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Any new info / speculations about the missing firstborns?

Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

It's been a while since this topic was being discussed, but replaying LS2 reminded me that we still don't know all the sylvari firstborns. At launch, we knew 9 out of 12, later Wynne's fate got revealed, but two are still completely unknown.

In LS2, Caithe's memories are especially interesting as they give us a bit of a timeline. Apparently, the two missing firstborns disappeared even before the secondborn awakened. Riannoc was already dead by the time of Caithe's first memory, so it's not certain if they disappeared before that happened or after. Also, this happened before the Nightmare Court was founded. At this time, the death of a single sylvari was a huge deal for them all. So I imagine if at a time like this two more firstborn would have died / had something traumatic happen to them, it's likely we would have learnt about this, since it should have left a strong impression on sylvari society, especially the other firstborns.
In contrast, when Wynne did die, the sylvari had already experienced trauma and deaths as a society numerous times. This was some time after the asura captured larger groups.

So, because they disappeared at such an interesting time in sylvari history, I personally suspect they might be still alive and on some kind of mission. Maybe exploration or diplomatics concerning other continents, so they basically had no chance to visit home in the meantime? Like, I don't know, maybe Cantha or even that continent in the west that seems to have trading routes connecting it to Central Tyria? However, sending them that far away when their siblings even barely left the grove... I'm not convinced.

... Or maybe they died in some really stupid accident that everyone refuses to ever mention.

Has anyone heard anything about them in the past ~8 years? I mean, they must have some kind of story, otherwise the devs could just have not defined the number of firstborns in the first place.

Comments

  • Stephen.6312Stephen.6312 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fenella.2634 said:
    It's been a while since this topic was being discussed, but replaying LS2 reminded me that we still don't know all the sylvari firstborns. At launch, we knew 9 out of 12, later Wynne's fate got revealed, but two are still completely unknown.

    In LS2, Caithe's memories are especially interesting as they give us a bit of a timeline. Apparently, the two missing firstborns disappeared even before the secondborn awakened. Riannoc was already dead by the time of Caithe's first memory, so it's not certain if they disappeared before that happened or after. Also, this happened before the Nightmare Court was founded. At this time, the death of a single sylvari was a huge deal for them all. So I imagine if at a time like this two more firstborn would have died / had something traumatic happen to them, it's likely we would have learnt about this, since it should have left a strong impression on sylvari society, especially the other firstborns.
    In contrast, when Wynne did die, the sylvari had already experienced trauma and deaths as a society numerous times. This was some time after the asura captured larger groups.

    So, because they disappeared at such an interesting time in sylvari history, I personally suspect they might be still alive and on some kind of mission. Maybe exploration or diplomatics concerning other continents, so they basically had no chance to visit home in the meantime? Like, I don't know, maybe Cantha or even that continent in the west that seems to have trading routes connecting it to Central Tyria? However, sending them that far away when their siblings even barely left the grove... I'm not convinced.

    ... Or maybe they died in some really stupid accident that everyone refuses to ever mention.

    Has anyone heard anything about them in the past ~8 years? I mean, they must have some kind of story, otherwise the devs could just have not defined the number of firstborns in the first place.

    They're probably among the characters that Anet's storytelling team cast aside. The optimist in me, though, would suggest that the missing firstborn are either in Cantha or exploring the Mists.

    Want to delve into some theories about the lore and story of GW2? Check these posts out: The Search For Answers P1 and The Search For Answers P2.

  • anninke.7469anninke.7469 Member ✭✭✭

    I've been wondering about them too. Maybe they host the "forgotten characters party" for all the others somewhere secret...

    Do not fear difficulty. Hard ground makes sore feet.
    All things...grow. And the blossom bothers the weed.
    Act with wisdom and axe.

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stephen.6312 said:
    The optimist in me, though, would suggest that the missing firstborn are either in Cantha or exploring the Mists.

    Wouldn't that be really something, though? :) Consider how extremely early they left.
    It was at a time the firstborns were still acting like they were in a fairytale, Riannoc playing the Chosen Knight with a magic sword, everyone else barely leaving home. Even the future diplomats and Trahearne, who would later be absent a lot, were still very unfamiliar with the world outside the Grove.

    So what on Tyria would have been so extremely urgent and important to send the two that far away that soon? If it was related to Mordremoth directly, there likely would have been a link to the Malyck story. Which was not there. Malyck was a surprise for everyone, including the Pale Tree.
    Maybe something Mist-related? Or something about the cave with the seeds?

    Yes, I know, most likely it really was related to HoT and just one of the scrapped stories. But maybe not?

  • anninke.7469anninke.7469 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fenella.2634 said:

    @Stephen.6312 said:
    The optimist in me, though, would suggest that the missing firstborn are either in Cantha or exploring the Mists.

    Wouldn't that be really something, though? :) Consider how extremely early they left.
    It was at a time the firstborns were still acting like they were in a fairytale, Riannoc playing the Chosen Knight with a magic sword, everyone else barely leaving home. Even the future diplomats and Trahearne, who would later be absent a lot, were still very unfamiliar with the world outside the Grove.

    So what on Tyria would have been so extremely urgent and important to send the two that far away that soon? If it was related to Mordremoth directly, there likely would have been a link to the Malyck story. Which was not there. Malyck was a surprise for everyone, including the Pale Tree.
    Maybe something Mist-related? Or something about the cave with the seeds?

    Yes, I know, most likely it really was related to HoT and just one of the scrapped stories. But maybe not?

    Maybe they even came across Malyck's tree and somehow were behind his appearance in Brisban. And now, Laranthir is (on his way) there too on a mission of crucial importance for the Pale Tree and all sylvari and we'll eventually join him and learn more.
    /wild dreaming

    Do not fear difficulty. Hard ground makes sore feet.
    All things...grow. And the blossom bothers the weed.
    Act with wisdom and axe.

  • TeeracK.3601TeeracK.3601 Member ✭✭
    edited January 22, 2021

    didnt even realize this was a thing.

    I wonder if Duchess Chrysanthea was a first born since her story was cut from dragonstand.

  • LSD.4673LSD.4673 Member ✭✭

    Sylvari's the only racial story that's interested me. It's a real shame how these plot threads have been cast aside. It honestly seems like sylvari are done with now.
    Not just the two missing firstborns, but what about the rest of the firstborns themselves?
    So much wasted potential. The original plan for HoT must have been great.

  • The Greyhawk.9107The Greyhawk.9107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LSD.4673 said:
    Sylvari's the only racial story that's interested me. It's a real shame how these plot threads have been cast aside. It honestly seems like sylvari are done with now.
    Not just the two missing firstborns, but what about the rest of the firstborns themselves?
    So much wasted potential. The original plan for HoT must have been great.

    Obviously not if it was so quickly cast aside. Maybe it had good ideas, but failed to create a good narrative with them.

    Hate Is Fuel.

  • TeeracK.3601TeeracK.3601 Member ✭✭
    edited January 27, 2021

    @The Greyhawk.9107 said:

    @LSD.4673 said:
    Sylvari's the only racial story that's interested me. It's a real shame how these plot threads have been cast aside. It honestly seems like sylvari are done with now.
    Not just the two missing firstborns, but what about the rest of the firstborns themselves?
    So much wasted potential. The original plan for HoT must have been great.

    Obviously not if it was so quickly cast aside. Maybe it had good ideas, but failed to create a good narrative with them.

    I've honestly always thought the early story of the game got ruined by big changes. I think people hated underwater stuff so much they cut whole zones and likely had to change the story so much. I felt like with the pirate them, season 1 starting with the karka, looking at the water map left of LA that was cut, and at least 2 other mate rmaps that got cut. It just seemed to me in its original concept we were going to start with the DSD after Zaitan, but they ended up shuffling dragons around because of backlash about water combat. Even the end of season 1 cinematic with the vines destroying the pact ships seemed like it could have originally been conceptualized to be tentacles coming out of the sea instead of vines out of a forest, but i guess will never know the original plan/vision for the game.

  • LSD.4673LSD.4673 Member ✭✭

    @The Greyhawk.9107 said:

    @LSD.4673 said:
    Sylvari's the only racial story that's interested me. It's a real shame how these plot threads have been cast aside. It honestly seems like sylvari are done with now.
    Not just the two missing firstborns, but what about the rest of the firstborns themselves?
    So much wasted potential. The original plan for HoT must have been great.

    Obviously not if it was so quickly cast aside. Maybe it had good ideas, but failed to create a good narrative with them.

    Being cast aside doesn't mean they weren't good, it means they cut corners to meet a deadline. HoT seems to have a vast many half-implemented features that point to this being the case. Even the storyline itself is a meandering mess. Reeks of being culled to push the product out.

  • Brycar.2651Brycar.2651 Member ✭✭✭

    I like that there are unaccounted firstborn. This way for my role play my Silvari can be a Firstborn

  • TeeracK.3601TeeracK.3601 Member ✭✭
    edited February 23, 2021

    Considering all the wardens maybe one of them went to cantha to do something in echovale.

    There was all the staff, axe, and sword masters from HoT and they were meant to be a bigger deal then they were we kept fighting through the expansion. We did a bit but we didnt get much story about them. Only the sword master do they suggest was a sylvari from the pact when you do the event in the top left of VB. Wouldnt shock me if the two missing firstborn could have been the two unnamed ones.