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If the commander can come back to life so should Trahearne and Vlast

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  • Zola.6197Zola.6197 Member ✭✭✭

    The reason is probably “something something The Dream,” like most everything else with the sylvari. If only HoTs hadn’t been cut to hjell, we might’ve got more answers about the nature of The Dream.

    Hopefully one day...

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 20, 2021

    @Fenella.2634 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Fenella.2634 said:
    Well, alright, I also was not aware it was actually established lore from GW1 that bodies had to be in a reasonably good shape. :)

    However, that whole argument aside. What also sets apart the PC from most other resurrections in the GW universe, is that the PC did not become Risen, Awakened, a necromancer's minion or any other kind of undead. Even with resurrections being a thing in this universe, death always matters. Our circumstances were very, very special and unique. I don't suppose other characters could easily find their own Eater of Souls to kill, plus a deal with an Avatar of Grenth to make.
    So, even if Trahearne, Vlast or anyone else could somehow manage to get a body back, they would most likely not return like the PC did, but as an undead. Do we really want that? Maybe it's better to let them rest in peace.

    While you are correct that the Commander's circumstances were very unique, no resurrection results in undeath of any form simply because of the spellcaster/school of magic/magical energy involved. In GW1, resurrection spells belonged exclusively to healer classes - monks, ritualists, and paragons - which seem to utilize the school of Preservation (and mechanically, used holy/light energy)- all three also merged into the Guardian; meanwhile, undeath spells belonged exclusively to the necromancer profession (no surprise), which utilized the school of Aggression (and mechanically, dark/unholy energy). So the Commander not becoming undead is rather "the very same as all other resurrections in the GW universe".

    Wait, player gameplay deaths are canon deaths? I always thought they were just unconscious or something and the resurrection spells were not exactly resurrections.

    Players can die in gw1, and are resurrected at aptly named "resurrection shrines".

    In Gw2, players are "defeated", not dead, which is why you can revive them by tickling their feet and rubbing their tummy. Presumably player characters receive some sort of first aid when they return to waypoint, but they aren't dead.

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭

    The discussion of resurrection lore is cover for criticizing female characters. Do you have any evidence for the studio's problem with masculinity besides the existence of female characters? The imbalance between female and male characters doesn't exist. Aurene's gender and role as the protagonist only qualifies as evidence if you are predisposed towards not wanting female protagonists. Can you offer a positive description of masculinity that isn't being displayed by the female characters?

    weathering's everything

  • @Fenella.2634 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Fenella.2634 said:
    Well, alright, I also was not aware it was actually established lore from GW1 that bodies had to be in a reasonably good shape. :)

    However, that whole argument aside. What also sets apart the PC from most other resurrections in the GW universe, is that the PC did not become Risen, Awakened, a necromancer's minion or any other kind of undead. Even with resurrections being a thing in this universe, death always matters. Our circumstances were very, very special and unique. I don't suppose other characters could easily find their own Eater of Souls to kill, plus a deal with an Avatar of Grenth to make.
    So, even if Trahearne, Vlast or anyone else could somehow manage to get a body back, they would most likely not return like the PC did, but as an undead. Do we really want that? Maybe it's better to let them rest in peace.

    While you are correct that the Commander's circumstances were very unique, no resurrection results in undeath of any form simply because of the spellcaster/school of magic/magical energy involved. In GW1, resurrection spells belonged exclusively to healer classes - monks, ritualists, and paragons - which seem to utilize the school of Preservation (and mechanically, used holy/light energy)- all three also merged into the Guardian; meanwhile, undeath spells belonged exclusively to the necromancer profession (no surprise), which utilized the school of Aggression (and mechanically, dark/unholy energy). So the Commander not becoming undead is rather "the very same as all other resurrections in the GW universe".

    Wait, player gameplay deaths are canon deaths? I always thought they were just unconscious or something and the resurrection spells were not exactly resurrections.

    It's a blurry area. Reyna has dialogue talking about how the group died, lampshading the henchmen AI. So it's presumable that it has occurred in canon.

    "Remember all those times we were dying and I was the only one left standing but I used my signet on Alesia instead of you only to have her die while attempting to restore Lina's life? Yeah, good times. Good times."

    But those spells existing is indeed canon, as they're even mentioned in the Battle for Khylo short story.

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    Hmm..
    I'm going to throw this one out there but I don't think the physical "condition" of the corpse is as relevant as some of you have been arguing about here.

    Thinking back on Gw1.. Minions were a thing and back then they used and were made from corpses, so you could die and your corpse could have been defiled to create minions and you could still be resurrected despite your spine and muscular system running around smacking things, you simply get new ones XD
    I know this is just a mechanical thing but lets just consider it for the sake of argument.

    When you die in these games your soul finds it's way to the mists, I would say that this natural process is basically the time limit for resurrection before your soul becomes part of the mists and there is no longer enough life in your body for you to be resurrected.
    Once the Soul is gone for too long, resurrection becomes almost impossible.
    In Gw1 resurrection magic was very common as Konig has pointed out several times and yet there were still deaths in the game which all ultimately shared a common circumstance.
    That being there were no friendly beings around to revive them in time.. so they died for good.

    Gadd, Togo, and Ahtok had several allies nearby to revive them. Ahtok dies right in front of us, even, with no immediate pressure to not resurrect. But they still died permanently. Gadd and Ahtok died via explosion - their bodies were no doubt highly mangled (Ahtok's doesn't look so for obvious mechanical reasons). If he was able to, I feel confident that Vekk would have resurrected Gadd - Gadd still had a body to be cremated, so it wasn't outright gone.

    And if being made undead doesn't prevent resurrection in lore, then why do no undead get "unkilled" and resurrected?

    So it stands to reason that there is a "point of no return" for how mangled a body can be and still be viable for resurrection. The question is mostly just where is that point?

    The only real confirmations about "what's beyond that point" would be "exploded body" and "rotten body".

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Touchme.1097Touchme.1097 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2021

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    The discussion of resurrection lore is cover for criticizing female characters. Do you have any evidence for the studio's problem with masculinity besides the existence of female characters? The imbalance between female and male characters doesn't exist. Aurene's gender and role as the protagonist only qualifies as evidence if you are predisposed towards not wanting female protagonists. Can you offer a positive description of masculinity that isn't being displayed by the female characters?

    If you rearranged your reply in a more polite manner I could have answered back, I have never written in my discussions that I don't like female characters, I have pointed out what I don't like about both female and male characters in other posts actually...Aurene is the only female voiced dragon and it has already been gendered, I am all for equality here to spare some words for Vlast. Your false accusations make no sense. I think we all missed the chance to dive deep into Vlast's story and now that he is dead I feel upset because he didn't have a chance.

  • Malyck would be a great male character to bring back and put into a positive light.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 21, 2021

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Fenella.2634 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Fenella.2634 said:
    Well, alright, I also was not aware it was actually established lore from GW1 that bodies had to be in a reasonably good shape. :)

    However, that whole argument aside. What also sets apart the PC from most other resurrections in the GW universe, is that the PC did not become Risen, Awakened, a necromancer's minion or any other kind of undead. Even with resurrections being a thing in this universe, death always matters. Our circumstances were very, very special and unique. I don't suppose other characters could easily find their own Eater of Souls to kill, plus a deal with an Avatar of Grenth to make.
    So, even if Trahearne, Vlast or anyone else could somehow manage to get a body back, they would most likely not return like the PC did, but as an undead. Do we really want that? Maybe it's better to let them rest in peace.

    While you are correct that the Commander's circumstances were very unique, no resurrection results in undeath of any form simply because of the spellcaster/school of magic/magical energy involved. In GW1, resurrection spells belonged exclusively to healer classes - monks, ritualists, and paragons - which seem to utilize the school of Preservation (and mechanically, used holy/light energy)- all three also merged into the Guardian; meanwhile, undeath spells belonged exclusively to the necromancer profession (no surprise), which utilized the school of Aggression (and mechanically, dark/unholy energy). So the Commander not becoming undead is rather "the very same as all other resurrections in the GW universe".

    Wait, player gameplay deaths are canon deaths? I always thought they were just unconscious or something and the resurrection spells were not exactly resurrections.

    It's a blurry area. Reyna has dialogue talking about how the group died, lampshading the henchmen AI. So it's presumable that it has occurred in canon.

    "Remember all those times we were dying and I was the only one left standing but I used my signet on Alesia instead of you only to have her die while attempting to restore Lina's life? Yeah, good times. Good times."

    But those spells existing is indeed canon, as they're even mentioned in the Battle for Khylo short story.

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    Hmm..
    I'm going to throw this one out there but I don't think the physical "condition" of the corpse is as relevant as some of you have been arguing about here.

    Thinking back on Gw1.. Minions were a thing and back then they used and were made from corpses, so you could die and your corpse could have been defiled to create minions and you could still be resurrected despite your spine and muscular system running around smacking things, you simply get new ones XD
    I know this is just a mechanical thing but lets just consider it for the sake of argument.

    When you die in these games your soul finds it's way to the mists, I would say that this natural process is basically the time limit for resurrection before your soul becomes part of the mists and there is no longer enough life in your body for you to be resurrected.
    Once the Soul is gone for too long, resurrection becomes almost impossible.
    In Gw1 resurrection magic was very common as Konig has pointed out several times and yet there were still deaths in the game which all ultimately shared a common circumstance.
    That being there were no friendly beings around to revive them in time.. so they died for good.

    Gadd, Togo, and Ahtok had several allies nearby to revive them. Ahtok dies right in front of us, even, with no immediate pressure to not resurrect. But they still died permanently. Gadd and Ahtok died via explosion - their bodies were no doubt highly mangled (Ahtok's doesn't look so for obvious mechanical reasons). If he was able to, I feel confident that Vekk would have resurrected Gadd - Gadd still had a body to be cremated, so it wasn't outright gone.

    And if being made undead doesn't prevent resurrection in lore, then why do no undead get "unkilled" and resurrected?

    So it stands to reason that there is a "point of no return" for how mangled a body can be and still be viable for resurrection. The question is mostly just where is that point?

    The only real confirmations about "what's beyond that point" would be "exploded body" and "rotten body".

    A relatively intact corpse does seem to play some role although there are some contradictions at play when you factor in the minion mechanic which defiles a corpse.. although it is largely left intact in a manner of speaking.

    I think rotten body could easily be attributed with time past and the "lack of life" left in a corpse.

    But I don't think you're wrong about the exploded body element, although how much of a body is required for resurrection is a whole other question.
    Can someone with one arm be revived? one leg? do you only need the major vital organs? if a body was blown apart but you were able to recover the head and torso would that be enough?
    Would a dismembered body have an even shorter resurrection time than an intact corpse?.. as life could leave it quicker or something..

    I dunno, but I think vaporisation is a definite nope.. and with Gadd at least if they were able to bury something it stands to reason that they couldn't find enough of him in time to revive him.
    Togo I believe you said was used to fuel the resurrection of Shiro so I assume Shiro used all the life that was in his body to do this thus resurrection was impossible.
    I must admit I don't remember Ahtok though, I have very little memory of Nightfall and haven't played it in a long time.
    It is said on his wiki page though his soul was sent to the realm of torment.. not the underworld so that could have been why he couldn't be resurrected as his spirit was not under the dominion of Grenth who allowed resurrection but rather Abaddon.

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭

    @Touchme.1097 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    The discussion of resurrection lore is cover for criticizing female characters. Do you have any evidence for the studio's problem with masculinity besides the existence of female characters? The imbalance between female and male characters doesn't exist. Aurene's gender and role as the protagonist only qualifies as evidence if you are predisposed towards not wanting female protagonists. Can you offer a positive description of masculinity that isn't being displayed by the female characters?

    If you rearranged your reply in a more polite manner I could have answered back, I have never written in my discussions that I don't like female characters, I have pointed out what I don't like about both female and male characters in other posts actually...Aurene is the only female voiced dragon and it has already been gendered, I am all for equality here to spare some words for Vlast. Your false accusations make no sense. I think we all missed the chance to dive deep into Vlast's story and now that he is dead I feel upset because he didn't have a chance.

    Who are you kidding? Many of us would liked to see more of Vlast, but you are the only framing it as a choice between male and female characters. If you don't have a problem with female characters, why are you framing your argument as the studio's failure with masculinity? Where is this failure? Vlast's death is not evidence of a failure. The only thing you offer as evidence is Aurene's gender.

    weathering's everything

  • @Teratus.2859 said:
    A relatively intact corpse does seem to play some role although there are some contradictions at play when you factor in the minion mechanic which defiles a corpse.. although it is largely left intact in a manner of speaking.

    There's also the manner of separation of mechanics and lore with minion skills, and the inability to do so without dialogue or scripted sequences.

    I must admit I don't remember Ahtok though, I have very little memory of Nightfall and haven't played it in a long time.

    Ahtok is a minor but reoccurring sunspear character in NF, he was part of Lonai's squad IIRC and is most prevailant for NF-originating characters as most of his screentime is in Istan. He dies in the first 5 seconds of the Consulate Docks mission (attacking Gandara) to a siege artillery (fulfilling a bit of irony where in Istan he says the worst way to die is by siege artillery), but returns as a ghost in the Realm of Torment to help guide us to Kormir and the Gate of Madness.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Touchme.1097Touchme.1097 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2021

    @Psientist.6437 said:

    @Touchme.1097 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    The discussion of resurrection lore is cover for criticizing female characters. Do you have any evidence for the studio's problem with masculinity besides the existence of female characters? The imbalance between female and male characters doesn't exist. Aurene's gender and role as the protagonist only qualifies as evidence if you are predisposed towards not wanting female protagonists. Can you offer a positive description of masculinity that isn't being displayed by the female characters?

    If you rearranged your reply in a more polite manner I could have answered back, I have never written in my discussions that I don't like female characters, I have pointed out what I don't like about both female and male characters in other posts actually...Aurene is the only female voiced dragon and it has already been gendered, I am all for equality here to spare some words for Vlast. Your false accusations make no sense. I think we all missed the chance to dive deep into Vlast's story and now that he is dead I feel upset because he didn't have a chance.

    Who are you kidding? Many of us would liked to see more of Vlast, but you are the only framing it as a choice between male and female characters. If you don't have a problem with female characters, why are you framing your argument as the studio's failure with masculinity? Where is this failure? Vlast's death is not evidence of a failure. The only thing you offer as evidence is Aurene's gender.

    Masculinity was only a marginal part of this thread, you are exaggerating things making it look like a major argument on purpose for unknown reasons.
    I can't talk about gender equality and masculinity in this forum because the forum's policies are limiting my freedom of speech and you are trying hard to fish for something to blame on me, this is backed up by your previous post: "Aurene's gender and role as the protagonist only qualifies as evidence if you are predisposed towards not wanting female protagonists".
    I would say you are being very rude to address people this way publicly and writing lies in order to manipulate information in order to win an argument and I am surprised none of the moderators have stepped forward to delete your post. I don't know how you define or how you value masculinity but I can tell you since we lost Trahearne and Vlast the game is lacking male role models especially for all the positive qualities a manly man can embody, the commander now has taken the role of the one who is leading the story, leading an army, always trying hard to answer perfectly in any situation, always working hard and taking responsibility to solve everything, including someone else's problems, always trying to be reasonable and then you have to share the story with NPCs who are in love with each other like Faolin and Caithe, Caithe and Aurene, Kasmeer+Mrjory, all these sisteromances are so abundant they make me sick because when it comes to male characters Trahearne who took the mantle of the pact marshal was killed off and hated for meaningless reasons, Braham acting like a disobedient brat who is stubborn and doesn't listen the commander because he is so full of adrenaline and insecure that he keeps throwing himself into dangerous situations without planning, than we have to share the story with Logan who is not directly helpful and not very present and he has this relationship with Queen Jenna as if she was the princess in distress he must save all the time and if the queen needs him he won't help the commander or the pact, GW2 started with a Queen, where is the King? Vlast made a short appearance and suddenly went boom, exploded as if the writers didn't want to invest brainpower and time on a male character, as a result the protagonists are mostly females, excluding the commander which can be anything, and there is little value given to manliness. I am not here to blame anyone working on the game, I am only pointing out what the game is missing and what can be adjusted to improve the reputation and he likeness of the NPCs and how the story is progressing.

    *-I want to see male characters who are capable to lead part of the story.
    *-I don't want to play the perfect commander all the time because that is boring.
    *-I want to see more male characters putting their brain together and being able to cooperate.
    *-I want to see some bromance because the game is full of sisteromance already.
    *-I really want to see at least an NPC making me feel involved in the story, someone like a bro I can trust and works with me to progress the story and make me feel rewarded for cooperating with other NPCs.

    I don't know where you come from and if my value are as positive as your values when it comes to these sort of debates but I am not having any nonsense from anyone and if you want further philosophical arguments with me I advice you to use the private messaging or discord. If you want a fair and civilized exchange with other people you really have to curb this habit of making assumptions and falsely interpret other people's claims because that is not something that leads to a positive debate.

  • voltaicbore.8012voltaicbore.8012 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Knuckle Joe.7408 said:
    Malyck would be a great male character to bring back and put into a positive light.

    Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaas a thousand times for this. The Malyck story is one particular thread I really wish ANet picks back up in some form. He also lacks the baggage surrounding the other characters mentioned in the thread.

  • Zola.6197Zola.6197 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 23, 2021

    What do you define as “sisteromance?” Because if the opposite of that is bromance, Caithe and Faolain, Marjory and Kasmeer don’t fit that description based on the fact their relationships were/are romantic. Bromance is typically portrayed as platonic and intimate, but not romantic or sexual. If you want more male x male romantic relationships, that’s something I’d love to see, but that doesn’t seem to be your desire. I’d be down for more “bros” or platonic “bromantic” relationships, too. As it stands, there are no platonic “sisteromances” between female characters either.

    I have to agree with Psientist’s sentiments. Your argument feels tainted by a dislike for the female characters, more specifically that the game (in your seeming opinion) would dare to focus on them over male characters. Your argument would come off less biased if you simply said “I’d like to see more male characters that are [insert traits here],” but instead you disparage female characters, their positions of power, and their relationships with other female characters like those are bad things. If that’s not what you mean, don’t bring up female characters as an issue/obstacle getting in the way of interesting male characters.

    The fact that Aurene is a “female” dragon has absolutely zero relevance to the reasons Vlast died. You can just say, “hey, we have Aurene. I’d love to see a good aligned male dragon too! Vlast was a cool character and a missed opportunity.” Most everyone would agree with that, but then you include all these irrelevant comments about female characters lol.

    Why is there no King in Kryta? Because Jennah hasn’t married. Why is Logan’s lack of commitment to Destiny’s Edge Jennah’s fault? She called for her most trusted knight when she felt threatened, and he chose to abandon his allies for his Queen. Whether wrong or right, that was his choice. There’s no indication that Jennah forced him to come to her aid as far as I remember, or that he’d face punishment for ignoring her request. It’s always been framed by the narrative that his love of Jennah was stronger than his love for his companions. I’m sure a lore buff will correct me if I’m wrong.

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    I think Braham is actually on a really good way. Sure, he was a brat in LS3, but he was a teenager who had lost his mother and who took on a role that was too much for him at the time.

    Right now, IF he survives the IBS, he may be on his way to become one of the most awesome havrouns ever. I do hope he wont have to sacrifice himself, he's still so young.

    Laranthir could have been someone you'd like, but for some reason he was put on a bus in favor of Jhavi. I hope there's a story-relevant reason for that and he's doing something interesting in the background.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fenella.2634 said:
    Laranthir could have been someone you'd like, but for some reason he was put on a bus in favor of Jhavi. I hope there's a story-relevant reason for that and he's doing something interesting in the background.

    The reason was likely Jahvi is a descendant of Jora, who has a personal connection to Jormag, via Drakkar's manipulation of Svanir, so it made sense to have her be forefront so she could get some measure of vengeance for what Jormag/Drakkar did to her family.

  • Touchme.1097Touchme.1097 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2021

    @Svennis.3852 said:
    What do you define as “sisteromance?” Because if the opposite of that is bromance, Caithe and Faolain, Marjory and Kasmeer don’t fit that description based on the fact their relationships were/are romantic. Bromance is typically portrayed as platonic and intimate, but not romantic or sexual. If you want more male x male romantic relationships, that’s something I’d love to see, but that doesn’t seem to be your desire. I’d be down for more “bros” or platonic “bromantic” relationships, too. As it stands, there are no platonic “sisteromances” between female characters either.

    I have to agree with Psientist’s sentiments. Your argument feels tainted by a dislike for the female characters, more specifically that the game (in your seeming opinion) would dare to focus on them over male characters. Your argument would come off less biased if you simply said “I’d like to see more male characters that are [insert traits here],” but instead you disparage female characters, their positions of power, and their relationships with other female characters like those are bad things. If that’s not what you mean, don’t bring up female characters as an issue/obstacle getting in the way of interesting male characters.

    The fact that Aurene is a “female” dragon has absolutely zero relevance to the reasons Vlast died. You can just say, “hey, we have Aurene. I’d love to see a good aligned male dragon too! Vlast was a cool character and a missed opportunity.” Most everyone would agree with that, but then you include all these irrelevant comments about female characters lol.

    Why is there no King in Kryta? Because Jennah hasn’t married. Why is Logan’s lack of commitment to Destiny’s Edge Jennah’s fault? She called for her most trusted knight when she felt threatened, and he chose to abandon his allies for his Queen. Whether wrong or right, that was his choice. There’s no indication that Jennah forced him to come to her aid as far as I remember, or that he’d face punishment for ignoring her request. It’s always been framed by the narrative that his love of Jennah was stronger than his love for his companions. I’m sure a lore buff will correct me if I’m wrong.

    Thank you for pointing out a flaw in my argument, let me rephrase it, I think there are enough sexually/romantic relationships between female NPCs and sisteromances in this game and I want to see more of these kind of relationships on the male side of the NPCs especially bromances.
    I don't hate female characters because they are females, I am not a misogynyst and you shouldn't even consider it as an option as it will instantly result in a report from me because I consider that offensive because it's not true. I think everyone should feel free to criticize female characters and talk about masculinity without being labeled as a misogynyst.

  • Zola.6197Zola.6197 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 24, 2021

    @Touchme.1097 said:
    Thank you for pointing out a flaw in my argument, let me rephrase it, I think there are enough sexually/romantic relationships between female NPCs and sisteromances in this game and I want to see more of these kind of relationships on the male side of the NPCs especially bromances.
    I don't hate female characters because they are females, I am not a misogynyst and you shouldn't even consider it as an option as it will instantly result in a report from me because I consider that offensive because it's not true. I think everyone should feel free to criticize female characters and talk about masculinity without being labeled as a misogynyst.

    I haven't accused you as such, nor used that term. If you are worried about your words being labeled as such, then you should be more careful about your word choice. If the issue you want to discuss is how you'd like more male characters, do not arbitrarily bring up female characters as part of the issue.

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

    @Fenella.2634 said:
    Laranthir could have been someone you'd like, but for some reason he was put on a bus in favor of Jhavi. I hope there's a story-relevant reason for that and he's doing something interesting in the background.

    The reason was likely Jahvi is a descendant of Jora, who has a personal connection to Jormag, via Drakkar's manipulation of Svanir, so it made sense to have her be forefront so she could get some measure of vengeance for what Jormag/Drakkar did to her family.

    Yes, and I wish they had done more with that plot, but well... However, was it really necessary to make her Almorra's successor for her to act? After basically the first thing we learned about Laranthir was that he was supposed to take over the Vigil if Almorra dies? They had the same rank, sure, and time has passed and opinions can change, but this came a bit out of nowhere. I highly doubt Almorra suddenly changed her mind because of Jhavi's family history. That might have been the writers' reason, but ingame it must have been something else.

  • LSD.4673LSD.4673 Member ✭✭

    @Svennis.3852 said:

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Svennis.3852 said:
    Boys drool and girls rule, sorry.

    Also, most of the player population greatly disliked Trahearne. It is a shame Vlast had such a sad life that ended as soon as we met him.

    There are lots of prominent male characters that are fine. And if the forums are to be believed, everyone hates the female characters too, so no one is really winning. Personally I think most of the cast is fine, we just need a more consistent writing team.

    Not disagreeing with you about the rest but Trahearne was great. It was a very interesting character, with a good story arc. He should come back as a dragon avatar and bring Vlast with him. And both together help us to defeat the dragons.

    'Trahearne was great' has not been a popular opinion for the vast majority of the game's history. If the opinion is changing over time in an 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' sort of way, so be it. But leading up to Heart of Thorns, the community was begging for Trahearne to be executed for 'stealing the spotlight' (which is something the forum/reddit communities still do regarding... most main characters lol).

    Personally, I didn't mind the character. I thought the voice acting/direction was horrendous, and therefore hated having to listen to the character speak (a problem I also have with the female Sylvari PC - sorry Jennifer Hale, love you in everything else).

    While I wouldn't really mind the character returning in theory with a new voice actor or better direction, I am tired of death being a trifle in the game's setting. A lot of major deaths have lost impact because characters simply return as ghosts now. I personally did not like the Commander dying and coming back to life either. I would like death to be more final in this franchise, and characters only killed off when really necessary.

    They fixed him "stealing the spotlight" in 2014 by having his lines rewritten and rerecorded. He's by and large the best written character in the game now. Shame his death was kinda dumb.

  • Fipmip.7219Fipmip.7219 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 26, 2021

    I still think people are sleeping on logan. While I was fine with trahearne, his death would be cheapened by resurrecting him. Logan is a fairly similar character in terms of his ability to lead (trahearne was apprehensive at first but quickly proved to be just as capable). He also has great chemistry with rytlock. If there's any room for more bro moments in the story, its by using logan more.