Your thoughts on previous Nerfs

Are there any nerfs that you guys thought were uncalled for, but after playing with the nerf for awhile you realized how busted the skill was?

I have a few but the biggest one for me personally is Holographic shockwave. The range on that skill used to be insane lol.

The last and realty only major update of 2020 was too blanket nerf with lots of place holders that effectively destroyed builds. CC dmg nerf for skills that where dmg aimed for the wepon and passive skill that where significantly weaker the others put on 300 sec cd. That and over all 10 target nerf to support skills that where on much longer cd and had less effect over all.

Pew Pew Ranger...i can still murder mounted enemy with one wolf pack + rapid fire :)

Applied Strength and Applied Fortitude. Those were immensely imbalanced way more than PoK.

For specific skills... SotL on necro I guess? Though it was a bugfix and not really a nerf per se.I guess it's alright since they reworked how it life-leaches to be more consistent, but I don't really think it was super broken when it had the bugged healing value.

Maybe RFI at 30 seconds, but I'd rather have seen it 40 instead of 50. 50 is too high and was raised for when SwEq was OP, and in its current state, why a lot of people no longer run it.

It's hard to also really say because the state of the game has changed so much over the years. We had instances where longbow ranger dealt no damage but you could hit for 40k using Maul and a pre-rework SotH build, and a time when spirits were OP and and necro dagger AA was up there in DPS game-wide. It's hard to say "Nah that was OP" when such drastic shifts have happened over the years.

Otherwise most of what I've personally played has been aggressively nerfed unjustifiably because I usually deviate a bit from the meta, or I've acknowledged it being OP as it was prior to being nerfed, and the changes were either not really related but did tone the power down enough.

The bigger issue is more that ANet usually nerfs symptoms instead of problems. So usually the nerfs are heavy-handed bringing something unreasonably strong to be fairish, but to the wrong things which kills diversity, but everyone with any semblance of understanding balance also knows the original can't be restored to its former state by just undoing the change and not instead reworking the issue.

One evade.

ALL the endless Warclaw nerfs. Now that i tested the post-nerf Kitty, I think those nerfs were justified. Without those nerfs, the Warclaw would be tooo OP and definitely game breaking. Whichever server has the most Warclaws = sure win regardless of the players' skills or zerg size. Well done NERF team.

ALL the 300 second traitsthe removal of fall damage reductionthe obliteration of CC damage

They should just revert "balance" to January 2020.

Reducing Daredevil to two dodges - that nerf was justified, in the end.

@"Fueki.4753" said:ALL the 300 second traitsthe removal of fall damage reductionthe obliteration of CC damage

They should just revert "balance" to January 2020.

this ^ 100%

I was surprised it took so long to make Incensed Response match the PvP version. Still can hit 25x might easily thanks to Vindication though, lol.

I think people are not reading OPs question, or not understanding.

The thread is about nerfs that you were mad about but turned out to be justified.Not nerfs that you wish were never implemented.

@Veprovina.4876 said:I think people are not reading OPs question, or not understanding.

The thread is about nerfs that you were mad about but turned out to be justified.Not nerfs that you wish were never implemented.

Most ppl think these nerfs should of never happens even if the op wants to be confusing in the way they are miss leading the tittle. Read what ppl are saying it is the opposite of what the op is saying.

The nerfs are soo bad that ppl are seeking out any topic on it and commenting. By no means dose it have to agree with the op.

I was outraged at the balance patch / DPS nerf early in 2020. But it's driven me to be a better player in the end. I was relying on min/max style builds and now have to actually play mindfully.

(I am still pissed that pre-balance, I shredded every thief even on Durability Rune -- and now my core build is basically hard countered by any patient thief).

@Jski.6180 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:I think people are not reading OPs question, or not understanding.

The thread is about nerfs that you were mad about but

turned out to be justified

.Not nerfs that you wish were never implemented.

Yes, but by your own admission then, every single comment in this thread is off topic. :sweat_smile:I know they think they should have never happened and are posting out of outrage. But that's not what OP asked, and you even siad it yourself, it's the opposite of what OP asked. Btw, OP isn't saying anythign, OP asked a question. OP asked if there is some nerf that, after the dust has settled, people thought it's a good nerf.

Mirage's dodges.

The only groups that are upset about these nerfs are the 15-20 man "fight guilds" who only knew how to blast stealth and slam their keyboards on the desk. Sorry you can't brain dead 1 push blobs anymore shrugs. Damage was WAY too high and you can tell which groups are suffering from the reverted Power Creep HoT+PoF brought.

@Veprovina.4876 said:I think people are not reading OPs question, or not understanding.

The thread is about nerfs that you were mad about but turned out to be justified.Not nerfs that you wish were never implemented.

Oh, yea.

In that case, I pick the nerf to literacy; that's been pretty OP and as seen is very lacking here. B)

superspeed removed from blasts on scrapper, but later thay added it to healing potion + f1 skill and went event better then before, i wored that i will lose superspeed and scrapper don't have much dashes, but change went oki culd say it can be little decrested by 1-2s on f1 skill, as we also have superspeed on gyros

My general opinion is that :

1. Anet will initially nerf everything but core problem.
2. Anet will eventually nerf core problem
3. Everything else is not reverted

Thus I would like certain nerfs reverted since core problem was nerfed.

Example :Deathstrike Chill removal should allow 2nd hit to be faster again.

i overall just disagree with the nerfs since 2019 in general, it gone far too far. cc got just plain nerfs, cast time was never taken in consideration. therefore fast and slow cast ccs on all types of weapons lost dmg, equally without consideration if the weapon was even used. (for example, guardian hammer... think i saw not one since three years, still its dmg got dropped as well. (while nerfing superquick waterweapon dps was forgotten...yeees)

@"Demon Puppet.6873" someone was stealth pushed a bit too often lel. keeping eyes open still could avoid this. good/full blast routines still give 20ish groups a pretty long stealth option. we still killed 60 people with 20 in 2020. surely, not top tier "blob", but well.

All of them were justified - some need to be retuned - the 300s traits, the damage of hard CC skills.

There's still a LOT of outliers that weren't touched, or were barely scratched. Guard symbols, DH traps, Chrono CC+Strip interaction, Berzerker burst, Purity of Purpose.. just to name a few.

@kamikharzeeh.8016 said:i overall just disagree with the nerfs since 2019 in general, it gone far too far. cc got just plain nerfs, cast time was never taken in consideration. therefore fast and slow cast ccs on all types of weapons lost dmg, equally without consideration if the weapon was even used. (for example, guardian hammer... think i saw not one since three years, still its dmg got dropped as well. (while nerfing superquick waterweapon dps was forgotten...yeees)

@"Demon Puppet.6873" someone was stealth pushed a bit too often lel. keeping eyes open still could avoid this. good/full blast routines still give 20ish groups a pretty long stealth option. we still killed 60 people with 20 in 2020. surely, not top tier "blob", but well.

I don't really get wiped by guilds who do that tactic lol. My whole guilds set up was pretty much to counter that. But its funny to fight guilds now who ONLY know that 1 strat. Good guilds will still be good and the bad ones who were being carried by power creep will fail. All the nerfs were justified

@knite.1542 said:Are there any nerfs that you guys thought were uncalled for, but after playing with the nerf for awhile you realized how busted the skill was?

I have a few but the biggest one for me personally is Holographic shockwave. The range on that skill used to be insane lol.

Chrono, all the way. I know we got IP back, but at the end of the day, we lost our distort. Feels totally uncalled for. Chrono may have received a buff in PVE DPS because of some of the shatter changes, but overall it felt like part of the class's identity was stolen.

Also Mirage in PVP. I know it felt insane before, but I feel like now most of the time mirages are a joke in PVP. I find a good one every now and then, but it's so rare I wonder if the player would do even better with a completely different class.

@Firebeard.1746 said:

Chrono, all the way. I know we got IP back, but at the end of the day, we lost our distort. Feels totally uncalled for. Chrono may have received a buff in PVE DPS because of some of the shatter changes, but overall it felt like part of the class's identity was stolen.

If anything new Shatters made Chrono more unique, giving Chrono an identity with special Shatters

Issue is CS is straight up weaker than Distortion as a defensive Shatter in every way, except maybe in PvE where it's great for rotations.

But I guess that's what tradeoffs are.

Also Mirage in PVP. I know it felt insane before, but I feel like now most of the time mirages are a joke in PVP. I find a good one every now and then, but it's so rare I wonder if the player would do even better with a completely different class.

Mirage getting 1 dodge removed was totally uncalled for.

Problem was IH, IH should have been given the big slap, not having 1 dodge removed.

@Demon Puppet.6873 thing is, if done right they can stealth from barely out of sight, so u cannot possibly counter that other than necro marks or a target painter trap (but that works only if u place either a ton of em or smell the way they will come, which is again a bad execution of a stealthpush)

like if u don't lose at least 5-10 people, the stealthpush was just slow or someone attacked too early and the rest slept. like the only option is to let some ppl die and bomb the inc group asap + stab up and dodges. but they have the first strike.

__the stealth tries i see often is setting stealth up in plain sight, and also there only babystealth, leading to every not totally slow eyed group beeing able to predict where and when the push will come from. the good ones still push from spots where u cannot spot them.