Gift of exploration

Time for a rant.

Fed up with doing map clears on any class simply to a gift of exploration..2 actually. Where is a lot of other gifts can be bought with some form of currency or wvw reward track.

Let's add it to gem store for say, 3k gems for a single gift of exploration.

i wish i could make map completation again and again on my main character..... :D

They absolutely should not add gifts of exploration to the store. The outcry would be pretty big, the optics are bad and it would devalue the work of all the people who have 15 or 16 world completes. It's a bad bad idea.

Map completion used to require WvW mapsTHAT was the definition of pain

Would be nice if we can spend spirit shards, some obsidian and idk, one more item like you craft something ascended, bring it to a vendor, then he resets your POIs, vistas and hearts, or maybe just POIs and vistas, and after the first world completion, you can do the second one a bit easier (like not doing all the hearts). Or maybe subsequent gifts of exploration would be a repeatable achievement where you have to find one trophy on each of the maps, maybe do events and you get drops from boss monsters of each event, both world ones and smaller ones (kinda like the sentient thing collection for Lake doric). That would revitalize Core Tyria maps and a lot of people would be doing events there. First one should still require full map completion.

@"Vayne.8563" said:They absolutely should not add gifts of exploration to the store. The outcry would be pretty big, the optics are bad and it would devalue the work of all the people who have 15 or 16 world completes. It's a bad bad idea.

While i agree they shouldn't sell Gifts of Exploration in the store, i don't think they should keep the status quo just for the sake of the people who arelady done it "the old way". They chose to do it, no one was forcing them. By that logic they shouldn't have removed WvW requirements for exploration because of the people that have done WvW map completion. Plus, i'm sure people who did map completion 15 times would appreciate the change that lets them do more of it without the huge grind that they went through 15 times already. Preventing change for the sake of a few people who did X thing "back when it was Y" is never a good idea for a healthy MMO.

Hard no.

You can already buy Gen 1 legendaries with money if you really want by converting gems to gold, albeit over twice the 3k you mention. Throwing the GoE up in the store spits on the face of everyone who made a legendary over the past 8+ years and makes Gen 2 legendaries that much closer to being something you buy with a credit card.

There is no stat bonus to legendaries so there's zero reason to use them unless you want either the QoL aspects or the skin, and if you want those you can work on it just like everybody else. You're buying the GoE with time (much like the GoB unless you have 80 potions to get it instantly) and that should not be changed, especially as every legendary means that someone spent several hours to over 25 hours doing map completion and you want to bypass that with money. Put in your time like everybody else.

@Zephire.8049 said:There is no stat bonus to legendaries so there's zero reason to use them unless you want either the QoL aspects or the skin, and if you want those you can work on it just like everybody else. You're buying the GoE with time (much like the GoB unless you have 80 potions to get it instantly) and that should not be changed, especially as every legendary means that someone spent several hours to over 25 hours doing map completion and you want to bypass that with money. Put in your time like everybody else.

If you have 80 potions you're still spending time to get the Gift, it just means you spent the time in advance getting the potions, and banked it until you knew whart you needed it for.

I also agree with the overall point here. The Gift of Exploration is only used to make gen 1 legendaries, which are almost entirely cosmetic and designed to be long-term goals so if someone doesn't want to meet the requirements all they're missing out on is a weapon skin. On top of that there is already a way to buy them. I don't see any need to add ways to bypass the requirements.

I'm also generally against encouraging what I call 'pay to not play' where you buy a game and then can keep on paying to skip actually playing it and just get the rewards. I don't think it's good for players or game population and activity to have too much of that. It's not quite pay to win, because you don't win anything, but it has a similar effect of making it feel pointless to actually play the game, but then what's the point? If you're not playing a game to have fun playing it why are you doing it?

@Veprovina.4876 said:Would be nice if we can spend spirit shards, some obsidian and idk, one more item like you craft something ascended, bring it to a vendor, then he resets your POIs, vistas and hearts, or maybe just POIs and vistas, and after the first world completion, you can do the second one a bit easier (like not doing all the hearts). Or maybe subsequent gifts of exploration would be a repeatable achievement where you have to find one trophy on each of the maps, maybe do events and you get drops from boss monsters of each event, both world ones and smaller ones (kinda like the sentient thing collection for Lake doric). That would revitalize Core Tyria maps and a lot of people would be doing events there. First one should still require full map completion.

@"Vayne.8563" said:They absolutely should not add gifts of exploration to the store. The outcry would be pretty big, the optics are bad and it would devalue the work of all the people who have 15 or 16 world completes. It's a bad bad idea.

Why would more players seeking Gifts of Exploration 'revitalize' Core Tyria maps with the suggested method? Seems more players seeking Gifts of Exploration would spend less time in said maps.

@moony.5780 said:i wish i could make map completation again and again on my main character..... :D

A reset would be nice, if you really like your main you would do an map completion easily on it..

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:Would be nice if we can spend spirit shards, some obsidian and idk, one more item like you craft something ascended, bring it to a vendor, then he resets your POIs, vistas and hearts, or maybe just POIs and vistas, and after the first world completion, you can do the second one a bit easier (like not doing all the hearts). Or maybe subsequent gifts of exploration would be a repeatable achievement where you have to find one trophy on each of the maps, maybe do events and you get drops from boss monsters of each event, both world ones and smaller ones (kinda like the sentient thing collection for Lake doric). That would revitalize Core Tyria maps and a lot of people would be doing events there. First one should still require full map completion.

@"Vayne.8563" said:They absolutely should not add gifts of exploration to the store. The outcry would be pretty big, the optics are bad and it would devalue the work of all the people who have 15 or 16 world completes. It's a bad bad idea.

@"Vayne.8563" said:They absolutely should not add gifts of exploration to the store. The outcry would be pretty big, the optics are bad and it would devalue the work of all the people who have 15 or 16 world completes. It's a bad bad idea.

They removed the WvW requirement shortly before they changed the third map, because it would have screwed up the system. It would mean some people had completed a map that no longer existed, ie the red alpine borderlands. What if you were in the middle of completing it, completed that zone and then they switched zones and the zone you completed wasn't even in the game anymore. Sure they could have done something about it, but it was easier just to exclude WvW.

A lot of people think that taking the exploration of WvW away from world complete was caving to casual PvE'ers but I don't actually believe that's the reason it was done.

Wasn't it also because the original plan was that all the borderlands would change to the Desert one for some weeks, and then switch to Alpine other weeks? And possibly there would be more maps introduced in future. That would have made map completion on them almost impossible because the map you're trying to complete would keep on changing.

That plan was dropped later on because WvW players didn't like having new maps and wanted the Alpine one to always be available, but I'm sure there was at least a few weeks where we had that system.

But either way the important thing is they didn't remove WvW from map completion because some players didn't like doing it, but because other changes to the game were making it impractical, so I agree that's not a precedent for removing map completion from the requirements to get a legendary just because you don't feel like doing it.

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Time for a rant.

Fed up with doing map clears on any class simply to a gift of exploration..2 actually. Where is a lot of other gifts can be bought with some form of currency or wvw reward track.

Let's add it to gem store for say, 3k gems for a single gift of exploration.

If you're willing to drop 3k gems for gift of exploration, which is ~700 gold after convertion, then you're looking at having a total of about 1,9k gold including the cost of the rest of the materials you need to craft the t1 legendary. At this point, just get those 3k gems, convert to gold, sell the mats you'd use to craft and buy the weapon from tp.

@Vayne.8563 said:

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:Would be nice if we can spend spirit shards, some obsidian and idk, one more item like you craft something ascended, bring it to a vendor, then he resets your POIs, vistas and hearts, or maybe just POIs and vistas, and after the first world completion, you can do the second one a bit easier (like not doing all the hearts). Or maybe subsequent gifts of exploration would be a repeatable achievement where you have to find one trophy on each of the maps, maybe do events and you get drops from boss monsters of each event, both world ones and smaller ones (kinda like the sentient thing collection for Lake doric). That would revitalize Core Tyria maps and a lot of people would be doing events there. First one should still require full map completion.

@Vayne.8563 said:They absolutely should not add gifts of exploration to the store. The outcry would be pretty big, the optics are bad and it would devalue the work of all the people who have 15 or 16 world completes. It's a bad bad idea.

@Vayne.8563 said:They absolutely should not add gifts of exploration to the store. The outcry would be pretty big, the optics are bad and it would devalue the work of all the people who have 15 or 16 world completes. It's a bad bad idea.

Ah, yeah, that would have messed things up. Plus, there were already tons of issues with exploring WvW like getting "locked" POIs and vistas and waypoints that were on the enemy spawn that week, and it would take weeks to get all of it.

Now no longer quoting:

But still, not changing something for the sake of status quo isn't really the best idea. However, personally i have no problem with the current system of getting Gift of Exploration, it's fitting to the lore (you DID explore the whole world - a legendary feat), and it doesn't really take that much longer compared to other forms of "grinding". There's TacO to help you on every map if you want and compared to grinding T6 mats or the like, it's really not that horrible. Sure, for someone who did it 15 times, yes it may be boring but then, you got 30 gifts of exploration out of it, that's 30 legendary weapons, you're fine, you're done, stop doing it. It's not meant to be done that much and that frequently, so i think it doesn't need changing. People who want to grind them, well, deal with it...

And no, GoE selling outside of the game is not an argument, no game should be designed around 3rd party stuff. GoE is designed around being account bound and used for crafting a legendary. If you're not using it for that, and are grinding and selling them, then deal with the world exploration as it is. Anet shouldn't accomodate you for that.

The system is fine and doesn't need changing.

Also, this thread is turning into that "Sell Mastery points in the gem store" thread. No "pay to not play" option should exist in the gem store. The ones that are already in there should i think be removed as well, but whatever. We don't need more of those.

EDIT: Ooops, sorry didn't see your post...

@Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:Would be nice if we can spend spirit shards, some obsidian and idk, one more item like you craft something ascended, bring it to a vendor, then he resets your POIs, vistas and hearts, or maybe just POIs and vistas, and after the first world completion, you can do the second one a bit easier (like not doing all the hearts). Or maybe subsequent gifts of exploration would be a repeatable achievement where you have to find one trophy on each of the maps, maybe do events and you get drops from boss monsters of each event, both world ones and smaller ones (kinda like the sentient thing collection for Lake doric). That would revitalize Core Tyria maps and a lot of people would be doing events there. First one should still require full map completion.

@Vayne.8563 said:They absolutely should not add gifts of exploration to the store. The outcry would be pretty big, the optics are bad and it would devalue the work of all the people who have 15 or 16 world completes. It's a bad bad idea.

It was just a thought. If you get gifts of exploration from an achievement, and you need to do events in core tyria maps, that would mean a bit more people doing them. And i don't mean world boss events, those are fine, but events like, escort people to location stuff in newbie areas maybe. Especially if you needed to do them a bunch of times, or even find X item on Y map or something like that. But honestly, the current system is fine as well, and it's not like gifts of exploration are some hot commodity that everyone is constantly doing so the few people that would maybe spend more time on core tyria maps is probably not a good incentive to change anything.

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Time for a rant.

Fed up with doing map clears on any class simply to a gift of exploration..2 actually. Where is a lot of other gifts can be bought with some form of currency or wvw reward track.

Let's add it to gem store for say, 3k gems for a single gift of exploration.

Common sense dictates we should be able to buy them with Karma once we unlocked them once. It is enough grind just the materials.

There is a black market for the gift of mastery, usually it is around 500g. So players have defacto made the solution you are asking for. Also you can also just buy all legendary weapons that require gift of mastery outright, again it is usually 600 to 700g mark up from you getting it yourself.Current record for map completion is around 11 hours, which if you a ton of gift of battles because you wvw and ton of spirit shards and karma from normal gameplay, you make up to 90g a hour from the map completion.The solutions exist if you know where to look, and anet does not need to ruin a market of people who sell gifts of mastery or legendary weapons just because you are lazy.

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Time for a rant.

Fed up with doing map clears on any class simply to a gift of exploration..2 actually. Where is a lot of other gifts can be bought with some form of currency or wvw reward track.

Let's add it to gem store for say, 3k gems for a single gift of exploration.

Tbh I didn't even bother doing the math to convert gold to gem, just put in a random number lol

@Shadowmoon.7986 said:There is a black market for the gift of mastery, usually it is around 500g. So players have defacto made the solution you are asking for. Also you can also just buy all legendary weapons that require gift of mastery outright, again it is usually 600 to 700g mark up from you getting it yourself.

This. The demand of topic creator is already met. Both in terms of paying other players for their gifts and materials a well as directly purchasing T1 legendary weapons off the trading post.

At current rates of gem to gold conversion (100 gems -> around 25g), this amounts to around 2k gems @ 500 gold. Even at 600 or 700 gold, this would still be below the offered 3k gems TC is willing to pay (2,400 gems and 2,800 gems respectively). Conclusion: there already is a cheaper alternative to acquire Gifts of Exploration than buying them strait from the gem store as suggested by TC with the added benefit that in case of purchasing T1 legendary items off the TP that gold is removed from the in-game economy.

Close thread.

@Vayne.8563 said:They absolutely should not add gifts of exploration to the store. The outcry would be pretty big, the optics are bad and it would devalue the work of all the people who have 15 or 16 world completes. It's a bad bad idea.

but that is a bit silly.

You can buy the whole legendary already. On the other hand this also address OP's issue. It is already possible to pay someone else to do it.

@Vayne.8563 said:They removed the WvW requirement shortly before they changed the third map, because it would have screwed up the system. It would mean some people had completed a map that no longer existed, ie the red alpine borderlands. What if you were in the middle of completing it, completed that zone and then they switched zones and the zone you completed wasn't even in the game anymore. Sure they could have done something about it, but it was easier just to exclude WvW.

A lot of people think that taking the exploration of WvW away from world complete was caving to casual PvE'ers but I don't actually believe that's the reason it was done.

That is pretty similar to the reason ANet gave. If they had kept WvW for world completion it would mean every borderland maps they create would have to have exactly the same number of completion objectives. Doing so would address the problems you raised but that would have hobbled their design choices. I guess at that time ANet had a plan of making many borderland maps ...

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Time for a rant.

Fed up with doing map clears on any class simply to a gift of exploration..2 actually. Where is a lot of other gifts can be bought with some form of currency or wvw reward track.

Let's add it to gem store for say, 3k gems for a single gift of exploration.

...you're welcome? :D

Keep gameplay in the game. As much as possible.

I wonder how many Gifts of Exploration are rotting in players banks? I don't suggest being able to sell single GoE but perhaps a way to convert them into a currency that can be traded/sold and used to buy GoE might be interesting.

IE: Players has some GoE, trades them for Shard of Exploration and puts those on the TP and can generate some gold from this. Another player, buys Shards of Exploration to combine/trade into one Gift of Exploration.

In the above example I fully expect GoE value to drop from the black market value of 500g, and in turn Legendary would also take a drop in price. This could be mitigated by adjusting the number of Shards required to make one Gift. I would suggest starting around 30 Shards = 1 Gift to reduce the likelihood of GoE being overly devalued. This means 15 players complete World Exploration and sell all collected Shards to fund 1 Legendary.

Perhaps that number looks better at 50-1 or even 100-1. Either way, there could be a way to take those rotting GoE, have players able to turn them into cash and other players then able to buy the GoE without doing the actual work.

Earning a Gift of Exploration by not exploring. Yep. Makes total sense.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:Earning a Gift of Exploration by not exploring. Yep. Makes total sense.

I want to have, but I don't want to do :(

@Mungo Zen.9364 said:I wonder how many Gifts of Exploration are rotting in players banks?I have ten, but they're account bound. I don't expect I'll ever use them as I won't be chasing legendaries.

Personally, I'd like to see them change Gift of Exploration requirement to any 25 map completions (from any chapter, LWS, IBS, etc.). Not only is core Tyria map completion mind-numbingly boring for veterans, this would also give incentive to map complete outside of core Tyria. Another option is to let the Gift of Mastery, Gift of Maguuma Mastery, and Gift of Desert Mastery be interchangeable.