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unhappy mac player - [Merged]

BnooMaGoo.5690BnooMaGoo.5690 Member ✭✭✭
edited January 11, 2021 in Account & Technical Support

I've been playing for almost 6 years.
I can continue possibly if I go through Nvidia meaning I can play one hour a day for free or I can pay another amount to buy a membership.
Not sure what I will be doing.
You can blame Apple & there might me some truth to it but that's between the businesses.
Where does it leave the player?

Koda the judge & kodan the jury

<13456

Comments

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2021

    It would seem in the Mac users thread that after February, if you play in a Mac, you’ll need a new computer.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/121605/an-update-on-mac-support-for-guild-wars-2

    Am I reading that correctly?

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Pretty much.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    There's nothing stopping you from installing a different OS or running it virtualized (via cloud services or in VMs with pass though). This is a cost/benefit analysis on their part due to the shift from Intel to Apple in-house CPUs for some of their future products.

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201468
    https://www.vmware.com/products/fusion.html
    https://www.parallels.com/products/desktop/

    edit: frankly they're being overly generous. Mac players can request refunds for client or gem store purchases through the customer support portal. We will be able to refund purchases within a 30 day window of the refund request.

    Great point infusion.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Shadowmoon.7986Shadowmoon.7986 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    edit: frankly they're being overly generous. Mac players can request refunds for client or gem store purchases through the customer support portal. We will be able to refund purchases within a 30 day window of the refund request.

    That is only eligible for people who bought the game in the past month. While i understand allowing refunds to mac users who have been playing a mmo for year would be ridiculous, imagine if you bought this game in November and just learned it is getting bricked after 3 months of play.

  • lokh.2695lokh.2695 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    edit: frankly they're being overly generous. Mac players can request refunds for client or gem store purchases through the customer support portal. We will be able to refund purchases within a 30 day window of the refund request.

    That is only eligible for people who bought the game in the past month. While i understand allowing refunds to mac users who have been playing a mmo for year would be ridiculous, imagine if you bought this game in November and just learned it is getting bricked after 3 months of play.

    Well, that's just bad luck then and the person would have to hope for the support team having some wiggle space for such situations. But the line needs to be drawn at some point, 30 days is reasonable.

    Why bother, just delete the official Forum.

  • Super Hayes.6890Super Hayes.6890 Member ✭✭✭✭

    30 days is reasonable and other players have stated above that there is a workaround. I'm not referring to my suggestion to convert to PC though it would work.

    The next time you get angry at someone try walking a mile in their shoes. After that, who cares! You're a mile away and you have their shoes! -Someone with more awesome quotes than me

  • virtual windows os on local machine, virtual windows through some streaming software like shadow or geforce now, new computer. those are the options for mac users that i can think of if they want to keep playing. honestly for mac users they should either have another pc or access to some windows environment if they want to play video games. My wife used to have a mac and her solution for gaming was own a second computer that can have the fun while using the mac to do the work. now she just has one good pc that can do that work and have the fun.

  • Shadowmoon.7986Shadowmoon.7986 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lokh.2695 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    edit: frankly they're being overly generous. Mac players can request refunds for client or gem store purchases through the customer support portal. We will be able to refund purchases within a 30 day window of the refund request.

    That is only eligible for people who bought the game in the past month. While i understand allowing refunds to mac users who have been playing a mmo for year would be ridiculous, imagine if you bought this game in November and just learned it is getting bricked after 3 months of play.

    Well, that's just bad luck then and the person would have to hope for the support team having some wiggle space for such situations. But the line needs to be drawn at some point, 30 days is reasonable.

    Find it strange that they will issue refunds for purchase up to 6 months for people banned for exploits, but only 1 month for those just having the wrong type of computer. That what I would call unreasonable.
    Note: I got the 6 months number from self reports on reddit, not personal experience. Seems like standard practice ever since the snowflake exploit back in 2012. My guess to avoid charge back fees.

  • Guess I need to go buy a windows license for my macbook so I can play when traveling. Can I get a gemstore reimbursement for the cost of that?

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    For the time being, Mac users can still play Guild Wars 2 using the Nvidia GeForce Now service while streaming over the Internet. Moreover, we are interested in feedback from all of our players about such services.

    Feedback's pretty simple:
    1. Input lag is manageable as long as you're close to the data centers.
    2. When the game would normally drop frames (rotating the screen quickly in the middle of a busy WvW battle, for instance) you tend to get massive tearing.
    3. Anet constantly locks your account due to IP address changes.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021

    @Super Hayes.6890 said:
    I always avoided Macs anyway because I like building my PC's from scratch. Still, seems odd to me that Apple wouldn't want to provide some support for OpenGL as I'm sure a lot of their users are gamers.

    The same issue exists on Windows PC's as well although are far more forgiving.. take a look back at some older PC games for example and you'll find a bunch that either have a lot of issues running on modern tech or straight up don't work at all anymore due to some dead component that is no longer a part of modern PC hardware or some old software that is no longer used and supported etc.
    Off the top of my head Black and White comes to mind.. getting that running on a modern computer/OS is an absolute nightmare.

    It's a far more common issue on MAC's though for sure.. those things are just not built for gaming.

  • nykur.2154nykur.2154 Member ✭✭

    I'm not surprised to see this news. The Mac version of GW2 is abysmal. GeForce Now or some kind of Windows install is certainly the way to go.

  • @Randulf.7614 said:
    From Feb 18th you can use GeForce Now instead if on a Mac

    If you are able to. My bandwidth isn't high enough according to what Geoforce recommend. So that sucks.

  • @killerkram.5129 said:
    virtual windows os on local machine, virtual windows through some streaming software like shadow or geforce now, new computer. those are the options for mac users that i can think of if they want to keep playing. honestly for mac users they should either have another pc or access to some windows environment if they want to play video games. My wife used to have a mac and her solution for gaming was own a second computer that can have the fun while using the mac to do the work. now she just has one good pc that can do that work and have the fun.

    Not everyone can afford to own two computers.....

  • Taylan.2187Taylan.2187 Member ✭✭✭

    If you were playing on a MacBook of some kind, you could possibly buy a second-hand ThinkPad T530 or so for a couple hundred bucks. Even second-hand ThinkPads usually last many years. Won't give you the greatest graphics but if you were already playing on a type of laptop then you can probably endure that.

    If you bought an expensive Mac of some sort and aren't so rich that you can just buy a good PC, then that's a pretty sad situation. I guess you could try to dual-boot Windows but not sure if GW2 works well (or at all) on MS Windows running on Apple hardware?

    This is typical Apple though: "we do our own cool thing and don't give a kitten about compatibility." If I ended up in a situation like this I'd reconsider once more whether I want to support a company like Apple.

  • nopinopa.4861nopinopa.4861 Member ✭✭
    edited January 8, 2021

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:
    imagine if you bought this game in November and just learned it is getting bricked after 3 months of play.

    actually, doesn't feel better after only a year of playing and 3/4 of a year of playing the full version :<

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If you have an Intel Mac running OS 10.x, I'd start by dusting off the old PlayOnMac scripts before you try to buy stuff to play a ten-year-old game.

  • reapex.8546reapex.8546 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:

    @lokh.2695 said:

    @Shadowmoon.7986 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    edit: frankly they're being overly generous. Mac players can request refunds for client or gem store purchases through the customer support portal. We will be able to refund purchases within a 30 day window of the refund request.

    That is only eligible for people who bought the game in the past month. While i understand allowing refunds to mac users who have been playing a mmo for year would be ridiculous, imagine if you bought this game in November and just learned it is getting bricked after 3 months of play.

    Well, that's just bad luck then and the person would have to hope for the support team having some wiggle space for such situations. But the line needs to be drawn at some point, 30 days is reasonable.

    Find it strange that they will issue refunds for purchase up to 6 months for people banned for exploits, but only 1 month for those just having the wrong type of computer. That what I would call unreasonable.
    Note: I got the 6 months number from self reports on reddit, not personal experience. Seems like standard practice ever since the snowflake exploit back in 2012. My guess to avoid charge back fees.

    Probably because the number of people ban is way less to the number of people that are using the Mac Client.

  • Bhima.9518Bhima.9518 Member ✭✭

    Arenanet should seriously just port GW2 to Stadia. Heck, it would take next to nothing as it is already PC based, and then all the mac players can hop right back on without missing a beat--plus they don't have to wait to download updates anymore and can even play on their iPad.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    @Halandir.3609 said:
    Sure it sucks but don't blame Anet - This was the result of an Apple decision!
    Streaming might do it but that could be a budget problem - Emulation (virtualbox/wine) just won't cut it for laptop mac's.
    Nice of Anet to offer refunds when it was Apple that screwed their users.

    Virtualization has come a long way. Parallels desktop has DirectX 9 and DirectX 11 support.

    Even on Linux you can play GW2 as fast as Windows more or less with dxvk.

  • nykur.2154nykur.2154 Member ✭✭

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    I'm not surprised to see them say that. Elder Scrolls Online announced much the same back in November, although they said they will keep supporting old Macs for a while if there's enough users (maybe they have more Mac players?)

    Not sure how the Mac playerbase is, but ZOS actually put in the effort to make a MoltenVK client for macOS so ESO actually runs quite well on the platform, and they are now stopping because they don't want to get it working on Apple Silicon. GW2's Mac client never ran well and is just a slapped together WINE wrapper, so I personally wasn't surprised to hear ArenaNet will discontinue it.

  • loseridoit.2756loseridoit.2756 Member ✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    @nykur.2154 said:

    @Danikat.8537 said:
    I'm not surprised to see them say that. Elder Scrolls Online announced much the same back in November, although they said they will keep supporting old Macs for a while if there's enough users (maybe they have more Mac players?)

    Not sure how the Mac playerbase is, but ZOS actually put in the effort to make a MoltenVK client for macOS so ESO actually runs quite well on the platform, and they are now stopping because they don't want to get it working on Apple Silicon. GW2's Mac client never ran well and is just a slapped together WINE wrapper, so I personally wasn't surprised to hear ArenaNet will discontinue it.

    Oi. Do not disparage slapping together the WINE wrapper. Valve, Crossover, Collabora, linux community has turn windows API into a portable library. The wrapper is practically native in both performance and feature set. Linux players probably have a better GW2 experience than many Windows players.

    Arenanet choosed a crappy WINE fork called Cider maintained by Nvidia (formally Transgaming). Arenanet loses the years and years of Q/A Crossover devoted into WINE.

    Mac Port suffers from two issues: Crappy Wine Fork and Apple under platform investment.

  • Touchme.1097Touchme.1097 Member ✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    Will Bootcamp allow MAC users to continue playing the game using the Windows client or not?
    Looking at GeForce Now I see no reason to buy a new computer anymore, it's ridiculous how gaming companies have kept using low rendering technology for years without investing money into more profitable and better quality alternatives, easy money I suppose...

  • Vangalter.5210Vangalter.5210 Member ✭✭
    edited January 11, 2021

    So here's the thing, Apple's M-Series silicon is insanely good, GW2 performs decently under TWO layers of emulation: Rosetta2+Anet's, and this is the WORST silicon Apple is ever going to make for Macs.

    There's 2 posibilites: 1) Apple drops support for OGL in a macOS update or 2) Apple drops support for OGL in newer M-Series silicon.
    For (1), i understand, the game hasn't been updated DX9 for windows, i dont expect it to be updated to Metal2 for the much smaller player base on Mac, i get it, but why not wait for the WWDC when it happens and announce it then? It's not like one and a half months is a long time; there's like 3-4 months between macOS dev beta and public release.

    For (2) is something similar; if it's dropped on the new architectures, i get it, you want consistency and if it doesnt work on one Mac, it shouldnt work in any bc it could confuse costumers, fine; but we don't know that and same as the previous option, it can be checked before release and communicate it when it happens.

    As far as i know, and apologies if im wildly oversimplifying, Anet just uses a wine wrapper for the Mac client, right? So it should be too difficult to just let continue to be for the time being since updates don't requiere a port to macOS. Or maybe they could delete the .dmg installer from the server and maybe block base game files from being downloaded from the Mac client and only allow updates to already-installed macs that are proven to work already? - this is probably too much hassle for the ROI it would produce, but still. :(

    Or is it that maybe i missed the point? Maybe it's bc of those OGL issues they mention?

    This is my favourite game of all time and now i wont be able to play it if it becomes a subscription-based game if i have to rent a computer just for it. :/

  • They're dropping it because Apple is making it impossible to code cross platform for developers.

    I thought Universal2 was there to make it easier.

    They're moving to proprietary chips and an entirely different architecture that current code doesn't work on well,

    The game currently runs fine under Rosetta2

    Apple is not known for supporting their older systems

    Looks at 2013 Macs on macOS 11.1

    And they're not about to code a new client from scratch just to accomodate Apple's stuff

    Yeah, i understand that, i mentioned it in the post. Regardless, isnt it a wine wrapper anyway? And i'm not asking for them to build a new client, im asking for them to keep using it until option (1) or (2) happen.

    Sure it kinda still works now, but one new Apple chip later andthe support for the current OS is gone.

    The option (1) of what could happen, yes, but why not maintain it until then?

    Apple is dead set on making developer's lives harder with the decision they made

    I mean, not really? They've been building up Swift for like half a decade and it's great for coding. Open source, too. And Catalyst helps being multiplatform.

    that means double the work for every update of GW2

    Again, thought it was a wine wrapper so it shouldnt require much maintenance if any at all >.< (please correct me if im wrong)

    Linux at least is bridging the gap between Windows and Linux. Apple is widening it.

    M$ has been trying for years to build ARM machines and native ARM windows. Linux has a huge technological investment in ARM as well. But this is besides the point.

  • Healix.5819Healix.5819 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The original Mac client was a Cider wrapper. The newer Mac client is native and was created by pulling old parts from GW1, making it obsolete from the start and only a matter of time.

  • @Veprovina.4876 said:
    They're dropping it because Apple is making it impossible to code cross platform for developers. They're moving to proprietary chips and an entirely different architecture that current code doesn't work on well, and in the future might not even work, especially because Apple is not known for supporting their older systems. And they're not about to code a new client from scratch just to accomodate Apple's stuff. Sure it kinda still works now, but one new Apple chip later andthe support for the current OS is gone. Probably a few other reasons but, that's the "Apple way".

    It's the same why most developers don't code their games for Linux. First, there's like, no market share for them, Apple maybe, but not gaming related so not much market there. And second, there's a lot of effort involved into coding, and maintaining 2-3 different clients. It's not like this is a single player game where you code once, publish and maybe update a few times before you forget about it, the updates need to be constant. And since Apple is dead set on making developer's lives harder with the decision they made - that means double the work for every update of GW2. Linux at least is bridging the gap between Windows and Linux. Apple is widening it.

    Your assumptions are full of flaws and one in particular is just a myth: "> It's the same why most developers don't code their games for Linux. First, there's like, no market share for them". The current market on apple devices is currently growing and a lot of people use Linux, but hey...There are always people like you who don't know and fuel the stereotype where only Windows deserve the whole gaming market cake. You are not considering gaming companies just don't want to invest in improving the quality of their products anymore. There are better alternatives than OpenGL, go and read them.

  • You know what this reminds me of? That Apple Switch Ad parody that the founders of Roosterteeth did back when they were still Drunk Gamers. Good kitten man, miss those days.

    Hate Is Fuel.

  • asterix.9614asterix.9614 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    I just use mac for uni work, apart from that I know it's kitten at everything else, windows all the way. Anyway pretty sure you can buy cheap setups to run GW2 that exceeds the current macs. Saying that I play GW2 casually but I would be extremely sad if I couldn't play it anymore, all the friends mac users have made and their progressions, mac is kitten kitten.

  • asterix.9614asterix.9614 Member ✭✭✭

    @Touchme.1097 said:
    Will Bootcamp allow MAC users to continue playing the game using the Windows client or not?
    Looking at GeForce Now I see no reason to buy a new computer anymore, it's ridiculous how gaming companies have kept using low rendering technology for years without investing money into more profitable and better quality alternatives, easy money I suppose...

    Anet doesn't have Blizzard money so calm down. It's kitten Apple has done this, don't blame anet.

  • Donutdude.9582Donutdude.9582 Member ✭✭✭

    Such a shame. Typical Apple. It is why I despise them so.

    I feel for all of the Mac OS users. I hope you find another way to enjoy this wonderful game. ❤

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  • Gyro.9182Gyro.9182 Member ✭✭

    I just want to point out that (a) ANet has apparently (if memory serves) laid off a number of staff lately, and (b) it was clear since at least 2018 that OpenGL is not going to be, or remain, a viable option for macOS X (then Mac OS X) for a "longer amount of time". It still works, but support might be discontinued with Big Sur (in autumn) or next year.
    However, that does not mean that everybody with a Mac will update, or will be able to update, to the latest OS that will then no longer provide OpenGL support (e.g., your Mac might be too old to allow installation of the new OS, you don't want to be an early adopter, you have other software that prevents an early (or any) update, ...).
    Simply giving up on the platform with little advance warning is making me feel a mix of emotions, none of which are "happy".

    However, it's also quite possible that due to (a) above, they simply lack the manpower to continue working on the Windows-only version and expansions, while also at least maintaining the Mac platform. I also notice that the posting said that For the time being, Mac users can still play Guild Wars 2 using the Nvidia GeForce Now service while streaming over the Internet. (Apart from the fact that this costs money, and I am not sure how well it will work depending on your Internet connection, the for the time being means "this will probably end at any point in time, perhaps soon, and perhaps with little advance warning".

  • Sonia.7910Sonia.7910 Member ✭✭

    I don't really mind that they drop mac support (not that they had a good mac support anyway, I needed it last year and on the one-each-two-days replies I managed to get I even was told to run a windows app to check the performance of my computer, which was kind of kitten?), but at least I wish they would let us continue running the old client and playing with old computers. Now I have the feeling I have only one month to either manage how to install a windows emulator of find another equally complicated solution.

    Or stop playing my favourite game ever. Which, by the way, was my favourite because I COULD play it on my mac.

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    @Vangalter.5210 said:

    They're dropping it because Apple is making it impossible to code cross platform for developers.

    I thought Universal2 was there to make it easier.

    They're moving to proprietary chips and an entirely different architecture that current code doesn't work on well,

    The game currently runs fine under Rosetta2

    Apple is not known for supporting their older systems

    Looks at 2013 Macs on macOS 11.1

    And they're not about to code a new client from scratch just to accomodate Apple's stuff

    Yeah, i understand that, i mentioned it in the post. Regardless, isnt it a wine wrapper anyway? And i'm not asking for them to build a new client, im asking for them to keep using it until option (1) or (2) happen.

    Sure it kinda still works now, but one new Apple chip later andthe support for the current OS is gone.

    The option (1) of what could happen, yes, but why not maintain it until then?

    Apple is dead set on making developer's lives harder with the decision they made

    I mean, not really? They've been building up Swift for like half a decade and it's great for coding. Open source, too. And Catalyst helps being multiplatform.

    that means double the work for every update of GW2

    Again, thought it was a wine wrapper so it shouldnt require much maintenance if any at all >.< (please correct me if im wrong)

    Linux at least is bridging the gap between Windows and Linux. Apple is widening it.

    M$ has been trying for years to build ARM machines and native ARM windows. Linux has a huge technological investment in ARM as well. But this is besides the point.

    Oops sorry, didn't notice the post.

    Look, just look at my previous post and you'll see the reason.
    The game might currently run fine and all, but the fact is, it's a wonder support lasted for as long as it did.
    Anet, from what i read (bits and pieces), is no longer staffed like they used to be. With covid and all the kitten that's happening right now i can't imagine they would be.

    Whatever the new chip is, Universal2, etc., the fact still remains that they're doubling the work basically for a very small userbase.

    Case in point: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/119332/m1-apple-silicon-client-where-is-it#latest

    Did Guild wars really work on M1? Cause from reading the comments, it didn't, and Apple made it clear they're moving to that type of chip going forward...
    That means coding from scratch for Anet... And if that's the case, i don't see how Universal2 or whatever made it easier.
    GW2 might run fine now, but even Anet said in their post (i think), that in the future it's probably not going to work, in future OS updates.

    Wine is fiddly. Just look at Linux for that. Every new update to linux can and will mess up wine. Every linux distro, every distro version, all need slightly different wine settings, wine versions, etc. to make something work. That all has been managed by Anet so far, and it's still a lot of work for "just a wine wrapper". Anyone who messed with wine on Linux will tell you it's not that simple. It's not just the same client but with wine slapped on it and it "just works". There's tons of other stuff that needs doing for something to reliably work with wine. And every new update requires that process all over again.

    Bottom line is - it's probably too much work for a company that has less staff than it used to, and they're dropping support so they can focus on what needs fixing in game.
    And there's a LOT that needs fixing. Performance for instance. It runs laughably bad on laughably overpowered hardware for such an old game.

    I mean, don't get me wrong, i'd love for everyone to have everything available for every platform, but that's just not viable.

    Besides, while Anet is dropping support for GW2, that doesn't mean people can't pick it up and make the windows client work on a Mac with Wine... That's what pepople do on Linux so... Unless the new M1 chip won't allow it. Wine is a windows wrapper after all, and windows is coded for the style of chips that are in PCs now, that architecture. M1 chip is very much different from that so it's really a gamble if it'll work and when. Nonetheless, i'm sure someone will figure out a way soon enough, and Mac users will be able to play GW2 on Macs again, just not in an "official" capacity.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    @Vangalter.5210 said:
    Apple's M-Series silicon is insanely good

    kek, ok.

    I thought Universal2 was there to make it easier.

    1. create a problem
    2. create a "solution" by still adding steps to the process, which normally were not needed
    3. "what do you mean? They made it easier!"

    I mean, not really? They've been building up Swift for like half a decade and it's great for coding. Open source, too. And Catalyst helps being multiplatform.

    See? Again. And then you somehow convinced yourself this is normal to the point you still think... "Harder for devs? ...not really?" . Yes, really.