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Do people actually like the new fractals?

TeeracK.3601TeeracK.3601 Member ✭✭

I think fractals have been getting worse by a large degree the past few. I used to do them all the time but since the awakened one they added in PoF its like what makes a "good" fractal to the devs is making it take forever and having a ton of messy overlapping attacks you cant avoid to make it feel like its more exciting when actually it just makes it feel low skill since you dont do anything but eat the damage and just need the right builds. I quit doing fractals a few months ago when they added the mountain one. its fun at first but then when you get to the final boss its like the devs didnt censor themselves at all. it takes forever and it still to this day since its release bugs all the time in the wind fight. im not sure if i think its more awful then the awakened one(probably honestly), but its for sure a lot buggier and one of the biggest waste of times in the game in my opinion. Fractals were meant to be fun mini dungeons you can chain. I dont want to get bored in the middle of a fight because its to long and need to do it over and over cause it keeps bugging.

So do you think its just that fractals have been getting worse and worse or maybe its just the fact strikes exist where the community that does them seems to be shrinking? I say that mostly based on how 1 out of the 30+ people i used to know who liked fractals still bothers with them.

Comments

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2021

    Sunqua Peak isn't all that bad on normal mode although I would have rather had a green rectangle or circle mechanic instead of the wonky water tether ; even a timed "break the chains" similar to Deimos or something would have been better than the arbitrary stacking tidal burden. CM is rough for average groups without CC consumables due to the CC requirements which has led to a stranglehold of guard + rev because it seems to have been made with a special action in mind. The pushes on normal mode ignore stability though.

    Deepstone isn't that bad unless it's stacked with a bunch of instabilities that work against you (such as we bleed fire with social awkwardness and fragility), overall it's fair and you can adjust around it. People die often to the tiles opening up, which is unpleasant sometimes but it happens. It doesn't punish that much if you don't CC, it just makes a bunch of barrier on the boss.

    Siren's Reef isn't that bad unless people don't bother to try to cleave adds whatsoever and it's a we bleed fire + sugar rush day or something akin to that. Green circle mechanic is similar to raids , DRMs, and strikes. The pushes off the boat ignore stability though.

    If you go even further back then you're looking at Twilight Oasis (I think this is what you mean by "awakened one"), Shattered Observatory , and Nightmare.

  • Fuchslein.8639Fuchslein.8639 Member ✭✭✭

    Fractals are getting worse.
    Not in the sense that the fractals are bad, but that for me it has simply taken the sense out of fractals. I was just talking to a friend the other day about how much we would have preferred that anet has makes the new fractals as raids. Along with all these reworkings you can't do fractals+recs as casual within 30-40min anymore....
    Since my active time 2 years ago, where I ran daily Fracs CM + Recs the groups also shrunk so much and so many non CM-Groups skipping all these new Fraks.
    But friend said people wanted harder fractals so .... wonder which people that were looks to the forum where probably again heaps of answers will come how great and easy peasy everything is.

  • LucianTheAngelic.7054LucianTheAngelic.7054 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2021

    All of the new fractals are great. The only thing that was bad was abandoning CMs on Twilight Oasis, Deepstone, and Siren’s Reef and then abandoning fractals completely for over a year. It would be nice to have a rotational tier of CMs (3 a day) to do just like regular T4 dailies (daily CM players already do 5 to 6 fracs a day anyway) but we need more CMs to make that work well. This could have been fairly easily achieved if they just continued to add them with the newer fractals as they released

  • I haven't played the newest 100 yet. But out of all the other ones added, the only one I didn't like was Siren's Reef. Too many unexplained mechanics, too much random stuff to avoid.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't know which ones are new or old. (Only for Sunqua Peak I know this.)

    For Sunqua I liked the end boss. Other than that the path towards him feels boring. A bit similar with Twilight Oasis. Siren's Reef feels boring and lengthy overall. Also the boss is not too interesting. (And I play only up to tier 2 so far. Still lots of people that get killed there. Sometimes it feels like the hardest boss - more annoying than Sunqua - even though the mechanics aren't that hard.)

    My favorite one probably is the Thaumanova one. Has lots of different stuff in the phase before the end boss: Killing a minor boss, rescuing researchers. And the thing with the laser room where you need to coordinate with others. (Unless you are a pro and can do it solo like in the videos from Deroir.) End boss is nice as well. And you can do it pretty fast if you know how to do it.

    Deepstone feels a bit similar regarding the boss (removing floor tiles) ... but more annoying and the stuff before that end boss feels lengthy and dull.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i like it. The only part where it doesnt really shine are the long dialogues on normal mode.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2021

    They're very hit and miss and have been since Thaumonova was added. I've got used to the dwarven ruins one and Sunqua isn't awful. I loathe Observatory though and whilst the Chaos one is perfectly playable, it's not very interesting as a setting. Twilight Oasis has a fine boss, just too long a lead in. Sirens Reef I never played and what I've seen from vids and write ups, I don't want to either

    Can't comment on CM though. i'm not good enough a player to attempt that in a group

    Overall it's due to a different design team. The original ethos was to release a big chunk of short, bite sized instances. Once they changed it from being a forced random 3 + a boss (which was for the better) it marked a change in direction and when new fractals did start to appear, they focused less on being short, bite sized instances and changed to a more story driven, heavy mechanics focus of longer lengths which often end up too busy

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Im one of the few who like sunqua peak because everything is avoidable and can be super fast with a decent group. Sirens reef has the annoying treasure mechanic with a forever lasting debuff. Would be so much better if mobility skills or portals would be allowed.
    Deepstone is ok until the endboss. Spending more time running than fighting is just annoying. Also wasted opportunity. Old dwarven ruins and we fight a boring human.

    @Fuchslein.8639 said:
    Along with all these reworkings you can't do fractals+recs as casual within 30-40min anymore....

    Of course you can. As long as nobody runs pepega builds like MM necro, scourge or druid. You dont have to be a pro to use a fractal build.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 3, 2021

    The reason they have random "mini-bosses" before the end-boss is to teach the mechanics at least for Sunqua Peak.

    If there was a Siren's Reef CM it would probably skip the bag throwing maze (if the part with retrieving treasure was removed) and the pirate skeleton with the AoE fields on the floor definitely (not sure what those are supposed to teach really). Deepstone's section with the spiders doesn't apply to the end boss either : I don't think it's all that conducive to a CM as on T4 unless instabilities are particularly bad people are more likely to die from floor tiles opening than the boss itself.

    If I would make a suggestion for a new fractal with minimal dev work in terms of programming new mechanics I would say:

    • the boss should not reward confusion overtly promoting condi mirage or mesmer stacking (see a few raid bosses);
    • movement should be medium and not over the top so that torment is not worthless (so that condi scourges , condi renegades, and the like are usable but not the best option);
    • CC bar should not be as large as a raid boss (3000 or less for 5 man is okay if the breakbar is up for over 30 seconds, 2000ish is more in line with a raid boss) ;
    • there should be adds of some sort that aren't trash (i.e. to promote cleave as opposed to top single target DPS) as this is the hallmark of what sets fractals apart from raids where you beat on a single boss which has mechanics
    • there should be a reason to split up the group whether it is a "bomb" mechanic or a red circle overlap mechanic otherwise it will be a DPS golem to an extent;
    • the attack interval of the boss fight should be often enough that one firebrand spamming mantra off cooldown cannot aegis everything;
    • stability should mitigate any hard CC from the fight but not any major damage;
    • defensive boons such as stability and retaliation should be applied akin to a PVP or WvW fight such that it helps people that play multiple modes understand the game more (we see this on the new CM version of DRMs) and allow for a moderate defiance bar to be more effective;
    • periodic projectile reflects would discourage people from outright ranging it (maybe have it switch from near melee to ranged if people are ranging it if the boss isn't given gap closers such as leaps or shadowstep);
    • offensive boons such as quickness, might, and alacrity should be applied to the boss so that boon corrupt is actually worthwhile as an alternative to straight healing;
    • instead of focusing on offensive builds only, it should hard CC people in AoE to reward some stunbreaks and stability ;
    • so that high toughness minstrel and trailblazer builds cannot ignore all damage, some portion of the boss' damage should be condition damage (see Mai Trin's Horrik)
      ---> this also indirectly benefits heal tempest , any scourge, and heal scrapper

    Goals I would put in place:

    • Semi-reward cleave rather than single target damage
    • Allow for both power and condi to be effective
    • Discourage pull + cleave tactics
    • Discourage unloading all burst in an exposed debuff , interrupting should be to disrupt a potentially deadly attack not a reason to go up the wall with DPS
    • Discourage all confusion comps
    • Not punish offmeta healers that favor condi clears over outright heals
    • All consumables disabled but have reasonable CC demands
    • Encourage boon corrupts at opportune times rather than just boon rips on autos or banish enchantment (renegade)

    Rough example:

    • Theme: Dark energy / corruption , assassin type of enemy
    • Possible fractal scales based on current duplicates: T1 - 17, 19, 21 , 22 | T2 - 38 , 43, 44, 45 | T3 - 64, 66, 68, 65/71 | T4 - 89,91, 93, 97
    • Health 10 Million , toughness ~1400 , hitbox 240-360 (not extremely small), effective auto attack interval 3-5s (mediocre for confusion), breakbar 2200 with no exposed debuff
    • ~75-90% boss does maximum damage with both melee and ranged attacks that do hybrid damage (power+condi) unless quickness and alacrity are stripped (reapplies in 12s interval)
    • ~50-75% boss does CC on top of damage every 12s, boss CC fixate targets anyone using a channeled attack longer than 2s cast time and when someone isn't channeling it targets the farthest target
      --> knockdown CC will have a telegraph of 1s long with a 240-360 radius red circle (similar to a well or meteor shower) or rectangle (similar to Coalescence of ruin or Inspiring Reinforcement) , this discourages warriors and soulbeasts from just whirling away without any regard for what is going on
      --> channel time 0.75s pulls targets that are ranging it above 600 range (model it off mesmer focus pull) , Vortex AoE ring that cannot be jumped that encompasses all area above 600 range

    • 75% calls for high ranged reinforcements (adds) with slow hard hitting AoEs and about 50K health --- see Tarron in Mai Trin with sniper attacks ; model it after a power soulbeast , power dragonhunter , power deadeye ; the spawn mechanic could be modeled off of Chaos Anomaly in Chaos fractal

    • 66% generates barrier whenever hitting someone with a CC attack (similar to a scrapper) --- this facilitates core warriors running tactics' warrior's cunning instead of empower allies
    • 50% calls for medium condi-based ranged medium ranged reinforcements (adds) that apply quickness+alacrity to all enemies with burst poison/bleeding/torment/confusion/a bit of burning --- model it after a condi soulbeast + condi chrono
      --> these should have stability to prevent easy pull + cleave

    • Boss Stability heal and regeneration phase at 15%-30% , where its heals can only be stopped if defiance bar is broken (with pulsing stability on a ~10s interval) --- see Archdiviner in Cliffside or the Ice elemental in Underground Facility , but instead of stopping attacks it should continue attacking similar to glint revenants or water weavers in PVP

    • 10% must be finished with some sort of mechanic that requires an environmental item (see Cliffside) or something relying on chill/cripple/immob (not hard CC) to slow any healing reinforcement adds

    If you visit https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fractals_of_the_Mists#List_of_fractals or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Release you will be able to view the chronology of releases.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    There are people who like the newer fractals and the reworked ones, but there also are many people who don't.
    Sunqua being bugged and never getting fixed doesn't help either.

    For me, it mostly comes down to Arenanet's design philosophy.
    Since PoF, most bosses seem to just consist of AoE spam and needlessly high HP.
    It just feels cheaply inflated, rather than them trying to make interesting encounters.

  • Wolfb.7025Wolfb.7025 Member ✭✭✭

    Problem with fractals is that they are meant to be done on a daily basis and it becomes quite repetitive after a while. Both Deepstone and Siren's Reef were neat ideas for fractals, but since most of the fractal players want to get their dailies done asap these became the two most loathed fractals in consecuence.

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  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    There are people who like the newer fractals and the reworked ones, but there also are many people who don't.
    Sunqua being bugged and never getting fixed doesn't help either.

    For me, it mostly comes down to Arenanet's design philosophy.
    Since PoF, most bosses seem to just consist of AoE spam and needlessly high HP.
    It just feels cheaply inflated, rather than them trying to make interesting encounters.

    Not sure how often I told you that the hp is actually too low. Current powercreep allows you to have <3sec phases. Current siax record is 20sec long. Most normal phaseless fractal bosses like chaos endboss or urban endboss die in ~20sec. The TO boss phases after it used like 2 attacks max. The dungeon bossfights in other mmos take usually a lot longer.
    Just because you dont play meta builds doesnt mean that the hp is inflated. WoW mythic dungeon bosses arent balanced around green leveling gear either. A decent team just facerolls through fractals before anything can fight back.
    Amala is a decent designed encounter in my opinion. Same as sunqua peak endboss. Sirens reef wouldnt be so bad if it wasnt for so many meaningless events like the 3 champs on the ship. Just the endboss would have been enough. Normal sunqua takes like 8-10min which is ok for the end of a tier fractal.

  • knite.1542knite.1542 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't like the amount of dialogue and unskippable RP in some of the new fractals. Another thing I don't like is when the same fractal is a daily and a rec. Besides that I don't really mind the new fractals.

    The aquatic fractal rework though, I absolutely despise that.

    If your team wins it's because of everyone else. If your team loses, blame the thief.
    ranger is OP but holo is more OP so its fine
    Why do this matter at all, you have people asking you why play so bad as fractal god?
    If they would pull that kitten on me, i would sue instantly. And i have enough time and money to finish that.
    Balance? More like a bunch of random nerfs done by interns.
    They're far from useless...you just got used to busted levels of dmg...welcome back to planet earth
    The first time someone sees you, they're already thinking about kicking you out of the party..........
    Welcome to WvW, where everything is just a little bit worse

  • The new 100 (susquana peak? can't spell this offhand) is not a good fractal in my honest opinion, The others are pretty good though. My issue is the base fractal (non-cm) is a lengthly long fight that gets absolutely annoying and feels un-rewarding. Even in the low levels, I skip doing recs that day when I see it's one of them. The Challenge mote variant is okay, but the boss is literally completely on rails. Every attack is far too predictable, the main 'challenge' is good CC .... Only to be made recently harder when ArenaNet decided to remove all some of the consumables. This shouldn't be the objective of a well-executed fractal.

  • Personally, I do like new fractals. I don't mind doing the long ones (Laboratory, Sunqua, Siren's Reef, among others that were reworked). What I hate is that it feels that we have to see again and again and again all the cinematics and the everlasting conversations. For example in Sunqua, there are no cinematics but Dessa "chats" a lot with the deer. In Lab, there are both, cinematics AND a lot of talking. I really wish there were a "skip dialogue/cinematic" options just as there is in before Deimos battle. 😶

    And also, I hate some rotation days since the addition of Sunqua xD there is one day where we get to do two times Sunqua (100 as daily, 75 as rec) and honestly... it's TOO TIRING being forced to do the same fractal twice the same day. And Anet won't care to change these rotations, shamely. 😥

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Actually the newest 3 are my favorites by a landslide. I’m also hugely biased by the lore and aesthetics though, the premise of each of those is a large part of why I love them:

    Deepstone - The depths and hidden darkness far below theme, as well as dwarves are things I love and it also gives it a more classic fantasy vibe than a lot of the game

    Sirens Reef - pirates. What more do I say? But seriously, I love the POTC franchise and pirates in fantasy in general and this was my favorite taste of pirates in GW2 so far, they nailed it better than they had before

    Sunqua Peak - Cantha! Or more generally, Asian cultures. I find a lot of that to be very interesting, particularly things like ninja and samurai. I also love elemental stuff more than I can even stress

    I'd rather keep going.. wherever the wind takes us

  • Crystal Paladin.3871Crystal Paladin.3871 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2021

    fractals are fine and the graphics(especially sunqua where it rains sometimes), art, terrain are all super awesome and mechanics are good too.. but the most annoying instabilities like vomit makes it unplayable when paired with any one of these : fragile, stick together and flanking instabilities (though these instab combinations annoys only on deepstone, siren and sunqua)

    thaumanaova reactor last boss with social awkwardness is really annoying... if we stand on the edge, we never know when someone will push us down when executing their dps skills or any skills

    sunqua is a really thought out and well planned and nice fractal .. but the bug where it continuously throws lightning at us got to be fixed... that's an issue

  • Hex.2579Hex.2579 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    All of the new fractals are great. The only thing that was bad was abandoning CMs on Twilight Oasis, Deepstone, and Siren’s Reef and then abandoning fractals completely for over a year. It would be nice to have a rotational tier of CMs (3 a day) to do just like regular T4 dailies (daily CM players already do 5 to 6 fracs a day anyway) but we need more CMs to make that work well. This could have been fairly easily achieved if they just continued to add them with the newer fractals as they released

    I do like all of the new fractals, except Sunqua Peak, not because it's hard or anything. I just think devs spent so much time on polishing the arena, the boss attacks, and all that, but the the actual fight is not fun at all. It feels slow and spread out, it doesn't feel like it's a CM, it's not like Nightmare, or Shattered Observatory, you know, whereas the music, the intensity, the various mechanics that people in the party have to work together to pull through.
    I wish there were Twilight Oasis, Deepstone and even Siren's Reef CMs. Those would be quite awesome.
    I like your ideas and I think it'll make the vets stick around when there are CMs, but it's also not a daily daily so nobody has to do trillion fractals to finish their dailies. But that also means Anet needs to step up their fractal game and starts to make new CMs from the current ones we have.
    On another note, I feel like they'll focus on releasing new fractals now, especially the ones with new expac theme, so old fractals may get ignored again.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    inst the "hell difficult" most ppl says, to me is very behind of shattered observatory difficult.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • The Fear.3865The Fear.3865 Member ✭✭✭

    I like like it a lot lot

  • @Nephalem.8921 said:
    Im one of the few who like sunqua peak because everything is avoidable and can be super fast with a decent group. Sirens reef has the annoying treasure mechanic with a forever lasting debuff. Would be so much better if mobility skills or portals would be allowed.
    Deepstone is ok until the endboss. Spending more time running than fighting is just annoying. Also wasted opportunity. Old dwarven ruins and we fight a boring human.

    @Fuchslein.8639 said:
    Along with all these reworkings you can't do fractals+recs as casual within 30-40min anymore....

    Of course you can. As long as nobody runs pepega builds like MM necro, scourge or druid. You dont have to be a pro to use a fractal build.

    I like new fractals when the group is at least half-decent. Sunqua Peak suffers from poor instabilities since there is already quite a bit of incoming damage that can one-shot you on higher difficulties. I believe this will make players avoid the fractals as they simply do NOT understand why they die. Adding to this discussion; instabilities are a terrible system when most of them are just annoying or have added damage threats for an encounter. BO is a bad instability because it is simply just a BD boost. They should be reworked or removed.

    minecrafter

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I agree with OP, most of them feel drawn out. That being said, I hate it when people just skip all the trash too. I want trash clearing and boss fights, but doesn't take 1 hour.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    I agree with OP, most of them feel drawn out. That being said, I hate it when people just skip all the trash too. I want trash clearing and boss fights, but doesn't take 1 hour.

    Then use damage stat on gear instead of defensive ones

  • Nazarick.9653Nazarick.9653 Member ✭✭
    edited February 10, 2021

    This is from a lower-tier perspective, but the only ones I don't like are Mai Trin (short but annoying), Sirens Reef (good theme but a clusterfck of random kitten at the end), Twilight Oasis (first/last boss and hard to navigate) and Sunqua Peak (buggy and way out of step with the others in terms of difficulty).

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    I agree with OP, most of them feel drawn out. That being said, I hate it when people just skip all the trash too. I want trash clearing and boss fights, but doesn't take 1 hour.

    This. Skipping some is ok, but NOT on Twilight Oasis...the sand bosses aren't a problem later on, but everyone ALWAYS skips the trash at the start and often leads to wipes on the first boss. (in fact an entire group disbanded on it earlier today after 2 wipes)

    (already beginning to regret trying to start on T3)

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Fuchslein.8639 said:
    Along with all these reworkings you can't do fractals+recs as casual within 30-40min anymore....

    Of course you can. As long as nobody runs pepega builds like MM necro, scourge or druid.

    "as casual". Running those builds is very much part of being casual.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Fuchslein.8639 said:
    Along with all these reworkings you can't do fractals+recs as casual within 30-40min anymore....

    Of course you can. As long as nobody runs pepega builds like MM necro, scourge or druid.

    "as casual". Running those builds is very much part of being casual.

    Casual doesnt equal bad. There are countless easy to play builds which allow for fast clears. Reaper, no kit holo and firebrand are very simple. casual is used way too often as an excuse for not having to read skills or traits. T4 is basically pve endgame. T4 shouldnt even be completeable by random builds.
    a meta team can clear t4 + recs in 15min without cms. 20 with longer fracs and less optimized strats. 40 should be very doable for casuals which use decent builds.

  • If you mean Sunqua Peak, yes definately. It is very well designed and has a fitting story line. Recently there is a bug upon completion the group not get it mark cleared. So do fix. Also 3 bosses in a frac is time consuming considering each try will take like 40 minutes? Painful if lose the fight.

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 13, 2021

    Deepstone and Twilight Oasis are relatively short once you know the mechanics, just a bit of slowdown from the puzzles.

    Shattered Observatory is always too slow because the bosses are just health sponges. If their health were reduced it'd be the perfect Fractal, because like Underground it has good mechanics otherwise.

    Siren's Reef was a bad idea conceptually, the entire Fractal seems based around the idea of just bombarding you with a million enemies constantly in all stages, which is very contrary to the design of other Fractals which encourage strategy. I find it to be the weakest of all the Fractals for this reason, as while it does encourage build diversity its also very noisey and quite irritating and sluggish.

    Sunqua Peak boss moves around way too much, and CC windows are your only oppertunity to do any damage because of it. As a result its quite possibly the most stressful Fractal for a melee player, which is the majority of DPSers.

    Hannah | Daisuki[SUKI] Founder, Ehmry Bay, NA | 24 charas, 18k hours, 29k AP | ♀♥♀
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  • @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Fuchslein.8639 said:
    Along with all these reworkings you can't do fractals+recs as casual within 30-40min anymore....

    Of course you can. As long as nobody runs pepega builds like MM necro, scourge or druid.

    "as casual". Running those builds is very much part of being casual.

    Casual doesnt equal bad. There are countless easy to play builds which allow for fast clears. Reaper, no kit holo and firebrand are very simple. casual is used way too often as an excuse for not having to read skills or traits. T4 is basically pve endgame. T4 shouldnt even be completeable by random builds.
    a meta team can clear t4 + recs in 15min without cms. 20 with longer fracs and less optimized strats. 40 should be very doable for casuals which use decent builds.

    I would like to have video proof please how you run fractals every day in 20 or even 15min, with random, casuals groups(no groups that have XY prerequisites).
    I play meta btw, but don't want to tell anyone what to play. I never did that and never had problems with it until my new start a few months ago. I often ran CM's 2 years ago with people who didn't run meta and weren't that good, but we still managed to do everything in a time that made "daily's" sense.

    Two years ago this was still possible for me, because 90% of the fractals were very short and you didn't have to listen to most of the babble.
    Meanwhile, the fractals are so drawn out and so overlaid with 'mechanics' that the "Dailys", for me personally no longer makes sense.

    Of course, this is all just my experience. If you have other experiences that's fine for you, but doesn't make mine obsolete.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Deepstone and Twilight Oasis are relatively short once you know the mechanics, just a bit of slowdown from the puzzles.

    Shattered Observatory is always too slow because the bosses are just health sponges. If their health were reduced it'd be the perfect Fractal, because like Underground it has good mechanics otherwise.

    Skorvald has currently <5sec phases. Artsariiv usually takes 1.40-2min in cm so like 1.30 normal. should be reasonable. Arkk lasts 1.40-2.20 which is also ok. Can be done within 8min quite casually in cm. Its the rp in normal mode that steals time.

    @Fuchslein.8639 said:
    I would like to have video proof please how you run fractals every day in 20 or even 15min, with random, casuals groups(no groups that have XY prerequisites).

    I mentioned meta groups for the 15-20min runs. 40 should be doable.

    I play meta btw, but don't want to tell anyone what to play. I never did that and never had problems with it until my new start a few months ago. I often ran CM's 2 years ago with people who didn't run meta and weren't that good, but we still managed to do everything in a time that made "daily's" sense.

    Most of the fractals are exactly the same. especially the 2 cms. Only power weaver got nerfed but i doubt that offmeta pugs played that. the forced rp is indeed annoying as heck but one of the worst offenders got even speed up. molten furnace was probably the longest. back then a chrono could carry all the buffs and cc. thats not possible anymore. Dps increased a lot since then thanks to diviner and buffs to warrior and all other classes.

    Two years ago this was still possible for me, because 90% of the fractals were very short and you didn't have to listen to most of the babble.
    Meanwhile, the fractals are so drawn out and so overlaid with 'mechanics' that the "Dailys", for me personally no longer makes sense.

    Which fractals are too long? Only deepstone, sirens reef and sunqua are a bit longer. sunqua is the end of a tier and should be harder than the rest. the only problem is that sunqua can be daily and rec at the same time.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Fuchslein.8639 said:
    I would like to have video proof please how you run fractals every day in 20 or even 15min, with random, casuals groups(no groups that have XY prerequisites).

    I mentioned meta groups for the 15-20min runs. 40 should be doable.

    As the devs informed us at some point, 40 mins is the average completion time for Twilight Oasis alone.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Scorgrim.5290Scorgrim.5290 Member
    edited February 13, 2021

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    As the devs informed us at some point, 40 mins is the average completion time for Twilight Oasis alone.

    I'd guess that was before the removal of one of the elites and possibly one of the reasons they removed it.

  • @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Hannelore.8153 said:
    Deepstone and Twilight Oasis are relatively short once you know the mechanics, just a bit of slowdown from the puzzles.

    Shattered Observatory is always too slow because the bosses are just health sponges. If their health were reduced it'd be the perfect Fractal, because like Underground it has good mechanics otherwise.

    Skorvald has currently <5sec phases. Artsariiv usually takes 1.40-2min in cm so like 1.30 normal. should be reasonable. Arkk lasts 1.40-2.20 which is also ok. Can be done within 8min quite casually in cm. Its the rp in normal mode that steals time.

    @Fuchslein.8639 said:
    I would like to have video proof please how you run fractals every day in 20 or even 15min, with random, casuals groups(no groups that have XY prerequisites).

    I mentioned meta groups for the 15-20min runs. 40 should be doable.

    I play meta btw, but don't want to tell anyone what to play. I never did that and never had problems with it until my new start a few months ago. I often ran CM's 2 years ago with people who didn't run meta and weren't that good, but we still managed to do everything in a time that made "daily's" sense.

    Most of the fractals are exactly the same. especially the 2 cms. Only power weaver got nerfed but i doubt that offmeta pugs played that. the forced rp is indeed annoying as heck but one of the worst offenders got even speed up. molten furnace was probably the longest. back then a chrono could carry all the buffs and cc. thats not possible anymore. Dps increased a lot since then thanks to diviner and buffs to warrior and all other classes.

    Two years ago this was still possible for me, because 90% of the fractals were very short and you didn't have to listen to most of the babble.
    Meanwhile, the fractals are so drawn out and so overlaid with 'mechanics' that the "Dailys", for me personally no longer makes sense.

    Which fractals are too long? Only deepstone, sirens reef and sunqua are a bit longer. sunqua is the end of a tier and should be harder than the rest. the only problem is that sunqua can be daily and rec at the same time.

    "Do people actually like the new fractals?"

    All the new fractals. With Twilight or Observatory it started that the devs specialized more and more in long fractals with heaps of mechanics and blinbling.
    Then old fractals were reworked like Mai Trin, Swampland or Molten Duo as an example.

    As I said, I used to do the Frak dailies+req PLUS Nithgmare CM often in 30-40min with randoms, without special group requirements.
    Nowadays it looks different for me personally. Which is why I have lost the desire to fractals. Because as I said, it either takes a super long time, or, more likely, people simply skip many fractals and call it a day.
    And I don't have the time to hang on to a Frak-static anymore, because my playtimes are very different.

  • medivh.4725medivh.4725 Member ✭✭
    edited February 14, 2021

    On a same day, daily should never be repeated as Rec. The 5 who just fought off the same stage, imagine how they feel. Each frac is about 20-30 minutes.
    Rather make more fracs. Be it a GW1 content, extended side story, fight the outlaws, etc etc. It will be more interesting then playing the same frac two times in one day.

  • @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @Fuchslein.8639 said:
    Along with all these reworkings you can't do fractals+recs as casual within 30-40min anymore....

    Of course you can. As long as nobody runs pepega builds like MM necro, scourge or druid.

    "as casual". Running those builds is very much part of being casual.

    Casual doesnt equal bad. There are countless easy to play builds which allow for fast clears. Reaper, no kit holo and firebrand are very simple. casual is used way too often as an excuse for not having to read skills or traits. T4 is basically pve endgame. T4 shouldnt even be completeable by random builds.
    a meta team can clear t4 + recs in 15min without cms. 20 with longer fracs and less optimized strats. 40 should be very doable for casuals which use decent builds.

    Sry, but in which world people can complete T4´s+Recs in 15 mins ? Might be possible with a record- team grinding it + waiting for the perfect combinations of fracs and good instabs for it but no way as an normal time for a daily clear.
    Even without looking at the team-comp or how serious your approch is that is way too low.
    The average record- time for most t4-fraks is around 3- 3:30 with the faster ones being 2- 2 1/2 and the slower ones being 4 1/2 to 6 Mins.
    And then there are some even longer ones where noone bothers with records like Sirens or Sunqua.
    And those records are with perfectly optimized team comps for every fractal + skips + good instabs + alot of grind.
    So even with a good cm-group you are probably looking at 15-20 Mins for t4´s alone + another 8-10 mins for recs since even on t1-t3 most fracs cant be done under 2-3 mins.
    Obviously with a good team you can get fracs done pretty fast but no way in hell you gonna do them that fast.
    I would say you can probably say something around 25-30 Mins is your average for t4+recs with a solid cm-group. Including CM´s before you are looking at around 1 hr.
    With your average T4-Pugs its more like 45 mins for t4+recs if instabs/fracs are good and more like 1 hr if the fracs/instab are rather bad.

  • The Fractals are fine for me, new one was amazing, my problem is these cancerous instabilities, basically "everything kills you in one hit now, yay".

    It's one of the reasons why Block and Barrier are the new "meta" instead of healing, you can't heal a dredge outflanking you while you have frailty, but you can block that 20k damage you will receive hehe, i even remember a time when you could easily do T4 Fractals without any healer or support, even with pugs, used to do that a lot, now it's next to impossible to do.

    Like, i have no problems dealing with those (except that trash combo of Afflicted in the last boss of Aquatic), but since i only pug, it became unbearable to do them for me, and since most of the "veterans" have left, you have a lot of new people, so you have to go from group to group, failing a lot, till you find the right one.
    I stopped doing them like 3 or 4 months before the new Fractal, then it launched, i did it a few times, even at T4, but stopped for good since then.

    It's a shame, my favorite piece of content in the entire game.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Brandon Uzumaki.1524 said:
    The Fractals are fine for me, new one was amazing, my problem is these cancerous instabilities, basically "everything kills you in one hit now, yay".

    It's one of the reasons why Block and Barrier are the new "meta" instead of healing, you can't heal a dredge outflanking you while you have frailty, but you can block that 20k damage you will receive hehe, i even remember a time when you could easily do T4 Fractals without any healer or support, even with pugs, used to do that a lot, now it's next to impossible to do.

    Like, i have no problems dealing with those (except that trash combo of Afflicted in the last boss of Aquatic), but since i only pug, it became unbearable to do them for me, and since most of the "veterans" have left, you have a lot of new people, so you have to go from group to group, failing a lot, till you find the right one.
    I stopped doing them like 3 or 4 months before the new Fractal, then it launched, i did it a few times, even at T4, but stopped for good since then.

    It's a shame, my favorite piece of content in the entire game.

    What do you mean with new meta? This was always the case. Back in 2012 healing wasnt even an option. Outhealing the damage and mechanics should never be an option. Before fb ren it was chrono or chrono power druid. Pugs usually took a heal druid. before that it was no healer at all. Good players are still playing without a healer.