Necromancer skill lore

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

I'm curious to know if there is lore regarding various necromancer skills/spells. I don't expect clear answers on any of these questions (because a lot of it seems open to interpretation), but perhaps some of the lore community can piece together more info than I can on this subject.

What is a signet exactly? Is it a symbol that a necromancer carries with them, or a symbol they draw?
What is a mark? Is it simply a symbol that the necromancer conjures forth, or do they draw it on the ground?
What does it mean to steal life force? Traditionally, a spell like Life Transfer is Blood Magic (in GW1), but does the necromancer steal the blood of their foe, or something else?
Is a Spiteful Spirit an actual malevolent spirit summoned forth from the Mists?
When a necromancer sacrifices health, do they literally cut themselves with a ritual dagger, as the icons for Blood Ritual and Blood is Power suggest?
Several necromancer spells deal with darkness and shadows. Yet, shadow magic doesn't seem to be a school of its own. Is shadow magic its own thing?
Does Dhuumfire literally invoke the power of Dhuum himself? And could this be considered heracy?
What is a well spell? Is it a dark power invoked from the depths of the earth and brought to the surface by the necromancer?
What is a minion exactly? Is it a spirit inhabiting a body created from nearby remains?
When a necromancer reaps souls, what exactly do they absorb?
What happens when a necromancer uses spectral skills? Do they become a spectre themselves, or do they shift into a spectral realm body and all?
Several necromancer skills imply contact with demons, such as Dark Pact. Are necromancers contacting demons in the Mists when they use these skills?
What are sand shades exactly?

draxynnic.3719

Hey, Malafide! Long time no see!

A lot of these I don't really have the answer for off the top of my head, but I'll give it a go:

• My understanding is that signets are actually a signet ring that the user can activate to achieve an effect. In the ancient days of GW1, all skills were actually empowered by "skill rings", but signets were those that did not require energy input from the user. While I think the idea of all skills being powered by rings has been dropped, I think signets are still, essentially, magical signet rings.
• I don't know for sure, but given that marks can be thrown at a distance, I'd presume it's conjured rather than physically drawn (similar to guardian symbols in that respect).
• I think stealing life force is the equivalent of Soul Reaping in Guild Wars 1 - you're essentially harvesting energy from their soul. Like in GW1, you harvest energy when creatures die, but in GW2, certain skills allow you to harvest energy off the still living as well.
• Extremely unclear. My gut feeling is 'no', but AFAIK there's nothing concrete.
• Also unclear. I'd guess that with skills that specifically mention blood, such as Blood is Power and Enfeebling Blood in GW1, they do, especially if it's shown in the skill image. Other skills involving sacrifice might be sacrificing the necromancer's own life force directly, however, especially skills which passively sacrifice health in small quantities such as Soul Taker.
• Shadow Magic is its own thing - used by thieves and assassins. Necromancers might have effects related to darkness and shadows, but this is distinct from Shadow Magic, just as the fire conjured by guardians is not Fire Magic. (That said, I suspect Shadow Magic might be found in the part of the magical spectrum where necromancer and mesmer approach each other.)
• Given that ArenaNet tried to strip actual invocations of the gods out of every profession in Guild Wars 2 so they'd work for nonhumans, I'd guess not.
• I'd personally guess that wells are still fundamentally similar to how they worked in GW1 - the power comes from exploiting a corpse to generate the desired effect. Unlike in GW1, though, either the necromancer carries enough remains to toss them over to where they want the well to go, or they're able to exploit corpses that are buried beneath the earth.
• I think minions are spiritless - this tends to be the distinguishing factor between minions and "proper" undead such as the Awakened. I think this might be touched on in Ghosts of Ascalon - my copy isn't in easy reach, however.
• Souls have energy. Lots of energy. Consuming an entire soul can sustain a daemonic entity for a long time before the soul finally expires. Soul Reaping seems to be essentially a case of siphoning off a small amount of power from the soul being reaped. This appears to be in small enough quantities that it doesn't appear to cause noticeable harm to the soul, and in some cases it's probably a case of the necromancer collecting energy that was being released anyway.
• Unclear. If I recall correctly, Spectral Walk was originally themed as going for a walk in the spirit world, leaving your body behind, and when it finished you could either return to your body or bring it to your current location, but that might have changed. Broadly speaking, though, I think spectral skills just employ the spectral realm in general, and don't necessarily all function the same way. Spectral Walk, for instance, might involve walking through the spirit world, while Spectral Armour might instead involve wrapping yourself in spirit energy while remaining corporeal.
• Also unclear. It's possible that the skills are named just according to what superstitious non-necromancers think the necromancer is doing. If it does involve contact with supernatural entities, though, I'd probably be more inclined to think 'spirits of the dead', similar to ritualists, over demons. Another possible explanation is that the skills were originally believed to work by invoking demons (or servants of Grenth), but like monk prayers, it was actually the caster producing the effect independently all along.
• According to Akesi Xuni: "(Shades are) An extension of our power, allowing us to affect the near and far, casting spells from both ourselves and our shades. They're versatile, able to protect allies and attack foes." So unless Akesi is just that blase about talking about bound spirits, it seems that they're just magical constructs that serve as a kind of repeater tower for scourge effects.

Sorry there's a lot of 'I don't know, but here's my best guess' in there, but ArenaNet hasn't really been forthcoming on the details of what's actually going on with the use of a skill. It's also at a time of night where I don't really have time to go chasing up sources, so there may be things I've missed - hopefully, if there is, someone will come along and fill in the gap.

Fueki.4753

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:
What is a signet exactly? Is it a symbol that a necromancer carries with them, or a symbol they draw?

Signets are an artifact from GW1's planning phase, in which every skill was supposed to be cast from a ring, with one ring on each finger.
That's also why GW1's skill bar is limited to eight slots, one for each finger (not counting thumbs).

What is a mark? Is it simply a symbol that the necromancer conjures forth, or do they draw it on the ground?

Similar to Guardian Symbols, they are magically carved into the ground.

What does it mean to steal life force? Traditionally, a spell like Life Transfer is Blood Magic (in GW1), but does the necromancer steal the blood of their foe, or something else?

I think this is more spiritual than physical in nature.

Is a Spiteful Spirit an actual malevolent spirit summoned forth from the Mists?

Spiteful Spirit is named after GW1's Spiteful Spirit, which is a Hex Spell from the "Curses" attribute.
Since there are some curses in real life dealing with Spirits, it could indeed imply the use of an actual spirit.

When a necromancer sacrifices health, do they literally cut themselves with a ritual dagger, as the icons for Blood Ritual and Blood is Power suggest?

It is strongly implied that necromancers cut themselves.

Several necromancer spells deal with darkness and shadows. Yet, shadow magic doesn't seem to be a school of its own. Is shadow magic its own thing?

Shadow magic is its own thing. Shadow Steps and Stealth belong to this magic.

Does Dhuumfire literally invoke the power of Dhuum himself? And could this be considered heracy?

This one is probably just imitating his Fire.

What is a well spell? Is it a dark power invoked from the depths of the earth and brought to the surface by the necromancer?
What is a minion exactly? Is it a spirit inhabiting a body created from nearby remains?

Both of these spells, in lore, are about manipulating corpses. This is reflected in them requiring corpses in GW1.
This means, wells are not conjured from the depths of the earth, but from the depths of cadavers.

When a necromancer reaps souls, what exactly do they absorb?

Just like with Stealing Life forces, they probably reap some kind of essence or spiritual residue.

What happens when a necromancer uses spectral skills? Do they become a spectre themselves, or do they shift into a spectral realm body and all?

Spectral skills are about partially conjuring things from other worlds or partially diving into said worlds.

Several necromancer skills imply contact with demons, such as Dark Pact.

Dark Pact doesn't imply anything about Demons.
It's likely just a nod to self mutilation and offering of your own blood like cults often do in pop fiction (I don't know about cults in reality).
In fact the only Necromancer trait that directly mentions Demons is the Scourge trait Demonic Lore. But I think it actually is connected to demons.
Necromancers in GW2 don't generally handle demon things.

What are sand shades exactly?

Sand Shades seem to be artificial spirits made from mixing life force (which in turn is spiritual residue from other beings) and sand.

Eekasqueak.7850

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:
What is a signet exactly? Is it a symbol that a necromancer carries with them, or a symbol they draw?

Signets are an artifact from GW1's planning phase, in which every skill was supposed to be cast from a ring, with one ring on each finger.
That's also why GW1's skill bar is limited to eight slots, one for each finger (not counting thumbs).

What is a mark? Is it simply a symbol that the necromancer conjures forth, or do they draw it on the ground?

Similar to Guardian Symbols, they are magically carved into the ground.

What does it mean to steal life force? Traditionally, a spell like Life Transfer is Blood Magic (in GW1), but does the necromancer steal the blood of their foe, or something else?

I think this is more spiritual than physical in nature.

Is a Spiteful Spirit an actual malevolent spirit summoned forth from the Mists?

Spiteful Spirit is named after GW1's Spiteful Spirit, which is a Hex Spell from the "Curses" attribute.
Since there are some curses in real life dealing with Spirits, it could indeed imply the use of an actual spirit.

When a necromancer sacrifices health, do they literally cut themselves with a ritual dagger, as the icons for Blood Ritual and Blood is Power suggest?

It is strongly implied that necromancers cut themselves.

Several necromancer spells deal with darkness and shadows. Yet, shadow magic doesn't seem to be a school of its own. Is shadow magic its own thing?

Shadow magic is its own thing. Shadow Steps and Stealth belong to this magic.

Does Dhuumfire literally invoke the power of Dhuum himself? And could this be considered heracy?

This one is probably just imitating his Fire.

What is a well spell? Is it a dark power invoked from the depths of the earth and brought to the surface by the necromancer?
What is a minion exactly? Is it a spirit inhabiting a body created from nearby remains?

Both of these spells, in lore, are about manipulating corpses. This is reflected in them requiring corpses in GW1.
This means, wells are not conjured from the depths of the earth, but from the depths of cadavers.

When a necromancer reaps souls, what exactly do they absorb?

Just like with Stealing Life forces, they probably reap some kind of essence or spiritual residue.

What happens when a necromancer uses spectral skills? Do they become a spectre themselves, or do they shift into a spectral realm body and all?

Spectral skills are about partially conjuring things from other worlds or partially diving into said worlds.

Several necromancer skills imply contact with demons, such as Dark Pact.

Dark Pact doesn't imply anything about Demons.
It's likely just a nod to self mutilation and offering of your own blood like cults often do in pop fiction (I don't know about cults in reality).
In fact the only Necromancer trait that directly mentions Demons is the Scourge trait Demonic Lore. But I think it actually is connected to demons.
Necromancers in GW2 don't generally handle demon things.

What are sand shades exactly?

Sand Shades seem to be artificial spirits made from mixing life force (which in turn is spiritual residue from other beings) and sand.

Doesn't scourge tap into the realm of torment? I dunno if your description of sand shades would be quite accurate.

draxynnic.3719

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:
What is a signet exactly? Is it a symbol that a necromancer carries with them, or a symbol they draw?

Signets are an artifact from GW1's planning phase, in which every skill was supposed to be cast from a ring, with one ring on each finger.
That's also why GW1's skill bar is limited to eight slots, one for each finger (not counting thumbs).

What is a mark? Is it simply a symbol that the necromancer conjures forth, or do they draw it on the ground?

Similar to Guardian Symbols, they are magically carved into the ground.

What does it mean to steal life force? Traditionally, a spell like Life Transfer is Blood Magic (in GW1), but does the necromancer steal the blood of their foe, or something else?

I think this is more spiritual than physical in nature.

Is a Spiteful Spirit an actual malevolent spirit summoned forth from the Mists?

Spiteful Spirit is named after GW1's Spiteful Spirit, which is a Hex Spell from the "Curses" attribute.
Since there are some curses in real life dealing with Spirits, it could indeed imply the use of an actual spirit.

When a necromancer sacrifices health, do they literally cut themselves with a ritual dagger, as the icons for Blood Ritual and Blood is Power suggest?

It is strongly implied that necromancers cut themselves.

Several necromancer spells deal with darkness and shadows. Yet, shadow magic doesn't seem to be a school of its own. Is shadow magic its own thing?

Shadow magic is its own thing. Shadow Steps and Stealth belong to this magic.

Does Dhuumfire literally invoke the power of Dhuum himself? And could this be considered heracy?

This one is probably just imitating his Fire.

What is a well spell? Is it a dark power invoked from the depths of the earth and brought to the surface by the necromancer?
What is a minion exactly? Is it a spirit inhabiting a body created from nearby remains?

Both of these spells, in lore, are about manipulating corpses. This is reflected in them requiring corpses in GW1.
This means, wells are not conjured from the depths of the earth, but from the depths of cadavers.

When a necromancer reaps souls, what exactly do they absorb?

Just like with Stealing Life forces, they probably reap some kind of essence or spiritual residue.

What happens when a necromancer uses spectral skills? Do they become a spectre themselves, or do they shift into a spectral realm body and all?

Spectral skills are about partially conjuring things from other worlds or partially diving into said worlds.

Several necromancer skills imply contact with demons, such as Dark Pact.

Dark Pact doesn't imply anything about Demons.
It's likely just a nod to self mutilation and offering of your own blood like cults often do in pop fiction (I don't know about cults in reality).
In fact the only Necromancer trait that directly mentions Demons is the Scourge trait Demonic Lore. But I think it actually is connected to demons.
Necromancers in GW2 don't generally handle demon things.

What are sand shades exactly?

Sand Shades seem to be artificial spirits made from mixing life force (which in turn is spiritual residue from other beings) and sand.

Doesn't scourge tap into the realm of torment? I dunno if your description of sand shades would be quite accurate.

The elite does, appearing to be essentially a necromancer version of Spirit Rift that's specifically creating a rift to the Realm of Torment, but it's unclear whether tapping into the Realm of Torment is common to all scourge abilities or just the big elite skill.

That said, however, it is established that the sands in the vicinity of the Mouth of Torment are imbued with energy from the Realm of Torment, so it's possible that there's your link - using sands that have a residue of power from the Realm of Torment or Abaddon's power is effectively tapping into the Realm of Torment's energy, albeit indirectly. Scourge could well have been an elite spec which could only have arisen in the vicinity of Elona, and might actually need to carry sand from Elona in order to continue functioning elsewhere. But that's just speculation.

Eekasqueak.7850

@draxynnic.3719 said:

@Eekasqueak.7850 said:

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:
What is a signet exactly? Is it a symbol that a necromancer carries with them, or a symbol they draw?

Signets are an artifact from GW1's planning phase, in which every skill was supposed to be cast from a ring, with one ring on each finger.
That's also why GW1's skill bar is limited to eight slots, one for each finger (not counting thumbs).

What is a mark? Is it simply a symbol that the necromancer conjures forth, or do they draw it on the ground?

Similar to Guardian Symbols, they are magically carved into the ground.

What does it mean to steal life force? Traditionally, a spell like Life Transfer is Blood Magic (in GW1), but does the necromancer steal the blood of their foe, or something else?

I think this is more spiritual than physical in nature.

Is a Spiteful Spirit an actual malevolent spirit summoned forth from the Mists?

Spiteful Spirit is named after GW1's Spiteful Spirit, which is a Hex Spell from the "Curses" attribute.
Since there are some curses in real life dealing with Spirits, it could indeed imply the use of an actual spirit.

When a necromancer sacrifices health, do they literally cut themselves with a ritual dagger, as the icons for Blood Ritual and Blood is Power suggest?

It is strongly implied that necromancers cut themselves.

Several necromancer spells deal with darkness and shadows. Yet, shadow magic doesn't seem to be a school of its own. Is shadow magic its own thing?

Shadow magic is its own thing. Shadow Steps and Stealth belong to this magic.

Does Dhuumfire literally invoke the power of Dhuum himself? And could this be considered heracy?

This one is probably just imitating his Fire.

What is a well spell? Is it a dark power invoked from the depths of the earth and brought to the surface by the necromancer?
What is a minion exactly? Is it a spirit inhabiting a body created from nearby remains?

Both of these spells, in lore, are about manipulating corpses. This is reflected in them requiring corpses in GW1.
This means, wells are not conjured from the depths of the earth, but from the depths of cadavers.

When a necromancer reaps souls, what exactly do they absorb?

Just like with Stealing Life forces, they probably reap some kind of essence or spiritual residue.

What happens when a necromancer uses spectral skills? Do they become a spectre themselves, or do they shift into a spectral realm body and all?

Spectral skills are about partially conjuring things from other worlds or partially diving into said worlds.

Several necromancer skills imply contact with demons, such as Dark Pact.

Dark Pact doesn't imply anything about Demons.
It's likely just a nod to self mutilation and offering of your own blood like cults often do in pop fiction (I don't know about cults in reality).
In fact the only Necromancer trait that directly mentions Demons is the Scourge trait Demonic Lore. But I think it actually is connected to demons.
Necromancers in GW2 don't generally handle demon things.

What are sand shades exactly?

Sand Shades seem to be artificial spirits made from mixing life force (which in turn is spiritual residue from other beings) and sand.

Doesn't scourge tap into the realm of torment? I dunno if your description of sand shades would be quite accurate.

The elite does, appearing to be essentially a necromancer version of Spirit Rift that's specifically creating a rift to the Realm of Torment, but it's unclear whether tapping into the Realm of Torment is common to all scourge abilities or just the big elite skill.

That said, however, it is established that the sands in the vicinity of the Mouth of Torment are imbued with energy from the Realm of Torment, so it's possible that there's your link - using sands that have a residue of power from the Realm of Torment or Abaddon's power is effectively tapping into the Realm of Torment's energy, albeit indirectly. Scourge could well have been an elite spec which could only have arisen in the vicinity of Elona, and might actually need to carry sand from Elona in order to continue functioning elsewhere. But that's just speculation.

Ahh yeah I guess if we're able to bring a Jackal with us some magic sand wouldn't be unfeasible.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Thanks for the fantastic answers everyone! I've been wondering about a lot of this for ages.

NorthernRedStar.3054

Question(s): why do necromancers utilize Dhuumfire if they don't revere him as a deity? Is Grenth incapable of producing a similar conjuration? Is it related to each of their respective roles / affinities in their godhoods?

Are necromancers actually even dirtier than thieves?

Konig Des Todes.2086

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:

In order:

@draxynnic.3719 said:

• My understanding is that signets are actually a signet ring that the user can activate to achieve an effect. In the ancient days of GW1, all skills were actually empowered by "skill rings", but signets were those that did not require energy input from the user. While I think the idea of all skills being powered by rings has been dropped, I think signets are still, essentially, magical signet rings.

To clarify, signet rings are in lore old ways to use skills. Now, signets can be on anything (or nearly so). This is brought up somewhat by Braham in Season 4 Episode 3 when the Commander and Braham find a signet ring for dispelling illusions. Signets are, in effect, magical symbols carved into a piece of equipment.

• A mark seems to just be a magical trap visible with a glowing seal of sorts. We even had one, kinda, in GW1.
• Life force by all appearances seems to be very literal - a magical force of living. All professions are capable of tapping into this, but necromancers are capable of stealing and storing others and using this storage to power spells (when other professions do it, they can strengthen their spell in power or duration, but it comes at a physical cost to their own well being - even death if too much is used). Mechanically, it's the successor to soul reaping, but in lore it's probably more that soul reaping got retconned into this. Life Transfer is both life stealing and life force stealing.
• I'm going to say no, and that it's just a fancily named technique which changed drastically over the years. Unlike Shadow Fiend, it doesn't show any visuals of summoning something.
• When you use dagger skill 2, there is an animation that plays where the PC literally stabs their hand. So I'd say yes, they choose to use their own blood to power the spell.
• As drax said, shadow magic is indeed a thing and is used by thieves and assassins. I'm not so sure to be quick to say necromancers definitely don't use shadow magic, but the evidence does suggest they don't. Especially if we go back to the schools of magic - assassins and mesmers are the closest professions in terms of what their magic does (moreso in GW2), which would imply shadow magic is a part of the school of denial, whereas necromancers are aggression. Zhaitan is the Elder Dragon of Death and Shadow, indicating its domains over those two kinds of magic (and more no doubt).
• I'm going to say no, and suggest that it's a naming based on the fire being necrotic based rather than traditional fire. With Dhuum being the "evil god of death", something that is harsh and violent like fire would be more appropriately tied to Dhuum - moreso since non-human necromancers wouldn't attribute something good to Grenth (especially charr).
• I've always felt that Wells and Wards are effectively the same magic of different schools. Which is to say that it's just ground-targeting and not coming from the underground. Which is probably why Chronomancers got wells.
• In both games they seem to be pretty much mindless, which would imply no spirit - simply powered and manipualted by the necromancer. Of course there would be those which do have spirits, but then they become proper undead and not mere "necrominions".
• By all indication, life force. Which is also what demons go after when they consume souls. This said, your good guy necromancer won't go reaping and consuming souls (even if a skill name implies they do); because that's evil.
• I think it's more of a mimikry of spectres rather than actual spectral stuff.
• I'm going to say no, especially with Dark Pact. Dark Pact is a skill that makes one cut into their own hand to perform a deed, which is reminsicent of the idea of a traditional fantasy "pact with a demon" where you need to sign in blood. I think that skill in particular is nothing more than a homage to the concept, and nothing close to actually doing so. Though there are cases of deals with demons, they don't seem to follow traditional "contract binding rules" and is more deals with words (a lot more dangerous because backstab is easier). As such, deals with demons seem to be an uncommon thing, and the skills you refer are commonly used.
• Pretty much what it says on the tin, and what Drax quoted.

Konig Des Todes.2086

@NorthernRedStar.3054 said:
Question(s): why do necromancers utilize Dhuumfire if they don't revere him as a deity? Is Grenth incapable of producing a similar conjuration? Is it related to each of their respective roles / affinities in their godhoods?

Are necromancers actually even dirtier than thieves?

As I alluded to in above, I'm guessing Dhuum is attributed because he's evil, and fire - especially one made out of death magic - would be a volatile, all-consuming thing. It's something you're more attribute to the evil god of death, even if you don't worship the pantheon he was formerly of, rather than the good god of death (especially if you don't worship that pantheon) simply by attribution of, well, what many in modern times would call edginess.

"It's an evil death fire I'm using, so I'm naming it after the evil god of death we all hate!"

Amanda Whitemoon.6173

personally i think Dhuumfire is more comming from his gw1 skill Judgment of Dhuum, wich also dealth fire damage, Dhuum has some connection with fire

Mad Queen Malafide.7512

Thanks Konig!

Avatar Rage.4369

@Fueki.4753 said:

@Mad Queen Malafide.7512 said:
What is a well spell? Is it a dark power invoked from the depths of the earth and brought to the surface by the necromancer?
What is a minion exactly? Is it a spirit inhabiting a body created from nearby remains?

Both of these spells, in lore, are about manipulating corpses. This is reflected in them requiring corpses in GW1.
This means, wells are not conjured from the depths of the earth, but from the depths of cadavers.

Just to add to this. In some early GW1 Necromancer quests they talk about how minions are created out of bodies without touching the souls. Manipulating souls is considered to be taboo by necromancers but it's not unknown for some necromancers to manipulate the soul as well as the body. The Lich, Palawa Joko and Verata are examples of those that manipulate both.

draxynnic.3719

Did Verata actually do both? I thought what got him outcast was that he was killing people in order to have bodies to experiment on, not for the experiments themselves. That's why there are so many skills named after him - the magic itself isn't forbidden, just the means he took to discover it.

Avatar Rage.4369

@draxynnic.3719 said:
Did Verata actually do both? I thought what got him outcast was that he was killing people in order to have bodies to experiment on, not for the experiments themselves. That's why there are so many skills named after him - the magic itself isn't forbidden, just the means he took to discover it.

I may be misremembering tbh. But he did the necro-no nos. Which involves bringing back souls, doing murder experiments, etc.