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  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    For Rev I think they need a norn (Jora with Greatsword) or an Asura (Vekk with scepter or Focus).

    Neither norn nor asura have anything to do with cantha, thought. Sure you can hide a giant ancient asura city there lost for centuries (just like in HoT) but that would be a bit ridiculous. That or something from the futur (since the mists don't really care about the timeline), still the norns hardly have anything to do with cantha, that's just not their domain.

    Doesn't matter. Kalla had nothing to do with the Desert, and there is already a Cantha themed Legend.

    Considering how hyped Cantha is by the community, I think it would be a waste not to give revenant a legend that has lore ties to Cantha.
    Not saying that they have to be human necessarily, but something that was relevant in Canthan lore would be great.

    Maybe a legendary Naga, for example.

  • Hypnowulf.7403Hypnowulf.7403 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2021

    I've been musing over what a tengu engineer would look like. I wonder given their aesthetic if it would yield the power of wind—using special axes with rotary blades. That'd be pretty fun. Lots of crowd control and condition damage options.

    It would behoove them to have a Mary Poppins ability as well as an alternative to gliding down when tossed up into the air. I would be all for that.

    I'm also envisioning a support swiftness move with their axes held out in front of them. It'd look utterly ridiculous. Everything about this elite spec would and I'm already a little bit too into it.

  • @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    For Rev I think they need a norn (Jora with Greatsword) or an Asura (Vekk with scepter or Focus).

    Neither norn nor asura have anything to do with cantha, thought. Sure you can hide a giant ancient asura city there lost for centuries (just like in HoT) but that would be a bit ridiculous. That or something from the futur (since the mists don't really care about the timeline), still the norns hardly have anything to do with cantha, that's just not their domain.

    Doesn't matter. Kalla had nothing to do with the Desert, and there is already a Cantha themed Legend.

    Considering how hyped Cantha is by the community, I think it would be a waste not to give revenant a legend that has lore ties to Cantha.
    Not saying that they have to be human necessarily, but something that was relevant in Canthan lore would be great.

    Maybe a legendary Naga, for example.

    Then give us Talon Silverwing. I bet Tengu will be involved anyway. Can still do Greatsword then since he was a swordmaster.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Then give us Talon Silverwing. I bet Tengu will be involved anyway. Can still do Greatsword then since he was a swordmaster.

    Unfortunately, Talon doesn't have enough of an impact in history to really be a legend. Unless ANet develop it's character's lore beyond Faction into something truly life changing for the tengus, I can hardly see him being a legend. The Peace between tengu and human that togo, talon, and the 2 other tengu chieftain worked for only lasted from 1071 to 1080, It's not significant enough as it is. As for kicking Shiro in the buisness district, he was but a secondary character with, at best, a minor impact.

    You could have an e-spec related to their religion, thought:

    Canthan tengu of old believed in an afterlife, which they called the Sky Above the Sky. A sect of tengu were known to have guarded the Celestials during the Canthan Trials of Ascension, meaning defeating them was necessary to become Weh no Su, but their connection to the mainstream tengu belief system is unknown.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    To be honest, I don't think togo had enough of an impact to become a legend. As a GW1 player I'd be very tempted to but that's all.

    From my point of view, the next revenant e-spec's legend won't be another human legend. I think a prime candidate for an e-spec would be "Nightmare" with Kanaxai as a legendary Nightmare (which is listed both as a demon and a nightmare). I'd model the e-spec after the mesmer with an inbuilt (Upkeep F skill) way to create a nightmare (clone) based on your current legend that harass your target and/or support your allies. It's skills could be aspects (there is 16 of them to chose from in Kanaxai's instance so there is enough material for ANet to make something) working similarly to Herald's facet but as debuff instead of buff (or each of these skills creating a nightmare with an upkeep). Weapon being Off-hand axe because "kanaxai's flavor".

    If I let my fantasy lead me I'd even say that the dreamy aspect of EoD teaser support my claim ;)

    What I don't understand is why people are always saying that the next legend won't be a human again as if there would be an overrepresentation of humans in revenants legends.

    There is just 1 human legend for revenant, Shiro. All the other legends are not human.

    • Ventari -> Centaur
    • Mallyx -> Demon
    • Jalis -> Dwarf
    • Glint -> Dragon
    • Kalla -> Charr

    So I think a human legend is still very well possible.

  • @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    To be honest, I don't think togo had enough of an impact to become a legend. As a GW1 player I'd be very tempted to but that's all.

    From my point of view, the next revenant e-spec's legend won't be another human legend. I think a prime candidate for an e-spec would be "Nightmare" with Kanaxai as a legendary Nightmare (which is listed both as a demon and a nightmare). I'd model the e-spec after the mesmer with an inbuilt (Upkeep F skill) way to create a nightmare (clone) based on your current legend that harass your target and/or support your allies. It's skills could be aspects (there is 16 of them to chose from in Kanaxai's instance so there is enough material for ANet to make something) working similarly to Herald's facet but as debuff instead of buff (or each of these skills creating a nightmare with an upkeep). Weapon being Off-hand axe because "kanaxai's flavor".

    If I let my fantasy lead me I'd even say that the dreamy aspect of EoD teaser support my claim ;)

    What I don't understand is why people are always saying that the next legend won't be a human again as if there would be an overrepresentation of humans in revenants legends.

    There is just 1 human legend for revenant, Shiro. All the other legends are not human.

    • Ventari -> Centaur
    • Mallyx -> Demon
    • Jalis -> Dwarf
    • Glint -> Dragon
    • Kalla -> Charr

    So I think a human legend is still very well possible.

    Ventari would also be Sylvari. They haven't been around long enough for one of their own to really become legendary enough. No Treesus please.

    There are not Asuran legends nor are there any Norn legends. The new Rev espec should be one of those.

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    To be honest, I don't think togo had enough of an impact to become a legend. As a GW1 player I'd be very tempted to but that's all.

    From my point of view, the next revenant e-spec's legend won't be another human legend. I think a prime candidate for an e-spec would be "Nightmare" with Kanaxai as a legendary Nightmare (which is listed both as a demon and a nightmare). I'd model the e-spec after the mesmer with an inbuilt (Upkeep F skill) way to create a nightmare (clone) based on your current legend that harass your target and/or support your allies. It's skills could be aspects (there is 16 of them to chose from in Kanaxai's instance so there is enough material for ANet to make something) working similarly to Herald's facet but as debuff instead of buff (or each of these skills creating a nightmare with an upkeep). Weapon being Off-hand axe because "kanaxai's flavor".

    If I let my fantasy lead me I'd even say that the dreamy aspect of EoD teaser support my claim ;)

    What I don't understand is why people are always saying that the next legend won't be a human again as if there would be an overrepresentation of humans in revenants legends.

    There is just 1 human legend for revenant, Shiro. All the other legends are not human.

    • Ventari -> Centaur
    • Mallyx -> Demon
    • Jalis -> Dwarf
    • Glint -> Dragon
    • Kalla -> Charr

    So I think a human legend is still very well possible.

    Ventari would also be Sylvari. They haven't been around long enough for one of their own to really become legendary enough. No Treesus please.

    There are not Asuran legends nor are there any Norn legends. The new Rev espec should be one of those.

    There is an exception when it comes to Sylvari.
    I don't think you can deny that Scarlet had a major impact on the world and should be up there in the legendary tier, even if these have been fairly recent events.

    Still disagree that Norn or Asura should be the legend and also disagree with a Sylvari one (aka Scarlet) because of the point I mentioned: I think it would be a waste to not give us a Canthan legend for that expansion.

  • @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    To be honest, I don't think togo had enough of an impact to become a legend. As a GW1 player I'd be very tempted to but that's all.

    From my point of view, the next revenant e-spec's legend won't be another human legend. I think a prime candidate for an e-spec would be "Nightmare" with Kanaxai as a legendary Nightmare (which is listed both as a demon and a nightmare). I'd model the e-spec after the mesmer with an inbuilt (Upkeep F skill) way to create a nightmare (clone) based on your current legend that harass your target and/or support your allies. It's skills could be aspects (there is 16 of them to chose from in Kanaxai's instance so there is enough material for ANet to make something) working similarly to Herald's facet but as debuff instead of buff (or each of these skills creating a nightmare with an upkeep). Weapon being Off-hand axe because "kanaxai's flavor".

    If I let my fantasy lead me I'd even say that the dreamy aspect of EoD teaser support my claim ;)

    What I don't understand is why people are always saying that the next legend won't be a human again as if there would be an overrepresentation of humans in revenants legends.

    There is just 1 human legend for revenant, Shiro. All the other legends are not human.

    • Ventari -> Centaur
    • Mallyx -> Demon
    • Jalis -> Dwarf
    • Glint -> Dragon
    • Kalla -> Charr

    So I think a human legend is still very well possible.

    Ventari would also be Sylvari. They haven't been around long enough for one of their own to really become legendary enough. No Treesus please.

    There are not Asuran legends nor are there any Norn legends. The new Rev espec should be one of those.

    There is an exception when it comes to Sylvari.
    I don't think you can deny that Scarlet had a major impact on the world and should be up there in the legendary tier, even if these have been fairly recent events.

    Still disagree that Norn or Asura should be the legend and also disagree with a Sylvari one (aka Scarlet) because of the point I mentioned: I think it would be a waste to not give us a Canthan legend for that expansion.

    I mean, it is a waste to not have Scarlet become a legendary stance. Not to mention she'd be perfect for those that want more range options with rev, but I do understand that there are those that also want more melee options. (Seriously, Rev needs a larger weapon selection.) For melee, I think Talon would be a good choice if Anet expands their lore.

    "Choose your friends wisely, and also choose friends that you can trust." - Elyn Saks

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ZarexWolf.5637 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    To be honest, I don't think togo had enough of an impact to become a legend. As a GW1 player I'd be very tempted to but that's all.

    From my point of view, the next revenant e-spec's legend won't be another human legend. I think a prime candidate for an e-spec would be "Nightmare" with Kanaxai as a legendary Nightmare (which is listed both as a demon and a nightmare). I'd model the e-spec after the mesmer with an inbuilt (Upkeep F skill) way to create a nightmare (clone) based on your current legend that harass your target and/or support your allies. It's skills could be aspects (there is 16 of them to chose from in Kanaxai's instance so there is enough material for ANet to make something) working similarly to Herald's facet but as debuff instead of buff (or each of these skills creating a nightmare with an upkeep). Weapon being Off-hand axe because "kanaxai's flavor".

    If I let my fantasy lead me I'd even say that the dreamy aspect of EoD teaser support my claim ;)

    What I don't understand is why people are always saying that the next legend won't be a human again as if there would be an overrepresentation of humans in revenants legends.

    There is just 1 human legend for revenant, Shiro. All the other legends are not human.

    • Ventari -> Centaur
    • Mallyx -> Demon
    • Jalis -> Dwarf
    • Glint -> Dragon
    • Kalla -> Charr

    So I think a human legend is still very well possible.

    Ventari would also be Sylvari. They haven't been around long enough for one of their own to really become legendary enough. No Treesus please.

    There are not Asuran legends nor are there any Norn legends. The new Rev espec should be one of those.

    There is an exception when it comes to Sylvari.
    I don't think you can deny that Scarlet had a major impact on the world and should be up there in the legendary tier, even if these have been fairly recent events.

    Still disagree that Norn or Asura should be the legend and also disagree with a Sylvari one (aka Scarlet) because of the point I mentioned: I think it would be a waste to not give us a Canthan legend for that expansion.

    I mean, it is a waste to not have Scarlet become a legendary stance. Not to mention she'd be perfect for those that want more range options with rev, but I do understand that there are those that also want more melee options. (Seriously, Rev needs a larger weapon selection.) For melee, I think Talon would be a good choice if Anet expands their lore.

    Scarlet definitely is one of the big players in the lore, hence why I mentioned her.
    But I just mentioned Scarlet for the sake of acknowledging her. I think she is not a good choice for the next elite spec (or any coming future elite spec, really).

    There are some points which speak against Scarlet.
    She wouldn't enhance the lore alot, unlike other legends. We discovered alot about Scarlet's past already when we dealt with her.
    Also her thematic: Scarlet basically has been a holosmith herself. Holosmith even referrences one of her iconic abilities in their ultimates, the prime light beam.
    In general, holograms and hard light have been defining for her as a character. Sure, there have been mechanical creatures created by her. But Scarlet herself mostly attacked with lasers and such.

    Which makes her too close thematically to holosmith to happen in my opinion.
    I love Scarlet, was one of my favourite characters in this game and she really is worthy of the title of a legend.
    But looking at what it would mean for an elite spec, I think it is better not to use her as a revenant elite spec.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2021

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    To be honest, I don't think togo had enough of an impact to become a legend. As a GW1 player I'd be very tempted to but that's all.

    From my point of view, the next revenant e-spec's legend won't be another human legend. I think a prime candidate for an e-spec would be "Nightmare" with Kanaxai as a legendary Nightmare (which is listed both as a demon and a nightmare). I'd model the e-spec after the mesmer with an inbuilt (Upkeep F skill) way to create a nightmare (clone) based on your current legend that harass your target and/or support your allies. It's skills could be aspects (there is 16 of them to chose from in Kanaxai's instance so there is enough material for ANet to make something) working similarly to Herald's facet but as debuff instead of buff (or each of these skills creating a nightmare with an upkeep). Weapon being Off-hand axe because "kanaxai's flavor".

    If I let my fantasy lead me I'd even say that the dreamy aspect of EoD teaser support my claim ;)

    What I don't understand is why people are always saying that the next legend won't be a human again as if there would be an overrepresentation of humans in revenants legends.

    There is just 1 human legend for revenant, Shiro. All the other legends are not human.

    • Ventari -> Centaur
    • Mallyx -> Demon
    • Jalis -> Dwarf
    • Glint -> Dragon
    • Kalla -> Charr

    So I think a human legend is still very well possible.

    That's exactly why I'm saying the "human"-slot has already been used. 2 humans would throw everything off-balance. Probably also the reason why revs started off with Mallyx instead of Varesh. I doubt another human legend will happen.
    Svanir still seems to be the most likely candidate to me after IBS concludes and we enter Cantha, as a Norn-Legend.

    *...the biggest challenge in creating more is the small audience they attract.* - Andrew Gray, February 3, 2020

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2021

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    What I don't understand is why people are always saying that the next legend won't be a human again as if there would be an overrepresentation of humans in revenants legends.

    I think people actually refer to the theme of the legend in such cases, not the actual race of the legends.

    There is just 1 human legend for revenant, Shiro. All the other legends are not human.

    Shiro is just Shiro the human, plain and simple.

    For the gameplay, Ventari's legend is based on the Tablet.
    But his legend and importance in history is that he grew tired of being at war with humans.
    Also, he was able to befriend a Ronan, the human who planted the Pale Tree.

    Mallyx is the strongest Margonite Demon.
    Margonites were humans before being turned into demons.

    Jalis' Legend is centered around the Rite of the Great Dwarf, which required the Hammer of the Great Dwarf that had been retrieved by human heroes.

    Glint as a Legend is based on Rytlock in the Mists and teaching him Revenant/Herald magic, making it a Charr-themed elite specialization,
    but the names of the skills are actually based on bosses that human heroes faced in her lair.

    Some of it is a stretch, but Kalla is the only stance that seemingly has no connection to humans.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Here are my 9 elite specialization ideas, check them out, I'm sure you'll like them:

    Skyfire - Trickster - Apothecary - Dreadnought - Bulwark - Shadowblade - Spiritcaller - Windwalker - Thunderlord

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    I know a large number of Revenants what Greatsword with the new espec, so I'd throw my vote that direction.

    I think a Iajitsu set of skills would be interesting.

    I think that's the most likely scenario too. Greatsword, with movements based on Japanese sword techniques.

    The legend would be a tengu, probably the unnamed descendant of Talon Silverwing who led the tengu exodus away from Cantha, leading to the foundation of the Dominion of Winds. We don't know anything about him, but I wouldn't be surprised if his name is Tsuru Whitewing, considering that character has always been so suspicious and out of place. A secondary reveal, if you wish, just like Mordremoth's name was revealed through some obscure skill in Crucible of Eternity.

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @ZarexWolf.5637 said:
    So, I just had a thought, maybe Revenant could get the Legendary Prisoner stance that was used for a certain part of the story, if that's still possible. Not sure what weapons could be chosen, but it'd definitely be interesting. Though, I prefer Scarlet over Joko in all honesty, which could tie into the use of rifles like I mentioned earlier. Sorry if I've been all over the place with this post.

    Joko.

    Legendary Lich Stance. Summons Minions. Uses Scepter.

    Revenant already got summons with the last elite spec, so I don't think minions are really a good choice.

    I also would go for a scepter for revenant, but make it Canthan flavoured: Legendary Ritualist, Master Togo as the legend to invoke and the skill type associated with him would be weapon spells!

    Basically functions like venoms, you buff allies around you with weapon spells which enhance the next x outgoing attacks.

    To be honest, I don't think togo had enough of an impact to become a legend. As a GW1 player I'd be very tempted to but that's all.

    From my point of view, the next revenant e-spec's legend won't be another human legend. I think a prime candidate for an e-spec would be "Nightmare" with Kanaxai as a legendary Nightmare (which is listed both as a demon and a nightmare). I'd model the e-spec after the mesmer with an inbuilt (Upkeep F skill) way to create a nightmare (clone) based on your current legend that harass your target and/or support your allies. It's skills could be aspects (there is 16 of them to chose from in Kanaxai's instance so there is enough material for ANet to make something) working similarly to Herald's facet but as debuff instead of buff (or each of these skills creating a nightmare with an upkeep). Weapon being Off-hand axe because "kanaxai's flavor".

    If I let my fantasy lead me I'd even say that the dreamy aspect of EoD teaser support my claim ;)

    Kanaxai is even less relevant than Togo lol, and I'm not defending Togo there, both characters are pretty irrelevant for the bigger picture.

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    More of my candidates:

    • Nornbear/Svanir for obvious reasons (GS, MH Axe or MH Dagger)
    • Balthazar (may be too close to "human", and we already have Shiro)
    • Menzies as "Legendary Nightmare" (same problem as Balthazar, may be too closely tied to human)
    • Varesh (Margonite, very unlikely as she's too close to human and Mallyx/demon)
    • Torivos (dual axes, Legendary Envoy, could be a problem since he used to be human in the past)

    Out of them Svanir seems to be the most likely. Fits the evil role for balance, is part of a race that isn't represented in the revenants current lineup (Norn) and would fit into a selfish dps role (Glint and Kalla have been more on the supportive side IMO).

    None of those are any good imo; except Varesh, we should have gotten her instead of Mallyx. I mean, you had this kitten woman general who became the prophet of a dark god, and you chose a random demon gorilla with no personality beyond "me smash" instead? Come on, ArenaNet. Even Lord Jadoth would have been a better choice.

    The norn legend, if we ever get one, would be Asgeir Dragonrender. Svanir was just a random dude who got corrupted and had no power or relevance of his own. His only merit is being the first norn to get corrupted by Jormag.

    Legends should represent characters who had a great impact on history, plus a rich background that lets them channel unique powers not available otherwise. Also, they don't have to be GW1 characters, there's centuries of history, before and after GW1, be more original guys.

    Also, I don't think characters who were overpowered in lore work well, since they don't provide a realistic and enjoyable interaction. Shiro, Kalla, Ventari... you can have normal conversations with them. Mallyx and Glint are just terrible, they have nothing interesting to say since they're supposed to be god-tier creatures who know all the secrets of the universe.

    @Dadnir.5038 said:
    Well, I'm saying Kanaxai with the fact that he is part of Cantha's lore. I want to assume that the revenant's legend will have something to do with cantha more than core, nightfall or eye of the north. Apart from Svanir that have nothing to do with cantha, all your candidate are tied to humanity and If it was a spec tied to humanity I'd rather see a legend more meaningful than varesh (which is basically no better candidate than togo), Jadoth would probably be the better candidate.

    Personally, my candidates are:

    • Kanaxai (obviously)
    • A kraken, Zhu Hanuku (because that would be kitten and we fight a kraken in one of faction's mission). ANet could twist the e-spec into something close to norn's racial abilities.
    • An emperor (but it's to closely related to human)
    • A tengu (No idea how it could be twisted nor which tengu would be suitable, thought)
    • Kuunawang or Albrax (But we already have Glint as a dragon)
    • A Naga, Hanasha coralfin (A thematic about revenge and revival. Not sure she would associate herself to humans, thought.)

    Both Hanasha Coralfin and Magadore are pretty interesting, but might be too obscure since we barely know anything about them. I think they would work better as villains in Cantha.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    For Rev I think they need a norn (Jora with Greatsword) or an Asura (Vekk with scepter or Focus).

    Neither norn nor asura have anything to do with cantha, thought. Sure you can hide a giant ancient asura city there lost for centuries (just like in HoT) but that would be a bit ridiculous. That or something from the futur (since the mists don't really care about the timeline), still the norns hardly have anything to do with cantha, that's just not their domain.

    Doesn't matter. Kalla had nothing to do with the Desert, and there is already a Cantha themed Legend.

    Kalla had revolutionary themes that matched PoF, plus she connected well with both the Olmakhan and the charr civil war later on.

    I was pretty annoyed at her at the beginning as well, but I've grown to love her introduction. Just wish it had been handled a bit better from the very beginning.

    @Hypnowulf.7403 said:
    I've been musing over what a tengu engineer would look like. I wonder given their aesthetic if it would yield the power of wind—using special axes with rotary blades. That'd be pretty fun. Lots of crowd control and condition damage options.

    It would behoove them to have a Mary Poppins ability as well as an alternative to gliding down when tossed up into the air. I would be all for that.

    I'm also envisioning a support swiftness move with their axes held out in front of them. It'd look utterly ridiculous. Everything about this elite spec would and I'm already a little bit too into it.

    That's quite an interesting concept, pretty hillarious as well.

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    For Rev I think they need a norn (Jora with Greatsword) or an Asura (Vekk with scepter or Focus).

    Neither norn nor asura have anything to do with cantha, thought. Sure you can hide a giant ancient asura city there lost for centuries (just like in HoT) but that would be a bit ridiculous. That or something from the futur (since the mists don't really care about the timeline), still the norns hardly have anything to do with cantha, that's just not their domain.

    Doesn't matter. Kalla had nothing to do with the Desert, and there is already a Cantha themed Legend.

    Considering how hyped Cantha is by the community, I think it would be a waste not to give revenant a legend that has lore ties to Cantha.
    Not saying that they have to be human necessarily, but something that was relevant in Canthan lore would be great.

    Maybe a legendary Naga, for example.

    Then give us Talon Silverwing. I bet Tengu will be involved anyway. Can still do Greatsword then since he was a swordmaster.

    Talon Silverwing's son/grandson led the tengu away from Cantha, into the Dominion of Winds. He's the ideal legend for the expansion imo.

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    Then give us Talon Silverwing. I bet Tengu will be involved anyway. Can still do Greatsword then since he was a swordmaster.

    Unfortunately, Talon doesn't have enough of an impact in history to really be a legend. Unless ANet develop it's character's lore beyond Faction into something truly life changing for the tengus, I can hardly see him being a legend. The Peace between tengu and human that togo, talon, and the 2 other tengu chieftain worked for only lasted from 1071 to 1080, It's not significant enough as it is. As for kicking Shiro in the buisness district, he was but a secondary character with, at best, a minor impact.

    You could have an e-spec related to their religion, thought:

    Canthan tengu of old believed in an afterlife, which they called the Sky Above the Sky. A sect of tengu were known to have guarded the Celestials during the Canthan Trials of Ascension, meaning defeating them was necessary to become Weh no Su, but their connection to the mainstream tengu belief system is unknown.

    Talon Silverwing was a general during the Tengu Wars, probably for a few decades, and that's pretty much Cantha's biggest known event. Of all GW1 Factions characters, he's the second one with the most potential to become a legend, right after Shiro Tagachi. The Talon you meet during GW1 is an old retired warrior, with lot of history behind him.

    I think his descendant is a far better candidate, but Talon is a pretty good option as well. Tengu live longer than humans, but the exact numbers haven't been established. For all we know, Talon could have been alive during Usoku's purges. All we need for him to be the perfect candidate is a short story where he stays behind and sacrifices to let the rest of the Angchu tengu escape north to Tyria. Then you would have a character who lived through both the Tengu Wars and Usoku's purges, making him pretty much the most kitten character ever to walk Cantha.

    I still prefer a new character, his son/grandson would be perfect for the role, even if we keep Talon's presence and sacrifice around. But yeah, don't mess up with Talon Silverwing, he has a ton of potential.

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    To be honest, I don't think togo had enough of an impact to become a legend. As a GW1 player I'd be very tempted to but that's all.

    From my point of view, the next revenant e-spec's legend won't be another human legend. I think a prime candidate for an e-spec would be "Nightmare" with Kanaxai as a legendary Nightmare (which is listed both as a demon and a nightmare). I'd model the e-spec after the mesmer with an inbuilt (Upkeep F skill) way to create a nightmare (clone) based on your current legend that harass your target and/or support your allies. It's skills could be aspects (there is 16 of them to chose from in Kanaxai's instance so there is enough material for ANet to make something) working similarly to Herald's facet but as debuff instead of buff (or each of these skills creating a nightmare with an upkeep). Weapon being Off-hand axe because "kanaxai's flavor".

    If I let my fantasy lead me I'd even say that the dreamy aspect of EoD teaser support my claim ;)

    What I don't understand is why people are always saying that the next legend won't be a human again as if there would be an overrepresentation of humans in revenants legends.

    There is just 1 human legend for revenant, Shiro. All the other legends are not human.

    • Ventari -> Centaur
    • Mallyx -> Demon
    • Jalis -> Dwarf
    • Glint -> Dragon
    • Kalla -> Charr

    So I think a human legend is still very well possible.

    I think it's going to be a tengu, but still, believing we won't get another human legend just because representation is simply dumb. There's nothing stopping ArenaNet from only releasing human legends from now on, specially when you consider most of the lore is about humans.

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @ZarexWolf.5637 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    To be honest, I don't think togo had enough of an impact to become a legend. As a GW1 player I'd be very tempted to but that's all.

    From my point of view, the next revenant e-spec's legend won't be another human legend. I think a prime candidate for an e-spec would be "Nightmare" with Kanaxai as a legendary Nightmare (which is listed both as a demon and a nightmare). I'd model the e-spec after the mesmer with an inbuilt (Upkeep F skill) way to create a nightmare (clone) based on your current legend that harass your target and/or support your allies. It's skills could be aspects (there is 16 of them to chose from in Kanaxai's instance so there is enough material for ANet to make something) working similarly to Herald's facet but as debuff instead of buff (or each of these skills creating a nightmare with an upkeep). Weapon being Off-hand axe because "kanaxai's flavor".

    If I let my fantasy lead me I'd even say that the dreamy aspect of EoD teaser support my claim ;)

    What I don't understand is why people are always saying that the next legend won't be a human again as if there would be an overrepresentation of humans in revenants legends.

    There is just 1 human legend for revenant, Shiro. All the other legends are not human.

    • Ventari -> Centaur
    • Mallyx -> Demon
    • Jalis -> Dwarf
    • Glint -> Dragon
    • Kalla -> Charr

    So I think a human legend is still very well possible.

    Ventari would also be Sylvari. They haven't been around long enough for one of their own to really become legendary enough. No Treesus please.

    There are not Asuran legends nor are there any Norn legends. The new Rev espec should be one of those.

    There is an exception when it comes to Sylvari.
    I don't think you can deny that Scarlet had a major impact on the world and should be up there in the legendary tier, even if these have been fairly recent events.

    Still disagree that Norn or Asura should be the legend and also disagree with a Sylvari one (aka Scarlet) because of the point I mentioned: I think it would be a waste to not give us a Canthan legend for that expansion.

    I mean, it is a waste to not have Scarlet become a legendary stance. Not to mention she'd be perfect for those that want more range options with rev, but I do understand that there are those that also want more melee options. (Seriously, Rev needs a larger weapon selection.) For melee, I think Talon would be a good choice if Anet expands their lore.

    Scarlet definitely is one of the big players in the lore, hence why I mentioned her.
    But I just mentioned Scarlet for the sake of acknowledging her. I think she is not a good choice for the next elite spec (or any coming future elite spec, really).

    There are some points which speak against Scarlet.
    She wouldn't enhance the lore alot, unlike other legends. We discovered alot about Scarlet's past already when we dealt with her.
    Also her thematic: Scarlet basically has been a holosmith herself. Holosmith even referrences one of her iconic abilities in their ultimates, the prime light beam.
    In general, holograms and hard light have been defining for her as a character. Sure, there have been mechanical creatures created by her. But Scarlet herself mostly attacked with lasers and such.

    Which makes her too close thematically to holosmith to happen in my opinion.
    I love Scarlet, was one of my favourite characters in this game and she really is worthy of the title of a legend.
    But looking at what it would mean for an elite spec, I think it is better not to use her as a revenant elite spec.

    Anything Scarlet would work better as an engineer specialization anyway.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 23, 2021

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    More of my candidates:

    • Nornbear/Svanir for obvious reasons (GS, MH Axe or MH Dagger)
    • Balthazar (may be too close to "human", and we already have Shiro)
    • Menzies as "Legendary Nightmare" (same problem as Balthazar, may be too closely tied to human)
    • Varesh (Margonite, very unlikely as she's too close to human and Mallyx/demon)
    • Torivos (dual axes, Legendary Envoy, could be a problem since he used to be human in the past)

    Out of them Svanir seems to be the most likely. Fits the evil role for balance, is part of a race that isn't represented in the revenants current lineup (Norn) and would fit into a selfish dps role (Glint and Kalla have been more on the supportive side IMO).

    The norn legend, if we ever get one, would be Asgeir Dragonrender. Svanir was just a random dude who got corrupted and had no power or relevance of his own. His only merit is being the first norn to get corrupted by Jormag.

    Legends should represent characters who had a great impact on history, plus a rich background that lets them channel unique powers not available otherwise. Also, they don't have to be GW1 characters, there's centuries of history, before and after GW1, be more original guys.

    Also, I don't think characters who were overpowered in lore work well, since they don't provide a realistic and enjoyable interaction. Shiro, Kalla, Ventari... you can have normal conversations with them. Mallyx and Glint are just terrible, they have nothing interesting to say since they're supposed to be god-tier creatures who know all the secrets of the universe.

    Asgeir Dragonrender's only merit was fleeing from Jormag after being scared off due to Jormag threatening him. We know that and the Mists know, too. There's no unique power there, unless you want a "Legendary Fugitive" or "Legendary Liar". The Mists don't care what the Norn say about Asgeir, as the Mists know the truth about his actions. What is or what isn't noteworthy to be a Legend is decided on what leaves an imprint in the Mists.

    In comparison to that, Svanir is responsible for the creation of a whole cult of followers. The Sons of Svanir that could only exists due to the role Svanir played, warped the whole society of the Norn. His influence can easily be compared to the influence the Tablet of Ventari had over the Sylvari.

    We also already know that Svanir was relevant enough to leave imprints in the Mists, as one of his echoes is part of the Forest of Niflhel.
    So this "random dude" has already been more relevant to the Mists than Asgeir.

    Of course Legends don't have to be from GW1. They also don't have to be dead. They just need to have left an imprint in the Mists.
    It's still easier to guess what left an imprint in the Mists if we have seen the actions first hand. I know what Svanir did and how he influenced the generations of Norn that came after him. Just like how (Brandor and) Kalla's actions influenced the following generations of Charr. But we can't be sure that everything that has been told by unreliable narrators, which most NPC's and mortal characters fall into, is true. Asgeir is the perfect example for this.

    Edit: Also, wouldn't Asgeir being powered up by the Spirits of the Wild count as overpowered in lore? He did oneshot Jormag's champion with their power, after all. That wouldn't make the Legend about him, though, but about the Spirits of the Wild (similiar situation to Ventari and the Tablet). So since Mallyx and Glint are unfit to be Legends in your opinion, Asgeir and the SotW would be, too.

    *...the biggest challenge in creating more is the small audience they attract.* - Andrew Gray, February 3, 2020

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    Both Hanasha Coralfin and Magadore are pretty interesting, but might be too obscure since we barely know anything about them. I think they would work better as villains in Cantha.

    Was Kalla Skorchrazor a widely know character in GW's lore? What's important is the impact the character have on it's whole race.

    In this regard Hanasha Coralfin have just as much, if not more, impact than kalla on it's kins. She literally change the whole moral code of the Nagas and revive it's almost extincted population. It's the perfect candidate for a revive skill (something that revenant have yet to have), I can clearly imagine a thematic between healing (revival), stunbreaking (recovery from the jade wind) and corruption (changing moral code) complementing respectively Ventari, Jalis and Mallyx.

    Sure it wouldn't be the widely asked for "Greatsword DPS legend" but, honestly, I put such character far above Talon Silverwind for legendhood.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 24, 2021

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    More of my candidates:

    • Nornbear/Svanir for obvious reasons (GS, MH Axe or MH Dagger)
    • Balthazar (may be too close to "human", and we already have Shiro)
    • Menzies as "Legendary Nightmare" (same problem as Balthazar, may be too closely tied to human)
    • Varesh (Margonite, very unlikely as she's too close to human and Mallyx/demon)
    • Torivos (dual axes, Legendary Envoy, could be a problem since he used to be human in the past)

    Out of them Svanir seems to be the most likely. Fits the evil role for balance, is part of a race that isn't represented in the revenants current lineup (Norn) and would fit into a selfish dps role (Glint and Kalla have been more on the supportive side IMO).

    The norn legend, if we ever get one, would be Asgeir Dragonrender. Svanir was just a random dude who got corrupted and had no power or relevance of his own. His only merit is being the first norn to get corrupted by Jormag.

    Legends should represent characters who had a great impact on history, plus a rich background that lets them channel unique powers not available otherwise. Also, they don't have to be GW1 characters, there's centuries of history, before and after GW1, be more original guys.

    Also, I don't think characters who were overpowered in lore work well, since they don't provide a realistic and enjoyable interaction. Shiro, Kalla, Ventari... you can have normal conversations with them. Mallyx and Glint are just terrible, they have nothing interesting to say since they're supposed to be god-tier creatures who know all the secrets of the universe.

    Asgeir Dragonrender's only merit was fleeing from Jormag after being scared off due to Jormag threatening him. We know that and the Mists know, too. There's no unique power there, unless you want a "Legendary Fugitive" or "Legendary Liar". The Mists don't care what the Norn say about Asgeir, as the Mists know the truth about his actions. What is or what isn't noteworthy to be a Legend is decided on what leaves an imprint in the Mists.

    In comparison to that, Svanir is responsible for the creation of a whole cult of followers. The Sons of Svanir that could only exists due to the role Svanir played, warped the whole society of the Norn. His influence can easily be compared to the influence the Tablet of Ventari had over the Sylvari.

    We also already know that Svanir was relevant enough to leave imprints in the Mists, as one of his echoes is part of the Forest of Niflhel.
    So this "random dude" has already been more relevant to the Mists than Asgeir.

    Of course Legends don't have to be from GW1. They also don't have to be dead. They just need to have left an imprint in the Mists.
    It's still easier to guess what left an imprint in the Mists if we have seen the actions first hand. I know what Svanir did and how he influenced the generations of Norn that came after him. Just like how (Brandor and) Kalla's actions influenced the following generations of Charr. But we can't be sure that everything that has been told by unreliable narrators, which most NPC's and mortal characters fall into, is true. Asgeir is the perfect example for this.

    Edit: Also, wouldn't Asgeir being powered up by the Spirits of the Wild count as overpowered in lore? He did oneshot Jormag's champion with their power, after all. That wouldn't make the Legend about him, though, but about the Spirits of the Wild (similiar situation to Ventari and the Tablet). So since Mallyx and Glint are unfit to be Legends in your opinion, Asgeir and the SotW would be, too.

    Asgeir Dragonrender is the most famous norn hero, and also the founder of Hoelbrak. He literally saved the norn race from extinction; or cursed them into servitude, recent revelations considered (what really happened is not clear enough yet). Asgeir was also a mortal, who used a jotun scroll and the power of the Spirits of the Wild; he wasn't overpowered, since those weren't his powers to begin with. He's also the only known mortal to have injured Jormag.

    In the other hand, the only thing Svanir did was get corrupted, then killed. He did nothing useful or worthwhile in life. Svanir didn't create the cult either, he had nothing to do with the Sons of Svanir, those guys decided to pay a homage to him for some reason, long after he got killed.

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    Both Hanasha Coralfin and Magadore are pretty interesting, but might be too obscure since we barely know anything about them. I think they would work better as villains in Cantha.

    Was Kalla Skorchrazor a widely know character in GW's lore? What's important is the impact the character have on it's whole race.

    In this regard Hanasha Coralfin have just as much, if not more, impact than kalla on it's kins. She literally change the whole moral code of the Nagas and revive it's almost extincted population. It's the perfect candidate for a revive skill (something that revenant have yet to have), I can clearly imagine a thematic between healing (revival), stunbreaking (recovery from the jade wind) and corruption (changing moral code) complementing respectively Ventari, Jalis and Mallyx.

    Sure it wouldn't be the widely asked for "Greatsword DPS legend" but, honestly, I put such character far above Talon Silverwind for legendhood.

    Kalla is an integral part of GW2 lore, is regarded as pretty much the most legendary charr hero, and is mentioned multiple times across the story and the open world. There's even a warband named after her, made up by Kalla fangirls.

    The only other charr who can come any close to her is Bonfaaz Burntfur, the shaman general who summoned the Searing of Ascalon.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2021

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    More of my candidates:

    • Nornbear/Svanir for obvious reasons (GS, MH Axe or MH Dagger)
    • Balthazar (may be too close to "human", and we already have Shiro)
    • Menzies as "Legendary Nightmare" (same problem as Balthazar, may be too closely tied to human)
    • Varesh (Margonite, very unlikely as she's too close to human and Mallyx/demon)
    • Torivos (dual axes, Legendary Envoy, could be a problem since he used to be human in the past)

    Out of them Svanir seems to be the most likely. Fits the evil role for balance, is part of a race that isn't represented in the revenants current lineup (Norn) and would fit into a selfish dps role (Glint and Kalla have been more on the supportive side IMO).

    The norn legend, if we ever get one, would be Asgeir Dragonrender. Svanir was just a random dude who got corrupted and had no power or relevance of his own. His only merit is being the first norn to get corrupted by Jormag.

    Legends should represent characters who had a great impact on history, plus a rich background that lets them channel unique powers not available otherwise. Also, they don't have to be GW1 characters, there's centuries of history, before and after GW1, be more original guys.

    Also, I don't think characters who were overpowered in lore work well, since they don't provide a realistic and enjoyable interaction. Shiro, Kalla, Ventari... you can have normal conversations with them. Mallyx and Glint are just terrible, they have nothing interesting to say since they're supposed to be god-tier creatures who know all the secrets of the universe.

    Asgeir Dragonrender's only merit was fleeing from Jormag after being scared off due to Jormag threatening him. We know that and the Mists know, too. There's no unique power there, unless you want a "Legendary Fugitive" or "Legendary Liar". The Mists don't care what the Norn say about Asgeir, as the Mists know the truth about his actions. What is or what isn't noteworthy to be a Legend is decided on what leaves an imprint in the Mists.

    In comparison to that, Svanir is responsible for the creation of a whole cult of followers. The Sons of Svanir that could only exists due to the role Svanir played, warped the whole society of the Norn. His influence can easily be compared to the influence the Tablet of Ventari had over the Sylvari.

    We also already know that Svanir was relevant enough to leave imprints in the Mists, as one of his echoes is part of the Forest of Niflhel.
    So this "random dude" has already been more relevant to the Mists than Asgeir.

    Of course Legends don't have to be from GW1. They also don't have to be dead. They just need to have left an imprint in the Mists.
    It's still easier to guess what left an imprint in the Mists if we have seen the actions first hand. I know what Svanir did and how he influenced the generations of Norn that came after him. Just like how (Brandor and) Kalla's actions influenced the following generations of Charr. But we can't be sure that everything that has been told by unreliable narrators, which most NPC's and mortal characters fall into, is true. Asgeir is the perfect example for this.

    Edit: Also, wouldn't Asgeir being powered up by the Spirits of the Wild count as overpowered in lore? He did oneshot Jormag's champion with their power, after all. That wouldn't make the Legend about him, though, but about the Spirits of the Wild (similiar situation to Ventari and the Tablet). So since Mallyx and Glint are unfit to be Legends in your opinion, Asgeir and the SotW would be, too.

    Asgeir Dragonrender is the most famous norn hero, and also the founder of Hoelbrak. He literally saved the norn race from extinction; or cursed them into servitude, recent revelations considered (what really happened is not clear enough yet). Asgeir was also a mortal, who used a jotun scroll and the power of the Spirits of the Wild; he wasn't overpowered, since those weren't his powers to begin with. He's also the only known mortal to have injured Jormag.

    In the other hand, the only thing Svanir did was get corrupted, then killed. He did nothing useful or worthwhile in life. Svanir didn't create the cult either, he had nothing to do with the Sons of Svanir, those guys decided to pay a homage to him for some reason, long after he got killed.

    Exactly, Asgeir is a Norn hero, not a Mist legend. Just a legend in Norn tales, but not reality. He made up a legendary lie to make the Norn move south. He has no unique power and was only able to injure Jormag with the help of the Spirits of the Wild. The only legendary part about his tale is the power of the Spirits of the Wild. He isn‘t fit to be a legend, unless the legend is about his legendary lie to the norn, or his legendary cowardness in front of Jormag.

    Ventari and the Tablet of Ventari only gained relevance as part of guiding a new race, long after Ventari‘s death. The same way Svanir, who we already know has echoes in the Mists, is responsible for the Sons of Svanir. It doesn‘t actually matter what your opinion about Svanir is here, since it is already a fact that the Mists made copies of Svanir and therefore gained Legend status in the Mists. We see one in the Forest of Niflhel. That echo is enough for a revenant to be able to learn to channel him. So for someone that „did nothing useful or worthwhile in life“ he‘s already more legendary than Asgeir by Mist standards.

    *...the biggest challenge in creating more is the small audience they attract.* - Andrew Gray, February 3, 2020

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2021

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    More of my candidates:

    • Nornbear/Svanir for obvious reasons (GS, MH Axe or MH Dagger)
    • Balthazar (may be too close to "human", and we already have Shiro)
    • Menzies as "Legendary Nightmare" (same problem as Balthazar, may be too closely tied to human)
    • Varesh (Margonite, very unlikely as she's too close to human and Mallyx/demon)
    • Torivos (dual axes, Legendary Envoy, could be a problem since he used to be human in the past)

    Out of them Svanir seems to be the most likely. Fits the evil role for balance, is part of a race that isn't represented in the revenants current lineup (Norn) and would fit into a selfish dps role (Glint and Kalla have been more on the supportive side IMO).

    The norn legend, if we ever get one, would be Asgeir Dragonrender. Svanir was just a random dude who got corrupted and had no power or relevance of his own. His only merit is being the first norn to get corrupted by Jormag.

    Legends should represent characters who had a great impact on history, plus a rich background that lets them channel unique powers not available otherwise. Also, they don't have to be GW1 characters, there's centuries of history, before and after GW1, be more original guys.

    Also, I don't think characters who were overpowered in lore work well, since they don't provide a realistic and enjoyable interaction. Shiro, Kalla, Ventari... you can have normal conversations with them. Mallyx and Glint are just terrible, they have nothing interesting to say since they're supposed to be god-tier creatures who know all the secrets of the universe.

    Asgeir Dragonrender's only merit was fleeing from Jormag after being scared off due to Jormag threatening him. We know that and the Mists know, too. There's no unique power there, unless you want a "Legendary Fugitive" or "Legendary Liar". The Mists don't care what the Norn say about Asgeir, as the Mists know the truth about his actions. What is or what isn't noteworthy to be a Legend is decided on what leaves an imprint in the Mists.

    In comparison to that, Svanir is responsible for the creation of a whole cult of followers. The Sons of Svanir that could only exists due to the role Svanir played, warped the whole society of the Norn. His influence can easily be compared to the influence the Tablet of Ventari had over the Sylvari.

    We also already know that Svanir was relevant enough to leave imprints in the Mists, as one of his echoes is part of the Forest of Niflhel.
    So this "random dude" has already been more relevant to the Mists than Asgeir.

    Of course Legends don't have to be from GW1. They also don't have to be dead. They just need to have left an imprint in the Mists.
    It's still easier to guess what left an imprint in the Mists if we have seen the actions first hand. I know what Svanir did and how he influenced the generations of Norn that came after him. Just like how (Brandor and) Kalla's actions influenced the following generations of Charr. But we can't be sure that everything that has been told by unreliable narrators, which most NPC's and mortal characters fall into, is true. Asgeir is the perfect example for this.

    Edit: Also, wouldn't Asgeir being powered up by the Spirits of the Wild count as overpowered in lore? He did oneshot Jormag's champion with their power, after all. That wouldn't make the Legend about him, though, but about the Spirits of the Wild (similiar situation to Ventari and the Tablet). So since Mallyx and Glint are unfit to be Legends in your opinion, Asgeir and the SotW would be, too.

    Asgeir Dragonrender is the most famous norn hero, and also the founder of Hoelbrak. He literally saved the norn race from extinction; or cursed them into servitude, recent revelations considered (what really happened is not clear enough yet). Asgeir was also a mortal, who used a jotun scroll and the power of the Spirits of the Wild; he wasn't overpowered, since those weren't his powers to begin with. He's also the only known mortal to have injured Jormag.

    In the other hand, the only thing Svanir did was get corrupted, then killed. He did nothing useful or worthwhile in life. Svanir didn't create the cult either, he had nothing to do with the Sons of Svanir, those guys decided to pay a homage to him for some reason, long after he got killed.

    Exactly, Asgeir is a Norn hero, not a Mist legend. Just a legend in Norn tales, but not reality. He made up a legendary lie to make the Norn move south. He has no unique power and was only able to injure Jormag with the help of the Spirits of the Wild. The only legendary part about his tale is the power of the Spirits of the Wild. He isn‘t fit to be a legend, unless the legend is about his legendary lie to the norn, or his legendary cowardness in front of Jormag.

    Ventari and the Tablet of Ventari only gained relevance as part of guiding a new race, long after Ventari‘s death. The same way Svanir, who we already know has echoes in the Mists, is responsible for the Sons of Svanir. It doesn‘t actually matter what your opinion about Svanir is here, since it is already a fact that the Mists made copies of Svanir and therefore gained Legend status in the Mists. We see one in the Forest of Niflhel. That echo is enough for a revenant to be able to learn to channel him. So for someone that „did nothing useful or worthwhile in life“ he‘s already more legendary than Asgeir by Mist standards.

    Ventari's teachings have forged an entire race, it's pretty much like Jesus for the sylvari. It works well as a semi-religious deity because he's not an actual god. Actual deities like Balthazar or Owl wouldn't work well as characters you interact with because they lack the "mortal" personality. Ventari does have problems though, since he has no special powers of any kind; fortunately, he has a magical artifact, his tablet, and the legend can focus on that instead. Kalla has a similar problem, but she summons warband members to compensate.

    Svanir didn't write anything. Svanir didn't leave anything behind. He's just a rabid dunce, who only talks once in GW1. He got unceremoniously killed, and was never a real threat to anyone at all. Also, he's not regarded as a hero, but a martyr.

    If you want a legend based on an icebrood character, there's dozens of far more interesting options out there. For example, the Dragonspawn, one of Jormag's champions who got killed shortly before the game's beginning. Unlike Svanir, he was a real threat who haunted the Shiverpeaks for centuries, killing or corrupting thousands of norn. I don't think dragon minions would be good legends, but still.

    Also, there's no game indication to define what's a "Mist Legend" or not. I don't think that aspect was ever relevant at all.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 25, 2021

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    More of my candidates:

    • Nornbear/Svanir for obvious reasons (GS, MH Axe or MH Dagger)
    • Balthazar (may be too close to "human", and we already have Shiro)
    • Menzies as "Legendary Nightmare" (same problem as Balthazar, may be too closely tied to human)
    • Varesh (Margonite, very unlikely as she's too close to human and Mallyx/demon)
    • Torivos (dual axes, Legendary Envoy, could be a problem since he used to be human in the past)

    Out of them Svanir seems to be the most likely. Fits the evil role for balance, is part of a race that isn't represented in the revenants current lineup (Norn) and would fit into a selfish dps role (Glint and Kalla have been more on the supportive side IMO).

    The norn legend, if we ever get one, would be Asgeir Dragonrender. Svanir was just a random dude who got corrupted and had no power or relevance of his own. His only merit is being the first norn to get corrupted by Jormag.

    Legends should represent characters who had a great impact on history, plus a rich background that lets them channel unique powers not available otherwise. Also, they don't have to be GW1 characters, there's centuries of history, before and after GW1, be more original guys.

    Also, I don't think characters who were overpowered in lore work well, since they don't provide a realistic and enjoyable interaction. Shiro, Kalla, Ventari... you can have normal conversations with them. Mallyx and Glint are just terrible, they have nothing interesting to say since they're supposed to be god-tier creatures who know all the secrets of the universe.

    Asgeir Dragonrender's only merit was fleeing from Jormag after being scared off due to Jormag threatening him. We know that and the Mists know, too. There's no unique power there, unless you want a "Legendary Fugitive" or "Legendary Liar". The Mists don't care what the Norn say about Asgeir, as the Mists know the truth about his actions. What is or what isn't noteworthy to be a Legend is decided on what leaves an imprint in the Mists.

    In comparison to that, Svanir is responsible for the creation of a whole cult of followers. The Sons of Svanir that could only exists due to the role Svanir played, warped the whole society of the Norn. His influence can easily be compared to the influence the Tablet of Ventari had over the Sylvari.

    We also already know that Svanir was relevant enough to leave imprints in the Mists, as one of his echoes is part of the Forest of Niflhel.
    So this "random dude" has already been more relevant to the Mists than Asgeir.

    Of course Legends don't have to be from GW1. They also don't have to be dead. They just need to have left an imprint in the Mists.
    It's still easier to guess what left an imprint in the Mists if we have seen the actions first hand. I know what Svanir did and how he influenced the generations of Norn that came after him. Just like how (Brandor and) Kalla's actions influenced the following generations of Charr. But we can't be sure that everything that has been told by unreliable narrators, which most NPC's and mortal characters fall into, is true. Asgeir is the perfect example for this.

    Edit: Also, wouldn't Asgeir being powered up by the Spirits of the Wild count as overpowered in lore? He did oneshot Jormag's champion with their power, after all. That wouldn't make the Legend about him, though, but about the Spirits of the Wild (similiar situation to Ventari and the Tablet). So since Mallyx and Glint are unfit to be Legends in your opinion, Asgeir and the SotW would be, too.

    Asgeir Dragonrender is the most famous norn hero, and also the founder of Hoelbrak. He literally saved the norn race from extinction; or cursed them into servitude, recent revelations considered (what really happened is not clear enough yet). Asgeir was also a mortal, who used a jotun scroll and the power of the Spirits of the Wild; he wasn't overpowered, since those weren't his powers to begin with. He's also the only known mortal to have injured Jormag.

    In the other hand, the only thing Svanir did was get corrupted, then killed. He did nothing useful or worthwhile in life. Svanir didn't create the cult either, he had nothing to do with the Sons of Svanir, those guys decided to pay a homage to him for some reason, long after he got killed.

    Exactly, Asgeir is a Norn hero, not a Mist legend. Just a legend in Norn tales, but not reality. He made up a legendary lie to make the Norn move south. He has no unique power and was only able to injure Jormag with the help of the Spirits of the Wild. The only legendary part about his tale is the power of the Spirits of the Wild. He isn‘t fit to be a legend, unless the legend is about his legendary lie to the norn, or his legendary cowardness in front of Jormag.

    Ventari and the Tablet of Ventari only gained relevance as part of guiding a new race, long after Ventari‘s death. The same way Svanir, who we already know has echoes in the Mists, is responsible for the Sons of Svanir. It doesn‘t actually matter what your opinion about Svanir is here, since it is already a fact that the Mists made copies of Svanir and therefore gained Legend status in the Mists. We see one in the Forest of Niflhel. That echo is enough for a revenant to be able to learn to channel him. So for someone that „did nothing useful or worthwhile in life“ he‘s already more legendary than Asgeir by Mist standards.

    Ventari's teachings have forged an entire race, it's pretty much like Jesus for the sylvari. It works well as a semi-religious deity because he's not an actual god. Actual deities like Balthazar or Owl wouldn't work well as characters you interact with because they lack the "mortal" personality. Ventari does have problems though, since he has no special powers of any kind; fortunately, he has a magical artifact, his tablet, and the legend can focus on that instead. Kalla has a similar problem, but she summons warband members to compensate.

    Svanir didn't write anything. Svanir didn't leave anything behind. He's just a rabid dunce, who only talks once in GW1. He got unceremoniously killed, and was never a real threat to anyone at all. Also, he's not regarded as a hero, but a martyr.

    If you want a legend based on an icebrood character, there's dozens of far more interesting options out there. For example, the Dragonspawn, one of Jormag's champions who got killed shortly before the game's beginning. Unlike Svanir, he was a real threat who haunted the Shiverpeaks for centuries, killing or corrupting thousands of norn. I don't think dragon minions would be good legends, but still.

    Also, there's no game indication to define what's a "Mist Legend" or not. I don't think that aspect was ever relevant at all.

    The Mists remember what came before, and echoes of those who left an especially powerful imprint on the world of Tyria can still be found there. A revenant calls upon these legendary historical figures, bringing them back into action to enhance the revenant’s own abilities and power.
    https://guildwars2.com/en/news/hidden-arcana-role-playing-the-revenant/

    So yes, being remembered by the Mists is an aspect of who can and can‘t be a legend. That‘s what channeling a legend means, interacting with the echoes left in the Mists.

    Svanir left behind a whole cult. A cult that changed Norn society at its core. And he already left an imprint in the Mists that we already know of.
    The Mists already deem him to be notable enough, that they have created at least one echo, the one we see in the Forests of Nifhlel.
    It‘s not about what I want to be a legend, but about who are likely candidates. And already having echoes in the Mists makes him a strong candidate, even if you don‘t like it.

    The Dragonspawn didn‘t affect the world of Tyria in any major way, aside from killing a multitude of Norn. He wasn‘t responsible for any big change. I doubt he‘d be a likely candidate. IMO he‘s also less interesting than Asgeir, a „Legendary Liar“ would be more interesting than one of Jormag‘s proxies.

    *...the biggest challenge in creating more is the small audience they attract.* - Andrew Gray, February 3, 2020

  • @Kodama.6453 said:

    @ZarexWolf.5637 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

    @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    To be honest, I don't think togo had enough of an impact to become a legend. As a GW1 player I'd be very tempted to but that's all.

    From my point of view, the next revenant e-spec's legend won't be another human legend. I think a prime candidate for an e-spec would be "Nightmare" with Kanaxai as a legendary Nightmare (which is listed both as a demon and a nightmare). I'd model the e-spec after the mesmer with an inbuilt (Upkeep F skill) way to create a nightmare (clone) based on your current legend that harass your target and/or support your allies. It's skills could be aspects (there is 16 of them to chose from in Kanaxai's instance so there is enough material for ANet to make something) working similarly to Herald's facet but as debuff instead of buff (or each of these skills creating a nightmare with an upkeep). Weapon being Off-hand axe because "kanaxai's flavor".

    If I let my fantasy lead me I'd even say that the dreamy aspect of EoD teaser support my claim ;)

    What I don't understand is why people are always saying that the next legend won't be a human again as if there would be an overrepresentation of humans in revenants legends.

    There is just 1 human legend for revenant, Shiro. All the other legends are not human.

    • Ventari -> Centaur
    • Mallyx -> Demon
    • Jalis -> Dwarf
    • Glint -> Dragon
    • Kalla -> Charr

    So I think a human legend is still very well possible.

    Ventari would also be Sylvari. They haven't been around long enough for one of their own to really become legendary enough. No Treesus please.

    There are not Asuran legends nor are there any Norn legends. The new Rev espec should be one of those.

    There is an exception when it comes to Sylvari.
    I don't think you can deny that Scarlet had a major impact on the world and should be up there in the legendary tier, even if these have been fairly recent events.

    Still disagree that Norn or Asura should be the legend and also disagree with a Sylvari one (aka Scarlet) because of the point I mentioned: I think it would be a waste to not give us a Canthan legend for that expansion.

    I mean, it is a waste to not have Scarlet become a legendary stance. Not to mention she'd be perfect for those that want more range options with rev, but I do understand that there are those that also want more melee options. (Seriously, Rev needs a larger weapon selection.) For melee, I think Talon would be a good choice if Anet expands their lore.

    Scarlet definitely is one of the big players in the lore, hence why I mentioned her.
    But I just mentioned Scarlet for the sake of acknowledging her. I think she is not a good choice for the next elite spec (or any coming future elite spec, really).

    There are some points which speak against Scarlet.
    She wouldn't enhance the lore alot, unlike other legends. We discovered alot about Scarlet's past already when we dealt with her.
    Also her thematic: Scarlet basically has been a holosmith herself. Holosmith even referrences one of her iconic abilities in their ultimates, the prime light beam.
    In general, holograms and hard light have been defining for her as a character. Sure, there have been mechanical creatures created by her. But Scarlet herself mostly attacked with lasers and such.

    Which makes her too close thematically to holosmith to happen in my opinion.
    I love Scarlet, was one of my favourite characters in this game and she really is worthy of the title of a legend.
    But looking at what it would mean for an elite spec, I think it is better not to use her as a revenant elite spec.

    Yeah, that makes sense and I know we already got a Charr for one stance, but I'm curious to see if we'll get another like Bonfaaz Burntfur or Olma. We do know little about her and the Olmakhan compared to others, but I'm sure there are those that will disagree.

    "Choose your friends wisely, and also choose friends that you can trust." - Elyn Saks

  • Sorry if this counts as a necro-post, but I'm curious if it's possible that a god could become a legendary stance for Revenant. It would make for an interesting elite. Just, not sure if it'd be possible for a god, or well, a fallen god like Dhuum could become a stance or not.

    "Choose your friends wisely, and also choose friends that you can trust." - Elyn Saks

  • MrForz.1953MrForz.1953 Member ✭✭✭
    edited March 6, 2021

    @Kharrus.6015 said:
    Much of the focus for these elite spec ideas is for giving them specific niches to fill, or giving them roles for their class that aren't redundant.

    Engineer - Golemancer (Staff)
    New skill type: Minion

    Now where's my collection of facepalm images...

    Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Pirate - Jade Quarry

  • Raarsi.6798Raarsi.6798 Member ✭✭

    @Kodama.6453 said:
    Still disagree that Norn or Asura should be the legend and also disagree with a Sylvari one (aka Scarlet) because of the point I mentioned: I think it would be a waste to not give us a Canthan legend for that expansion.

    Isn't Shiro already a Canthan legend? Devastated the region by unleashing the Jade Wind or something along those lines?

    Also more a fan of the idea of Golemancer as a revenant e-spec with Snaff or some other long-dead famous Asura as the main spirit for it, but that's just me.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raarsi.6798 said:
    Isn't Shiro already a Canthan legend? Devastated the region by unleashing the Jade Wind or something along those lines?

    Also more a fan of the idea of Golemancer as a revenant e-spec with Snaff or some other long-dead famous Asura as the main spirit for it, but that's just me.

    I think a Norn flavour e-spec can be done without involving norn at all.

    Norn's racial skills are all about transforming into one of their "patron" and summoning wildlife. You just need a legend whose skills are all about summoning wildlife and a F2 that transform the revenant into it's current legend (might be heavy on skill developpement but if ANet can create skill for the elementalist's 4 attunment they probably can create a skillset for each core legend and the e-spec specific legend).

    NB.: I'm not against the idea of a golemancer but if we look objectively the asuran racial skillset isn't far from Mallyx's skillset (if we exclude the summons). I'm sure Asuran that eat after midnight transform into demons and that they reproduce by being sprayed with water.

  • Engineer needs a Dual Axe Elite Spec. Any Engineer Elite Spec should be dual wield because of poor Core offhand weapon choices. I always wanted to be a Lumberjack! <3

  • Kodama.6453Kodama.6453 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Random Wax Orc.7695 said:
    Engineer needs a Dual Axe Elite Spec. Any Engineer Elite Spec should be dual wield because of poor Core offhand weapon choices. I always wanted to be a Lumberjack! <3

    I would like to see engineer using axes with acid covered blades.
    Let them wield the axe as a symbol of how their concoctions and alchemical weapons can rend the flesh from the bones of their enemies.

  • @Kodama.6453 said:

    @Random Wax Orc.7695 said:
    Engineer needs a Dual Axe Elite Spec. Any Engineer Elite Spec should be dual wield because of poor Core offhand weapon choices. I always wanted to be a Lumberjack! <3

    I would like to see engineer using axes with acid covered blades.
    Let them wield the axe as a symbol of how their concoctions and alchemical weapons can rend the flesh from the bones of their enemies.

    yep totally

  • Also I think a tengu would make a great revenant elite spec for EoD