Increase reveal time and make it unremovable

This would work wonders for both PvP and WvW.

Obviously you will compensate by reverting some of the past nerfs while at it.

yes/10chars

Sounds good to me.

Why? Seriously, this change does literally nothing other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would marginally care is trapper DH.

@UNOwen.7132 said:Why? Seriously, this change does literally nothing other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would marginally care is trapper DH.

And once Trapper runes are nerfed or gone from all the complaints, it won't affect DH at all, so DE gets screwed even more.

I'm all for this.

Maybe reduce the ini cost on rifle 3 as compensation. Let their dps button do more dps than their cc.

Keep the reveal cleanse I say. It's an elite skill so it should do elite skill things.

Other than that its a pretty good suggestion. Don't know if revealed should be increased in general, but revealed applied by other skills like "On my Mark" and "Sic' em" could definitely.

Instead remove the stacking stealth.There is no point to increase the reveal time if the reveal can be removed at any moment or the target can disengage at any moment and wait it out to stack on another 30 seconds stealth.

If something like that happen it cannot be made without some heavy change for classes who depend of this mechanic as survability

It have to give block , invulnerability in order to compense the fact that they were not design to play without it

Try those classes with and without stealth you will see what i'm talking about

@UNOwen.7132 said:Why? Seriously, this change does literally nothing other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would marginally care is trapper DH.

Stealth is annoying, thats why. DE being non-meta has been very good for the game. DD and core thief have been carried by stealth for years and thief mains always cry about nerfs that attempt to balance this. Stealth 1 shots are dumb. Stealth resets are dumb. Constant stealthing in combat is dumb. Stealth is far too abundant and its bad for the game.

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:Why? Seriously, this change does literally

nothing

other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would

marginally

care is trapper DH.

We shouldnt nerf things just because theyre annoying. A lot of people find conditions very annoying. Or Blocks, or invuln. This also doesnt actually hit regular thieves because you dont stealth in-combat. DD and Core Thief were never "carried by stealth", the only thing that was "carrying" them is Shortbow 5. They dropped D/P for S/P and S/D before, remember? Stealth 1 shots dont exist outside of maybe Mesmer anymore. Stealth resets are just inferior to shortbow 5 resets because the enemy can punish you for it. In-combat stealth is basically telling your enemy "kill me, Im giving you 1.25 seconds of free damage that I wont be able to defend myself during, so this is an easy guaranteed kill". Stealth is not even nearly as relevant as people think it is, let alone bad for the game.

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:This would work wonders for both PvP and WvW.

Obviously you will compensate by reverting some of the past nerfs while at it.

For thief that has absolutely no survavibility besides stealth, you just want to farm them or what?

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Why? Seriously, this change does literally

nothing

other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would

marginally

care is trapper DH.

DE is really weak and so easy to farm them, just learn to play against it, when u pressure them, they are -1.

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:This would work wonders for both PvP and WvW.

Yes.

Obviously you will compensate by reverting some of the past nerfs while at it.

Nah, I think they're fine.There's nothing you can revert that won't be re-nerfed the moment any thief gets it.

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Why? Seriously, this change does literally

nothing

other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would

marginally

care is trapper DH.

In this case, annoying means bad design. Yes sb 5 is strong, but stealth often enables its effectiveness. Stealth gives thieves the means to decap or enter a +1 without the enemy knowing, sb 5 just allows them to travel faster and have z axis mobility. s/d has had a role in pvp for ages, and s/p was mainly a meme when people realized that noobs dont know how to deal with pistol whip. The 2 main thief builds for the last year have been d/p and condi, both usually running SA. Combat stealth is very strong because it breaks target, and you can reposition while your opponent can only guess your location. Stealth is far more relevant than you think, and yes, too much of it is bad for the game.

Purely opinionated post, but stealthless or low-stealth thief builds are generally more fun than stealth builds imo. There's more risk of dying, but tend to make up for it with either more damage or more mobility/evades (e.g. running RfI instead of black powder).

If stealth gets a tone down, thief will need buffs to compensate. You could give them 15k base hp. Or what I personally like the idea of, buffing the damage of DA and CS.

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Why? Seriously, this change does literally

nothing

other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would

marginally

care is trapper DH.

Annoying is 100% relevant to the person in question, and isn't indicative of design at all. In other words, your opinion. You don't like it and therefore want it nerfed.

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Why? Seriously, this change does literally

nothing

other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would

marginally

care is trapper DH.

This is great break down and literally the reason for 90% of nerf posts, funny thing is if a few people spam threads on it anet will actually listen and sink their mmo even further in the hole lol, its what they do.

@CutesySylveon.8290 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Why? Seriously, this change does literally

nothing

other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would

marginally

care is trapper DH.

Of course me finding it annoying is my opinion. Stealth is a notoriously controversial feature in mmos and all competitive games. Some people like it being overpowered, other people dont want it at all. In gw2 conquest, a game about rotations, tracking player positions, active skill-based & telegraphed combat, too much stealth is objectively bad competitive design.

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Why? Seriously, this change does literally

nothing

other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would

marginally

care is trapper DH.

In that case youre gonna have an even tougher time explaining how stealth is bad design. Despite stronger versions of it existing in just about every MMO. Stealth never enables SB5s effectiveness. SB5 is at its best when used on its own instead of wasting initiative on stealthing. Youre rarely going to stealth up to decap, because just getting there faster vs SB5 is better in 95+% of the time. For +1ing, if youre on D/P, yeah you stealth, but again, you can still do it without that, since D/P is just one build. S/P wasnt a meme, it was an effective build until it got nerfed and things around it changed. And yeah since the disastrous february megapatch killed all other builds, those are the only 2 played, but keep in mind, condi thief was a meme before that.

Combat stealth is very weak. Here is the problem with "it breaks target". It uh, doesnt exactly. Any channeled attack launched on a target who enters stealth will hit 100% of it. Any targetted launched on a target who then enters stealth will hit 100%. And quite often, attacks launched after stealth is entered still track. And thats ignoring that, in order to enter stealth, you had to give your enemy 1-1.25 seconds of free hits on you, which completely negates any damage you may have avoided in the first place. And as for repositioning, it doesnt work that way. A competent enemy can track you through stealth and negate your repositioning. Its relevant out of combat, but the proposed changes does jack all to affect that. Its completely irrelevant in combat, as the very few times you enter it, your goal is to exit it ASAP.

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Why? Seriously, this change does literally

nothing

other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would

marginally

care is trapper DH.

Most other mmos dont have combat stealth. Most other mmos have slower combat/movement and gamemodes other than conquest. Most other mmos have even worse pvp balance than gw2. Channeling attacks are in the vast minority of skills. Claiming you give your enemy a free second to attack you when you stealth is nonsense. A competent enemy can predict movement while stealthed, and a competent stealthed player can outplay them. Stop making things up just for the sake of arguing.

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Why? Seriously, this change does literally

nothing

other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would

marginally

care is trapper DH.

Stealth is weak because you can't use it to counter channeled attacks and targeted leaps and enemies can track you through it anyway. It's practically a disadvantage for thieves!

Seems reasonable...

Thief is weak rn. Half a second of stealth from dh isn’t worth nerfing. It would be a hypocritical thief nerf- like nerfing just short bow 5 instead of shadow arts which is the real reason why thief isn’t meta. Nerf something other than a rune lots of other classes can use than talk about nerfs

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Why? Seriously, this change does literally

nothing

other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would

marginally

care is trapper DH.

What mmo's dont have combat stealth? Wow has vanish, eso cloak, BDO ninjas stealth, Archeage and even swtor has a in combat stealth lol.

@Psycoprophet.8107 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Why? Seriously, this change does literally

nothing

other than nerf the already severely underperforming DE. Regular thief doesnt care, you're not gonna be going into stealth after a stealth attack very often. Ranger, Engineer and Mesmer don't care, the first 2 don't have enough stealth to repeat it, and if Mesmer is revealed, youre already dead. Im pretty sure the only build that would

marginally

care is trapper DH.

This is hyperbole. What are the cooldowns on those skills? Can every stealth skill in those games work in combat? Does stealth in those games have penalties such as movement speed reduction or not allowing the use of other skills without revealing yourself?