Please don't kill Aurene (spoilers)

So, the story has really had a lot of good people dying. And some people who wasn't on our side yet fought for what they thought was right.Now we have a new elder dragon, of an aspect never seen before, crystal and light. An elder dragon of healing and preservation. One who has the lich magic of Joko and is theoretically immortal. With all that said, it would be easy to jujj up a reason for Aurene to die anyways. And end of dragons is getting closer and closer. With all that said... I really hope we can have a bit of a good ending. That it doesn't become grimdark af. In short, that little dragon, that we guided through her first steps, shared so many experiences with... please. Don't let her die.

Nah she trash. We did the "coming back to life" thing in S4, she has no clear goals as to how to deal with the Elder Dragons despite us going on that journey through PoF and S4 which were all about replacing them, she is too strong (more or less has energies from 3 Elder Dragons , a God and her own nature of abilities), has no impact in the story other than lowering the stakes artificially by "not knowing how to proceed" and only exists for marketing purposes as a mascot (check minis, plushies etc).

She will probably not die given what you said about Joko (another bs thing for ally characters is to be immortal, now an immortal enemy would work better and Joko kinda did that, but then we jump into the rabbit hole of questioning his "immortality" cababilities Types 1, 2 and 5). But a story without Aurene is a better story imo.

She probably wont die, but her involvement in the story has cut off any serious or better stories we could have had - I've long hoped she would be killed off/removed from the story so we can get back on track. The writers have previously stated GW2 is her story, so she is unlikely to be killed off if that makes you feel better

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:But a story without Aurene is a better story imo.

This sums it up perfectly for me

I personally don't want her killed off and don't think they will. However, I think with that said, I really believe EoD will be the last story that involves the Elder Dragons and perhaps Aurene will play the whole "Human God" role where she doesn't interfere in Tyrian relations. I'm really exhausted from these Dragons and would rather have new villains. Preferably ones that are like Scarlet. Give me a villain that's a powerful [insert Profession].

Actually the Elder Dragons are probably one of the best concepts for enemies in the worldbuilding of Guild Wars. The mystery was built upon greatly in the first game, where this threat of the Great Destroyer and the imprending armageddon, were but the tip of the iceberg to an even greater power (Primordus) and that greater power has siblings.

GW2 did good establishing the whole idea of Elder Dragons consuming and recycling magic, but they probably failed at thinking ahead and involve all the dragons in a story without it taking too long or ending up like IBS (2 elder dragons rushed into 2 episodic releases).

But take Aurene out of the story and what do you have? Season 2 becomes pretty pointless without the egg and how do we deal with that? Have the zephyrites carry an artifact in the form of one of Lazarus' aspects. As in an aspect meant to be used to unlock the power of the Bloodstone to seal (or drain depends on the narrative) magic once again and force the dragons back to sleep? We saw that it's possible (Balthazar using Taimi's machine) so this time we have a more useful and believable mean of doing the same thing (the Seers created the Bloodstone for that reason). And what happens when Mordremoth's death affects the Bloodstone? Lazarus' aspects activate and he forms.

I can go on on a total overhaul of the story without Aurene and I would try to cater to all the requests players currently have from the story and never got (Lazarus involvement, Joko having a greater impact, Vlast engaging in the story etc). But it's my stuff on my head so people don't share the same view.

We didn’t really do much of anything with her when she was young. One story step of supposedly bonding with her, then off to kill Balthazar. Waaaaay more time was spent chasing after her egg so the supervillains couldn’t get it and start whatever world ending disaster they felt like. The story spends way to much time chasing supervillain’s and stopping Armageddon, not enough time doing mundane, everyday things. If everything is the apocalypse, the apocalypse doesn’t seem like that big of a deal. It is the contrast between normal life and a crisis that makes a crisis seem like a big deal. With no low key points in the story, the high impact parts seem low key. It’s just one world ending crisis after another, and its boring for the world to be ending...again. There is never any character development. No ebb and flow. Kill her, don’t kill her, what difference does it make?

Problem with that, is that elder dragons bad is a boring status quo. That is the narrative that during most of the games life span was prevalent. Elder dragons are very old and have seen the world through a perspective beyond mortals. That one is on our side and that the motives of the remaining elder dragons are unclear makes them more interesting than simply maintaining the idea of hungry for magic and destructive. This is a game about dragons - it has been for a long time. The closed beta had an event where we fought against Kralkatorrik's minions, and death meant conversion to a minion, with flavor text and all. Very inreresting pvp.But anyways, point being that Aurene is a necessary plot vehicle to expand on the mentality and role of the elder dragons. Perspective.And, side point, I have a soft spot for cool and adorable dragons.

@Cleopatra.4068 said:We didn’t really do much of anything with her when she was young. One story step of supposedly bonding with her, then off to kill Balthazar. Waaaaay more time was spent chasing after her egg so the supervillains couldn’t get it and start whatever world ending disaster they felt like. The story spends way to much time chasing supervillain’s and stopping Armageddon, not enough time doing mundane, everyday things. If everything is the apocalypse, the apocalypse doesn’t seem like that big of a deal. It is the contrast between normal life and a crisis that makes a crisis seem like a big deal. With no low key points in the story, the high impact parts seem low key. It’s just one world ending crisis after another, and its boring for the world to be ending...again. There is never any character development. No ebb and flow. Kill her, don’t kill her, what difference does it make?

Her living or dying is the catalyst for how the world will view elder dragons. I agree that more time could have been spent with her and a little less of world ending crisis, but the story development is that for the first time ever, there is an elder dragon who has the best interests of the mortal races at heart, not out of a selfish reason, but out of benevolence. This is not something anyone was raised to believe, or even consider possible. And even then, whenever she does something people get scared, and think it's because of her champion. That a bond with such a creature could be formed based on the same emotions that the mortal races value so highly means that the way the world view elder dragons is starting to unravel. Would anyone even think it was possible without her as living example? If that example dies, then the world returns to what it used to be - elder dragons bad, war with them forever. That world kind of sucked for everyone. But this is a hope for a positive change. What Aurene's motives are for being passive in the charr civil war and the Jormag situation is not clear yet, likely because that part of the story is not out yet.

It is time to let her go.

We will never be in danger if Aurene is always around us. Even a mortal wound is not a threath anymore.

Kill her maybe is too much, just take her to the Characters Fridge for some time, like Zojja or the Pale Tree. We talk about her, but she is not directly involved in the story.

@vier.1327 said:It is time to let her go.

We will never be in danger if Aurene is always around us. Even a mortal wound is not a threath anymore.

Kill her maybe is too much, just take her to the Characters Fridge for some time, like Zojja or the Pale Tree. We talk about her, but she is not directly involved in the story.

Her mere existance will likely cause problems that could potentially be a threat to even her. The only reason Bangar started a civil war is because he saw a mortal become an elder dragons champion, and thought that what was a bond built on love and trust was a champion bending an elder dragon to his will. It not only sets up the war, but also revals that such a thing could not exist in his mind. Which by proxxy reveals how damaged the entire charr psyche is by eternal war.Aurene is so centralized in the events post-ascension that writing her out now leaves too many threads loose.

Torment will corrupt her as well and when the time comes my sword will be sharp enough to put Aurene out of misery

The expansion is named "end of dragons" so it could end that way.

She probably won't die. The way they set her up, she is already reluctant to fight in any way that will disturb balance in Tyria it seems. They might be setting up for the dragons to take a back seat in Tyria, with new types like Aurene very carefully balancing/sharing their powers to avoid becoming overburdened/taking on torment.

She's also kinda deathless so there's that. If anything puts her down I'm pretty sure she'll be revivable eventually. That's a really big character trait to set up just to toss to "she died/got corrupted".

It is so stupid though isn't it? We got the pieces of the puzzle and Anet decides to get a new puzzle instead.

Another example:

1) Vlast, an established offspring of Glint who doesn't feel connected to his purpose2) What a better way to expand his character by having him interact meaningfully with the cast instead of "it was that meeting in the first glance" type of deal we got3) Translate that into him realizing what life means, what's so important and beautiful about creation and have him deliver his sacrifice with the intent of dying to destroy his grandfather (his core, therefore Kralk)4) Introduce the seers (or at least their practices, as these guys have been the biggest mystery imo since 2012 and not DSD or the largos) and store that released magic in the bloodstone to avoid armageddon

We get this amazing backstory of how ancient races dealt with the Elder Dragons and how they tried to find a solution, we never see any of it, but Anet won't implement any of those past ideas because....???

Or they listen to people who say "BuT I wAnT to DrIve ThE SpeAr iNto ThE dRAgon, Im The Hero", just no, a compelling story isn't one licking the main character all the time. That's why Trahearne (ok he needed adjustments in his char but still worked) is dead.

Is it more compelling to look at a bunch of mortals trying to learn from history and fight this threat, or have a special guy, meant to bond with a supremely powerful creature to end all wrong? I'm not asking some god tier writing, I'm asking for Aurene's removal as soon as possible, so we can have a decent story. Part of what made HoT so epic and amazing was the fact that our forces were in shumbles, our leadeship compromised and our time frame short. Again, the story could be fixed for HoT, but it succeeded in setting up this threat, showing it's impact, establishing a dangerous and high stakes enviroment and establishing the motivation (aside from deaths) for the cast and the characters to unite (see Campaign in Orr), bond despite the hardships and bite through the jungle to face Mordremoth.

They tried to do that with Kralk and it was successful for the most part, but instead of finishing everything in Thunderhead Keep with a twist which we would overcome nonetheless, we needed unnecessary bonding with Kralkatorrik. Who should be caring for himself. Who we have been fighting (his forces) for years, the vigil exist cause of his destruction, Glint died to him before torment appeared within him. Also "boohoohoo Aurene died now we will all die" . NO, wth Anet, we defeated 2 Elder Dragons with no Aurene, how is it believable for us to drop the fight just cause the mascot died (but not rly).

This may come off as a rant, but I'm trying to explain in detail why people find Aurene irritating. It's not her being cute, no, it's her entire concept as a character.

I really doubt Aurene will be killed (or even is killable), but I do see the possibility of her absorbing too much conflicting magic (maybe even as soon as the end of the Saga if Jormag and/or Primordus are killed) in a self sacrificial type of way and becoming tormented so that we have to seek out a cure for her. This could even be what drives us to go to Cantha in EoD.

@"Grand Marshal.4098" said:

They tried to do that with Kralk and it was successful for the most part, but instead of finishing everything in Thunderhead Keep with a twist which we would overcome nonetheless, we needed unnecessary bonding with Kralkatorrik. Who should be caring for himself. Who we have been fighting (his forces) for years, the vigil exist cause of his destruction, Glint died to him before torment appeared within him. Also "boohoohoo Aurene died now we will all die" . NO, wth Anet, we defeated 2 Elder Dragons with no Aurene, how is it believable for us to drop the fight just cause the mascot died (but not rly).

This part I do not get. How is maintaining "Kralk bad and evil" interesting? The entire reason why the revelation that he isn't a blind, evil force of nature is interesting is becaus it fundamentally overturns how the world perceives elder dragons. Yes, the Vigil and many other organizations exists to combat them - and now they are slowly having to re-evaluate their ideas because an elder dragon is on our side, out of benevolent ideals. Vlast would probably not have worked for this role, because he had gone too long without a champion and likely had too much bitterness inside him. Being alive to see his sister would have changed him for the better, but not to the point where he could have worked together with mortals to become an elder dragon. Aurene was molded and born for this event, that's why her bond with her friends and her champion is unbreakable, and it's this connection that she draws on to shoulder her new role.

But, I do agree Vlast was underutilized. He's introduced, then killed off, and only expanded on via memory crystals. They could have done a lot more with him. He could have been a great part of the story, and a morale oomph to get Aurene to gather the courage to face Kralkatorrik.

Also, reason why we were screwed without Aurene was because she was our only way of stopping Kralk in the mists. If the mists is devoured, then it will shatter the balance of reality and do... very bad thing? It's not properly explained, but basically, super dragon ends reality by devouring the foundation is rests on (magic, which is in the mists) and poof goes reality. And regular mortals can't just go into the mists and stop him. Sorry for double post, these forums really need an edit button.

Kill Aurene.Her voice creeps me out.

@Oxstar.7643 said:

@"Grand Marshal.4098" said:

They tried to do that with Kralk and it was successful for the most part, but instead of finishing everything in Thunderhead Keep with a twist which we would overcome nonetheless, we needed unnecessary bonding with Kralkatorrik. Who should be caring for himself. Who we have been fighting (his forces) for years, the vigil exist cause of his destruction, Glint died to him before torment appeared within him. Also "boohoohoo Aurene died now we will all die" . NO, wth Anet, we defeated 2 Elder Dragons with no Aurene, how is it believable for us to drop the fight just cause the mascot died (but not rly).

Ultimately it all comes down to bad storytelling. Aurene herself could have been implemented differently and work in the story I suppose. As for the Kralk part, the story was making it straightforward for the last 3 seasons, 2 expacs and core campaign, that Elder Dragons cannot be reasoned with and destroy cause that's their function in the world. Even now that Jormag tried to form an alliance with us , we knew (or believed) that it would be a temporary thing. And it was.

@Oxstar.7643 said:And, side point, I have a soft spot for cool and adorable dragons.Personally, I have never found her to be cool or adorable. Quite the opposite, really. I'd be glad to see her gone.

Personal preference aside, she is the center of the direction the story is going now, like it or not.

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:

@Oxstar.7643 said:

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:

They tried to do that with Kralk and it was successful for the most part, but instead of finishing everything in Thunderhead Keep with a twist which we would overcome nonetheless, we needed unnecessary bonding with Kralkatorrik. Who should be caring for himself. Who we have been fighting (his forces) for years, the vigil exist cause of his destruction, Glint died to him before torment appeared within him. Also "boohoohoo Aurene died now we will all die" . NO, wth Anet, we defeated 2 Elder Dragons with no Aurene, how is it believable for us to drop the fight just cause the mascot died (but not rly).

You're basically saying what most Tyrians believe. That's not true anymore though. And grappling with that is central to the story. There is now an elder dragon who can be reasoned with and exists to balance and heal rather than destroy. And some day, she may have a child herself that becomes a new elder dragon.

@Oxstar.7643 said:

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:

@Oxstar.7643 said:

@Grand Marshal.4098 said:

They tried to do that with Kralk and it was successful for the most part, but instead of finishing everything in Thunderhead Keep with a twist which we would overcome nonetheless, we needed unnecessary bonding with Kralkatorrik. Who should be caring for himself. Who we have been fighting (his forces) for years, the vigil exist cause of his destruction, Glint died to him before torment appeared within him. Also "boohoohoo Aurene died now we will all die" . NO, wth Anet, we defeated 2 Elder Dragons with no Aurene, how is it believable for us to drop the fight just cause the mascot died (but not rly).

And yet there are still contradictions to that...Kralkatorrik killed his own daughter before Torment entered his consciousness (in the form of Zhaitan, Mordremoth and Balthazar's powers), the ED we are "reasoning" with right now (Jormag), doesn't care about mortals and even his goons say so in the Doric DRM, where it's being hinted that once the encased in ice entities awake, they may or may not be minions to Jormag, a mean to increase their power. Aside from Aurene being raised by us to know of compassion etc, there is no guarantee she will not need huge amounts of energy to sustain herself in the future. She will therefore have to die and maybe get replaced, but she is a special case apparently, unique to all elder dragons, for reasons we don't know. (Glint comes from Kralk, obviously nothing is unique about Aurene's genetics).

As for the whole heal thing, I wonder where that came from. No indication existed that Aurene can "heal". She is a different form of the brand. Classic writing bs that will never be explained. You can make a case about her using Mordremoth's magic, but nothing about it has been stated.

Yes, she is unique. Unique because she was raised by mortals with mortal values, and grown on that bond, and the shared experiences. You can't really lump her in with other ED's because frankly, she is one of a kind so far. Also, iirc the magic dragons consume goes back in a cycle. I'm fairly certain Aurene would not take more than she can give back. Didn't Gorr say at one point in the Asura storyline that the problem with Zhaitan was that he consumed magic at an unstable rate due to simple hunger? You would expect en entity with that much power and influence to do such a thing if all they know is survival. Aurene is raised with mortal values, which makes her uniquely fitted to ushed into a new age where elder dragons maintain balance, which seems to be her goal - maintain the world and mend it when need be. The very fact that a new ED rose proves that elder dragons can come and go, also, Joko kind of confirmed this. The most obvious chain of events seem to be that every other ED will eventually be vanquished or pacified and Aurene leads a new cycle for her kind. Too bad you don't like the character, but it is what it is.

As for the heal thing, dragon magic is not really explained. I can only assume it becomes the power fitted to the dragon itself. Aurene it the daughter of Glint, who valued mortals and sought to help them, not enslave or consume them. Basically, the ideal formed the aspect. Aurene's aspect being that of chiefly healing is likely due to whatever Glint gave her when they had their exchange that we were not privy to. If the question is what the specifics to the process of forming light and the associated aspect of healing is, then we could ask the same for every ED, bloodstones, gods, and so on and so forth.