GW2Raidar - Log Parsing, Stat's and Data Driven Benchmarks — Guild Wars 2 Forums

GW2Raidar - Log Parsing, Stat's and Data Driven Benchmarks

Hello GW2 forums,

I figured I'd drop this here as well since not everyone here uses reddit and with the recent discussions about meta vs non meta and the like, I thought this might be a handy resource for any raiders, new and old.

What is GW2Raidar?

GW2 Raidar is a online website that basically parsers logs generated by ArcDPS. We then take all that information to provide your standard raid reports, however with a difference.

  1. All reports are saved so you can easily review them whenever you like.
  2. Using data from these reports, we create global metrics to measure everything against.
  3. This means you have access to your very own raid profile to compare yourself against the general raiding populace.
  4. Furthermore, we're able to use this data to provide up to date global statistics to show actual realistic benchmarks and metrics based on real data and real raid conditions.

There's a whole heap of functionality and features and things we'll continually add so why not hop in and check it out yourself if you haven't already done so? You can access it by going to www.gw2raidar.com.

Feel free to let me know any feedback you might have or suggestions or just general thoughts and commentary =). Happy raiding!

Merf

Comments

  • Swiftwynd.1685Swiftwynd.1685 Member ✭✭✭

    Can verify that Guild Wars 2 Raid Training regularly uses Raidar and it is simply fantastic.

    It gives you a realistic look at actual performance and lets you compare them with averages.

    Cannot recommend it highly enough.

  • Raif.9507Raif.9507 Member ✭✭

    This needs more support, like way more support and visibility. This is where the real info comes from that can be reliably used to gauge your own performance and what classes can do in real application.

    Warcraftlogs for gw2, just what we need.

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    Hopefully this doesn't come off as thread hijacking but could someone explain to me how to use this stuff/logs? Right now i have arcdps and only user it for watching my dps but id like to be able to use logs too and stuff.

  • hoc.8506hoc.8506 Member
    edited October 24, 2017

    I can't even begin to describe how thankful I am for Merforga and to other people involved in Gw2raidar like Amadan, Veranaday and Divides, and of course to the people giving dat sweet DATA on actual raid performance.

    Stats on real raid performance are vastly better for a person learning to dps on raids than training golem dps checks( which do have their place aswell) as a gauge on your own performance. These kind of stats actually help you learn a LOT faster. Eventually, when stat visualization gets detailed enough, you can go through the encounter second by second on where you went wrong or what could be done better. Warcraftlogs was an essential tool for me to become a better raider and I am very exited for the potential gw2 raidar shows.

    Feel free to let me know any feedback you might have or suggestions or just general thoughts and commentary =). Happy raiding!

    1) It's hard to read the global averages properly without knowing the exact numbers of raid logs per profession. The popularity value is too vague to get a decent whiff on how reliable the stats are from a sample pov. Maybe an option to toggle to see the number of parses on each profession and specialization in the current dataset.
    This might actually have a positive effect on people to put more parses up on less popular profession.

    2) And on future development, I would absolutely love to have the ability to see and analyze people's individual raid logs and the build/equipment they are using, like in warcraftlogs. I'm guessing this is a massive undertaking, but the api allows you to show all of this.

    Anyways, thank you gw2 raidar team from the bottom of my heart. :)

    ps. I would be totally okay with some non intrusive ads on the site to help get you guys revenue to continue and expand the service.

  • I love that there is a fractal CM log too. Its a surprise seeing holosmith as a top DPS, and power spellbreaker better then power berserker in a real scenario ( funny other day i was called for being power SP instead of power Berserker on fractal CM).

  • 1) It's hard to read the global averages properly without knowing the exact numbers of raid logs per profession. The popularity value is too vague to get a decent whiff on how reliable the stats are from a sample pov. Maybe an option to toggle to see the number of parses on each profession and specialization in the current dataset.

    Yeah we were planning on adding count to the data sets but it didn't make this releases cut. It'll be added soon!

    This might actually have a positive effect on people to put more parses up on less popular profession.

    This was a part of the idea! There are some interesting insights from the global stat's perspective

    2) And on future development, I would absolutely love to have the ability to see and analyze people's individual raid logs and the build/equipment they are using, like in warcraftlogs. I'm guessing this is a massive undertaking, but the api allows you to show all of this.

    Unfort this gets a bit more tricky since we don't know what peiple are running via logs. In terms of using an api, it's not too feasible unfortunately as we'd have to take a snapshot of the build and gear during the fight... Which we can't personally XD. And after it is kinda moot as people can and often will switch gear and traits etc between fights.

    ps. I would be totally okay with some non intrusive ads on the site to help get you guys revenue to continue and expand the service.

    There is a donate button on the about us page ;)

  • Murdock.6547Murdock.6547 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2017

    I feel that few understand the impact of gw2raidar existing...

    Raids have suffered deeply from having little quantifiable data on how fights should progress and how dps classes perform in real combat.

    This is that data. We can see where groups average dps rises, peaks, and falls through the raid community and how certain classes or builds fare on average in certain fights.

    What gw2raidar provides is an invaluable tool to judge the worth of classes, comps, and other factors such as if your dmg or boon uptime is good for the fight youre in.

    I hope this project stays strong because it WILL change how we raid for the better the more people use and understand it.

  • @Murdock.6547 said:
    I feel that few understand the gravity of gw2raidar existing...

    Raids have suffered deeply from having little quantifiable data on how fights should progress and how dps classes perform in real combat.

    This is that data. We can see where groups average dps rises, peaks, and falls through the raid community and how certain classes or builds fare on average in certain fights.

    What gw2raidar provides is an invaluable tool to judge the worth of classes, comps, and other factors such as if your dmg or boon uptime is good for the fight youre in.

    I hope this project stays strong because it WILL change how we raid for the better the more people use and understand it.

    That was the original intention of it! And it still is =D

  • Great resource, @merforga.4731 . Thanks for cross-posting.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

  • Sethorus.9231Sethorus.9231 Member ✭✭
    edited October 25, 2017

    @Murdock.6547 said:
    I feel that few understand the gravity of gw2raidar existing...

    Raids have suffered deeply from having little quantifiable data on how fights should progress and how dps classes perform in real combat.

    This is that data. We can see where groups average dps rises, peaks, and falls through the raid community and how certain classes or builds fare on average in certain fights.

    What gw2raidar provides is an invaluable tool to judge the worth of classes, comps, and other factors such as if your dmg or boon uptime is good for the fight youre in.

    I hope this project stays strong because it WILL change how we raid for the better the more people use and understand it.

    I dunno why you used the word gravity though as people will just believe you have a negative opinion before reading your argument. How about "importance"

  • One of the main take home messages from these statistics is that player skill is much more important than running a particular class, at least when it comes to analysing overall damage. Of course, some classes have advantages on certain encounters, but these only matter if you can use the class effectively. The second is that the raids are fairly lenient in terms of damage required for a typical group as players finish with several minutes remaining on average.

    One of my arguments in favour of a raid analytics tool is that it allows decisions and suggestions to be made based on objective data, rather than subjective and perceived notions, although it is important to understand how to analyse it appropriately, which in my view requires multi-class raid experience. By having a more realistic set of data typical of a range of abilities, it is easier to develop more reasonable expectations. I still want to emphasise the need for understanding raid mechanics as well as how well the group is supported; and how these factors can affect the data.

    Based on the data, boss clears on average finish with several minutes remaining. One could argue that clearing faster means less mechanics, so less chances to make mistakes, but several groups could benefit from a more conservative approach (eg use Stone Spirit for extra protection - one group that I have run with uses the extra protection from Stone Spirit and never has problems with clearing related to overall damage). In some cases I think players starting out or that are having difficulties could improve greatly by using a simpler build so they can focus on mechanics more (such as Power Mesmer). While it won't be getting you speedclears anytime soon, it actually is not too far behind for some bosses.

    With this new data, I believe that the benefits of being able to compare with more realistic records outweigh the doubts, as long as the data is used appropriately as a diagnostic tool and that players analysing logs for their group provide meaningful feedback. What I hope not to see this used as is a barrier to entry, as a replacement for kill proof/experience. It is possible, after all for players to not perform as well as they are able to for various reasons (bad support, network latency etc).

  • Murdock.6547Murdock.6547 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sethorus.9231 said:

    @Murdock.6547 said:
    I feel that few understand the gravity of gw2raidar existing...

    Raids have suffered deeply from having little quantifiable data on how fights should progress and how dps classes perform in real combat.

    This is that data. We can see where groups average dps rises, peaks, and falls through the raid community and how certain classes or builds fare on average in certain fights.

    What gw2raidar provides is an invaluable tool to judge the worth of classes, comps, and other factors such as if your dmg or boon uptime is good for the fight youre in.

    I hope this project stays strong because it WILL change how we raid for the better the more people use and understand it.

    I dunno why you used the word gravity though as people will just believe you have a negative opinion before reading your argument. How about "importance"

    Such a fiddly nitpick, but a valid one I suppose. My posts of late have been rushed so my english has suffered in some cases.

  • @Murdock.6547 said:

    @Sethorus.9231 said:

    @Murdock.6547 said:
    I feel that few understand the gravity of gw2raidar existing...

    Raids have suffered deeply from having little quantifiable data on how fights should progress and how dps classes perform in real combat.

    This is that data. We can see where groups average dps rises, peaks, and falls through the raid community and how certain classes or builds fare on average in certain fights.

    What gw2raidar provides is an invaluable tool to judge the worth of classes, comps, and other factors such as if your dmg or boon uptime is good for the fight youre in.

    I hope this project stays strong because it WILL change how we raid for the better the more people use and understand it.

    I dunno why you used the word gravity though as people will just believe you have a negative opinion before reading your argument. How about "importance"

    Such a fiddly nitpick, but a valid one I suppose. My posts of late have been rushed so my english has suffered in some cases.

    Don't take it the wrong way. I was saying it with the best intentions. There is a 4 page thread of people whining or defending dps meters so I just didn't want your argument to be see in a wrong light :)

  • Wanze.8410Wanze.8410 Member ✭✭✭

    @merforga.4731 said:
    Feel free to let me know any feedback you might have or suggestions or just general thoughts and commentary =). Happy raiding!

    Merf

    Can you or someone else give me some more information of how the privacy settings exactly work on your website?
    What privacy setting is applied by default to account data inside the uploaded log files from gw2 accounts that dont have a gw2raidar account?
    When other users view that encounter, can they see character/account names of participants that dont have a gw2r account or can they only see their relevant combat data/performance numbers?
    I was also told that you can only download log files, if no one in that encounter has their setting to private.
    Whats the default setting there? Are log files downloadable by any user, until one participant of that encounter puts his setting to private or squad or isnt it downloadable by any user until all participants set their privacy setting to public?
    I have another question about the usability of the current arcdps log files:
    If I do a raid encounter, which is being logged by another member of my squad and uploaded to gw2r, how would it compromise your ability (as admins) and the ability of the 9 other squad members to use that log file to feed into your meta statistics and the personal raid statistics of the other 9 members of my squad, if the log file wouldnt include my gw2 account or character name but all of my other combat related data that is currently logged?
    Thanks for clarification.

  • Can you adding some more sorting options to this?

    Sorting by say 90th Percentile instead of 99th or having an option to sort for 75th would make it easier to get a good impression of how classes perform at various skill levels.

  • Belorn.2659Belorn.2659 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2017

    @Wanze.8410, beyond what the privacy settings do on the website, you should be aware that account names are fully visible in-game if you hover over other players in a squad. Anet do not protect account names or consider them sensitive information, which is rather obvious since even here on the very public (and google indexed) forum your account name is fully visible. Even if you opt to not join squads (which excludes raids which is the purpose of raidar), any player can get the account name of any other player they just happen to see in the game by right-clicking the name and adding them to their block/friend list. Even in wvw/pvp where the name is hidden, the account name is still accessible through that method. There is no opt-out or opt-in method to prevent other players in the game to find out your account name, and anet has in every possible situation shown the account name when it has had the possibility to do so.

    What is the use case behind your questions when anet has made it explicitly impossible to keep account names hidden from other members of a raid squad?

  • Wanze.8410Wanze.8410 Member ✭✭✭

    @Belorn.2659 said:
    @Wanze.8410, beyond what the privacy settings do on the website

    I dont use that website, thats why I am asking the admins how exactly the privacy settings work and what the default options are. I thought this was the intended purpose of this thread.

    What is the use case behind your questions when anet has made it explicitly impossible to keep account names hidden from other members of a raid squad?

    The use case behind my questions is a better game experience for myself, I hope you dont have any objections to that.

    I dont question Anets stance on sharing my account name with other members of my squad.
    I just wonder in what capacity it is required to link my account name to my personal combat data, record it and share it with members outside of my squad in order for the other squad members to be able to record, process and visualize their own dps performance.

  • Having listened to the raid meta disciples for so long, I was stunned at the 50th percentile DPS for successful raids. What does the 10th percentile look like?

  • Ertrak.9506Ertrak.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    @Wanze.8410 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    The use case behind my questions is a better game experience for myself, I hope you dont have any objections to that.

    I dont question Anets stance on sharing my account name with other members of my squad.
    I just wonder in what capacity it is required to link my account name to my personal combat data, record it and share it with members outside of my squad in order for the other squad members to be able to record, process and visualize their own dps performance.

    Tl;dr ppl don't want a number attached to their name.

    Ppl don't want others to be on the site, see one bad stat, and be like, "holy kitten blacklisted"

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @Wanze.8410 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    The use case behind my questions is a better game experience for myself, I hope you dont have any objections to that.

    I dont question Anets stance on sharing my account name with other members of my squad.
    I just wonder in what capacity it is required to link my account name to my personal combat data, record it and share it with members outside of my squad in order for the other squad members to be able to record, process and visualize their own dps performance.

    Tl;dr ppl don't want a number attached to their name.

    Ppl don't want others to be on the site, see one bad stat, and be like, "holy kitten blacklisted"

    This is valid security and privacy concern that should be answered by raidar dev asap and if anything investigated by ArenaNet for potential risks.

  • Evolute.6239Evolute.6239 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ertrak.9506 said:

    @Wanze.8410 said:

    @Belorn.2659 said:

    The use case behind my questions is a better game experience for myself, I hope you dont have any objections to that.

    I dont question Anets stance on sharing my account name with other members of my squad.
    I just wonder in what capacity it is required to link my account name to my personal combat data, record it and share it with members outside of my squad in order for the other squad members to be able to record, process and visualize their own dps performance.

    Tl;dr ppl don't want a number attached to their name.

    Ppl don't want others to be on the site, see one bad stat, and be like, "holy kitten blacklisted"

    But.. is this even a real concern? I don't think you can see someones raid history, you can just link a singular log. And who cares about a single log? o_O Lag can happen, you might have fallen asleep. Anyone who blacklists you over a single log is deluded and probably someone you never want to play with ever. Never allowed to test things, ever! meta perfection play 100% of the time! ra ra ra!

    And even then, if you're that worried, someone can make their name private so nobody knows who you are.

  • Wanze.8410Wanze.8410 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2017

    @Evolute.6239 said:

    But.. is this even a real concern?

    I think if its a real concern or not is something that everybody has to determine for themselves and there is no need for us to find consent about that because everybody values privacy differently. If it isnt a concern for you and you want to share your data, I have no problem with that and dont want to stop you doing just that. The reasons you have for making your own choice should not invalidate your choice, if they are of subjective nature.

    So why are the reasons on which I base my choice so relevant to you, if they dont concern or handicap you in any way?

  • Evolute.6239Evolute.6239 Member ✭✭✭

    @Wanze.8410 said:

    @Evolute.6239 said:

    But.. is this even a real concern?

    I think if its a real concern or not is something that everybody has to determine for themselves and there is no need for us to find consent about that because everybody values privacy differently. If it isnt a concern for you and you want to share your data, I have no problem with that and dont want to stop you doing just that. The reasons you have for making your own choice should not invalidate your choice, if they are of subjective nature.

    So why are the reasons on which I base my choice so relevant to you, if they dont concern or handicap you in any way?

    Because your nonexistant concern about something that will probably never happen is not worth changing anything over.

    I feel like this is one of those tumblr arguments I can't win, though. So I'm not gonna bother cluttering up this thread. It feels like "DPS meters are toxic" 2.0.

  • Wanze.8410 the whole thing you're discussing here is a bunch of BS. Just the fact itself that GW2Raidar offers ANY kind of privacy settings is a bonus step, something completely optional that didn't have to be implemented in the first place (and no other parsers I can think of offer that).

    When you join anyone's party/squad, your combat data are shared with them and they're free to read it, display it or store it. That's how DPS meters always worked and were officialy approved by Anet. This data can then be processed into easily readable tables, just like GW2Raidar does. You can then share it with anyone, send them link to it, take a picture of it, whatever...

    Trying to somehow obscure this or untie with accounts/characters would be completely pointless. People have their own memory and ability to share information. So even if you make all parser data private, people can still talk to each other and say "I've been in a raid with this guy and he did XYZ DPS".

    Unless you can think of a way to prevent people from LOOKING at their DPS meter and TALKING to their friends about what it displayed, it makes no sense to question some parser and whether it can do it or not.

  • Toeofdoom.6152Toeofdoom.6152 Member ✭✭
    edited October 26, 2017

    Because there are quite a few people here who haven't encountered the site before, I'll go over the privacy settings quickly.

    • profile pages are entirely private.
    • encounter pages are listed for all participants, but not publicly discoverable. They can be shared by links, just like raid heroes logs.
    • if you wish to hide your account and character names, you can create a gw2raidar account and change your visibility to squad only, or private. This will replace your name in encounter reports with the word "PRIVATE". Note that participants do have the ability to share your character name in other ways (I.e. on other websites) and we have no control over that.
    • accounts can only be created with specifically named keys, to prevent misuse of api keys that have been shared widely in the past

    While more privacy settings are not impossible, we currently consider these more than sufficient. Additionally, if we are to spend our time on such features we would like to know it will resolve people's concerns, rather than just generating even more questions.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Toeofdoom.6152 said:
    Because there are quite a few people here who haven't encountered the site before, I'll go over the privacy settings quickly.

    • profile pages are entirely private.
    • encounter pages are shown to participants. They can be shared by links, just like raid heroes logs.
    • if you wish to hide your account and character names, you can create a gw2raidar account and change your visibility to squad only, or private. This will replace your name in encounter reports with the word "PRIVATE". Note that participants do have the ability to share your character name in other ways (I.e. on other websites) and we have no control over that.
    • accounts can only be created with specifically named keys, to prevent misuse of api keys that have been shared widely in the past

    While more privacy settings are not impossible, we currently consider these more than sufficient. Additionally, if we are to spend our time on such features we would like to know it will resolve people's concerns, rather than just generating even more questions.

    Am I understanding this correctly - if I'm not creating raidar account and setting my account to private and I play with someone who monitors me with his dps meter and posts it on the site (without my knowledge and consent) my data is available there for everyone?

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Evolute.6239 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Toeofdoom.6152 said:
    Because there are quite a few people here who haven't encountered the site before, I'll go over the privacy settings quickly.

    • profile pages are entirely private.
    • encounter pages are shown to participants. They can be shared by links, just like raid heroes logs.
    • if you wish to hide your account and character names, you can create a gw2raidar account and change your visibility to squad only, or private. This will replace your name in encounter reports with the word "PRIVATE". Note that participants do have the ability to share your character name in other ways (I.e. on other websites) and we have no control over that.
    • accounts can only be created with specifically named keys, to prevent misuse of api keys that have been shared widely in the past

    While more privacy settings are not impossible, we currently consider these more than sufficient. Additionally, if we are to spend our time on such features we would like to know it will resolve people's concerns, rather than just generating even more questions.

    Am I understanding this correctly - if I'm not creating raidar account and setting my account to private and I play with someone who monitors me with his dps meter and posts it on the site (without my knowledge and consent) my data is available there for everyone?

    It's only available for the specific boss that was killed and uploaded and only if a person from said squad shares a link to said boss log.

    For the fifteenth billion time, your combat data is not private data. You don't consent to it at all. The fact that they allow you to hide your name if you choose to sign up already covers 99% of concerns anyone would have.

    So basically I have no control over this, anyone can share this data and I am forced to accept it even though I have no interest in using this tool or this site.

    This is ridiculous. This requires immediate change of policy and deep investigation by arenanet. I had no idea how many things are leaking outside of game client that is beyond control just because they allowed arc dps.

  • savacli.8172savacli.8172 Member ✭✭✭

    @Evolute.6239 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Toeofdoom.6152 said:
    Because there are quite a few people here who haven't encountered the site before, I'll go over the privacy settings quickly.

    • profile pages are entirely private.
    • encounter pages are shown to participants. They can be shared by links, just like raid heroes logs.
    • if you wish to hide your account and character names, you can create a gw2raidar account and change your visibility to squad only, or private. This will replace your name in encounter reports with the word "PRIVATE". Note that participants do have the ability to share your character name in other ways (I.e. on other websites) and we have no control over that.
    • accounts can only be created with specifically named keys, to prevent misuse of api keys that have been shared widely in the past

    While more privacy settings are not impossible, we currently consider these more than sufficient. Additionally, if we are to spend our time on such features we would like to know it will resolve people's concerns, rather than just generating even more questions.

    Am I understanding this correctly - if I'm not creating raidar account and setting my account to private and I play with someone who monitors me with his dps meter and posts it on the site (without my knowledge and consent) my data is available there for everyone?

    It's only available for the specific boss that was killed and uploaded and only if a person from said squad shares a link to said boss log.

    For the fifteenth billion time, your combat data is not private data. You don't consent to it at all. The fact that they allow you to hide your name if you choose to sign up already covers 99% of concerns anyone would have.

    [insert church congregation's "Amen"]

    Welcome to terms and conditions.

    It'd be the same as you complaining that Facebook (do people still use that?) sold off one of your photos to be placed in an advertisement and you got non of the money or royalties for it. Yes, you took and posted that photo, but at that point you surrendered your rights to that photo by posting it. Regardless whether you set your profile to private or not Facebook can freely distribute anything that's posted its platform

    Similar thing happens with GW2. Sure, it's your account and your character that's generating the combat data, but the generated data then falls under public use. The boundary there being I can't look at your gear, traits, etc without your API key, but combat data and parsing/viewing there of has been given the green light and that includes typing your account/toon name to it since that's available in the public data.

    As others have mentioned it's just a bonus that sites like GW2Raidar offer a privacy option as that's not at all required of them; GW2Raidar isn't going out and hunting down your account name; it was already included in the data.

    But let's be blunt, if there is anyone that doesn't agree with the availability of the data? Well....just stop playing the game. Same thing was said about mounts in the labyrinth. Though that's a discussion that took place in another thread the plain and simple answer there was along the lines of "this is what Anet has already reviewed and approved, if you don't like it then don't go to the labyrinth or make your own squad". And guess what? Squads were made and people were kicked if they used mounts in a squad that specifically stated they were against that feature.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 26, 2017

    @savacli.8172 said:

    @Evolute.6239 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Toeofdoom.6152 said:
    Because there are quite a few people here who haven't encountered the site before, I'll go over the privacy settings quickly.

    • profile pages are entirely private.
    • encounter pages are shown to participants. They can be shared by links, just like raid heroes logs.
    • if you wish to hide your account and character names, you can create a gw2raidar account and change your visibility to squad only, or private. This will replace your name in encounter reports with the word "PRIVATE". Note that participants do have the ability to share your character name in other ways (I.e. on other websites) and we have no control over that.
    • accounts can only be created with specifically named keys, to prevent misuse of api keys that have been shared widely in the past

    While more privacy settings are not impossible, we currently consider these more than sufficient. Additionally, if we are to spend our time on such features we would like to know it will resolve people's concerns, rather than just generating even more questions.

    Am I understanding this correctly - if I'm not creating raidar account and setting my account to private and I play with someone who monitors me with his dps meter and posts it on the site (without my knowledge and consent) my data is available there for everyone?

    It's only available for the specific boss that was killed and uploaded and only if a person from said squad shares a link to said boss log.

    For the fifteenth billion time, your combat data is not private data. You don't consent to it at all. The fact that they allow you to hide your name if you choose to sign up already covers 99% of concerns anyone would have.

    [insert church congregation's "Amen"]

    Welcome to terms and conditions.

    It'd be the same as you complaining that Facebook (do people still use that?) sold off one of your photos to be placed in an advertisement and you got non of the money or royalties for it. Yes, you took and posted that photo, but at that point you surrendered your rights to that photo by posting it. Regardless whether you set your profile to private or not Facebook can freely distribute anything that's posted its platform

    Similar thing happens with GW2. Sure, it's your account and your character that's generating the combat data, but the generated data then falls under public use. The boundary there being I can't look at your gear, traits, etc without your API key, but combat data and parsing/viewing there of has been given the green light and that includes typing your account/toon name to it since that's available in the public data.

    As others have mentioned it's just a bonus that sites like GW2Raidar offer a privacy option as that's not at all required of them; GW2Raidar isn't going out and hunting down your account name; it was already included in the data.

    But let's be blunt, if there is anyone that doesn't agree with the availability of the data? Well....just stop playing the game. Same thing was said about mounts in the labyrinth. Though that's a discussion that took place in another thread the plain and simple answer there was along the lines of "this is what Anet has already reviewed and approved, if you don't like it then don't go to the labyrinth or make your own squad". And guess what? Squads were made and people were kicked if they used mounts in a squad that specifically stated they were against that feature.

    Actually it's behavioral data, it's not about my character it's about me using the service. It is very much my own. The data itself is not a problem. Problem is data being directly associated to my account, to me. It's personal information at this point. If it was about posting general dps of the party without associating it with my account without my consent everything would be okay as you cannot pick me up. But you can. Same goes for raidar which is even bigger violation of privacy.

    It was brought up in old thread, not by me originally, and Chris never answered to this. He did exactly the same as you, rephrased the policy without answering actual concern. Currently policy is either under faulty interpretation or its wording is bad and it's to be changed.

    There is nothing wrong in using dps meters and sharing these numbers but it should be done conscientiously and after I consent. Not automatically assumed I agree to send my data to 3rd parties without any control over this.

    About your facebook example, they can gather the data but they can't share it in direct correlation to my account to third party apps without my consent. Every app asks me for consent before running it. Nothing like this happens in GW2 and arcdps, not mentioning raidar.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    One request at this point. Hide account names by default until a player creates an account and makes it public.

    This should be a thing without question. I can only explain this mistake by lack of experience in this field which I hope you quickly fix.

  • @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    One request at this point. Hide account names by default until a player creates an account and makes it public.

    I'll add it to the list for consideration in future releases but at this stage, we are comfortable with the privacy options available so it is not a high priority for us right now.

  • Wanze.8410Wanze.8410 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 27, 2017

    @savacli.8172 said:

    @Evolute.6239 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Toeofdoom.6152 said:
    Because there are quite a few people here who haven't encountered the site before, I'll go over the privacy settings quickly.

    • profile pages are entirely private.
    • encounter pages are shown to participants. They can be shared by links, just like raid heroes logs.
    • if you wish to hide your account and character names, you can create a gw2raidar account and change your visibility to squad only, or private. This will replace your name in encounter reports with the word "PRIVATE". Note that participants do have the ability to share your character name in other ways (I.e. on other websites) and we have no control over that.
    • accounts can only be created with specifically named keys, to prevent misuse of api keys that have been shared widely in the past

    While more privacy settings are not impossible, we currently consider these more than sufficient. Additionally, if we are to spend our time on such features we would like to know it will resolve people's concerns, rather than just generating even more questions.

    Am I understanding this correctly - if I'm not creating raidar account and setting my account to private and I play with someone who monitors me with his dps meter and posts it on the site (without my knowledge and consent) my data is available there for everyone?

    It's only available for the specific boss that was killed and uploaded and only if a person from said squad shares a link to said boss log.

    For the fifteenth billion time, your combat data is not private data. You don't consent to it at all. The fact that they allow you to hide your name if you choose to sign up already covers 99% of concerns anyone would have.

    [insert church congregation's "Amen"]

    Welcome to terms and conditions.

    Similar thing happens with GW2. Sure, it's your account and your character that's generating the combat data, but the generated data then falls under public use. The boundary there being I can't look at your gear, traits, etc without your API key, but combat data and parsing/viewing there of has been given the green light and that includes typing your account/toon name to it since that's available in the public data.

    And thats where we disagree. The exception that was granted by Chris was only in the scope of dps meters.

    In my opinion, it is not necessary to log your squads members account name in order to record, process and visualize your own dps numbers and the dps numbers of your squad, as long as you have all combat related data from all 10 players.

    That would define account names of other squad members as unrelated data in relation to the scope of dps meters and therefore wouldnt be covered by the exception to the privacy policy granted by chris.

    Edit: So technically and legally I see it like this:

    You are free to use dps meters to log dps numbers from your squad but any record can only obtain your own account name linked to any combat data, the combat data of your other 9 squad members can be included in the dps log but it cant be linked to their account names by default, unless they agree to their account name being recorded by default.

    Once the log is done, I dont think there would be anything illegal in you adding the account names of your squad members manually by yourself into the dps log but once you share that log again with someone outside of that social group, it would be a violation again because the account names of your squad members are irrelevant data in regards to the scope of dps meters.

  • @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Evolute.6239 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Toeofdoom.6152 said:
    Because there are quite a few people here who haven't encountered the site before, I'll go over the privacy settings quickly.

    • profile pages are entirely private.
    • encounter pages are shown to participants. They can be shared by links, just like raid heroes logs.
    • if you wish to hide your account and character names, you can create a gw2raidar account and change your visibility to squad only, or private. This will replace your name in encounter reports with the word "PRIVATE". Note that participants do have the ability to share your character name in other ways (I.e. on other websites) and we have no control over that.
    • accounts can only be created with specifically named keys, to prevent misuse of api keys that have been shared widely in the past

    While more privacy settings are not impossible, we currently consider these more than sufficient. Additionally, if we are to spend our time on such features we would like to know it will resolve people's concerns, rather than just generating even more questions.

    Am I understanding this correctly - if I'm not creating raidar account and setting my account to private and I play with someone who monitors me with his dps meter and posts it on the site (without my knowledge and consent) my data is available there for everyone?

    It's only available for the specific boss that was killed and uploaded and only if a person from said squad shares a link to said boss log.

    For the fifteenth billion time, your combat data is not private data. You don't consent to it at all. The fact that they allow you to hide your name if you choose to sign up already covers 99% of concerns anyone would have.

    So basically I have no control over this, anyone can share this data and I am forced to accept it even though I have no interest in using this tool or this site.

    This is ridiculous. This requires immediate change of policy and deep investigation by arenanet. I had no idea how many things are leaking outside of game client that is beyond control just because they allowed arc dps.

    Chris clearly has quite litterally said that joining a squad is not private information and can be freely shared twitter.com/Shazbawt/status/905910888573673473

  • @Wanze.8410 said:

    @savacli.8172 said:

    @Evolute.6239 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Toeofdoom.6152 said:
    Because there are quite a few people here who haven't encountered the site before, I'll go over the privacy settings quickly.

    • profile pages are entirely private.
    • encounter pages are shown to participants. They can be shared by links, just like raid heroes logs.
    • if you wish to hide your account and character names, you can create a gw2raidar account and change your visibility to squad only, or private. This will replace your name in encounter reports with the word "PRIVATE". Note that participants do have the ability to share your character name in other ways (I.e. on other websites) and we have no control over that.
    • accounts can only be created with specifically named keys, to prevent misuse of api keys that have been shared widely in the past

    While more privacy settings are not impossible, we currently consider these more than sufficient. Additionally, if we are to spend our time on such features we would like to know it will resolve people's concerns, rather than just generating even more questions.

    Am I understanding this correctly - if I'm not creating raidar account and setting my account to private and I play with someone who monitors me with his dps meter and posts it on the site (without my knowledge and consent) my data is available there for everyone?

    It's only available for the specific boss that was killed and uploaded and only if a person from said squad shares a link to said boss log.

    For the fifteenth billion time, your combat data is not private data. You don't consent to it at all. The fact that they allow you to hide your name if you choose to sign up already covers 99% of concerns anyone would have.

    [insert church congregation's "Amen"]

    Welcome to terms and conditions.

    Similar thing happens with GW2. Sure, it's your account and your character that's generating the combat data, but the generated data then falls under public use. The boundary there being I can't look at your gear, traits, etc without your API key, but combat data and parsing/viewing there of has been given the green light and that includes typing your account/toon name to it since that's available in the public data.

    And thats where we disagree. The exception that was granted by Chris was only in the scope of dps meters.

    In my opinion, it is not necessary to log your squads members account name in order to record, process and visualize your own dps numbers and the dps numbers of your squad, as long as you have all combat related data from all 10 players.

    That would define account names of other squad members as unrelated data in relation to the scope of dps meters and therefore wouldnt be covered by the exception to the privacy policy granted by chris.

    Edit: So technically and legally I see it like this:

    You are free to use dps meters to log dps numbers from your squad but any record can only obtain your own account name linked to any combat data, the combat data of your other 9 squad members can be included in the dps log but it cant be linked to their account names by default, unless they agree to their account name being recorded by default.

    Once the log is done, I dont think there would be anything illegal in you adding the account names of your squad members manually by yourself into the dps log but once you share that log again with someone outside of that social group, it would be a violation again because the account names of your squad members are irrelevant data in regards to the scope of dps meters.

    wanze Chris clearly has basically said he green light this entire concept long before it was even made https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6xia1f/introducing_gw2raidar_a_different_way_of_looking/dmh78le/

    If he felt there was something wrong with this then he would have prevented delta from putting names and account info into combat logs. the information in arcs combat logs are freely sharable. Any problems with that should be taken up with arena net.

  • Belorn.2659Belorn.2659 Member ✭✭✭

    The thread regarding DPS meter privacy policy was locked by anet for a good reason and continuing the discussion here won't do anything good. Please create a new thread if you want to reopen the discussion, until they lock that one again. Read Anet privacy policy if you want their view: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/arenanet-privacy-policy/

  • New era for the latest patch has some data at a high level for current raid benchmarks if you can't wait for qT. Naturally the more logs we get the more info we can show so get raiding and uploading!

    Also there will be a ui update happening in the next day or two so keep am eye out for it as well as some tweaks that should hopefully fix the fractal success detection atm. =)

  • Latest version was just released, should make navigating and reading the site a bit easier. Let us know what you think or if you experience any issues!

  • Thanks again, @merforga.4731 for the tool and the constant updates.

    "Face the facts. Then act on them. It's ...the only doctrine I have to offer you, & it's harder than you'd think, because I swear humans seem hardwired to do anything but. Face the facts. Don't pray, don't wish, ...FACE THE FACTS. THEN act." — Quellcrist Falconer

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