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raid tank

so other than chrono tank, does other class good at tanking, especially for w5/w6

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  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭✭

    For W5, SH and Dhuum are easily tanked by a FB.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭✭

    I'll also add druid tank, it is pretty good where it works.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2021

    Power Revenants are excellent tanks too. They give good support while being very beefy.
    Doesnt matter if its a Alacrity-Renegade thats tanking or an (Power-)Boon-Herald.
    Even though herald isnt in a great spot balance-wise atm & not really liked by a big part of the community, its an ,in my opinion, underused tank that can fulfill its job with ease.

    seldomly there are heal scourge tanks too. Not bad to have in specific scenarios ^^

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2021

    In short:
    Tank in the meta usually is the one who lose least amount of stuff while tanking and still does his other job during the raid.
    In pugs this is usually chronomancer, but other solid options are for example alac, druid, hfb and boon thief.

    Tanking it self is not hard and any class can do it, but you want your tank to do something else than just tank, like giving major boons etc.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭✭

    Unpopular opinion: chrono tank is outdated and bad.
    What is the most weird that people still play the diviner/minstriel chronos as tanks in pugs which is no longer a thing for a long time. I play minstriel chrono only on 3 bosses. On other encounters I'd go dps or quickness tank chrono and when I don't take the signet or a shield I feel like all the deffensive potential of chrono is missing and any other class could do the same and maybe with better efficiency, as chrono doesn't even have a heal, because he uses it for dps. Another thing is When bosses are big it becomes somewhat difficult to get in range of the group for shatter quickness. I'd rather have a healer tank (best is druid then firebrand if struggling) or alacrev if not, any dps would work too, if dps chrono tank is working. Of course still you can play the alac well chrono on desmina for example and it is pretty good... But then again not the only option.

  • Wolfb.7025Wolfb.7025 Member ✭✭✭

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Unpopular opinion: chrono tank is outdated and bad.
    What is the most weird that people still play the diviner/minstriel chronos as tanks in pugs which is no longer a thing for a long time. I play minstriel chrono only on 3 bosses. On other encounters I'd go dps or quickness tank chrono and when I don't take the signet or a shield I feel like all the deffensive potential of chrono is missing and any other class could do the same and maybe with better efficiency, as chrono doesn't even have a heal, because he uses it for dps. Another thing is When bosses are big it becomes somewhat difficult to get in range of the group for shatter quickness. I'd rather have a healer tank (best is druid then firebrand if struggling) or alacrev if not, any dps would work too, if dps chrono tank is working. Of course still you can play the alac well chrono on desmina for example and it is pretty good... But then again not the only option.

    Well, remember Chrono is the easiest to tank stuff as they have a 3 second block (you can even use it twice if you block something on the first cast) and 2 sources of distortion.
    Of course you can tank with other classes, but the point of still bringing Chrono tank is that it synergies perfectly well with a Druid healer in the subgroup. You can shuffle your squad composition to bring other supports but that's something really rare and uneffective for LFGs unless more than half the squad knows what they're up to.

    I like the healbrigade combo but unfortunately if you bring two healbrands to a squad the overall dps would be lower since you don't have druid spirits. I'm talking about effectiveness, but of course you can clear raids without chrono tank, in fact, you could basically beat every boss using only core class dps if you tried to lol.

    Years just pass like trains
    I wave but they don't sloow dooown~ don't slow doown~♪

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2021

    @Wolfb.7025 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    Unpopular opinion: chrono tank is outdated and bad.
    What is the most weird that people still play the diviner/minstriel chronos as tanks in pugs which is no longer a thing for a long time. I play minstriel chrono only on 3 bosses. On other encounters I'd go dps or quickness tank chrono and when I don't take the signet or a shield I feel like all the deffensive potential of chrono is missing and any other class could do the same and maybe with better efficiency, as chrono doesn't even have a heal, because he uses it for dps. Another thing is When bosses are big it becomes somewhat difficult to get in range of the group for shatter quickness. I'd rather have a healer tank (best is druid then firebrand if struggling) or alacrev if not, any dps would work too, if dps chrono tank is working. Of course still you can play the alac well chrono on desmina for example and it is pretty good... But then again not the only option.

    Well, remember Chrono is the easiest to tank stuff as they have a 3 second block (you can even use it twice if you block something on the first cast) and 2 sources of distortion.

    Thing is you don't have 2 blocks if you don't take the shield and the inspiration traitline+signet. And most of the cases you shouldn't run that build as it destroys your dps. Apart from some very hard hitting bosses you wouldn't need those blocks or at worst you'd run inspi with signet and mimic and again with no shield. Most of the cases in pug runs it is not the case for some reason though. Chrono tanks are just leeching with no dps in most of the encounters. Don't get me wrong, you still need some defence when you play chrono tank and can run shield minstriels etc. But not everywhere like I see ppl do.

    @Wolfb.7025 said:

    Of course you can tank with other classes, but the point of still bringing Chrono tank is that it synergies perfectly well with a Druid healer in the subgroup. You can shuffle your squad composition to bring other supports but that's something really rare and uneffective for LFGs unless more than half the squad knows what they're up to.

    I like the healbrigade combo but unfortunately if you bring two healbrands to a squad the overall dps would be lower since you don't have druid spirits. I'm talking about effectiveness, but of course you can clear raids without chrono tank, in fact, you could basically beat every boss using only core class dps if you tried to lol.

    What synergises is the quickness, which is no longer should be given by using wells, but seize the moment trait.. Or maybe some qfb or cqfb. You don't need 2 hfbs. What I am saying is running a minstriel/diviner chrono as a tank is not meta at all and is highly ineffective, because that chrono build only works well if you are a source of quickness+ALAC and got it in 2 subgroups. But in most runs you got a renegade for an alac, and running a no dps build on chrono means he is useless, and you don't need 2 of those. You just need 2 quickness sources in 2 groups.
    An exception is desmina. She hits hard and you need 2 tanks, so you get 2 chronos with alac+quickness and you don't take renegade as an alac. That's why it works so well there, but doesn't work everywhere else. Times of chrono being alac source is long gone. You give quickness with STM now for which you just need 10% bd to maintain quickness permanently and do respectable dps.

  • Klowde.9876Klowde.9876 Member
    edited February 2, 2021

    @Armen.1483 said:
    What synergises is the quickness, which is no longer should be given by using wells, but seize the moment trait.. Or maybe some qfb or cqfb. You don't need 2 hfbs. What I am saying is running a minstriel/diviner chrono as a tank is not meta at all and is highly ineffective, because that chrono build only works well if you are a source of quickness+ALAC and got it in 2 subgroups. But in most runs you got a renegade for an alac, and running a no dps build on chrono means he is useless, and you don't need 2 of those. You just need 2 quickness sources in 2 groups.
    An exception is desmina. She hits hard and you need 2 tanks, so you get 2 chronos with alac+quickness and you don't take renegade as an alac. That's why it works so well there, but doesn't work everywhere else. Times of chrono being alac source is long gone. You give quickness with STM now for which you just need 10% bd to maintain quickness permanently and do respectable dps.

    I think you are probably correct in organized groups with people who are trained and good in their classes; however, I find boon chronos are actually effective in certain strategies and scenarios.

    For example, If you notice boons are dropping frequently, an Inspi-SOI chrono is really nice. You don't need boon duration for Inspi/SoI chrono since SoI is not affected by Boon Duration, and you can just take that in your standard STM build at a dps loss, but if you're tanking with a shield, then you want at least some boon duration over normal STM boon duration, since you have less access to clones, and therefore less quickness generation via STM.

    Boons dropping can frequently happen in PUGS, in bosses where people are splitting up a lot and don't regroup quickly enough (e.g. VG, Xera under 50% teleports), or in bosses that are frequently a little messy with people scrambling everywhere or worrying about mechanics instead of applying boons (e.g. Deimos, Dhuum). Additionally, just like your example of Soulless Horror, Largos split strat is another example where chronos are covering alac + quick, unless their playing perfectly, a little more boon duration is a nice thing to have. That's already like half of the toughness tanking encounters.

    Another scenario is if you're responsible for 10-man quickness. You want a fairly high level of boon duration to make sure the quickness doesn't drop off anyone, in conjunction with inspi+SoI and high clone generation. If you have low clone generation, such as if you're not taking greatsword, you want even more boon duration to make up for less frequent shatters.

    Point is, ideally yes, we don't have tank chronos anymore. However, in that same ideal world, we have druids/alacrens tanking, we have chrono/DH stacks so we don't need a dedicated quickness, we don't even use 1 hfb because 1 healer is enough. We don't even need to reapply boons frequently because encounters don't last that long.

    We just don't live under that ideal world, and boon chronos are good at making up for that.

  • Armen.1483Armen.1483 Member ✭✭✭

    @Klowde.9876 said:

    @Armen.1483 said:
    What synergises is the quickness, which is no longer should be given by using wells, but seize the moment trait.. Or maybe some qfb or cqfb. You don't need 2 hfbs. What I am saying is running a minstriel/diviner chrono as a tank is not meta at all and is highly ineffective, because that chrono build only works well if you are a source of quickness+ALAC and got it in 2 subgroups. But in most runs you got a renegade for an alac, and running a no dps build on chrono means he is useless, and you don't need 2 of those. You just need 2 quickness sources in 2 groups.
    An exception is desmina. She hits hard and you need 2 tanks, so you get 2 chronos with alac+quickness and you don't take renegade as an alac. That's why it works so well there, but doesn't work everywhere else. Times of chrono being alac source is long gone. You give quickness with STM now for which you just need 10% bd to maintain quickness permanently and do respectable dps.

    I think you are probably correct in organized groups with people who are trained and good in their classes; however, I find boon chronos are actually effective in certain strategies and scenarios.

    For example, If you notice boons are dropping frequently, an Inspi-SOI chrono is really nice. You don't need boon duration for Inspi/SoI chrono since SoI is not affected by Boon Duration, and you can just take that in your standard STM build at a dps loss, but if you're tanking with a shield, then you want at least some boon duration over normal STM boon duration, since you have less access to clones, and therefore less quickness generation via STM.

    Boons dropping can frequently happen in PUGS, in bosses where people are splitting up a lot and don't regroup quickly enough (e.g. VG, Xera under 50% teleports), or in bosses that are frequently a little messy with people scrambling everywhere or worrying about mechanics instead of applying boons (e.g. Deimos, Dhuum). Additionally, just like your example of Soulless Horror, Largos split strat is another example where chronos are covering alac + quick, unless their playing perfectly, a little more boon duration is a nice thing to have. That's already like half of the toughness tanking encounters.

    Another scenario is if you're responsible for 10-man quickness. You want a fairly high level of boon duration to make sure the quickness doesn't drop off anyone, in conjunction with inspi+SoI and high clone generation. If you have low clone generation, such as if you're not taking greatsword, you want even more boon duration to make up for less frequent shatters.

    Point is, ideally yes, we don't have tank chronos anymore. However, in that same ideal world, we have druids/alacrens tanking, we have chrono/DH stacks so we don't need a dedicated quickness, we don't even use 1 hfb because 1 healer is enough. We don't even need to reapply boons frequently because encounters don't last that long.

    We just don't live under that ideal world, and boon chronos are good at making up for that.

    I agree with you, nearly at all your points. My solution to the "pug" problem is however different. If I see that boons are really bad the group should have other problems and with just signet chrono problems won't be solved, I admit that in some situations I would probably do the same as you. However when I want to tank something that I am not confident for some reason (for example I MUST take the shield), or maybe my healer is bad, or boss is big and shattering near group is a problem etc... I still won't play chrono, but rather a heal firebrand for example insntead. If I can't bring damage I can bring heals to the group at the cost of that, easier quickness application along with some protection and might which will also work better than just signet chrono. You cover boons same as chrono (if not better depending on teamcomp), you bring heal and you tank easily with aegis spamming and all juicy firebrand stuff.
    And btw a lil tip for those who still want to play minstriel shield chrono: take scepter isntead of sword (if you don't need boonrips and invuln). You wouldn't do damage anyway, at least you can make your life easier with clone generation. You still lose bloored frenzy, but the weaker scepter 2 block can make up for it sometimes, on most bosses difference is innoticable.

  • Aridon.8362Aridon.8362 Member ✭✭✭

    Is this a trick question? Are we just going to pretend guardians don't exist?