The truth about necros... — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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The truth about necros...

If necros were as OP and "broken" as everyone keeps pretending they are because they can't steamroll them in a single rotation, everyone would be playing them to stay competitive. Just stop already. When people who actually counterplay see you complaining like that, it looks bad. Balance is focused on high-end play because you don't balance around people not playing correctly. That would be ridiculous.

Are their rotations and gameplay simple? Yes. Are they broken? Not a chance. Grab some cleanse and start learning to corrupt boons. You'll be fine.

Comments

  • Who said necro is OP or broken?

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2021

    There is someone on nec forum asking for nerfs.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/117932/necro-deserves-a-solid-nerf-especially-reaper-in-pvp-and-especially-wvw#latest

    the person seems to be a noob ranger complaining about necromancer

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2021

    What you're seeing is the effect of the 2v2 mini-season.

    Necro is incredibly strong in 2v2 deathmatch, but less strong in 5v5 conquest, because 5v5 has more space to exploit necro's weaknesses, and more opportunities to focus-fire down the necro with 3-4 players. and also Lich can't cheese a long 5v5 match as easily.

    So everyone who's been playing 2v2 recently thinks its super strong. Then we go back into 5v5 season and nobody cares any more.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ragnar.4257 said:
    What you're seeing is the effect of the 2v2 mini-season.

    Necro is incredibly strong in 2v2 deathmatch, but less strong in 5v5 conquest, because 5v5 has more space to exploit necro's weaknesses, and more opportunities to focus-fire down the necro with 3-4 players. and also Lich can't cheese a long 5v5 match as easily.

    So everyone who's been playing 2v2 recently thinks its super strong. Then we go back into 5v5 season and nobody cares any more.

    That is exactly it, necro works in the buddy system the best since it is designed that way, the whole life force shroud mechanic requires targets to get to maximum effectiveness as the same time it does not have some amazing defenses to survive and it needs someone to watch your back. So the deathmatch be it 2v2 3v3 is just the area of effectiveness that necro has in conquest, it is just good in skirmishes and teamfights be default cause that is its place but it really doesn't have much outside of that . Necro is probably one of their better designed classes (well except scourge that was constant area denial, which is terrible idea from the start) , since it has its niche and can't overlap other positions with one build (like many no identity classes that are great at all things).

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Necro can definitely carry some players many hundred mmr higher than there intended rating. What I don’t get about your post is why u always talk about high-end play and balance as if theres something glorious about a small part of the population. Maybe ur just a fan boi, what am I supposed to think

  • High end play? in this game lmao get real kid. Take a look around pvp is just casual fun and people who take it seriously need to re-evaluate your life.

  • @ixora.3569 said:
    High end play? in this game lmao get real kid. Take a look around pvp is just casual fun and people who take it seriously need to re-evaluate your life.

    But they are serious, serious about getting their leggy backpiece and amulet then going back to pve lol.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:
    There is someone on nec forum asking for nerfs.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/117932/necro-deserves-a-solid-nerf-especially-reaper-in-pvp-and-especially-wvw#latest

    the person seems to be a noob ranger complaining about necromancer

    I wouldn't go that far, any ranger main knows they are a hard counter against necros. This seems more like a multiclass learning the ropes and learning ranger is not as easy as it seems in sPvP.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Necros aren't OP.
    They're just perform really well for the little amount of effort needed to master it and put it into practice.

    But if yu put a high skilled Necro vs an equally high skilled Profession like, idk, Thief, Revenant, Mesmer or Ranger, the Necro is extremely disadvantaged by the fact they have a certain "threat zone" as well as the fact their entire kit and utility is so basic and predicatable.

    When yu have a kit as basic and predicatable like that, yur outplay potential is limited to the enemy making a mistake and getting into the threat zone and getting punished.
    If not, Necros actually have no real chance to beat anyone of equal skill calibur.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Norbe.7630 said:
    I dont think necros OP
    i dont think everyone thinks necros op

    @Filip.7463 said:
    Who said necro is OP or broken?

    It's more Lich Form that they are complaining about, due to what @Ragnar.4257 mentioned about 2v2 seasons.

    Lots of debate could go on about Lich Form being ok or needing nerfs. But before discussing Lich, players should acknowledge that the bulk of the complaints vs. Lich stems from 2v2 seasons, where a round can be won in 30s from a single use of Lich, and then the Lich resets its CD when the new round begins, bypassing its intended long ICD. This is a problem with 2v2/3v3 format, not Lich Form. No one complains about Lich in 5v5 conquest.

    @Axl.8924 said:
    There is someone on nec forum asking for nerfs.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/117932/necro-deserves-a-solid-nerf-especially-reaper-in-pvp-and-especially-wvw#latest

    the person seems to be a noob ranger complaining about necromancer

    All Rangers hard counter all Necros. Any Ranger who complains about Necromancer is certainly a bad player.

  • Klypto.1703Klypto.1703 Member ✭✭✭

    Hard counter to rangers is destroy their #2 key.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    There is someone on nec forum asking for nerfs.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/117932/necro-deserves-a-solid-nerf-especially-reaper-in-pvp-and-especially-wvw#latest

    the person seems to be a noob ranger complaining about necromancer

    I wouldn't go that far, any ranger main knows they are a hard counter against necros. This seems more like a multiclass learning the ropes and learning ranger is not as easy as it seems in sPvP.

    To be fair the thread has been created by a ranger that insist to use the few ranger's tools that don't hard counter the necromancer. His build isn't bad per se, from what he say it work against most professions, but when facing a necromancer it fall short (and I even say that his build is hard countered). It's more an issue of someone lacking the ability to acknowledge that he don't use the proper tools than an issue of balance.

  • Bazsi.2734Bazsi.2734 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If 2v2 or 3v3 would be the main gamemode, I'd totally agree with those wanting nerfs, however... it's not. Did the monthly tourney even have necros in it?

  • Norbe.7630Norbe.7630 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2021

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:
    It's more Lich Form that they are complaining about, due to what @Ragnar.4257 mentioned about 2v2 seasons.

    Ah is see, the 2v2 season.
    Maybe we should teach the noobs the mechanics of the games first like in PvE raids or World boss, the hardest hitting on lich form was a projectile skill 1.
    (i think i learned that first during one of my first fractal runs fighting asuran golem, where mesmer puts dome reflects on that golem, im sorry i forgot the PvE names and terms, i don't do that mode often)

    On that season i ran, trapper druid (w/staff), burn guard (w/shield), scourge/necro (w/poison cloud), mesmer (w/ kiting skill)

    My favorite part on that was i am acting being hurt or panicking while enemies are on lich form while I'm inside the poison cloud on my necro, their lich form expires faster than my poison cloud.

    Noobs just panics when they see an enemy on lich form, they run.

    Why So Serious?

  • @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Norbe.7630 said:
    I dont think necros OP
    i dont think everyone thinks necros op

    @Filip.7463 said:
    Who said necro is OP or broken?

    It's more Lich Form that they are complaining about, due to what @Ragnar.4257 mentioned about 2v2 seasons.

    Lots of debate could go on about Lich Form being ok or needing nerfs. But before discussing Lich, players should acknowledge that the bulk of the complaints vs. Lich stems from 2v2 seasons, where a round can be won in 30s from a single use of Lich, and then the Lich resets its CD when the new round begins, bypassing its intended long ICD. This is a problem with 2v2/3v3 format, not Lich Form. No one complains about Lich in 5v5 conquest.

    @Axl.8924 said:
    There is someone on nec forum asking for nerfs.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/117932/necro-deserves-a-solid-nerf-especially-reaper-in-pvp-and-especially-wvw#latest

    the person seems to be a noob ranger complaining about necromancer

    All Rangers hard counter all Necros. Any Ranger who complains about Necromancer is certainly a bad player.

    Lich is for noobs, 150s CD. Easy to kite lich, dodge, reflect, block - its like 0 velocity.
    Good players use chilled to the bone

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Filip.7463 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Norbe.7630 said:
    I dont think necros OP
    i dont think everyone thinks necros op

    @Filip.7463 said:
    Who said necro is OP or broken?

    It's more Lich Form that they are complaining about, due to what @Ragnar.4257 mentioned about 2v2 seasons.

    Lots of debate could go on about Lich Form being ok or needing nerfs. But before discussing Lich, players should acknowledge that the bulk of the complaints vs. Lich stems from 2v2 seasons, where a round can be won in 30s from a single use of Lich, and then the Lich resets its CD when the new round begins, bypassing its intended long ICD. This is a problem with 2v2/3v3 format, not Lich Form. No one complains about Lich in 5v5 conquest.

    @Axl.8924 said:
    There is someone on nec forum asking for nerfs.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/117932/necro-deserves-a-solid-nerf-especially-reaper-in-pvp-and-especially-wvw#latest

    the person seems to be a noob ranger complaining about necromancer

    All Rangers hard counter all Necros. Any Ranger who complains about Necromancer is certainly a bad player.

    Lich is for noobs, 150s CD. Easy to kite lich, dodge, reflect, block - its like 0 velocity.
    Good players use chilled to the bone

    you mean 75s cd, 1,25s cast time " enemy loses 1 dodge "
    vs 150s cd " enemy has to give up for 10s "

  • Filip.7463Filip.7463 Member ✭✭
    edited January 11, 2021

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Filip.7463 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Norbe.7630 said:
    I dont think necros OP
    i dont think everyone thinks necros op

    @Filip.7463 said:
    Who said necro is OP or broken?

    It's more Lich Form that they are complaining about, due to what @Ragnar.4257 mentioned about 2v2 seasons.

    Lots of debate could go on about Lich Form being ok or needing nerfs. But before discussing Lich, players should acknowledge that the bulk of the complaints vs. Lich stems from 2v2 seasons, where a round can be won in 30s from a single use of Lich, and then the Lich resets its CD when the new round begins, bypassing its intended long ICD. This is a problem with 2v2/3v3 format, not Lich Form. No one complains about Lich in 5v5 conquest.

    @Axl.8924 said:
    There is someone on nec forum asking for nerfs.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/117932/necro-deserves-a-solid-nerf-especially-reaper-in-pvp-and-especially-wvw#latest

    the person seems to be a noob ranger complaining about necromancer

    All Rangers hard counter all Necros. Any Ranger who complains about Necromancer is certainly a bad player.

    Lich is for noobs, 150s CD. Easy to kite lich, dodge, reflect, block - its like 0 velocity.
    Good players use chilled to the bone

    you mean 75s cd, 1,25s cast time " enemy loses 1 dodge "
    vs 150s cd " enemy has to give up for 10s "

    Ever heard for dodge, block, reflect, aegis, retalitation?
    Guard and scrapper can block lich for whole team and usually there is a guard in each team since its very common class.

    Oh and necro has to exit lich if there are some condis on him ;)

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 11, 2021

    well i had quite a few rounds that had 3necros in the enemy team (or more than 3)

    Scourges are ok.
    Reapers are borderline, but still managable
    Core Necros have too much Shroud regeneration / too low shroud cooldown.
    They use shroud until its empty, If they reach 66% health, the shroud is completely full again. If shroud is empty, necros are fully healed again.

    Is handles condis very well and power got nerfed, so there are no real threats to it anymore.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Filip.7463 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Filip.7463 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Norbe.7630 said:
    I dont think necros OP
    i dont think everyone thinks necros op

    @Filip.7463 said:
    Who said necro is OP or broken?

    It's more Lich Form that they are complaining about, due to what @Ragnar.4257 mentioned about 2v2 seasons.

    Lots of debate could go on about Lich Form being ok or needing nerfs. But before discussing Lich, players should acknowledge that the bulk of the complaints vs. Lich stems from 2v2 seasons, where a round can be won in 30s from a single use of Lich, and then the Lich resets its CD when the new round begins, bypassing its intended long ICD. This is a problem with 2v2/3v3 format, not Lich Form. No one complains about Lich in 5v5 conquest.

    @Axl.8924 said:
    There is someone on nec forum asking for nerfs.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/117932/necro-deserves-a-solid-nerf-especially-reaper-in-pvp-and-especially-wvw#latest

    the person seems to be a noob ranger complaining about necromancer

    All Rangers hard counter all Necros. Any Ranger who complains about Necromancer is certainly a bad player.

    Lich is for noobs, 150s CD. Easy to kite lich, dodge, reflect, block - its like 0 velocity.
    Good players use chilled to the bone

    you mean 75s cd, 1,25s cast time " enemy loses 1 dodge "
    vs 150s cd " enemy has to give up for 10s "

    Ever heard for dodge, block, reflect, aegis, retalitation?
    Guard and scrapper can block lich for whole team and usually there is a guard in each team since its very common class.

    Oh and necro has to exit lich if there are some condis on him ;)

    I did, its much easier to block/blind/dodge once then do it for 10s, which is why lich is OP. yes proj block/reflect is a hard counter, but most classes cant really afford to take those
    Oh and necro can use their 1200 range to use the lich safely and not run into the condis. :)

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Lich autos need a 50% damage nerf, after that necros fine.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2021

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Lich autos need a 50% damage nerf, after that necros fine.

    Nerfing damage is problematic since it has such a high cd 150s s for damage that is bad is kinda gonna put lich in the unsueable stage.

    50% is too huge.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lich_Form says 150% here which is huge huge CD for such a big nerf which would cripple and hobble core.

    Like others have said prob an issue in 2v2.

    Also if it does need a nerf better to start small to see how much instead of huge 90% nerfs 200% nerfs.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Lich autos need a 50% damage nerf, after that necros fine.

    Nerfing damage is problematic since it has such a high cd 150s s for damage that is bad is kinda gonna put lich in the unsueable stage.

    50% is too huge.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lich_Form says 150% here which is huge huge CD for such a big nerf which would cripple and hobble core.

    Like others have said prob an issue in 2v2.

    Also if it does need a nerf better to start small to see how much instead of huge 90% nerfs 200% nerfs.

    I'd say that it wouldn't be an issue if they nerf the AA thought. Technically, the feb patch made the sustain from grim specter (lich#5) a lot more potent which can be seen as a balance point for a possible loss of damage on the AA. Now, sure, after close to one year, such a change would only feel like a nerf because everyone is used to the current potency of all the skills.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Lich autos need a 50% damage nerf, after that necros fine.

    Nerfing damage is problematic since it has such a high cd 150s s for damage that is bad is kinda gonna put lich in the unsueable stage.

    50% is too huge.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lich_Form says 150% here which is huge huge CD for such a big nerf which would cripple and hobble core.

    Like others have said prob an issue in 2v2.

    Also if it does need a nerf better to start small to see how much instead of huge 90% nerfs 200% nerfs.

    I'd say that it wouldn't be an issue if they nerf the AA thought. Technically, the feb patch made the sustain from grim specter (lich#5) a lot more potent which can be seen as a balance point for a possible loss of damage on the AA. Now, sure, after close to one year, such a change would only feel like a nerf because everyone is used to the current potency of all the skills.

    I dunno 50% is such a huge number and what about the huge CD? usually huge nerfs like the way in wow when they did 50% nerf 60% nerf and gutting a class or some cases here too a skill makes it useless.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Lich autos need a 50% damage nerf, after that necros fine.

    Nerfing damage is problematic since it has such a high cd 150s s for damage that is bad is kinda gonna put lich in the unsueable stage.

    50% is too huge.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lich_Form says 150% here which is huge huge CD for such a big nerf which would cripple and hobble core.

    Like others have said prob an issue in 2v2.

    Also if it does need a nerf better to start small to see how much instead of huge 90% nerfs 200% nerfs.

    I'd say that it wouldn't be an issue if they nerf the AA thought. Technically, the feb patch made the sustain from grim specter (lich#5) a lot more potent which can be seen as a balance point for a possible loss of damage on the AA. Now, sure, after close to one year, such a change would only feel like a nerf because everyone is used to the current potency of all the skills.

    I dunno 50% is such a huge number and what about the huge CD? usually huge nerfs like the way in wow when they did 50% nerf 60% nerf and gutting a class or some cases here too a skill makes it useless.

    Maybe but technically both the life leeching and vitality components of grim reaper have seen a significant increase of efficiency with the patch. Is it right to accept this buff of "sustain efficiency" and fight against nerfs on the other side on the basis of "damage efficiency"? Should all healing and damage number values be decreased by 30% for the sake of "fairness" instead? Personally I'd rather have a 50% damage nerf on the AA than a global 30% nerf.

    Beside, if a 50% nerf on the AA of a transformation that have a 150s CD is enough to gut a profession, then the profession is already broken at it's core and need to be looked at seriously by the developpers. It's better to get rid of the bandaid that hide the festering wound and threat the wound than keep the bandaid.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2021

    For one the auto's do to much damage regardless of the lich's cooldown because thier ranged, and obviously can be spammed which promotes the opposite type of playstyle that anet should be going for. Necros have two teleports that are commonly used if the so chose to use, a save me button in the form of shroud that regenerates pretty quickly making them have great sustain so they already have a oh kitten skill as part of their playstyle and don't need a second one. Necros use lich auto spam as a brainless spam crutch in team fights and is far to effective for how spammy and brainless it is. Anet should be trying to avoid playstyles as such not promote it, until they start changing things like this the games pvp will continue to decline and will never be taken with any remote kind of seriousness.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Lich autos need a 50% damage nerf, after that necros fine.

    Nerfing damage is problematic since it has such a high cd 150s s for damage that is bad is kinda gonna put lich in the unsueable stage.

    50% is too huge.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lich_Form says 150% here which is huge huge CD for such a big nerf which would cripple and hobble core.

    Like others have said prob an issue in 2v2.

    Also if it does need a nerf better to start small to see how much instead of huge 90% nerfs 200% nerfs.

    I'd say that it wouldn't be an issue if they nerf the AA thought. Technically, the feb patch made the sustain from grim specter (lich#5) a lot more potent which can be seen as a balance point for a possible loss of damage on the AA. Now, sure, after close to one year, such a change would only feel like a nerf because everyone is used to the current potency of all the skills.

    I dunno 50% is such a huge number and what about the huge CD? usually huge nerfs like the way in wow when they did 50% nerf 60% nerf and gutting a class or some cases here too a skill makes it useless.

    Maybe but technically both the life leeching and vitality components of grim reaper have seen a significant increase of efficiency with the patch. Is it right to accept this buff of "sustain efficiency" and fight against nerfs on the other side on the basis of "damage efficiency"? Should all healing and damage number values be decreased by 30% for the sake of "fairness" instead? Personally I'd rather have a 50% damage nerf on the AA than a global 30% nerf.

    Beside, if a 50% nerf on the AA of a transformation that have a 150s CD is enough to gut a profession, then the profession is already broken at it's core and need to be looked at seriously by the developpers. It's better to get rid of the bandaid that hide the festering wound and threat the wound than keep the bandaid.

    You may well be the only honest necro player left on this forum

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dantheman.3589 said:
    Necro can definitely carry some players many hundred mmr higher than there intended rating. What I don’t get about your post is why u always talk about high-end play and balance as if theres something glorious about a small part of the population. Maybe ur just a fan boi, what am I supposed to think

    Nothing more to add

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well guess i'm alone on thinking that 150s is absurd if they gut the damage. Maybe if its reduced in CD.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2021

    Everyone knows them... all these 500mmr above hardcarry necros never ending up at least top50 at the end of the season. Life is unfair, esp. to necros.

    The other day I carried sindrener on his underpowered teef to top3, but no one noticed.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:
    Well guess i'm alone on thinking that 150s is absurd if they gut the damage. Maybe if its reduced in CD.

    I personally would nerf the autos, the damage from the autos is insane and nobody has enough sustain to stand ticks of 4k.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:
    Well guess i'm alone on thinking that 150s is absurd if they gut the damage. Maybe if its reduced in CD.

    150 is to long, max cd on any skill should be 120. My issue is simply the damage the autos do for 2 reasons 1 its spamable and 2 its ranged. These combined with it's high damage promote a spamming braindead playstyle that's far to effective for effort involved. These skills are part of the reason pvp in gw2 is considered a joke. Ex classes are on node teamfighting and fights going well playstyle wise until a necro goes lich and starts spamming 4.5k autos lmao or guard starts passively burning players for high damage or within that medium length fight a dh drops 2-3 rotations of his traps cuz their low CD's. These types of playstyles are not healthy and on top due to their skill designs even if not built for it they can be pretty tanky as well.
    Decrease lich CD to 120
    Nerf its damage on autos by 15% but lose ranged, melee range only or
    Nerf auto damage 30% but keep the ranged autos.
    Do that and necros are pretty balanced.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2021

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    Well guess i'm alone on thinking that 150s is absurd if they gut the damage. Maybe if its reduced in CD.

    150 is to long, max cd on any skill should be 120. My issue is simply the damage the autos do for 2 reasons 1 its spamable and 2 its ranged. These combined with it's high damage promote a spamming braindead playstyle that's far to effective for effort involved. These skills are part of the reason pvp in gw2 is considered a joke. Ex classes are on node teamfighting and fights going well playstyle wise until a necro goes lich and starts spamming 4.5k autos lmao or guard starts passively burning players for high damage or within that medium length fight a dh drops 2-3 rotations of his traps cuz their low CD's. These types of playstyles are not healthy and on top due to their skill designs even if not built for it they can be pretty tanky as well.
    Decrease lich CD to 120
    Nerf its damage on autos by 15% but lose ranged, melee range only or
    Nerf auto damage 30% but keep the ranged autos.
    Do that and necros are pretty balanced.

    30% on autos is more reasonable 50% is huge.

    Having 50% less damage whats that like 2k? plus with 150 sec cd or even less is huge.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 12, 2021

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    Well guess i'm alone on thinking that 150s is absurd if they gut the damage. Maybe if its reduced in CD.

    150 is to long, max cd on any skill should be 120. My issue is simply the damage the autos do for 2 reasons 1 its spamable and 2 its ranged. These combined with it's high damage promote a spamming braindead playstyle that's far to effective for effort involved. These skills are part of the reason pvp in gw2 is considered a joke. Ex classes are on node teamfighting and fights going well playstyle wise until a necro goes lich and starts spamming 4.5k autos lmao or guard starts passively burning players for high damage or within that medium length fight a dh drops 2-3 rotations of his traps cuz their low CD's. These types of playstyles are not healthy and on top due to their skill designs even if not built for it they can be pretty tanky as well.
    Decrease lich CD to 120
    Nerf its damage on autos by 15% but lose ranged, melee range only or
    Nerf auto damage 30% but keep the ranged autos.
    Do that and necros are pretty balanced.

    30% on autos is more reasonable 50% is huge.

    Having 50% less damage whats that like 2k? plus with 150 sec cd or even less is huge.

    Yeah when I considered it after i typed it I agree 50% is to large of a nerf for any skill. Imo small nerfs that are tested over time and reassessed is a better approach than just hammering any skill with a huge nerf. Even a 25% instead of 30% would prob be significant enough as 30% is a big nerf at once. Unfortunately anet doesn't usually fallow this precedence.

  • @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:
    Necro can definitely carry some players many hundred mmr higher than there intended rating. What I don’t get about your post is why u always talk about high-end play and balance as if theres something glorious about a small part of the population. Maybe ur just a fan boi, what am I supposed to think

    Nothing more to add

    I talk about high-end play because like I said: you don't balance around players who are using it wrong. If you don't understand why then you have never been a high-end player in any game. PVP falls apart when you balance around bad players because there's no incentive to get better and good players that would prop up the mode through thousands of hours of play simply leave.

  • Flumek.9043Flumek.9043 Member ✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Filip.7463 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Filip.7463 said:

    @Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

    @Norbe.7630 said:
    I dont think necros OP
    i dont think everyone thinks necros op

    @Filip.7463 said:
    Who said necro is OP or broken?

    It's more Lich Form that they are complaining about, due to what @Ragnar.4257 mentioned about 2v2 seasons.

    Lots of debate could go on about Lich Form being ok or needing nerfs. But before discussing Lich, players should acknowledge that the bulk of the complaints vs. Lich stems from 2v2 seasons, where a round can be won in 30s from a single use of Lich, and then the Lich resets its CD when the new round begins, bypassing its intended long ICD. This is a problem with 2v2/3v3 format, not Lich Form. No one complains about Lich in 5v5 conquest.

    @Axl.8924 said:
    There is someone on nec forum asking for nerfs.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/117932/necro-deserves-a-solid-nerf-especially-reaper-in-pvp-and-especially-wvw#latest

    the person seems to be a noob ranger complaining about necromancer

    All Rangers hard counter all Necros. Any Ranger who complains about Necromancer is certainly a bad player.

    Lich is for noobs, 150s CD. Easy to kite lich, dodge, reflect, block - its like 0 velocity.
    Good players use chilled to the bone

    you mean 75s cd, 1,25s cast time " enemy loses 1 dodge "
    vs 150s cd " enemy has to give up for 10s "

    Ever heard for dodge, block, reflect, aegis, retalitation?
    Guard and scrapper can block lich for whole team and usually there is a guard in each team since its very common class.

    Oh and necro has to exit lich if there are some condis on him ;)

    I did, its much easier to block/blind/dodge once then do it for 10s, which is why lich is OP. yes proj block/reflect is a hard counter, but most classes cant really afford to take those
    Oh and necro can use their 1200 range to use the lich safely and not run into the condis. :)

    Bad troll.

    Half the meta specs use focus/shields anyway, the reflect is just bonus.
    Then a third gets completely free projectile hate like heal on rev. The rest is actual blind and blocks which most have a ton of also.

    But ur biggest fail is calling lich a 1200 range :) omegaLUL if that thing hits anything past 120 range - it can be considered your own fault and missplay for not sidestepping it

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:
    Necro can definitely carry some players many hundred mmr higher than there intended rating. What I don’t get about your post is why u always talk about high-end play and balance as if theres something glorious about a small part of the population. Maybe ur just a fan boi, what am I supposed to think

    Nothing more to add

    I talk about high-end play because like I said: you don't balance around players who are using it wrong. If you don't understand why then you have never been a high-end player in any game. PVP falls apart when you balance around bad players because there's no incentive to get better and good players that would prop up the mode through thousands of hours of play simply leave.

    Are u really gonna claim I’ve never been top teir. I thought I were a fan boi who plays necro in g3/p1

  • @Axl.8924 said:
    Well guess i'm alone on thinking that 150s is absurd if they gut the damage. Maybe if its reduced in CD.

    You're not. I suggested spreading the damage out over the skills and then cutting the elite cd heavily since it's like the only useful elite they have for single/small target damage.

    The "Balance" is a fantasy -- another mortal superstition.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    Well guess i'm alone on thinking that 150s is absurd if they gut the damage. Maybe if its reduced in CD.

    You're not. I suggested spreading the damage out over the skills and then cutting the elite cd heavily since it's like the only useful elite they have for single/small target damage.

    What i'm more worried about is gutting necro damage with lich that it becomes one of those useless things with huge cd and nothing given back to balance out the killpower.

    They gutted Ele mesmers for instance and others.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:
    Necro can definitely carry some players many hundred mmr higher than there intended rating. What I don’t get about your post is why u always talk about high-end play and balance as if theres something glorious about a small part of the population. Maybe ur just a fan boi, what am I supposed to think

    Nothing more to add

    I talk about high-end play because like I said: you don't balance around players who are using it wrong. If you don't understand why then you have never been a high-end player in any game. PVP falls apart when you balance around bad players because there's no incentive to get better and good players that would prop up the mode through thousands of hours of play simply leave.

    Are u really gonna claim I’ve never been top teir. I thought I were a fan boi who plays necro in g3/p1

    If you think balance should be around people who don't know how to play, yes.

  • @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:
    Necro can definitely carry some players many hundred mmr higher than there intended rating. What I don’t get about your post is why u always talk about high-end play and balance as if theres something glorious about a small part of the population. Maybe ur just a fan boi, what am I supposed to think

    Nothing more to add

    I talk about high-end play because like I said: you don't balance around players who are using it wrong. If you don't understand why then you have never been a high-end player in any game. PVP falls apart when you balance around bad players because there's no incentive to get better and good players that would prop up the mode through thousands of hours of play simply leave.

    Are u really gonna claim I’ve never been top teir. I thought I were a fan boi who plays necro in g3/p1

    If you think balance should be around people who don't know how to play, yes.

    Everyone can reach g3 in 1month or 2, sorry

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    Well guess i'm alone on thinking that 150s is absurd if they gut the damage. Maybe if its reduced in CD.

    You're not. I suggested spreading the damage out over the skills and then cutting the elite cd heavily since it's like the only useful elite they have for single/small target damage.

    What i'm more worried about is gutting necro damage with lich that it becomes one of those useless things with huge cd and nothing given back to balance out the killpower.

    They gutted Ele mesmers for instance and others.

    What about you increase Lich form utility and reduce the cheese at the same time?

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • @Filip.7463 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:
    Necro can definitely carry some players many hundred mmr higher than there intended rating. What I don’t get about your post is why u always talk about high-end play and balance as if theres something glorious about a small part of the population. Maybe ur just a fan boi, what am I supposed to think

    Nothing more to add

    I talk about high-end play because like I said: you don't balance around players who are using it wrong. If you don't understand why then you have never been a high-end player in any game. PVP falls apart when you balance around bad players because there's no incentive to get better and good players that would prop up the mode through thousands of hours of play simply leave.

    Are u really gonna claim I’ve never been top teir. I thought I were a fan boi who plays necro in g3/p1

    If you think balance should be around people who don't know how to play, yes.

    Everyone can reach g3 in 1month or 2, sorry

    Absolutely. But I'm also not claiming to be a top-tier player.

  • @Brimstone Jack.3462 said:
    If necros were as OP and "broken" as everyone keeps pretending they are because they can't steamroll them in a single rotation, everyone would be playing them to stay competitive. Just stop already. When people who actually counterplay see you complaining like that, it looks bad. Balance is focused on high-end play because you don't balance around people not playing correctly. That would be ridiculous.

    Are their rotations and gameplay simple? Yes. Are they broken? Not a chance. Grab some cleanse and start learning to corrupt boons. You'll be fine.

    i empathize, I do, it hurts when people salt all over the forums and unnecessary nerfs are made to things which are easily counterable if they learned how to play better. Unfortunately, I don't really know that there is a way to stop people taking to forums and complaining about 'this class being too strong' when the class itself may be either equal or underpowered and there is just a skill gap between them or they are salty coz they had a bad game/no teamwork vs good teamwork, no matter if you post something like this.