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What is off-topic or Spam?

Fuchslein.8639Fuchslein.8639 Member ✭✭✭
edited January 6, 2021 in Players Helping Players

One question, hoping I don't get a warning for this.(From the support itself you are only referred to the AGB's)
Where are the differences, between Wilkycat's(willycat?) Therads where he reports about his experiences in PVP and Fractals to the Therads where e.g. about Mount-Skins is talked, or the Thread where someone says that she plays GW2 again and Toypocalypse enjoys.

If it is supposedly really dependent on whether someone follows the rules where are the differences that he is warned, but these other threads seem to have a justification?
I'm not talking about his spam here, but just his last two threads or even his "Merry Christmas" thread which was also not the first of its kind but his thread was deletet
What is he doing that his posts are against the rules but other posts of the same kind are not?
In general, why is something considered off-topic although it is about GW2, while other posts with also short sentences remain standing which mostly just make a joke?

Where's the difference from one therad where you talk about the mods not being removed to all the others that were removed even though nothing else was said in either?
If it really does not depend on how many people report one and how the mod thinks about it, can someone please answer me these questions?
(please everyone except certain people who always just repeat themselves and like the support rarely respond to one)

At the same time yesterday I reported someone who obviously wrote offensive. Called someone stupid and ridiculous, but whose comment was not deleted.
Where did he follow the rules that it is justified that his comment remains standing. While another in the thread that only mentioned a certain adult store was deleted?

I could give a thousand more such examples ...

Comments

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 6, 2021

    A lot of his threads come off as diary/journal entries which is probably why people took issue with them.

    That said, consistency really isn’t a thing in this game in all aspects of it including in the forums.

  • Fuchslein.8639Fuchslein.8639 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    A lot of his threads come off as diary/journal entries which is probably why people took issue with them.

    That said, consistency really isn’t a thing in this game in all aspects of it including in the forums.

    But isn't that what it's all about?
    People have taken offense at this. People take offense at everything, especially in forums. But a mod should decide in the end according to the rules if something really speaks against it. And if once so and once so is decided, what is the reason?
    He could have just moved the threads from him to Community Creations, where a lot of such threads are.
    I just saw that he has now even opened a new thread in this section and I'm really curious whether it will be removed again.

    In another thread that was removed, someone said (with supposed "proof") that only rule violations are punished.
    But I have so many examples where this is not so.
    And if something is removed because people take offense at it. Why are posts that are obviously provoking and where answers are removed over and over again, not removed?

    I know that there is no real answer to this. Only the mods who do that know why they do that. But that's what I wanted to get rid of, because it bothers me.
    An official forum should not have such randomness. On the other hand, I'm not really active in any forum and this here is also only a phase while I have a bit time over until everything starts soon after the holidays. So I can't say if this is normal, no matter to whom the forum belongs.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just accept moderation and move on.

    I've been infracted because the word "you" (as in, "you wouldnt download a car") was interpreted as a personal attack.

    gaggle - /ˈɡaɡ(ə)l/ - noun
    A disorderly group of Asura.
    "The gaggle of Asura tried to agree on whether a phase-shifted thermonuclear energy matrix was sufficiently powerful for a device capable of heating bread"

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Wikykcat's recent PvP thread wasn't deleted, it was moved to the PvP section: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/121406/unranked-area#latest

    I think the general idea is that topics need to be a) about GW2 and b) open for discussion. A topic which is effectively one person's blog or where they say they don't want to hear from other players or object if anyone posts a different opinion are likely to get deleted because if it's not open for anyone except the topic creator to participate then for everyone else on the forum it's effectively spam.

    Posts are slightly trickier, because they need to be related to GW2 and to the original purpose of the topic. You could write the most wonderfully informative post all about how jumping puzzles work, taking the time to praise the designers to look good to Anet, giving advice on how to learn to do them, linking to guilds who can offer mesmer portals and whatever else, but if it's in a topic about PvP tournaments it's going to be deleted for being off topic.

    Or there's currently a topic about how some players experiences in World of Warcraft compare to GW2, and that's ok, but if you made a topic (or a post within that topic) that's only discussing WoW that's likely to be deleted because it's not about GW2.

    I think everyone who is on this forum (or any forum) for any length of time will have posts and topics deleted every so often, with or without warnings. It's not a big deal, as long as you don't do it so often that you end up banned.

    If you want to know why a specific post or topic was deleted and how the moderators reached that decision you'll have to contact support and discuss it with them. Both because discussing moderation is not allowed and because they're the ones who set the rules and make the decisions so they're the only ones who can give you a definite answer, the best anyone else could do is guess, which wouldn't be very helpful for you because there's no guarantee it's right.

    (I remember a while ago there was a topic about why the name T I G G E R isn't allowed in GW2. Some people guessed it's because it's 1 letter off an offensive word, others guessed it's because it's a copy-righted character, either way players were complaining that Anet's rules are way too sensitive and over the top and neither of those is a good reason to ban a name. Then someone from Anet came along and explained it's nothing to do with that - they don't allow a G on it's own to stop players putting G M in their name and scamming newbies by pretending to be staff. Which not only ended the complaining but more importantly enabled the OP to find a variant on the name they could use.)

    Danielle Aurorel, Desolation EU. Mini Collector

    "Life's a journey, not a destination."

  • Fuchslein.8639Fuchslein.8639 Member ✭✭✭

    Ah k, thought that had been deleted.

    The thing is. It is useless to write to the support. At least in my case it had no use when I was once banned although I was level 2 but said something against Anet. I was only told that the mod has decided so, period!

    But that mods do not follow their own rules and that you can't do absolutely nothing against it ... that's probably just not my mentality. But I've found anyway the whole forum absolutely does not correspond to my mentality, from therefore.

    Thanks for the answers ^^.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't think forum levels means anything, especially when it comes to moderation. I know for a fact that the posters with the highest possible level and the most badges get warnings and get posts deleted every so often. It's all about what you say in that post, not how often you're on the forum (which is all levels and badges really show).

    I admit I've only queried a moderator decision once. They didn't reverse it, but it did help me understand why the topic was deleted so I could basically re-post it but in a way that wouldn't get deleted again.

    Danielle Aurorel, Desolation EU. Mini Collector

    "Life's a journey, not a destination."

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've experienced a significant lack of consistency on these forums when it comes to rules. I have appealed multiple times to the email address that is said to be for such things and have yet to receive any replies other then the auto-generated ones that told me that my email had arrived in their system. I could go on, but will probably get sanctioned for continuing in this vein.

    Suffice to say, that the forums mods have some pre-defined structure when it comes to actions and even in that structure they have a wide degree of latitude.

    It's their sandbox. We can either play by their rules or not play at all.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Blude.6812Blude.6812 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    I've experienced a significant lack of consistency on these forums when it comes to rules. I have appealed multiple times to the email address that is said to be for such things and have yet to receive any replies other then the auto-generated ones that told me that my email had arrived in their system. I could go on, but will probably get sanctioned for continuing in this vein.

    Suffice to say, that the forums mods have some pre-defined structure when it comes to actions and even in that structure they have a wide degree of latitude.

    It's their sandbox. We can either play by their rules or not play at all.

    But the sandbox size has been know to change without any reason.

  • AliamRationem.5172AliamRationem.5172 Member ✭✭✭✭

    For a game this size, this forum is remarkably dead. I wonder if it's related?

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    For a game this size, this forum is remarkably dead. I wonder if it's related?

    Well, ideally, people are playing the game and not engaging in the forums.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AliamRationem.5172 said:
    For a game this size, this forum is remarkably dead. I wonder if it's related?

    I’ve always found it ridiculously busy and fast moving for an mmo forum. Certainly no other mmo I’ve played has a forum with this much activity or new posts popping up

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fuchslein.8639 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    A lot of his threads come off as diary/journal entries which is probably why people took issue with them.

    That said, consistency really isn’t a thing in this game in all aspects of it including in the forums.

    But isn't that what it's all about?
    People have taken offense at this. People take offense at everything, especially in forums. But a mod should decide in the end according to the rules if something really speaks against it. And if once so and once so is decided, what is the reason?

    I wasn't referring to just the players.

    He could have just moved the threads from him to Community Creations, where a lot of such threads are.
    I just saw that he has now even opened a new thread in this section and I'm really curious whether it will be removed again.

    In another thread that was removed, someone said (with supposed "proof") that only rule violations are punished.
    But I have so many examples where this is not so.

    It's highly subjective and very inconsistent.

    And if something is removed because people take offense at it. Why are posts that are obviously provoking and where answers are removed over and over again, not removed?

    I know that there is no real answer to this. Only the mods who do that know why they do that. But that's what I wanted to get rid of, because it bothers me.
    An official forum should not have such randomness. On the other hand, I'm not really active in any forum and this here is also only a phase while I have a bit time over until everything starts soon after the holidays. So I can't say if this is normal, no matter to whom the forum belongs.

    Unfortunately, it does have that randomness.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:
    Just accept moderation and move on.

    I've been infracted because the word "you" (as in, "you wouldnt download a car") was interpreted as a personal attack.

    Yep. Pretty much why I've started to try to remember to state things in 3rd person.

  • HnRkLnXqZ.1870HnRkLnXqZ.1870 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Did not expect to see this topic for such a long time. Glad it is still here and we are free to discuss about this matter.

    In my opinion, the cat's threads contribute to the health of the forum in a positive way. When people read them, they smile, blush or laugh. The majority of the forum-content is complaints & rants, suggestions and questions regarding the game. That is totally fine, but makes the board kind of a cold and sterile place. There are emotional threads as well, but very less compared to the others. I studied this phenomenon also in the guilds I was member in for the past 17 years. While those players tend to bend and sometimes slightly break the common rule-set, they usually improve the atmosphere and make the members of a community to communicate more freely. Communities which focus on silencing those individuals create an atmosphere of fear and hesitation. The members spend a lot of time with the question "is this appropriate?" and sometimes scrap a post in the last moment, in the fear of accidentally breaking any rule. Every community has their own way of dealing with this matter. There is no perfect solution, each path has chances and risks. I've seen both working.

    Personally I feel sorry, whenever I see one of the kittens threads get removed. Sometimes when I have enough time, I try to prevent this fate. Usually by engaging in the thread and trying to push the discussion into a certain direction. Mostly towards a more game-related topic, giving some special info so the thread hopefully counts as informative. It did work a few times, but for the most cases I was too slow or my efforts were too small.

    An alternative option is to try a bold post, with the focus on catching the attention of other people. The thread begins to derail into an endless discussion between 2-X people. They just quote and comment each others over and over. If such a sub-discussion is initiated, the thread often remains opened for a very long time, even if it technically became off-topic the moment that sub-discussion started. This works best when you make an example with a personal experience, it almost always triggers comments which only refer to this example and kind of ignore everything that was written before. But everyone who reads the topic for the first time, still reads the "good" part at the beginning.

    Asking a question sometimes also works, if it is related to the main-topic of the thread. But you have to be careful with this. If it goes too far, certain individuals will tell you to start a new topic instead.

    Regarding the reporting situation, things get a little more delicate. I think our lovely kitten has made a special friend or two. The speed and frequency those topics get removed/moderated is so fast, I fear there are people who instantly report that stuff on sight.

    This is one of the major reasons why the report-function ingame has such a bad reputation. If it would work 100 %, people would abuse it on players they do not like. If I just think about the hacker/cheater-accusations I collected in the Winter Wonderland, over the past years, I would be perma-banned by now ^^.

    The "I am offended by this"-strategy seems to work if there is more than one entry. This mostly goes for non-obvious accusations. We do have a couple of individuals on the forums who can write excellent English and wrap their disdain in nice words. Trying to report those may not always work. The moment there is room for interpretation, you need a little luck on both sides.

    The huge advantage and disadvantage with human-based control is the point of view. We do not make the same decision about the same situation every time. Depending on our environmental situation, there are days we are more forgiving or more restrictive. Even if there are strict rules to follow, there will always be differences. In my opinion this is a good thing. Some topics deserve a 2nd chance, although they may have violated a certain rule. A lot of discussions which started bad turned into quite helpful and informative contributions. Like those rants we frequently comment in and make suggestions about solving the problems.

    At the end of the day I am happy about the extra entertainment the forums offer. The restrictions are difficult at times, but I improved my writing and expanded my vocabulary a lot. Learned a lot of cool tricks over the past years and have meta a lot of amazing people. I do hope to meet a couple of them ingame one day, even if it is just to judge them by their taste in fashion.

    I hope this thread remains a little longer and we may get a few entries from certain other individuals as well.

  • Fuchslein.8639Fuchslein.8639 Member ✭✭✭

    @HnRkLnXqZ.1870 said:
    Did not expect to see this topic for such a long time. Glad it is still here and we are free to discuss about this matter.

    In my opinion, the cat's threads contribute to the health of the forum in a positive way. When people read them, they smile, blush or laugh. The majority of the forum-content is complaints & rants, suggestions and questions regarding the game. That is totally fine, but makes the board kind of a cold and sterile place. There are emotional threads as well, but very less compared to the others. I studied this phenomenon also in the guilds I was member in for the past 17 years. While those players tend to bend and sometimes slightly break the common rule-set, they usually improve the atmosphere and make the members of a community to communicate more freely. Communities which focus on silencing those individuals create an atmosphere of fear and hesitation. The members spend a lot of time with the question "is this appropriate?" and sometimes scrap a post in the last moment, in the fear of accidentally breaking any rule. Every community has their own way of dealing with this matter. There is no perfect solution, each path has chances and risks. I've seen both working.

    Personally I feel sorry, whenever I see one of the kittens threads get removed. Sometimes when I have enough time, I try to prevent this fate. Usually by engaging in the thread and trying to push the discussion into a certain direction. Mostly towards a more game-related topic, giving some special info so the thread hopefully counts as informative. It did work a few times, but for the most cases I was too slow or my efforts were too small.

    An alternative option is to try a bold post, with the focus on catching the attention of other people. The thread begins to derail into an endless discussion between 2-X people. They just quote and comment each others over and over. If such a sub-discussion is initiated, the thread often remains opened for a very long time, even if it technically became off-topic the moment that sub-discussion started. This works best when you make an example with a personal experience, it almost always triggers comments which only refer to this example and kind of ignore everything that was written before. But everyone who reads the topic for the first time, still reads the "good" part at the beginning.

    Asking a question sometimes also works, if it is related to the main-topic of the thread. But you have to be careful with this. If it goes too far, certain individuals will tell you to start a new topic instead.

    Regarding the reporting situation, things get a little more delicate. I think our lovely kitten has made a special friend or two. The speed and frequency those topics get removed/moderated is so fast, I fear there are people who instantly report that stuff on sight.

    This is one of the major reasons why the report-function ingame has such a bad reputation. If it would work 100 %, people would abuse it on players they do not like. If I just think about the hacker/cheater-accusations I collected in the Winter Wonderland, over the past years, I would be perma-banned by now ^^.

    The "I am offended by this"-strategy seems to work if there is more than one entry. This mostly goes for non-obvious accusations. We do have a couple of individuals on the forums who can write excellent English and wrap their disdain in nice words. Trying to report those may not always work. The moment there is room for interpretation, you need a little luck on both sides.

    The huge advantage and disadvantage with human-based control is the point of view. We do not make the same decision about the same situation every time. Depending on our environmental situation, there are days we are more forgiving or more restrictive. Even if there are strict rules to follow, there will always be differences. In my opinion this is a good thing. Some topics deserve a 2nd chance, although they may have violated a certain rule. A lot of discussions which started bad turned into quite helpful and informative contributions. Like those rants we frequently comment in and make suggestions about solving the problems.

    At the end of the day I am happy about the extra entertainment the forums offer. The restrictions are difficult at times, but I improved my writing and expanded my vocabulary a lot. Learned a lot of cool tricks over the past years and have meta a lot of amazing people. I do hope to meet a couple of them ingame one day, even if it is just to judge them by their taste in fashion.

    I hope this thread remains a little longer and we may get a few entries from certain other individuals as well.

    It's always nice to see a post like this every now and then :). Yep am also super surprised that my thread still stands.
    Because it's true that everyone thinks differently and sees things differently. I think that is the most important thing to keep in mind.

    I'm just sad that I have now read several times, and even got warning-messages to a person, that I should ignore certain people.
    I try now and then to answer anyway, but then realize again and again that turns only in circles.(Which is not bad if you like that.)
    Therefore, the tips here that simply to accept are probably the best, both for mods, as well as for certain people here in the forum.
    Which, by the way, I do not want to say that I am superior. Quite the opposite. I'm just not someone who likes to discuss long over one topic. Especially because I personally find that the forum has a certain target audience with whom it is often not worth discussing if you have a more diversified opinion. Hope I have expressed this correctly.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I tend to think of websites and forums as basically someone else's house. They let you in to hang out, maybe they even leave the door unlocked and a pot of coffee on and say you're welcome to come round whenever, but it's still their house and you have to follow their rules no matter how weird they might seem. If they say you can't ever move the cats off the furniture and if every seat has a cat you'll just have to sit on the floor, if they don't allow anyone to say 'stupid' because they think it's a swear word and they insist you try one of their rock-hard, tasteless brownies then well, you wait for the cats to move, don't say stupid and do your best to gnaw on a brownie or you find another house to meet up in. Or maybe you open up your own house for your friends where you can play by your rules.

    I've done all 3 at various points. I know of several fandoms that have multiple forums and social media groups and whatever else just because of disagreements over appropriate rules and community management (or to seperate people who can't stop rehashing arguments over trivial details like wether 'The' is part of the title or not) and it can take time for a new person to find the right one/s for them but there usually is one.

    Danielle Aurorel, Desolation EU. Mini Collector

    "Life's a journey, not a destination."

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I agree with Danikat (above) with the "their house, their rules" metaphor. My issue is with the lack of consistency within those rules. Having modded a forum before, it often feels that some here have been trained differently than others.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kharmin.7683 said:
    I agree with Danikat (above) with the "their house, their rules" metaphor. My issue is with the lack of consistency within those rules. Having modded a forum before, it often feels that some here have been trained differently than others.

    This has been my experience as well. Consistency of forum moderators is really all over the place. There are certain posters that are breaking the forum rules, either making derailing posts, off-topic posts, or straight up admitting to be trolling other users, that get no moderation at all, as those offending posts are still there. I will obviously not post them, that would be breaking the naming and shaming rule of the forums, but someone can find them around. Meanwhile, other posters get moderated immediately and with no apparent reason, or even banned outright. And if you get banned once, you will get banned again really quickly, even with minor infractions.

    It's almost as if the moderators have personal grudges, see names in reports that are past offenders, or maybe they disagree with the post itself, and infract it quickly. While other posters get more leniancy and don't get moderated at all. Even when they are actively harassing others.

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    It's almost as if the moderators have personal grudges, see names in reports that are past offenders, or maybe they disagree with the post itself, and infract it quickly. While other posters get more leniancy and don't get moderated at all. Even when they are actively harassing others.

    Even more suspicious when being moderated by the same moderator. But, what can one do? I've appealed multiple infractions and have never received a response.

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • Just something to add to the many things allready said. Forum rules are not laws that count the same for each and every situation.
    In law, justice is blind and the law is the same for everyone (or atleast should be). So circumstances are less important. In forum rules, the difference is that they exist with a specific purpose. In all moderation (also in game) the first part of moderation mostly starts with a report. Someone takes offense or is annoyed by something someone else does and reports the situation. If nobody reports it, why should a mod investigate and take action??

    On a personal note. I also see that as of late, no response is given to moderation complaints. As stated in the Forums Code of Conduct I've sent an email to [email protected] and got no response. In the past this was different. The complaint was reviewed and I had a correction (in most cases). In my last effort I got no response at all. This makes me think that the adres itself is no longer monitored. I hope the forum mods see this and investigate why this is. Perhaps the changes in staffing has caused this part of the process to go out of sight?

    Moderation is important, so is someone keeping an eye on the mods.

  • they remove stuff at a whim, I've gotten the most harmless posts removed without just cause.

    te lazla otstara.
    fingers crossed meta ~

  • Fuchslein.8639Fuchslein.8639 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2021

    @mercury ranique.2170 said:
    Just something to add to the many things allready said. Forum rules are not laws that count the same for each and every situation.
    In law, justice is blind and the law is the same for everyone (or atleast should be). So circumstances are less important. In forum rules, the difference is that they exist with a specific purpose. In all moderation (also in game) the first part of moderation mostly starts with a report. Someone takes offense or is annoyed by something someone else does and reports the situation. If nobody reports it, why should a mod investigate and take action??

    On a personal note. I also see that as of late, no response is given to moderation complaints. As stated in the Forums Code of Conduct I've sent an email to [email protected] and got no response. In the past this was different. The complaint was reviewed and I had a correction (in most cases). In my last effort I got no response at all. This makes me think that the adres itself is no longer monitored. I hope the forum mods see this and investigate why this is. Perhaps the changes in staffing has caused this part of the process to go out of sight?

    Moderation is important, so is someone keeping an eye on the mods.

    I doubt that we lack people who report others.
    I myself use the opportunity to report others when I feel unfairly treated, or see people troll or insult in threads. And I see again and again how things are deleted and others, obvious insults or trolling remain.