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just played ranked pvp dear god.

ixora.3569ixora.3569 Member ✭✭

Is there sbmm? I was legit put in a team of 4 people who had no idea what to do. It was either they were bots or just new players. ITs just not fun playing against a group of people who know what they are doing vs 4 randos wandering around like it was kitten pve. Oh the score was 25-501 yes that was the actual score.

Comments

  • Tycura.1982Tycura.1982 Member ✭✭✭✭

    That's how the cookie crumbles sometimes. You can't serious believe it doesn't happen to your opponents from time to time as well?

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭

    Season start ...

  • avey.4201avey.4201 Member ✭✭✭

    all the bots are in gold during the spam meta, stay in bronze/silver to play with humans.

  • Its Ranked so of course there's SBMM
    SBMM only works if there's anyone to matchmake against though.

    The price for not having to sit in queue for 30 minutes for 1 game is taking whatever is closest to your rating.
    Which is usually nothing even close.

    Maybe if PvP and Ranked were fun to play, there'd be more people playing it, and more competitive matches as a result.

    Ranked DuoQ 😡👉🚪
    Patch-culture is awful
    Nerfs should be reserved for extreme cases and only done in creative ways that make the game more interesting to play and watch.

  • Avatar.3568Avatar.3568 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @avey.4201 said:
    all the bots are in gold during the spam meta, stay in bronze/silver to play with humans.

    Bots are better than players confirmed

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2021

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    That's how the cookie crumbles sometimes. You can't serious believe it doesn't happen to your opponents from time to time as well?

    Some accounts do tend to get better game than others for whatever reason that is. I don't know if it has to do with date of creation, total games played, popularity or notoriety within the community mixed with reasons to throw or not throw, or something deeper. But this does seem to be the case. I've viewed it for 9 years now. The same people excel or struggle, regardless of their actual recognized skill level & potential within the veteran community. In other words, some lower quality players are always riding higher into rating than some well known very strong players who struggle to get beyond some lower rated point.

    Example: There are these two girls who have been playing with a group of us lately. They're cool gamers, good people to hang out with, but they aren't exactly strong players. In fact they are quite inexperienced and struggle mechanically in all situations. We have gone out of our way to play a lot of unranked with them and to spar with them to try and help them. I can 1v2 these girls and win 9 out of 10 times that they try me. Yet somehow, magically, one of them is bottom plat and the other is nearing p2 margins in the leaderboards right now. Yet earlier today I was gridlocked at 1400-1430 rating, with one game after another where it did not matter if I won 1v2s and stalled 1v3s all game without ever dying because my team mates were either so bad or possibly throwing, that 2 opponents could easily deal with 4 of my team mates where I was not at. I had placed 1554 out of placements and was r13 in NA after the first 3 days but then this happened, an unbreakable streak of impossible to win games.

    So the match maker expects me to be ultra stronk at 1400 rating and carry dead weight to gain any rating at all, I'm talking win 1v2s and ultimately stall 1v3s to even begin to have a chance to win these matches, but somehow these two girls are nearing p2 margins but the match maker places them so they can be carried by stacked teams into those margins? No matter how you look at that, something is all wrong with it and it proves that some accounts for whatever reasons, are given easier or more difficult matches.

    You should dip into stream link here and watch some of these ranked games I get, especially when it's lose streaking me at 1400 rating. Honestly, lately I consider dedicating my stream into investigating what's going on there, because apparently this is not happening to everyone, at least not on the level of magnitude that it happens to me. If it did, those two girls would be in the silver division, not plat 2.

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ixora.3569 said:
    Oh the score was 25-501 yes that was the actual score.

    Ah, to be new to ranked. It's... yeah. Git gud, and watch your efforts go unrewarded much of the time.

    If I'm remembering correctly, I was once on a team that won 500-5. The opponents never once fully captured a point, and managed to kill one of my teammates once.

  • Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    That's how the cookie crumbles sometimes. You can't serious believe it doesn't happen to your opponents from time to time as well?

    Some accounts do tend to get better game than others for whatever reason that is. I don't know if it has to do with date of creation, total games played, popularity or notoriety within the community mixed with reasons to throw or not throw, or something deeper. But this does seem to be the case. I've viewed it for 9 years now. The same people excel or struggle, regardless of their actual recognized skill level & potential within the veteran community. In other words, some lower quality players are always riding higher into rating than some well known very strong players who struggle to get beyond some lower rated point.

    Example: There are these two girls who have been playing with a group of us lately. They're cool gamers, good people to hang out with, but they aren't exactly strong players. In fact they are quite inexperienced and struggle mechanically in all situations. We have gone out of our way to play a lot of unranked with them and to spar with them to try and help them. I can 1v2 these girls and win 9 out of 10 times that they try me. Yet somehow, magically, one of them is bottom plat and the other is nearing p2 margins in the leaderboards right now. Yet earlier today I was gridlocked at 1400-1430 rating, with one game after another where it did not matter if I won 1v2s and stalled 1v3s all game without ever dying because my team mates were either so bad or possibly throwing, that 2 opponents could easily deal with 4 of my team mates where I was not at. I had placed 1554 out of placements and was r13 in NA after the first 3 days but then this happened, an unbreakable streak of impossible to win games.

    So the match maker expects me to be ultra stronk at 1400 rating and carry dead weight to gain any rating at all, I'm talking win 1v2s and ultimately stall 1v3s to even begin to have a chance to win these matches, but somehow these two girls are nearing p2 margins but the match maker places them so they can be carried by stacked teams into those margins? No matter how you look at that, something is all wrong with it and it proves that some accounts for whatever reasons, are given easier or more difficult matches.

    You should dip into stream link here and watch some of these ranked games I get, especially when it's lose streaking me at 1400 rating. Honestly, lately I consider dedicating my stream into investigating what's going on there, because apparently this is not happening to everyone, at least not on the level of magnitude that it happens to me. If it did, those two girls would be in the silver division, not plat 2.

    I seem to remember, looking at the matchmaker code on wiki, that total number of games played is considered as a factor, which was a bit of a 'yikes' moment.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ragnar.4257 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Tycura.1982 said:
    That's how the cookie crumbles sometimes. You can't serious believe it doesn't happen to your opponents from time to time as well?

    Some accounts do tend to get better game than others for whatever reason that is. I don't know if it has to do with date of creation, total games played, popularity or notoriety within the community mixed with reasons to throw or not throw, or something deeper. But this does seem to be the case. I've viewed it for 9 years now. The same people excel or struggle, regardless of their actual recognized skill level & potential within the veteran community. In other words, some lower quality players are always riding higher into rating than some well known very strong players who struggle to get beyond some lower rated point.

    Example: There are these two girls who have been playing with a group of us lately. They're cool gamers, good people to hang out with, but they aren't exactly strong players. In fact they are quite inexperienced and struggle mechanically in all situations. We have gone out of our way to play a lot of unranked with them and to spar with them to try and help them. I can 1v2 these girls and win 9 out of 10 times that they try me. Yet somehow, magically, one of them is bottom plat and the other is nearing p2 margins in the leaderboards right now. Yet earlier today I was gridlocked at 1400-1430 rating, with one game after another where it did not matter if I won 1v2s and stalled 1v3s all game without ever dying because my team mates were either so bad or possibly throwing, that 2 opponents could easily deal with 4 of my team mates where I was not at. I had placed 1554 out of placements and was r13 in NA after the first 3 days but then this happened, an unbreakable streak of impossible to win games.

    So the match maker expects me to be ultra stronk at 1400 rating and carry dead weight to gain any rating at all, I'm talking win 1v2s and ultimately stall 1v3s to even begin to have a chance to win these matches, but somehow these two girls are nearing p2 margins but the match maker places them so they can be carried by stacked teams into those margins? No matter how you look at that, something is all wrong with it and it proves that some accounts for whatever reasons, are given easier or more difficult matches.

    You should dip into stream link here and watch some of these ranked games I get, especially when it's lose streaking me at 1400 rating. Honestly, lately I consider dedicating my stream into investigating what's going on there, because apparently this is not happening to everyone, at least not on the level of magnitude that it happens to me. If it did, those two girls would be in the silver division, not plat 2.

    I seem to remember, looking at the matchmaker code on wiki, that total number of games played is considered as a factor, which was a bit of a 'yikes' moment.

    I think I reached the games played range to get my account cursed, and it feels like it is getting worse the more games I play, like the system expects me to carry the game alone. I am the the point where playing side node build is no longer an option since my team will always fold teamfights and skirmishes without my help, even if they outnumber the enemy. The majority of my games are kitten show, where I keep thinking that I should have taken this build or that build , but then we will be missing the one im running and at that moment the enemy team has pinpointed me as a threat.
    The whole thing is mentally exhausting at this point and feels like pissing against the wind most of the time.

  • JusticeRetroHunter.7684JusticeRetroHunter.7684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2021

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    I seem to remember, looking at the matchmaker code on wiki, that total number of games played is considered as a factor, which was a bit of a 'yikes' moment.

    I think I reached the games played range to get my account cursed, and it feels like it is getting worse the more games I play, like the system expects me to carry the game alone. I am the the point where playing side node build is no longer an option since my team will always fold teamfights and skirmishes without my help, even if they outnumber the enemy. The majority of my games are kitten show, where I keep thinking that I should have taken this build or that build , but then we will be missing the one im running and at that moment the enemy team has pinpointed me as a threat.
    The whole thing is mentally exhausting at this point and feels like pissing against the wind most of the time.

    Yes, Total Number of games, as well as your rank number (rabbit - dragon rank in levels), dishonor, guild tag, and a few other parameters are in there, to not evaluate the players in your match (That's what MMR is for) it's to decide which TEAM you are gonna play on in that match.

    There is a lot of useful information on the matchmaking wiki that players should be informed about.

    Vancho, to understand why what's happening to you isn't you being crazy, but a statistical eventuality, just check out the example below.

    The Matchmaker works in two phases, Phase 1 and Phase 2. Phase 1 decides out of the hundred or so players currently in que, which 10 are going to be in a match. It decides this looking at MMR for all these players, and then creates hypothetical team configurations to create a potential match (this is called phase 2) In Phase 2, it uses a list of parameters to determine which team players belong on and when it searches all possibilities it can make, it settles on the best one, sets it aside, and when the server pings the matchmaker the matchmaker gets a green light to initiate a match.

    So in Phase 2, what's happening here, is that the matchmaker is giving you a score based on a set of parameters that try to additionally locate your skill level. So the scoring is basically like taking a test. Imagine that this test looks something like this...

    MMR = 40% of the test
    Profession = 20% of the test
    Rank = 20% of the test
    Games played = 10% of the test
    Dishonor = 10% of the test

    The above is an oversimplification of what the matchmaker is doing, but its essentially guessing what your skill level is based on the above parameters and comparing it to another player that it has selected in the matchmaker. The higher you score, the more the matchmaker believes you are a better player in comparison to a player with a lower score.

    Actual Code

    Now Vancho, think about this for a moment.

    Let's just say you played 8000 games, and are level 400 dragon, and you are in gold 2. The Matchmaker will first attempt to find players in gold2 rating range. When it enters phase 2, where it has already chosen 9 players with a very close mmr, if you happen to have the most games played, and the highest level among the players it found a match for, it will thus score you the highest in phase 2. In the interest of self efficiency, the matchmaker will always TRY to find the AVERAGE in order to build a balanced game. Thus, you will ALWAYS be paired with the player with the lowest score, and you will always be against the players whos scores are more balanced than yours...because your score makes you an outlier among the players it has selected.

    If the average number of games played in gold 2 is 500, and average rank level is dragon (level 80), then in nearly every match you play while in gold 2, you will always be considered the outlier, and you will always have to work much harder just to get out of that range, in which these are the average numbers of games played across the matchmakers choice it made from phase 1.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    I seem to remember, looking at the matchmaker code on wiki, that total number of games played is considered as a factor, which was a bit of a 'yikes' moment.

    I think I reached the games played range to get my account cursed, and it feels like it is getting worse the more games I play, like the system expects me to carry the game alone. I am the the point where playing side node build is no longer an option since my team will always fold teamfights and skirmishes without my help, even if they outnumber the enemy. The majority of my games are kitten show, where I keep thinking that I should have taken this build or that build , but then we will be missing the one im running and at that moment the enemy team has pinpointed me as a threat.
    The whole thing is mentally exhausting at this point and feels like pissing against the wind most of the time.

    Yes, Total Number of games, as well as your rank number (rabbit - dragon rank in levels), dishonor, guild tag, and a few other parameters are in there, to not evaluate the players in your match (That's what MMR is for) it's to decide which TEAM you are gonna play on in that match.

    There is a lot of useful information on the matchmaking wiki that players should be informed about.

    Vancho, to understand why what's happening to you isn't you being crazy, but a statistical eventuality, just check out the example below.

    The Matchmaker works in two phases, Phase 1 and Phase 2. Phase 1 decides out of the hundred or so players currently in que, which 10 are going to be in a match. It decides this looking at MMR for all these players, and then creates hypothetical team configurations to create a potential match (this is called phase 2) In Phase 2, it uses a list of parameters to determine which team players belong on and when it searches all possibilities it can make, it settles on the best one, sets it aside, and when the server pings the matchmaker the matchmaker gets a green light to initiate a match.

    So in Phase 2, what's happening here, is that the matchmaker is giving you a score based on a set of parameters that try to additionally locate your skill level. So the scoring is basically like taking a test. Imagine that this test looks something like this...

    MMR = 40% of the test
    Profession = 20% of the test
    Rank = 20% of the test
    Games played = 10% of the test
    Dishonor = 10% of the test

    The above is an oversimplification of what the matchmaker is doing, but its essentially guessing what your skill level is based on the above parameters and comparing it to another player that it has selected in the matchmaker. The higher you score, the more the matchmaker believes you are a better player in comparison to a player with a lower score.

    Actual Code

    Now Vancho, think about this for a moment.

    Let's just say you played 8000 games, and are level 400 dragon, and you are in gold 2. The Matchmaker will first attempt to find players in gold2 rating range. When it enters phase 2, where it has already chosen 9 players with a very close mmr, if you happen to have the most games played, and the highest level among the players it found a match for, it will thus score you the highest in phase 2. In the interest of self efficiency, the matchmaker will always TRY to find the AVERAGE in order to build a balanced game. Thus, you will ALWAYS be paired with the player with the lowest score, and you will always be against the players whos scores are more balanced than yours...because your score makes you an outlier among the players it has selected.

    If the average number of games played in gold 2 is 500, and average rank level is dragon (level 80), then in nearly every match you play while in gold 2, you will always be considered the outlier, and you will always have to work much harder just to get out of that range, in which these are the average numbers of games played across the matchmakers choice it made from phase 1.

    Why the kitten is the game punishing me for playing it? By the explanation it seems there is not point for me to even try to go up. Even when I reach high rating I still get kitten games, what is the point of this system, to get me to stop playing the kitten.
    I even think this kitten is slipped in unranked so I can't try stuff or play meme builds for fun, cause the people are not even trying for some reason.
    I enjoy the game, and yet its system is constantly trying to kitten me over and ruin the fun. This kitten acts like real life, but it is a game it is supposed to bring me joy and entertainment not the constant struggle of existence.
    Real BRUH moment right there 5/7 TY for the info.

  • @Vancho.8750 said:

    Yes, it's unfair. Truth is that even what i pointed out in my comment, isn't even the worst part about the matchmaker. The phase 2 part of the matchmaker is poorly designed yes, but the worst part about the matchmaker is the fact that it phase 1 really doesn't work, even if phase 2 didn't exist, because of statistics.

    Essentially Rating doesn't mean anything. It's really hard to explain why...but basically, Glicko was designed for chess...which is a 1 vs 1 environment, and for good reason.

    The best way to explain why Glicko doesn't work for multiplayer games is with a very simple example, which i wrote on another thread and ill just copy paste it here too....

    Let's propose a hypothetical matchmaking scenario.

    Player Alice, Bob, Charlie and David exist and for this example lets say that...
    1. Alice is a good player (As good as Charlie)
    2. Bob is a bad player
    3. Charlie is a good player (As good as Alice)
    4. David is a bad player

    Now, they all end up in a match together. Alice is on Bob's team (A), and Charlie is on David's team (B). At the end of the game, Team A wins, and so Alice and Bob are rewarded. where as Charlie and David are punished. In this case, we can say that the Matchmaker treats Alice and Bob as being better players then Charlie and David.

    The 2nd match comes along, and this time, Alice and David are on team A, while Bob and Charlie are on team B. Team A wins, and so Alice and David are rewarded, while Bob and Charlie are punished and we can say that for this game, the matchmaker treats Alice and David as better players then Bob and Charlie. If we take a look at how these two matches add together we can deduce the following based on the matchmakers decision.

    Alice is the best player
    Bob is an average player
    David is an average player
    Charlie is the worst player

    So do you see the problem with the above deduction? Charlie is judged by the matchmaker as being the worst player, while Bob and David, who are supposed to be worse than Charlie, are labeled as better players than Charlie.

    So if you drag out this exercise on the order of many iterations, you will find that, the more games that are played, the more randomly distributed the allocation of good and bad players become, where players like David and Bob who are bad players, are lifted into this zone where they are considered average. Thus the most random assignment of rating happens to be the top of the population bell curve. In other words, The most common rating range, is statistically the most unknown and random place in the distribution of players rating. In essence, rating means nothing.

    Add the above side-effect with Phase 2's repercussions, and you get a very toxic and cyclical pattern where all players converge toward the most average rating among the entire population...Both bad AND good players.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    @JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:

    I seem to remember, looking at the matchmaker code on wiki, that total number of games played is considered as a factor, which was a bit of a 'yikes' moment.

    I think I reached the games played range to get my account cursed, and it feels like it is getting worse the more games I play, like the system expects me to carry the game alone. I am the the point where playing side node build is no longer an option since my team will always fold teamfights and skirmishes without my help, even if they outnumber the enemy. The majority of my games are kitten show, where I keep thinking that I should have taken this build or that build , but then we will be missing the one im running and at that moment the enemy team has pinpointed me as a threat.
    The whole thing is mentally exhausting at this point and feels like pissing against the wind most of the time.

    Yes, Total Number of games, as well as your rank number (rabbit - dragon rank in levels), dishonor, guild tag, and a few other parameters are in there, to not evaluate the players in your match (That's what MMR is for) it's to decide which TEAM you are gonna play on in that match.

    There is a lot of useful information on the matchmaking wiki that players should be informed about.

    Vancho, to understand why what's happening to you isn't you being crazy, but a statistical eventuality, just check out the example below.

    The Matchmaker works in two phases, Phase 1 and Phase 2. Phase 1 decides out of the hundred or so players currently in que, which 10 are going to be in a match. It decides this looking at MMR for all these players, and then creates hypothetical team configurations to create a potential match (this is called phase 2) In Phase 2, it uses a list of parameters to determine which team players belong on and when it searches all possibilities it can make, it settles on the best one, sets it aside, and when the server pings the matchmaker the matchmaker gets a green light to initiate a match.

    So in Phase 2, what's happening here, is that the matchmaker is giving you a score based on a set of parameters that try to additionally locate your skill level. So the scoring is basically like taking a test. Imagine that this test looks something like this...

    MMR = 40% of the test
    Profession = 20% of the test
    Rank = 20% of the test
    Games played = 10% of the test
    Dishonor = 10% of the test

    The above is an oversimplification of what the matchmaker is doing, but its essentially guessing what your skill level is based on the above parameters and comparing it to another player that it has selected in the matchmaker. The higher you score, the more the matchmaker believes you are a better player in comparison to a player with a lower score.

    Actual Code

    Now Vancho, think about this for a moment.

    Let's just say you played 8000 games, and are level 400 dragon, and you are in gold 2. The Matchmaker will first attempt to find players in gold2 rating range. When it enters phase 2, where it has already chosen 9 players with a very close mmr, if you happen to have the most games played, and the highest level among the players it found a match for, it will thus score you the highest in phase 2. In the interest of self efficiency, the matchmaker will always TRY to find the AVERAGE in order to build a balanced game. Thus, you will ALWAYS be paired with the player with the lowest score, and you will always be against the players whos scores are more balanced than yours...because your score makes you an outlier among the players it has selected.

    If the average number of games played in gold 2 is 500, and average rank level is dragon (level 80), then in nearly every match you play while in gold 2, you will always be considered the outlier, and you will always have to work much harder just to get out of that range, in which these are the average numbers of games played across the matchmakers choice it made from phase 1.

    Why the kitten is the game punishing me for playing it?

    Good question. You should see what it's like to queue on an account with 20,000+ games played. Here is what happens:

    • There are two games being formed in the queue
    • 1800/1800/1600/1500/1500 vs. 1600/1600/1500/1500/empty. Other game is 1550/1550/1500/1490/1480 vs. 1550/1550/1500/1490/empty
    • There are 2 extra guys floating around in the queue still to be placed. One player is 1495 with 2000 games played, the other is 1495 with 20000 games played. It will take the 1495 with 20000 games played and throw him into that first match against the 1800 duo almost every time, and grant the easy match to the 1495 with only 2000 games played almost every time.

    This is a serious problem in year 9 for some pretty big reasons that I"m not going to go all into right now.

    I even think this kitten is slipped in unranked so I can't try stuff or play meme builds for fun, cause the people are not even trying for some reason.

    ^ That is just account MMR effecting you. Regardless of how bad you are on one class, it will still place you as the highest MMR achieved on your main. Arenanet really should do class based MMR for unranked rather than account based MMR, for the sake of practice. No one would abuse it in unranked. People don't care to exploit in anything in unranked.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So the conclusion is: Trevor played too much GW2 and is now punished for it by the game as he has to carry the unexperienced ones.

    Great stuff, if you want to get away from the game.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2021

    make yours uniq biuld, NOT meta. Set runes, amulet as you want, but not how to suggest meta.
    After some loses you will drop in low silver/bronze. Here more fun, less bots.
    I now use condi spellbreaker with swords, get fun and less bots compared whit gold
    or play unranked .. on unranked people - but to strong for me.

    want solid balance ? - play chess.

  • Khalisto.5780Khalisto.5780 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @avey.4201 said:
    all the bots are in gold during the spam meta, stay in bronze/silver to play with humans.

    If you actually add those bots to your friendlist you'll see they are all silver 3