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Add in Daily, Weekly, and Monthly Vendors into WvW

Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

This was brought up in a separate thread(https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/121386/better-match-rewards-after-finishing-diamond-skirmish-rewards-repeatable#latest), but it deserves to be in its own thread.

People want better rewards for playing WvW. There is a concern that adding anything that is passive will encourage AFK farmers at spawn, and there is concern that if you add anything for taking an objective that it would just encourage rotating capture farms.

As a happy middle ground I proposed in that thread and am putting more prominently in its own thread for Dev visibility is that we add in Daily, Weekly, and Monthly Vendors at spawn.

Add a Daily trader that sells things in exchange for Gifts of Battle.:

  • 25 Skirmish Tickets for 1 GoB
  • 50 Memories of Battle for 1 GoB
  • 1 Mystic Coins for 1 GoB
  • 1 Mystic Clovers for 1 GoB.

Making it a Daily trader limits any shock to the market. Without boosters for reward track gain this would take about 8 hours to get, 4 with boosters. Nice little way to gain more Clovers and Coins for Legendary Crafting, and if you need Tickets and MoB for the Skirmish Vendor there are some extra available per day.

Add a Weekly trader that accepts either of the Emblems, 1 tab per Emblem:

Per Tab:

  • 50 Skirmish Tickets for 1 Emblem
  • 100 Memories of Battle for 1 Emblem
  • 2 Mystic Coins for 1 Emblem
  • 2 Mystic Clovers for 1 Emblem

Same deal as with the Daily, locking this to a weekly vendor limits any shock from the people who have been acquiring large stacks.

Add in a Monthly Trader that sells thing in Exchange for 10 Gifts of Battle or 5 of one of the Emblems.

Only one tab however. You are limited to 4 purchases from the tab per Month.

  • 250 Skirmish Tickets Per 10 GoBs or 5 Emblems
  • 500 Memories of Battle for 10 GoB or 5 Emblems
  • 20 Mystic Coins for 10 GoB or 5 Emblems
  • 20 Mystic Clovers for 10 GoB or 5 Emblems

This is more of a bone to throw to those that have acquired large stacks of GoBs or Emblems as a means of slowly off loading them, but also structured to limit any shock to the market. For the Monthly vendor there should be only one tab, so each of the 4 items are listed three times, each purchased with one of three currencies (GoBs or Emblems). By this I mean you have three different ways to buy each of the four type of purchase options. I.E. once 20 Mystic Coins are purchased with 10 Gifts of Battle they then cannot be purchased with 5 Emblems of either type.

I originally suggested 2 Coins and clovers in the Daily trader and 4 on the Weekly trader, but in addition to a Monthly trader, which I feel is also needed, would result in too many coins and clovers.

This gives some steady rewards for those that actively play the game mode, and rewards those that play it well in regards to acquire more Emblems than Gifts of Battle.

Comments

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021

    1 Mystic Clover for 1 GoB is rather stingy considering you have to be very high ranked, playing WvW diligently, and running boosters to even complete it in one day. The going rate for a Mystic Clover is around 8g (cost-wise) and in fractals you can purchase 2 per day on top of whatever else drops including any bonus drops from Fractal titles. So the major benefactor would be those who have been hoarding GoB. On grey market legendary sales (i.e. not on TP) I believe GoB is several hundred gold.
    --> Note less than 10% of players enrolled on GW2efficiency play more than 3 hours a day https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/statistics.playtimePerDay

    It's also important to distinguish between emblems , because the 100 caps is much harder than 100 kills especially at primetime. There's a legitimate concern people will not defend anything if emblems are wanted and ktrain which already happens in offhours. By adding a skirmish ticket faucet, skirmish tickets devalue so I'm not so sure about that. Memories of battle would make sense though (many older rewards balanced around a much lower value than it is currently) and I believe mystic clovers to be healthier overall for the economy rather than a blanket increase in mystic coins given out.

    Maybe instead of monthly it should be on every relink (so bi-monthly) so that maintenance of systems is simpler. Thematically it would make sense, "memories of battle" ... would be throwing a bone to WvW players in the sense that they are not accountbound so the gold gain is still going to be lower than PvE anyway.

    I believe I have mentioned before instead of giving stuff away the emblems should be incorporated into recipes that WvW players will use, for sharpening stone stations or whatnot. That is a far more effective way to reward WvW players because you would not ROI in PVE with it. Net income is defined as income after expenses, so decreasing expenses incurred would result in a similar net effect.

    Similarly, there are rewards that are essentially PVE only, such as easily accessible ascended backpieces. There is no mist backpiece yet ingame (Warcry doesn't count due to the massive timegate) and there is no way to get Eternal Ice shards into a backpiece. Likewise, there's 32 slot bags craftable via Eitrite Ingot but there's no 32 slot siegemaster satchel which would be a trivial addition to the game. Even something as simple as adding the ascended foods' ingredients into synthesizers would be a step forward.

    As far as addressing "rotating capture farms" as you call it, there should be incentive to capture Tier 3 structures (i.e. not camps) when they are defended. These would be nearly impossible to ktrain due to the time investment for T3-ing. If both sides have even numbers (i.e. not outnumbered for either side engaging) there should be a minor amount of memories of battle or something similar rewarded on capture (or for successfully defending by actively killing players contesting the ring and/or resurrecting the lord as opposed to repairing walls) per skirmish which limits the k-train potential. A QoL change pivoting off this would be not enabling the use of EWP (emergency waypoint) by trolls when the keeps aren't contested.

    P.S. Ultimately there's still an accessibility problem in that we have had WvW mastery creep without any reduction in the required ranks to attain max masteries in WvW. Given a typical repeatable track has 2 Mystic Clovers in it, I would say a bi-monthly reward system could include Kegs of WXP (25K = 5 WvW ranks) and WvW potions which would be far more universal and assist newer or more casual players trying to obtain Monk runes for example.


    The way I see it, instead of just giving stuff out there should be a look at what sort of resources a person needs to be competitive in WvW.
    Utility - still not addressed fully
    Food - addressed partly by ascended food update but the ingredients still require purchase off TP or PVE
    Siege - partly addressed by Skirmish chests and portable provisioner , guild siege could be cheaper however (guild golems also could use a supply cost rebalance as mentioned in earlier threads)
    Weapons - ascended from the vendor for skirmish tickets and such : noting that minstrel is a stat select option
    Armor - largely addressed by Warlord armor boxes and reward tracks, ascended from the vendor for skirmish tickets and such noting that minstrel is a stat select option
    Trinkets - addressed by Mist trinkets (Mist Band, Mist Talisman, Mist Pendant) as well as Conflux which was a notable addition in 2020
    Backpiece - while level 78 backpieces have an infusion slot, this is partly addressed by Warbringer : there could be an additional avenue for ascended backpieces
    Sigils - never were an issue
    Runes other than scholar - requires reward track completions for monk runes ; testimonies of heroics cover Durability runes
    Additional Inventory space if you are carrying siege/extra armor/weapons/trinkets/food/utility - essentially not addressed , I have purchased templates as a stopgap measure in addition to making larger bags : there's a financial incentive to remain in this state of affairs
    Tactics - partly addressed by Skirmish chests
    Guild levels for claiming - this is a macroeconomic problem rather than at the player level , it rewards larger guilds more regardless of quality due to a larger pool of players
    WvW +5 infusions - remain a problem if you are min-maxing because they require separate infusions for fractals and templates , there's a financial incentive for Arenanet to keep these separate from agony infusions so that players buy templates I think


    Statistically speaking , off GW2efficiency :

    • top 1% of players enrolled is 4,365 WvW rank , while the 90th percentile / top 10% number is 744 WvW ranks which is too low to max masteries
    • top 1% of players enrolled have 12,774 skirmish tickets , 90th percentile / top 10% is 1,026 skirmish tickets
    • top 1% of players enrolled have 47,450 badges of honor / top 10% is 8,389 badges
    • top 1% of players enrolled have 9,765 testimonies of heroics (similarly , 1,471 proof of heroics)
    • top 1% of players enrolled hoarded 1,417 skirmish chests
    • top 1% of players enrolled have hoarded 723 WvW potions , meaning reward track rewards should be made with this in mind
    • top 1% of players enrolled have 19 Gift of Battle , which increases to 55 for top 1% of 4K hour players ( https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/statistics.giftsOfBattle )
    • top 1% of players enrolled has 6 of the 32 slot bags across their entire account ; for top 10% of 4K+ hour players it's 2 of the 32 slot bags
  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am not disagreeing on the conversion rate, its more of I am aware that adding in a way to get MCs from GoBs can quickly crash the MC market if people who hoard them but do not use GW2efficiency ( o/ ) dump their holdings.

    This is really a template to build the discussion on. As I said in the post I initially was in favor of a 2 MC per GoB conversion, but I am aware of people who do hoard them and I do not want to inject something into the game that on its face seems reasonable only to find a very adverse effect to happen.

    Skirmish Chest do a decent job of giving you things like food, siege, testimonies, and badges. There are reward tracks for exotic weapons and armor. The mode does its job for giving you want you need to play it, but it doesn't do a good job of making it rewarding.

    I agree that the emblems are not generally the same effort to attain, but there are those that don't zerg and stick to roaming who will end up with more captures than kills. It is important to make sure both play styles are represented in the rewards. Still that does not preclude one Emblem having a better conversion rate than the other.

    I'm also not against adding in other rewards like Utility buffs, WvW +9 stat infusions, or something else of value.

    As far as account bound rewards versus non account bound awards (Clovers vs Coins for example), the mode needs more rewards of both types. Grant it, if these do get added to the game without Mystic Coins as an option but with Mystic Clovers as an option (or vice versa) I would still be happy.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021

    The point of the gw2efficiency references is actual data. It isn't meant to summarize all of the playerbase.

    A bi-monthly vendor seems more reasonable than a weekly one ; a utility recipe using emblems would be far more usable than a weekly vendor for people that play WvW competitively. That especially holds true for new support players that need to foot the bill for monk runes, minstrel armor/weapons/trinkets which isn't used in PVE generally, and food/utility which is more niche than power food and utility ( https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Maintenance_Oil ) .
    If you're a new player on a power build you can use essentially free food (because steak is dropped often at spawn points and even in PVE) if you're broke and fruitcakes/potent sharpening stone.

    Emblems rewarded on captures statistically have lower amounts and are timegated by Righteous indignation. This is true even if you look at the amount of people that completed either emblem one time since their introduction (it's about 64K vs 40K which is a factor of over 1.5X).

    I also forgot to mention karka potion, which should outright be disabled in WvW.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149
    The GoB track is a reward track, not part of the skirmish track.

    Regardless of WvW rank, it progresses at the same speed.

    Rank wouldn’t effect it.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:
    @Infusion.7149
    The GoB track is a reward track, not part of the skirmish track.

    Regardless of WvW rank, it progresses at the same speed.

    Rank wouldn’t effect it.

    Rank affects skirmish tracks which indirectly affects your reward track "per pip"

    see https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Instant_Reward_Track_Progress

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I just love this idea and fully support it! :+1:

  • XerMeLL.6042XerMeLL.6042 Member ✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    it should be the vice versa also. like gob to tickets, etc

  • Gorani.7205Gorani.7205 Member ✭✭✭

    I like the idea. It has been floating around the forum for a few years now and should be brought back into consideration for the Devs.
    I don't think that there should be such a big focus on GoB conversion though. Although die hard WvW players might have switched on that track all the time, there are a lot of reasons to run other tracks as well, even for WvW focused players (e.g. getting some Living World stuff you would have to play open world metas a lot; getting (exotic) armour with all available stats for you alternate characters, e.g. a Condi & a Power set; getting dungeon currency for legendary crafting etc.).
    Conversion numbers from the OP are highly debatable, IMO and I would rate getting a GoB higher in comparison to Emblems.
    If implemented I don't think that there should be a monthly trader. Add a daily and a weekly trader (tech in place already) and scale down the rewards (e.g. daily trader sells stuff for badges; weekly trader has a GoB and an Emblem tab). This way WvW players can gain stuff at a slow pace over many months (e.g. I would run out if current emblems in around five months, if I could spend one each week ... not counting new emblems I gain).

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gorani.7205 said:
    I like the idea. It has been floating around the forum for a few years now and should be brought back into consideration for the Devs.
    I don't think that there should be such a big focus on GoB conversion though. Although die hard WvW players might have switched on that track all the time, there are a lot of reasons to run other tracks as well, even for WvW focused players (e.g. getting some Living World stuff you would have to play open world metas a lot; getting (exotic) armour with all available stats for you alternate characters, e.g. a Condi & a Power set; getting dungeon currency for legendary crafting etc.).
    Conversion numbers from the OP are highly debatable, IMO and I would rate getting a GoB higher in comparison to Emblems.
    If implemented I don't think that there should be a monthly trader. Add a daily and a weekly trader (tech in place already) and scale down the rewards (e.g. daily trader sells stuff for badges; weekly trader has a GoB and an Emblem tab). This way WvW players can gain stuff at a slow pace over many months (e.g. I would run out if current emblems in around five months, if I could spend one each week ... not counting new emblems I gain).

    Badges have a gold sink and can be used to get siege. Not really needed in a daily trader, but I wouldn't be against them having their own tab.

    I mentioned GoBs and Emblems because I know they pile up in the banks of 100% WvW players.

    You can sell a GoB on the gray market as part of a Gift of Mastery. Nothing against the game rules, just risky unless you trust the person.

    But that requires gifts of exploration and several other account bound mats and spirit shards, all with their own worth.

    The conversion rate is less important to the discussion than the presence of such traders and giving a sink for things pile up over time (more for some people, less for others). Not that I would say no to a higher rate, but I am cautious about shocking the MC market. Their prices would go down sure, but I don't think we want them to plummet.

    I think things like Coins and clovers should be there, simply to make WvW more rewarding, but also to bring another Coin stream to the mode.

    PvE and PvP both have better sources of Mystic Coins. Now we should be playing all the game modes in practice, but in reality we don't. Thus why I suggest what I do.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    Does PvP really have a better source of Mystic Coins though if you don't do ATs and regularly place in top 8?
    Assuming your match is around 10-12 minutes each with a few minutes wait it's roughly an hour for presumably a few mystic coins at best. There's none in the PvP league (akin to WvW skirmish rewards but per season) or reward tracks that are shared with WvW. What PvP does have is better liquidity and near zero investment cost once you have wanted runes and sigils unlocked.

    I play all modes and I have to say that leyline anomaly and fractals are the best source.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Does PvP really have a better source of Mystic Coins though if you don't do ATs and regularly place in top 8?
    Assuming your match is around 10-12 minutes each with a few minutes wait it's roughly an hour for presumably a few mystic coins at best. There's none in the PvP league (akin to WvW skirmish rewards but per season) or reward tracks that are shared with WvW. What PvP does have is better liquidity and near zero investment cost once you have wanted runes and sigils unlocked.

    I play all modes and I have to say that leyline anomaly and fractals are the best source.

    Leyline is hands down the best source next to daily login for the effort involved.