Herald's Forceful Persistence bugged? — Guild Wars 2 Forums
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Herald's Forceful Persistence bugged?

To begin: I asked support and they didn't help (who would expect that, huh), so maybe I'll have more luck with the player community, which is apparently the only reliable source of info about the game...

Now, the issue / question:
I can see absolutely no difference in damage with and without Forceful Persistence train on Herald. Thre is no notification icon for it (like Hardening Presence or Steadfast Rejuvenation have), and the damage values of attacks remain unchanged with an upkeep skill (Embrace the Darkness, Vengeful Hammers, or anything else) activated.

The description is absolutely terrible: there's no skill that has type Upkeep, so I have to assume that these are the ones that deplete Herald's energy (like the ones I mentioned above). But... What are Herald Skills??? Facets? These, as described on wiki, provide no boost at all...

So, does anyone have any clue how this trait works, or rather - if it works at all???

Comments

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2021

    @wilku.9764 said:
    To begin: I asked support and they didn't help (who would expect that, huh), so maybe I'll have more luck with the player community, which is apparently the only reliable source of info about the game...

    Now, the issue / question:
    I can see absolutely no difference in damage with and without Forceful Persistence train on Herald. Thre is no notification icon for it (like Hardening Presence or Steadfast Rejuvenation have), and the damage values of attacks remain unchanged with an upkeep skill (Embrace the Darkness, Vengeful Hammers, or anything else) activated.

    The description is absolutely terrible: there's no skill that has type Upkeep, so I have to assume that these are the ones that deplete Herald's energy (like the ones I mentioned above). But... What are Herald Skills??? Facets? These, as described on wiki, provide no boost at all...

    So, does anyone have any clue how this trait works, or rather - if it works at all???

    • This trait has replaced Enhanced Bulwark. Forceful Persistence increases outgoing damage by 13% while the revenant has an active upkeep skill when not channeling Glint. While channeling Glint, it increases outgoing damage per active facet by 4% in PvE and 3% in PvP and WvW.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forceful_Persistence

    So looks like its the facets when your in glint, and I guess the other utilities like Assassin Impossible Odds, Centaur Project Tranquility, Demon Embrace the Darkness, Dwarf Vengeful Hammers,

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2021

    Upkeep
    Certain revenant skills can be activated indefinitely, but, while active, they have an upkeep cost which acts as a negative modifier to the energy regeneration rate. If a skill would cause you to have more than -10 upkeep (-5 total regen), it cannot be activated. If energy reaches 0%, even if total regen is positive, all upkeep skills will end and go on recharge for 5 seconds.

    This is denoted both in-game and on the wiki with a -[number] modifier which tells a player the exact amount of upkeep cost the skill consumes.

    Knowing these revenant basics, and looking at the trait:

    Deal increased damage with active upkeep skills.
    Herald upkeep skills grant less damage but can be stacked.
    Damage increase 13%
    Herald Skill Damage Increase 4%

    We now know that using ANY upkeep skill will provide one with a 13% damage increase. With the exception of Herald, where the trait clearly states that those will give less damage increase, but will be able to get stacked. Hence using multiple facets will stack the bonus granting 4% at 1 facet, 8% at 2, 12% at 3, 16% at 4 and 20% at 5.

    Not sure how this is confusing. Yes the trait works. If you were not seeing any difference you were running a sloppy test with some errors in your methodology.

  • I read the wiki. I know how it is SUPPOSED to work.

    I just can't see it work, and I still don't know the difference betwen an upkeep skill and a herald skill. I **guess **that a "Herald" skill is Glint's facet.
    In any case, it doesn't work, or the bonus is somehow hidden. I didn't notice any dmg increase either with or from any upkeep skills.

    PLUS: a sample of "brilliant" support explanation:
    "Forceful Persistence is a skill that increases character damage, and is buffed further with active upkeep skills. As it has no icon, it will not show above your skill bar. Additionally, as you are able to see here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forceful_Persistence, it does not work when the character is channeling Glint. As Facets are all related to Glint, you will not receive buffs, or any additional damage, when using a Facet."

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2021

    @wilku.9764 said:
    I read the wiki. I know how it is SUPPOSED to work.

    I just can't see it work, and I still don't know the difference betwen an upkeep skill and a herald skill. I **guess **that a "Herald" skill is Glint's facet.
    In any case, it doesn't work, or the bonus is somehow hidden. I didn't notice any dmg increase either with or from any upkeep skills.

    PLUS: a sample of "brilliant" support explanation:
    "Forceful Persistence is a skill that increases character damage, and is buffed further with active upkeep skills. As it has no icon, it will not show above your skill bar. Additionally, as you are able to see here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forceful_Persistence, it does not work when the character is channeling Glint. As Facets are all related to Glint, you will not receive buffs, or any additional damage, when using a Facet."

    So you do the exact same damge sword 1 with no facet on and with 1 facet 2 facets 3 facets etc?

    And I just showed you some channel skills.
    Go do sword 1 on golem without dwarf vengful hammers on, then do the same test with it on and check if sword auto attack increase with 13%

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 14, 2021

    @wilku.9764 said:
    I read the wiki. I know how it is SUPPOSED to work.

    I just can't see it work, and I still don't know the difference betwen an upkeep skill and a herald skill. I **guess **that a "Herald" skill is Glint's facet.
    In any case, it doesn't work, or the bonus is somehow hidden. I didn't notice any dmg increase either with or from any upkeep skills.

    PLUS: a sample of "brilliant" support explanation:
    "Forceful Persistence is a skill that increases character damage, and is buffed further with active upkeep skills. As it has no icon, it will not show above your skill bar. Additionally, as you are able to see here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Forceful_Persistence, it does not work when the character is channeling Glint. As Facets are all related to Glint, you will not receive buffs, or any additional damage, when using a Facet."

    Test on golem just now:
    Golem - 1 million HP, average size

    Boons Self (as to prevent contamination via facet provided boons):
    25 Might, Fury, Swiftness

    Class Specific Combat Enhancements and Food+Utility (as to get as close to 100% to prevent crit luck contamination):

    • Spotter
    • Banner of Discipline
    • 100 Power, 70 Precision
    • Potent Sharpening Stone

    Final crit: 99,76%

    Only auto-attack from the front of the golem until golem death. Stats were the same across all testing.

    Damage Test Results:
    No Facet Active:
    7,649 DPS
    131s combat time

    1 Facet Active:
    7,932 DPS (7932/7649 = 1.0369)
    126s combat time

    2 Facet Active:
    8,096 DPS (8906/7649= 1.0584)
    124s combat time

    3 Facet Active:
    8,370 DPS (8370/7649= 1.0942)
    120s combat time

    4 Facet Active:
    8,670 DPS (8670/7649= 1.1334)
    116s combat time

    Shiro Impossible Odds, no FP:
    11,941 DPS
    84s combat time

    Shiro Impossible Odds, with FP:
    13,282 DPS (13282/11941= 1.1123)
    75s combat time

    If we assume some RNG on the remaining 0.24% crit and damage ranged on weapon swings and slight desynchronization on vulnerability uptime (I forgot to add the condition and didn't feel like rerunning the test since it seemed conclusive enough) and the golem dying with different amount of overkill damage done (aka sometimes the damage done above 1 million HP was more, sometimes less), I'd say the trait works as advertised. Not sure what test you ran.

  • Wow. Thank you for such a comprehensive test. That does change my view on the issue.
    Really, much appreciated.

    What left me confusing is that there is no visual indicatior of FP "kicking in" - for example:

    • Hardedning Presence has an icon with number of stacks appearing along other applied effects
    • Might has an icon with stacks + it actualy influences the values shown in tooltips, when you hover over your attack skills.

    Then again - I am really grateful for the test you made and I'm once again reassured that player community is absolutely great in this game.
    Thanks!

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah probably an oversight or not intended to get added. The important part is the trait seems to be fine, so don't worry about it and feel free to use it. :+1: