs to. Especs are a thematic deviation to give variety in play. It's not necessary that all especs are viable in every game mode, especially if that isn't their intent.

but if players enjoy playing herald (NOT RENEGADE) ,and wanna go into other pve stuff ,like raid ,fractals, strikes ,DRMS or whatsoever and arent simply taken into a group cuz of playing "herald" ,which is still counted as a joke by a big part of the community due to the lack of

look below

, then its a problem,no?

Its struggeling to compete with other classes in player-limited pve content.

Where is the Anet quote that says they're supposed to be "Thematic Variations?" I haven't seen one. That's just conjecture on your part. However, what Anet HAS stated about Elite Specs is that they're supposed to fill in missing parts of the class AND add different playstyles. What void does Herald fill that Renegade doesn't for PvE? 10 player boons? Fury + Swiftness generation? Again, the fact of the matter is it doesn't do anything notable better than Renegade.

And ofc people can play whatever and make it work; that's never been the issue. I frequently play Herald in Fracs/Raids and still get better dps than many, many pugs. The player skill level is, as Anet has discussed at length in the past, relatively poor across the board with the best players doing 10-20x more damage than the worst. That's still the case even with "bad" builds like Herald.

You can say these things aren't an issue, but if I claim they are an issue who is right in that regard? It's completely a matter of perspective and opinion so I'm afraid we won't agree on this. I don't like your vision of how the game should be.

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:I don't like your vision of how the game should be.

Except it's not my vision; I'm not developing the game. The game is based on what Anet thinks it should be and there is over 8 years of game history that suggests Anet doesn't buff classes so they 'compete' in PVE. We know that because the game isn't designed so that only 'competitive' builds and classes can be successful. Also, if the vision was everything 'competes' in PVE ... we would have or mostly it. But we don't, not even close, so it's not. Any opinion that Anet is balancing to some 'competitive' level for all classes in PVE is not a very woke one. You don't want to believe Anet makes class changes based on theme? OK ... but I can assure you they don't make class changes based on 'PVE competing'.

If you want to compete, you can choose accordingly. If you want to play how you want, you can ALSO choose accordingly. The answer to this problem is choice ... and it's choices we all have. If it's an issue, the solution for THOSE people already exists.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:I don't like your vision of how the game should be.

That’s completely false and provably untrue. They’ve literally said in many, many patch notes over the past 8 years “ X class is being toned down because it’s over performing in PvE” or “X class is being buffed because it’s underperforming in PvE.” Clearly Anet believes classes should be able to compete with each other to provide higher diversity. If they didn’t, we’d still be stuck with the old only Chrono/Tempest meta

If you had said “Anet hasn’t balanced for PvE in the past year” then I’d agree because that’s largely true, since the level of attention from Anet for PvE balance has gone wayyy down since IBS. However, saying “Anet doesn’t care if specs can compete with each other in PvE” is patently false due to their history of balance choices and explanations.

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:I don't like your vision of how the game should be.

OK... then prove it. I see LOTS of changes happening that DON'T result in the game converging on class performance balance for 8 years now. If I'm wrong ... where are all these builds that allow all classes to perform equivalent to each other to compete for meta spots in PVE? How come after dozens of balance patches over 8 years, we have NOTHING that looks like what you are talking about?

See, I don't care what Anet tells me ... I care about what they ACTUALLY do in the game ... and nothing there should indicate that Anet is making changes to classes so they all compete for meta ... because they don't yet ... it doesn't take dozens of patches and 8 years to accomplish such a thing. The game doesn't require it either ... it's already designed to accommodate the wide range of performance. We don't even have a situation where all CLASSES have competitive meta builds so forget about especs.

Again, this isn't some imaginary vision I'm having ... you see it if you have your eyes open.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:I don't like your vision of how the game should be.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2018-12-11#Mesmer

“ In this update, we've made changes to Signet of Inspiration and Mimic—two core skills in the current skill rotation for chronomancers in raids. These are fairly significant changes with slightly different purposes, although both have been made to address the issue of stacking power multipliers.....

However, the power these two skills allowed chronomancers made them a one-stop shop for every boon in the game, which was crowding out other potential roles in raid compositions.”

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game_updates/2018-02-06#Revenant

“Power-build revenants have been languishing behind their condition-build counterparts.”

There are dozens upon dozens of more examples throughout the past 8 years that can be found. These are not only words of theirs explaining their intentions, but also action Anet took in the form of direct changes, buffs and nerfs, in an attempt to bring classes closer into line with each other.

No one said “Equivalent” don’t put words in my mouth or in Anet’s. What I did say was “I don’t think classes need to be perfectly in line with each other, but they should be similar and at the very least decent picks” as stated by one of my previous posts. Note the word similar, it means “resembling without being identical.”

How come after dozens of balance patches over 8 years, we have NOTHING that looks like what you are talking about?

We actually almost do at the moment. Almost every elite spec has at least one build that benches between 36-39k or have a strong support build that lets them be useful for things besides damage. There are some outliers (I.e. Herald) but those can be fixed over time. Which is what this thread is about...

The main issue as I stated in my last post is the slow balance and (lately) the lack of focus on PvE balance (for about 1 year). To say Anet doesn’t want classes to be able to compete with each other is still incorrect as the posts above prove. They’ve time and again provided intention and action leading in the direction of class diversity and similarity in terms of performance.

, this isn't some imaginary vision I'm having ... you see it if you have your eyes open.

Mine are quite open considering it took about two seconds for me to find the information needed to debunk your claims

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:I don't like your vision of how the game should be.

How come after dozens of balance patches over 8 years, we have NOTHING that looks like what you are talking about?

, this isn't some imaginary vision I'm having ... you see it if you have your eyes open.

OK so Anet made a bunch of changes ... and we STILL don't have these competitive PVE classes after 8 years. So really, what you are providing here is proof of what I'm saying is true.

No claim I have made is debunked because no changes Anet has made over the last 8 years has resulted in a convergence of all classes being competitive for PVE team spots. Until that happens, I'm not wrong. If Anet was targeting classes to have some range of reasonable performance, we would either have it now ... or we do have it and you aren't willing to recognize the range is appropriate.

See the funny part here is that this is all kind of irrelevant ... because what I said is still true: Herald isn't going to get team spots where they are current refused unless they have a buff that's make them meta ... because not being meta is the reason they are being refused to begin with.

@Obtena.7952 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:I don't like your vision of how the game should be.

How come after dozens of balance patches over 8 years, we have NOTHING that looks like what you are talking about?

, this isn't some imaginary vision I'm having ... you see it if you have your eyes open.

Sure, Jan. You literally claimed Anet doesn't balance for classes to compete in PvE. As the previous patch notes I posted show they clearly have that as their intention and they do put forth action towards making that happen. Just because we don't have perfect balance doesn't mean they don't balance towards that goal or put in action towards that goal. Resource allocation is important and if they had infinite funding I'm sure, based on their previous history, that we would have a much more convergent balance than we have now (and we still have probably the best and most convergent balance we've ever had right at this moment).

Until that happens, I'm not wrong. If Anet was targeting classes to have some range of reasonable performance, we would either have it now ... or we do have it and you aren't willing to recognize the range is appropriate.

Neither of us can know "if the range is appropriate" or not based on Anet's standards. However, we can make our own judgments based on the current range. Herald getting 31/32k dps while also not being nearly as solid a support as most other support options to me is a problem.

Also this can be chalked up to, as mentioned, Anet not having the resource allocation for being able to achieve their intended perfect balance. That's another thing we as posters can't know definitively, but as mentioned is an important variable to remember (and evidence does show that they don't have a huge resource allocation for balance).

See the funny part here is that this is all kind of irrelevant ... because what I said is still true: Herald isn't going to get team spots where they are current refused unless they have a buff that's make them meta ... because not being meta is the reason they are being refused to begin with.

Yes and No. Reaper is now hitting 34.5k, which is almost in that "36-39k" threshold I mentioned in my last post. Guess what is now being more accepted in a larger amount of groups? Reaper. Sure, the top tier speedrun types still aren't bringing reaper, but a whole lot more reapers are not getting insta kicked from fractals and raids in above average groups. This is the target the game should be shooting for.

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:You literally claimed Anet doesn't balance for classes to compete in PvE.

I believe that ... because I see what has happened in the game for over 8 years ... changes that DON'T result in classes being competitive in PVE ... EVEN the examples of the changes you gave. Unlike other people, I don't ignore what is real. I don't care what Anet said because what is relevant here is what the game is.

What we have ingame is a situation where many classes span a range of performance that most people consider too large to be competitive for many years. That's not some accident or miscalculation from Anet because there is no way it should take this many changes over this length of time to achieve whatever range of performance players think results in competitive PVE balance ... so if you believe Anet is targeting some range or threshold of competitive PVE performance, you need to explain how that discrepancy between Anet and player's vision of the game still exists. Otherwise, you can't be right.