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  • @Randulf.7614 said:
    From Feb 18th you can use GeForce Now instead if on a Mac

    Is it working fine? I have my concerns, I use my Mac for work a lot and gaming on occasion. I don't see myself buying another computer just to play some games for 2 hours a week.

    It is still a bit painful not to have GW2 as an option... especially with the incoming expack

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NotTooFoolish.7412 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    From Feb 18th you can use GeForce Now instead if on a Mac

    Is it working fine? I have my concerns, I use my Mac for work a lot and gaming on occasion. I don't see myself buying another computer just to play some games for 2 hours a week.

    It is still a bit painful not to have GW2 as an option... especially with the incoming expack

    I have no idea. I'm just clarifying for the OP that there are other options based on what tha nnouncement said. I have seen some positive commenst on Gw2 on GeForce Now, but I've no experience myself

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • ancientoak.4258ancientoak.4258 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    The most logical reason i can come up with is that the Mac platform is only used by a tiny part compared to MS windows on pc/laptop with intel/amd. It is not worth the cost or time. A native client that is. A emulation would always cause many bugs and anomalies and is it worth/viable to support that, not in my opinion.

  • akcsl.8501akcsl.8501 Member ✭✭

    Guild Wars 2 ran perfectly well on the new M1 Macbooks, I even made a video on it

    Cutting off Mac users is a very disappointing move by Arenanet. I am angry that they are completely shutting down the game for OSX users when there have been no issues with playing the game on both Intel and M1 processors.

    @Veprovina.4876 said:

    @Vangalter.5210 said:

    They're dropping it because Apple is making it impossible to code cross platform for developers.

    I thought Universal2 was there to make it easier.

    They're moving to proprietary chips and an entirely different architecture that current code doesn't work on well,

    The game currently runs fine under Rosetta2

    Apple is not known for supporting their older systems

    Looks at 2013 Macs on macOS 11.1

    And they're not about to code a new client from scratch just to accomodate Apple's stuff

    Yeah, i understand that, i mentioned it in the post. Regardless, isnt it a wine wrapper anyway? And i'm not asking for them to build a new client, im asking for them to keep using it until option (1) or (2) happen.

    Sure it kinda still works now, but one new Apple chip later andthe support for the current OS is gone.

    The option (1) of what could happen, yes, but why not maintain it until then?

    Apple is dead set on making developer's lives harder with the decision they made

    I mean, not really? They've been building up Swift for like half a decade and it's great for coding. Open source, too. And Catalyst helps being multiplatform.

    that means double the work for every update of GW2

    Again, thought it was a wine wrapper so it shouldnt require much maintenance if any at all >.< (please correct me if im wrong)

    Linux at least is bridging the gap between Windows and Linux. Apple is widening it.

    M$ has been trying for years to build ARM machines and native ARM windows. Linux has a huge technological investment in ARM as well. But this is besides the point.

    Oops sorry, didn't notice the post.

    Look, just look at my previous post and you'll see the reason.
    The game might currently run fine and all, but the fact is, it's a wonder support lasted for as long as it did.
    Anet, from what i read (bits and pieces), is no longer staffed like they used to be. With covid and all the kitten that's happening right now i can't imagine they would be.

    Whatever the new chip is, Universal2, etc., the fact still remains that they're doubling the work basically for a very small userbase.

    Case in point: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/119332/m1-apple-silicon-client-where-is-it#latest

    Did Guild wars really work on M1? Cause from reading the comments, it didn't, and Apple made it clear they're moving to that type of chip going forward...
    That means coding from scratch for Anet... And if that's the case, i don't see how Universal2 or whatever made it easier.
    GW2 might run fine now, but even Anet said in their post (i think), that in the future it's probably not going to work, in future OS updates.

    Wine is fiddly. Just look at Linux for that. Every new update to linux can and will mess up wine. Every linux distro, every distro version, all need slightly different wine settings, wine versions, etc. to make something work. That all has been managed by Anet so far, and it's still a lot of work for "just a wine wrapper". Anyone who messed with wine on Linux will tell you it's not that simple. It's not just the same client but with wine slapped on it and it "just works". There's tons of other stuff that needs doing for something to reliably work with wine. And every new update requires that process all over again.

    Bottom line is - it's probably too much work for a company that has less staff than it used to, and they're dropping support so they can focus on what needs fixing in game.
    And there's a LOT that needs fixing. Performance for instance. It runs laughably bad on laughably overpowered hardware for such an old game.

    I mean, don't get me wrong, i'd love for everyone to have everything available for every platform, but that's just not viable.

    Besides, while Anet is dropping support for GW2, that doesn't mean people can't pick it up and make the windows client work on a Mac with Wine... That's what pepople do on Linux so... Unless the new M1 chip won't allow it. Wine is a windows wrapper after all, and windows is coded for the style of chips that are in PCs now, that architecture. M1 chip is very much different from that so it's really a gamble if it'll work and when. Nonetheless, i'm sure someone will figure out a way soon enough, and Mac users will be able to play GW2 on Macs again, just not in an "official" capacity.

  • Hypnowulf.7403Hypnowulf.7403 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    There's a solution I can see (I like solutions), and that's to compile Wine64 for Intel architecture under Rosetta, and then to run Guild Wars 2 via Wine via Rosetta. If Apple's Silicon is as good as they say, it shouldn't struggle too much. I'm not being ironic or sarcastic there. This should actually be a viable solution if the chip can pump out enough performance.

    A lot of the legwork has been done getting Wine to run on Catalina by stripping out the 32-bit elements. This means you won't be able to run 32-bit apps, but thankfully GW2 has a 64-bit downloader, launcher, and client. So that's a non-issue. I imagine that anything that can be compiled for Intel Catalina can be compiled with Rosetta, yes?

    This is what I've managed to piece together after some cursory looking around.

    For those who're already on Intel Macs and don't plan to upgrade soon, I'd recommend running Guild Wars 2 via Wine. It'd be a bit of a fiddle to setup but the performance should be alright there, too. I believe DXVK support is coming along nicely too, so that makes the situation even better.

    What I will recommend is downloading the entire client first. The performance can be terrible if you don't do that, just as a warning. It's not guaranteed to be terrible, perhaps especially if you have a high-end SSD, but it is... likely.

    I don't own a Mac, mind you. I just like researching things.

    Here comes an edit.

    @loseridoit.2756 said:
    Linux players probably have a better GW2 experience than many Windows players.

    Just wanted to add... Yes. This is actually true. Guild Wars 2 runs better on my Linux partition than on my Windows one. It loads faster, it has less frame dips in crowded areas... It's weird. I can only guess it's down to Gallium9, but I dunno!

  • TamX.1870TamX.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    Yes, I was wondering if mac users can play with Linux and as pointed out above, it should be possible. I have played GW2 and other games under Linux with Wine for years. It is not always perfect, but it definitely works.

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    If you want a computer for gaming you shouldn't buy a Mac, and if you can affort a Mac, you don't really care about a little bit more money for an additional windows gaming computer :)

  • Hypnowulf.7403Hypnowulf.7403 Member ✭✭✭

    I think it's worth trying to compile Wine64 with DXVK under Rosetta and running GW2 via that. If the Silicon is really up to it, that could provide even more performance given that—as I understand it—the Mac client is outdated and underperforming anyway. The nice thing is that if that works, it'll continue to work for as long as Guild Wars 2 exists. Linux users already have to do this, after all.

  • Trise.2865Trise.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What about the announcement was unclear? GW2 Mac Client uses a specific kernel to work. Apple no longer uses that kernel and is removing it from current systems. Therefore GW2 Mac client doesn't work. So they have the choice: rebuild it from scratch or abandon it. They chose not to rebuild it.

    The fact that you can easily mod it back to functioning is irrelevant and, quite frankly, probably why they chose not to bother.

    If we want ANet to step up their game, then we must step up ours.

  • @Veprovina.4876 said:
    Wow, Apple really hates its users doesn't it?
    I mean, just by the way of making it super hard for developers to do anything without them looking over it like a fussy mother.
    And now they're closing their systems even more which means, soon, you won't be able to do anything on a MAC that didn't come out of Apple directly.

    Why people continue to support Apple is beyond me...

    Because it is flat out a more stable and superior operating system. And yes I say that from an informed position of having worked in IT on Windows for well over a decade.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    @TamX.1870 said:
    Yes, I was wondering if mac users can play with Linux and as pointed out above, it should be possible. I have played GW2 and other games under Linux with Wine for years. It is not always perfect, but it definitely works.

    Unless you buy a mac with an Apple CPU it's an overpriced computer basically (which is why "Hackintosh" implementations exist). You can install Windows or Linux on them.

  • @Infusion.7149 said:
    If you don't understand it likely means you've never run a business or had to manage multiple code paths.

    I wouldn’t expect most of the player base to do this. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    If you feel the need to feel condescending, it likely means you should keep it to yourself.

    Also, it doesn’t add anything to the conversation. 😉

  • TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Doesn't the mac has a compatibility layer for Windows applications, similar to Wine for Linux?
    PC gaming always as been centered around Windows and x86/x64.

    Ascalon Will Prevail!

    GW Wiki user page | GW2 Wiki user page

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Gyro.9182 said:
    I also notice that the posting said that For the time being, Mac users can still play Guild Wars 2 using the Nvidia GeForce Now service while streaming over the Internet. (Apart from the fact that this costs money, and I am not sure how well it will work depending on your Internet connection, the for the time being means "this will probably end at any point in time, perhaps soon, and perhaps with little advance warning".

    I don't think Anet is going to sunset GeForce Now support anytime soon. Especially after GW2 Reddit asked them to explicitly opt into it in sometime last summer. However, GeForce Now is kind of a "beta" product right now (that's why it's super cheap), and it's not clear whether Nvidia will be able to keep it going for long.

    If you're wondering what it's like to actually use it, I'll quote myself from the other thread:

    Feedback's pretty simple:
    1. Input lag is manageable as long as you're close to the data centers.
    2. When the game would normally drop frames (rotating the screen quickly in the middle of a busy WvW battle, for instance) you tend to get massive tearing.
    3. Anet constantly locks your account due to IP address changes.

    (Their support staff is nice about unlocking you, and reasonably quick, but they really need to fix that third one.)

    tbh I'm likely to run an emulation wrapper before I go back to GeForce Now.

  • BnooMaGoo.5690BnooMaGoo.5690 Member ✭✭✭

    Yes I could use Bluestacks or some other windows emulator.
    But that seems counter-productive.
    It's like how bad do you want to play, customer?
    Not my idea of customer service/player support but I have a few decades of life before the internet & video games.
    Thanks for the tips.

  • @Sobx.1758 said:

    Happy informed gaming then :lol:

    "having worked in IT on windows" just says nothing about your expertise btw. You could as well sit in an office and be "the guy to connect the cables, install software and restart pc to fix a bug" and it would still mean you "have worked in IT on windows".

    ...and it's almost as if that "stability" is something you gain by apple closing itself off from others, which is a direct cause of... well, threads like this one. Stability by exclusivity non-inclusivity, waow.

    Yup, that description cold be applied to my minimalist statement, but it is not applicable to me nor my actual experience. I could post my resume to back that up, but I doubt anyone would care anyway. I do not disagree that Apple has made its own decisions that have directly contributed to this situation being what it is. That does not change the fact that the OS is more stable than Windows.

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Moira Shalaar.5620 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    Happy informed gaming then :lol:

    "having worked in IT on windows" just says nothing about your expertise btw. You could as well sit in an office and be "the guy to connect the cables, install software and restart pc to fix a bug" and it would still mean you "have worked in IT on windows".

    ...and it's almost as if that "stability" is something you gain by apple closing itself off from others, which is a direct cause of... well, threads like this one. Stability by exclusivity non-inclusivity, waow.

    Yup, that description cold be applied to my minimalist statement, but it is not applicable to me nor my actual experience. I could post my resume to back that up, but I doubt anyone would care anyway. I do not disagree that Apple has made its own decisions that have directly contributed to this situation being what it is. That does not change the fact that the OS is more stable than Windows.

    It's only more stable because of the hardware tied to software thing they do. Windows needs to work on thousands of different configurations so as far as the "engineering prowess" is concerned, Windows is far above Apple for doing that. Also, statistics that "measure" that stability don't ever account for systems used to run some tests it's mostly just Apple vs PC. That PC could be from 10 years ago (that still runs Windows) and is probably not very stable, could be 5 different Windows versions, which one was tested, etc... While Apple's stuff only runs on the latest things. They kill any support for older systems as soon as problems start to occur. And there are a lot of problems with Apple software and hardware if you look around the web a bit.

    In direct comparisons, Windows is basically on par with MacOS...

    I mean, don't get me wrong, i agree, MacOS and Linux are generally more stable than Windows though, it bugs me when those statements are just uttered like a bandwagon when in reality, they come with hundreds of asterisks and addendums that go with them to make them true.

    But whatever, i have no horse in the race. It's good that the market has competition and something for everyone. It's just weird to praise Mac for how stable it is for work and servers and whatnot, then complain about gaming on it. That's not what they're for, and Apple, unlike Microsoft, never actively develps tools for gaming, they can focus on oen thing and one thing only while Microsoft has to encompass all of it. So the comparisons of Apple and Microsoft and even Linux are unfair to say the least.

  • ASP.8093ASP.8093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Arenanet has not said anyone on Mac OS cannot play the game. They stated they will not support any users with issues and it's no surprise given the complaint thread this past month by someone getting support information that was incorrect or outdated.

    They explicitly said they're sunsetting the game client:

    Starting February 18 , we will be discontinuing support for the Mac OS version of Guild Wars 2. This means the Mac client will no longer work after this date.

    You can still find workarounds for running GW2 but it's not as simple as "we give up on support tickets," they're literally turning off users' current client at a specified date.

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ASP.8093 said:
    You can still find workarounds for running GW2 but it's not as simple as "we give up on support tickets," they're literally turning off users' current client at a specified date.

    But that doesn't mean someone can't use wine or dual boot or virtualisation to run the Windows client.
    They're shutting down the mac client because as long as it exists, Anet is responsible for it and needs to support it.
    With the Windows client, they're responsible for it only on Windows.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    @Moira Shalaar.5620 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    Happy informed gaming then :lol:

    "having worked in IT on windows" just says nothing about your expertise btw. You could as well sit in an office and be "the guy to connect the cables, install software and restart pc to fix a bug" and it would still mean you "have worked in IT on windows".

    ...and it's almost as if that "stability" is something you gain by apple closing itself off from others, which is a direct cause of... well, threads like this one. Stability by exclusivity non-inclusivity, waow.

    Yup, that description cold be applied to my minimalist statement, but it is not applicable to me nor my actual experience. I could post my resume to back that up, but I doubt anyone would care anyway.

    No worries, that's not what I'm asking for -I'm just saying that what you described as your -lets say- vague credentials to give more meaning to your words meant nothing.

    I do not disagree that Apple has made its own decisions that have directly contributed to this situation being what it is. That does not change the fact that the OS is more stable than Windows.

    Cool, you were talking about having an informed position, so I clarified that what you said as an undeniable proof of superiority of mac systems (or whatever you tried to do by writing what you wrote, I can't read minds) from the position of the long-time windows IT worker is largly what gets it in the situations like this, which at the same time is one of the reasons it's not being chosen by informed people knowing what they want to do with their devices.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Use bootcamp, install windows, play GW2 happily ever after.

    OR

    Use parallels, install windows, play GW2 happily ever after.

    Yet I have to say all this whining for nothing does not surprises me.

  • memausz.7264memausz.7264 Member ✭✭✭

    If you want to keep your Mac, learn how to dual boot Windows 10 on it. It's time to follow some consecutive steps, my friends.

    But if you have a weak Mac.... yeah, time to get a PC.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @memausz.7264 said:
    If you want to keep your Mac, learn how to dual boot Windows 10 on it. It's time to follow some consecutive steps, my friends.

    But if you have a weak Mac.... yeah, time to get a PC.

    Well I don’t think the game would run in a macbook air with integrated graphics anyway...

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Bootcamp is free and comes with macos

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    I've been playing for almost 6 years.
    I can continue possibly if I go through Nvidia meaning I can play one hour a day for free or I can pay another amount to buy a membership.
    Not sure what I will be doing.
    You can blame Apple & there might me some truth to it but that's between the businesses.
    Where does it leave the player?

    Koda the judge & kodan the jury

    .

    Yes I could use Bluestacks or some other windows emulator.
    But that seems counter-productive.
    It's like how bad do you want to play, customer?
    Not my idea of customer service/player support but I have a few decades of life before the internet & video games.
    Thanks for the tips.

    Just curious... have you made a similar complaint/thread on apple's forum?

  • PseudoNewb.5468PseudoNewb.5468 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    Honestly, I think they probably went through preliminary QA for their next build, determined that MAC client breaks, determined they could not fix it, and have no other contingencies for the next release. So the result is, the next release will not have a MAC build. Since you can't login with an old build, the last MAC build will cease working.

  • Noah Salazar.5430Noah Salazar.5430 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2021

    Who buy mac btw, your saw at last opinion of thay repair serivce? once broke, mean you need buy new one, aslo thay make thay products that whay no one can fix them expect of themselfs :/

  • Very true but...
    1. On a tight budget
    2. Likes to play computergames
    3. Choosing a Macbook as first and only platform
    Priorities - Get them straight!

    >

    People do have to prioritise, just cause someone chose a Mac and also likes to play GW2 does not mean they have kitten priorities. I don't quite get your point. People buy computers for other reasons than gaming, even if they enjoy gaming.
    I play on a Macbook because I was doing a lot of photography and when I bought this laptop 6 years ago it was the only real option to go with. Luckily it is also decent enough to play GW2. Are you saying that anyone who decided to get a Mac at some point in the past should also be able to afford to get a Windows system too if they want to also play games? And they should have expected that they should do this?

  • @Dayra.7405 said:
    If you want a computer for gaming you shouldn't buy a Mac, and if you can affort a Mac, you don't really care about a little bit more money for an additional windows gaming computer :)

    Absolutely not true, even if you are just being flippant.

  • Touchme.1097Touchme.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    I feel so kitten off today that I am not even in the mood to play Gw2 at the moment.
    Regards
    A very unhappy and unsatisfied customer

  • BnooMaGoo.5690BnooMaGoo.5690 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2021

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    I've been playing for almost 6 years.
    I can continue possibly if I go through Nvidia meaning I can play one hour a day for free or I can pay another amount to buy a membership.
    Not sure what I will be doing.
    You can blame Apple & there might me some truth to it but that's between the businesses.
    Where does it leave the player?

    Koda the judge & kodan the jury

    .

    Yes I could use Bluestacks or some other windows emulator.
    But that seems counter-productive.
    It's like how bad do you want to play, customer?
    Not my idea of customer service/player support but I have a few decades of life before the internet & video games.
    Thanks for the tips.

    Just curious... have you made a similar complaint/thread on apple's forum

    Just curious... why did you respond to this?
    Apple's forum?
    Which one?
    Are you going to suggest buying a pc next?
    This isn't about whether pcs are better than Apple despite any attempts to guide the conversation there.
    It's about ArenaNet choosing not to support a platform going forward period.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2021

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:
    I've been playing for almost 6 years.
    I can continue possibly if I go through Nvidia meaning I can play one hour a day for free or I can pay another amount to buy a membership.
    Not sure what I will be doing.
    You can blame Apple & there might me some truth to it but that's between the businesses.
    Where does it leave the player?

    Koda the judge & kodan the jury

    .

    Yes I could use Bluestacks or some other windows emulator.
    But that seems counter-productive.
    It's like how bad do you want to play, customer?
    Not my idea of customer service/player support but I have a few decades of life before the internet & video games.
    Thanks for the tips.

    Just curious... have you made a similar complaint/thread on apple's forum

    Just curious... why did you respond to this?
    Apple's forum?
    Which one?
    Are you going to suggest buying a pc next?
    This isn't about whether pcs are better than Apple despite any attempts to guide the conversation there.

    Did I say anything about apple vs pcs here? I'm asking why are you trying to make anet responsible for anything when all they did was respond to the actions of apple.

    Like...
    "I can continue possibly if I go through Nvidia meaning I can play one hour a day for free or I can pay another amount to buy a membership." -how is this anet's problem/fault? Tell that to the company that made your hardware and stopped supporting whatever again when you're still willing to use it.

    "Yes I could use Bluestacks or some other windows emulator.
    But that seems counter-productive." -again, why is this anet's responsibility that you don't want to go through more steps? It's apple creating inconveniences here, not anet, right?

    "It's like how bad do you want to play, customer?" -said apple when they stopped supporting whatever again? I mean you could play gw2 on mac, anet didn't try to bait you into buying pc by telling you "you bought mac? we don't want you!". It's apple that pulled the support and develepment of resources that gw2 used for 8 years now.
    ...right?

    I'm not "trying to make it about pc vs mac", I'm trying to tell you that you're trying to guilt a company that's not even the main source of your unhappiness. And that's exactly why I've responded to this. Hope I satisfied your curiosity as much as you satisfied mine (because despite not directly answering to my question, it's clear you didn't complain to apple about this).

    It's about ArenaNet choosing not to support a platform going forward period.

    Nope, it should be about apple suddenly not supporting what anet was using for 8 years, "period".

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BnooMaGoo.5690 said:

    It's about ArenaNet choosing not to support a platform going forward period.

    I'm sure I'd be quite upset if I were in your shoes, but I don't blame ANet one bit for this decision. For all I know, choosing to support the mac client might be tantamount to essentially developing a second version of their aging product. I believe they cared enough to talk about it seriously amongst themselves, but the math just didn't turn out anywhere close enough to a spot where they could green light that project.

    As much as I generally despise mac products, I hate to see any member of the community lose access like this. I hope in the meantime the various emulation solutions are good enough (or keep improving) to keep you in the game.

  • Touchme.1097Touchme.1097 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2021

    @""Veprovina.4876" You can't take Steam as the only representative of the world gaming market, you are not considering other game stores and Apple has its own game store as well. Please refrain from writing invalid arguments based on your opinions, you have no idea what your talking about. My claim still stands right, your assumption that the gaming market orbits around Windows is a pure old myth based on no evidence. Here is some food for your thoughts: https://www.wepc.com/news/video-game-statistics/

  • Hard to work with someone that doesnt want to work with you.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2021

    @Touchme.1097 said:
    @""Veprovina.4876" You can't take Steam as the only representative of the world gaming market, you are not considering other game stores and Apple has its own game store as well. Please refrain from writing invalid arguments based on your opinions, you have no idea what your talking about. My claim still stands right, your assumption that the gaming market orbits around Windows is a pure old myth based on no evidence. Here is some food for your thoughts: https://www.wepc.com/news/video-game-statistics/

    There's nothing on there about MacOS on desktop/laptops that I see. iOS has a sizable marketshare in the mobile space. This isn't a mobile game similar to an iPad app.

    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/06/gaming-on-apple-platforms-is-set-for-some-big-changes-here-are-a-few/

    In a hugely consequential change for the Mac platform, Macs running Apple Silicon will be able to run iOS and iPadOS games. Developers will be able to choose whether their iOS or iPadOS games are listed on the Mac App Store, but if they choose that, the games will run natively, with minimal additional work required.

    This is a seismic shift for gaming on the Mac, and it may represent Apple giving up on a strategy that has never really worked that well in the 15 years since Macs moved to Intel CPUs. Mac games have generally been ports of Windows games. Not all games get ported, and those that do often don't perform well.

    Here’s what’s happening to Boot Camp amid the Apple silicon transition
    The poor performance hasn't been because of any one problem. It's a combination of Apple's emphasis with its video drivers, the comparative weakness of the mobile GPUs used in Apple's Macs versus PC gaming GPUs up until very recently, bad OpenGL support in Macs, a reliance on DirectX-specific technologies and frameworks in modern games, and a lack of widespread expertise in Apple's proprietary Metal graphics API among PC game developers, among other things.

    Plus, porting triple-A games is extremely expensive, and the market for them on Macs has always been relatively small. It's been hard for a lot of developers to justify the cost and effort. It seems like Apple has decided that trying and failing to win with that strategy is no longer worth it, so the Mac's center of gaming gravity is moving from Windows PCs to the iPhone.
    From Apple's perspective, this seems like an all-around win. The iPhone app store dwarfs PC gaming by many metrics, the nature of the Apple Silicon shift means Apple will usually be able to ask for more of a cut of revenue from developers who make the games than they would in the old ecosystem, and the effort and expense required to make an iPhone game work well on an Apple Silicon-equipped Mac pales in comparison to that required to port a triple-A, DirectX game in Windows to Metal in macOS.

    Parallels' macOS marketshare numbers:
    As of November 2020, macOS holds a 7.31% share of the operating system (OS) market, compared to 5.79% almost two years ago. (https://www.parallels.com/blogs/mac-in-business/)

    Anti-developer practices:

    https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/apple-ends-epics-ability-to-offer-fortnite-save-the-world-on-mac

    Apple is preventing Epic from signing games and patches for distribution on Mac, which ends our ability to develop and offer Fortnite: Save the World for the platform.

    (the aftermath: Fortnite set to return to iPhones via Nvidia cloud gaming service http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54825891 , https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2020/11/19/amid-dispute-with-apple-epic-games-finds-workaround-to-bring-fortnite-back-to-ios/)

    https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/368364/Apple_to_revoke_Epics_dev_tools_including_those_used_for_Unreal_Engine.php

    The fight between Apple and Epic is only picking up steam, and, according to Epic’s latest development, it looks like the collateral damage has begun.

    Epic has now filed a motion with the court to block Apple from retaliating or taking any adverse action against Epic’s business in response to the lawsuit it filed last week.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2020/08/17/apple-cuts-off-epic-its-tools-endangering-future-unreal-engine-projects-ios-mac/

    An Epic Games spokeswoman tells The Post that without that access, all future versions of Unreal Engine can’t be developed for iOS and Mac devices like iPhones and Macbooks. In turn, subsequent updates to iOS or Mac devices could make software running on Unreal Engine unusable.
    ...
    Game developer Brianna Wu said she already invested thousands for a new Mac to port an Unreal 3 iOS game over to a 64-bit program.
    “Now that project is dead in its tracks,” Wu told The Post. “Using Unreal to develop iOS games has always been extremely risky. All the greatest games of all time, games Apple promoted at iOS keynotes like ‘Infinity Blade’ are gone, lost to time because Apple constantly breaks Unreal Engine with updates.”

    https://www.cnet.com/news/apples-out-to-crush-fortnite-and-unreal-engine-epic-games-says-apple-refuses-to-make-exception/

    Canalys analysis:
    https://www.canalys.com/newsroom/worldwide-pc-market-Q3-2020

    Lenovo led the global market with 23.5 million tablets, notebooks and desktops shipped followed closely by Apple with 22.1 million macs and iPads

    15.2 million of that 22.1 million was iPads because the chart on the page listing tablets has that number , meaning the total Mac computers (non tablets) is 6.9 million (~5%)

    Per Gartner , 7% marketshare for Apple in terms of Worldwide PC Vendor Unit Shipment Estimates for 2019

    Also WePC isn't a reputable source for statistics unlike a source such as IDC, Counterpoint research, Canalys, Gartner, or industry publications such as eetimes, IEEE, etc. Even in the mobile phone space, globally Samsung is top at 22% while Apple is 11% and in Europe where presumably half the players are Samsung leads Apple by nearly double.

    The risk/reward for investing in that ecosystem for Arenanet as a company is in the negative to the extreme.

    Leave the Apple bubble mentality and you will see reality. You have more luck of a mobile payment option with an Apple iPhone app and Android app than a full game on macOS.


    @ASP.8093 said:

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Arenanet has not said anyone on Mac OS cannot play the game. They stated they will not support any users with issues and it's no surprise given the complaint thread this past month by someone getting support information that was incorrect or outdated.

    They explicitly said they're sunsetting the game client:

    Starting February 18 , we will be discontinuing support for the Mac OS version of Guild Wars 2. This means the Mac client will no longer work after this date.

    You can still find workarounds for running GW2 but it's not as simple as "we give up on support tickets," they're literally turning off users' current client at a specified date.

    Please note that—due to ongoing changes to the game—these system requirements may change over time. In the event that you run into problems playing, you may need to upgrade your system or hardware to continue playing the game as intended.
    https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/201862958-Minimum-System-Requirements

    They are fully covered on this.

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2021

    @Touchme.1097 said:
    @""Veprovina.4876" You can't take Steam as the only representative of the world gaming market, you are not considering other game stores and Apple has its own game store as well. Please refrain from writing invalid arguments based on your opinions, you have no idea what your talking about. My claim still stands right, your assumption that the gaming market orbits around Windows is a pure old myth based on no evidence. Here is some food for your thoughts: https://www.wepc.com/news/video-game-statistics/

    Apple has the iStore. That's not relevant to the discussion because it's mobile gaming ment for handheld devices, not desktops.

    If you're saying that the largest spread platform's among desktop computers' statistical analisys is an invalid argument based on my opinion, then i'm afraid i can only surmize you're a fanboy and are at this point defending your platform religiously for no apparent reason whatsoever.

    Gaming marked does orbit around windows because that's where the "gaming" graphics cards manufacturers advertise their stuff on, because most games are written for DirectX, not OpenGL, because Microsoft is actively supporting a wide variety of hardwares with its platform specifically to accomodate gaming among other things, and because when you go to a store to buy a gaming machine, no one in their right mind will sell you a Mac.

    But i think @Infusion.7149 explained it to you better than i can so... Read that post and follow his advice. There's nothing wrong with liking a platform, just don't get stuck in an echochamber so far that you refuse facts.

  • Sol.6340Sol.6340 Member ✭✭

    I've logged thousands of hours in the game and just spent over $100 in gems, and ANet is just telling me that I'm not a valuable player. There are dozens if not more ways to allow Mac players to continue to play without having to invest in new hardware or switching to the PC world. Especially during the time of the pandemic, this is an extremely poor decision. I'm disappointed, I'm angry, and I'm unable to comprehend why there's almost no notice on ANet's part (they've known for at least 2 years this was going to be an issue) and also just... depressed. WvW was my game mode of choice, I spent countless hours playing, defending, and making friends and in one slash you've taken that all away from me. There are no words to describe how upset I am.

    Poor choice. All the way around.

    • Persistence (Purrsi), Carissa
  • Sol.6340Sol.6340 Member ✭✭
    edited January 11, 2021

    I don't know how many other players were also playing on the Mac client, it certainly had its drawbacks but it worked for what I needed. As you drop Mac players, with almost no warning, you're also dropping a selection of your player base and telling us that we're not worthy of your time, your effort, or your game - regardless of the investments that we've made to be part of the game ecosystem. I was a beta tester, I've been here 8 years, but now? Now I'm a nobody.

    What's next? Dropping the ability to play via nVidia? With little or no warning AND I have to buy a subscription to play and hope that my internet connection is fast enough to do so? Or do I buy a current generation PC to game on, spend thousands of dollars on a computer only to be told, again with little or no warning, that my operating system/graphics card/whatever is no longer viable? Yes, in this case, Mac users got screwed but now that its happened, who's next under the knife?

    For the PC users who are like, "I don't know why you'd buy a Mac to game with anyways" - let me respond with, for 8 YEARS it was okay, and then one day, I woke up, logged in, and found out it wasn't. This isn't on me, this is on Arena Net. This is on the people who are unwilling to upgrade to an actual solution for OpenGL. There's options, but it would take effort and I've been told I'm not worth the effort.

    This game was my lifeline, a place where I had a community, friends, and something that mattered. No longer available, I'm very frustrated. I'm tired of the flames, I'm tired of not being good enough, and I'm tired of the idea that you're not willing to even turn over your code to the community so that we can build our own solution for the Mac side of the equation.

    I was looking forward to Factions. I was looking forward to fighting with my friends in wvw this week. I was doing my best to actually buy currency to support development. And at the end of the day, none of it matters.

    I'm just one voice in a sea of thousands, but just because you don't hear me, doesn't mean it doesn't matter.

  • All these Mac users crying. Get serious and run dual boot windows or linux for your gaming needs.

    Time to join the big boys!