Revert SB5 ini costs for core thief

I can somehow buy why DD or even DE could somehow "deserve" mobility shave (then again in the grand scheme of things it is questionable but it is topic for other discussion) HOWEVER there is absolutely no excuse for core thief mobility/resources to be hurt this badly. So my suggestion is, as long as elite spec is not equipped the Infiltrator's Arrow costs are reduced in pvp.

@"Cynz.9437" said:I can somehow buy why DD or even DE could somehow "deserve" mobility shave (then again in the grand scheme of things it is questionable but it is topic for other discussion) HOWEVER there is absolutely no excuse for core thief mobility/resources to be hurt this badly. So my suggestion is, as long as elite spec is not equipped the Infiltrator's Arrow costs are reduced in pvp.

What is the big difference between core and dd, that core should need buff mobility?

@Filip.7463 said:

@"Cynz.9437" said:I can somehow buy why DD or even DE could somehow "deserve" mobility shave (then again in the grand scheme of things it is questionable but it is topic for other discussion) HOWEVER there is absolutely no excuse for core thief mobility/resources to be hurt this badly. So my suggestion is, as long as elite spec is

not

equipped the Infiltrator's Arrow costs are reduced in pvp.

Core doesnt have 3 dodges, or perma swiftness, and overall always did less than DD in every aspect, id like core to keep the initiative from before the nerf if condi thief was slightly changed since its still quite unhealthy.

Was such a stupid, lazy way to nerf short bow which is totally in line with the devs of this game so no they will not revert change.

You can also revert signet of agility's nerf as far as I'm concerned but either the third dodge or unhindered combatant need the chronomancer treatment; nuked from orbit and never to return.

Please, nerf teeef. Thank you!

@ollbirtan.2915 said:Please, nerf teeef. Thank you!

This unironically, take stealth next.

@"Cynz.9437" said:I can somehow buy why DD or even DE could somehow "deserve" mobility shave (then again in the grand scheme of things it is questionable but it is topic for other discussion) HOWEVER there is absolutely no excuse for core thief mobility/resources to be hurt this badly. So my suggestion is, as long as elite spec is not equipped the Infiltrator's Arrow costs are reduced in pvp.

This is right but I want to be nerfed so hard playing the class actively sandbags my team.

I actually thought about splitting skills depending on the elite spec today.A LOT of the changes in the past had huge negative side effects on other builds, mainly core variants. Would be nice if Anet could apply those changes to only when the targeted elite spec is active.. I mean they already do that with the profession skills and even dodge mechanics. Why not split some numbers?I mean they avoided to split between game modes for a LOOOOOOONG time (too long) because they didn't want that classes/skills behave differently but I mean.. First of all Anet already crossed that line imho long ago (just look at Mirage dodge) and secondly: Swapping to a different elite spec is already a big shift for the playstyle, why not refine each one individually? Would be nice if the especs would make even more difference than just 1 new set of utilities (you probably only use 1 of anyway), a different trait line (passive stuff for the most part) and other class mechanics (the most influencial regarding play stlye).

Anet made it clear when they caved into the cries to nerf nades. If it's overperforming on the elite spec, it's overperforming on all specs. shrug

The problem with daredevil is, that dash is a ridiculously strong gm trait. It should have been nerfed in the first place years ago. A good start would either have been a range decrease from 450 to 300 or if it in this case would be too similar to a normal dodge, then it should not remove soft cc instead and just be a dodge with an increased range - but not increased range AND soft cc removal.

Regarding core: in theory (!) a core traitline should be as strong as an elite traitline. The latter should just give us an alternative playstyle. So nerfs to core skills should have an equal impact to core and elite specs. This can actually work, if you don't fail at game design (e.g. dash or mirage cloak).

ANet is pretty inconsistent. If mirage cloak justifies losing a dodge, then dash should too. If anet followed their own nerf logic and balanced overperforming dodges with a reduced number of dodges, then dash daredevils should actually have one dodge, but kept their 1200 range steal and their 6 ini cost on shortbow and a few other things like more damage on autoattacks.

@Kachros.4751 said:

@Filip.7463 said:

@"Cynz.9437" said:I can somehow buy why DD or even DE could somehow "deserve" mobility shave (then again in the grand scheme of things it is questionable but it is topic for other discussion) HOWEVER there is absolutely no excuse for core thief mobility/resources to be hurt this badly. So my suggestion is, as long as elite spec is

not

equipped the Infiltrator's Arrow costs are reduced in pvp.

Why do u need perma swiftness while u have perma teleport?

@KrHome.1920 said:The problem with daredevil is, that dash is a ridiculously strong gm trait. It should have been nerfed in the first place years ago. A good start would either have been a range decrease from 450 to 300 or if it in this case would be too similar to a normal dodge, then it should not remove soft cc instead and just be a dodge with an increased range - but not increased range AND soft cc removal.

Regarding core: in theory (!) a core traitline should be as strong as an elite traitline. The latter should just give us an alternative playstyle. So nerfs to core skills should have an equal impact to core and elite specs. This can actually work, if you don't fail at game design (e.g. dash or mirage cloak).

ANet is pretty inconsistent. If mirage cloak justifies losing a dodge, then dash should too. If anet followed their own nerf logic and balanced overperforming dodges with a reduced number of dodges, then dash daredevils should actually have one dodge, but kept their 1200 range steal and their 6 ini cost on shortbow and a few other things like more damage on autoattacks.

dash has longer range, removes soft cc, give swiftness AND reduces damage taken.IMO it should get reduced swiftness duration, that alongside nerf to 2 dodges could mean reducing INI cost on sb 5.I honestly dont even get why dd has 3 dodges but whatever

No. Still faster than every other class lol.

@Kuma.1503 said:Anet made it clear when they caved into the cries to nerf nades. If it's overperforming on the elite spec, it's overperforming on all specs. shrug

Nades were broken because they forgot to do anything to them when they nerfed eveyrthing across the line by 33%. Somehow we still have specs running people down with raw damage pve like renegade that have nothing to do with good pvp gameplay though. Which shows arenanet doesn't know what they're doing.

@UN Owen.2794 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:Anet made it clear when they caved into the cries to nerf nades. If it's overperforming on the elite spec, it's overperforming on

all

specs.

shrug

The fact that they were untouched is completely irrelevant to the point I'm making. The point I'm making is that if any aspect of a class's core kit overperforms on an Elite, it's warranted to get nerfed. It doesn't matter if it's perfectly balanced on Core. That's simply the way Anet chooses to do things.

Nades are over the top on Holo but fine on Core Engi. Solution: Nerf nades

Ifiltrator's Arrow is over the top when paired with Dash and 3 dodges, but fine on core thief? Solution: Nerf IA.

This change is consistent with Anet's balance philosophy thus far. I don't agree with it, but it is what it is.

@Filip.7463 said:

@Kachros.4751 said:

@Filip.7463 said:

@"Cynz.9437" said:I can somehow buy why DD or even DE could somehow "deserve" mobility shave (then again in the grand scheme of things it is questionable but it is topic for other discussion) HOWEVER there is absolutely no excuse for core thief mobility/resources to be hurt this badly. So my suggestion is, as long as elite spec is

not

equipped the Infiltrator's Arrow costs are reduced in pvp.

DD doesnt have perma TP, even if its not massive the perma swiftness is really good which barely any class can have, adding that onto the rest it made DDs mobility unmatchable, im jus comparing the 2 specs.

sb5 was always broken but the recent change made the skill almost unusable. i think someone a while ago mentioned a range nerf instead, that might help idk.

I agree but i dont think it can be done

When i look to skills nerfs that go throught game modes, like sb pet swap in combat it makes me think that this kinda of adjustment can't be done

@Kuma.1503 said:

@UN Owen.2794 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:Anet made it clear when they caved into the cries to nerf nades. If it's overperforming on the elite spec, it's overperforming on

all

specs.

shrug

nade barrage was broken on core too, on scrapper too.its just that rest of the core kit could not be carried by nade kit alone, but its no excuse to have skill this utterly fucking broken.rangers rapid fire has less dmg then pre-nerf barrage, fuck when you add in entrance + barrage ( all pre nerfed )that alone deals as much damage then entire 3s combos on other classesfor example on ranger maul->WI->swoop has less damage then fucking barrage alone.it was playing with fire, this skill alone made playing light armor classes with less then 18k hp UNPLAYABLEsince you died to 1 fucking skill with almost no cast time.If I remember right my record was getting hit for about 17k dmg by barrage+EE, jolly good, engi focuses someone else, stealths. boom barrage and you are dead from 100%. Core could do the same shit btw.

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:

@UN Owen.2794 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:Anet made it clear when they caved into the cries to nerf nades. If it's overperforming on the elite spec, it's overperforming on

all

specs.

shrug

People blow the damage that nades dealt on core engi way out of proportion. It could hit for huge numbers if the stars aligned, but it had a more difficult time pulling it off because.

1. It doesn't stack might as easily as holo
2. It doesn't stack vuln as easily as holo
3. It doesn't bait out endurance as easily as Holo
4. It can't cast Nade Barrage while under the effects of Lazer's Edge (15% less damage)

All these factors together mean that, yes, while Core Grenadier had the potential to deal insane burst damage, it had to work a hell of a lot harder to pull it off. These skills don't exist in a vacuum. And this is specifically talking about pre-nerf nades. After they got shaved a few times, nades were far from overperforming on core, yet Holo was still terrorizing PvP with them so Anet nerfed them again.

I mean heck, if we're bringing up the state both classes were in immediately after Feb 2020 as examples, core condi thief was terrorizing PvP, utilizing shortbow 5 to get easily into the fights that favored it. And unlike core engineer, it was played frequently and with great success.

I don't see how this change is inconsistent with how Anet has done things thusfar.

Shortbow 5 in general just needs to go back to 5 init.

Right now we're in a meta where Dragonhunters are doing a better job at Thieving than Thieves.

There is a lot wrong there.

DependsNow that the thief is kinda weakened , we see other roamers , that can kill bunkers (shortbow rev)When he was the king , he was whining that he couldn't beat tanks :P

Ah Mister CMC , for an april fool joke, can you make Severshot do 6k physical damage + Guardian F1(when it trigers) to do 2k physical ?I really hate Burning ...thank you for your time

Theif has always been the most mobile class in the game to the point it's been detrimental to the class as it cannot be this mobile and have winning match ups all over. Infiltrators arrow is 5 years too late in it's nerf but this is not how I would have done it.

Take a page from revenant and add small 2-5s cool downs on weapon abilities, reduce the ini cost so you're not ini starved but likewise can't use every skill without thought. If this game has made anything apparent it is that back to back same skill usage has always been a problem when the skills are good, we see this on mesmer, rev, thief and other classes that had reset mechanics.

Mobility on other classes does need to be toned down a bit, when you can use 2 skills and get to the next node in 3s it's a bit much if you also enjoy very good 1v1 capabilites.

@Kachros.4751 said:

@Filip.7463 said:

@Kachros.4751 said:

@Filip.7463 said:

@"Cynz.9437" said:I can somehow buy why DD or even DE could somehow "deserve" mobility shave (then again in the grand scheme of things it is questionable but it is topic for other discussion) HOWEVER there is absolutely no excuse for core thief mobility/resources to be hurt this badly. So my suggestion is, as long as elite spec is

not

equipped the Infiltrator's Arrow costs are reduced in pvp.

Sb5 is like perma tpAlso, nearly all other classes have perma swiftness, except necro.

@Filip.7463 said:

@Kachros.4751 said:

@Filip.7463 said:

@Kachros.4751 said:

@Filip.7463 said:

@"Cynz.9437" said:I can somehow buy why DD or even DE could somehow "deserve" mobility shave (then again in the grand scheme of things it is questionable but it is topic for other discussion) HOWEVER there is absolutely no excuse for core thief mobility/resources to be hurt this badly. So my suggestion is, as long as elite spec is

not

equipped the Infiltrator's Arrow costs are reduced in pvp.

Sure if u call being able to use it twice IF u have full ini (haven't previous used any skills) and at best not more than twice before having to wait for ini regen locking u out of any other skill defensive or offensive permanent access lol.Far different.Also I love how the player base squawks about dash and all the things it does but conveniently leave out the exhaustion effect if a condi is removed and the fact that the main damage trait in the whole line is dependent on dodge use to gain said damage boost which promotes dodging for offensive purposes and is a gbage design for a damage trait for those reasons and is only less gbage due to DD providing 3 dodges.2 secs of reading these forums and anyone could almost choke on the obvious bias poster's have for and against certain classes. I really hope anet stops taking any ideas from the forums regarding balance. Sure there's some decent ideas but in the huge sea of bias I don't have faith that anet would be able to pick em out.